Real Business Owner Exposes “Business Influencer” Culture

Summary

Podcast Summary: EntreLeadership – "Multimillionaire Exposes 'Business Influencer' Culture"

Date: July 20, 2026
Host: John Felkins (Ramsey Network)
Guests: Dave Ramsey (Intro/Outro), Brian (Founder & CEO, Advantage Technologies)

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Episode Overview

This episode steps behind the curated facades of business influencer culture to deliver a raw, real, and unvarnished look at what it takes to build and run a multimillion-dollar business. John Felkins interviews Brian, founder of Advantage Technologies, who shares his 25-year journey from a two-person IT operation to leading a company with 100 employees across 11 states. The conversation is anchored in honesty, grit, and the value of perseverance, sharply critiquing the "overnight success" myth perpetuated by social media business "gurus." The episode contrasts these influencer shortcuts with the genuine struggles and hard-earned victories that define true entrepreneurial leadership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of Overnight Success

• Opening Thoughts – Dave Ramsey opens with the reality of "overnight success" being decades of unseen grind:
  • "There's no such thing as an overnight success. What looks like overnight is usually 10, 15, 20 years of hustling and grinding when no one was watching." [00:05]
• Brian and John share their irritation with influencer culture, noting people have literally tried to rent Brian’s jet for fake success photos:
  • "They can't afford to actually start it or pay for the gas, but they'll rent it... It's a thing." – Brian [02:07]

2. Brian’s Origin Story & Early Struggles

• Brian started Advantage Technologies after being left unpaid at a failing roofing company; he took some hardware as compensation and began servicing local businesses:
  • "I loaded it all up in my dad's truck and I started my company." – Brian [03:03]
• Pivoted from a would-be pilot career after 9/11 decimated job prospects in aviation, doubling down on IT. [04:44]

3. Realities of Building a Business

• First years defined by relentless hustle: Brian wore every hat—sales, tech support, marketing, installation—all while fielding pages and faxes at all hours. [06:38]
• Expansion was slow and based on opportunity—not a master plan or a secret hack:
  • "There's no big shortcut or hack... You didn't download somebody's course that showed you how to be successful." – John Felkins [09:31]
  • "Don't get me started." – Brian [09:38]

4. Honest Reflections: Highs, Lows, and Personal Sacrifice

• Brian shares the emotional toll—late nights, contemplating layoffs, selling his home and car, maxing out personal credit cards to make payroll:
  • "Everybody got paid that week except me... that's the thing that doesn't sell well on TikTok." – Brian [11:31]
• The value of resilience:
  • "If I could talk to me 15 years ago... just don't. Just don't quit. Just keep at it." – Brian [13:12]

5. Radical Transparency with the Team

• During a severe cash crisis post-Great Recession and a surprise six-figure IRS tax bill, Brian openly shared the company’s struggles with his team:
  • "Here's where we're at, guys. This is the inning in the score. And I'm like, we're broke, we're in debt and we're in trouble." – Brian [16:08]
• Launched the “Moving the Mountain” campaign with a Big Hairy Audacious Goal (BHAG) to get debt-free and cash-positive; the team rallied, achieving the goal faster than planned. [17:48]
  • "18 months later, we were completely debt free with $100,000 in cash reserves." – Brian [17:44]

6. Scaling Up: Leadership Lessons

• Growth only became sustainable after systems replaced single-person dependencies:
  • "If at any point it's based on what only Brian knows, that's a failure in the process." – Brian [21:23]
• On delegation versus founder control:
  • "If you hold onto it, you don't scale... And you burn out." – Brian [24:20]

7. Working “On” the Business

• Evolution from doer to thinker was both liberating and unsettling:
  • "There was a summer where I wasn't sure what to do with myself." – Brian [25:02]
  • "Thinking is the hardest work that we do." – Henry Ford (quoted) [26:10]
• CEO's true priorities now: Vision, breaking down silos, eliminating complexity, and defending culture [27:24]

8. Defending Company Culture Above All

• Letting go of high-performing but toxic team members, even at great short-term cost:
  • "I fired him six months in because he created chaos everywhere he went." – Brian [28:34]
  • The real cost is the whole team – not just numbers.

9. Vision Beyond Personal Wealth

• Brian explicitly rejects becoming another “built to sell” company for private equity:
  • "Ours is not built to sell." [30:05]
  • Wants to hand off to next-generation leaders raised within company—possibly with ESOP considerations but not for a quick exit. [31:00]

10. What Keeps Him Grounded

• Faith, family, and gratitude keep Brian humble and purposeful:
  • "I think all of this is a lot bigger than just me and a dollar sign." – Brian [33:43]
  • Credits wife’s support, especially during periods with four young kids and business turmoil. [34:36]
• Fierce critique of business-influencer culture:
  • "It’s a lie... It diminishes the work that so many people are doing." – Brian [34:40]

11. Meaning & Motivation

• Success is not the goal; impact is:
  • "I enjoy what I do and it makes an impact." – Brian [37:25]
• Favorite moments: Seeing clients’ businesses thrive because of his team's work, especially in times of stress [38:08]

12. The Plane as Symbol and Tool

• The jet is an earned symbol, a “token” on a long journey, but also a tool for efficiency—not a vanity accessory:
  • "The number of times where I’ve had meetings in Orlando, Atlanta, and I’m home for dinner... it’s a huge efficiency gain." – Brian [42:06]

13. Closing Advice: Ignore the Fakes, Don't Quit

• Looking back, Brian emphasizes that refusing to quit enabled everything—his freedom, employees’ well-being, and family flexibility:
  • "If I would have quit... this wouldn’t be here." – Brian [43:54]
  • Cautions: Ignore social media highlights and their hollow success narratives.

