← The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
Episode #65: Inside the UNDERGROUND Research Chemical Market!! What are "research chemicals?" What does "Not for human consumption" really mean? How are underground peptides made?
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Foreign. Hey everyone. Dylan Gemelli here today with an extremely exciting announcement. I am now on the Manect app as an expert. That is Patrick Bet David's app. So you can hire me today. You can ask me questions about hormones, peptides, mov, neuroscience, cardiology, cellular health, finances, faith, religion, whatever it may be. I am there. You can book me for your podcast and you can also apply to be on mine. But go over, download the Manect app, find Ylan Gemelli. I will answer either by audio, by text, you can get video responses, you can even book a phone call with me. I'm extremely excited to be available to work with all of you and I thank you all for your support. So check me out on Manect today. Today's episode is sponsored by my good friends at Timeline. Timeline is now offering the world's first ever longevity gummies powered by Might Appear. You've heard me talk about the importance of cellular health and our mitochondria, which is why I have Timeline as my favorite and most trusted sponsor. These are the only clinically proven urolith and a gummies for strength and healthy aging. We may be living longer lifespans, but are we truly living better lives? What if the key is not just adding years to your life, but life to your years? This all starts at the cellular level. As we age, our mitochondrial health starts to decline and one of the keys to living longer and healthier is keeping our mitochondria healthy and strong and might appear targets this for us. Take control of your health now and live the life that you not only desire, but you also deserve. As a gift to all my listeners, you can save 20% off today by going to timeline.comdylan to get started. That's timeline.combackslash Dylan, I assure you your cells will thank you. Welcome back to the Dylan Jelli podcast everybody. And today we are going to dig into a topic that I think is going to be extremely intriguing and one that I really don't see people broach or get into very often. So I'm going to give you a little level of my expertise in this particular area and I think you're going to be fascinated and quite an eye opening discussion that we're going to have here today. So I want to talk to you about the research chemical underground market where you can find peptides, sarms, nootropics, often labeled not for human consumption and I'm going to get into all of that. So what is the research chemical market or ideology? Well, essentially it's a workaround of having products that are essentially illegal and selling them in a legal manner. So they, they've been around for quite a long time, longer than a lot of people would ever know or remember. I was actually introduced to them all the way back in 2011, and that's when I first discovered sarms and peptides and this world of research chemicals. And I, like most of you, saw immediately that it says not for human consumption and said, okay, that's it, no, thank you. But in reality, that is simply to be able to sell them legally. Now, we can get into the safety and efficacy of these as we go on, which we certainly will. But on the surface, that is simply there to be able to sell them. That does not mean that they cannot be taken, so to speak. And the FDA is clearly aware of this, and they kind of just let it go. And legally, if these products are promoted in any way, shape or form for human consumption, speaking on what they can do as a benefit for you, promoted as anything, like, you'll see influencers promoting them or people saying that they use them to lose weight, to gain muscle, whatever the case may be, if there is a direct association found with said company that they are marketing these products in that manner, then there are multitudes of things that can happen. I have seen anywhere from FDA letters sent out with warnings that they need to comply, and they'll eventually come and take you down if you don't comply. And so they'll send out a list and you can actually get on Google and find warning letters they've sent to research companies and go into great detail on what they were instructed that they had to do to comply with legalities. Oftentimes they'll cite, they'll find literally anything and everything, and they'll give a long list to business owners and give them a certain amount of time to reply and get everything in the standards that need to be met. How they pick and choose. These could be a variety of things. They know, trust me when I tell you, they know how much traffic that these sites are getting and which ones are raking in the most money. It's very easily known data that can be found, especially by, you know, people in government. So they know that. And if somebody may be making too much money, not filing taxes, things of that nature, that could be one way too. People that are sending in any types of letters saying they were harmed, hurt, taken advantage of, money stolen, things like that, that could be another indication. And then compliance. And there's a lot of reasons for compliance. One is really pushing the envelope with what you're selling. I don't know how the FDA goes about saying, okay, this is where we're cutting the limit off on research chemical or whatnot. But there are certain products that fall out of even the research chemical side of things, obviously illegal steroids and things of that nature. But other pharmaceutical compounds I've seen people trying to sell, hcg, for example, could get you shut down if that's on one of these sites. Clomid, Novodex. You'll see people getting away with it for a while, but oftentimes they will eventually come and get them. The funny thing is, is enclomiphene doesn't generally set this off. Uh, HMG is another one that could possibly cause a problem. And then people will sell pro hormones