Can You Actually Change an Unmotivated Team Member?

Summary

The EntreLeadership Podcast
Host: Dave Ramsey (Ramsey Network)
Episode: Can You Actually Change an Unmotivated Team Member?
Date: March 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is centered on the complexities of leadership, especially when it comes to developing unmotivated team members and guiding teams through adversity. Dave Ramsey responds to real questions from business leaders at different stages, sharing his insights on accountability, servant leadership, decision-making under uncertainty, and career growth. He addresses topics like how to handle an apathetic intern, making critical business decisions without full information, supporting strong performers who don't want to lead, and effectively delegating responsibilities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Can You Change an Unmotivated Team Member? (00:47 – 09:00)

The Situation

• Caller (Thomas, Memphis): First-time leader, managing a college intern who is disengaged and not showing clear strengths or passions.

Dave Ramsey’s Guidance

• Servant Leadership is Key:
  • Start from a place of genuinely wanting to help your team member become a better version of themselves.
  • “The whole basis for the communication, the whole basis for the interaction is you have his best interest in mind. I want to serve you.” – Dave (01:53)
• Accountability as Love:
  • Hold others accountable because you care about their future success.
• You Can’t Control Everything:
  • Sometimes, despite your best efforts, team members may remain disengaged (some simply want the internship as a résumé item).
  • Learn from the experience, especially as a developing leader.
  • “If you're going at it from an idea of … I'm here to help this person be a better version of themselves … then you've done all you can do at that point.” – Dave (02:22)
• Direct Feedback (Tough Conversations):
  • Sometimes, loving leadership means giving hard, corrective feedback for the intern’s own benefit.
  • “An act of service could be, ‘Dude, you suck at this. You're going to have to really turn this around ... I'm going to hold you accountable as an act of love towards you.’” – Dave (05:00)
• 'Be an And, Not a But':
  • Quoting Nick Saban: Help your people become those who add value (“and”), versus those with reservations (“but”).
  • “My job … was to teach them to be an and and not a but.” – Dave (06:23)
• Long-Term Impact:
  • Your real job is to help interns and employees grow as people, not just accomplish tasks.

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2. Decision-Making Under Uncertainty (10:02 – 16:54)

The Situation

• Caller (Terry, Greensboro): Owner of a wellness spa rebuilding after a fire; facing decisions with incomplete information (e.g., opening a temporary location before insurance clarity).

Dave Ramsey’s Guidance

• We Never Have All the Details:
  • “I don't think we ever have all the details. And, yeah, we have to move forward ... but I also don't want to get over into ... being rash either.” – Dave (10:48)
• Fatal vs. Non-Fatal Risks:
  • Only take risks you can absorb; avoid ‘fatal’ decisions that can end your business.
  • “I don't mind failing. I do mind fatal failure.” – Dave (12:46)
• Push for Action from Others:
  • Apply pressure to entities (like insurance companies) to move things forward.
• James Bond Analogy:
  • Never “slide all your chips to the center of the table” – Don’t risk your entire business on one uncertain decision. (14:24)

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3. Career Growth for Non-Managers (18:12 – 25:10)

Listener Question

• Hudson, Delaware: Has a rock star performer who does not want to manage others; should he push them toward leadership or build a different growth path?

Dave Ramsey’s Guidance

• Honor Their Strengths and Preferences:
  • “You build a different growth path.” – Dave (18:38)
• Don't Force Leadership:
  • Forcing an individual contributor into a manager role can ruin a great performer and create a poor manager.
  • “That would be leukemia to my spirit.” – Russ Carroll (as quoted by Dave, 21:50)
• Alternative Growth Options:
  • Recognize and reward excellence within their discipline (e.g., Senior Salesperson, Lead Designer) without requiring people management.
• Provide Clear Advancement Paths:
  • Develop creative growth opportunities that don’t require leadership responsibilities but still recognize performance and expertise.

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4. Delegating Responsibilities & Growing Your Team (25:13 – 29:46)

The Situation

• Caller (Jackson, San Antonio): Regional leader at a coffee shop chain, concerned about giving away too many responsibilities as his team seeks growth.

