← The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
Episode 34 Featuring Clark Bartram, the FITTEST 61 year old on the planet! A MASTERCLASS in wellness obtainment! Overcoming myths in Fitness, TRT USE and MISUSE, picking the RIGHT supplements, NUTRITION, FAITH DRIVEN. the CBX System and more!
01:21:58
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:18]
B
Everybody. Welcome back to the Dylan Gemelli Podcast. So you guys always know, I always say how blessed I am to have on amazing guests and people that I get to meet and talk to, but I am super jacked today to talk to my guest. We hit it off right away. This guy speaks my language in every possible way. So I am really excited to bring to you my guest today. I'm going to give a quick intro because we got a lot to get into and I don't want to waste any time. He is the developer of the CBX system and he is an Issa master trainer. He's been on 130 Fitness publications, probably more by now. He is the man. I am going to get deep into him with all sorts of different topics and things. So, my friends, this is Clark Bartram. Welcome, Clark. It's great to see you, bro.
- [01:07]
A
What's happening, brother? So if. If someone wanted to cut this up and take sound bites, you know, that whole thing, I'm going to get deep into him. That didn't come off too well, man. So we got to be careful. You know, we. We were in alignment here, even to the point where we popped on, we had the same fricking sleeveless hoodie. I. Many people have black sleeveless hoodies like this in the row, but me and.
- [01:29]
B
You, I love it, man. I love it, dude, I. I swear to you, I have been looking forward to this ever since we talked. And so we got a lot to get into, man. And I just want to say off the jump, I. I always talk to everybody beforehand just to get to know him. But, like, you are, you and me align so well on so many beliefs and things, you know, because, you know, when you meet somebody new, there's always going to be, okay, this is cool. I like this person. But, man, I just enjoyed talking to you thoroughly. So this is going to be even more fun for me today. So I want to get every bit of info I can out of you today.
- [02:04]
A
Right on, man.
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B
So let's just talk a little bit about your background first before we get into anything else. I like you have your own CBX system, which we're going to talk about and get into. But how did you start? Like, what was the younger Clark like? What kind of got you to this level that you're at now?
- [02:21]
A
Yeah, I give two answers to that. There's. There's the spiritual answer. That is, this is what I was created to do. Without a doubt in my mind, I know for a fact that me sitting here in this moment with you right now is what God had preordained for me on October 2nd, the day before I was born. He's like, you're going to hit the ground running and you're going to end up in 2025 on this podcast talking about all the stuff you've learned throughout the years. So I know for a fact that's part of it. And then the other part is I'm a bit of an anomaly at 61, looking the way I look, kind of standing out in the crowd. And that gives me a great opportunity to use that attention to share a message. And the message just gets broader and broader as I go through life and learn more, experience more and go through more. Right. So that's the business part of it I saw, you know, you find the need, fill the need and close the deal. I found a need. There's a lot of out of shape, over 50 year old guys in the world. I'm filling the need with the CBX Clark Bartram Systems and we're closing the deal right now. We're going to get people to sign up on my program by the time they're done with watching this because they'll see I'm the real deal. They'll see that I'm a guy that can definitely help them get to where they want to go.
- [03:41]
B
I love it, man. I love, Dude, I love that you brought up spiritual right off the jump. I, I make no secret about my standing there and I wouldn't be where I am without that. So I know that's not for everybody, but when, when it's for you, we're glad to talk about it. And I really, I love the fact that you brought that up because neither one of us would be here without God's help and work getting us here. And I always give that grace no matter who I'm talking to, no matter what show. And if you don't like it, kick me off. Right. So, um, I love that. Well, you mentioned the, the system that you developed and I, I'm curious about that. I've looked into it a little bit. But why don't you tell everybody what that system is, who's it for, and why you develop it.
- [04:26]
A
Yeah. So this is the system in a nutshell right here. You can see these different icons. And the icons are Mindset, Meals, Movement, community and integrity is the last one. It used to be supplementation, but we changed it to integrity. And what I teach the men that come and join my program, there are men over the age of 40. That's our ideal client is a man over 40 who's been extremely successful in life, who has everything, the car, the money, probably the second or third wife and everything but the body, but the abs, but what I got, you know, they, they want that, they see me online and, and they watch and they watch and they watch and they finally say okay, this guy's not going anywhere. His message isn't changing and I like what he says. So when they enter into the program we have a very specific onboarding process in which we download all the information we need about them and then we get blood work and we get all the data that we need in order to help them in those five principles. And those five principles are literally the cornerstone of what we teach. Because Dylan, if you became one of my guys in the, it's called the Maximized Man Elite program is the name of the program under the CBX umbrella, I would have you message me every morning giving me a breakdown of those five principles on a scale of 1 to 10. And 5 is where you're at now, 7 is where we want to get you to 7 or 8 because there's literally no 10. We can always get better. So every morning I would get a message from you at 7:00am and it just, all I need is five numbers and then I can manage you very easily, very efficiently and you can manage yourself very easily and very efficiently. If we see a foreign mindset, I'm instantly going to message you and say bro, what's up? What are you doing? Why are you at a 4? And then you're going to tell on yourself. Well, I watched the news yesterday, then I got in an argument with somebody online and I'm just going to correct you right then. Don't turn on the news tomorrow, it's not going to do you any good. So we get the mindset piece in order so whatever of those principles is out of line and under a 7 we get you right on back on track right away. And it's, it's personal, one on one. It's not wasting time because these guys that I deal with don't have time to waste. They're running multi million billion dollar corporations. In some situations I have some pretty high level guys so I, I've understand very, very efficiently how to handle the situation when it comes to me because virtually everybody's the same, everyone's the same with the same excuses, the same life, regardless of how much money they have, it doesn't matter, they're all the same.
- [07:11]
B
That's crazy. I love the fact that you are so hands on. You see so many of these people and they have these programs and all of this nonsense and they disappear or they give somebody, everybody the same generic thing and just move on. And you never hear from them once a week or once a month. And so you are, is this all you? That's really hands on. Do you have people that work for you? How does that work?
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A
It started is all me and it's evolved into, I think I have probably 10 team members now, three coaches, one part time, two full time coaches, they've all graduated the system or done something similar to this on their own and they're super high quality humans. That's the number one and most important thing to me is that you actually care about people. This is not a money play for me. I, I do okay. I don't even pay myself out of my business. I don't, I, I, I've not taken a paycheck from cbx. I can't tell you how long. My wife just asked me the other day, why aren't you paying yourself? It's, it's not about money for me. It's really about using what I was created to do to fulfill a calling and a purpose. Because when I lay my head down at night on my pillow, regardless of how I might come off online to some people, you have to be polarizing. If I'm polarizing and people don't get me, I don't care. Because when I lay my head down and I know that I was a servant leader and I messaged those guys and I called them out and I was honest with them and I gave them more in service than they paid me in money. I'm, I'm great because I know I'm doing what my dad taught me, what my dad taught me. When I used to ride around with my dad when I was a kid, he was a cash register salesman for NCR back in the day. I can still smell the tape from the cash registers. Walked into a little convenience store, we had to change some of that tape in one of those things. He said, hold on, wait for me, I'm going to go in there. And he came out and he said, you know what son? It doesn't matter what, what that guy believes in there. If I like him, if he doesn't like me, he's paying me for a service and I need to outperform that payment in my service. So I go in there with the right attitude, the right energy. And he said, you understand me boy? And I said, yes sir. And that has stuck with me my entire life. And that's how I run my business. I treat my team members the same way. I hold them to an accountability standard. And we are a service business, and we pride ourselves on providing a service that outperforms the payment.
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B
I love it.
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A
Not cheap. It's not cheap, no.
