Episode #28 Summary: Demystifying Methylene Blue with Dr. Scott Schur
Podcast Information:
- Title: The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
- Host: Dylan Gemelli
- Guest: Dr. Scott Schur
- Release Date: May 20, 2025
- Description: This episode delves deep into the world of methylene blue, debunking prevalent myths, exploring its mechanisms, benefits for mitochondrial and athletic performance, proper dosing protocols, and quality control measures.
1. Introduction [00:20 - 02:24]
Dylan Gemelli welcomes back Dr. Scott Schur for a second in-depth discussion on methylene blue. Highlighting Dr. Schur's extensive credentials as a board-certified internal medicine physician specializing in health optimization and hyperbaric oxygen therapy, Dylan emphasizes Dr. Schur’s expertise in methylene blue.
Dylan Gemelli [00:20]: "He's well known for being a methylene blue expert and we are going to dig deep today on that."
2. Methylene Blue's Rising Popularity and "Blue Brains" Myth [02:24 - 05:13]
Dr. Scott Schur attributes the surge in methylene blue’s popularity to high-profile mentions, particularly when the U.S. Health Secretary was seen taking it publicly. He discusses the compound's clinical applications and how its recognition has expanded beyond niche circles.
Dr. Scott Schur [02:24]: "It's definitely having its moment... when we use methylene blue... people are seeing it for the first time outside of a smaller, niche audience."
He also touches upon the mixed feelings surrounding its trendiness, emphasizing the importance of understanding its legitimate benefits rather than succumbing to hype.
3. Debunking Common Methylene Blue Myths [53:33 - 84:51]
a. "Blue Brains" Myth [53:33 - 57:50]
Dr. Schur clarifies the misconception that methylene blue turns the brain blue. He explains that cases where brains appeared blue were due to excessive intravenous doses administered in life-threatening situations, not typical therapeutic use.
Dr. Scott Schur [53:39]: "If you're taking low doses of methylene blue, your brain is not going to turn blue."
b. Methylene Blue Only Increases Serotonin [57:50 - 60:40]
Addressing claims that methylene blue’s primary benefit is through serotonin elevation, Dr. Schur refutes this by highlighting its multifaceted role in mitochondrial enhancement and its function as a reversible MAOI.
Dr. Scott Schur [59:11]: "Methylene blue also works as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, preventing the breakdown of norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin."
c. Only Those with Mitochondrial Disorders Should Use Methylene Blue [60:40 - 65:45]
Dr. Schur counters the notion that methylene blue is exclusive to individuals with mitochondrial disorders. He cites that approximately 94% of the U.S. population experiences some degree of mitochondrial dysfunction, making methylene blue beneficial for a vast majority.
Dr. Scott Schur [62:06]: "There are very few people who fall in this category of optimized mitochondria... most people can benefit from it due to regular mitochondrial stress."
4. Mechanism of Action and Benefits [11:05 - 15:54]
Dr. Schur provides a comprehensive overview of methylene blue’s functions:
- Mitochondrial Optimization: Acts as a redox cycler, donating electrons to the electron transport chain and compensating for mitochondrial dysfunction.
- Antioxidant Properties: Functions similarly to antioxidants by scavenging free radicals.
- Energy Production: Enhances ATP synthesis, crucial for cellular energy.
Dr. Scott Schur [11:05]: "It's a mitochondrial enhancer, it's anti-infective, it's anti inflammatory and it's a redox cycler overall."
He emphasizes that methylene blue is not derived from nature but is a synthetic compound with historical significance as the first FDA-registered drug in 1897.
5. Quality Control and Product Forms [31:25 - 43:21]
Dr. Schur highlights the challenges in ensuring quality when sourcing methylene blue. He warns against unreliable liquid forms due to inconsistent dosing and potential contamination with heavy metals.
Dr. Scott Schur [34:29]: "Most of the products that we tested on the market did not meet their label claim, especially if they were liquids."
He advocates for troche (lozenge) forms, like Troscriptions’ Trochees, which offer precise dosing and higher purity through rigorous third-party testing.
Dr. Scott Schur [34:29]: "It's easy to break up into small parts... you can figure out exactly what you need and then titrate your dose over time."
6. Proper Dosing Protocols [44:37 - 51:03]
Dr. Schur outlines a structured approach to methylene blue dosing based on individual needs:
- Mitochondrial Optimization:
- Start: 4 mg (one and a quarter of a troche) for 3-5 days.
- Increase: Gradually by 4 mg every 3-5 days until desired effects are felt.
- Typical Effective Range: 8-16 mg for most individuals.
Dylan Gemelli [44:48]: "Those lower doses go a long way... a little bit can go a long way."