Dave Ramsey’s Guidance

• Focus on High-Value Leadership Tasks:
  • Delegate tasks that others can do to focus on “new things, big things, and broken things.”
  • “As the leader, you need to work on new things, big things, and broken things.” – Dave (27:04)
• Let Go to Let Others Grow:
  • Train and empower your team to take on more; your primary role is development, not gatekeeping.
  • “That's what the purpose of leadership is, is to teach people how to do something and then get out of the way and let them do it, not just stand in their way all the time.” – Dave (29:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Loving Leadership:
  “I'm going to hold you accountable as an act of love towards you.” – Dave (05:00)

• On Risk-Taking:
  “I don't mind failing. I do mind fatal failure.” – Dave (12:46)

• On the Wrong Promotion:
  “That would be leukemia to my spirit.” – Russ Carroll, describing leadership he didn’t want (as quoted by Dave, 21:50)

• On Letting Others Lead:
  “Teach people how to do something and then get out of the way and let them do it.” – Dave (29:00)

• Nick Saban Principle:
  “My job ... was to teach them to be an and and not a but.” – Dave (06:23)

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Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------------|:--------------:| | Introduction & Call from Thomas | 00:10 – 09:00 | | Servant Leadership & Handling Unmotivated Interns | 01:53 – 06:25 | | Decision-Making with Incomplete Info (Terry) | 10:02 – 16:54 | | Career Paths Outside People Management (Hudson) | 18:12 – 25:10 | | Delegation & Core Leadership Focus (Jackson) | 25:13 – 29:46 |

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Conclusion

Dave Ramsey provides actionable, hard-earned wisdom for real-world leadership challenges. His advice centers on servant leadership, accountability, risk management, and creating space for multiple types of growth. Whether you’re dealing with underperforming team members, high-stakes business decisions, or the challenge of developing your best people without pushing them into roles they don’t want, this episode delivers practical frameworks and motivational takeaways for leaders at every stage.

Key Takeaway:
You can’t always change an unmotivated team member, but you can create an environment focused on growth, accountability, and service—and you must honor both your and your team members’ unique strengths and aspirations as your organization grows.

Transcript

[A]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is Entre Leadership, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you got a question you want to ask on the show, fill out the [e-mail] ask or call and leave us some voicemail at 844-944-1070. That's 844-944-1030. Thomas is gonna start us off today in Memphis. Hey, Thomas, how are you?

[B]

I'm doing well. How are you, Dave?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

I am an engineer and a first time leader. I work in heavy manufacturing for a company with about 4,000 employees. We did 1.3 billion in revenue last year. And yeah, and my problem is that I've been hitting a wall with my intern. I've explicitly asked about his passions, but I'm not getting much feedback and seeing no clear strength in his work. And my question is, how do I determine if I'm part of the problem and leading my intern and how do I discover his strengths and passions?

[A]

Hmm. So this is like a college kid intern. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And how many people do you lead now?

[B]

It's just him. It's just the one. Like I said, it's my first time in any sort of leadership position out of school, and so I'm trying to make the most of it.

[A]

How old are you?

[B]

24. About to turn 25.

[A]

Oh, okay. All right, all right. Okay. Well, it starts with the idea of, you know, the whole basis for the communication, the whole basis for the interaction is you have his best interest in mind. I want to serve you. I want to make your life better. After that. We can't control where he comes from, what he's been damaged by before he got there. And it may be that you never get through to this person and it not be a fault of yours, but if you're going at it from an idea of. My job is I'm here to help this person be a better version of themselves and help them. I'm going to serve them, help them get their job done more adequately. And I'm not there for what I can get out of them. I'm here to what I can do to lift them. Then you've done all you can do at that point. Yeah. And so, you know, sometimes I've had people that weren't interns, that were full on employees. Full on team members. Right. And they refused that interaction. I can't do anything about that refusal, except that's probably going to end their time working here. Yeah. And so the intern may very well be there just collecting an item for a resume. And they're not really interested in, you know, all this interaction. They're not interested in doing better. They're just there to, you know, I'm gonna put this on my college resume that I was an intern at such and such, this billion dollar company, and. And they're there to collect that item, and they don't really care what happens while they're there. If that's the case, there's nothing you can do about that.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

And so I wouldn't sweat it too much. Too much. Except as a learning experience for you as a young leader. And. But I mean, it's very possible that they're just there mailing it in. Is that possible?

[B]

I think so. I mean, this person does have ties to this company previously through family. And, you know, I would think that

[A]

could make it worse. Maybe.

[B]

Maybe. I mean, I think there is. There's interest shown, an interest in doing a good job, but I'm not seeing that executed. I'm not seeing much initiative. And so I just want to make sure that I've done everything I can before. You know, I guess I kind of resigned to the idea that, well, there's. Maybe there's not much more I can do.