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B
And. And you get what you pay for. And I always tell people that. The people that complain or, oh, he's selling this, or he's hawking this, or everybody's selling something. You're working for somebody that's selling something. If you work at the grocery store, they're selling something. It doesn't matter. So people have to make a living. But what you just said is the key. I have multitudes of contracts. I sign with different brands and they send me a thing, and it'll say three stories, do this and that, and I always do six, or I do seven, or I do triple frames. That way they're getting way more than they pay for. They're going to come back to me for more, and everybody wins because it doesn't hurt me to do a little bit of extra. It doesn't hurt me at all. It takes me another 20 minutes, you know, to. To take the time to write it down and film it. So I love that attitude.
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A
And.
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B
And that's probably. Well, that's probably a big reason why you're so successful. There's other facets to that as well. So my assumption is you developed this program and correct me if I'm wrong, by a lifestyle that you've lived or that your dad or somebody taught you, is that sound correct? That this is something?
- [10:51]
A
Again, if I use the spiritual aspect of it. I knew early on I was always an active kid, athletic, growing up, joined the Marine corps at age 17. So physical prowess has always been something that has been aligned with me. There's never been a point in my life where I wasn't a guy that was running, jumping, playing, fighting, whatever it was. And that just transitioned into a physique that represented that level of activity and that level of athleticism and just being engaged in life. And it was early on that people started to recognize me. Someone asked me Today on a TikTok Live, what did you do before social media? I said, I've always been in social media. My social media was the magazines. I've always used my brand, which is me, Clark Bartram, to sell something. And I love it when people troll me for selling things. It's like, it blows my mind to think that people have this attitude towards Someone who gets out there and works.
- [11:53]
B
I know, working every day.
- [11:54]
A
Why would you be map at me, man? But it, it just transitioned. So I saw these other brands like EAS back in the 90s. They made millions off of me. Millions of off of me. And then whatever other company like you is buying our nil name, image and likeness. And at some point I thought, wait a minute, I need to be doing this for myself, right? Continue to give away my ability to earn because it was easy. And I still, that's why I don't pay myself because I still get these brand deals that make me all the money I need to survive or not even survive, do well in life. So I'm able to build this thing out and put all the money back into the infrastructure so when it's time to scale it, it won't implode and it'll be ready to go. So it's just been its evolution. Every day, every week, every month of my life, I'm evolving into something greater. And I love what you said about over delivering with your content. When companies engage me and probably the same with you, they're like, well how much are we going to get for $10,000 a month? I said I can't answer that question. No, other than you're going to get more than you ask me for. If I feel the urge, I'm going to jump on live and start talking about the prostate product or I'm going to do something more than the six posts that I'm required to do, right? Is it try and tether me down and, and handcuff me to a certain thing. I can't be me. Just let me be me. Let me be me and I promise you you're going to be happy. And, and it always works out.
- [13:32]
B
100 and I'll say this because my I do, I'm a fitness guy, I mean through and through. But my background's business and people that understand and know you, we hire Clark and we say we're going to give you five, ten grand a month to do X amount. If you're looking for to make 20 grand off a couple posts and you don't get it and you're never going to get it. They use what you do forever. They make money off of it forever. And your name continues to go out there and the bigger you get, the bigger they get. So the companies that do that and understand what a real ROI is and how to really handle that, they know. But see all these WebMD business guys that have never ran a business in Their life that, that want to make comments about people, they don't get it. And for somebody like you, you believe in your product, you live your product. That's why you push your product. Now, the people that are hawking stuff, there's a difference. And you and I both know that. And that's why we don't operate that way. So once again, something we align on thoroughly. And I love it. Let me ask you this, because I, I went through getting a certification and nasm, but you, you've done a lot. You're very credentialed. Why don't you talk a little bit? Because there's a lot of people that aspire to be trainers and don't really know what it takes to go into it. What's the difference between a place like you went. Because you know, now there's a lot of cookie cutter things. You can take a test online and get certified. Talk about what it really takes to be a real trainer, because that is something people ask a lot.
- [15:00]
A
Yeah, I just got that message today. Someone reached out to me and said, hey, I'm ready to start my training business. I want to pick your brain. How many times?
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B
Yeah.
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A
So the first thing is being a product of the product. Right. You have to first and foremost live this lifestyle because you could have all of the book knowledge in the world, but if you're not a walking example of what someone could become with their genetic predisposition, then to me, you're. You're just someone who's doing a job and you're not really into it for the right reason.
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B
Right.
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A
I think the next thing is actually really caring about getting people healthy. Not jacked and not ripped and all that sort of stuff, but getting them healthy. And then on top of that, the certification part, and I think this is really what you were asking, needs to be practical. Knowing every muscle in the body isn't important. There are people that know way more than I know as far as the book knowledge is concerned. But as far as the application in the gym, and then taking that gym application and applying it to where it matters in real life, that's what matters. So I liked Issa because it was that it wasn't an easy test to take, and it wasn't something that you did in a weekend. It was something that you needed to study for, for a long time. But it wasn't like you were studying to be a doctor. You were being a trainer. You were being someone that was going to teach someone how to lift weights, to be strong, to live in the real world. And that's really what matters to me. Because at the end of the day, we're all athletes. Every single person on this planet is an athlete, whether they want to ascribe that title to themselves or not. But we are. We have to be athletic to move throughout this world. So we train people to be strong in any environment, be strong in awkward movements, be able to fall down and not get hurt, be able to jump, run and play when you're 61 and, and not peak out in life. I don't feel like I've peaked yet, Dylan. I feel like I'm. I'm still heading up that roller coaster, man. Like, when. When am I gonna tip over the edge? I don't know.
- [17:10]
B
I love it and I love what you brought up because it's very important to have book knowledge. I will never discount that. But it's more important to have boots on the ground and have real. I care about the people that you have real knowledge of clients. And you've seen it, and you've seen it over and over and you deal with it. Hands on a book can only tell you so much. But real world experience really tells all. And that is where I always lean to, towards most of my info when it comes to assessments and body reactions, etc, because that's how you learn. Because everybody's different. You know that. And you know that's how you learn methodologies. Did it take you a long time to come up with this system? Was it difficult for you, like kind of talk about how that got developed? I'm curious.
- [17:55]
A
It got developed through an evolutionary process of me, like I'd mentioned earlier, working for these companies in sitting back and observing. I'm a very observant guy. I like to watch.
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B
Yeah.
- [18:06]
A
So the company that had the biggest impact on Me was a YouTube channel called Sixpack Shortcuts. I don't know if you remember Mike Chang y one of. So Mike Chang's company, Sixpack Short Shortcuts. Him, Henry and Dan Rose, three guys in an apartment in Austin, Texas, got Mike Chang on YouTube right when the algorithm was changing. So they blew up and hit like 4 million followers very quickly because the timing was just right. So they built this company and they launched these different brands and then they launched supplements under these brands. Then they bought in, brought in sales guys, and then they had a production team. So by the time I got there, they were very established. They found out about me through a buddy of mine, John Benson, and I ended up flying out. Every month. I'd fly to Austin Texas and go shoot content for them. And I was very new to the whole content world. I didn't know what a lot of the. The vernacular was like, okay, this is going to be an organic, and then this one's going to be that, and this one's going to, you know, it's just flying at me like a fire hose of information. But I just showed up, read the script or did whatever exercise they needed me to do, answered questions on a YouTube channel, but watched this company just absolutely kill it every single day. From one side was production. The other side was a bunch of college athletes in there taking kratom and, and selling. Selling supplements. And I would walk through, oh, Clark's right here, right now. He'll help you. And it was just energy and it was business, and it would hit the gong, and it was so much fun. And I thought to myself, I want to do this right here, exactly like this someday. But these are the areas that I would change to make it more me. So I went through my whole process with them and ended up on my own. And I launched the supplement called Nano Test. And I had a business partner. Didn't work out. I had to shut that down. Unwind a business. And being in business, you know, it takes a long time to do that. And there was a lot of money involved. And I ended up going into massive debt. My wife didn't even know it. If she hears me right now, she. I don't even know if she knows it. I had pay all this money on a credit card. And my CFO was like, I don't know how you're going to get out of debt. What are you going to do next? And then me and my business partner, Danny, he said, I think we should launch a coaching program and get out of the supplement space. And I really wanted a supplement. It was hard for me to transition because my ego, something about it, like, I wanted a supplement with Clark Bartram on it and. But he convinced me that that was the way to go. And we launched it, and we've been growing it for the past five years now. And it's been a lot of blood, sweat and tears. But the actual system, the. The five principles came one day when they were interviewing me for Train magazine. It's my most recent cover that I was on. Let me. Let me grab it right here for you so you can take a look. But yeah, it was right here, this magazine.
