Is Partnering With My Uncle Going to Be a Problem?

Summary

The EntreLeadership Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Is Partnering With My Uncle Going to Be a Problem?
Host: Dave Ramsey, Ramsey Network
Date: February 25, 2026
Theme: Real-world coaching for business owners facing challenges in growth, succession, debt management, accountability, and small team management.

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Episode Overview

This episode features calls from business owners wrestling with complex leadership, financial, and operational questions. Dave Ramsey delivers practical, direct advice on succession planning in a family business, managing business debt versus growth, diagnosing team accountability issues, and handling staffing gaps in small companies. Across all calls, Dave stays true to his hallmark style: straightforward, no-nonsense, with a focus on clarity, culture, and high standards.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. Family Succession and Partnership Dynamics

[00:51 - 06:00] | Caller: Lane from Austin, TX

• Scenario:
  Lane, 34, is about to inherit his father’s half of a debt-free, successful equipment rental business (~$2.5M income, $600K profit in 2024). The other owner is his uncle (57), who is only working part-time. Lane asks when and how he should approach his uncle about selling his share.

• Dave’s Advice:

  • Approach the uncle openly and respectfully, start a dialogue without pressure.
  • Quote:

    “What you and dad have built here is incredible… I would appreciate it as your soon-to-be partner if we could talk about what your plan is and how I can help and how I can be part of that plan.” – Dave Ramsey [03:56]

  • Don’t push for a timeline; express interest in being part of the uncle’s thought process.
  • Recognize that the uncle’s “I’ll work until I die” attitude is common but unhelpful for planning succession.
  • Address fairness: mutually agree on work expectation and compensation, especially as Lane works full-time.
  • Maintain ongoing conversations—don’t try to resolve everything at once.
  • Consider involving Lane’s dad, leveraging family dynamics to help facilitate hard discussions.
  • Notable Advice:

    “No transition plan is a bad one, especially 50/50. That’s dangerous.” – Dave Ramsey [05:56]

Memorable Moment:

Dave jokes about generational attitudes and pokes fun at “working until you die,” providing some comic relief while stressing the urgency of a documented, mutual transition plan.

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2. Managing Debt in a Growing Business

[12:02 - 16:02] | Caller: John from Toledo

• Scenario:
  John, CEO of a company (23 employees, $9.3M revenue), asks whether debt can be managed wisely in a capital-intensive, fast-growing business—especially with the potential for buyers who could clear that debt via acquisition.

• Dave’s Core Philosophy:

  • Strongly advocates for operating debt-free for long-term stability and resilience.
  • Warns against the illusion of stability created by debt; it increases risk and makes a business less attractive to smart buyers.
  • Quote:

    “Debt doesn’t help a high value buyer. Debt hurts. It and debt hurts your stability and your growth, as well.” – Dave Ramsey [12:39]

• Key Points:

  • Growth fueled by debt is artificial and makes you vulnerable if large clients or markets shift.
  • Any buyer who ignores debt when evaluating an acquisition is "naive."
  • Use cash to purchase equipment—prioritize ROI and reduce risk of insolvency if a large customer defaults.
  • Personal Example: Dave shares a story about turning down a $10M co-branded order with a major retailer due to an untenable risk of product returns—a lesson on never taking on disproportionate risk, even if it means missing huge sales.
  • Quote:

    “They squash you like last week’s roach and not think anything about it. It’s not that I’m cynical, it’s just that I’m cynical.” – Dave Ramsey [22:10]

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3. Diagnosing Team and Systems Failures

[24:14 - 34:55] | Caller: Ben from Hartford, CT

• Scenario:
  Ben runs a 14-person home services business struggling with missed appointments, slow follow-ups, and finger-pointing.

• Dave’s Framework for Accountability:

  • Gather the team, set clear expectations, and communicate that continued mistakes signal “you don’t want to be here.”
  • Require collective responsibility—focus on solutions, not blame.
  • Quote:

    “As of right now, without throwing somebody under the bus, what do you think we need to do to make sure that there’s not any missed appointments? … You’re not running something big enough that you can’t watch all three of these things very intensely with your hands up to your elbows down in the business.” – Dave Ramsey [25:30]

  • Identify and fix systems problems (software, processes), but reinforce the necessity of personal responsibility.
  • “We value communication.” Weekly meetings, one-on-ones, and strict standards.
  • Map out SOPs for follow-ups: e.g., “All customer emails and phone calls are answered within 24 hours.”
  • Be willing to let go of team members who aren’t “a we” in the company standard.
  • Quote:

    “Miscommunication usually in this situation falls under the heading of I don’t give a crap. And if you don’t give a crap, you don’t get to work here. Cause we all care.” – Dave Ramsey [28:39]

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4. Staffing Resilience in Small Teams

[34:55 - 45:58] | Caller: Jeff from Lincoln, NE

• Scenario:
  Jeff owns an equipment dealership with 5 staff, $8M+ sales, and experiences “perfect storm” days once a quarter when all staff are out—leaving him alone, overwhelmed, and stressed.

