My Dad Doesn’t Trust Me to Make Decisions for the Business

Summary

The EntreLeadership Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: My Dad Doesn’t Trust Me to Make Decisions for the Business
Host: Dave Ramsey (Ramsey Network)
Date: September 15, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of The EntreLeadership Podcast, Dave Ramsey engages with a series of callers facing real business and leadership dilemmas. The main theme centers around family business transitions—specifically, the challenges of succession, founder's syndrome, systems handoff, and building trust between generations. Additional calls touch on profit-sharing expectations, choosing a business coach, and managing debt in small business partnerships. With over three decades of leadership experience, Dave provides both tactical advice and personal reflection, emphasizing the emotional hurdles behind practical business decisions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Business Succession & Founder’s Syndrome

Caller: Danny, New York – Family Wholesale Floral Business
Time: [00:48] – [15:46]

The Situation:

• Danny, 28, works in his father’s $3.8M floral business and wants to expand by hiring salespeople.
• The father (57) keeps all pricing, purchasing, and vendor information “in his head,” fearing loss of control.
• The family faces barriers to growth as the business's essential knowledge isn't systematized or delegated.

Dave’s Coaching & Insights:

• Systemless Success Holds the Business Hostage:

  “Good business practices work. And what he’s doing sucks. It’s a horrible system.”
  (Dave, [07:13])

• Founder’s Syndrome Framed:

  “We hold on so tightly that we kill the very things that we love, the business and the family. And so...”
  (Dave, [11:44])

• Emotional Dimension of Letting Go:

  “When you plan your succession, you are planning to become less important. If your plan works, you’re screwed. Because you’re less important.”
  (Dave, [12:13])

• Advice – Lead with Honor, Not Force:
  • Approach the founder with honor, recognizing his achievements.
  • Use language that alleviates fears of being pushed out, e.g., “Dad, you’re the GOAT. Help us make this transition so your legacy flourishes.”
  • Make it about ensuring the business—and his life’s work—is sustainable, not about stripping away his control.

Practical Steps Suggested:

• Try introducing new systems as a 90-day experiment, not a permanent shift.
• Suggest someone shadow the founder, recording decisions and pricing in real time.
• Direct and empathetic conversations about the need for an eventual handoff.

Memorable Quote:

“If your two ears aren’t here, we’re screwed. So, Dad, you’re the goat. And you gotta help us with this transition, because someday you’re not gonna be here, and we’ve gotta have a system that replaces the awesome thing that you have done.”
(Dave, [09:13])

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2. Profit Sharing Expectations & Employee Entitlement

Caller: Mike, Philadelphia – Industrial Distribution Company
Time: [20:20] – [32:54]

The Situation:

• Mike manages a $15M family business, historically distributing 100% of profits to employees/owners as bonuses.
• Recent struggles forced the company to scale back bonuses, leading to resentment, especially from veteran staff.
• Employees reacted to reduced payouts with entitlement (“If you ever do that again, I’ll walk out”).

Dave’s Coaching & Insights:

• Profit Sharing is a Gift, Not a Guarantee:

  “We are not obligated to give it to you, but we have chosen as an act of kindness to share with the people that run the business with us.”
  (Dave, [25:51])

• Dismantling Entitlement:

  “I have done a poor job of communicating this. And the problem with this crap is you have to say it over and over … about the time you get sick of hearing it, that’s about the time they hear it.”
  (Dave, [29:45])

• Addressing Disrespectful Employees:

  “If you ever do that again, I’ll walk out is the last conversation I have with that person. You don’t freaking threaten me. I own this. You are confused.”
  (Dave, [24:26])

Tactical Advice:

• Reframe profit sharing regularly and publicly as something based on actual, not projected, profits.
• Repeat messaging until no misunderstanding remains.
• Let go of employees who do not align with company values or display entitlement.

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3. Vetting and Utilizing a Business Coach

Caller: Patrick, Houston – Commercial Roofing Company
Time: [32:54] – [41:49]

The Situation:

• Patrick seeks advice on how to evaluate and partner with a business coach and to clarify the coach’s ideal role.

Dave’s Coaching & Insights:

• A Great Business Coach Should:
  • Pay for themselves through tangible value (increased revenue, reduced stress, operational improvements).
  • Provide both accountability and actionable business acumen.
  • Have proven track records (“What other businesses have you coached, what were the results?”).
  • Help stage-appropriate growth (leadership team development, strategic planning).
• The Loneliness of Leadership:

  “The loneliness, so to speak, it’s a type … there’s nobody to talk to about this crap, right?”
  (Dave, [35:23])

Practical Vetting Tips:

• Ask for stories of real, sustained client success.
• Avoid coaches with little/no experience in business growth.