- [21:06]
B
Nice.
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A
And I was in my driveway and they were interviewing me. And the guy asked me, and this was right, pretty much as we were starting this coaching business. He said, what do, what do you, do you have like pillars or. And I didn't have anything yet. And then as he interviewed me, just like this, I said, well, mindset is the biggest one. And then he's like, okay, well everyone thinks nutrition and, and exercise. What's more important, nutrition or exercise? Said neither. Mindset is key. So I established that one. And then Beals is next movement. I said community is a big one because we've developed this great online community. And then supplementation at the time was one. But he came out with this little graph that looks super cool. It's in here. Like this literally was how it was born. And then I took that thing right here, this was like the original this. And I took that and we turned that into the five lifestyle principles of the Maximize man elite program. And it's literally the cornerstone, the foundation to the point where some guys are, have even joked about getting a tattoo of it on their arm because that's how much they bought in to the system, you know. And as an athlete, any athlete has to buy into the coaching. They have to buy into the program. You don't buy in, you're never going to get the championship. And that's really what we go back to every single time. How are you guys doing, doing on the five principles? So all my coaches report to me every Saturday we meet and I go over the check ins that they have with their guys and we're very hands on. And to your point earlier, I am 100% involved every single day in all ways, even if I'm not working with the guy one on one. So if you were one of my coaches clients and they said, well, Dylan's not filling in his checkout sheet on Fridays because we just have a simple form where we know what we need to do for you this week. And if you're not filling in that form, they'll call me. Hey, give Dylan a call. I'll call you up. Dylan, bro, come on, you, you know you need to fill out this form. Help me help you, right? Okay, bro, I'll do it. And then they're, they're blown away. Clark called me. Oh my God. Clark called me. So it's just really neat for me to see because I sit back on how did all this happen? How am I here in life? How did this thing get built from when I was in massive debt to no longer being that way? And it's just showing up every single day. You know this man, it's just showing up every Single day. I met with my team today. They're not my employees, they're my team members. I by side, I love it. Everyone's is equally as important. I don't bug them. I don't micromanage anyone. I hired you, I brought you on the team because I thought you could perform the job. Go perform the job. Help these guys get in shape, period. Be the best at it. They are, man. That's.
- [24:08]
B
That's the kind of guy most people would want to work for. The accountable people that can be accountable. But yes, that's, that's perfect. How, how long have you been doing this then? The whole like system layout, I mean, how long has it been a business? And what's your, what's your idea? Like, do you want to just do this till you can't do it anymore or. I mean, what, what, what do you think in long term with it? Because it sounds like it's so effective in helping so many people.
- [24:35]
A
I'll start there. And we're backwards. People always ask me, what do you do? Are you retired? I have two personal training clients here and one of them jokes with me all the time is like, oh, you're retired? I live like I am because I've set myself up in such a way that I don't need to be in the weeds on the day to day operation of my business. Because I brought on a guy that I trust implicitly with what we're doing here and I let him run the business. Even to the point where he tells me, clark, you need to be more, you need to hold accounts coaches more accountable. He told me. And I said, you're right. This kid's 25 years old. Oh, he's 25. It. But that's how much I trust him. Yeah. Like I said, when I put someone in a place, so I'll do this, I'll ride it till the freaking wheels fall off. Because as long as I stay in shape and what I was telling him today, my two jobs are to be visible in the world and to be what we refer to as a maximized man. Live my life with integrity and then have my coaches want to kill for me because they respect me so much. And they do. And they love me because they watch me. They watch me struggle in my marriage and still show up every single day and do what a man does. They watch me stay in shape. They watch me go through a cancer diagnosis and not change my energy or my attitude. They watch and they're like, I, that's my dude. And, and I Swear to you, my coaches and even the guys in my program, if I was walking down the street and someone, a troll on TikTok that I talked trash, you saw me and wanted to fight me, they'd say, step aside, step aside. You, you want to mess with him, you got to come through all of us first.
- [26:25]
B
I love it, dude. Everything you're saying resonates with me so much, but it's like, I'm 43, so obviously I'm younger, but I still was raised in a certain era and my dad had the same sort of mentality and it's that old school mentality of how we were raised. And he's just like, everything matters. Your word is everything. Like, it doesn't. Just doesn't operate that way anymore and it sucks. You know, there are people, though, when you find them, you kind of want to grasp onto them that, that are of that mentality and that ilk. And I just, I keep smiling when you're talking because it's like, man, this resonates with me in every sort of way and I love it. And I, I know everybody's different and things have changed and times have changed, but I hope that people see and hear what you're doing works and there's a reason for it. Now, I, I want your opinion on this. I always tell people, I'm going to tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. And I remember my college basketball coach telling us, if I don't get on your ass, I don't care about you, you don't matter. And it's a problem. And I find that one of the struggles I personally have, and I want your thought on this, is how things have changed to where there's no accountability anymore. Everybody's got kind of a built in crutch. I'm not going to get into politics or anything of the sort, but I will say that because of that type of thing, it's like, oh, it's because it's a woman, or oh, because of this or oh, because of that. It's something built in. When it's really comes down to nobody looks at that, you're just inadequate at what you're doing, or you need to be fixed or told and have some constructive criticism. And, and instead of whining about it, never fixing it, listen, because somebody cares to help you and go fix it. I mean, do you agree with where I'm going with that and, and do you struggle with that? Do you see it? How do you handle it?
- [28:11]
A
I don't struggle with being honest with people at all. And I come in hot. I come in real. I come in honest. And I always tell my coaches, you're. You're not going to be able to get away with speaking to these men. How I speak to these men. Don't try and be me in these situations, but understand that I've earned the respect of these men. And they want to hear this because I'm not a yes man. These guys, by the time they come to me, like I said, they're established, they've made lots and lots of money. And when I hit them with something like, how can you be the CEO of a multi million dollar business and not be the CEO of your own body, bro, I don't get it. What am I missing here? And then they're like, oh, wow. And there have been so many times where I've sat right here in this office at that desk and had conversations with these very successful men that were really honest. That had nothing to do with fitness at all. It was about life. It was about the fact that they finally admitted they've been drinking too much on the road and doing things that eroded the integrity piece, which when that piece goes away, then this desire to look any kind of way goes away too, because you're covering up with eating and you're covering it up with drinking and staying out too late doing all sorts of stuff. And. And I never talk about the treadmill or tilapia or anything with these guys. I'm just talking about real life stuff that they have watched me for so long and saw the consistency and the, the bravado and the polarizing attitude that they're like, I, I trust this dude. The amount of times that I've heard that from these guys and the amount of times the guys have said, do people actually really just write a check for this much the first time they get on the phone with you guys? Because I've watched Clark for so long and I see the consistency. And I think what really resonates with these guys and gives me the ability to speak that way is the fact that I'm so transparent. I tell everything about my life online. I tell everything. And wow, you're. Wow, you really talk about you're struggling in your marriage right now and you want to give up and quit it, but you're not, you're going to try a little bit harder or whatever. And they like that stuff, man.