• Dave’s View:

  • This frequency is “untenable”—need to reset expectations for attendance and personal accountability.
  • Occasional, genuine emergencies are granted grace; regular absenteeism due to personal issues is unsustainable.
  • The “self-employed mentality”: everyone must step up, especially in small businesses.
  • Quote:

    “Your lack of planning at home does not constitute a crisis on my part.” – Dave Ramsey [39:33]

  • Managers should call staff in to cover during emergencies, with flexibility for make-up days if necessary.
  • Confront team members candidly; if the culture doesn’t improve, consider replacement.
  • Evaluate the need for an additional staff member if volume justifies it—but stress mentality over pure headcount.
  • Quote:

    “Everything’s your job when you work for a small business. We all lift boxes, we all answer the phone, we all show up and take orders sometimes.” – Dave Ramsey [43:04]

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Highlights & Notable Quotes

• Succession Planning:
  “What’s your dream for this half of the business? Because I’m very interested in it.” – Dave Ramsey [04:42]

• On Transition Planning:
  “No transition plan is a bad one, especially 50/50. That’s dangerous.” – Dave Ramsey [05:56]

• On Debt in Business:
  “Debt doesn’t help a high value buyer. Debt hurts. It and debt hurts your stability and your growth, as well.” – Dave Ramsey [12:39]

• On Customer Risk:
  “They squash you like last week’s roach and not think anything about it. It’s not that I’m cynical, it’s just that I’m cynical.” – Dave Ramsey [22:10]

• Accountability & Team Culture:
  “Miscommunication usually in this situation falls under the heading of I don’t give a crap. And if you don’t give a crap, you don’t get to work here.” – Dave Ramsey [28:39]

• Small Business Reality:
  “Everything’s your job when you work for a small business. … We all gotta care deeply or this place isn’t gonna be here to write you a check.” – Dave Ramsey [43:04]

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Major Episode Takeaways

• Have direct, ongoing, and open conversations—especially with family in business.
• Operate debt-free whenever possible to maximize resilience and flexibility.
• Set and enforce a high standard of accountability and communication.
• In small businesses, everyone must adopt a “self-employed” mentality for the team to succeed.
• When cultural or systemic problems persist, courageous leadership and sometimes tough choices are required.

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For more advice and resources, visit the official podcast page.

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Timestamps Overview:

• Family Partnership & Succession: [00:51–06:00]
• Managing Business Debt: [12:02–16:02]
• Fixing Accountability Issues: [24:14–34:55]
• Small Team Staffing Challenges: [34:55–45:58]

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Transcript

[A]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is entree leadership where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you have a question you want to ask on the show, fill out the form on entreeleadership.com ask or call and leave a voicemail at 8449-4410-7084-4944. 1070. Lane is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Lane, how are you doing?

[B]

Great. How are you, Dave?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

Hey, Dave, I just got a quick question about our family business. I'm the general manager of our family owned equipment rental company. It's owned by my father and my uncle and they've done a phenomenal job. They're completely debt free. Our annual income is about 2.5 for 2024 with about 600,000 profit and about 2 million in 2025 with about 400,000 profit. My father starting his later phase of his succession plan. And as I'm his only son, the plan is to pass the business down to myself. My question is, how do I know it's the right time to ask my uncle if he's ready to sell his half of the business?

[A]

Your dad is. You're buying your dad's portion or you are you being given it?

[B]

No, sir, I'm being given it.

[A]

Awesome. Very cool. How old are you?

[B]

I am 34.

[A]

How old is your dad?

[B]

My dad is 64.

[A]

How old is your uncle?

[B]

That's a great question. I believe he is about 57.

[A]

Ah, okay. How's your relationship with your uncle? He's still active in the business?

[B]

Partly. He works about part time. I mean, really. I mean, he was working about a half a year in reality, probably.

[A]

Okay. All right. You're going to be partners with your uncle soon?

[B]

Yes, sir, that is correct.

[A]

Okay, all right, good. All right. And he knows this is going on?

[B]

Yes, sir. Yeah, that's. That's been pretty well the plan from the beginning whenever I came to work for him.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, well, I don't know why it would be awkward to talk to him about it tomorrow. I mean, you know, and just approaching this is like open handed. Not demanding or anything, but say, you know, I'm walking into this half ownership with you. You and I are getting ready to be partners. And you're only 57. Where dad's 64, he's on his way out. You're working about Half time, Unk. And so, I mean, I want to learn about what your plan is for your half and can I buy it and when you're ready. And what are you thinking? What's your timeline? Are you thinking 10 years? Are you thinking 10 months or are you think 10 days? I don't know what you're thinking. And I just want to let you know I'd like to be in the conversation with you and being included in the thought pattern. What. What's your thoughts? And just ask him. No pressure, but just, you know, trying to figure out, you know, I'm sure he's thought about it.

[B]

More than likely. Yes, sir.

[A]

If he hadn't, something's wrong. I mean, not. He's probably not planning. Honestly, if he's not brought it up, he's probably not planning anything soon.

[B]

Yeah, and I don't think he. I don't think he is anytime soon or anything like that.

[A]

He's probably thinking he's going to work to 65, isn't he?

[B]

Probably. He might go, I want to work for forever. I don't know. He's a. He's a go getter.