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4. Managing Debt and Clarity in Family Partnerships

Caller: Sarah, Cleveland – Furniture & Hardware Business
Time: [41:49] – [53:03]

The Situation:

• Multiple businesses with unclear ownership, tracking, and division of labor between spouses.
• Debt accumulated of $80,000, mostly on credit cards and loans.
• Lack of financial insight and sharing compounded operational inefficiencies.

Dave’s Coaching & Insights:

• Necessity of Clarity:

  “No one’s watching the accounting. No one knows what’s going on. You don’t even know your numbers on the hardware store.”
  (Dave, [51:01])

• Empowerment Through Systems:
  • “If I had just your [furniture] business, I could recover it in 20 minutes … get that business back up to $2 million by yourself … pay off the $80,000 in debt in 20 minutes.”
  • Emphasized separating the businesses for operational clarity, ensuring each partner has insight and control over their respective domain.
• Suggest working with a coach for an unbiased, holistic business plan.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On succession:

  “When you plan your succession, you are planning to become less important. If your plan works, you’re screwed.”
  (Dave, [12:13])

• On founder’s syndrome:

  “We hold on so tightly that we kill the very things that we love, the business and the family.”
  (Dave, [11:44])

• On profit sharing entitlement:

  “Profits happen when revenues go up and expenses go down.”
  (Ramsey CFO T-shirt anecdote, [29:45])

• On accountability and coaching:

  “A coach should be able to add value and hold you accountable—push you into the discomfort of change.”
  (Dave, [40:32])

• Final encouragement:

  “Better a wary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead.”
  (Dave, [53:07])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Family Business Succession (Danny): [00:48] – [15:46]
• Profit Sharing/Employee Entitlement (Mike): [20:20] – [32:54]
• Vetting a Business Coach (Patrick): [32:54] – [41:49]
• Managing Debt in Small Partnerships (Sarah): [41:49] – [53:03]

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Takeaways

• Systems, transparency, and communication are critical as businesses transfer from founder to next generation.
• A founder’s emotional attachment is often the greatest obstacle—requires patience, empathy, and honor to overcome.
• Profit sharing must be consistently, explicitly communicated as variable and discretionary.
• High-quality business coaching delivers both tough accountability and practical growth insights.
• Business health depends on financial clarity and aligned leadership, especially in family-run environments.

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For more actionable leadership insights or to participate in future episodes, visit The EntreLeadership Podcast.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is entree leadership, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you've got a question you want to ask on the show, fill out the [e-mail] ask or call and leave us a voicemail at 844-944-1070. That's 844-944-1071. Danny is in New York. Hey, Danny. How are you?

[A]

Good, Dave. How are you?

[B]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[A]

Okay, so my name is Danny. I work for my family's wholesale floral business. And my question is, after 35 years, my dad has worked very hard to get the company to where it is, but everything's kind of close to his chest. So now we want to hire salesman, and it's getting very difficult to get him to give up some of the control he has that we can have information available for salesmen to sell.

[B]

How old are you?

[A]

I am 28.

[B]

How old is he?

[A]

57.

[B]

And he started this 30 years ago.

[A]

So he actually, his uncle started the business, and he worked for his uncle for many years. And the business as it exists now, he opened in 2012.

[B]

Okay. Wholesale. So you're selling to florists?

[A]

I sell to florist. Our biggest line of business is grocery store bouquets.

[B]

Okay, so you're selling to grocery stores. Okay.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. That's the major. We do. We do a lot of different things. He. We do everything.

[B]

Okay, and how many people work there?

[A]

We have about 15 employees right now.

[B]

Okay. And your dad's obviously the president, CEO, founder, whatever. And your position is what.

[A]

You'Re putting a title on them? Probably are. Like our warehouse manager. I oversee our warehouse and deliveries and fill in wherever I'm needed. It's small.

[B]

Who's doing sales now?

[A]

That is the problem. No one.

[B]

How have they been making sales?

[A]

Your dad made them existing customers.

[B]

Well, because you get an existing customer, you had the same customer for 30 years.

[A]

Some of his customers he has.

[B]

I know, but not all of them. How do you get on?

[A]

Most of the. The only new customers we've attracted in the last few years have been word of mouth.

[B]

So they came to you.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

Okay, and what's your total revenue?