- [30:18]
B
Dude, I will always trust a person that's honest, that admits when they're wrong, that tells about everything they went through because nobody's perfect. I. I'm not going to. It isn't about me, but I tell the whole. I went to prison and had to start my life over at 30 years old, and I am not ashamed to talk about it. And it shaped my life. And I tell everybody the same damn story. And I was in my mom's basement 13 years ago, and I didn't get to where I am now by crying about it or blaming everybody else. I took accountability and just whatever. And people respect you for it. And that's why people respect you, because you're honest about everything. And that's, I mean, one of the many reasons why I respect you so much. I want to ask a couple more questions about what you guys do there with. Let's start with the blood panels that you talked about. So you, you give a full assessment and kind of give an outlook to your clients. Like, whoa, we need to take a step back and look at if they got liver problems or low testosterone or whatever the case, because I'm, I do hormone optimization, so I'm deep into panels. So I'm curious as to what you guys kind of do assess. And then when you find problems, what do you, what do you do about them?
- [31:28]
A
Yeah, well, I referred years ago. I, I'm. I learned years ago, when you don't know something, you refer out.
- [31:35]
B
Right, Right.
- [31:35]
A
When you immediately say that, I don't know, but I want to refer you to someone who does. So I'm not a blood guy, but I know people who are. And I vetted out multiple companies to finally get to the company that I'm working with. And you know from doing it yourself, that the standard of care practice in our western medicine, they're going to look at seven or eight markers and fight you on most of them.
- [32:02]
B
Right.
- [32:02]
A
And say, oh, insurance ain't going to cover it. You're not old enough for this one. And they're in. Even when they do get those seven or eight markers, they're not going to give you an explanation to help you understand that if a liver enzyme is elevated, it's not always a bad thing. It could have been a reaction to something or PSA is another one that a lot of guys don't even know about. But we look at over 80 markers, and in those markers, we have them sit down with a quiet, qualified physician who is going to go through those markers, the ones that matter, and explain the other ones enough so they understand what's going on. And then probably spend about two hours. I've I've gotten so much feedback from guys that join my program to say, wow, Tom was amazing. I can't believe how much detail he gave me and how he made me feel so good. I'll give you a. An example that's very close to home. My daughter called me a while ago, very nervous, and she's very, very focused on her health. And she was very scared about some stuff that was going on in her blood, and I could sense it in her. Instead of me getting scared, I said, time out. Let's put a pause here. I'm gonna get you with my guys and have them explain it to you. So she got on the phone with the people that we work with at Algo, and she got off the phone and said, man, I feel so much better, because her doctor made her feel like she was, like, getting ready to die or something. It wasn't good. And this guy said, no, no, that's happening because of this, and that happens because of that, and if you do this, it's going to be okay. And she did those things, and it all evened out and worked out fine. We. We get so afraid the minute we see something because we see all this misinformation online. Cholesterol is a big one now, so, you know, it. It's. We really need the data is ultimately what we're searching for. Yeah. Because I'm not going to tell a guy, get on the treadmill longer, because again, by the time he gets to me, he's done everything for the most part. So if I tell them, do another half an hour on the treadmill and cut your calories down another 500 calories, I'm not doing them any good. But when we get the data one from the onboarding form that they fill out, and to your point earlier, I've seen hundreds and hundreds of these onboarding forms, and I see similarities in all men. So I know. I know. Like, I look. Oh, I know. Like, it's just like that. I know I've done it so much. And then with the blood, we put the data that we get from the written information and their lifestyle, then we get the data from the blood, we combine that, and we get them with the right coach based upon the energy that we see from them. Because I know he ain't resonating with Coach Rob. Coach Rob. That's Brooklyn Bobby. He's too in your face. This guy needs a little bit softer approach. We're going to give him with Coach Perry, and he's going to be cool. So there's A lot of thought that goes into this, even to the point where if he's not vibing with Coach Perry, we're going to move him over to Coach Chris. And then it's like, oh, man. Yeah. I mean, we're great. And that's happened multiple times. I've even had guys that it wasn't working out, and I put them to somebody else. And my ego doesn't get bruised because it ain't about me. It's about getting this man what he came to get. And it's in the blood.
- [35:30]
B
I love it. And that's what you said. Like, every lab has a different reference range now, and they're all over the place. And a doctor will look at it like a general practitioner, and you could be like, right on the edge of what's already out of whack, and they'll tell you you're okay and you're really not. And they don't look for, just for instance, someone that has low free testosterone. Well, let's put them on trt. Well, how about we try to figure out why it's low first? Because it doesn't necessarily mean they need it. I'm very pro TRT if you need it, but I always try to find a way to keep you off of it first. Just like with everything else, my assumption is that you probably do the same. And that's where I was leading into your thoughts on trt, because obviously you're working with men at an age where levels will start to decline. But. And. And everything that I've ever done, they don't necessarily have to. You can change lifestyles. You can look at different methods to keep testosterone at least at a healthy range. Now, some people, they're just predisposed to it. You can't get around it. There's always an outlier. But do you. Do you encourage people first to try to fix it? And what's your thoughts on TRT in general?
- [36:41]
A
You. You know, you just opened up Pandora's box here with that face.
- [36:44]
B
I know.
- [36:46]
A
So I could talk to a month on this. Let me start. I'm not against it at all.
- [36:53]
B
Yeah.
- [36:54]
A
Against the abuse of it. I'm against guys jumping to it immediately. I'm against the thought that it's some miracle that's going to help someone look like me instantly. I'm against the thought that because your buddy got results, you immediately think it's going to work for you. So I refer to it as lifestyle intervention. Lifestyle intervention is necessary regardless of. Of whether or not you're on trt. To answer the question, I'm not on trt. I will not ever get on TRT until I need to. And when I do, I'm going to align myself with a brand. Being a businessman that is going to pay me a lot of money because I've, I've been swimming upstream for so long, and when I finally, if I ever do decide to go on it, then I'm gonna get paid. I'm just going to put that out there right now. So with that being said, I believe it's great if used the right way, but I don't think people are using it the right way right now. I just don't. No, this, this acronym TRT is being abused and I think it should be switched to tot, Testosterone Optimization Therapy as opposed to replacement, because we're trying to optimize people, not replace a hormone. We just need a little bump here and there. Remember back in the cocaine days? Just give me a little bump, you know? And it's like, hey, that, that was it. You didn't need a rail to begin with, man. Well, it's, yeah, man. I get real frustrated with this because that is people's instant go to, Instant go to thinking somehow that it's automatically going to change a guy who's 50 pounds overweight, not focused on the gym and all that sort of stuff to look like me or you. Yeah, it's, we don't look like we do because of anything other than consistency. And, and I won't even say hard work. I don't work hard in the gym. I'm just consistent. You ask anyone in this house, anyone that shows me or knows me, they're going to say, yeah, this dude's been doing this for as long as I've known him, he's never stopped. £5 8, £185 with a couple abs. Do you need TRT to do that? If you think the answer is yes, you're a weak, you're a weak. I'm just telling you right now.
- [39:20]
B
You know, and, and I'm sure you get this. People will tell you, oh, you have to be on trt. You can't look like you do. I'm sure you get that constantly. I, I, I don't even need to ask you. It's a guarantee. And I'll tell you why. I know. Just, I, when I started doing YouTube in 2011, I was training professional bodybuilders and I was discussing steroids and peptides and sarms, and I was trying to tell people to not use Them, but educate them on what they were, how they worked and, and, etc. And I can't tell you the battles that I've had for the past decade and thankfully I'm out of that space now. But with everybody wanting to be on it, everybody thinking it's the magic here, everybody assuming everybody's on it, and, and guys in their 20s and 30s thinking they need to be on it, not understanding what happens when you actually go on it, you know, and I'm sure you have run into this constantly and I'll keep it short, but like you said, if somebody's got a, a lower free testosterone, well, it could because your sex hormone binding globulin's high. So we fixed that, that could free it up and boom, you're fixed. Or instead of just jumping on TRT and that' example of a million. The point is, is just because your numbers are low doesn't mean anything. That, that means one thing we got to figure out and find out how do we fix this? Okay? And it's not everybody just wants to treat, treat, treat, treat, treat. No, let's try to fix first, right? And, and get to the core of the problem. So do you get guys often your type of clients that if you run a panel where they just want to jump on it right away and do you have to have this conversation A lot of.