14. The Real Obstacle: Fear

• What holds most people back? Fear of loss and self-doubt in a culture obsessed with superficial confidence:
  • "Fear holds people back... They don’t have it all together." – Brian [45:15]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the false influencer narrative:

  • “It’s a lie and it’s a scam. ... it diminishes the work that so many people are doing.” – Brian [34:40]

• On true leadership:

  • “My hope is that ... over the next 20 years we’re going to identify that next generation of leaders. And ultimately I take a five year transition and I have that person walk alongside me, and then I hand it over to them.” – Brian [30:47]

• On tough decisions:

  • “I fired him six months in because he created chaos everywhere he went.” – Brian [28:34]

• On perseverance:

  • “If you try and find a shortcut around those [hard moments], it doesn’t work.” – Brian [18:25]
  • “Ignore the influencer on Instagram ... He rented the seat in the plane. He doesn’t know.” – Brian [45:05]

• On founder burnout and scaling:

  • “Being the hero is exhausting.” – Brian [25:00]
  • “If you hold onto it, you don’t scale ... and you burn out.” – Brian [24:20]

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Key Timestamps

• 00:05 – Dave Ramsey on the myth of overnight success
• 02:07 – Social media’s fake success – renting jets for photos
• 03:03 – Brian’s start and how he launched the company
• 06:38 – Early years juggling every business role
• 11:29-13:12 – The emotional toll and lessons on not quitting
• 16:08-17:44 – Turning crisis into a rallying campaign (“Moving the Mountain”)
• 21:23 – Building scalable systems, the fallacy of “the hero founder”
• 24:20 – Scaling vs. burnout and the necessity of letting go
• 28:34 – Defending culture, firing a high performer
• 30:05 – Refusing to “build to sell,” vision for a lasting team legacy
• 33:43 – Faith, purpose, and why success isn’t the ultimate goal
• 38:08 – Most rewarding client impacts
• 42:06 – The business jet as a strategic tool
• 45:05 – Closing message: Don’t believe influencers, don’t quit
• 45:15 – The real obstacle: fear of loss and self-doubt

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Final Takeaway

The episode is a masterclass in authentic, principle-driven entrepreneurship. It offers both sobering honesty about the sacrifices required to build and sustain a business and an encouraging counter-narrative to the influencer culture of quick wins and easy money. Brian’s story demonstrates that true success is measured in integrity, tenacity, and the lasting impact on people—not rented jets, highlight reels, or selling courses. For anyone grinding in the trenches or doubting their path, this episode is both a reality check and a powerful motivation to stay the course.

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Listen to the episode for more no-nonsense leadership advice and real-world business wisdom.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no such thing as an overnight success. What looks like overnight is usually 10, 15, 20 years of hustling and grinding when no one was watching my first year, I was trying to figure out how to make payroll, how to keep the lights on and how to not lose my mind all at the same time. There was a whole lot of pressure and a whole lot of primitive basic mistakes. Here's the truth about growing a business. It's slow, it's hard, and it will take more out of you than you expect. But if you keep showing up and keep doing the work, you persevere, it will pay off. And then you're gonna look back and go, wow, that was a ride. And to show you what that really looks like, Entree leadership's head coach John Felkins is sitting down with someone who spent the last 25 years building a business from a two person operation to a multi million dollar company. They're going to walk through the highs and the lows and the lessons learned so you can keep growing your business even when it's hard.

[John Felkins]

You're the founder and CEO of Advantage

[Brian]

Tech IT Advantage Technologies. But Advantage I've been called worse.

[John Felkins]

Okay, how many folks do you have working there now?

[Brian]

Just about 100.

[John Felkins]

Okay. So big company.

[Brian]

It feels that way when payroll comes around.

[John Felkins]

I get that. That's a lot of people, a lot of payroll to make.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[John Felkins]

And it's. IT is managed IT services mostly for

[Brian]

healthcare is a big one. Lots of dental practices. But law firms and CPA fir, so professional services.

[John Felkins]

And I know it's obvious that we're sitting here in front of a jet.

[Brian]

We are.

[John Felkins]

And it's your jet. And part of what kind of initiated this conversation was we were having breakfast the other day and I was, I think we both were both like making fun of and annoyed with what I call the fast company culture where it's like a get rich quick mentality. And to the point where you surprised me and said people have actually asked you to rent your plane to take pictures to look like they're successful.

[Brian]

Yeah. They can't afford to actually start it or pay for the gas, but they'll rent it. I have friends who actually rent their airplanes just for an influencer to get the picture of going up the steps, sitting inside, pretending they're going someplace, and then walking down the steps at a different part on the ramp. It's a thing.

[John Felkins]

It is a thing. And not only is it a thing, that's ridiculous. It actually annoys me because I have known you for about 14 years. And I know that it has taken a lot to get to where you are, and I would love to just have that conversation today and just talk about how you got into business and what it's been like and the challenges that you've overcome. And so I'd love for you to just kind of recount even the story of when you got in business and why that happened and what you were intending to do before that one fateful day that changed everything.

[Brian]

Well, I was working my way through community college. Didn't go to a major university, and I was working doing IT systems for a roofing company, of all things. And I learned all the best things about business, about how not to do it from this company. Like, you name it, they screwed it up. But I learned so much working there. And it got to a point where they weren't able to make payroll. They were basically going bankrupt. And I knew I wasn't going to get my last two paychecks. And so I said, well, I guess I'll take my workstation and the server and maybe a printer. And I loaded it all up in my dad's truck and I started my company. And the owner was like, yeah, can't pay you. Also, I'm like, well, this looks like cool stuff. I'll take it with me. And that's how it all started. I was working my way through college and started doing it for local businesses. And one of the electives when I was in school was ground school for flying.

[John Felkins]

Okay.