[A]

Yeah. I think that if you start and end with, we're doing this for their bit, what's at their best interest? For instance, when you were a kid, your dad and mom made you brush your teeth so that when you're older, you had some. You may or may not liked that, but they had your best interest at heart. It wasn't gonna affect them whether you could chew steak at 30. It was gonna affect you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so they made you do something that was uncomfortable for you or that you didn't like maybe right then for your own good. And that was an act of service. Although on the receiving end of it, it didn't feel like service at the time. And so sometimes that's what you get with an intern. It may be that this guy's mailing it in, he's sitting with his feet up on the desk, he's coming in late. And an act of service could be, dude, you suck at this. You're gonna have to really turn this around because the attitude and the way you're going at this, you're going at this at three Quarter speed. When you get out here in the real world and trying to do something three quarter speed, somebody's going to take your head off, man. And so I'm going to love you enough to help you get boned up and get ready while you're here. And so let's start working on some of these things and how can I help you? But I got to tell you, I'm going to hold you accountable as an act of love towards you.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's really what I'm worried about is if this person graduates and then my manager comes to me and says, well, should we, should we hire him? I would have to say, no.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I would like to tell them that. So what I want to do is help you. I want to help you to do the job that makes me want to recommend you. Yeah. And I'm going to help you do that. I'm going to help you be that kind of a person, that quality of a person. I remember we had Nick Saban at one of our entree leadership summits, and Ken Coleman was interviewing him. And I sometimes remember what some of these folks say in interviews, and I'll never forget this one. He said, my job when I got these young men coming on the football team was to teach them to be an and and not a but. He said, when they're going in the combine and the scouts are looking at them and they look at the scouting report, they say, hey, this guy can run a 4,440. He weighs 275. He's a, you know, he's. And he's a person of character and leads well in the locker room and is an addition to the culture of the team. Or the scouting reporter will say, but he's had a run in with the law on domestic violence. He was picked up once on drug charges and he's a disruption in the locker room. He said, my job is to teach these young men to be an and while they're playing football. And not just a but. And so that's your job here, is to help this guy. You know, this guy's a great intern and he's a good human being. He's a person of faith. I would want him to date my sister, you know, and. And not. Not, you know, oh, yeah, he comes in, he's got a good resume, but he's not really engaged. But he doesn't care much about the job. It seems like he was mailing the thing in. So my job is to help you be an and instead of a but. And I think that's kind of the way we're going at this. But the reason we're doing all of this is not just, you know, so the kid gets a little bit of work that an intern is going to do done. It's not like we're gonna lose a billion dollars on this kid's activities. But the thing is, we're trying to help this person become a better version of themselves. So their interaction with you and with this company propels them further towards success. I've had leaders in my life that gave me loving, gentle, and sometimes not so gentle correction that have formed me into the successful person that I am today. And you get to participate in that now. And I think that's a wonderful honor on your part. And the fact that you're asking this question means you're the kind of people we like hanging out with. Thomas, way to go, man. You are a great leader already. Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family, and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further. Automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster. You're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And, yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule a time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey. Terry is with us in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hey, Terry. How are you?

[C]

Hey, Dave. I'm well. Thank you for taking my call.

[A]

Sure, my pleasure. What's up in your world?

[C]

Well, I'm the owner and founder of a wellness spa here in the community. We are celebrating 11 years in business. We do about 950,000 a year in revenue with a team of 17 employees. And I'm navigating a very high pressure season. Our business experienced a fire early in January. And my question is this. Do you always need to have full clarity when making a decision, or do you act to take care of your people, the team members, and the clients, even though you don't have all the details?

[A]

Well, I don't think we ever have all the details. And, yeah, we have to move forward. And in the vacuum that we're in of incomplete information, we're still required to move sometimes by the circumstances. But I also don't. I don't want to get over into the side of I'm being rash either. I want to go slow enough that I'm finding wisdom, but fast enough that I don't get run over by indecision so I can't tell what we're talking about. Give me a little more detail.

[C]

Well, the decisions, when they affect both the team and the clients, plus the finances.

[A]

Like what?

[C]

Like opening a temporary location while the rebuild happens, even when insurance hasn't provided clarity. Because acting too soon may affect, you know, have a real effect on those things. But if we wait too long, there's also a real cost.