[A]

Except for that part where he works half a year.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Okay. He was a go getter, but now he's a slowed down go getter. Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean, and always honor that generation and just say what you told me when you opened up the call would be a great way to open up the conversation. What you and dad have built here is incredible. And I've always admired you as a go getter. These are all factual statements. And so I don't know how your mind is working about this, but I would appreciated as your soon to be partner if we could talk about what your plan is and how I can help and how I can be part of that plan whenever it is. I'm not trying to push you out. I'm just trying to communicate and find out what's rumbling around between your two ears up there, you know, I mean, what are you thinking? And he may have a lot of thoughts on it, but I would just, you know, no pressure, not trying to throw my weight around. I'm doing this from a position of honor. You and dad are great. You're a go getter, all that stuff. And I'm not in a hurry. Nothing like that. There's nothing on fire. I don't see any big problems. There's no ultimatum. None of that in your body language or your tone or anything. Just very open handed. But just, hey, how can I Help you live your dreams. And what is your dream for this half of the business? Because I'm very interested in it. When you're ready. What would he do if you said that?

[B]

I don't really know, honestly. So we've. We've kind of had a. I mean, we've had a few conversations about it. And, I mean, that's all right. Where I got. I'm gonna work till I die. You know, he did say that. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna work till I die.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Mentality, and I don't know what to pray for.

[A]

No, I'm kidding. Oh, man.

[B]

Yeah, that was. That's mainly my. My big thing is. Is going about it. I mean, if. And if he didn't want to sell, I mean, just, I guess, assessing that with pay structure, you know, going through that and saying, hey, you're working half a year, I'm working a whole year.

[A]

Yeah. And are you guys going to be 50, 50 at that point?

[B]

Yes, sir. Yeah, we would be 50. 50.

[A]

Yeah. And it is fair that we both work the same number of hours for the same number of profit points. Right. That's not unfair discussion for two partners to have. And, you know, if you want to work till you die, that's fine. Okay. What do you. What do you plan to do when you die? Yep. And. And how you feeling? I'm kidding. I can't resist. That's just. That's such an underhand pitch. I'm just. I would want to mess with him for sure, but the. My family's kind of sick that way, so we would have these bad jokes, but, yeah, it's not funny for some families. That wouldn't be. I wouldn't go over well. But anyway, the. Yeah, I. Yeah, like I say around here, I'm going to work until I don't make sense anymore. And one of mine will look at me and say, what you mean by that? Like, I'm already not making sense. They're messing with me. So anyway, so, yeah. Yeah, I would try over time, little bits at a time, just try to start having a breakfast with him once every two weeks and just build a relationship to where he'll start to want to share with you and he'll start to want good things for you, and he'll start to think, how can I, you know, hand this over and say, I'm more than willing to purchase this when you want me to. Do you want me to purchase it from your family after you're gone? Or can we arrange that in the documentation? If you want to work till you die or what is it? But you don't have to cram all that up in one conversation. But I just, I'd keep an ongoing dialogue, build a relationship. He's going to be your partner and then you can solve for. You can solve for who's working and who's on what pay scale and all that kind of stuff. And then just start talking about how this transitions. Because no transition plan is a bad one, especially 50. 50, that's dangerous. The other thing you could do is you could involve your dad, he's the older brother, and ask your dad to get his little brother to come up with a freaking schedule. Okay. I mean, or at least give us some kind of indication like I'm just gonna work till I drop. That's, that's just bull red. That's redneck bull crap. Okay? You're not either. So what is, what are you really gonna do? Or if you do drop the what am I gonna do with your widow or my cousin Eddie who's crazy and now I gotta deal with him. I mean, your dad can help with some of that as the older brother and ask him to help you facilitate that conversation. Matter of fact, he might even help you facilitate the conversation on the working half the time and getting paid for a full time thing. That might be okay for him to do as he's heading out the door because he's in the position of older brother. And I would imagine that pecking order still probably carries at least some weight in a conversation more than you trying to, you know, come up from 34 year old to get the 57 year old to listen to you. Yeah, that, that actually might work better than anything else I've said as I've been rambling. So give that a shot. Good question. And I'm glad you're addressing it and I'm glad you're being proactive. Make sure you play through on that. I've seen these things fall apart and they're not pretty when they fall apart. So let's, you know, let's have a plan and execute the plan. Don't really care what it is, but let's have a plan and execute the plan. Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further, automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster, you're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule a time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey Listen up. Your business won't grow until you do. When you lead better, your people perform better and your business wins bigger. That's why you've got to come to our next Entree Leadership Summit. It's the premier event for leaders who are serious about growth. You're going to spend four days getting insights from world class leadership experts including Will Guidera, New York Times bestselling author of Unreasonable Hospitality, Vanessa Van Edwards, the national bestselling author of Captivate the Science of Succeeding with People, Brian Buffini, founder of North America's largest real estate coaching company and our favorite Irishman, Duncan Wardle, former head of innovation and creativity at Disney and many more, including Pat Lincioni. I'll be there speaking of course. Ken Coleman will be there speaking of course. And Dr. John DeLoney will be there speaking of course. The best part is it all happens at Disney's Coronado Springs Resort in Orlando. To join us May 17 through 20, visit entreeleadership.comsummit or click the link in the show Notes. John is in Toledo Hey John, how are you?