[A]

Last year, I believe we did about 3.8 million in revenue.

[B]

15 team members. Okay, so what information does your dad need to give up in order to Hire a salesman. I'm not sure why a salesman.

[A]

Okay. So the biggest issue comes down to foil. It's all market market value. Everything changes week to week. And he orders over the phone with salesman. And. And, you know, I can't price something out to go pitch it to a store because the information is in his head, and I can't get it in order to come up with, like, hey.

[B]

You know, doing sales. No one's doing sales.

[A]

Yes. And if I. But my thing is, if I want to be able to do sales, I need to have a database so I can sit there and price things out.

[B]

Okay. So these stores place an order and have no idea what they're paying for it. Or he's. He's just establishing this week a. This bouquet cost me however many dollars, and it's different than last week. And he changes the prices to his customers every week based on what he pays.

[A]

Yeah. Like our sales, like, just for example, like, if we have a 1699 bouquet, he'll base that. He'll base the recipe for that bouquet off of the market price of stems to fit into the 1699 retail. So the bouquet is the same price, but how it looks might change from really month to month depending on the market.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. And everybody accepts that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So why do you need a change? Because they're paying the same for it. Only thing that's changing is the flowers.

[A]

The biggest issue is, like, now he, like, the next level of expansion is selling to the flower shops. And that's where I really need, like, a salesman's help. But if I go to sell, like right now, if I walked in somewhere and said, hey, I'd like to sell you a box of daisies. And they said, okay, how much? I'd have to say, I don't know. Let me call my dad. I have no way of finding out. And then when I call him, he doesn't have it written anywhere. He's got a. I don't really know how he comes up with pricing when we do sell the flower shops.

[B]

Okay. But he's buying a box of daisies from the daisy farmer, and he's paying for that. Who's paying the bill?

[A]

That's my brother and accountant. You know, one of my brothers does all of our accounting work. But it doesn't, so far as I know, because this is where, like, it's a different side of the business for me. When. When his invoices come in, most of it's not itemized, and we're getting them normally two weeks after We've received it. So now that price is already outdated.

[B]

Yeah, but how do we. How does your brother know what he promised the daisy farmer? What your dad promised? Because it's in his head. No purchase order system, obviously.

[A]

No, no. And that. So, okay, I guess that really is. My question is like, my dad's very set in his ways. My brothers and I, we want to create a system so we can log orders as they're happening with the price that we agreed to pay because he's agreeing to pay over the phone when he orders, but not sharing it. So I'm guess I'm trying to convince him to work with us to share the information into a computer system. This way we can hire a salesman to. To do the work, and we'll be able to offer customers pricing on the spot, not, you know, whenever my dad has time to find it.

[B]

Yeah. So when you ask him to do that, what does he say?

[A]

He gets kind of his. His explanation is that it just wouldn't work. He doesn't have a detailed answer that he's given me. He's, you know, he says it doesn't work, but there's other competitors on the island, that it's working for them.

[B]

Oh, good business. You know, that's absolute bull crap. Good business practices work. And what he's doing sucks. It's horrible system. It's a horrible system. Of course it'll work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the point is that. Not that at all, but the point is, what's he protect? What's he. It's a control thing, isn't it?

[A]

I think so. He. He has admitted to me, like, part of his rationale is like, he doesn't trust someone else enough to represent his business for him to go do sales. So that's another issue.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's fair. Okay, so we don't want to. So he doesn't want to expand. So he's planning to die. Because you're either growing or you're dying, dude.

[A]

I've used that exact phrase with him. You know, he. He says. He says he wants to do the sales and he wants to go do themselves. The other problem is he wants to step back from the business now. And between me and my brothers, we're able to run things just fine. But if we want to expand so that there's a future for us at the company, we. We need him to.

[B]

If he steps back, does it not get him out of the way?

[A]

No, because he, like, the biggest problem is that he's not recording. Recording the price that he pays for orders.

[B]

So if he steps back, he quits doing the ordering, doesn't he?

[A]

That's the one area that he has not let go of yet. Like, he won't let go of that part of the business. I had a very hard time coming up with what question I was going to ask. It's. It's.