[A]

Okay, so if you open the location before you had clarity from the insurance, and the insurance therefore doesn't end up paying for that, can you absorb the blow?

[C]

Do you have the cash for a period of time? Yes.

[A]

Well, the period of time will be until your place is rebuilt, right?

[C]

Right. Correct.

[A]

Can you absorb the blow until it's rebuilt? The rent and the cost of the location, do you have that kind of cash reserves? You do?

[C]

We do.

[A]

If the answer is no, then you've got to say, oh, I can't make this decision until I get clarity because it's a fatal decision. I don't do deals that I don't make decisions where if I'm wrong, everybody goes home and we have to shut down. I don't do fatal. I don't mind failing. I do mind fatal failure.

[C]

I love that point.

[A]

And so I'm okay taking some risk. But that also means I'm probably jacking up some people at the insurance company, and if they don't give me an answer by Friday, I'm gonna have an attorney call them. So I'm also gonna put some pressure in that way. I'm not going to just accept that. That they're jerking me around because that makes me afraid that I'm going to get jerked around all the way around this thing. And by the way, insurance companies are kind of known for that.

[C]

Right, Right. I think that's exactly the information that's good to hear in this particular Yeah,

[A]

I mean, I'm going to put some urgency, light a fire under their butt. Because, guys, I'm out of business. And I can't get back in business with comfort until I know that you're going to actually do what you're supposed to do. Am I going to have to sue you and this is going to be a year, or are you going to step up and do what the policy says and not lose a customer?

[C]

Right.

[A]

You know, and I don't know, I don't know what you got there. I'm not sure about that. But if you think this is a six month rebuild and you can make enough profit at the new location to at least break even, or you could cover whatever hole you're in and keep the customers and the employees busy for that six months and even break even, then I'd do that in a heartbeat. Or if you're going to lose $10,000 and you got $100,000 in reserves, then yeah, I'm doing that in a heartbeat. But if it's going to cost me 200,000 bucks out of my pocket and I have 100,000, well, now I can't do it right, because my cash reserves, that's a fatal. That's the difference in an error in judgment that leaves me with a bruise or an error in judgment that leaves me out of business.

[C]

I think that's great advice that I needed to hear.

[A]

Yeah. So I call it the James Bond effect. In the James Bond movies, they always somewhere in the movie he's playing cards with the evil guy that's gonna destroy the world and he has to slide all of his chips to the center of the table. And if he wins, he wins the whole thing and the world is saved. If not, the guy's gonna kill him and the world is over. Whatever. You know that thing. So I don't do, I don't slide all of my chips to the center of the table ever.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

I don't ever do that. There's no deal. There's no situation where I'm gonna be broke again because of one decision. We just don't make that decision. We go another route, we do something else. And it doesn't sound like that's here, but it sounds like, okay, there's a couple of knobs I can turn here. I can jack this insurance people up or get an attorney to jack em up. I can analyze what my worst case scenario is and do I have the cash to absorb that? And if I can keep all my customers and it costs me little money And I can keep my high quality team members and it costs me a little money. And instead of actually being profitable during this rebuild over the six months or whatever it takes to put the shop back together, I'm doing that to keep. Because that's an investment in the future.

[C]

Right?

[A]

But that's all something I have to be able to survive if it doesn't work. And then you can rally the troops and say, hey guys, customers, help us stay open. We need you to come use our services at the new location. Because that way we get to have the old location back and we get to stay open. We need you guys to come in and do business with us. And hey team members, we need you to be at your best and take super good care of these customers and make them want to come back in here 10 times more. While we're getting this rebuild done, let's everybody pitch in and save this company by running this side location extremely well from a customer's viewpoint and from a team member's viewpoint. And that's why I'm doing it. I'm doing it for y'. All because that keeps us open long term. Because if you go dark and you send everybody home and you gotta do all the rehire and you gotta restart your customer stuff, that's a heavy lift. I'd rather spend some money to keep everything intact as a worst case scenario. As long as it's money I can use or I can afford to lose, that's where I would be. So. Great question, Terry. You sound like a great leader. I'm proud of you. Keep it up.