[Brian]

I was like, oh, that'd be a fun elective. I always had, like, an interest. I grew up by a small airport in the middle of nowhere, and I just fell in love with it. I'm like, oh, this is so much fun. And decided I'm gonna do this as a career. And so then I switched my college plans and was gonna become a commercial pilot. Started working on all my ratings and got all the way through and actually had a job lined up as a first officer flying out of the Southwest. And I got my acceptance letter saying, hey, here you are. You're off to the big leagues. And that letter was dated September 1, 2001. And 10 days later, the whole world changed, particularly in the aviation industry.

[John Felkins]

Everything just shut down. Because of 9 11, correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Brian]

911 changed everything. Airlines were furloughing pilots, so entry level guys like me is like, you're going to be a few years. And so I was like, well, you know, this IT gig is actually working out okay. And so I continued to build on that, and here we are 26 years

[John Felkins]

later as you started the business. Talk a little bit about what that was like, how you got it going, how it grew, and was it like you thought it was gonna be?

[Brian]

Oh, man, no. This is the short answer to that. It's nothing like what you see on TikTok or Instagram. There's lots of ups and downs. And I think that's part of what we were talking about at breakfast that's so frustrating is if you look at so many of these business influencers, it's like, oh, this is what it should be. Or even worse, if you're not doing this by the time you're 22 and you're not driving this and doing this, then you've just really screwed it up. And I'm like, that is all completely untrue. And as somebody who's spent now 26 years on that journey, it's a little frustrating and a little insulting to a lot of people who are probably watching this, who are in the middle of the grind, who have done that. So there was no straight up into the right path. So we made mistakes, we tried to recover from it. We learned principles from, I mean, amongst other guys. I was at the, I think believe, the very first Entree Leadership Master series before Summit was a thing 15 years ago or so. And we just learn and we keep working on it and we screw things up and we fix them and we keep learning and growing. And what were you doing?

[John Felkins]

Like, take me to the first year of business. Oh, man, you're staying up late at night, you're fixing people's computers. Like, what are you doing?

[Brian]

So I'd go to. Whether it's a trade show or an event or just networking with a partner, trying to do the sales, having somebody introduce me, knocking on doors, all of the things, right? And then I'd be up at night quoting and putting together the whole system and then actually going and running the cable and installing everything. And in the meantime, I'm getting phone call. Well, at the time I was getting pages on my pager and faxes probably. Yeah, I couldn't afford a fax machine at this time with people needing tech support. And so the marketing, sales, business, installation and support, I was doing it all. And so that's what the first couple years were like.

[John Felkins]

I could just imagine you. Have you tried Control, Alt, Delete?

[Brian]

You know, have you tried turning it off and turning it on again? It's a real thing.

[John Felkins]

It's a real thing. It's a real thing.

[Brian]

I've said that. So Many times in my life.

[John Felkins]

What part of the country were you in?

[Brian]

Michigan.

[John Felkins]

Michigan.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[John Felkins]

Okay.

[Brian]

Based out of Michigan. Started there, and then expanded to Ohio, Indiana, and then Chicago was our other first major market in Wisconsin. And that's actually where flying got to be integrated with it, which I'm really grateful for, because it's a long drive from Michigan to West Coast. There's a bunch of water in between. You know, you gotta go around. And so it really became really helpful, and I got to integrate those two passions, and it's been like that ever since.

[John Felkins]

What was it like in those days where you got beyond being the one that was doing the sales? You know, saying, hit control, alt, delete, running the wires. Talk a little bit about building the team. And I know you said you grew your footprint, but how did you. How did you do that?

[Brian]

Just continuing to find the right people and look for opportunities where it's like, okay, there could be an opportunity here if we find the right person to be able to slide into that slot. And this is one of the. I probably heard it from you guys. You've heard the phrase, you know, hire slow and fire fast. I've done it the opposite way. 0 stars do not recommend. I've done them multiple times.

[John Felkins]

Well, that's why we say that. We don't say that because it sounds like a good idea, because we've done the same thing.

[Brian]

Yeah. Like, where we've been successful is where we have looked for an opportunity. We've waited, and we've found the right team to be able to expand. Where I've had challenges is where I felt pressured. Oh, we got to jump on this. Let's just find somebody. You know, it never works out. Yeah, never. And so, you know, how did we grow it? Opportunities came out. We waited for the right person. The two intersected, and we were able to build them and build a team around them. And that's. We've just done that over and over and over. And so now we have just about 100 people in about, I believe, 11 states. And it's the same thing, just one after another after another.

[John Felkins]

There's no big shortcut or hack or. You didn't download somebody's course that showed you how to be successful.

[Brian]

Don't get me started.

[John Felkins]

Because they showed you their limo and their jet on the Runway in Vegas, and. And they had it all figured out.

[Brian]

You know, this is the funny part. And I'll go on a tangent here. Please do for just a second. Because when you look at, like, when you ask, hey, can we shoot in the hangar. I have a little bit of apprehension about it, to be honest with you, because, you know, this is great. I love this. It's like a little token when you're keeping score of your career. This is a big one for me. Right. But there's a lot of other tokens along that scorecard that don't look as good on camera. Yeah, right. And I think this is if people only hear one thing from me who are. If I could talk to the me from 20 years ago, like, the jet's great, I love it. But there's a lot of other tokens along the way. Right. So there's the token of my house in Florida when my wife and I moved and it was in the aftermath of the Great Recession, and that house is a token when I sat at the table with my wife, holding back tears, signing papers to sell our home because I knew that I wasn't going to be able to make payroll and if things didn't dramatically change, we were going to be facing layoffs. There's the little room that served as my office at the time where my wife came in one night at 2 o' clock in the morning. And I was sitting in my chair just looking at this Excel sheet and I'm like, I. I don't know that I have it. I don't know that I have what it takes to do this. Because in that sheet where 30 days, 90 days, 180 days. And it was a list of names and it was the people I'd no longer be able to keep if things did not change. And these people, I know them, I know their family, I know their kids. Names like, this is not some employee number. This was real.