- [40:56]
A
No. They come to me wanting. I get so many guys, Dylan, that come to me that want to get off because they got like, dude, I want to get off of this stuff. It's, it's not working anymore. It's used to, here's the reality. You're going to get a little spike for about four months, then you're going to level back off again. You're going to be the exact same way you were. You're going to feel the same way because our body's adaptive. We will adapt to that new feeling. You're going to feel the same relative shittiness that you felt before if you don't have this lifestyle intervention now. We can raise people's total testosterone up a couple hundred points through lifestyle intervention. But to your point, having low numbers isn't always a problem, but that's the problem in the world today. I watch these guys on TikTok and it drives me absolutely batshit crazy to have them go every. Oh, yeah, get a consultation, get a consultation, get a consultation. You're 20 and you're 300, bro. You're 23. You need to get. I'm like, no, no, dude. And that this concept of every man after the age of 30 is testosterone is going to go down by 1% every single year. Well, if we're establishing that in someone's mind and that's their expectation, then that's going to become their reality. When I try and set a different expectation and I am literally swimming upstream against everybody else saying something that nobody else is saying with the exception of you. Thank God. That's why we connect, because I'm like, oh, man, this dude can argue. Bob Trt. But no, you still, you know, give it to guys when they need it. But you're a responsible one. I think every practitioner, whether it's a doctor or a clinic, should require that. When a guy walks in and sits down, he does the assessment, he does the blood work, and then he says, okay, here's what I want to do. I'm going to send you home for three months and try this. Still make money. You know, you're in a bit. Try this. I'm going to hook you up with the trainer. I'm going to hook up with a nutritional program. I'm going to hook you up with an accountability coach, and we're going to see what we can do naturally. Because when and if we do start you in three months, man, bro, you're going to be primed and ready to go, and you're going to feel so much better on so much less because you won't need it because you're not carrying an extra 50 pounds. These guys don't do this. They say, yeah, you're going to 50 pounds going to melt off. Your dick's going to be so hard, you ain't going to be able to fit through the shoulder and all this sort of stuff, man. And it's just. It's. It's misinformation. It's flat out lying. It's. It's flat out profiting. And not everyone's like that. Again, not everyone's like that. And I'm not against it at all, but I'm. I'm for it when it's positioned properly and it's just not being done that way right now. It's just. They're everywhere. It's the new gold rush. It really is, man.
- [43:50]
B
Well, there's. There's two problems there, Clark. One is the bros that have half a brain cell that have taken every steroid under the sun, encouraging it and telling everybody they need it, and if they don't do it, they're never going to get big. Or that. That. That. That's the only way to Go about it. And then, then the other problem is what you just brought up. The influencers on Tick Tock that are in their 20s that say, oh, my, my blood work looks fine. It's fine. Well, you don't know about what's coming the next 10, 15 years down the road. And you want to get upset with the people that are telling you when me, I've had thousands and thousands of clients over the years, and you know what? 90% of them come to me. The problem, Clark? Well, we used steroids when we were too younger. We got on TRT too young, and we're a mess. But before we're 40, we never were able to have kids. We have problems in our marriage because we can't function properly. And I feel like all day I can't lose weight, I can't do this, I can't do that. And it's like, man, you want me to fix like 20 years of mess that after 20 years of mess has really accumulated like 60 years of mess when you put it on a plate. So, yeah, I mean, from what I've seen and what I've endured and felt, because, I mean, I'm a human. You're a human. You feel bad for these people. Even though you know they made a mistake, you feel bad, especially when it's. You can see how bad it's hurt them. And it's troubling, man, and. And I try to do the best I can, just like you do, but you can only get around to so many people. They. They want to fight you and argue, and you just have to move on. It's like the disciples had to kick the dirt off and move on. The people that didn't want to listen, right? So, I mean, you try. And the people that listen, they win. And the people that don't, I mean, what are you gonna do? So can't save the world. I. I do wonder. Before I get into how you take care of yourself, I want to talk about diet. First polarizing topic. But what I feel is probably the most important part here, aside from mindset, like you brought up. And we'll leave mindset out. We'll just talk about, like the first functional aspect, I think diet. When I break something down. I'm curious your thoughts on this. I break it down into diet training and supplements, peds, whatever you want to call it. Okay. My personal teaching is 70 to 75. Even 80% of this is around your diet, 15 on your training, and the rest, if there's any left over, basic supplements, whatever pdg Whatever you want to. To do it. What's your thought on that?
- [46:17]
A
Yeah, if, if so, I'll use my buddy Michael Hearn, for example. Now everyone's corn. I guarantee you're on something and you're lying. No, I, I've known that guy for 30 something years and I've never once seen him miss a meal. Not yet. One time. Ever. Ever. Never ever. I've seen him be fed when it was time to eat because he was driving a car. Bleep bleep. Alarm goes off. Mona feeding him in the car. That's. And he will always say, I will never miss a meal. I'll miss a workout, but I'll never miss a meal. So we need to understand the importance of the nutrients that we're putting in our body.
- [46:58]
B
Yes.
- [46:58]
A
And if we can get that, then missing a meal is not that big of a deal. The problem is we double down. If someone misses a workout, they're like, ah, screw it, I'll start again on Monday. And then they double down by eating like crap. That should be when you eat even better.
- [47:11]
B
That's right.
- [47:12]
A
You really want to be a fit human and have low body fat percentage and be optimized naturally. The nutrition is, is the single most important thing that you should.
- [47:24]
B
I'm just so glad you, I, I knew you were going to say that. I'm so glad you said that. Okay, so let's talk about that then. Because it. Ben, that is a polarizing topic because everybody's got their own methodology and beliefs. And then all the stuff like you brought up cholesterol, which I covered my face because I talk about that all the time. It's like a passion of mine. We'll leave that alone for now. I'm curious though, on your perspective when it comes to diet, like with fats, carbs and protein, order of importance, things that we've been lied about or that are blown out of proportion because you know, there's carbohydrates especially are about as polarizing as you can get. I mean, people will fight you over that topic. And so I'm curious, like, what's your thought process on balance there or importance things that we're missing or lacking?
- [48:13]
A
Yeah, I, I've been using this phrase a lot lately because I've been posting a lot of meal videos on my Instagram and to your point, that's what people want. I've watched my Instagram just hockey stick when I started posting these really simple meals. And eating good, first of all, doesn't need to be expensive and it doesn't need to be bland. It, it can be great. What I just made phenomenal, dude, wait till you see what I post. But prioritize protein is what I've been saying. Prioritize protein. I was even make a shirt today that said I was going to have someone design it. Just prioritize protein if that's how we build our plate. If you prioritize protein, chicken, fish, steak, pork, if you're a pork person, whatever, eggs. I, I go eggs first. I put the eggs at the top of the. Yeah. So prioritize your protein and then build around it so that if the next thing you add to it is just vegetables, fruits and vegetables. People that tell me don't eat fruit, it's like, ah.
- [49:22]
B
Such nonsense.
- [49:24]
A
Now we're saying fruit is bad. What's wrong? Oh, it's sugar. It's like, come on people. So anyway, if you do that, like one of the posts that went over the best was a big beautiful steak that I made. I had some avocado, some blueberries. I even had spinach on there. Oxalates. Oh, oxalates. So it was all on there and I ate it all and it was great. That thing's got millions of views now. If you build a meal like that. And that was my, my pitch to people online. It was 60 days from summer. I said, you eat like this every day until summer, your body will absolutely change. I don't care who you are, your body will absolutely change. And the amount of messages I'm getting, brother, are incredible. Clark, man, I, I can't believe I lost £23 already or whatever. And it's not a massive change. It's not how you prioritize your plate.