[B]

No, I'm just trying to weed around in this and that's funny. And figure out what's going on. But the.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. When you're dealing with someone with founder syndrome, which I have and your dad has, we're hard heads. We're the people that gutted it out and made it while you were still in your short pants.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

So you're dealing with that. And the best way to approach it is not a baseball bat. It doesn't work because founders have seen a baseball bat before and will turn it and use it on you. So that's not the plan. Instead, let's try honor. Dad, I want to honor you and your brother, the accountant, Steve. Whatever his name is. We want to honor you. You've worked so hard here. You've done things in freaking New York that no one else has been able to do. You built a business that has survived and has repeat customers that are happy. We have a great reputation, and it's all because of you. We don't want to lose that. We don't want to disappoint the work that you have done. We want to make sure that it runs better. And all we're trying to do is to make it better. We're not trying to steal something. You're the dog. You're the goat. You're the one that did this. And let's try honor and then say, we really want to try something new. Would you please let us try it for 90 days? But the reason we want to try it is not to steal something from you, but instead we want to make sure that we honor you by this business flourishing and growing that you've spent your life on. We don't want to see this thing struggle. And we're scared if we don't put some systems in place that we're not going to be able to grow at least a little bit. And we're dependent upon everything being between your two ears. And if your two ears aren't here, we're screwed. So, dad, you're the goat. And you gotta help us. You know, you gotta help us with this transition, because someday you're not gonna be here, and we've gotta Have a system that replaces the awesome thing that you have done. And so help us make that transition to that system so that we can do that. Something approaching it like that, that's your only shot. And even then, you just gotta know it's hard for him to let go. Yeah, it's just emotional. And as I have backed out of different things around Ramsey and done less and less, it's just emotional. It's part of it. But it's also necessary for me to do that. It's necessary for him to do it, to allow good ideas to come in that he didn't have and to allow growth and to allow the next generation to carry something, to honor your legacy. Because otherwise you're killing your own thing, you're killing your own kids, you're killing your own business when you don't let stuff go. And that's founder syndrome, is what that is. We hold on so tightly that we kill the very things that we love, the business and the family. And so.

[A]

Can I ask you.

[B]

Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

You know, you mentioned that you had to do it. It's an emotional process. So what in your head did you have to let go of to be comfortable doing, to be comfortable letting go of?

[B]

Well, here's the thing. When you plan your succession, you are planning to become less important. If your plan works, you're screwed. Cause you're less important.

[A]

Yes, that's a great problem.

[B]

You know, I mean, so I planned for this place to not be dependent upon me and dad Gump. It didn't work. You know, and that's emotional. So the higher version of your dad, the higher version of Dave, the better version was, wants to be a blessing to the business and to his kids. The lower version is still a four year old boy that wants to be recognized for being the goat.

[A]

That makes a lot of sense.

[B]

And I have to say that to myself out loud sometimes. So we changed the show, the Ramsey show, from the Dave Ramsey show to the Ramsey show so that it wasn't necessary for me to be on it. Yes, that was emotional for me. You know who else cared? No one. And that was upsetting. We didn't even announce it. We just started doing it. And no one commented. Not the, not the employees, not the. Not the audience. Nobody noticed but me. And that's okay. I'm making fun of myself, but that's, you know, that's how that works. Right. And so. But you've got to do that in your higher version of you to protect the things that you love, which is the business you spent your life on and on your family, which you love. You want your sons to prosper. Honey, it's me talking to your dad. Right? You want them to prosper and you want them to do good. And they're not total doofuses. You trained them. If they're doofuses, it's your fault. You trained them. And so you gotta learn to trust in that stuff. But what he's dealing with is just the emotion of becoming less important. You are dependent. The whole operation is dependent upon him pulling these numbers out of his head.

[A]

And after, if you take that away.

[B]

From him, he's not important anymore.

[A]

Well, yes, you know, he does a good job, but I'm noticing, you know, a few years ago we were only doing 2 and a half, 3 million in revenue. And the larger we've gotten, the harder it is on him. Yeah, but he still wants to do it.

[B]

I know, but that's my point. It's dependent upon him and he's facing his own mortality when he says it's not dependent on me anymore. But you gotta have some discussions about Founder syndrome with him directly and just go, dad, listen, we don't wanna do anything except honor you, but if you don't turn these things loose, you're gonna sow the seeds of destruction in this place. Okay, because if we.

[A]

I think you got my real question. That's, that's my real question here.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, and I don't know, I'm. I'm trying to give you a grasp of how emotional this is for him, but it's also not to excuse him.

[A]

Yeah, no, I didn't even think about like, does he feel like we're kicking him out? I didn't even think that way.

[B]

So it's kind of like if your parents haven't done a will and you sit down, try to get them to do a will, they go, oh, you just want my money?

[A]

Work on that next.

