← The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
Episode #56 Featuring Dr. Bryce Appelbaum! THE VISION EPISODE! The Screen Fit Program, Training our brains for better vision, Negative impact of screen time, Comprehensive Vision Care and more!
00:55:12
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hey everyone. Dylan Gemelli here today with an extremely exciting announcement. I am now on the Minect app as an expert. That is Patrick Bet David's app. So you can hire me today. You can ask me questions about hormones, pept, neuroscience, cardiology, cellular health, finances, faith, religion, whatever it may be. I am there. You can book me for your podcast and you can also apply to be on mine. But go over, download the Manect app, find Ylan Gemelli. I will answer either by audio, by text, you can get video responses, you can even book a phone call with me. I'm extremely excited to be available to work with all of you and I thank you all for your support. So check me out on Manect today. Today's episode is sponsored by my good friends at Timeline. Timeline is now offering the world's first ever longevity gummies, powered by Might Appear. You've heard me talk about the importance of cellular health and our mitochondria, which is why I have Timeline as my favorite and most trusted sponsor. These are the only clinically proven Urolithin a gummies for strength and healthy aging. We may be living longer lifespans, but are we truly living better lives? What if the key is not just adding years to but life to your years? This all starts at the cellular level. As we age, our mitochondrial health starts to decline. And one of the keys to living longer and healthier is keeping our mitochondria healthy and strong and might appear targets this for us. Take control of your health now and live the life that you not only desire, but you also deserve. As a gift to all my listeners, you can save 20% off today by going to timeline.comdylan to get started. That's timeline.combackslash Dylan, I assure you your cells will thank you. All right everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Jelli podcast live on set. And it is always so much fun to get to see my guests in person and have this face, face off, one on one conversation. And so my guest today, I love my guest today so much and you're going to see that in the interaction. Soon as I met this man, we hit it off like this, I'm going to give him an intro. It is not going to do him justice and you will see why as soon as we have this talk and he's in town for a convention that of course he's speaking at because he's wanted. So my guest today is a neuro optometrist and he is extremely passionate about unlocking human potential through vision. He's the founder and CEO of my Vision first and it's a leading practice specializing in diagnosing and treating functional vision problems across, across all ages. And he's a trusted authority in functional vision and he's the creator of Vision Performance training which is a transformative approach that optimizes the eye brain connection, it heals post concussion vision issues and it builds long term visual resilience. So through his work with my vision first in screen fit and neuro optometry, Dr. Bryce Applebaum has supported thousands of patients around the world to thrive in a heavy screen used world. Because 2020 eyesight isn't the whole story. So we're going to get into that story, we're going to get into everything that he specializes in and you're going to see extremely quickly why I love this man so much. So without further ado, Dr. Bryce Applebaum.
- [03:43]
B
Dylan. Such a pleasure to be here. Amazing freaking intro. Thank you for that.
- [03:47]
A
Hey man, I'm known for my intros. That's all I'm good at.
- [03:50]
B
I'm psyched to be here, not just to leave the conference, but to connect with you and talk about what we can all do to unlock potential through vision.
- [03:57]
A
I love it and I appreciate you taking the time. I know, you know, you're in town, it's short, you're not here long. And I know I get a little flustered when I have to go to events and it's like I gotta be here and there and you drove out of your way to come do this with me. It's greatly appreciated. I value your time and more so than that, I value the friendship I've been building with you. So thank you, man. I appreciate it.
- [04:16]
B
It's absolutely mutual and I love what you're doing. Thank you. And to be able to, to get vision in the conversation for your community, like that's. There's nothing better than that.
- [04:24]
A
Well, look, dude, I mean, you see the glasses right here?
- [04:27]
B
What are these?
- [04:27]
A
Oh, man, I don't know much about it, to be honest with you. I'll give you a little backstory. So when I got health insurance for me and my wife through our own business, she always goes to the optometrist or the vision. I don't even know what it's called. Anyway, I said, you know what, I think I should probably go. And I went. And I couldn't tell you exactly what I had, but I, I knew my vision wasn't the greatest. And we did find some things. Now we went to Costco, which isn't great. So I figured they screwed up everything and I was getting headaches and anyway, I went to LensCrafters, they fixed me up and I've actually had to get one grade higher. I, I'm pretty low thickness and I don't wear these often.
- [05:08]
B
Far away or for up close?
- [05:09]
A
Yeah, further. It's supposed to be I, I'm on the computer all day. So like when I do this and I take it off, it's. I'm like, whoa, what happened? You know, and yeah, tanning bed, sun time, wear, tear. But I think that vision is one of those things where, like when you're getting insurance, for instance, it's like, well, that's part of it. You don't think about it. And I'm so thankful I went and I never realized just how much it was affecting me. And then I start talking to you and it's like you opened up this whole other spectrum of vision. How it affects health that I honestly, as in depth as I am in health never crossed my mind. So I really, I want to dig into all of this with you today, but I want to get into your background first. Where did you start? What's your background? In college and your studies. And then what made you so passionate about vision?
- [06:01]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm a product of this work and as a kid I was an absolute mess. I had these visual developmental delays. And what that meant was I had trouble focusing my eyes. My eyes didn't work well together as a team. I had poor depth perception. I just felt so lost in space on the soccer field. I had no idea what was going on. I would swing and miss every time in baseball and I was a reluctant reader. I struggled in school. I had interpersonal connection issues because my sense of self in space was not developed yet. And fortunately was able to access vision training at the time which taught me how to close the gap between where vision development was and where it needed to be. And I look at all my success in life, athletically, academically, even interpersonally, to what was done by optimizing this ibrain connection. And so for me there was a no brainer. I was going down this path. I thought I wanted to do sports medicine, but decided I could actually do that through vision, which has been really fun. But now, I mean, I'm on an absolute mission to just raise awareness to let people know there's so much more to vision than just 2020 eyesight, but also to let people know what's possible when we can really unlock our potential through vision. And through this I brain connection and the training that can take place where any brain at any age can be enhanced and optimized in terms of vision.
- [07:22]
A
Excellent. And see, you talk to me about this and I'm going to let you talk about it because it's certainly not my wheelhouse. But the different ways that vision affects our overall health and how it obviously quality of life. And I laugh because you brought up baseball and I keep thinking about Major League with Rick Vaughn, Wild thing, you know, and. But when he got the glasses, everything was fair changed.