[B]

Hey Dave. This is John from Toledo. I'm the CEO and owner of a company that sells services and rents industrial equipment. We have 23 employees and we'll do about 9.3 million in revenue this year. My question is how do I wisely manage business debt in a company that's both growth oriented and very cash intensive? Especially while I'm also getting interest from high value buyers who could eliminate that debt and create financial freedom.

[A]

High value buyers like somebody to buy the business

[B]

potentially. Oh

[A]

well, the high value buyer is going to look at a balance sheet and so your value of your business minus your debt. So debt doesn't help a high value buyer. Debt hurts. It and debt hurts your stability and your growth as well. I mean, you can have some artificial growth and hockey stick up, but you've added instability and risk out the wazoo when you do that. And so I wouldn't wisely manage debt. I would do away with debt completely and operate cash from the ground up. That's what we have done for 35 years. And we've got some very expensive pieces of equipment that, you know, we started out with cheaper ones and we added as we had profit to add from. But that way we didn't have any problems. As soon as if there's a customer problem and they didn't pay, or there's a cash flow problem or there's something else, you don't have cash problems as much when you don't have debt.

[B]

Yes. So I agree.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm going to buy equipment slow enough that I can pay cash for it. That's also going to make you more wise in the purchase of the equipment. Because if I can only buy one piece of equipment instead of three, I'm going to really look at which one's going to roi, which one's going to stay rented the most and give me the least problems with maintenance and you know, which one has a high appeal to the customer base I'm working with. Instead of like, well, I'll just try this other one. Since it's not real money, it's borrowed money. Cause it doesn't even feel like you're using real money then. And you take a lot of risks. You magnify the weaknesses of the business when you borrow into it. And so I would be paying cash for this. And that's not gonna hurt you in the event that someone comes along and wants to buy it. Unless they're buying it based on gross revenue multipliers regardless of debt. Which means they're stupid if they're ignoring. Let's pretend you took all $4 million worth of debt and you ran your gross up. Okay. And they buy based on the gross and ignore the debt. Well, that would be dumb. That's a very naive approach to a purchase. So you only use a gross multiplier on revs is if you have a standardized amount of debt in the industry, which would be little to none in your world. Because your world, equipment wears out. Equipment is new. Competitors come online with a different brand that you're not carrying. All kinds of stuff happens that makes the equipment you bought five years ago trash.

[B]

So most of our debt is tied up in the rental business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And these are five year rentals that and the equipment stays for anywhere from 10 to 14 years. And so we have been borrowing as we scale to because we have some very large customers that use us to provide this equipment to their customers. And so. Yes. So the debt is, is tied up in the rental business. And then.

[A]

Yeah, but you're making the assumption that they all stay, that they all stay solvent. Just because they're large doesn't mean they stay solvent.

[B]

Right. And that's, well, that's, and that's the challenge.

[A]

If they go broke. If they go broke, you're bank.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's, so that's, that's where it's getting into the personal. Right. So we are, we are going through this growth cycle providing equipment really nationally and we have this growing debt. But we, we have had some approached, we've been approached by some, some, some large buyers that would pay us multiples of ebitda and I could clear up that debt completely, plus some. But it's a family business. We take care of.

[A]

Yeah. Then you're out of business. I mean, they bought it and you're gone, right?

[B]

Well, it's potentially. But I would probably stick around. It'd be a buy, you know, but

[A]

I mean, you'd be, you'd be, you'd be an employee at that point and you have a liquidity moment, right?

[B]

Yes, that is correct.

[A]