[B]

There you go. And you know, and it's like, you don't want their money. I want a plan is what I want. I want a freaking plan. I don't want to spend my time in probate court because you won't write down who's supposed to get the freakin baseball card collection. Oh my God, get a will. You know, and so don't want the.

[A]

Government to get half.

[B]

Exactly. And I don't want the government to tell me what to do either. They already do too much. And so get a will. But it's the exact same emotion. Some parents go, oh, I don't wanna talk about it. Cause you're just coming over here trying to get stuff and I'm not dead yet. And it's like oh brother, no, but you're gonna be. And at that point I'm screwed. Cause you can't write down a plan. And that's the same. But it's the same. It's the same set of stuff in your brain. It's your lizard brain trying to protect your importance. And you know, they don't really think that kids are trying to get their money. They don't really think that. But they say that out loud because they, they are used to being in control. And doing a will is admitting that someday I'm going to die. Which by the way, we've done research. You're going to die. So you need a will and got to get ready. And so that's the same thing of turning over pieces of the business and gradually and so forth. And you know what I would maybe say is dad, you've got all these relationships with these vendors, these, these farmers. I want you to keep those relationships. Those are super valuable. All we're asking is that I'm gonna put somebody right beside you. And every time you give, every time you get a number in your head, you're gonna give it to George and George is gonna write it down and put it in the system. I don't even want you putting stuff in the system. You're too valuable on the relationship side. But carrying all this around and you being the only computer that runs the business is going to kill us. When you die, we're going to be out of business because we don't know your numbers and that's not okay. And you're going to die someday and so am I and so is everybody else here. And so we've got to have a plan. Could have some bench depth and you know, I don't know if all that'll work. If it doesn't work then, you know, you just got to face it and decide what, you know, what your options are. Do you work somewhere else or do you, you know, ride this horse until it falls over and see if we can revive it? You know, I don't know. There's a thing but it's very emotional and we deal with it. With small businesses all over America that are family owned, that the Founder syndrome is very real. It is the most difficult of all the transitions. Gen 1 to Gen 2. Gen 2 is much more business like to Gen 3, much more business like to Gen 4. But Gen 1 to Gen 2 is emotional because it's got founder syndrome on it. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us do work or replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 42,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one AI cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting can help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not just weeks, you spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's [e-mail] Ramsey if you're stuck in the day to day operations of your business and it feels like there's never enough time for the important work that actually grows your business, well, you got to come to the Entree Leadership Master Series. This conference is where business owners like you come to get a custom growth plan and learn the tactical strategies that'll take the most, that'll make the most of your time and your resources. Join US in Frisco, Texas right outside Dallas this October 19 through 24. EntreeLeadership.com Masterseries Click the link in the show notes and get your ticket. We'd love to have you. Mike's in Philadelphia. Hey Mike, how can I help?

[A]

Hey Dave, it's a pleasure to meet you. I've been following you for 20 plus years at this point.

[B]

Thank you sir.

[A]

Big part of my financial literacy and knowledge over the years and I was calling I run a $15 million a year industrial distribution company, have about 16 employees and kind of a split between a lot of 30 plus year veterans and then kind of the new crowd that is 10 or years or less. I stepped into management about four years ago. We're family owned, have been for a few generations and a practice that we've always had that I kind of got passed down is that at the end of the year we would distribute our profits so profit sharing is something we've always done, but it has always been that all profits are distributed between ownership and employee. And so. And in some ways that distribution was a way to bonus an employee more so than it was framed as profit sharing. But in their experience it's always been a ever increasing, every so often payment that comes every year to them. And so as we've grown and kind of our market shifted, it's harder and harder to make that work. Plus it allows us to not have anything retained for our own, you know, operating in case of a rainy day or for growth initiatives that we might want to undertake. So sort of had to step that down due to kind of a tough year and realized that ultimately that's not the best way to do a profit sharing model. Not very typical to do it that way. But obviously we've gotten a lot of rough feedback and kind of bad attitude from the longtime employees. We pay market wages, we pay full health care. I think we compensate pretty fairly. But I'm just kind of wondering what your experience has been where you've had to kind of adjust the payment not in a upward way, but maybe in a downward way or give out less than what someone's used to because of an operating, you know, the environment, the economy, whatever it would be. Just wanted to see your feedback on that and maybe your perspective how you do that in a way as a leader that's, you know, I care for my people but I also have to run a bottom line. So kind of that.

[B]

So you just didn't have as much profit to distribute. It's that simple.

[A]

It's that simple.

