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How Leaders Accidentally Reward Toxic Behavior

EntreLeadership

Mon Jan 12 2026

Summary

The EntreLeadership Podcast

Episode: How Leaders Accidentally Reward Toxic Behavior
Host: Dave Ramsey (Ramsey Network)
Date: January 12, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the critical role leaders play in cultivating workplace culture—especially how inaction or misplaced niceness can unintentionally reward toxic or complacent behaviors. Host Dave Ramsey draws from decades as a CEO, coaching live callers through real business and leadership issues. The show highlights the need for accountability, proactive leadership, clear standards, and the courage to address negativity or inertia within teams.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Addressing Complacency and Toxic Attitudes in Small Teams

Call with Samantha, Cleveland, OH (Retail Gun Shop Owner)

Situation:
Samantha and her husband own a gun shop facing declining team morale: complacency, lack of motivation, and negative attitudes affecting customer experience. Samantha, not naturally assertive, struggles to confront these issues firmly.
Dave’s Core Principles:
- Confrontation with Kindness and Clarity:
  Leaders must address issues directly and with compassion, but also with absolute clarity about consequences.
  
  “It’s your fault that it got here… cause you’ve allowed it and you knew better. And you did it in the name of being nice and trying to go, ‘Well, they’re good guys down deep.’ Yeah, I know, but they suck on the surface.” (Dave, 09:07)
- One-on-One Accountability Meetings:
  Dave advises Samantha to meet each employee individually, own up to her past leniency, and set new expectations:
  - Complaints and negativity are to be brought only to leadership, not gossiped among employees.
  - If the behavior continues, consequences are clear and immediate (i.e., termination).
  - Invite honest, constructive feedback on how leadership can improve, reinforcing the partnership aspect.
  “If you have a complaint, you have one place you can bring it, and that's to me. If you discuss it with the other two, I will fire you that day. Okay, I’m done. We’re not doing this anymore.” (Dave, 03:29)
The Bad Apple Effect:
Dave identifies the ‘bad apple’—the influential team member who enables or amplifies negativity—and presses that tolerating such a person can poison the whole culture, even if they’re technically skilled or well-liked by customers.
Real World Anecdotes:
- “All Hail Dorothy” Moment:
  Dave shares that, when he finally fired a key toxic team member, rather than backlash, his team was relieved and energized—the “Wizard of Oz” moment.
  
  “When I fired that person... everyone kneeled and said, ‘All hail Dorothy.’ They were not mad. They were mad it took me so long.” (Dave, 09:13)
- Payroll is an Investment:
  
  “He’s screwing up the entire payroll investment—this one guy, by being a butt... acting like he’s a 14 year old that didn’t get to sit at the right lunch table. Well, kiss my butt.” (Dave, 05:17)
Culture Must Be Contagious—Good or Bad:
- The leader sets the tone; what’s tolerated becomes the default standard. Letting bad behavior slide will scare off good employees and customers, damaging morale and profits.

2. Dealing with Turnover at the Leadership Level

Call with Ryan, Fort Worth, TX (Quick Service Restaurants)

Situation:
Ryan, an operator with 170 employees and $17 million in revenue, boasts lower-than-average turnover overall but still loses a key leader every six months. He feels constantly on defense.
Dave’s Framework:
- Good vs. Bad Turnover:
  - Good turnover: Leaders leave for positive personal reasons (e.g., relocation, parenting).
  - Bad turnover: They leave for better jobs or are fired.
  “We do keep a statistic internally—what we call good turnover and then bad turnover. Bad turnover is they quit to get a better job or we fired them. Good turnover is...they got married and move, or went on to be a full-time mom.” (Dave, 18:16)
- Building a Lasting Culture and Team:
  - Constantly clarify and reinforce core values and accountability.
  - Aim for “extreme trust” within the leadership circle.
  - See yourself as a coach (referencing Nick Saban), shaping multiple leaders—even those who ultimately leave.
  “You are Nick Saban in this case.” (Dave, 18:38)
- Pride in Developing Leaders:
  - Measure success not just by retention, but by impact and what former team members say about you.
  “You become known as the guy who teaches leadership at the roundtable... The 10 years I spent with Ryan changed and formed me as a man.” (Dave, 20:00)
- Minimize but Accept Inevitable Turnover:
  - Always work to improve retention, but don’t define your success solely by turnover rates, especially in high-churn industries.
  “…I wouldn’t stay up at night going, ‘I’m a failure’... You’re better than the industry average.” (Dave, 22:15)