or other banned substances that have come across. Generally, if you're selling any sort of banned substance and trying to put it in as a research chemical, there's gonna be a problem. Another thing that I've seen too, and, and Viagra, Cialis, these are known to get people shut down, busted, whatever the case may be. I've seen some people knowingly and unknowingly selling things that they weren't aware of, whether it was. I. I've seen a, a company that had a doctor that was helping them formulate some research chemical things, and he was actually putting in calis into one of the compounds. Some undercover agents bought them, tested them out, immediately sent a letter. These are not things that you can sell as research chemicals. So some people spike their products knowingly, and some people just don't test the raw materials that they get sent in. And we're going to talk about how that happens and where they come from. But the companies that get these products sent in mainly from China, that don't test well, I've seen a variety of things happen where they think they're buying one thing and getting something totally the polar opposite. And oftentimes it's something that is highly illegal, but far cheaper. And so a lot of these, you know, Chinese places will send them a fake coa, which is a certificate of authenticity, claiming it's one thing, and the people that are buying it here will just take their word for it. And my argument is always, you know, if these people are so good at making fake Louis Vuitton purses that pass and fake Jordans and things that are highly expensive, do you think that they have any trouble whatsoever making a paper certificate of authenticity, which anybody here could also do? So negligence is a big reason why a lot of people would get shut down as well. But when you see these companies that are going really promo heavy with influencers out there and, and anymore the influencers themselves are getting shut down for doing this promotion, you know, out on social media too. So that's another whole different story. But they'll find this, they'll correlate it and they will send these letters out. Now shutdowns can occur as well. I've seen a lot of people that have their hands on other things. For example, you'll see these letters or websites that come out that saying people were shut down and they're involved in steroids or money laundering or. That's a slew of things. I've seen so many different stories. They're getting all sorts of things sent in from, from out of the country, not filing taxes, you know, tax evading on these, you still have to file the taxes on the money that you're bringing in with these companies. So that's another thing that they're doing. But that's when they really, I've seen people get prison time for it or at least probationary time because of the ways that they were doing things that were highly, highly illegal. And, and you know, I don't have the answers as to why the FDA picks who they do sometimes either there, there's oftentimes things there that we just wouldn't be aware of in the public. And the way that they let this go, it's hard to see the rationale or the, the way in which they pick and choose. Some people are so blatantly obvious, some people push the envelope way too much and it's just a matter of time for those people. I, I don't have, you know, an answer because I don't work for the fda. I do know and have interviewed Rick Collins, who is a big time attorney that really only handles steroid cases and research, chemical cases and these kind of illicit compounds. And he's given great insight and I'm going to have him back on again to kind of get into this further and give more legality sides of, of this in all aspects of performance enhancing drugs because it's really interesting to learn about these laws and see what they let go and what they don't and how they can bombard at one point and then it seems like they just don't notice. But I want to get into the safety of these products, what you're buying and things to look out for and to be careful of. So one of the big things that I found to be very troubling to me as I, you know, learned more about these companies. The more I was around them, the more I saw, the more that I learned. A lot of these companies that you think you're buying, buying something so great from, let's take four different companies. There's a good chance that they're all actually going through the same white label distributor, slapping a label on. You're getting the exact same product from any of these companies and some are charging you more or less dependent upon what they feel like doing. And I'm sure some of them are getting a better deal. If they're buying higher or less volume, they're probably getting lower deals. And some people are giving you really cheap labeling and cutting corners to make extra money so they can sell the products cheaper. So that's one of the things that people don't realize that oftentimes you are simply getting a drop ship product that is the exact same company to company. Another thing is, is there's a lot of these companies that are doing what I'm saying here, but that's the same person doing it. While some of these companies might be using the same distributors, some of them are just the identical owners just slapping a different label on there. And you think you might be getting something special or different, when in reality it's the same person that you're buying them from. And it's hard to figure that out or find that out. But a lot of these companies give telltale signs with the way that they, their site structures, their emails, the things that they do, they mix things up. But that's another thing that I've seen a ton of the trick marketing is the one that bothers me the most. And one of the things I learned about this industry that I've actually correlated into everything that I buy is the amount of fake websites out there that are bought and paid for. What I've learned is a lot of these sites, the site owners, they actually reach out to