[B]

Plus I'm sharing profits, but the profits aren't as big.

[A]

Yeah. And we've always given away 100% and that's not something we should probably keep doing. We need to retain profit for operations a little more frequently. I think for.

[B]

You need some retained earnings before you do profit sharing.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

And that cut into it. But also profits are down.

[A]

They were down last year. This year we're back. But we have to. We're recovering from a bad year. So it's really a two year journey to get healthy again where we want to be. So that's been a fun stretch for the last six months. But yeah, we're limit.

[B]

What's the cash being used to recover? I don't understand. If your profits are up, why are you needing cash to recover?

[A]

Well, overall we had a lot, so we're recovering. We operate a business with payables because customers pay us on terms, we pay vendors on Terms. So the payables got expanded a bit and we're using the profits to recover kind of extended payment balances with vendors. So we'll clean it up over time. Yeah. Does that make sense? Like what. What's happening there? Profitable this year? We're paying.

[B]

We're only profitable because you didn't pay your bills.

[A]

So last year we didn't. We didn't have a profit and we paid a much smaller bonus. Almost nothing.

[B]

So what did they say?

[A]

Then we sat down and they were, if you ever do that again, I'll walk out. Things like that. And I said, it's okay. I don't. It's profit sharing, guys. It's not a promise to you. It's not a guaranteed part of your.

[B]

If you ever do that again, I'll walk out is the last conversation I have with that person, okay? You don't freaking threaten me. I own this. You are confused.

[A]

I think part of the difficulty is that I am. These are. People have been there longer than me. I've only been there.

[B]

I don't care how long they've been there. They're fired that day, okay? You don't threaten the person that owns the business.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

I don't do threats, okay? The profits are down. This was sharing of profits. I can't share something I don't have. If you ever do that again, I'll leave. You're gone. Don't worry about it.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

Over. End of story, you entitled little twerp. This is entitlement. It's arrogance. Now let me go back and fix that now that I've already fired that guy, okay? He's gone. If I'm you, I'm firing him today. You go back to the office and fire him. I'm so over this guy right now, okay? Now, because that's. That's somebody that didn't understand. Now, then that means that you and your family have done a horrible job of framing what profit sharing is. We made that mistake one time at Ramsey and we fixed it, okay? We started doing our profit sharing monthly. And we stand on the stage in front of everyone. You only got 15 people though, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. So you stand up in front of everybody and go, okay, guys, here's our profits. They are up 10% over last month. They are down 4% over same month last year. Year to date, we were up 7%. And what all of that means is, is that your profit sharing this month is going to be a little better than it was last month, by the way, We've Got some expenses coming in next month and I don't think they're going to be that great, just to let you know. But here's how profits work. We are sharing what our family owns with you. We are not obligated to give it to you, but we have chosen as an act of kindness to share with the people that run the business with us. So we're sharing the profits, but you're not entitled. And everybody, the whole company says this out loud. Profits happen when revenues go and everybody says up. And when expenses go and everybody says down. Remember everybody, you're self employed. If profits are here, we'll share them. If they're up, we'll share them. If they're down, we'll share the pain with you. And we tell everybody that every month we have removed all entitlement to profit sharing. You are not due this. It's not part of your comp package. It's an act of mercy by the owners that we are giving you some of our money to say thank you for being on the team. And we're real blunt like that about it because we don't want any little snowflake thinking that they're entitled to this money because it changes thing. And then you get the crap like if you ever do that again, I'll walk out. Because y' all hadn't framed it right. And these guys, they, they took it as your integrity was breached because you had promised them money regardless of what happened because you hadn't communicated well how profit sharing works. So you guys got to start being very clear about where profits come from. When profits are up, bonuses will be up. When profits are down, bonuses will be down. When profits are non existent. We all did that together, people. And no one gets anything because there's no profits. We can't even pay our bills and that includes giving you extra money. So when sales are down, we, we don't have an ice cream party. We only celebrate when sales are up. This is like adult stuff. It's not a freaking kindergarten. It's a business. So you guys re establish that. And I've got a feeling though, Mike, that you're in. You're not at the top of the leadership team enough to pull what I just claimed off.

[A]

I mean I, yeah, I was given. I'd run the day to day. That was kind of a.

[B]

You don't have the power to fire that guy, do you?

[A]

No, I did. I fire people. Fired.

[B]

You fire that guy on the spot.

[A]

I didn't fire him because I said time with their you have the power. Good.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I do.

[B]

All right. You have the power to communicate to the whole team what I just talked about.