Yeah. And so, I mean, that's a different scenario. If you're building it to sell in the next 18 months and you want to run debt up through the top and take a risk of bankruptcy. If you don't sell it, then that's a high risk play. But personally, I'd just be operating my business and make it look prettier and prettier and prettier and more stable. And you know, I just think she's a prettier girl at the dance for a buyer, then that's what I think. But, you know, I don't know who your buyer is and I don't know how sophisticated they are and because again, I've watched people pay multiples of what way more than they should for stuff based on the balance sheet and based on the, you know, the net operating income that they're looking at. And so because, I mean, EBITDA's one measure and, but I don't mind measuring actual cash. What am I getting in my pocket? And that's not a bad thing to measure if you're buying a property or buying a property or buying a business either. So it depends on what game you're playing. You can't play both, okay? If you play a game where you're running up the debt to run up the revenues to make it look attractive to somebody who's not using a formula I would use, you are putting yourself at risk. If they don't buy because you're in a very high risk, tenuous situation, then you're asking for trouble. If instead you're playing what Simon Sinek calls an infinite game where we're really not for sale, Somebody wants to come buy it, though, we'll talk about it. But we're really not for sale. We're just over here trying to make a business that's sustainable. Then you grow slower and you grow with organic cash, and you avoid debt because your sustainability is there. And if one of the large customers decides they're gonna piss on you and not pay you just to squash the little guy, or they become insolvent, then you're not bankrupt. But if one of these guys just bows up and says he's not gonna pay you and he's gonna redirect the cash flow because he got a new CEO and they're gonna open a new division and they're gonna build the new division on their payables, and that's happened before. And they decide, I'm not gonna pay you for 90 days, dude, you're in receivership. You're screwed. And that's what you're not anticipating is one of these big companies not misbehaving or not becoming insolvent. And they misbehave and become insolvent as much as little companies do. So, no, I'm not gonna play that role. So thank you. Thank you for the question. We had an opportunity a few years ago. It's a little. Little. It's dissimilar. But not one of the largest retailers out there came to us and wanted us to create a financial package, especially trademarked, branded, co branded package of materials to teach people about money. And they were going to put it on their shelf with their name and our name on it, right? And we would create it all. And it was a $10 million order, which for us was a lot of money, especially in those days. And I thought, well, this is great. We get to do business with so and so. And it's a $10 million order. And then we kept working the numbers, and really there wasn't a lot of margin in it. We weren't making a ton of profit. We're making a little bit. But it was a nice branding play. Cause we'd have this huge distribution and be associated with a positive brand and all these things. So I thought, okay, even if it's not a lot of money, we'll try it. And then the contracts come in, and they wanted us to produce $10 million worth of stuff with their name on it and our name on it, which means there's only one place in the world to sell it there. But they had full returns, meaning that if the sales weren't what they thought they should be, they could just ship them back and get a refund, which means I would have all this stuff in the warehouse that I've already paid for that I can't do anything with except throw in the dumpster because it's got other people's name on it and crap, right? And I'm like, so in other words, I have to eat all the risk of sales. And you got an $8 an hour stock clerk putting this out, maybe on the right shelf, maybe not. And then maybe it doesn't sell because it wasn't on the end cap where it's supposed to be. No, thank you. Not with full returns. I said, I can't do this with full returns. They said, well, everyone accepts this contract language because they want to do business with us. And I said, well, you can't say that anymore because now everyone hadn't done it because I'm not doing it. And we turned around and walked away from a $10 million order. And we cried a little bit. Threw up a little bit in my mouth. Yeah, it was bad. I mean, $10 million, right? It wasn't $10 million profit, but still, it was a lot of money, and it was a big deal. And we had a lot of effort in building up the idea with them and working the contract and everything. But I could not accept the risk of high returns, of them being becoming not solvent. But worse than that, one of their local regional distribution places becomes incompetent, loses the crap, and then they want to send it back for a full invoice, which would be a freckle for them, but for me, it'd be a deal breaker, and I was not accepting that risk. You want me to take on all the risk of the whole thing? It's not logical. I'm not doing it. And so to me, this thing we're discussing, John is in the same boat with that. It's just not worth it. But this idea that somehow you can depend on major huge companies to always have your best interest at heart when you're the little guy, they don't even know you're there and they don't care and they squash you like last week's roach and not think anything about it. It's just, you just. And it's not that I'm cynical, it's just that I'm cynical. So you just got, you just got to be real wise when you're looking at these things and not set yourself up for a fall. Because that's what this, these situations can come down to. Good question. Man, sounds like you got a cool business. And if selling it is your dream, I hope it comes true for you.

[B]

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[A]