3. Sustaining Motivation Beyond the “More, More, More” Trap

Question from Trevor, Raleigh, NC

Situation:
Trevor’s business just had a record year, but he’s already stressing about how to achieve even more and feeling the pressure to always outdo himself and his team.
Dave’s Perspective:
- Purpose-Driven Growth:
  Growth for its own sake quickly becomes empty and stressful. Reframe “more” as serving more people, not just hitting bigger numbers.
  
  “If more, more, more, is not about more, more, more, but is about helping more people, that has meaning.” (Dave, 27:15)
- Success as Service:
  
  “Greed is more, more, more. Service is make more people smile, make more people’s life better.” (Dave, 29:21)
- Longevity of Motivation:
  Purpose and service outlast profit as motivational forces for teams and leaders.

4. Leading Change from the Middle (Leading Up)

Call with Jeff, Oklahoma City (VP of Sales at a Manufacturing Company)

Situation:
Jeff, recently offered equity, is concerned: his 150-person, $30 million company hasn’t innovated in 15 years and is losing market share. Owners, in their 60s and 70s, seem unmotivated or resistant to change.
Dave’s Strategy:
- Acknowledge Reality:
  The business is vulnerable to disruption; without change, Jeff’s future equity could be worthless.
  
  “You’re rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, you know that, right?” (Dave, 35:30)
- Present the Facts, Not Emotional Appeals:
  Use customer feedback and industry data to persuade, not shame.
- The Only Tool is Persuasion:
  
  “You can’t force. The only thing, your only option is persuasion.” (Dave, 38:24) Offer to run a pilot innovation or new product project if given a team and budget.
- Honor First, Then Suggest:
  Approach owners with respect, emphasize their legacy, but express honest concern for long-term viability.
  
  “…continue to have a general conversation and honoring them with the opening sentence on every time. Honor, honor, honor, question, honor, question, question, question, honor, honor, question.” (Dave, 41:48)
- Succession and Legacy:
  Link innovation not just to survival, but to helping owners eventually step back with confidence.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

On Letting Culture Slide:

“It’s your fault that it got here… cause you’ve allowed it and you knew better. And you did it in the name of being nice…” (Dave, 09:07)
On Accountability:

“If you say, I’m going to fire you and you do this, then you have to fire them. And it’ll make a believer out of the other two…” (Dave, 05:10)
The “All Hail Dorothy” Story:

“When I fired that person...everyone kneeled and said, ‘All hail Dorothy.’ They were not mad. They were mad it took me so long.” (Dave, 09:13)
On Being Purpose-Driven:

“Service is make more people smile, make more people’s life better. And I’m not going to sleep until more people, their life is better.” (Dave, 29:21)
On Leading Up:

“You can’t make people that are unmotivated, especially an owner, suddenly become motivated. That’s the problem with the whole thing...so it’s a frustrating position. Leading up is probably one of the hardest kinds of leadership, but it is possible…” (Dave, 41:48)

Timestamp Guide to Major Segments

[00:57 – 11:00] Confronting toxic culture and accountability (Samantha’s call)
[11:00 – 14:00] “All hail Dorothy” anecdote, leadership impact on team morale
[15:33 – 25:28] Managing leadership and staff turnover, building a legacy (Ryan’s call)
[26:30 – 34:10] Breaking the cycle of “more, more, more,” sustainable motivation
[34:10 – 41:48] Leading change from mid-management, persuading owners to innovate (Jeff’s call)

Tone and Style

Dave Ramsey's approach is direct, relatable, and anchored in real-world business experiences. He mixes blunt truth-telling (“they suck on the surface”) with encouragement and humor (“All hail Dorothy”; “kiss my butt”), using anecdotes from his own leadership journey to drive points home. The tone is conversational, straight-shooting, and imbued with practical wisdom.