- [50:23]
B
So I'm going to share something with you real quick. I've been a nutritionist. I started studying nutrition at 11. I had an eating disorder and I, so I got into it. That's what put me into it. I've modeled, I've been in front of the. I'm not going to get into all that. Just understand I've had an issue of my own and I've had this fear of fats forever. And I mean forever. And I'm eating, I'm. I work out like an animal. I burn on paper over 4, 000 a day between your normal burn and then my working out my cardio and I'm under eating like you can't believe. I'm talking 16, 700 to 1700 a day of like nothing but vegetables and yogurt and egg whites, fat Free yogurt and oatmeal. Like the, the worst diet ever. No fats, peanut butter, that's it. And I'm telling you man, when I changed it was in October when I had this whole awakening on everything I'm doing. I up my calories over a thousand. My fat grams are up to 125, 130. My protein's like 275. My carbs are my, I'm not a big carb. I don't, you know, I'm, I, I'm nothing against, but I'm about a hundred. I have cut down. I've haven't looked like this since in my like, you know, my prime. Early 30s was my, probably my prime and I haven't felt as good or moved this good or anything after those switches. I'm big. My body eats up fat and you know, like you said, prioritize the protein. First fruits are excellent. Obviously you don't want to eat two pounds of them, but you don't want to do the overeat anything. I think that there's so many people confused that don't understand you could eat like you just described and we were taught that that would kill you or it was so bad for you. And what you just said, what you ate makes you look like what you do for a reason. And I can attest to it because I'm doing the same damn thing. I have a half a pound of grass fed beef, elk, bison, every day, huge amounts of salmon, I mean avocados, 150 grams a day, right? And whole eggs. And that lifestyle that you just talked about, dude, has been the biggest, best change I've ever made. And you know, like the grass fed butter and I'm mad at myself for not enjoying meals for so long and, and you know, depriving of all this. But I'm so glad you said that man, because it's like people have this misunderstanding and they were, and we were brainwashed for years. I mean, I don't know man, it seems like it's been the best change I've ever made. Is that kind of, have you kind of lived that way forever? That kind of meal and the way that you're eating, is that something you've always done and followed? And do you find it hard to be consistent?
- [53:03]
A
I don't find it hard to be consistent at all. And I, I look at my nutritional outlook as Mediterranean. I think if we eat Mediterranean, I'm like you, I'm, I'm a low carb guy, starchy Carbs. Yeah, and only when I'm getting ready for something like I just shot a magazine cover. So I, I will increase my cardio and cut back my carbs because I know my body and how it responds. So I just prioritize my protein. I eat all those vegetables, the avocados and that, and my body changes and I feel great. I don't have joint pain, nothing. You know, I, I can full range of motion. My body still works because I'm getting at the nutrients from food. Jack lalanne was one of my mentors, and he would always tell me, clark, if man made it, don't eat it. So he was referring to single ingredient whole food. That was it. It was just a whole food diet. If we could eat stuff that had a face or came from the earth, we're going to be golden. And fruit comes from the earth, vegetables come from the earth. Animals have faces. There you go.
- [54:07]
B
I love it, man. I love it. I love it. I love it. So with your clients, then, I'm. I'm assuming diet's a big part of what you teach and go over with them, correct?
- [54:19]
A
Yes. You know, we're not nutritionists, and we can't really prescribe a meal plan necessarily. So we make recommendations just to stay above board with it all. And the recommendations that we give them are very similar to that, but we also take everything into account. What do you like? What do you don't like? Do you have any allergies? That's a big thing. We develop allergies as we go through life. We don't realize it. Maybe one day you wake up and an egg suddenly makes you have a histamine reaction. Why? Your body's changing every single day. So we have to be aware of that. And that's part of what the blood work tells us, and that's part of what constantly checking in tells us. Just making sure that we know how these guys are responding to whatever it is that we're suggesting they. They follow.
- [55:05]
B
What is your opinion on counting calories?
- [55:09]
A
I don't do it. I don't count calories. Reps, sets, macros, micros, none of it. I don't write anything down. For me, some people like that. And thank God we live in a world of AI because all we have to do today to do anything is take a picture of our food. And these AI apps will tell you the calories and all of that. So back when I was doing it, I still have journals from nutritionists that I went to when I was preparing for things back in early 90s, and you would have to write it all down. And I would take that journal to this girl, Kathy Sassen, at Gold's Gym, Venice. She would open that thing up and there are notes. She would draw little sushi notes on it. But that was how I did it back in the day, and it's probably why I would never do it today. But there is evidence, I think there was a study at Harvard that has shown that if you do journal like that, you can increase your chances of success. Just because you're. You're just holding yourself accountable is all you're doing.
- [56:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. And as we get dialed in, it's one thing, but I think it's good for people, especially they're trying to learn something new just to get disciplined. But, yeah, I, I see a lot of people that just say, well, we, you know, we don't worry about how many calories we take in. And I'm leading you to another question, because this is for the calorie bros. What is your opinion on two things? Calories in versus calories out, and all calories are equal. Because I mean that all calories are equal thing pisses me off to the highest, highest, highest extent, man. Like, I, I don't really. I stay pretty even keeled, but that one pisses me off. You're gonna tell me that if you've got a nice lean chicken breast in one hand of 300 calories and a nice greasy burger or pint of ice cream for 300 calories in the other, and those are equal calories, I have a huge issue with that. So you tell me your thoughts on those concepts.
- [57:07]
A
I have a huge issue with that, too. I don't even like, I, I don't like getting in those conversations with people because they're just not willing to listen. I just go back to nutrients. I look at things and like, I was looking at a beat the other day, and I'm thinking, God, the amount of nutrients that are packed in this thing has got to be insane. I can't imagine if I went, was able to see with, like, God's eyes and look into all of the nutrients that are in a bright red beet and somebody tell me that a donut with the same amount of calories. Come on, man. Dude, I just should make everyone stop and think. If you have any common sense at all in your thing, a apple, an orange, a mango, any of that shit, and a donut, a croissant, and it's 300 calories. And this is 300 calories. These are equal.
- [58:07]
B
I mean, it's the most puzzling thing I've ever heard. And I say, fine. If you're just looking at weight and you think, calories in, calories out, fine, show me the blood panel. Then go take the blood panel. Show me the person that's eating all these oils and crap and this processed stuff and everything else, and the guy that's eating clean and compare the blood panels and then talk to me. That's when we can talk. But until then, I don't. I don't want to hear it because it's just ridiculous to even say or think. And I think when you, you do what I in. And you and I just did, compare the things in each hand and then ask yourself the question, does that sound rational or not? And I think you get the answer.
- [58:45]
A
Let me do the calories in, calories out, one. I didn't.
- [58:47]
B
Yeah, do that, please.
- [58:48]
A
I use it on certain people. So if I get someone. Let me back up a second. We run in different circles. We're fit people. We're around fit people. We have different conversations when you're already in shape, when you're trying to dial yourself in and get the last bottom of the lab to come in or whatever. But when you're talking to someone who's 50, 75, 100 pounds overweight, and I'm trying to help them grasp some knowledge to get moving in a direction that is better than the current one they're going in. So I'll use the calories in, calories out example for them to help them understand how to manage their lifestyle a little bit better. So I give. If I give them the thing of. All right, if I want to have you at a calorie deficit so you lose weight, all I'm going to do is ask you to not eat this croissant and walk a little bit more on the treadmill. That will get us at a thousand calorie deficit. You got 500 here and 500 there. So that's kind of the calories in, calories out principle. I won't run with that forever. I'll run with that until I can get them locked in.
- [60:02]
B
Yeah.
- [60:02]
A
And ready for the next level. Because we hear this saying a lot. There's levels to this stuff. Not everyone's ready for the level we're at with the information. If we overwhelm them with science. Like, I'm not a science guy. I hate science trainers. I, I think that's. I just don't like that stuff. But I'm just a Practical guy.
- [60:21]
B
I love it. Okay, so, you know, I, I think everybody gets a good feel and stance on where you're at with, with beliefs and everything. I am curious though, when it comes to supplements, are there any that you have that you think we may need or we should prioritize? I mean, I, I'm, I, I'm fond of creatine. I think that's a good, proven supplement and I can, I can really show a lot of value that it provides of all ages. Menopausal women, you know, even teenagers, really. But are there any that you find that even you may use? And I'm talking just basic vitamins or anything you think are important. It doesn't have to be some crazy thing that people are taking for enhancement. But are there any in your wheelhouse or, and, and then aside from you personally, are there any that you just think that everybody should be taking?