- [07:44]
B
I'm glad you bring that up because first of all, it's a great movie, it's the best. And he's the man in that. But two, I mean that's, that's eyesight.
- [07:51]
A
Yeah.
- [07:52]
B
And eyesight's important, but eyesight is a symptom and it's our ability to focus light clearly, our ability to see. And I'm not anti glasses, I wear contacts myself. But vision is so much more complex. And what we're talking about is how the brain filters, organizes, stores, processes all the information coming in through the eyes and how the brain knows what to do with that information to derive meaning and then direct the appropriate action. So from a vision perspective, vision is a direct reflection of brain function. And even hearing you talk about not even knowing why you're wearing these glasses and when you're wearing them, I mean, that's a problem. And yes, that probably sharpens things. But if we look at how your brain is then organizing that information, how your eyes are working together as a team, how well the eyes, brain and body are integrated and using information coming in through the eyes for your benefit, that's really what. Where the missing pieces for so many people.
- [08:50]
A
Yeah, because I would prefer to wear those for the style and not for the need, you know.
- [08:54]
B
And do you feel like you want to take them off a lot of times?
- [08:56]
A
Yeah, like you see, I took them off. Now I just wanted to make sure that I didn't stumble upon anything when I was giving your intro and I. Fine. But it does make it really sharp and you know, in the different setting environment. But generally I don't wear them that much.
- [09:10]
B
There's 20. Happy is where we should all be targeted.
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A
Right.
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B
Rather than seeing the 20, 20 tiniest little letters. Because not everybody sees the same. We don't all have to see the same.
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A
Well, and you brought up symptom, you know, and, and I, you know, and what I do, it's always like, well, let's address this beforehand and not treat, let's prevent. Right.
- [09:30]
B
And Be proactive rather than very proactive.
- [09:33]
A
So let's get into all of this then. You've got the screen fit, you've got these different concepts that most people wouldn't know anything about. I mean, let's face facts. A lot of the things that I've learned over time is that things that seem obvious are diet stuff, practical everyday things. People that ask me, what's biohacking? And I'm like, man, it is not spending millions of dollars. Get up, get outside. You know, do these things, these basic things. So break down for me the things that are, should. We should all know and then the things that we don't and that you could understand. Like, man, you wouldn't know this.
- [10:09]
B
Yeah, So I, I gave a TedX a week ago. Yeah. And the title of it was why Everything We Know About Vision is Wrong. Which is literally this. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people listening to this heard you talking about vision, and we're kind of thinking, well, he's wearing glasses. Like, why is this even a problem? And most of eye care takes a complete, reactive model. Intervention of eye disease looking at structure. Here are glasses, lenses, contacts, whatever to get you to see tiny letters. But nobody's looking at the next steps there and what the brain does with that information. And so there's so much out there that's obvious in terms of like, well, if you can't see stuff, you gotta be able to see stuff. And driving, you gotta be able to see a certain size letter to read a street sign.
- [10:51]
A
Right.
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B
But what about depth perception and reaction time and peripheral awareness and not just knowing where the car is, but being able to anticipate where it's going to be at high speeds from different directions. That's what we should be deciding, whether somebody's capable of driving or not, not whether they can see something tiny. So, you know, I think a lot of the big things are. What's obvious is that everyone thinks vision just gets worse as we get older.
- [11:14]
A
Yeah, I hate that.
- [11:16]
B
I mean, that's like saying cognition has to drop when you get older. Yeah, those are common. That happens. But that's not normal.
- [11:21]
A
Right.
- [11:22]
B
And you know, glasses, prescriptions changing every year. They are changing because you've adapted to the lens you're in based off of the visual stress from your environment and not having the tools or foundation in place to support that. And then you're needing something stronger or different to maintain that same clarity.
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A
Right.
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B
So for an adult, for instance, if your glasses prescription for distance changes every year, the eye doctor Warning signs that there's a functional vision problem there that's causing that. And very often, that's your focusing system, the inside muscles of the eyes.
- [11:53]
A
Yeah.
- [11:54]
B
Like an old school camera lens. We want them on autofocus. They're stuck on manual focus. You need help with lenses to give you support there. So as we age, you know, in our 40s, most people realize their arms aren't long enough and they have to hold things far away. They need reading glasses, but that's like jumping into a wheelchair. When you sprain your knee, you stop using the system. Yeah, you use it, you lose it. That's happens for so much of our body and so much of health. But for vision as well, I mean, we can prolong the need for reading glasses for anybody at any age if it's caught early enough with the right exercises, with the right work, with the right motivation. And also we can make it so we can do more with less for anybody at any age, based off of the setup that we're in.
- [12:35]
A
So when you were talking about like the need to change lenses and stuff, my brain goes to. That's like when you're taking medications and your body adapts, you need a little bit more. You need a little bit more, and before you know it, you need like 20 ibuprofens for it to even work anymore. Because your body desensitizes to things, Right?
- [12:54]
B
And I mean, you've done so much work in the metabolism space and you can have supplements, you can have medications to help that, but also you can train your body to be more metabolically flexible.
- [13:04]
A
That's right.
- [13:05]
B
Same with vision. Like, you can rely on higher powers, higher prescriptions, but also you can train your brain how to get your eyes to work together as a team.
- [13:12]
A
That's what I'm looking for. That's what I want to get into. Because when I first met you and you started getting into this, I'm like, huh? I mean, it makes sense the way that you're explaining it, but on the surface, an everyday person, you assume, well, my vision's just going bad. Like, my hearing's just getting a little weaker. You know, that's just the assumption. That's what everybody throws your way. And that's why internally I was like, eaten up when you said about, oh, you, you know, the, the common thought while you're getting older, it's just inevitable. I hate that. I hate that. Because you can stop it, you can prevent it. So let's talk about that in terms.