For New Listeners

This episode is a masterclass in leadership courage, accountability, and fostering a healthy team culture. Key themes:
- Leadership means not tolerating mediocrity or toxicity, no matter how uncomfortable it feels.
- Long-term motivation for businesses is grounded in service, not numbers.
- Leading “up” to owners or bosses requires persuasion, patience, and relentless focus on the greater good.
For anyone facing similar challenges—team negativity, high turnover, or stalling innovation—Dave delivers both concrete advice and a motivational call to action: lead with courage, set high standards, and never settle for a culture that doesn’t inspire.

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Transcript

A (0:10)

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is entree leadership, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. With over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches just like you. If you got a question you want to ask us on the show, fill out the form@entreeleadership.com ask or call and leave us a voicemail at 844-944-1070. That's 844-944-1071. Samantha is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Samantha, how are you?

B (0:47)

I'm great, Dave. How are you doing?

A (0:49)

Better than I deserve. What's up?

B (0:51)

It's such an honor and privilege to talk to you. So thank you so much for taking my call.

A (0:55)

My pleasure. How can I help?

B (0:57)

My husband and I own a retail gun shop here in northeast Ohio. We grossed about 1.5 million last year and we have five full time employees, including ourselves. Lately, the culture around here is just really going downhill. Complacency, lack of motivation, and just a general complaining attitude are really starting to affect our work and the overall customer experience. Starting to feel like my guys are just coming to the old job, like just another day. And I struggle because I'm not really overly outspoken and I tend to avoid confrontation. My question is, how can I be uplifting and motivating while still holding my team accountable so that we don't turn into your typical boring old gun shop?

A (1:45)

Okay, so there's two of you plus three team members.

B (1:49)

Correct. Okay, so small, small, small family team.

A (1:56)

Can you honestly tell me that one of them is the big problem and the other two are followers?

B (2:06)

Yes and no.

A (2:09)

You're too nice.

B (2:12)

I mean, so lately we have one that he really reflects the. The thing of the other two. And so if one person starts to call off a lot, then he starts to call off a lot. Or if someone's doing a lot of complaining, then it's kind of like a, I don't know, like a repeater, I guess.

A (2:34)

Yeah, but. So that one's not the problem. He's not the leader in the thing, but there's a leader in the clubhouse. So anyway, what I would do, it's a small team. You and your husband both work in the shop?

A (9:47)