This is from Ben in Hartford, Connecticut. Dave, I run a 14 person home services business and lately we've been dropping the ball. Missed appointment windows slow follow up miscommunication between the office and the field. Everyone keeps blaming someone else and I can't tell if this is a person problem or a systems problem. What's the first practical step to figure out where the real breakdown is so I can fix it without guessing? Well, the good news is you run a small enough business that you can step on this pretty hard. I simply would put everyone in a room and say no more. We work too hard to get the customers, cost too much to acquire a customer and to mistreat them with missed appointment windows, slow follow up and miscommunication stops now. And you can't blame somebody else. It's your job. If you're sitting here, it is your job to make sure the appointments are hit, to make sure that the follow ups are instantaneous and to make sure that miscommunication between the office and the field goes away. It's your job to step on it and fix this. And we are not going to do this anymore. And if you do this anymore, by doing it, you are stating you don't want to be here. Because I just said we don't have slow follow up, we don't have missed appointment windows as of right now, period. And so it's a condition of further employment. In other words, you get to keep your job if we stop doing this because I'm not going to tolerate it. We're not going to live like this. Life's too short and I'm not mad at a certain person, but these processes that are breaking down are absolutely ridiculous. Now you guys tell me what we need to do to fix this so it doesn't happen anymore. And tell me without pointing at a person, because I don't think a single person is the problem. I think everybody's contributed something and everybody's contributed nothing to this problem. So as of right now, without throwing somebody under the bus, what do you think we need to do to make sure that there's not any missed appointments? Why are we missing an appointment? What happened? Well, it didn't get on the books. Well, why do we not get it out on the books? We need some better software. Okay, good, let's get some better software. We need a follow up. But you're not running something big enough that you can't watch all three of these things very intensely with your hands up to your elbows down in the business getting muddy all the way to your armpits. Finding out what the flip is broken here. You got to get down in this. And when they see that you're down in it, they're going to go, oh, he's not kidding because, oh, I'm not kidding. We're not going to do this anymore. So first you lay that baseline, then you say, okay guys, now you help me. What can I do to help you? Because I'm going to be helping you. I'm either going to be helping you out or I'm going to be helping you out. So I'm going to be helping you. What are we going to be doing? Help me help you. What have we got to do? What have we got to do to get here? Because we're not getting here. If you need some software, if I need a better system, if we were short on one person's got too much stuff piled up on them and they can't get to it. All of that's fine. We haven't allocated for traffic because now in Hartford, Connecticut there's traffic and during COVID there wasn't. And now we have to drive in traffic to get there. And so we have a missed appointment or we're late and slow follow ups and all that stuff. So we're just not going to do this anymore. We're going to follow up. And by the way, we have a new rule. All customer emails and phone calls are answered within 24 hours. So if one comes to your personal inbox, you answer it that day, period. I don't care if it's your job, you answer it anyway and you make sure someone is getting the job done. You look over at your co worker and you say, hey, we gotta get this done. You heard what Ben said, we've gotta fix this because we have a new standard around here and it's a standard of excellence instead of piss poor work. And we're not gonna operate this way. And so again, we're not picking on a certain person. But I can get very passionate and very angry at a broken system and at a broken lack of attention. So we don't do it this way. Now I'll give you an example of that. We had one of our core values is high levels of communication. At Ramsey we value high levels of communication. We have lots of one on one accountability meetings with each of our leaders. We have group leadership meetings, we have group team meetings where everybody's looking at each other going, what do we got to do to get this? We got squads working on projects that are holding each other accountable. We've got staff meeting with the entire company every Monday morning. We have a devotional every Wednesday morning. 100% you will gather at these times. We value communication. Many years ago we had a project that we're working on that just absolutely was an epic circus. It was an absolute freaking disaster. Everything we touched turned to poop. It was just awful. And finally when we got the thing done and got the other side of it, I sat down with the leadership team and I went, look, here's, this is what happened. We don't do this anymore and you know, we're going to fix this and whatever. And we're walking across the parking lot after the meeting and one of my young leaders who was kind of a, I don't know, full of himself I guess, came over to me and he said, you know why this didn't work? And I said, no, why? Well, I said, I think I know why. We just talked about it in there for the last hour and I don't really want to talk about it anymore. And I said it was bad communication is what it was. And he said, yeah, yeah, and it was your fault. I went, my fault? Okay, you got some backbone. What are you talking about? And he started telling me where I had broken down. And he was exactly right. You know what? And so you got to hold yourself to that standard too, Ben, that you're going to not be part of anything. You can't stand back in the ivory tower and just throw a grenade out and say, y' all fix this. No, you get up to your elbows in it and you help them fix it. But you also set a new standard, a cultural icon that says, you know, back where they can look back 20 years from now and they'll go, yeah, I remember back in 25 when we used to do that stuff and Ben came in and said, no more. And it's been no more since then. And they can look back 20 years later and say, we don't do that. So some of our communication processes, weekly reports and other things came about at Ramsey from a time where we sucked and we had to fix it and not suck anymore. And so that's what we're talking about here, Ben, is you guys suck right now at these things and you gotta get in there and you gotta help them. Leadership is service. You step in and serve the team by helping them and making sure that they have the tools they need to where we don't have any more missed appointment windows, any more slow follow ups, any more air quotes, miscommunication. Miscommunication usually in this situation falls under the heading of I don't give a crap. And if you don't give a crap, you don't get to work here. Cause we all care. We all act like we own it and you don't get to stay here. So miscommunication is I didn't care enough. I mailed it in. And I'm like, well, he didn't get it done again. I roll my eyes instead of making sure it freaking gets done. Take the bull by the horns, make sure this happens. Take the ball in your hands, put the bodies in the lane and drop the stinking ball through the hoop. Knock everything down until the freaking goal is accomplished. And that's everybody on the team has got to have that mentality. And that's a fired up and wired up thing, that this matters and we're going to fix it. We're not going to mail it in again anymore on these particular subjects. So the good news is you got a small enough team, one meeting and you will begin the process of fixing it. By the end of the first week, it'll be largely gone because you're gonna be stepping on these ants. Every time one of them runs out, you're gonna stomp it and they're gonna kill every one of these dadgum bugs until they're gone. As soon as you start paying extreme intense attention to it, the needle will move on this and you'll get it straightened out before you know it. And if a person arises to be the problem, then they're not a we. We don't do this anymore. So we can't keep you. Cause you're not a we. Every breakthrough in your business starts with a breakthrough in you. That's why you need to come to Entree Leadership Summit. You'll get insights from top thought leaders in the leadership and business space like Will Guidera, Vanessa Van Edwards, Brian Buffini, and more. And the best part is it all happens at Disney's Coronado Springs Resort in Orlando. To join us May 17 through 20, visit entreeleadership.comsummit or click the link in the show notes. Thanks for joining us. If you want to help us out, click the follow button or the subscribe button. It matters. Those algorithm thingies in the Internet, they work so those five star reviews, it changes things. When you share the show, tell people about the show, they come listen to us. It makes a big difference and it has made a big difference over the last couple of years. Thank you for the hockey stick growth we've had up and to the right. We appreciate you guys sharing and telling people about us. If you want to join the show, be sure you're with us at 844-944-1070. That's the number, 844-944 10. Jeff is in Lincoln, Nebraska. Hi Jeff, how are you?