- [13:48]
B
Of vision and also the, the attention piece. And we talked a lot about how ADD and ADHD often aren't that they're often functional vision problems causing the exact same symptoms. I mean, so if you can't control your eyes and their ability to focus, you can't control your mind and its ability to focus. Yeah. As simple as that. Sounds like we are in a society where we're slapping labels on behaviors rather than looking at the root cause. Yes. So to get back to your point, so much can be done to train the brain. We can develop better synergy between the inside and outside muscles of the eyes. We can develop better eye hand coordination. We can develop better ability to take in an entire room. I mean, when you walk into a new environment like a lecture hall or a mall or grocery store, there's all this sensory input coming at you, and you've had a head injury. Or if you have functional vision problems, it can feel like an overload. But we can train the brain to process central input and peripheral input at the same time. You can feel safe and feel like you're confident in space, regardless of what's coming at you. Wow.
- [14:51]
A
And that's wild. You don't really think. Once again, commonly thought that you could train your eyes or train the muscles in your eyes. That just doesn't resonate.
- [15:01]
B
And it's even more so. It's training the brain. It's using the eyes to rewire the brain to change how you're using vision by working on the eyes. So there's certain. I mean, we have protocols. We rely heavily on tech and low tech, but take an augmented reality setup or virtual reality setup. We can make it so that the world appears different and your eyes have to converge or diverge or adjust the brightness, the contrast of the glare. And then teach your brain how to control these systems with better self regulation, better self monitoring. We work with elite level athletes and SWAT snipers and Navy seals who already are at the top of their level. But small percentage points in certain areas can have a cumulative effect to lead to massive shifts.
- [15:46]
A
Yeah, I. So you've got people that come to you that aren't necessarily suffering, they're enhancing.
- [15:52]
B
Absolutely. I mean, most people I see have problems, but absolutely, we do a lot of it. Sports vision enhancement. Yeah, we do a lot of biohacking vision where somebody says, you know what, I've gone this far without glasses or in this current setup, I want to be able to go even farther, go my whole life without needing that. There's work. You can. You got to do the work just like to get into good shape. You got to do the right work and keep it up. Yeah, if you stop going to the gym, you're not going to be in the shape you were in. But exactly a couple minutes a day can have a massive impact.
- [16:20]
A
That's why I always say Michael Jordan didn't stop shooting shots. Man, he didn't stay the best because he stopped. He's gotten good. Yeah, it's a daily thing. I read every day, you know, and that's the only way to stay up on current information.
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B
But just think how rare that is though, Jonah. People don't read anymore. They're relying on audiobooks because it's so much easier to digest with their ears and their eyes.
- [16:41]
A
Yeah, I can't do that. I can't do that. I try and the only thing I do is Bible in the year. But I'm still watching it and listening and the words are popping up on the screen so I can read it. I can't just listen. I need to see stuff visually and then I absorb that way.
- [16:57]
B
That's what it's supposed to be. Vision's our dominant sensory system. It should be guiding and leading. But honestly, in this screen heavy world that we're all in, where screen time's a new pandemic, so many people are avoiding reading and avoiding using their eyes because there's just an overload that's hard to withstand.
- [17:15]
A
If you gave me personally the option a hundred out of a hundred times, I would take the hard copy book and read it as opposed to anything else.
- [17:23]
B
So much better for your visual system. So much better for the eye brain connection.
- [17:27]
A
I find it easier to absorb the information. And I'm wondering if is. Is there a, now that we're talking about that I didn't have this plan, but is there a correlation of the ability to take in information, reading it on a screen that is negatively affecting you or from, like I say, a hard copy or whatever, Is there a correlation there?
- [17:47]
B
So there's very different visual skills needed to read on a book versus on a screen. I mean, on screens there's the glare, the brightness, the contrast, but there's also more eye movements. They're more sporadic, they're less organized. You're not going methodically across the page in a linear fashion. Your eyes are darting around that much more. Your focusing system, your eye teaming systems are doing very different work on an artificial 2D device that's blasting high energy light at you for hours on end versus tactilely holding a book. By holding the book, your brain Gets proprioceptive feedback to know where this is. Yeah, yeah. And it's easier for your eyes to know. Okay, I need to point a line and focus on these words that methodically go across the page. And you can, I would imagine, if you tried reading for X amount of time on a book versus X amount of time on the screen. It's. It's not even close to the fatigue and the productivity that is that much more enhanced with paper.
- [18:43]
A
When I have to go through studies and they're all on the screen, I just find my. I. I either get lost. And it's not because it's difficult. It's not because I can't comprehend it.
- [18:51]
B
So this is so tangible for most people. If you were to make a fist and squeeze your hands as tightly as you can, after a few seconds, your hand starts to hurt. Yeah. But if you were to let go and come back and take breaks or not squeeze your fist, you can, you know, hold tension for longer.
- [19:05]
A
Yeah.
- [19:05]
B
When we're on screens, our focusing muscles, which are behind our pupil, are locked up and they're literally under tension over time. Unless you're trying to get super buff. Tension over time is not what you want in your visual system. That's what causes headaches, eye strain, fatigue, dryness, irritation. I mean, all of these things that are. These symptoms that are choices now that we can avoid if we know better, so we can do better.
- [19:29]
A
Yeah. It's almost as though you're not just doing sight vision, but it's like a correlation of brain training.
- [19:37]
B
Absolutely. It's. I mean, neuroplasticity we know exists for any brain at any age. We are tapping into new pathways. We're creating new pathways, but we're literally rewiring the software with the right protocols and the right type of work to allow for our brain to function differently. And when you think about just the normal stress response, when the autonomic nervous system goes into fight or flight from a vision perspective, our pupils widen and we get this tunnel vision effect. That's literally how we're operating on a screen. And so you're under stress on a screen, which changes your thinking, changes your attention, changes your visual function, and then your brain starts operating differently. Wow. And that can impact so many aspects of life. Even, like, patients after a long workday, coming home and being with your family, and, like, you have a short fuse because you've literally been in fight or flight for most of the day. I mean, there's so many buckets that are so crucial. But I mean, even just like Happiness and mental health.
- [20:38]
A
That's where I was going.