[John Felkins]

Yeah. It's not Monopoly money.

[Brian]

It is not.

[John Felkins]

You're playing for real.

[Brian]

And so there's that token of that house or that or the car that I sold, because I'm like, shoot, I can do this trade show or I can do this thing right? And don't tell Dave. But there's also the time where we were going to be just in a cash flow crisis and I ran my personal credit card for 20 something thousand dollars, which 20 something years ago was a lot of money. Still a lot of money. Not knowing how I was gonna be able to pay that back. But everybody got paid that week except me. Like, there's that thing that doesn't sell well on TikTok. No, nobody makes a bunch of money off a course on that, but I think that's why you and I find that so frustrating. Because it doesn't. There's no do this and then you get. You're immediately there. I've not found that path. It's a lot of this and there's a lot of scars that go along with that. And so I think if I could talk to the me of 15 years ago and, you know, to other people that maybe help. It's like, man, don't quit. Like, the market needs people who are tenacious and who have integrity and who are just like, I am not gonna quit everything. I would have given up if I would have quit. Yeah, it makes me sad thinking about how close I got to doing that. So that would be the thing I'd say to myself from, you know, however many years ago, man, just don't. Just don't quit. Just keep at it. There's a lot of people who are going to be positively impacted because you did what God wants you to do, what you're here to do. Like, I know that's just, that's part of why I'm here is to create this culture, this team, this company, and to, to lead it to the best of my ability. And there's a lot of people that are going to be positively impacted because I didn't give up on that.

[John Felkins]

One of my favorite things about hanging out with you is just your honesty about it not being perfect, it not being easy. The transparency about the tough times. It's just honesty. And I think that's what, frankly pisses me off when I see the mirage of, hey, just buy my course and it'll be easy. And here you'll be one of my favorite stories, or one of the stories that gets me the most maybe is a story that you tell about an unexpected tax bill that you got one time. Would you be. Could you walk us through that a little bit?

[Brian]

Yeah. So it goes back to that same time, aftermath of the Great Recession. So there's already a bunch of stuff going on and we went through a tax audit and hopefully nobody from the IRS watches entre leadership.

[John Felkins]

No, nobody, Nobody. Nobody does.

[Brian]

Chill, chill on that.

[John Felkins]

Nobody from the federal government watches anything. They have no interest in what we're doing. Good, good.

[Brian]

I'm glad we cleared that up. But, you know, we basically, we got an auditor who was just. It was crazy. My accountant was like, brian, I'm having to explain cash versus accrual based accounting to this auditor. And they're not getting, they're not tracking. Ultimately, we were handed a six figure tax bill right after going through the Great Recession and everything like that. And I'm like, what do we do with this? And the answer was, you pay it. You can't afford to fight it.

[John Felkins]

So if it's okay, I'd like to revisit that moment. Like, how did that. How did that news come to you? What did it feel like when it did?

[Brian]

Incredibly, incredibly angry. I remember feeling because of the injustice of it all. Yeah. I'm like, this just isn't right. There was a bit of, God, why me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Like, really? And there was also a lot of fear about, are we going to be able to pull this off? Because we went from having a very small amount of debt and some cash in the bank to clearing that thing out, to having no cash and a bunch of debt. And I had a lot of fear in that season. A lot. And out of that, that's where we came up with. And I think it's straight out of good to great. We came up with the Moving the Mountain campaign and the bhag. Big, hairy, audacious goal.

[John Felkins]

Okay, talk about that.

[Brian]

And it was the two things. And I was very honest with my team, and I did it in a

[John Felkins]

post

[Brian]

on our company intranet. I actually have a PDF that's now almost 20 years old, a printout of what everybody said, because I was just. It was middle of the night. I was just incredibly raw. And I'm like, here's where we're at, guys. This is the inning in the score. And I'm like, we're broke, we're in debt and we're in trouble. And here's my plan. And if you'll go with me on this, we're never going to borrow money again, we're never going to be in debt again, and we're going to have a moat of cash all around us. It was shortly after I'd gone through my very first master series and had kind of like integrated these concepts into what we wanted, what we wanted this to look like. And we spent. We were projected over three years to be completely. To pay off the debt, pay off the line of credit, be completely debt free and have $100,000 in the bank, which is a lot of money. But back then, it was a real. It might as well have been 10 million. Right? It was just, like, impossible. And the responses I got from my team when I was just like, just completely raw. Here's where we're at still makes me emotional to this point, because it was in a moment where I was probably the most scared professionally I've ever been. These people all rallied around me and Were like, we've got this. We can figure this out. Love you. Love being here. And 18 months later, we were completely debt free with $100,000 in cash reserves. And that was the. That was the Moving the Mountain campaign.

[John Felkins]

That's awesome.

[Brian]

And we celebrated that Last year was 25 years of our company. And we took everybody in the company and a guest, and we took them all on a cruise. And I told that story. And it's amazing the impact moments like that have, but they don't make the Instagram highlight reels. But there's those moments, those moments where you're like, man, I don't know if I can do this. I'm really scared of this. I don't know that I'm the right guy for this. Somebody else could probably do it, but he's probably selling a course on Instagram.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Brian]

I'm not this good. I'm not the guy. And those are the moments that really define who you are and the trajectory of the company. And if you try and find a shortcut around those, it doesn't work.

[John Felkins]

Yeah.

[Brian]

It just doesn't.

[John Felkins]

Yeah. And your. And your team is. Is watching how you handle that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[John Felkins]

You know, and you. You being transparent, you being raw and not trying to spin it or. Yeah. Or protect them from that is amazing.

[Brian]

They knew what they were signing up for in that. In that moment.

[John Felkins]

Did they all stay? Did most of them stay?