[B]

Just another day in paradise, Mr. Ramsey. How are you?

[A]

Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help?

[B]

I love it. I love it. Well, listen, first and foremost, thank you for what you do for young entrepreneurs, old entrepreneurs. Everybody, everybody that I know listens to this podcast. Really appreciate it. So thank you for the service that you provide.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I own and operate an equipment dealership here in Nebraska. I started this company right out of college about nine years ago and lifetime sales of the company are just over 53 million. This year. We're going to end probably somewhere just north of $8 million in gross revs with an EBITDA of around 540,000. So this is going to be our best year yet. Finally, after nine years getting tuned in here to how we can do the best job. My question today revolves around small teams. So I have a team of five people full time here and my challenge is how can we better prepare ourselves for when multiple staff members are gone with little or no notice? And the context for the question comes from two Mondays ago when all of the team members were gone and it was just me and it was a stressful day. Instead of working 10 hours, I worked 16 hours. I went home, I was a complete grump to my wife and my kids and I just, I just have to find a better way to prepare not only the company but to prepare myself for when things happen. It was a mixture between pre approved time off and kids getting sick and personnel getting sick, doctor's appointments, so on and so forth. It wasn't from a position of, you know, abusing the privilege of time off. It was more about, it was the perfect storm. And as I look back over the past nine years, this happens about once a quarter on one day. You know, it's a perfect storm. So how, as a, as an entrepreneur who's involved with the company every day, who already has a full workload, how can I better position myself and the company to absorb those responsibilities without sacrificing customer service?

[A]

Wow. I've had individuals or for short periods of time, stuff like that happen. I've never had 100% of my workforce out for a day. That's even when we were, even when we were your size. So. And once a quarter is untenable. That tells me that, that tells me that coming to work is not a high priority.

[B]

Well, I, I think as I look at the other four team members, that could be true for one of them. You know, one's my all star, definitely. Unless you know, he's on his deathbed, he's at work.

[A]

Well, what was he? I mean where was he?

[B]

Yeah, he, he had a family emergency, there was a car wreck and so it was, like I said, it was the perfect storm. There was a, an injury.

[A]

It' a quarter. Where was he on those other quarters?

[B]

Yeah, mostly for that particular individual. It's, it's pre approved time off, like three weeks in advance, one day off. Office manager, you know, has a grandchild who is always ill, so she's gone occasionally. The other guy has a special needs son who has doctor's appointments and things. And right now we have a vacant in the other role. It's a family problem, that's for sure. The mother and the father and in former in laws that's definitely carrying over into this person's attendance.

[A]

Okay, so. Well we've got individual cases going on here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But basically I'm going to turn up the heat that says, you know, you can't leave me in here by myself. Your lack of planning at home does not constitute a crisis on my part. Constitutes a crisis on your part. You have to be at work if you want the job. And so if something pops up with the child, your spouse is going to have to handle it because you have to be at work. And occasionally I can grant grace but I don't have the margin for all you people to just not show up because it's not convenient that day.

[B]

Yeah, and I think that's exactly right. I'm midwest polite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I try to assume everybody's telling the truth and doing the best but it's, it's really, really.

[A]

I think they're pushing the edge of grace here and mercy and I think they're, they're taking advantage of you to a point. I mean it's probably not that big a deal. But listen, I mean I've got people here that have had things come up and for a season we can let them thing, have a thing. But if you can't come to work one day a week on average because of your childcare issue, I can't have you. I have to have people working. So I gotta get somebody else. If you're just constantly, if they're just chronically have a medical problem over a long period of time, I mean a season I can give you the grace, we'll work around you, we'll backfill for you, that kind of stuff. But you know, when you came to work here, we work here Monday through Friday we work in the building, we work in the building and we're work from work. That's who we are. And that's the job you took and if you can't do that I understand but I mean, and again a one off or a car wreck or something, sure we're not mean nasty people but my grandson is sick and every time my grandson, you're not even the mother, you're the grandmother, you're not at work. No, that's not going once a year for that one, you know. And so we're going to have to reset our expectations with these folk and go, that's the thing. And if something does blow up we have to have a self employed mentality around Here, where if you had a personal day off and your personal day was planned for three weeks, and your personal day plan is to be fishing and everybody else can't show up because of legitimate car wreck stuff, you gotta not fish that day. I'll give you another day to fish. You gotta come help me fish because I gotta get, I got, I got fish to catch. So, I mean, you know, I don't know what you're doing. Your personal day. If your personal day is planning to be in Paris, France or something, you can't do anything about it. But that's probably not the case.

[B]

It's probably not reasonable of me to communicate that to him, you know, the person who had his personal day off.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is it reasonable for me to send a text and say, hey, if it's possible, I sure need to help. No one else.