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B
I mean like the amount of patients that will share that, literally the work that we did with them saved their life because they were driving over a bridge and all of a sudden they were aware of what they weren't aware of and they got locked in even more centrally and they got into this panic attack and started not trusting what they were seeing or somebody who is planning meetings earlier and earlier in the day because afternoon or in the afternoon, they hit that afternoon slump and there's brain fog and there's fatigue and there's just loss of happiness with the work and what they're doing because literally their brain's operating differently than it was previously. I mean that piece is huge. And so we see a lot of people with anxiety, with ADD or adhd, with even much more substantial mental health challenges. Notice a curtain's gotten lifted after their eyes start working well together and their brain starts listening to that information. I think that's one big piece. Sleep, I mean sleep is the most important thing we can be doing for our bodies. Not lying. Yeah. People that are blasting their tablets and the phones before bedtime, it's throwing off circadian rhythms. It's throwing off melatonin secretion. It's also getting them into this hyper aroused state where it's really hard to shut off your mind many times throughout the day, but especially when you're laying in bed at night.
- [21:55]
A
Yeah, I, I, man, I, you know how many years I was, have been doing that And I always told myself that's not why you sleep. Like, you know, and in reality. And I don't do it anymore. I'm kind of like playing Mike Tyson punch out on regular Nintendo TV before I go to bed now. But you know what, I'm sleeping way better. And I believe it's through prayer and lack of.
- [22:16]
B
And if you are on the screen, the bigger the screen, the farther away. Yeah.
- [22:20]
A
So.
- [22:20]
B
And this gives everyone listening an excuse to go buy the biggest TV you can find and just put it out on the wall as far as you can away from you. That's what I did.
- [22:29]
A
Seriously. And, and you know, it's, it's actually made a significant difference. I can't believe how much of a difference. I used to sit, do all my fantasy sports at night. Like the stuff that I just don't have time to do during the day. But then it's just like I don't, I'm not a big day scroller. Right. And that's kind of like when I was Doing that, which one, clearly bad for your sleep in your eyes. But two, just not good for you in general. It's just not good things to even worry or care about. And so. And I stopped doing that. One, the obvious you brought up. But two, it kind of doesn't convolute your mind with a bunch of BS too. So there's a lot that goes into it. Right.
- [23:02]
B
But even, I mean you are educated, you are proactive, you're. Your health is important to you and even with that you have these struggles. Right? I mean the vast majority of people have no clue what we're even talking about. They don't even have a file on this stuff.
- [23:17]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's tough man. I mean it's tough for everybody. That's why I like to humanize everything I do so people know just because I teach it or live it doesn't mean it's easy.
- [23:26]
B
And I'm not anti tech, I'm very pro tech. But we're in a world where screens are everywhere and especially for kids who don't have the brain development and the vision development to support even this. I mean we're creating massive problems for people.
- [23:40]
A
Well, that's just it. They're brought up on it so they don't know any different. So for a lot of these kids you can't even fault them because they've never held books. But you know, one of the things when I was doing online classes and everything and every. Your textbooks are all ebooks and stuff. I hate that. I, I despise it. I actually would buy extra the textbooks because in the tuition it's like you get the ebooks. Well, I don't want the ebook so I'd actually go out of pocket and go buy the regular book even if I barely used it.
- [24:08]
B
I mean there's studies that clearly show better retention with handwritten information and with flipping through pages and using tactile feedback as well as multi sensory integration to learn, process and then store yes versus just being spoon fed or blasted information that it's hard to have a meaningful experience with that.
- [24:32]
A
Well that's, and that's part of writing stuff down. It's part of reading it and, and not just taking a voice note and listen to in it or you know, whatever. It's, it's all about seeing it and training like you're talking about. And now I understand so much why you do what you do in the end, the broader spectrum impact that it has. And that's kind of what I wanted to highlight here. And when Something that we're doing is change in lives and it's building health and it's enhancing quality of life and longevity. Yeah, I want to listen.
- [25:00]
B
I tell every patient that we work with in office, if we are not completely changing your life, one of us is doing something wrong here. And that's the potential this work has. And that can be true with our online programs as well. But In Office is customized and it's high level and it's really, really intense work, but work that creates lasting changes that are yours to keep when you're done with it.
- [25:24]
A
Well, let's get into that because I want to. I want to give a full, broad explanation of everything that one can expect to go through your program in person and online.
- [25:33]
B
So, so let me first say. So, vision performance training, it's kind of like physical therapy for the eyes, but really for the brain through the eyes. Okay. With the intention of raising to somebody's awareness what their eyes are doing, how they're taking in space, how the brain's processing information so they can learn how to self correct, self monitor and reroute what is not functioning the way it's supposed to be. And so we rely on tech, we rely on low tech. We rely on incorporating movement and balance and cognition and vestibular input. So it's a really holistic approach because vision doesn't operate in isolation of these systems.
- [26:08]
A
Right.
- [26:09]
B
But it's also allowing development to take place that maybe has been bypassed. So no one is born with the ability to read. No one's born with the ability to use their eyes to track, to converge, to focus, or even to see in 3D. It's all developed through our life experiences. And it's either learned appropriately through the right sequencing of milestones, or learned poorly. And that leads to these imbalances. Pretty much every functional vision problem is either a maladaptation, a bad habit, or it's using your brain a different way that it's wired and then going down that rabbit hole of feeding the symptom.
- [26:42]
A
Got it. Okay. It's a great breakdown. Very factual. I love it.
- [26:47]
B
I love it. Cool.
- [26:48]
A
Okay, so we've got this program, My vision first.
- [26:51]
B
Yeah. So my vision first is the practice. We have real busy local practice, but we do these vision performance training boot camps or intensive programs where literally every week we have people from all around the world flying in. It's 12 hours of work, of active training with really thorough evaluations beginning and end of the week. And that's kind of the reboot. But then we put you on a really, really badass home program with a customized virtual reality platform where we give you a headset, you go in, whatever the game is, chopping fruit, popping balloons. But we're adjusting the ocular, so you're having to converge your eyes or diverge or adjusting the brightness or the contrast, the glare, whatever it may be. We then get your data and your answers adjusted on the back end. You go back in next time you're playing a new game, but it's at a whole new, higher level of demand. And so we're chipping away at the work that needs to be done from a virtual setup, along with also a three dimensional setup where you're relying on cards and strings and other things, where we're teaching you certain exercises and sequences throughout that to keep making things more involved and more integrated.
- [27:56]
A
Okay.