[D]

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[A]

listen up. Your business won't grow until you do. When you lead better, your people perform better and your business will win bigger. That's why you've gotta come to our next Entree Leadership Summit. It's the premier event for leaders who are serious about growth. You're going to spend four days getting insights from world class leadership experts including Will Guidera, the New York Times bestselling author of Unreasonable Hospitality Vanessa Van Edwards, the national bestselling author of Captivate the Science of Succeeding with People Brian Buffini, founder of North America's largest real estate coaching company and one of our favorite Irishmen, Duncan Wardle, the former head of innovation and creativity at Disney and many more. Best part is, all of this happens at Disney's Colorado Springs resort and in Orlando. To join us May 17 through 20 in 2026, visit entreeleadership.comsummit or click the link in the show Notes Question of the Day comes from Hudson in Dover, Delaware. Dave I got a rock star performer who I'd love to promote, but they've made it clear they don't want to manage people. Do you push them towards leadership or build a different growth path? You build a different growth path, they you need to give them rewards for becoming a better version of themselves. I don't know what area they're in, but I've had salespeople that the worst thing we ever did with them is make them a sales manager because they were fabulous at sales and they hated managing people and we destroyed a good salesperson and made them into a lousy manager. So we've done that too many times. They have said I don't want to manage people. Don't make them, make them a better version. A senior salesperson or a senior I've had designers that are in the creative side and they don't want to manage a bunch of creatives. They want to be a creative. I've had people that are writing code and they don't want to manage people. They want to write code and they escalate all the way up to being one of the best writers of code in the entire building and they get paid accordingly. But they don't want to lead all the people that write code, all the software engineers, it's not what they want to do. And one of the biggest mistakes I made, and I made it early, was I thought it was a great idea. I thought I was doing them a favor to promote them into a leadership role. The very first person I ever hired was a guy named Russ Carroll. Russ worked here for almost 20 years, and he retired here. And I hired him to be a coach, a counselor, a financial counselor, helping people who were struggling with money or who had money questions coming in one on one counseling. And he was really, really good at it. He did a little bit of speaking for us in the early days before there were Ramsey personalities. He would go to a local church and talk about what God says about money, like I did this week. That kind of thing happens. Okay, he did a little bit of that. But we started growing and growing and growing. And our counseling department now had five or six people that were doing one on one counseling. And Russ was the first guy here, and he was the senior counselor. I'm like, okay, Russ, I want to put you in charge. We're going to make this a department, a counseling department, and put you in charge of it. And you're going to have the opportunity to make a lot more money and be in charge. You've earned the right to be in charge. And he's like, no. He goes, you mean I would have to hire and fire people? You mean I would have to be responsible for the profit and loss statement and for the budget? You mean I'd have to be responsible for the marketing of this? He said, no, I want to do coaching. I want to do counseling. And his quote, I'll never forget it because it was so poignant. He said, that would be leukemia to my spirit. Whoa. He said, I don't want to do that. It would kill me. And I'm like, okay. And he worked here the rest of his career as a counselor, and he was our senior guy, and he was always sat in a seat of honor. And he made more money than most of the other coaches and counselors, and he worked really hard, but he never took on leadership responsibility other than just being the senior guy in the area. And I never forgot that. And we've replicated that decision several times where we will present it to someone, but when they say they've made it clear, I'm quoting you, Hudson. They don't want to manage people. That sounds like it's more than one discussion. This wasn't a passing thing at, you know, sitting over the lunchroom table one day. I don't think I want to lead people. No, that wasn't what this is. They've made it clear this would be leukemia to my spirit. So, no, they don't need to be doing that. And it's not a blessing to them. So, you know, they made it clear that whatever they're a rock star performer in is what they. That's when they're in their zone. That's when they feel like they're in control. Like, I feel God's breath when I'm doing this and I feel God's smile when I'm doing this and I don't feel it when I'm doing this other stuff. So, yeah, I think you find a way there to create a growth plan within that. And we've done that. Our developers, our software engineers, we've done that with our creatives. We've done that with a lot of people in those areas because they love the actual discipline, but they don't want to run the department that has the where they have to manage their peers, lead their peers in this situation. And that's what they get into sometimes. Honestly, developing that growth path is tougher for those of us that gravitate towards leadership, but it's worth exploring and figuring out a way to do creatively. Hudson and it's cool that you ask this question. It's clear you've got a good open line of communication with this person. Every breakthrough in your business starts with a breakthrough in you. That's why you need to come to Entree Leadership Summit. You'll get insights from top thought leaders in the leadership and business space, like Will Guidera, Vanessa Van Edwards, Brian Buffini, and more. And the best place it all happens at Disney's Coronado Springs Resort in Orlando. To join us May 17 through 20, visit entreeleadership.comsummit or click the link in the show notes. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. If you like what you're hearing, please click the Follow button, the subscribe button. Leave a nice review, share the show with someone, tell them about it, or click the link and send it out and say, hey, guys, listen to this. We would appreciate you hanging out with us and always. You can go to entreleadership.com ask and leave your question and we'll try to get it answered for you here. It's what we do. Jackson is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Jackson. How are you?