They're scared. Let me tell you. They're scaring off. They're scaring off a newbie. Someone who's bought a bunch of guns is not scared of this guy, they'll just put up with him just because they want to buy the gun. But the other people that they. They get freaked out because they're like, well, this guy's. He's kind of a grouch. I don't know. And you're losing sales to it, and you're losing productivity of your largest line item in your P. And L called your payroll, so you've got to do something about it. And let me tell you, I went through this, and the first time I ever let someone go that I thought was a key, I thought the whole team was gonna be mad. I thought we were gonna lose everyone. When I fired this person, and the person was a jerk, and I put up with it in the name of, I'm Southern and you have to be nice, right? Well, I'm pissed off down inside, but I'm gonna be. Bless your heart, right? No, I put way too long. And finally, when I just said, that's enough, and we made the decision that they're not going to be here, I came in the next morning. I thought they were all going to be mad at me. But I always call it the wizard of Oz thing, the old wizard of Oz. You remember the old wizard of Oz when they. Dorothy, at the end of it, she's been captured by the flying monkeys, right? She's in the castle with the Wicked Witch of the west, and the Wicked Witch of the west catches the broom, catches on fire. Dorothy grabs a mop bucket and throws it, accidentally splashes the Wicked Witch of the west and melts her and kills her. Remember this? And she goes like, what a world. What a world. And goes through the trap door in the dry ice, right? You remember all this, right? And there's the hat sitting there. And the Wicked Witch had these soldiers that were like Oompa Loompas, like, with puffy things and curved swords and all this stuff. You remember this? And they're all standing there going, remember that? And so they're all standing around and. And there's this pregnant moment every time I watch the show, even as an adult now, when the Wicked Witch goes through the floor, Dorothy has killed the soldier's boss. Are they going to turn on her with those curved swords? Instead, they kneel and they say, all hail Dorothy. When I fired that person, that was the bad apple, and I walked in the next morning, everyone kneeled and said, all hail Dorothy. They were not mad. They were mad. It took me so long. They were not mad at all. They were happy that someone in leadership finally had A backbone and got rid of the freaking grouch. And now we don't have to listen to him all day long. Nobody wants to work with that crap, but people put up with it because leadership puts up with it. And so I'm gonna talk to them nice, and then I'm gonna talk to them a little tougher, and then I'm gonna fire them. And that's what we do at Ramsey. And people come in here. The other day, I was walking through here with a bunch of guys from New York, and they're all, you know, New York. And so they're walking through this place, and we got 1100 people in here. They go, this is the happiest place. All these people are working and smiling and happy, and you have the nicest people. And I said, yeah, we get rid of the other ones. That's how that happens. And that's what you're facing, Samantha. That's what you're facing. So, you know, just be all hail, Dorothy. That's all you got to remember. And then you'll be. When you take the step, people appreciate leadership. Doing the right thing for the right reasons with kindness and firmness. All hail, Samantha. That's how we do it, baby. Proud of you, Samantha. Love your business. Keep it up, kiddo. Keep it up. You got a great business. Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family, and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic, and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further, automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster. You're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And, yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule a time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite. Your business can only grow as much as you do. That's why you gotta grab the free Entree leadership Reading guide. We've packed 116 of my favorite best leadership and business books ever written. These are books that shaped me into the leader I am today. They'll give you better advice than most college courses because they come straight from real leaders who've been in the trenches, made mistakes, and figured out what works and what doesn't. You'll find top book recommendations from New York Times bestselling authors like John Maxwell, James Clear, and Vanessa Van Edwards, along with life changing books from authors you probably never even heard of. This reading guide is a must if you're serious about growing your business and Leadership. Go to entreeleadership.com ReadingGuide and get access today. By the way, it's free entreeleadership.com Readingguide or you can click the note. Click the link in the show notes. Ryan is in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Ryan, what's up?

A (18:16)