- [27:57]
B
And then at the end of that time, I mean, it's many people, they just need the weekend office, the home program, and they're good to go. Then we have others with really complex cases like eye turns, lazy eyes, massive head injuries, strokes, where oftentimes they need more than that. But then we just, you know, have them come for multiple weeks.
- [28:13]
A
Do you have success rate percentages on people that come through?
- [28:17]
B
I do. And this is going to sound aggressive, but it's 100% success, really. And the reason I say that is we're just very picky with who we work with and we do see people with guarded prognoses, but we together determine what looks like success. Like, what are our goals? Why are we doing this? If somebody's saying, I'm in a minus 10 prescription and I have terrible headaches and I get motion sick all the time, and I'm tripping over my feet and not trusting what I see when I'm going up and down stairs. Out of that, we figure out, all right, what is attainable with enough work, a lot of that's attainable. But the glasses prescription is probably not going to change. But everything else, like how you then function in life, that changes dramatically. And since switching to this intensive protocol, we have flipped my profession upside down, really. And the amount of, of targets on us of, oh my God, you're saying that you can get people out of reading glasses. And five years ago I would have said that's impossible. And now, I mean, we're at 95% of our adults after the intensive either have a weaker reading prescription, no reading prescription, or can do more with less. And that's something that, like, we never even pushed the envelope to see what was Possible up until Covid, when everything changed.
- [29:35]
A
So you have, like I see here, people come on the site, they take a quiz that you. You have on there, and then that determines to you if you can help them or what extent you can help them too. And you kind of have a maybe like a consultation with them pre to kind of figure out.
- [29:52]
B
We have our operations really dialed in.
- [29:54]
A
Yeah.
- [29:54]
B
Which is amazing. So.
- [29:55]
A
Sure.
- [29:56]
B
So the quiz brings us to who are you talking to on our team? Okay. You start off with a what we call a discovery call, but more like, what are you looking for? Where are the pain points? Where are the opportunities for improvement? And then depending on, you know, the path, every single patient we see, even local patients, we do a virtual consult first to make sure you're in the right place there for the right reasons that we can help. And then the testing piece, that's the one piece that really has to be done in person, just because it's so thorough and so dialed in. But we determine, like, what's the right step. And for many people, it's, I just want to start the cross. I want to cross the start line. I want to get going on my journey to a vision improvement. And then others, it's like I've had terrible migraines my whole life, and I can't leave my house without feeling like the world's closing in on me. And for those people, it's a very different setup where let's just. Let's take baby steps, but let's get you to a place where you can live happily and unlock so much of what's been holding you back through. Through this eye brain connection.
- [30:55]
A
Okay. So let's just make an example. Create an example. Use myself. So somebody like me, I. I don't know the number here, but I know it's one of the lightest numbers that you have here. They upped me one. I think they. I want to say they had like a. Oh, it starts with an S.
- [31:12]
B
Maybe it takes things from being blurry to hd.
- [31:14]
A
Yeah. And I don't. I don't want to stigma something in my.
- [31:17]
B
Stigmatism.
- [31:18]
A
Stigmatism. That's it. Yeah. So somebody like me. Would you be able to get me out of these?
- [31:23]
B
Definitely. Maybe.
- [31:24]
A
Okay.
- [31:25]
B
Yeah. It depends.
- [31:27]
A
Possible.
- [31:27]
B
In many cases. Yes. Okay. We would be able to do testing to know for sure.
- [31:31]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [31:32]
B
But if these are. I mean, rarely wearing these and having to be a mild prescription. Yeah. Astigmatism, for instance, by definition means the eye shape more like a football than a basketball. But there are Aspects to astigmatism that are not based off of structure.
- [31:46]
A
Yeah.
- [31:46]
B
They're based off of function. Or that focusing muscle we talked about behind the pupil. That is maybe saying, oh, it's easier to focus this way, but not as easy to focus this way.
- [31:56]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:56]
B
And in those cases, oftentimes astigmatism can decrease or even be eliminated. But if anything, we can make it so your prescription is not going to increase. Yeah. Or that you don't need these as often. I mean, that's pretty much a guarantee just based off of this setup and what, you know, what you've shared that, how you're using them.
- [32:15]
A
So, you know, somebody that's like, had glasses for 30 years, they shouldn't go in with the expectation, I'm not going to have to have glasses. Right.
- [32:22]
B
I think this type of work is. Is so much more than just not needing glasses. Yeah. Not using reading as a sleeping pill.
- [32:28]
A
Right.
- [32:28]
B
Getting rid of your motion sickness. Being able to know where the ball is. It's. You can play with your kids. Being able to not bump into walls or knock things over because you're reaching for a glass, but the glass knocks over because you think it's in the wrong place. Or as crazy as it sounds, people who misplace their keys, that is a vision problem. That's looking for the keys here, here and here, but not looking at them for them here. Right. Or when you're talking to somebody, looking at your left eye, your right eye, your nose, but you can't see the whole face in one picture. That's vision.
- [32:58]
A
Right. Let's talk then about the kinds of different expectations that you see people have that come in. Okay. Because I'm sure there's a lot of broad expectations. So I'm appealing to everybody out there listening. It's really not just one particular problem. There's a slew of different issues that you help with that you address that is inviting to so many people. Because I want to give the spectrum of the audience of if somebody's listening to this, like, oh, maybe I don't fit into that. Well, maybe you do and you just don't realize it.
- [33:29]
B
Totally. The low hanging fruit is reading.
- [33:31]
A
Okay.
- [33:32]
B
Somebody who's losing their place with reading. Skipping words, skipping lines, not remembering what they're reading. They're thinking about what's for dinner rather than what they're reading. Having to go back and reread somebody who's been mislabeled or labeled with dyslexia. Dyslexia often is not dyslexia. It's a hidden functional vision problem impacting the ability to read. If you look up dyslexia in the dictionary, it says difficulty reading words. I had somebody in two weeks ago who is an adult woman. She has two kids, she's homeschooled them. She never learned how to read and has identified as dyslexic her entire life. That's who she is. It defines her. There's a lot of emotions tied to that. By the end of the week, she was reading really. And day one, I mean, we measured her eye movements with an eye tracker on a screen and on a book measuring exactly what her eyes were. Her eyes are dancing all over the place. Yeah. You can't read if you can't organize your eyes to be able to decode and process appropriately. So I would say I've never met somebody where we couldn't improve their reading ability. That's out of tens of thousands of patients. So I think the one piece that this can really help, this type of work can help for everybody is reading.