[A]

And I did that. I sat him down. I said, this is where we're at this year. This is what you're going to expect.

[B]

But I want to reframe where I want to reframe. Whether they're due money or not. You're not due a thing. This is a gift. I am sharing some of my money with you. It's not your money. I wanna reframe who owns it. Because that guy, when he said that, what he was saying was that you promised me this no matter what happened. That's what his brain was telling him. Right?

[A]

Right. Well. And he got used to it over.

[B]

Yeah, but he also. He also felt entitled to it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's my fault. As a leader, when I allow somebody to become entitled to something that they're not entitled to. I have done a poor job of communicating this. And the problem with this crap is you have to say it over and over and over and over and over and about the time you get sick of hearing it. That's about the time they hear it. You just got to do it over and over. You have the chief repeating officer. We literally. Our CFO wore a T shirt on stage last Monday that said, profits happen when revenues go up and expenses go down. It was a black T shirt with white letters. That's how ridiculous we are about repeating this over and over. So we don't want anyone to think that, you know, But I. You know, if we make a big old pile of money, I'll share it with my folk and you will, too. Right? But if we're not making any money. We did this together, boys and girls. We either went up together or we went down together. So. But we're not going to have anybody threaten us here. We don't do that. We don't have. We're not. I don't threaten them. And, you know, I'll explain to you, you can't do this and work here. That's not a threat. That's just an observation. Okay, but you don't. You don't give me a threat like, wow, you know, I do this again and I'll just walk out. Well, I can help you with that. Let's walk out now. I can handle that belligerent man. Yeah, that's the tail wagging the dog. And I don't. You haven't been here long enough to be a smart uncle like that, so you need to rethink what you just said because those are firing words. So you got about 30 seconds to rethink that and or just fire me. The ones good with me. That kind of crap, I got no use for it. And that's com. That's arrogance and belligerence and it's subversive in your culture. If you're spending most of your workday digging out of your inbox, scheduling meetings or scrambling to place last minute gift orders for clients, you're not blazing a trail for your business. You're stuck on a treadmill. You need time back so you can lead, not just survive. And the number one way to buy back your time is to get help. Like with an executive assistant from Belay. See, delegating isn't about dumping jobs you don't like doing. It's about finally moving beyond what's holding you back. And the right assistant can help you reclaim margin for what only you can do. Set the vision, lead your team, and drive growth. Belay's proven process matches you with top US Based talent in just a few days. Belay's vetting process is more selective than most top tier universities, meaning they don't just hand you a pile of resumes. They deliver a perfect executive assistant match based on your personality, company culture, tasks and systems. So start achieving more by doing less. Download Belay's free resource the Ultimate Guide to Working with an Executive Assistant today. Just text Entrez to 55123. That's Entre to 55123 foreign Houston. Hey Patrick, how are you?

[A]

Hey Dave. Greetings from the Republic of Texas.

[B]

Spoken like a true Texan. What's up? How can I help?

[A]

I am the sole owner of a commercial briefing company. We have 18 team members. Our top line last year was 2.2 million. We're expecting to do somewhere between 3 and 3.5 this year. Have a conjoining two conjoining questions. How do I vet a business coach to know that we are a good fit for each other? And what is the proper role of a business coach?

[B]