companies and they give them the opportunity to be featured on their website for a price and a cost. And they rank these sites really well and they look like real review sites. And in reality these are bought and paid for and you don't know if the reviews are true or not. And I've found that to be a fact in a lot of consumer goods, unfortunately. Because what I learned in the research chemical industry and the supplement industry being a part of it so long and seeing how these sites were made and how they were done, and then I was looking at, at products for, I remember it was one Christmas and I was looking at Stuff for my mom and my wife. And I was going, wait a minute. These are set up and structured the exact same. I bet these reviews are bogus too. And that's why when you see a lot of these review sites and you go to em and you're going like, well, five, six of these. They're all seemed exactly the same. And then you find this outlier and they're like, well, that one's probably not right. When in reality that's the one that probably is because it's not bought and paid for. And it's so troubling. But you have to always remember, scroll down to the bottom, look at the fine print. So some of these sites, these research chemical sites, and you'll see them on like Men's Journal or gq. And you're like, well, how the heck, how is that possible? They must be legit. No, no, no, no, no. They know the ways and who to pay to actually make it look like they're on these sites. But if you scroll down and oftentimes they'll do it on these newspaper sites and it'll say, this has no affiliation with us. This is a bought and paid for advertisement. And you don't know who's writing it or what. These companies are actually really good at this. They create these fake journalists, they are able to buy licenses, they do anything and everything. I literally have seen it all and it is extremely scandalous and it tricks everybody. So you have to be careful with review sites that you're reading because generally they're misleading and false and it's really, really difficult to sift through and find what's the reality and what's not. And for the ones that aren't using, you know, United States drop shippers and manufacturing sites, what, what are they doing? How are they doing this? Well, they're taking a huge risk by having stuff shipped in from overseas. So Chinese factories and companies are sending them raw materials. Sometimes they're sending them lifolized powders that are already ready to go in peptide vials. Sometimes they're sending just big cases of powders and raw materials that they're using to do it themselves at their own factories or labs or even some of these places do it right in their home. And it's not sanitary, it's disgusting. There's no control whatsoever the environment that, that it's in. And that's another thing that you have to be careful of. But the key component here is a lot of these places, like I said earlier, they don't test the products they just take the word for it. If you don't have updated COA certificate of authenticity from someplace in the United States which you can legally call and ask and verify, I would be very, very careful and hesitant. Those places that do the testing, you can call and ask them if these are accurate and ask them to read to you what the actual reading is and they have to tell you. And they do a lot of these places, they won't update their websites. They'll put a certificate of authenticity up once and they'll never redo them again. So it'll appear that you're getting a great product that was maybe tested six months ago, but that's not the same product you're buying now. See, it's very expensive. It normally costs, if you're going to a good lab, two to $300 a test per, per, per item. Well, what about these websites that have fifty SKUs? Some of them have a hundred or two hundred if they do nootropics, peptide sarms, everything, some more. So you know, it's, it's not super cost effective for them to be paying for testing all the time, which they don't. And you have to be very careful of that as well. So when it says not for human consumption, while that might be a ploy to sell it legally, it may be factual for some of these place may never want to ingest this stuff because you don't know what you're getting. And that's the problem when you're making these selections. I've talked about this for years on how this works and how it goes. And then the other thing is, you have to understand too when you're in this, what is called a high risk industry and we're shifting to payment methods here, these companies can't get consistent credit card processing because it's one of those things that would fall into high risk, which would be like a gambling site, a gun site. These are high risk sites. Well, they're high risk for, for different reasons. But the reasoning on this is twofold. One is because the chance of harmful products and people getting hurt. But two is the amount of chargebacks people file. So what they do, they pay for the products, they get them and then they immediately call the credit card company and file a complaint saying they didn't get it because they know that the companies have a basically a zero chance of winning even with proving they were sent. Because they can say it was a bad product. And because it's such a gray area and what they're sending and the proof and Everything behind it, they can get away with it. Well, it's a high risk to the merchant because the merchant's having to refund and then they're at the risk of the actual, you know, company not paying. So it's, it's a, it's a trickle down effect. And so the payment methods can be quite, quite tricky. They have to do workarounds a lot on these sites. A lot of times they have to try to do crypto or E check. And I've seen a lot of people reporting about getting ripped off, money taken, not comfortable with giving out the information that they need to give out. There's constant workarounds that are done, but it's very inconsistent. And you'll go there one day