- [34:45]
A
I could be way out in left field here, but I don't think I am based upon what you say. And I'm careful because I don't like to ever categorize everyone because I think that's not fair. It's just not. But I, I think that a lot of times diagnosis and I'll compare it to like putting everybody on a statin, for example, because their cholesterol is X increased on what your perceived level is supposed to be. Which anyway, I'll relate it to that by me saying with ADD or stress related issues, I feel like that they're so quick to throw you on 20 different pills that you got to stay on forever that turn you into a zombie or robot. Never actually fix anything and may fix one thing, but give you 20 other problems like a stat. Do you feel that there's a high end misdiagnosis of add? It's just a simple thing to slap on everybody. Almost like a built in excuse is.
- [35:38]
B
What I would call it.
- [35:39]
A
Do you feel like what you do with brain exercise, vision aid, do you think there's a correlation there with add?
- [35:49]
B
This is not a. Do I think this is. I deeply know there's not a blood test that says you have ADD or adhd. Right.
- [35:57]
A
Show me.
- [35:58]
B
It's based off of symptoms and behaviors. Yeah. Research just came out that shows 15 of the 18 symptoms associated with ADHD have a visual component that's treatable.
- [36:09]
A
Really?
- [36:10]
B
The amount of kids we see who they're doing poorly in school, they've got ants in their pants in the classroom, they're not reading, they're not learning, and they're on like one med didn't work. Must have been the wrong one. Let's try another one. Let's add, let's add, let's increase the dose. Yeah, we're not even lifting up the hood to see what's causing that dysfunction. Now, there are some people who do have ADD or adhd, but even still, our ability to focus our mind is so intimately related to our ability to focus our eyes. And if you cannot control your eyes, you cannot control your mind. So from that standpoint, visual attention is so important for everything in life. And there's not a coincidence that the prevalence of ADD and ADHD is drastically increasing. And also so too is the visual stress from life drastically increasing. Screen time is being introduced at early and early ages for kids now taking over all aspects of life. As humans, our visual system is intended to guide movement and to focus in the distance, far away in natural light, scanning the horizon for the saber toothed tiger coming at you right now. We're taking those same skills and blasting them up close for hours on end. And our visual system that evolved for that was created for back in the caveman days is now clashing against these modern day demands that we're all under. At a minimum, those are incomplete diagnoses.
- [37:31]
A
Yeah.
- [37:32]
B
So you've ruled out functional vision problems that cause the exact same.
- [37:35]
A
And how many people would you say this is like, yeah, I feel like I'm an attorney asking questions here too. Like, how many people would you say go to a doctor, go in and say, I'm all over the place, I can't focus and have a doctor bring up anything that you're saying?
- [37:53]
B
I mean, it's almost nobody. There's so few of us who do this. And my specialty is we're not taught any of this in school. It's extra training, extra residency, extra fellowship. But then even with that, even if you're board certified in this space, diagnostically, you know exactly whether vision is interfering or whether it's where it needs to be. But then how do you close the gap and the treatment that's needed? This isn't like PT for a sprained mcl where you're getting a dozen sessions for grade one, two dozen for grade two, and anyone you go to in town is the same work. There's not consistency yet on what vision training looks like. And so this is something at a minimum. Everyone listening needs to Just know, like, we need to be putting our vision first and at least looking into vision as having a relationship with all of these other challenges.
- [38:43]
A
My goal when I do this is to enlighten people so that they understand when they go do something, there's always way more to it than what you're led to believe or told. And the goal here that I have, that I feel like I was put here to do, is it's not promote Dylan. It's promote everybody that I know that can give this kind of message to people and help them to see everything, like, from a broader perspective and to not just accept things and to question.
- [39:17]
B
What the specialists or the doctors are telling them. I mean, doctors are so myopic in terms of, like, the specific symptom they're chasing. Yeah. Or what they know, but not looking at the whole person.
- [39:29]
A
And that's why people like you are so important that I love to give as much spotlight or talk to as I can, because the more that I can put it out there to let people see, then they can understand what they're missing and why whenever they're told there's not an answer. There is.
- [39:46]
B
I so love that and so appreciate that because I look at my purpose as changing how the world's looking at vision.
- [39:52]
A
Yeah.
- [39:52]
B
And to avoid unnecessary struggling because of these hidden, functional vision problems. When you know what to look for. They're not hidden. They're right in front of your face.
- [39:59]
A
And you say that, and it's like, that's what you're doing in two ways. Like, you know, metaphorically and actually physically. Right. And I think letting people see that and understand it is so important to know that there are people like, you exist because, you know, you. You get into a lot of these situations and you feel hopeless.
- [40:18]
B
We should be realizing we all have so much potential in so many areas. And what's happened to us as hopefully can make us stronger. We can learn and grow from it. But then there's so much more possible when we're listening to our intuition.
- [40:33]
A
Yes.
- [40:34]
B
And finding doctors who are partners, not just somebody who's telling you what to do. And you have to listen to them, to making decisions together with all of that.
- [40:42]
A
I don't even fault a lot of them because it's what they're taught now.
- [40:45]
B
Totally.
- [40:45]
A
You know, and it's up to every single person to look into everything and figure it out and find it. And so that's why, you know, there's so many different people to listen to and to follow. And that's why it's important that we work together and get this kind of information out there so people know that.
- [41:03]
B
So grateful for that. Yeah.
- [41:04]
A
I, like, if I wasn't in this space, I'm still a researcher, and I would look, but I. Somebody like you, I wouldn't know that there was a practice or even that that was a thing.
- [41:14]
B
Yeah.
- [41:15]
A
And when you break it down, it makes so much sense, and it. It correlates with so many different things. And I'm like, wow. And I think what you're doing is beyond incredible, actually, because it seems like an impossibility. So how possible is this for people? Like, what does it take? What do they have to do? Let's. I mean, how can we make this a reality that people can go and do it? Because I want everybody to know.