- Acute Use (Infections, Trauma):
- Dosage: 1-2 mg per kilogram (e.g., 150 mg for a 75 kg person) for 3-5 days.
- Monitoring: Higher doses may require intermittent use to prevent buildup and toxicity.
Dr. Schur emphasizes the importance of cycling methylene blue to avoid tolerance and potential side effects, especially at higher doses.
7. Athletic Performance Enhancements [16:51 - 26:22]
Endurance Benefits:
-
Increased Aerobic Capacity: Allows athletes to sustain higher heart rates longer, enhancing endurance.
Dr. Scott Schur [20:37]: "He can keep his heart rate up higher for another 20 minutes compared to what he typically can."
-
VO2 Max Improvement: Combining hypoxic training with methylene blue has shown to increase VO2 Max by 5-10 points.
Strength and Recovery:
-
Faster Recovery: Athletes report quicker recovery times, enabling more intense and frequent training sessions.
Dr. Scott Schur [23:46]: "He can recover at a higher heart rate and then maintain his aerobic and anaerobic training."
8. Sleep and GABA Systems [68:07 - 86:14]
Dr. Schur transitions to discussing the critical role of sleep and the GABAergic system in overall health.
-
GABA Deficiency: Linked to anxiety, stress, depression, and insomnia. Factors contributing include stress, poor diet, nutrient deficiencies, and leaky gut.
Dr. Scott Schur [71:55]: "GABA is our most important neurotransmitter. Helps relax the nervous system, calm brain firing."
-
Sleep Optimization:
- Techniques: Meditation, breathwork, reducing screen time before bed, and maintaining a consistent sleep schedule.
- Supplements: Troz® (comprehensive sleep formula) and Trocom® (for anxiety and calmness) are recommended for supporting the GABA system without causing dependence.
Dr. Scott Schur [74:10]: "Trozy is our comprehensive sleep formula... it's very comprehensive in looking at all stages of sleep."
He emphasizes that while GABA supplements alone are ineffective due to the blood-brain barrier, combined formulations like Troscriptions’ products can effectively support sleep and relaxation.
9. Synergistic Use with Other Supplements [69:03 - 70:35]
Dr. Schur acknowledges the potential for stacking methylene blue with other mitochondrial support supplements, such as NAD+ boosters and mitochondrial peptides like MOTC or SS31. However, he advises that such combinations should be part of a comprehensive approach including diet, lifestyle, and other optimizations.
Dr. Scott Schur [69:03]: "You have to be thinking... support the mitochondria in ways that's going to help them be as resilient and more self-perpetuating in their function and optimization as possible."
10. Final Thoughts and Recommendations [86:14 - End]
Concluding the episode, Dr. Schur reiterates the importance of quality and proper dosing in using methylene blue. He encourages listeners to consult with healthcare professionals when considering methylene blue supplementation and to prioritize comprehensive health optimization practices alongside supplementation.
Dr. Scott Schur [86:14]: "We're seeing people can benefit with any level of mitochondrial dysfunction... but it can still benefit."
Dylan Gemelli underscores the value of factual, experience-based discussions in contrast to misleading information prevalent in some sectors.
Key Takeaways:
- Methylene Blue is a powerful synthetic compound with multifaceted benefits, primarily in mitochondrial optimization and athletic performance enhancement.
- Dosage varies based on individual needs, with typical ranges between 4-16 mg for daily optimization and higher doses for acute conditions under medical supervision.
- Quality Control is paramount; troche forms with rigorous testing are recommended over unreliable liquid forms.
- Debunked Myths:
- Methylene blue does not turn the brain blue at therapeutic doses.
- Its benefits extend beyond serotonin elevation.
- It is beneficial for a broad population suffering from varying degrees of mitochondrial dysfunction.
- Sleep and GABA Systems are crucial for overall health, with comprehensive support programs like Troscriptions' Troz® and Trocom® offering effective solutions.
Notable Quotes:
- Dylan Gemelli [00:20]: "He's well known for being a methylene blue expert and we are going to dig deep today on that."
- Dr. Scott Schur [16:51]: "Mitochondrial optimization... usually between 4 and 16 milligrams for the most part."
- Dr. Scott Schur [53:56]: "Methylene blue is not turning your brain blue. It's only concentrating the mitochondria and then it's out of your system."
- Dr. Scott Schur [71:55]: "GABA is our most important neurotransmitter. Helps relax the nervous system, calm brain firing."
Follow Dr. Scott Schur:
- Instagram: @rscottscher
- Website: Troscriptions
- Nonprofit Training: HomeHope.org
For more insightful discussions on health optimization, biohacking, and performance enhancement, stay tuned to The Dylan Gemelli Podcast.