The EntreLeadership Podcast

Episode: Is It Okay to Go Into Debt for This?
Host: Dave Ramsey (Ramsey Network)
Date: August 25, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey responds to real-world business and leadership questions from entrepreneurs. The central theme is responsible growth and decision-making in business, with a particular focus on whether it’s appropriate to take on debt for business expansion, buying real estate, and hiring. Dave’s signature debt-averse philosophy anchors the advice, alongside real-life anecdotes from his decades of leading Ramsey Solutions. The show also explores building family businesses, succession planning, and managing team conflict for a healthy culture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Buying Commercial Property vs. Leasing (Caller: John, Austin, TX)

• Scenario: John owns a fabrication company with 14 employees and $3.5M annual revenue but is outgrowing his leased workspace.
• Question: When does it make sense to buy a commercial property rather than lease, especially if paying cash isn't possible right now?
• Dave’s Core Points (01:25–06:39):
  • Cash-Only Purchase: Dave insists on buying real estate with cash only, warning against business debt.
    • “At the point you can pay cash, which I’m guessing you can’t.” (01:25, Dave Ramsey)
  • Real Estate as a Second Business: Owning business property pulls you into the real estate business—beware of it dictating your business moves.
    • “When you start buying real estate that your business is operating in, you’re now in two businesses, the real estate business and the business that you’re in...” (01:35)
  • Future-Proofing: As you grow, you risk outgrowing your new space, leading to potential conflict between your business and its real estate.
    • “Too often we fit our business to our real estate instead of our real estate to our business once we own the building.” (06:17)
  • Alternative Strategy: Lease with an option to buy, or keep leasing to maintain flexibility while saving toward a purchase.
    • “If I’m you, I’m gonna go in and try to do some kind of a five year lease with an option to purchase if you want to move now.” (05:43)
  • Bottom Line: “Owning the real estate is not your goal. Your goal is profit.” (06:34)

Notable Quote

• “Be very careful that the real estate does not become the tail that wags the dog.” (06:18, Dave Ramsey)

2. Building a Family Business for the Next Generation (Caller: Jonathan, Kansas City)

• Scenario: Jonathan runs a residential construction business (~$1M yearly) and wants to build a company his kids will one day want to work in.
• Question: How do you make your business appealing for your children to join, if that fits their aspirations?
• Dave’s Core Points (10:13–17:50):
  • Impressions Matter: Children’s view of the business is shaped by how it affects family life and their parent’s well-being.
    • “If their dad comes home frustrated and angry and cussing every night, who would want to be part of that?” (10:20)
  • Match Roles to Wiring: Encourage kids to pursue roles that suit their natural bent and calling, not force them into the business.
    • “If the kid is wired in such a way that they need to be an artist, then they don’t need to be running a construction company, right?” (12:18)
  • Family Health = Business Health: Dysfunctional families yield dysfunctional businesses.
    • “A dysfunctional family will 100% of the time create a dysfunctional family business.” (13:44)
  • Succession Planning: Start planning early, even if the plan is to sell; think through legacy and roles from the outset.
    • “You can’t start your succession thinking and planning too early. It’s impossible to start it too early…” (17:55)

Memorable Moment

• Dave shares how his own children found their places:
  • “Rachel was on stage doing stuff at 15 years old... Daniel has always been entrepreneurial, but he’s also always had this streak that he wasn’t going to be... a completely wired personality style, different than me.” (15:30–16:47)

3. Handling Team Conflict and Healthy Culture (Written Question: Jason, Michigan)

• Question: How does a leader know when to step into team conflict versus let the team resolve it, and how do you keep the culture healthy?
• Dave’s Core Points (18:32–25:42):
  • Idea Conflict is Good; Personal Attacks Are Not: Healthy teams argue ideas, not character or dignity.
    • “Arguments are invited—as long as we’re arguing about which play to call to get the touchdown… Conflict that is personal… that’s another problem.” (18:46)
  • When to Intervene: Step in if conflicts are personal, character-based, or if emotional maturity is lacking.
    • “If two of our team members are going at it on a personal level, then we have to sit down and intervene…” (19:20)
  • Clear Cultural Standards: If someone can’t work with another for personal reasons (not performance or integrity), that’s not acceptable.
    • “I just can’t work with him means you can’t work here, not him...” (20:00)
  • Managing Generational/Style Differences: Embrace and respect different styles and generational perspectives—learn from each other.
    • “I can learn a lot from them, they can learn a lot from me…” (24:00–24:35)

Notable Quote

• “The culture is strong when things get messy if we come out of it respecting each other more, even if we don’t completely like the approach.” (22:48, Dave Ramsey)

4. Hiring and Growth While in Debt (Caller: Andrew, Albuquerque, NM)

• Scenario: Andrew co-owns a growing machine shop ($2M+ revenue), but is $1.6M in debt and finds it tough to hire skilled workers as wages rise.
• Question: How to add skilled workers and pay off debt without losing momentum?
• Dave’s Core Points (32:10–36:50):
  • ROI-Driven Hiring: Only hire if the role can justify itself financially at market wages.
    • “Can we be profitable paying market or slightly above market wages for that position? Does that position ROI?” (33:37)
  • Wages Tie to Pricing: Rising wages must be matched with pricing strategies—labor is always baked into your product price.
    • “Wages are built into product price 100% of the time.” (34:02)
  • Referral-Based Recruiting: Use current excellent employees to recruit others (offer referral bounties); skilled workers know each other in the industry.
    • “I would pay them a bounty... I want some more that look just like you and I’ll pay you a thousand bucks...” (35:05)
  • Company Reputation Matters: A solid, non-toxic work environment is attractive to skilled workers—build a place where good people want to work.

Memorable Moment

• “Thoroughbreds attract thoroughbreds and hang out with thoroughbreds and know other thoroughbreds. They also know what a donkey looks like and they’ll tell you to stay away from them.” (35:18, Dave Ramsey)

Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Question | Key Points | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:51–06:39| Buying vs. Leasing, Business Real Estate (John, Austin) | Buy with cash only, avoid letting real estate trap business growth | | 09:35–17:50| Building an Appealing Family Business (Jonathan, KC) | Children’s fit, family health, early succession planning | | 18:32–25:42| Handling Team Conflict & Culture (Jason, MI) | Healthy disagreement, when to intervene, cultural standards | | 31:37–36:50| Hiring While in Debt (Andrew, Albuquerque) | ROI-based hiring, referral rewards, matching wages to price |

Notable Quotes

• On debt and expansion:
  “No, I would not buy on debt ever.”
  (06:28, Dave Ramsey)

• On building family business:
  “A dysfunctional family will 100% of the time create a dysfunctional family business.”
  (13:44, Dave Ramsey)

• On healthy conflict:
  “Arguments are invited—as long as we’re arguing about which play to call to get the touchdown… Conflict that is personal… that’s another problem.”
  (18:46, Dave Ramsey)

• On referral-based hiring:
  “Thoroughbreds attract thoroughbreds and hang out with thoroughbreds and know other thoroughbreds. They also know what a donkey looks like and they’ll tell you to stay away from them.”
  (35:18, Dave Ramsey)

Conclusion

This episode encapsulates Dave Ramsey’s core business advice: make bold moves cautiously, never get trapped by debt, and put people—family, staff, and culture—at the center of your decisions. Business real estate should serve business needs, not vice versa. Family business succession, team dynamics, and workforce recruitment all stem from character and intentionality. With actionable strategies and Dave’s candid tone, this episode is a must-listen for any small business leader.