in your favorite site, then you might go another day and find that, wow, all the payment methods gone or wow, that place is shut down. And another thing that happens that you have to be careful about because this industry is so dirty and shady. What you'll find too is a lot of these companies will do website attacks. So if you see your favorite research chemical company down for several hours or days even, it doesn't necessarily mean they were shut down or raided by the FDA. Oftentimes it's a, it's what's called a DDoS attack that's being thrown at their website and it's taking them down offline. Well, the problem with that is not only is it that people are attacking them to stop them from selling or to try to throw a wrench in their business, but they can extrapolate data. So if you have used a credit card or any other data or you have anything else in the system, well, they try to steal that too. And so there's a slew of things of concern that you have to worry about and be careful about. I mean, it's a very long list. What's the plus side? Well, the plus side is you've got access to so many different products. I mean, you know, you go to a compounder, a compounding pharmacy or whatever, they can only make so many things legally here. So you can only get certain X amount of things prescribed and that's it, right? And you're done. So you're looking at like the smallest, tiniest fraction of a percent on what you can actually go buy or get prescribed to you, you know, legally, as opposed to this massive catalog of compounds that you hear people discuss all the time, but you hear em discuss em, but it's like, where, where do I get em? What am I supposed to do? Here, you know, and that, that's the thing. So if you want to get those, you don't have an option but one, and that's to go to a research, chemical or underground market to buy them. So that's where this tricky aspect comes in. There are some good ones out there, but there's a lot more bad ones. And the thing is, is they pop up daily, these people, they're like vultures and they're popping up with new companies so sporadically and out of nowhere. And then you'll see them and then they'll disappear. You'll see them and they'll disappear. They'll pull something on Google to get ranked, then they'll do something that actually gets them penalized, they'll disappear. They put out fake press releases, which they do. They do everything and anything they can to be tricky and sneaky and try to, to, you know, skew the system, take advantage of it, play the system, play you. And it's like this non stop thing that goes on and most people have no idea about any of this and they get taken advantage of, they get misled and they oftentimes lose a lot of money or get hurt. You know, you take a peptide and it's something else like a pro hormone or a steroid and you go get your blood panels done or you start having these really odd side effects you're not supposed to get. And you go in there and look in, your liver's thrashed, your cholesterol's out of control, your blood pressure's off the chart, your kidney functions are terrible. Chances are you didn't get what you thought you were getting. And so these are all such important bases to cover and how this market really works and how cutthroat it is. You know, the supplement industry is, is similar and different. It's similar in the way that people badmouth people, they put a tax on people, they go leave tons of negative comments and remarks that aren't true. They sabotage, they lie, they cheat. That's one of the reasons why I got out of all of that market because it was such a, it was so troubling for me to see and be a part of. And that's why I'm providing the education now to teach people what it actually is. You know, the places that, that I get everything from are the smallest places that cost the most money because they're not these huge fish that are trying to control the whole market. You know, it's kind of like when people look at the big pharma and what they do. The people with the most money have the most control over everything. I mean over, unfortunately, the narrative that gets pushed out the, the marketing that they can spend so much money on, which they do a hell of a good job at, but convinces you of one thing that's not factual. And I don't. I hate being the conspiracy guy and the guy. I'm the guy that points out the facts because I've been in the trenches and I've lived it and I've seen it and I know it. I always want to be careful now of falling into any traps, calling anybody out by name, doing any of that. That's not what I'm here to do. I'm only simply here to tell you the things to be aware of, to watch out for and the realities of what actually goes on out there. It is cutthroat. It is real as it gets. And people will literally do anything and everything to, to take control and take over, to take all the money there. There is so much money in the supplement industry and even the research chemical and it is such a massive market and there's so much that could be shared and so many different options that are out there for people. But yet people get so greedy and overcome and they don't realize what they're doing and they worship money instead of being for the people. And you know, I will always be for the people doing God's work. I used to be a certain way that I regret and I'll never be that way again. And so I wanna, I wanna really atone for that and help people to avoid falling, trapped to that. So that's my synopsis and breakdown. I hope that was enlightening and helpful and really shed some light for you. I. I always, always want to deliver the best information possible. And you know, like I said, I'm here to do God's work. I'm being led by the Holy Spirit and I'm discussing what needs to be discussed. Discussed and helping in the way that, that I feel I'm compelled to do. I want to be an arbiter of truth, a man of God and like I said, for the people. So that being said, stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gelli signing off. Sam.