- [41:40]
B
Yeah. And I mean, I'm very realistic that most people listen to this. Are not going to be able to fly to Maryland and spend a week with us because it's a heavy lift. Right, Right. So that's where that Screen Fit program comes in. I mean, I created that during COVID when I saw firsthand what screens were doing to my young kids at the time, realizing, like, oh, my God, this is a problem for them, but also for mankind. And if we don't get ahead of this, like, we're doomed. So screen fit is literally the way to just get started. Okay. And it's kind of like doing body weight work at home instead of going to the gym. You're going to get better results, better shape, better results, faster if you're at a gym with a trainer with all the equipment.
- [42:16]
A
Right.
- [42:16]
B
But not everybody has a gym across the street.
- [42:18]
A
Exactly.
- [42:19]
B
So Screen fit is. There's two different courses. Each course has 30 lessons. Each lesson is 10 to 15 minutes to do. It's one lesson a day. If you did it five days a week, it'll be six weeks. And you get it and use it as long as you like. There's no expiration date on there, really. So you can buy it once for your family and the whole family can go through it. But it's all meant to be vision exercises that don't require equipment, that you're watching a video of what to do, but then you're putting the screen down. It's not more screen time to treat screen time. And then you're doing these exercises, whether at a stoplight, in the bathroom, at the dinner table, when you wake up, whatever it is. We've had thousands of people go through it with 100% of people who've Finished the program seeing a reduction in symptoms 100%. Now if you don't finish it, that's not gonna be you.
- [43:06]
A
Right.
- [43:07]
B
But we've had as young as 5, as old as 89. And it's really designed to teach the visual skills needed for reading, for screen engagement, for driving for life at a level that can kind of be a one size fits all approach for everybody and more complicated stuff needs more than that. But it is something that has blown my mind in terms of how successful it's been for people just eliminating unnecessary struggling.
- [43:30]
A
You only get what you into it, what you put, you know, right. I mean you're going to get out of it what you put into it.
- [43:34]
B
And I always like to say that the people who say like exercise doesn't or says vision exercises don't work, those are the same people saying exercise doesn't work. Like you gotta do it, you gotta know what to do.
- [43:45]
A
Call me crazy, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta put the effort in. So if somebody comes in person, do they also get this opportunity to do the screen fit online that come in person?
- [43:55]
B
Yeah, that's at the end of the. So we say it's like a six month program with us when you come in person. So it's the weekend office, three months of dialed in home exercises with regular calls with our team and then we put you in a screen fit which can extend at least another three months, but longer. But we put everybody in there. It's a great maintenance program. We have a lot of pro athletes who use certain exercises from that program as their pregame ritual. We have others who make this just part of the school day for their kids. And it's simple stuff, it's eye push ups, it's eye stretches, it's going on walks, but actually intentionally opening up your periphery while you're on a walk. So you can not just see the mailbox here in the house here, but you can see them both simultaneously. And you can look, learn how to look soft and open up your side vision.
- [44:44]
A
So somebody wants to come do the whole, whole damn thing. Come to Maryland to you. What's. It's a five day program.
- [44:51]
B
Five day program.
- [44:53]
A
What's the expectation on that daily and.
- [44:54]
B
What are they so evaluations? Monday morning, about two hour evaluation and then a follow up evaluation on Friday. Going over all the same tests with a ton of objective data where we can actually show all the wins and then 12 hours of work during the week. So it's usually three hours a day, something like that. About three hours a day. And that's where the reboot is. That's where the heavy lifting is. But then you're continuing that beyond. And we're holding you accountable and we're making sure that you're doing the work. We're even getting your data from the VR platform to know. Dylan, you said you were doing this every day. Like, you haven't been in since three weeks ago. What are we doing here? So it's a little bit of hand holding there as well, and accountability, which is important.
- [45:37]
A
So do you do the teaching yourself or is it somebody else?
- [45:39]
B
I have. I'm blessed with an incredible team. Yeah. We have a bunch of doctors, a bunch of therapists. I used to do it all myself, but then realized, man, not possible. Not even not possible. It's better when we have everybody involved with all the care.
- [45:55]
A
Yeah.
- [45:56]
B
And we put a lot into the intensives. I mean, high touch points, VIP treatment, but also, like, you're working with a doctor one on one the entire time. And it's completely customized. So your first session, we plan based off of the testing and then how hard we push you, what we do, the paths we take, the lunges we're making into new networks. That's based off of your responses is adjusted in real time.
- [46:21]
A
So at the end of the week, you're gonna get an evaluation. You're gonna know.
- [46:25]
B
I mean, yes, you'll know earlier in the week. And I mean, we have, depending on the case, we can predict. All right. By Wednesday, here's what you're going to notice. My karate. Here's what you're going to notice. But it's not uncommon for people to not only be improving outer vision, but then also really tapping into inner vision. And we've partnered with an amazing energetics coach. We've partnered with amazing confidence coach, health coach, where for certain people, we're kind of unpacking it all together. Because vision health is brain health, and brain health is body health, and body health is influencing everything. And so somebody with terrible systemic inflammation that they know or don't know about, or somebody with really bad brain fog. We're incorporating supplements and nutrition protocols and lifestyle modifications, because without addressing those, you're leaving so much healing still on the table.
- [47:20]
A
I love that, man. So you're really digging in and you're addressing everything because, you know, that's one of those things I always tell people. And. And I'll relate it to what I do. It's like you can come in and I can put you on every diet plan and supplement in the world. But if we're not, like, hormonally optimized and, like, mentally stable, there's a lot of things that I have to look at first to ensure that you're going to get what you need, because otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.
- [47:45]
B
And I'm sure you see so many clients who are like, give me all the supplements and all the red light panels. But you realize, like, okay, you're eating trash, you're not sleeping, and you have stress everywhere in your life. Yeah. You can't get the outcomes you deserve without hitting those two.
- [48:00]
A
Dude, if I had a penny for everybody that said, how do I lose weight? Or how do I do this? And once that quick answer, I would never have to work again for 20 lifetimes.
- [48:11]
B
So the losing weight is the eyesight improving?
- [48:14]
A
Yes.
- [48:15]
B
Right. Like, you do all the stuff to find health and then your weight's gonna drop.
- [48:19]
A
Yes.
- [48:19]
B
You do all the stuff to optimize the eye brain connection, then your eyesight's gonna improve. If we have it all lined up the way that it's supposed to be.