Yeah, we do keep a statistic internally, what we call good turnover and then bad turnover. Bad turnover is they quit to get a better job or we fired them. Okay. Good turnover is, you know, they got pregnant with their second child and they do all the Ramsey stuff, so they're out of debt. So they went on to be a full time mom and they're able to because we taught them how. And so that's good turnover or good turnover is I lost a lady the other day, been with me 15 years. She got married and no kidding, the guy lives in Oklahoma. So they went to Oklahoma because she ought to live with her husband when that's kind of cool. So, you know, so that's how that works. But yeah, that's good turnover. I don't count that as we're doing something wrong. That's just life. So you only had a couple that are, you know, in the last couple years, you don't have a lot of leadership turnover. It might be the age group that you're hiring. The younger they are, you know, the more family changes they've got, getting married, having kids and so forth, the more you're going to have a demographic push to push them out. So you're going to have some of that. Like we've got a real young crew here. Average age in the building is probably under 30 right now. And so we get some turnover just due to that. That hasn't got anything to do with Ramsey, did something wrong or we're missing something. So anyway, I think what I would do is I'm going to put a series of values and principles around the leadership table that we're functioning on and make sure that we all are adhering to those core values and we're all holding each other accountable to those. And the leadership team has developed extreme trust. Go through Lynn Cioni's book, Seven Dysfunctions of a Team, make sure that the team's not functioning in any of Those dysfunctions and constantly be teaching, teaching, teaching leadership to your leaders when they leave. Just think, I'm Nick Saban. And now that coach is able to go coach and be Kirby Smart at Georgia who used to work for Nick Saban and just take some pride in the fact that they're going to go be successful because of they had the pleasure of working on your leadership team and what you instilled in them while they were there. You are Nick Saban in this case. Okay? There's a lot of coaches have been birthed out of the Saban dynasty, a lot of winning coaches. And so there's a pride you can take in that. Even though it didn't benefit Nick Saban, except that he just influenced these men who become world class coaches themselves. And so, you know, you could take some pride in that. An example on the front line on that would be the folks at Chick Fil A. They don't expect the teenager in high school that's working their front counter to work there for 25 years on average. So they take great pride in what they instill into that teenager in training and in values while they're working there. And so then teenagers want to come to work there even though they know it's not a career move. But what they're getting poured into them while they're there is of great value. And so it becomes a very attractive hiring model because you become known as the guy who teaches leadership at the roundtable. You become known as the guy who lifts up the teenager and teaches them values and hard work in a world that is so confused and screwed up that they don't even know how to navigate. And so, you know, you can be that guy, but the part of that is, you know, I had Entree Leadership Master series a few weeks ago, a few months ago now over in Texas where you are. And I had two former team members running businesses in the audience learning leadership from us and paid to come to our event. And they used to work here. And so I just had to go, I'm Nick Saban, you know, Cause they're both friends, they're both good guys. They both left to open their own thing when they left here using what I taught them. But I lost them. And all I get for that is I get the satisfaction of being Nick Saban, you know, in that case, right. And they're two, they're studs. Both of them are great guys. And I gave them both a hug when I saw them in the audience, you know, so that kind of thing. But that's the only thing you can do is just go, I'm doing the right thing. And then what that does is it spreads beyond just that singular transaction and becomes a cultural icon to. To where it becomes very attractive to come to work for Ryan. Cause he's the guy you want to work for if you want to learn leadership. The 10 years I spent with Ryan changed and formed me as a man. It changed me spiritually, made me a better husband, it made me a better wife. It did this. And the guys, when people start telling people that about having worked for you, that sends a message out into the community that people want to work for. Then because you're a stud, you're a great leader at that point. But it is a long play and it's your only play. The second part of your question is, do I just get used to and tolerate the high turnover? And that would be with the rest of the team, obviously, because you're not got a high turnover with your leadership. Now. I'm going to get used to it, but I'm not going to acquiesce to it. I'm going to constantly putting pressure. How can I minimize this? How can I minimize this? Because I am convinced that turnover costs you tons of money in any business, even in a high turnover industry like you're in. So it's very expensive to rehire and retrain. They don't do anything for the first three weeks and you're on payroll because they're just learning how to walk across the floor properly. My God, it's ridiculous. And so you just don't get much out of folk for the first few minutes they're with you. So hiring, training, recruiting, it's all just dead money. So I want to minimize that as much as I can by minimizing turnover as much as I can. But then there's also a part of it that goes, hey, I got teenagers on the front thing and they're high schoolers and they're probably not going to be here come summer or come winter when they go back to school or whatever it is. And so that's just part of the model. Or I've got to hire old people at the front counter instead of teenagers or whatever it is. I don't know. But what can I do to minimize it or to work back against? I'm going to constantly be tuning the engine even though I know it's only going to produce so much horsepower. I wouldn't just give up on it, but also wouldn't stay up at night going, I'm A failure. You're not. You're better than the industry average. And I'm going to continue to work to get better, but I'm also not going to lose sleep over it. And that's where I would drop all of that off. You're a good man. These are really solid questions, man. You're really thinking about this and you're doing a good job. 17 million out of two stores. Pretty strong. Well done, buddy. Well done.