[Brian]

Every one of them.

[John Felkins]

Every one of them.

[Brian]

Every single one of them.

[John Felkins]

What was the trajectory of the company at that point? Did it still feel like you were just day in and day out grinding? Which I know in some regards, never goes away, but you mentioned good to great. At some point, I know the wheel starts to turn a little bit.

[Brian]

That was at 20 years.

[John Felkins]

That was at 20 years. Okay, so at 10 years, you've got a couple dozen people. Ish. And getting everybody on the same page, even. What's cool to me is it wasn't like you got up and said, hey, here's our core values. You know, like some kind of canned presentation that you put a slide deck together. You just shared your heart and said, y', all, we won't ever go in debt again. This is how I'm gonna take care of this company. This is how I'm gonna take care of you, and this is what matters to me. And people are drawn to that. I mean, they just were like, we're in it with you, Brian.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[John Felkins]

So that's an aligning. You know, you said it. That's like this moment that brands Everybody, Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[John Felkins]

From that moment, when does it start to. You start to get a peek into what this thing could be and the scale and the opportunity in the market?

[Brian]

Yeah. It probably took us longer than it should have because you had the combination of the Great Recession, all this, that all hit at the same time. Right. So that probably slowed the progress some. Would you get past that 10 year mark? Yeah. You learn a lot of lessons in those first 10 years and you put a lot of foundational systems in place in that first decade that you really can grow and expand on. Right. And that's where probably 15 years in is when we really started to see not quite the hockey stick, but you definitely start seeing a continuous trend in the right direction. And you have more margin and flexibility to be able to do things that you didn't. Didn't be able to do that for

[John Felkins]

up to that point. There's challenges to capturing that opportunity. Right. The hockey stick can actually kick you off the merry go round if you're not prepared for it. Talk a little bit about your leadership team, the infrastructure that was the scaffolding that supported that growth. What did you have to do? What did you have to put in place or change?

[Brian]

Let's take the sales process. Whatever you're building for, build it for three steps down the road, build it. The capacity for that, like our sales process is incredibly well defined. And I've got 10 people on our sales team. The sales process and systems and everything we have supporting that. I could have a hundred of them.

[John Felkins]

But was it then when the growth started, was that all in place?

[Brian]

No, we learned to do that. That was one of the lessons we did learn. Like in the latter half of that decade, you start learning. Okay, I'm kind of getting tired of continuously butting up against limits that we've self imposed. Whether it's technology limits or systemic limits or even people. Let's just plan a couple steps ahead. Let's plan for what it could look like in the founder role when you're doing sales. When I talk to people just casually and they're like, how do you transition to that sales team? The rule I have is I build a process and I follow it myself. And if at any point it's based on what only Brian knows, that's a failure in the process and something needs to be fixed. Same thing on the operations side or in finance and client care and whatnot, would you.

[John Felkins]

I want to pause. Why is it a failure if it's only in your head?

[Brian]

Because it won't scale. Why not because there's only one of me.

[John Felkins]

Right.

[Brian]

And I can only be at so many places and so often, so I can. If it's the. I mean, this is Maxwell's law of the lid. Right.

[John Felkins]

Right.

[Brian]

If there's something that only I can do, the organization will only grow to the point at which my bandwidth is tapped to do that thing. And at that point, there is no more growth. No matter what I do, I have to be able to take myself out of the picture and either take that information and teach it to people or standardize it or find a way where it's not needed so that it can continue to scale.

[John Felkins]

As you've done that probably repeatedly throughout the company continuously. Right. Was there ever a moment that you were like, but I was the guy that clients said nice things about or I was the person, like closing the deal and fist pumping when I walked out of the room.

[Brian]

Yeah. Less that, but an extension of that.

[John Felkins]

Okay.

[Brian]

Because the high off scaling kind of offsets that where it really becomes challenging as a founder, where it's like, I went in and did an amazing job and we've had this client for 10 years and whatnot. And we hear a cancellation come through because they didn't like the person or the job they did that I taught to take over. For me, that's where it really sucks. When I'm like, oh, I remember this guy. We had a great rapport. He was a great client. Oh, by the way, so and so screwed it up and they're canceling and I'm like. Because then you do have the thought, if I would have held onto it, this never would have happened. That's where it's really hard. And that's going to happen. That's going to happen.

[John Felkins]

But then, like you said, the flip side of that is if you hold

[Brian]

onto it, you don't scale.

[John Felkins]

You don't scale.

[Brian]

Yeah. And you burn out. I think that's the other thing. Regardless of scale, you can only do that for so long. I mean, I'm 46 at this point. I'm feeling. I'm way younger than you.

[John Felkins]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Very young man. Decades. Yeah.

[John Felkins]

Yeah. High mileage, but younger.

[Brian]

So much truth to that. So much truth to that. But I think that's what a lot of people don't realize is there will come a point at which you burn out. Yeah. If you're not able to really allow your team. Being the hero is exhausting.

[John Felkins]

It sounds like you're saying that from experience.

[Brian]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And the transition can be a little rough. My wife And I talk about the point at which I transitioned purely into leadership management strategy, working more on the business. And I was no longer doing sales. And there was a summer where I wasn't sure what to do with myself. And my wife's like. She's like, it was really weird. I'd walk into your office sometimes and you were like, playing Xbox at two o' clock in the afternoon. Like, don't you have, like a job or something? And. And it was really hard because my deeply ingrained rhythms had all been turned upside down. And the things that we all have, like these go to tasks where it's almost like comfort food. Right. Like, I know I can do this. I can do it really efficiently, really fast. I can check this box off and I can do it really. And those get taken away from me. It's like somebody took your security blanket away. And now I'm having to think about what does our marketing strategy look like for the last year, for the next year? It's way easier to go do a quote.

[John Felkins]

Right.