- [61:11]
A
Yeah. Creatine is one that I definitely agree with. I've been around since the beginning of creatine back in the day, in the 80s. Yeah, I mean, when we were really first starting to talk about it, we were loading it, we were taking it with Alka Seltzer and grape juice and yeah, all of these sorts of things. And I've been through the whole CRE alkaline thing. I, I know the guys that have made that. I saw some stuff in the background with creatine for years. But with respect to supplementation, I'll be really, really, really honest. I'm, I'm not that consistent with it. I, I just started yesterday. Creatine I use because I noticed a difference when I take creatine. Oh yeah, pump like yesterday, my bicep workout like, damn, what's going on? I'm like, oh, I started on creatine again, but I take a multivitamin that has been custom blended for me based upon my blood work. I launched a program with Russell Brunson and a guy by the name of Doug Grant, and we launched it a while back. Didn't really work. Gary Breck is kind of doing the same thing. We did it before he did. Where you get the blood work and then you get supplements based upon any, any deficits that they see in the blood because the one size fits all model doesn't work. I mean, how could I go to Costco and buy men over 40 supplements and have it work the same? Maybe you got more vitamin D or more free testosterone. So why, why would it make sense for you to get more. We need to understand what's going on in the blood and then custom blend a supplement to give you certain things to fill those nutrient gaps or not overwhelm you with more of something you don't need because we see it, oh, you got a ton of vitamin D. Don't add a vitamin D in the Dylan supplements. The bitch has got a ton of it. All right, we don't need no more. But if you go to the store and just buy some, you're getting more vitamin D and you don't need it, right? So that's my baseline. That's what I use every day. And then from there I do the creatine there. There's a lot of people go back and forth on collagen. I like collagen, I take collagen. I like my hair, I like my skin. I see benefits. I, I got good skin. And I don't even say for, for a 61 year old guy. I just, you know, it's part of what I attribute to the reason I look the way I do. So. And then I take a natural testosterone booster, which is my own that I have, and I wanna. Oh, a prostate, prostate health product that I take because of what I went.
- [63:44]
B
Through real quick on the natural testosterone booster. And I only asked because I designed supplements for many years and I've designed several in the past. And you got these people that say they don't work and all of this, bodybuilders mainly guys that use steroids that of course they're not going to work for you and you're blasting everything under the sun. What are some of the good, good, helpful boosting herbs that somebody could use? So I'm, I'm curious what your thoughts are on those since you're using one.
- [64:11]
A
So someone was asking me today, hey, Clark, what do you think about Trone, you know, what do you think about Tongkat Ali? What do you think about horny goat weed? What do you think about boron? What do you think about, you know, all of these usual effects that we see in a testosterone booster? I don't think it's any one ingredient necessarily. It's your point. The synergistic blend as a formulator that work together and you're not overdosing anyone specifically, but there are people that learn this stuff that create these things in a controlled setting, much like a pharmaceutical. There's really not a lot of difference. The supplement industry is regulated to a super high degree. It's not FDA approved and stuff like that. Because that's the number one thing people ask, right? Oh, is it FDA approved? You Know nothing about supplements, if you're asking that question. But it doesn't mean it's not regulated and watched over because back in the 80s there were every guy that made supplements back in the 80s was a steroid dealer that got busted and got out of jail and, and went into the supplements 100%. That's how I know.
- [65:26]
B
Well, and, and I asked you, does f, does FDA regulated even mean anything? Any. I mean I, I take that with a grain of salt. So I, but I thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly agree with you to the highest level that, that when it comes to something like testosterone boosting, overloading on something could actually be Negl, you know, have a negative effect. And that synergistic effect with the right formula of each working together is really what I have found and I've tested this for a decade on what generally works the best. But you know how a lot of people are, they just want to like take more, more, more, more. And it's like more is not always better. In fact it's often detrimental. And I, I'm glad that, that we talked about that because there are people that ask that a lot. I'm sure you get that a ton of. And it's, it's good to know that that stuff actually does work if used properly. So sweet man. So are there any other aspects of your course that we're missing that you also offer in there? Because we talked about diet. You do obviously put people through training regiments and things like that. But when you were talking about like the mind and everything, do you, what, what do you do when it comes to that to help people get the right mindset?
- [66:36]
A
I help them shift the way they speak and the way they think and how they've position themselves in life to the point where. Clark, I've tried everything. I can't get results. Clark, I'm too old. This net. I hear all of these things and life is not going to stop throwing obstacles in front of us.
- [66:52]
B
No.
- [66:53]
A
And until we learn how to manage those thoughts that come along with those obstacles, we're only going to add more weight to it by saying all of these negative things. So I help him shift from that and speak differently because that's all it is. It's, it's a shift of language, it's a shift of energy. And where that happens is in the community that we've created within my program and we've got a brotherhood of like minded guys, like I said, who would fight for me because we've developed a relationship every single Saturday. We have a zoom Call where I invite on a guest to speak. I talk. Guys come in and share where they're at. My coaches have relationships, but every Saturday at 7am it's been going on for five years now. These guys see me, hear from me, know what I'm going through and what I mentioned earlier, they see my real life. They see me struggling, like sitting here and I say, okay, guys, when I end this call, I'm going to go in and love my wife. I'm going to go in and hug her right now. When I wanted to punch her in her face an hour ago, you know, I wouldn't ever do that. People like, okay, I just please don't take it out of context, but anyone who's ever been frustrated in a relationship knows that. And, and I, I show, I model this behavior to help guys understand. Like, look, if we, if we, you as an individual don't show up in your life and do stuff differently, you're only going to get the same result. And that really, really had a big impact on my guys. When I sat here two years ago and the doctor told me we found cancer. And I at that point had to have a decision of how am I going to take this information that I just received and use it to my advantage and use it to bless and reach other people. And that really closed the gap for me, Dylan. Because in marketing, as you know, if you're too far ahead of your ideal client, there's a lot of belief that they need to have in order to connect with you. So a lot of guys that are in worse shape than I am maybe had a better coaching business because this guy could see him as this guy easier. But when I'm out here in shape and doing what I do, this belief didn't have them joining my program. But the minute I got diagnosed, I became like a regular guy to all these guys. And the more I shared my journey with that helped these guys buy into the program more because they watched me walk through this every single day to where my energy didn't change, my outlook on life didn't change. But I built things because of it. My whole. I mean, I developed a nonprofit organization. I wrote a comic book because of my diagnosis. I have a documentary coming out as a result of my diagnosis. I have blood test kits right here. That none of this stuff ever would have happened if two years ago a doctor didn't tell me, clark, we found cancer. So I thought, I'm going to use this. I'm the best guy for this. Let's go. My wife was sitting back here crying, right? My kids, I had to tell them and I had to help them shift their energy. Now half of these people forgot I even had it. They're like, oh yeah, like, oh, grab it, man.
- [70:22]
B
I love the attitude, man, I really do. It's amazing. And that's, I wish more people operated that way because they'd be a hell of a lot happier and more successful if they carried that kind of attitude. And I'm sure that your clients, and probably why you do so well is appreciate that. Do you have like a screening process on people that want to come and, and take your, your course and everything? And what kind of standard are, are you setting there for people that are interested? I want to let people know now that, you know, I know you touched on it earlier, but kind of, what else goes into that?