[E]

I'm doing good, Dave. How are you?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[E]

Hey, man. So I lead a. I'm the regional leader for a coffee shop. We've got about 30 team members between our two locations. We did 2.8 million last year. So my question is I love my team. I want to keep developing them and helping them grow, but they all want more and more responsibility. But I feel like at some Point I'm just giving my job away. And so how do I help them develop and grow as leaders, but also not give too much of my own responsibility away?

[A]

What portion of your responsibility do you not want to give away?

[E]

So, I mean, it's just things to keep me at, you know, being able to work, you know, so, you know, I've already given away ordering and inventory and things of that nature. But it's things, you know, like corresponding with the community and making sure that we have a community event, you know, making sure, responding to emails and then also just some maintenance stuff, coordinating all that stuff rather than handing that off to other people. I'm kind of the catch all guy.

[A]

Okay, well, I mean, it occurs to me that some of that stuff is stuff that someone else could do. And you could be spending more and more of your time just developing the customer base and developing the. If you had more time on your hands, you'd spend more time on your team developing them. And if you had more time on your hands, you could spend more time on the customer. If you weren't dealing with maintenance issues, that's something that easily could be handed off. And so I think what you decide is what makes you important to the organization. And a few years ago I kind of ran into this, it was probably 20 something years ago and we were probably 10 or 15 million dollars, but it was still a similar size organization at that point. And I kind of ran into every little thing I was doing except the on air part. I was starting to give it away, I was starting to hand it off. Like, I'm gonna not do that anymore. You're gonna do that? I'm not doing that anymore. You're gonna do that? And then I'm investigating and making sure each of those things are doing, I'm following up on the maintenance, make sure the maintenance is done. But I'm not handling the day to day on it. I'm following up on the sales team and making sure that they're doing the stuff, but I'm not in there doing the sales and so on. But then at that point I felt like God was saying to me, and I've kind of used that ever since. Dave, you're as the leader, you need to work on new things, big things and broken things. And so when we have a new initiative, I come alongside that leader. Like if you were opening another store, you'd come along that store manager and spend some time there hand in glove. You know, you're standing there with, you're watching every single thing they're doing, you're micromanaging, you're training until they get the value system of the. You know, your core values and your operating procedures dialed in. They don't get to make this up. This is not an art form. We have several of these stores that are always already successful. You need to do it that way and you need to make sure they're doing it your way. That's a new thing. Okay. A broken thing is a store that's been mismanaged and the sales have gone down. You had to fire the manager to bring in a new manager. And you got to fix all the broken relationships with the customers, start hiring some people that are better and get the donkeys out of there that were in the place and get some thoroughbreds in there. So that's a broken thing. And a big thing would be if you had some kind of large initiative, which might be a community wide thing. There's nothing to say that you don't have your hands in all of these things you've handed off, but day to day, you're not in the technical parts of it. And what do you do best? What is it that only you can do from your position? And that's kind of how I came to that conclusion. I mean, I really do feel like God showed me that in my case. And I'm not sure that's for everybody, but I work on new things, I work on big things, and I work on broken things. And I'm very good at those three things. And then I also, as the CEO of Ramsey, I watch the budgets, I watch the, the key performance metrics, and I see what's going on with the different math items that are coming across my desk in the reports. And I can tell how the business is running. And as long as something's not broken, I let them do it. Because that means someone that I have trained or someone that either I trained them directly or I trained the person that trained the person is doing what they're supposed to be doing. It's working. So I need to leave it alone, Let it do it. That's what the purpose of leadership is, is to teach people how to do something and then get out of the way and let them do it, not just stand in their way all the time. So, yeah, you need to be handing off stuff and developing, figuring out how I can develop people because you're in a position to uniquely develop people like nobody else. So really, really, really good question. Jackson, I can tell you're a great young leader. I'm proud of you. Congratulations. Keep it up. Very, very good stuff, folks. Remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us on entree leadership.