[Brian]

And it's. That transition caught me by surprise.

[John Felkins]

Yeah. I think it was Henry Ford that said, thinking is the hardest work that we do.

[Brian]

I don't do much of it, so I, you know, whatever.

[John Felkins]

But able to avoid is.

[Brian]

It's so much easier to. To go and do something that has an immediate hit of productivity and evidence of deliverability than to. Like, yesterday, I spent a fair amount of time thinking about some strategic initiatives that we're going to be doing in the second half of this year and throughout 2027. And that still feels. It feels like there's a lot more bandwidth that goes into that. And it's a little more challenging because at the end of the day, you're like, I don't have anything to show for it yet. The amount of. My wife and I have talked about this, that the amount of decisions and things that I touch now are significantly less, but they're significantly more important. It's easier to do the smaller, quicker things.

[John Felkins]

Yeah. Talking to a lot of people in your seat. I think I see that nobody in companies are thinking about where the company should be in three to five years, except for the guy or gal in your seat.

[Brian]

Well, and that's one of the core responsibilities of being in that seat. I mean, people ask me at this point, like, what does your job look like? I'm like, well, I have a few key priorities. One is the strategic direction of the company. Two is to act as a conduit between teams so that we don't have the silo effect, like that's a big part of my job. Three is to relentlessly root out unnecessary complexity. And the fourth is to defend the culture. Yeah, those four things is a full time job.

[John Felkins]

Yeah, yeah. You're in what we call the peak performance stage because you've gotten to kind of like that. You've gone through all these other stages. And the good thing about that stage is you can ride that for years, for decades. Right. It's not about getting beyond that, it's about maintaining that and. And sustaining it. I knew you were going to say the last thing. The defender of the culture. It's easy to get comfortable.

[Brian]

Too easy.

[John Felkins]

Yeah. What does it mean? Talk a little bit about defending the culture. What's that actually look like?

[Brian]

I hired a sales rep a few years ago. Guy was a monster, just absolute rock star. I fired him six months in. He was 300% to his number. And I fired him six months in because he created chaos everywhere he went. And it's so tempting when you see perform, I mean, you see it in big companies all the time where the rock star performers can literally do no wrong if they're in sales and have no boundaries and the rest of the team suffers as a result. Defending the culture means I know this guy's impact to the balance sheet and he needs to go, yeah, that hurts. It hurts. It hurts. I would say that's probably the biggest tangible example of it. It's like what is right for the entire team, not what is expedient or what is easiest for our balance sheet or the numbers.

[John Felkins]

Yeah, so you said how old you are. So you obviously have decades to continue working.

[Brian]

That's the plan.

[John Felkins]

But when you look into the future and you think, what do I want this thing to be? What do I want my company to look like after I'm gone? How do you think about that?

[Brian]

I think about it more now than I did when my age started with a three, I can tell you that. I mean, so many companies in my space, especially private equity, buys them up left and right. They're built to sell.

[John Felkins]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Ours is not built to sell.

[John Felkins]

Why not?

[Brian]

I don't want to. That's not what I'm supposed to do. I mean, sure, the money's good, everything like that, but if I were to pick the destiny for this company, my hope is that one of these, one of these people that is working here right now, that's maybe in there, you know, a little bit younger than me, or maybe a guy who just started here, a guy or gal who's in their, in their 20s and is just getting into Advantage Tech. My hope is that over the next 20 years we're going to identify that next generation of leaders. And ultimately I take a five year transition and I have that person walk alongside me and then I hand it over to them.

[John Felkins]

Why do you want that as the future versus an ESOP or selling the company to somebody else?

[Brian]

Yeah. So an ESOP may be on the table at some point. Right. Because that's very. It doesn't materially change the experience for the employees. It's not built for private equity. Because this is really about. I mean, yeah, I want to make good money at it. I work hard, I want to do that. You know, jet fuel's expensive, you know, all the things. But really, if I can create this, if I can create this environment where these people can come and thrive and take care of their families and enjoy their career, that's what I'm supposed to do. And in not all cases, but in every case I've come across, if you're building it for private equity to sell it in a defined timeline, those two things are kind of incompatible. Maybe I'm wrong and who knows? I don't know what the future holds, but if you asked, what would I want it to look like? I'd want it to look like that, where it has provided a great life for me and for a bunch of other people. And that environment that provides a great opportunity for a bunch of people outlives me.

[John Felkins]

We'll get right back to our episode, but first I want to talk about company culture for a minute. A vision statement is important, but it's not a company culture. Friday pizza parties aren't either. Your company culture is what your team feels like, like when they work there. And here's something I've learned. Overwhelmed leaders create overwhelmed teams. If you're constantly reactive, buried in your inbox, and running from meeting to meeting, that stress eventually becomes your culture. That's why I love Belay. Belay matches you with executive assistants who can take those repetitive day to day tasks off your plate and help you get some margin back in your calendar. And margin matters because when leaders finally have the space to think, communicate clearly and cast vision, healthy culture gets built on purpose, not by accident. And look, I know the people at Belay. I've worked with Tricia, their CEO and their leadership team. They love small business owners. And right now, Belay has a free resource for you. It's called Culture Clarity. And you can download it for free by texting. Entrez to 5, 5 1, 2, 3. That's Entr to 5, 5, 1, 2, 3. Now let's get back to the episode. What has been your mindset or what has been your relationship with Advantage Tech through all of these years that has brought you to a place where you haven't burned out? You're thinking about what's best for the team. You want to continue to serve customers. And the success is not something to be apologized for.

[Brian]

Sure.

[John Felkins]

But it also, as I listen to you, doesn't seem like the highest goal that you have. Am I wrong about that?