A (26:30)

Question of the Day from Trevor in Raleigh, North Carolina. Dave, my business just crushed every goal we set. Best sales year ever, biggest profit we've ever seen. But instead of enjoying it, I'm already stressed out about how to top it. I feel like I've created a monster. The team expects bigger every year and I do too. How do you break that more, more and more cycle before it eats you alive? Hmm. More and more and more has to be about something other than just more, more, more. If it's only about more, more, more, it's going to eat you alive. If it's winning, just for winning sake, if it's a bigger number, but it's not tied to something. And so an example is, you know, when you run a business that is going up in sales, most likely 90 something percent of the time, you are making your customers very happy or your sales wouldn't be going up. There's a percentage, a small Percentage, you're screwing people. But that doesn't last. That's not sustainable. Right. But most of the time, when you make a profit, Ken Blanchard says, profit is the applause that your customers give you. So when your sales go up, it means your customers are saying, good job, good job, good job. And so if you're selling something that's helpful, which I assume you are in some way, and it's helping them in some way doing something, then I want to sell more of it and help more people. And so if more, more, more is not about more, more, more, but is about helping more people, that has meaning. And so we want to, you know, we set some lofty goals for our budgeting app that we've just converted into a full financial app. It's got all these extra features now. It's called everydollar. And we've just set some really lofty goals on it. Not because it's not already huge. It's massive. It's tens of millions of people using the thing every day. It's massive. But it's helping people. People are getting out of debt. They're paying off their homes. They're writing us letters that their marriage is being healed, working together on the EveryDollar app, and they're having good communication. We're getting all kinds of positive. Customers are saying, way to go, way to go, way to go. So when we set goals for everydollar, it's not just about, oh, we've got to beat last year. No, it's like, we want to help more people so that each time we increase a sale, it means someone's been helped and they're smiling and you are, too. And so make more people smile is different than more, more, more. Make more people's life better is better than just more, more, more. One has a tinge of greed. One has a tinge of service. Greed is more, more, more. Service is make more people smile, make more people's life better. And I'm not going to sleep until more people, their life is better. And so we want to do a better job of this podcast. So more of you run a better business and you serve your team better and your customers better because I was here and because this podcast came on and because we did a good job. So we want more, more, more. But it's not just that. We want to get an award from some podcast thingy. I got plenty of those, but that's okay. But really, they really don't matter at the end of the day. What does matter is when I walk up to somebody on the street, they go, hey, man, you helped me with my business and that matters. That's helpful. And so I do want more of that. More, more, more. Bring it, baby. So I think if you take it to an act of service, transfer it from just, we want more money or we want bigger numbers, which are kind of vague. That feels like on the greed side. And take it over to the service side of, hey, our customers are standing over there waiting on us. We gotta get to them, we gotta help them. They don't even know we exist yet, and they're already our customer. We gotta go find them and get them and make them a customer and that. Because they need our help. I mean, you know how many people in America are broke right now and need this? Every dollar app. All of them. All of them. I mean, so, I mean, we got a lot of work to do. Me and Jenny Craig, we got a lot of work to do, right? I mean, there's broke people everywhere. You know, think about. Oh, man, if you start thinking about it in that, then that'll keep you working when you don't need money anymore, which, by the way, which is why I work for the past 20 years, I haven't needed money in a long time. I work because I want more and more and more service. More and more people, lives changed. More and more and more people meeting Jesus. More and more and more people having a whole different look on the way they run their business and treat their team. And that gets me up. More money. You can get some more money. That's all right, but that doesn't drive it. So, yeah, I think when you. The good news is that we have an infinite market. We're not like a football team where once you've won the World Series or once you've won the super bowl five times, it kind of gets boring, I guess. I don't know. Never happened to me. But, you know, that's more, more, more, Right? So, but, and so what do you. How are you going to get that team up to go do it again after they've done it five times or whatever? Right. So that's different. Thank God. But I mean, but if you've never won the super bowl or you've never won the World Series. More, more, more. That's enough to get you going. But again, service and let's do something. Let's. Let's do it for the guy who's never gotten a ring and he's been in the business forever and the guy who's never said, you know, he's getting ready to. Rick the hockey player broke Gretzky's record months ago, you know, and 900 goals. You know, I'd love to have been on the team that was on the ice helping that guy set the all time scoring record in the NHL. That, that's a cool thing, but that has nothing to do with more more more. That's like this guy deserves it. He's iconic, right? And so that, that's perfect. So anyway, yeah, that, I think it's down to your core spiritual motivation. What's driving the more more more will change whether or not you can stay motivated with it over time. That's my best guess anyway. If you're working 60 to 70 hours a week just to keep your business running, you're headed for burnout. The only way to grow without running on empty is to stop working in your business and start working on your business. And that takes advice and accountability from people who actually make payroll. That's why you need to join an advisory group. You'll get a coach and a circle of business owners like you who will help you stay focused and grow without sacrificing your nights and weekends. Find out if advisory groups are right for you@entreeleadership.com advisory groups or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Hey guys, if you want to help us out, consider following the show or clicking the subscribe button or the share button. Or cut out the little linky and send it to your friend on email and go, this guy's crazy. You gotta listen to this. I don't care anyway. You can spread the word for us. We appreciate you spreading the word. You can leave that five star review. That's helpful. Mama said, if you ain't got nothing nice, don't say nothing at all. I don't know what you're trolling for. Just go somewhere else. But anyway, come on, help us. Help us by sharing, subscribing, following. It's a big deal. Always remember, you can get on the show by calling us at 844-944-1070. That's 844-944-1090. Jeff is in Oklahoma City. Hey, Jeff, what's up?