- [70:55]
A
Yeah, you got to want it first and foremost if, if you're not serious and you're not willing to have some skin in the game through an investment of money, like if you're not ready to reach in your pocket and pull out your credit card and say, let's go, let's do this. So we do have a screening process. There's no join now button on my website, Max Mach Elite. There's no join now. There is a fill in this form and book a call and we don't hard close anybody at all. We have a call and it's a discovery call. It's a strategy call. It's something where we get to know each other, vet each other out to make sure I'm a good fit for you and you're a good fit for me. Because I'm not training a 20 year old guy that wants to, you know, get on stage and do this crap, you know, this bodybuilding stuff they have now, whatever their fitness competitions, I mean all about it, that's great. But I'm not that trainer. I'm not that guy. I want the guy that's at 40 years old, that's successful in life, he's worked, he's put himself on the back burner, he's got the wife, he's got the kids and he's thinking, man, I played basketball in college, I was in shape, I was that dude. What happened? How did I end up here? Where can I go? I know based upon business. I need a system, I need to be held accountable, I need a business plan and I want someone that's established, I want someone that knows what they're doing and I'm willing to invest in someone like that. I'VE done that in business. You know, how much money, you know, I mean, I've. I've spent tens and tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars on coaches over the years because I'm finding someone that's going to help me get there faster. And just to summarize this whole thing, the coach that I currently have in business, the way they're coaching me is my exact business model. Everything that they've done to me is exactly what I'm doing to that guy. Because somehow they managed to get me through a freaking person, like, hey, you know, we'll do a free assessment of your business or whatever. Oh, yeah, I'll do that. Then I get on there. I'm like, oh, this girl's good. Oh, she's about ready. What? She's going to close me. Oh, my God. Oh, boom. And I'm like, I was in. I. It was easy because I believed the process, and I believed it so much, I was talking to my business partner today. We've leveled up from the base, joining the base to now we're in, like, the seven figure club, all the way in the. In the deep end of the pool and listening to other people who built big businesses ask questions that move the needle so it's. There's no time being wasted. We're like, I get on a zoom call with these people. I don't want to waste any time. Now the questions are, how do I log into my Facebook and send somebody a onboarding sheet? No, it's like, dude, I need to get to scale. I'm spending a thousand a day now on ads. Is it time to go to 2000? You know, these are the kinds of questions that are being asked. And I'm like, oh, okay, this guy's right. Kind of where I'm at. Let's go. And that's how we do it in. In the program. And I'm going to put you with a coach who's going to be aligned with you. He's going to speak your language, he's going to understand your business, you're going to meet each other, you're going to become friends, but he's also going to hold you, hold your feet to the fire.
- [74:15]
B
I love it, man. I love it. I. I swear, the more you say, the more I really appreciate it, and I love it. And. And that is why, I mean, it goes without saying, your. Your reputation precedes itself. But I'm very impressed and really, really excited to share this with people and that I had the ability to. And I know you have a huge audience, But I'm glad to be able to put you out in front of, hopefully, an even bigger one, because what you say needs to be heard, and more people like you need to get out in front of as many people as they can to help spread what you're spreading. And it's everything. It's not just your course, which is amazing, but it's just your mindset and your outlook and the way that you've handled adversity and just smile on its face and just deal with it and then turn it into something good. I find that if you can take adversity and make it something good and take something from it, man, you. The sky's the limit, you know, And. And I appreciate everything that you've said today. It's. It's really resonated with me, and I'm sure with everybody else.
- [75:20]
A
I appreciate it, brother. And I would be remiss if I didn't tell every man that's listening, get your PSA checked. Because that's. You know, we talked about blood work. I was just sitting there at the gym in the parking lot, looking at my blood work because I wanted to go online and brag about how high my testosterone levels was naturally coming into age 60. And my concierge doctor, who I had to hire separately from my standard of care doctor, he said, yeah, Clark, that's all cool. Your testosterone levels are at 787, but your PSA is at 9.8. You better beeline to your urologist and get checked out. And that's how I found out that I had this diagnosis of priority prostate cancer. And it was only because I looked at my blood. So when Dylan and I talk about looking at your blood, this goes beyond finding data to help us get you in shape. It's to find data that could potentially save you from something that I could have still been walking around with if I was like a lot of guys that I encounter. Oh, I haven't done. I don't go to the doctor. I haven't been to the dentist years. Oh, I don't want to go. I'm afraid of needles. I don't want to find anything out. The amount of excuses that I've heard from men to not do something so basic. I mean, it's so simple to get a PSA screen. I can ship it to your house. Yeah, that's. That's the world that we live in today of making things easy on you. And the reality is we all have a circle of influence. We're all influencers and our circle of influence starts with ourselves, our family, wife and kids, our friends, our employers, our employees, church members, people. It just radiates out. And those people are impacted by your existence. And if your existence is vibrating at a high level where you're like excited about life, people want to be around you, people want to be in your energy field. And that's what I live for, Dylan. I live to be the guy that walks into a situation and changes the energy in a room, whether it's on a football field or wrestling mat, a frickin party. I want to be the guy that walks in that people go, oh, there's something about it, not for my own ego, but for what the conversation can have the outcome become. Because it will always come back to hey, well what do you do? How did you look that way? How at 61 do you have the energy and look the way you do and all this sort of stuff? That's why I want to be who I am. And I, and I have a mission statement that I did years ago. It's to positively and powerfully affect everyone I come into contact with. And that's what I think about when I put my feet on the ground in the morning. Who am I going to positively and powerfully affect today?
- [78:08]
B
You know, I had in my head like descriptive words for this conversation where it would go and things like polarizing and things like that. And honestly I was way off with what I thought, like where I thought we would go and everything. It's more like blessing. Like in our entire big picture of the discussion, I would say blessing would be more than anything because of everything you stand for and you believe in and what you've conveyed. There's not one thing polarizing about any of this. Honesty is another one. And I think that's what everybody needs in their life. And so while I was off on maybe my verbiage, my expectation got even surpassed with where I thought this would go. And I had a high expectation for it going into it. And it. I was way too low on how high we'd get here, man, I really appreciate it, I really, really do. And I know you've blessed us with a lot of your time and that's people are busy and yet you told me however long we want to go. And I appreciate that, man, I really do appreciate. Why don't you tell everybody and I'll link everything for you in the description. What are the best places to follow you and maybe even interact with you or just, you know, check out everything that you do yeah, Instagram is just.
- [79:23]
A
My name, Clark Bartram, and TikTok is the real Clark Bartram, because somebody came in there and tried to steal my handle, which they did. YouTube Clark Bartram, all of the stuff will be here. But I personally answer questions. And what I love to do, Dylan, is if someone DMs me, I like to do voice notes. That way people know they're actually talking to me and they. Their mind is blown. They're like, oh, yeah, it's really you. It's not a bot. And it is, because I don't take what I do for granted. I'm very blessed to be in the position I'm in, and I feel very honored that anyone would reach out to me and ask me a question and want my opinion on it. And like I said, if I don't know the answer, I'm going to refer out. I'm going to be 100% honest with you about what I think is best for you. If it's a woman that needs a coach, I have women in my life that are great coaches. For females, I refer out that way. So there's probably someone I know. My son gave me a really great compliment the other day. He said, you know, there's. When I think about life and I think about you, I realize that there is probably no one that I would ever want to get into contact with that you don't know or have access to this, too. And I love that. I. I love that about where life has led me and where I'm at today, man. So I. I don't take that for granted. And now this right here, this new connection that we have, I want to invite you to come onto my Zoom call and speak to my men, and I want you to understand what an honor that is because I'm very selective about who I put in front of these guys in the message that they're going to say. So you have that invitation.
- [80:55]
B
I'd be more than honored to do whatever you ever ask me to do. You can count me in. You don't even need to ask. Just understand. It's just. Let's schedule it. You don't have to. It's not, would you do this or do you want to? It's yes. What day? You know, and that's it, man. You got a friend for life over here, trust me. Yeah, absolutely. Well, like I said, truly appreciate it. And I'm. Can't wait to see, like, things that I can talk to you with in the future and hopefully we could do more together, man. I. I really, really hope so. And I will. So, everybody, I really hope that this resonated with you and you enjoyed it, which I'm sure you did. So that wraps up another one. Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan, Jelli and Clark Bartram signing off.
- [81:53]
A
Sam.