- [48:27]
A
Every problem has a solution, but it takes an effort. It takes work. It doesn't solve itself, it doesn't correct itself, and there's no such thing as a genie in the bottle or a magic wand that I can wave that's going to fix it. I always tell people, I'll give you all the tools, I'll give you all the understanding, I will give it all to you, but it's ultimately up to you.
- [48:47]
B
And it's. People want the quick fix.
- [48:49]
A
Yep.
- [48:50]
B
There for sure are big wins and incremental changes day to day that we can identify with vision, you can identify with just overall health. And as long as that can be the carrot that you put in front of yourself to dangle to say, okay, this is working, I'm staying motivated. When you start seeing results, it's pretty hard not to just be even more all into what you're doing.
- [49:12]
A
Right. Small daily habits and fixes and correct, you know, corrections, they accumulate into heavy big wins. You never. You're going to have big days, you're going to have shit days, you're going to have common days. And. But if you just try to figure out one thing every day that positively changes. Dude, you go back and look like two months back and go, holy. It's like you look at yourself in the mirror every day, you can't really see, right. But if you take a couple pictures and you look and you're like, whoa, you know, I was just Shopping for new wheels on my truck and, and looking at it and I'm like, I don't know if that looks really cool. And then we did a side by side picture. I'm like, let's do it. You know, but that's, that's, that's the reality of things is when you look at things every single day and you don't look at the broad perspective of things, you miss it and you, you don't see it. And I think the old adage, it's a marathon, not a sprint goes with everything in life.
- [50:16]
B
Absolutely.
- [50:17]
A
Really.
- [50:17]
B
And from my perspective, screens, they're not going anywhere.
- [50:20]
A
No.
- [50:21]
B
And we can absolutely develop a foundation to thrive in this digital world. But for most people you need outside work to make it happen.
- [50:28]
A
Right. It's 100%. It's only going to get more prevalently used and, and depended and relied upon.
- [50:35]
B
Let's thrive in that world rather than just like figure out how to.
- [50:39]
A
Yeah.
- [50:39]
B
How to manage it.
- [50:40]
A
It's goes back to the. Do we have to just accept that or do we kind of say this is, this is what it is, this is what we got to work with. So let's fix it totally. You know, and adapt to it. So. Awesome. All right, so I have a coupon that you've graced my audience with. If they want to take advantage of. This is a huge. I was going to say, isn't it a pretty significant.
- [51:05]
B
So it's right now if you look at screenfit on screenfit.com it's at 497.
- [51:10]
A
Yeah.
- [51:10]
B
And because you're the man and are several times talking, I've just felt so connected to you. We're going to drop at $200. Really? So it's 297 for anybody if they use your code.
- [51:22]
A
Code is Dylan. I would recommend taking my man up on that offer because even at the price point that he's got it at, you're getting way more than you would ever dream of getting by going to the optometrist or doctor to put you in a pair of these where you got, I mean this pair alone, I, I want to say was five or six hundred bucks. Now granted, you don't have to buy an Armani pair, but I, I'm for the.
- [51:44]
B
Yeah, they're good though.
- [51:45]
A
I mean, but you know, you, you go in there, you buy, you buy a couple pairs in case something happens. You're over thousand twelve hundred in.
- [51:52]
B
One of the coolest things is people we ask everybody for just like sharing their experience after Going through screen fit. The amount of people who say, oh my God, I haven't bought a new pair of glasses in X amount of years. Do you know how much that saved me? Yeah, alone is pretty cool.
- [52:05]
A
Like I said, I would love to just go buy some frames that are dope like this. That looks flame glasses with nothing in them. You know, that would be my ideal thing. Save me a lot of money.
- [52:15]
B
And that would or not need to like change or buff that up because you're functioning well through that setup.
- [52:22]
A
That's just it. And I'm, I'm joking here a little bit, but in reality I don't like wearing those, man. I don't like having to put those on to sharpen what I'm seeing. I'm working on spreadsheets a lot because I'm doing a lot of things for different companies I work with and I do a lot of numbers and I'm looking and I'm like, man, I'm going to screw this up because I can't see the numbers. You know, I'm looking off screen and it sucks. I don't want to do that.
- [52:41]
B
And even like missing numbers, I mean that can be a massive problem. Yes. And then for you, if we, when we increase accuracy, we're going to slow down the eye movements but then hit the gas with speed and then your brain and your eyes start functioning at the same speed. And then it's like you can scan across, take in more space with each eye movement, but not have to go backtrack and not have to think, oh my God, I need to get my mind focused because it's so taxing just to use your eyes.
- [53:13]
A
Well, I'll leave it with this with everybody is I'm gonna, once I do this, we'll go back through it and the, the conversation is going to be about what I went through and what I did.
- [53:24]
B
And let's film this the end of that Friday and then round two, we'll.
- [53:28]
A
Do it and we'll see the, you know, just what I went through, how it changed. And then people can get an even more in depth thing of, of what to expect and, and get an idea of it. But I would urge you after listening to this, seeing the importance getting that huge of a discount, take advantage of it what you can. I would urge that. So my brother, tell everybody where to follow you. I'm going to link everything, my code, we'll do all of that, but just so listeners that are listening to can appreciate it, man.
- [54:00]
B
So my vision first dot com. That's our website. Everything's housed under that. And then Instagram. Dr. Bryce Applebaum. But we spell Apple Bomb E L, not le because my ancestors wanted to make things hard for us. So it's on there. You'll find it quickly. But it doesn't sound as nice as. As Apple Bomb. But this has been such a pleasure. I. Your passion and your desire to help people just like, came through the first second I met you and appreciate it. Man on steroids here today. So I just really appreciate what you're putting out there for the world.
- [54:31]
A
Anytime. I'm just glad we got to talk in person and do this live. Yeah, I already knew it was going to be awesome, but superseded expectations. Thanks for taking the time because I know it's not easy and going here and there and having to go back and speak and do everything. So I appreciate it, brother.
- [54:46]
B
Really, my pleasure. Great to meet you and thank you for the opportunity.
- [54:49]
A
You got it. All right, everybody, stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli and Dr. Bryce Applebaum signing off.
- [55:01]
B
Sam.