A (38:24)

No, no, you can't force. The only thing, your only option is persuasion. Hmm. It depends on how imminent you think that this is going to affect you personally. In other words, if you think this thing's going to fold up like a Walmart tent in the next five years, if these jokers don't get their crap together, then you might as well light a fire and let's just see if we can get some stuff burning. Right. But if you think this is a slow burn and we got 20 years, we're just going to go down, down, down, down for 20 years, and you're going to be okay. Five or six. And you're okay with that? It's a hard pill to swallow, but you take a less aggressive approach, depending on how much of a panic there is about this. So in other words, you could go in there and say, guys, if it's an ultimatum, look, I'm your VP of sales. I'm telling you, if we don't do some stuff, we're going to lose significant market share and we're going to be gone before you're dead. And I don't think that's honoring to you. You've worked too hard to get to here, and I really want to be a part of the solution and help you help me help you. And that's being A very aggressive stance. Then the less aggressive stance is, guys, I really am excited about trying this. Can you please authorize a project for me to try this part of this thing and let's try a test market on this thing. And instead of it getting set to the side, you take it and run with it. But get permission and go. Because I, you know, you guys have built such a wonderful strong business here, but I lay awake night. I worry about our future if we don't iterate, if we don't add some new ideas, some new innovation to this. And I don't think we have to change the whole thing. You built it too strong for that. But I do think we need to constantly be trying new things because that's how you got here and we haven't tried anything new in a long time. Would you authorize me to, in addition to my existing workload, I'll take on this other project and give me a budget and a team to help try this new project. You got 150 team members, right. So give me a team of five and let me work on this for 60 days and let's see what we can get. I don't know what you're in or exactly what you're facing, but something like that where you just go do it for them with their permission. But you're gonna have to have their authorization to use the manpower and the money.