[A]

I mean, I, you know, unless you're, Unless you're up to your eyeballs and something over there that I don't know about, I need you to get over here and help me. I'll give you another. I'll give you two days later to offset this one day. But I need some help.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I mean, I'll be. But guys, I mean, so and so had a car wreck, another kid, you know, blew up, whatever it was, I don't know, but I, whatever. And I'm stuck over here. I need some help. And really I would just call a staff meeting and say, we're not doing this anymore. Okay? We're not gonna have a thing where three personal emergencies and one I don't give a crap. And one personal day combines with me being down here by myself. The purpose of having a team is to have a team. And when everybody doesn't show up for various reasons and it leaves it on me, I'm not doing this anymore. So we're gonna have to have a reset on expectations and that is that you're at work unless something's really, really, really bad.

[B]

Right? Right. Given all of that information, would you also potentially suggest hiring one or two more people to the team to cover to plug those holes overlap, or is this purely mentality issue? My wife seems to think that the margins are good enough. I need to hire another full time person. That person would be busy maybe 2/3 of the time, but the other third

[A]

of the time I would hire somebody else if they're busy all the time. And that would. The more busy all the times you got, the better chances you got of not having anybody there. Again, that's kind of wild, but I think the thing is this, it's a small team. And they have to realize when you work for a small business, you can't say the words it's not my job. Cause everything's your job when you work for a small business. We all lift boxes, we all answer the phone, we all show up and take orders sometimes. Cause we all do whatever it takes. Cause there's just freaking five of us boys and girls. And so we all gotta care deeply or this place isn't gonna be here to write you a check. So we have to produce here and so we have to increase our intensity. You don't work for corporate America who's gonna piss on you the first time you mess up. But you also don't work for corporate America that's gonna put up with your incompetence and just not showing up and mailing it in. Cause I don't have margin to do that. You guys got to give a rip at a real high level or we're not going to be able to grow, we're not going to be able to get better. And if you don't want to work here on that basis, I understand. But here we work while we're at work.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

I mean it's just that's I've had. This is the very words I've used out of my mouth at staff meeting. I say stuff like this. Not as much anymore, but I did for certain in the first 10 years here and go, this is what we do. I had to set the culture of a self employed mentality. We're not mailing it in because you know, if my kid is sick I can't not show up and do the radio show. Somebody's got to cover the kid. Right? I got it. Because the stinking microphone doesn't turn on. That radio station is kind of quiet. That doesn't work.

[B]

And I think that's part of the problem is that it's at in my position, my wife and my mother in law, to be honest with you, are able to handle those crises on my personal side. And the other couple other team members don't have that infrastructure and they've not set themselves up with that infrastructure to handle those crises when they come up.

[A]

I don't have my job to work here if you don't show up before days out of five. Yep, I don't have the margin and

[B]

it's tough because those people are good when they're here. The one person in particular is really good and is a plus when they're here.

[A]

Yeah. But that's. They're still not fulfilling the job. The job description is gotta be here

[B]

8 to 5, Monday through Friday.

[A]

That's what we do, man. And it's like, you know, and you have some personal time off and we can't all take it at once. If everybody turns in vacation on the same two weeks in the summer. You can't, you're not going to accept those applications for. No, everybody can't go on vacation at one time.

[B]

Right, right. That's true.

[A]

You know, we used to have to manage that because we'd have a whole department gone, nobody to answer the phone, you know, like, you can't do that. You know, you can't all be gone at the same time. I don't care if everybody likes June or not. No, thank you. I mean, we just, this is not. We don't have any way to keep doing business. And when you get back, your job won't be here because we'll be broke. You know what I mean? It's just so somehow they don't get that urgency that's in my voice right now, that visceral feeling. And if they don't, then every little thing that comes up in their personal life becomes a reason to not go to work because they're mailing it in. But if you got people that really want to be there and they're helping you drive the thing forward, they're not just there to collect a check, then you can do away with some of this. So I think you've got one of the five you're gonna have to replace. And I think you know who it is. And I think that'll change the culture of the whole thing too. And you don't have to do it suddenly. I don't think anybody's mad at anybody. But you've been putting it off and you've been putting up with it and you've been putting up with it and you're getting tired, even in your midwestern way. As you said, you're getting sick of it. And so you already know you probably got one, you may have two. And then maybe if you can get enough business coming in, you can do what your wife said. Let's get a full time person to work a full more of those. We've got, I mean, 10 people, you've got less chance of this happening than five. And so you're getting off the treadmill stage. You got a more of a. More of a delegatable situation. The broader it gets. And we can get you from 8 million to 16 million or something, right? That's what we want to get to, but we're not going to get there every time somebody poops their diaper. We can't have to go home. That just won't work. It's hard. It's hard. And it sounds like I don't care. It's not that I don't care, it's just that I don't care. That's all it is. So all right, folks, that about does it. Let's remember a better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us on Entree Leadership. If you're a business owner who's been grinding it out and rarely gets time to step back and think clearly, I want to tell you about something special. The Live like no One Else Cruise is a seven day experience in the Western Caribbean with me and the Ramsey team. This isn't just a vacation, it's an intentional time away to reset your perspective and celebrate the progress you've made financially and professionally. And in 2027, we're bringing entree Leadership at Sea back that includes special Entree Leadership breakout sessions you can sign up for, designed specifically for business owners and leaders. You'll get practical teaching, real Q and A and focused time to think through your business with people who understand what you're carrying. Space is limited. Learn [e-mail] events or click the link in the show Notes.