[Brian]

No. No. So the things that keep me grounded, I guess number one is my faith. I think all of this is a lot bigger than just me and a dollar sign. Right. And so I view a lot of this. I view all of this through the context of a larger plan. When I say this is what I'm supposed to do, I genuinely believe this is what I'm supposed to do. I don't do it perfectly, but I give it my best effort. And I believe God blesses that. And so that has helped keep me grounded, that this isn't some amazing thing that I created by my incredible intellect and comment success. And I'll send you the link to my course. It's just not.

[John Felkins]

We really hate the courses.

[Dave Ramsey]

We really hate.

[Brian]

I hate them so much.

[John Felkins]

Cause it's.

[Brian]

Why?

[John Felkins]

Why do you hate that so much?

[Brian]

Because it's a lie. It's a lie because it's a lie. And for all the guys and gals who are out there right now, who are literally just, okay, I know I can make it. I'm pretty sure I can make it. It calls into question the integrity of what they're doing. It makes it seem like they're getting it wrong and they're wasting their efforts. And the exact opposite is true. It's a lie and it's a scam. And so, yeah, I hate it because it diminishes the work that so many people are doing. It diminishes the work of The Brian of 20 years ago, who would wake up in a hotel and look down at his BlackBerry to figure out what city he was in. Like, multiple. Like, it diminishes all of that. And it pisses me off because it's wrong. And so I think, to go back to your question, I think my faith grounds me. I think my marriage has been a big help in all this. My wife's been incredibly supportive in all of this. She raised four kids. At one point, when I was talking about all of that that was happening. We had four kids under five. Oh, and by the way, we had just moved from Michigan to Florida, so we pretty much knew nobody. And then all of that hit, and she was just rock solid through all of that. And we've been there for each other. So I think that's the second thing. And I think in the professional context, I look at Advantage Tech as a gift, and I look at it with humility and gratitude. I've learned that I'm grateful that I say this to my team all the time. These are some incredibly talented people that could choose to work anywhere. I'm grateful, and it is the highest compliment I can give that they choose to work here and build this with me. We work together in building this, and I think they see that, and I am incredibly grateful that I get to do that. That is a very different perspective than I've created this thing. And I'm gonna put it through this grinder so I can get to this number. So I can just sell it and hand it off to somebody else. Maybe I'll sell it someday, but I don't see that in the path.

[John Felkins]

Yeah, that's not why you're doing it.

[Brian]

No, no, it's not why I'm doing it.

[John Felkins]

You've obviously, you know, just knowing you, you don't need to work anymore.

[Brian]

I got four kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Come on now.

[Brian]

I don't. Okay, fair enough.

[John Felkins]

You know, you don't need to work like you did, right, when you stole the server and the computer from your former employees.

[Brian]

It was given to me. I didn't steal it in case the IRS is watching.

[John Felkins]

Requisitioned it.

[Brian]

Requisitioned.

[John Felkins]

That's right. You weren't gonna get. So that's fair, right?

[Brian]

That's right. Yeah.

[John Felkins]

So why. Why keep pushing so hard? Why keep driving forward?

[Brian]

Yeah, I mean, a, I love what I do. B, I love the people I do it with. C, I feel really grateful that I get to do it, and D, I find. I find a lot of purpose and meaning in it. Like, I enjoy what I do, and I. It makes an impact.

[John Felkins]

What's the thing? Like, I know you've heard us say our success is seeing somebody like you succeed. And I know we only play a small part in that, but still, it drives us because we love seeing it.

[Brian]

What do you.

[John Felkins]

What's the moment with your audience, with your. With your customers that you love to see happen between your team and the customer?

[Brian]

And so, I mean, when we get either an email or something where they're follow up and they're like, you guys took what was an incredibly stressful situation and you just, you made it that much better. I mean, think about, we do it infrastructure, right? So everything, everything and every business at this point runs on it, right? If I drop the ball, the entire business stops. And so probably the best story that I can use to embody this is we had, we had a dental practice that had just transitioned. They were getting all new digital 3D stuff and it was a massive investment for this doctor. And he owned the practice. He's an entrepreneur, just like I am. And we were doing the install and we were finishing up. And so everything's starting to come alive and he's starting to realize all of the possibilities that all of this new stuff is going to help him deliver better patient care and new options. And he pulled one of my guys aside. He said, this was my Christmas present to myself. Like, I just made a huge investment in the practice. And like, seeing all this, seeing all this, I'm like, oh my word, this is actually going to happen. And you could tell that because we had done a good job and had done what we said we were going to do and made all of this work, he was now going to have people coming into his business and having a better experience built partially on what we had delivered to him. And I love that in an era where almost everything's dependent on technology, we're a mission critical piece of keeping any business running. And so to be able to deliver that, there's a bit of a high that comes from that and it's just kind of fun.

[John Felkins]

A couple of random questions. You talked a little bit about the plane that we're sitting in front of. I think I remember a moment you telling me that the plane was paid off. Yeah, that was a big moment for you, wasn't it?

[Brian]

It was a big moment. Yeah, it was when we bought, when we bought the Mustang.

[John Felkins]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And I just realized, I'm like, oh, wow. This is like, we're here. We've worked so hard, hard to get here and we're here. It was another one of those definitive moments. Yeah, there's highs and lows, right? Those definitive moments can be both.

[John Felkins]

Yeah.

[Brian]

I have enjoyed the highs. I've learned more from the lows.

[John Felkins]

I hate that.

[Brian]

I know it sucks so bad, but I mean, a great example is like, I had a friend ask me a while ago, like, what's the next plane? And I'm like, I don't think there is. He's like, well, that's. You're a type A it was like, what's the next? And I said, here's the thing. Anything else I could get is going to materially impact the balance sheet. I'm going to have to go into debt for it. So unless things dramatically change, very happy where I'm at.

[John Felkins]

Well, and you're a guy that loves to fly the plane.

[Brian]

Yes.

[John Felkins]

So you get much bigger than this. You're riding in the back and somebody else is flying the plane. And that's not your jam.

[Brian]

That's not real.

[John Felkins]

Right. That's not your thing. I do remember you saying one time though, homie doesn't fly commercial.

[Brian]

I probably was making fun of you as you were getting on a Southwest jet.

[John Felkins]

There's a good chance, actually I was stuck in Chicago because of bad weather and I called you and you said, I can come get you. You have to pay for the gas. And this is why homie never flies commercial.

[Brian]

Yeah, that is, if I remember correctly. That is true. It is rare if I can avoid it. It's one of the privileges of where I'm at at this point of my career and I don't take it for granted.

[John Felkins]

I know that that's true and it is a privilege. But you have gotten to the place and it's a part of who you are to fly. But it's also a tool.

[Brian]

Oh, it's an amazing tool.

[John Felkins]

I mean, it's like a time machine in a way, isn't it?

[Brian]

The number of times where, you know, I've gone and, okay, I'm gonna leave first thing in the morning and I'm gonna have some meetings and lunch in Orlando and then I'm gonna be in the afternoon and meet somebody and have coffee in Atlanta and I'm gonna be home for dinner. That's a three day trip otherwise. And to be able to do that as the productivity that it gives me and some leaders within the organization, it's massive. It's a huge efficiency gain. Yeah.

[John Felkins]

And I really love that you agreed to do this and have the interview here, but we asked you to do it. At no point did you suggest, hey, could we do this in front of my plane? It was like we had to talk you into it because this isn't what it's about for you. It's about all of the other things that you've talked about. And I love how that speaks to who you are as a leader and who you are as a man. And part of why I love hanging out.

[Brian]

No, it's super fun. You're right. It's not my Choice of venue. Plus for the record, it's like 90 degrees in here with 1,000% humidity. They have an air conditioned studio somewhere.

[John Felkins]

I didn't realize you couldn't afford electricity, that you spend all your money on jet fuel.

[Brian]

On a budget, buddy.

[John Felkins]

On a budget. I just thought electricity and running water was kind of something that went with the deal.

[Brian]

Yeah, well, you would think. I think what I do enjoy about this is again, speaking to certain people in your audience, but speaking to the, to The Brian of 15, 20 years ago, who is flying around an airplane from the 70s, you know that that costs less than just about everybody's car.

[John Felkins]

Yeah. At this point wondering, what is that new.

[Brian]

What is that noise?

[John Felkins]

What is that noise?

[Brian]

Yeah, what is that?

[John Felkins]

And your wife going, what do you

[Brian]

mean, what is that noise? She didn't really like flying with me in that one. It was a little rough sometimes. But if I would have quit.

[John Felkins]

Yeah.

[Brian]

There are a lot of people who are raising their families, working in an environment they love, and they'd be stuck in corporate America. If I would have quit, I wouldn't have had the freedom, as my kids are now getting older, to be able to have some flexibility, to be able to do things with them. I would have been working someplace where somebody else dictated that schedule and it just wouldn't have happened. If I would have quit, this wouldn't be here. It's a nice token of a certain level of success. I get that. If I would have given up, if I would have given in to my fear, if I would have just said, you know what, I'll go work in corporate America. There's a really nice salary attached to a guy like me. This all would have gone away. And so I think that's the prevailing message that I'd like to Communicate to the me of 20 years ago is ignore the influencer on Instagram, ignore the guy on TikTok that's trying to sell you a course and is making you have that self doubt of am I doing something wrong? Am I missing it somehow? Because that guy who's so supremely confident that he knows all the shortcuts and all the hacks, he rented the seat in the plane, he rented the. He doesn't know.

[John Felkins]

He doesn't know it. Yeah, I love that last question. Just kind of your knee jerk reaction to what do you think holds people back?

[Brian]

I think fear. I think fear holds people back.

[John Felkins]

Fear of what?

[Brian]

Loss. Fear of loss. Like, okay, am I going to, Am I gonna make the wrong decision and have a very bad impact on Me and those around me. I know that's a very personal one for me. I think there's a lot of self doubt of, okay, somebody else might be able to pull this out. But I don't have that skill set. I don't have that level that compares. Especially in a culture as much as we've joked about it, where everybody on social media appears to have it all together, they don't have it all together. And I have at this point known some people who have magnitudes of success way beyond anything that I'll probably ever achieve. Guys who are worth 100 million plus that I've had the privilege to just get to know a little bit. They're not nearly as confident as your standard TikTok influencers selling you a course. They're still going through the thing of, all right, I might screw it up, but that's okay. I'm gonna try. And this isn't going according to plan, but that's okay. I'm gonna stick it through.

[John Felkins]

Yeah, I'm not gonna quit.

[Brian]

I'm not gonna quit. I can do this. This is what I'm supposed to do. And I am the guy. I'm the guy I'm looking for. And I think that fear, uncertainty and doubt holds a lot of people, including me, back. And it's something you just continuously battle and step into the next level of no, I am the guy. I do have the talent, I do have the wisdom. I do have the right people and I can take this risk.

[John Felkins]

Thank you, Brian.

[Brian]

Yeah, man. It's a privilege.

[Dave Ramsey]

There are no shortcuts to success. It takes years of showing up, doing the work, getting better and refusing to quit. So if you're in that season right now where it's heavy, it's slow, and it feels like nobody sees what you're

[Brian]

doing, you're not behind.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the reality every business owner has had to to work through, me included. Stay in it, keep grinding, keep learning. And if you want to learn how to grow your business the right way, our entree leadership coaching team works with business owners every day and we can help you get clear, get aligned and move forward. So click the link in the description to schedule a free 30 minute call with one of our coaches. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, like share and subscribe for more real world leadership content. I'm your host, Dave Ramsey, and this is entree leadership.