Our business coaches in entre leadership. We've got executive coaches that coach over 200 companies. We've got group coaching that coaches over 3,000 companies in group settings. And we consider them the advice and the accountability that they give on certain situations needs to pay for themselves. And so you should be increasing your revenues, decreasing your expenses, lowering your anxiety and your stress level, increasing your delegation. And the quality of the operation should be running smoother to where you're just thrilled with what you paid because you know, because of the assistance and the accountability. Cause sometimes when you're at the stage, your particular stage right there with those numbers, and you've done very well. Congratulations. You worked your butt off, man. You're a hardworking dude. But at your stage, when I was there, one of the things I experienced was there was really no one around. I was by myself. And so just having someone to bounce the ideas off of and them go, oh, well, Dave, you know, that's dumb. You can't do that guy. You can't let that guy do that. And, you know, I'm like, I'm talking to one of my buddies in business or whatever, and he's going, God, man, that's silly. You gotta fire that guy. And then next time we get together, he goes, did you fire him? I'm like, yeah, I did. Good. Because I was going to fire you if you didn't. I mean, I. But, you know, my buddy giving me a hard time, just the accountability to make me go do what I need, knew I needed to do, but there wasn't anybody around. The loneliness, so to speak, it's a type of loneliness. It's not like I'm in the corner sucking my thumb, crying, lonely, but it's just like there's nobody to talk to about this crap. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so the coach kind of ends up being your accountability partner is one of the values. And the second thing they do is they can actually give you solid business acumen teaching on something you didn't know. They look at your accounting process and go, hey, dude, that's broken. You got no PO system here. You need to be having a PO system or you're not getting customer invoices entered in. So your turnaround time on your cash is ridiculous, or your ratio on your employees is a way off, which yours is not. By the way, you're doing really good. But. But the. You know, if you called me up there and told me you had 200 employees and you had 2 million coming in, I'm going, how you open? Right? That kind of thing. So that would be me business coaching you right here now. But that's the same thing. So they're actually gonna give you some actual information and tactical things to do that are valuable that help you build your processes and your systems. And in our case, we're gonna walk you through the five stages of business, from treadmill operator to pathfinder to trailblazer to peak performer to legacy builder. And you know, you're square in the. You know, you're probably pathfinder Trailblazer. Somewhere right in there right now. And the treadmill operator is. You're past that one. You're not at that stage anymore. But, you know, usually around your area probably, you know, it's probably trailblazer. You probably need more leaders in the business and a better detailed plan to scale. That's probably one of your biggest weak points right now. And so a coach could look in from the outside from Ramsey or somewhere else and recognize, okay, I got a. I got a. Be able to be there for Patrick and help him build his leadership team and be there for Patrick and help him do some strategic planning out past, you know, next month. Next month is tactical. That's not strategic. But this time next year, what are we gonna be doing and what are the things we've gotta do to get there? And what are the, you know, we gotta move the business. Have we gotta add a sales team? Have we gotta reset the commission structure? I don't know. There's 9 million parts. As you know, Patrick, you're doing this. So, yeah, you get down in the weeds with the coach and they should be able to give you some things that you. You kind of have an aha moment. But. But I would say that's only 50% of it. 50% of it is you guys both agree on something, that you felt good talking this over with your good friend the coach, and then you go do it. And they're going to ask you next time you're on the phone with you, did you do it? Hold you accountable for tough decisions. And even the toughest of us need that. Yeah, that's what I would look for. And that's how we built our coaching model. Now, there's other people that do it different ways, but that's how we built our coaching model. I'm always going to ask a coach, you know, what have you done in business and what other businesses have you coached? And what were the results? Because I'm hiring them and say, okay, I coached a business over here. They were three and a half. After 10 years with me, you know, they're doing 30. Okay, so they 10x'd it in 10 years. And he was. The coach was part of that. They didn't do it, but they're part of that. I wanna hear some stories like that, that things are better because that coach was around and, you know, no, you're my third customer. No, thank you. You know, or I've never run a business and, you know, I'm brand new to coaching. No, I don't need that. It's not. That's not a no, thank you. That's not a thing. So it's like hiring a real estate agent's never sold a house, you know, and, or, you know, getting a life coach who never had a life, that kind of thing. So. And those guys are out there, I promise you, they're everywhere. So, yeah, you're. What you're looking for is somebody that can add value and hold you accountable. To me, that's our coaching model at Ramsey. And if you were signed up to be one of our customers on that, that's what you would get. And if we have not added value and held you accountable to pushing into the discomfort of change and then we're not doing our job and that's what we go for. That's what we reach for. So really good question, Patrick. And thanks for doing what you're doing, man. You're killing it. That's a Great jump from 2.2 to 3.5. Very good. You're rocking it. If you want to grow your business, you need a proven system that actually works. That's why you've got to join the Master Series livestream. October 20th through the 24th, my executive team and I are opening up our playbook and we'll show you the exact tactics we used to grow Ramsey solutions into a 300 million dollar company. You'll see how we lead, how we strategize and how we grow profits and how we build a unified team that's fired up about our mission. It's like having my leadership team in your office training your leaders for five days. This isn't theory, it's practical, step by step tactics you can start using in your business on Monday. The best part is you only need one ticket to stream the event with your whole leadership team. That's like getting 10 tickets for the price of one without paying for travel. But there's no time to sit on the fence. Go to entreeleadership.com livestream and get registered today or click the link in the show Notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Guys, we got one marketing plan and you're it. We need your help spread the word on this show. Click subscribe, click Follow, click Share. Cut the link out and send the send the episode to somebody. If you like what you're hearing, leave a five star review. When all of those things happen, it changes the algorithms on the platforms, the podcast and YouTube platforms and it causes the show to be pushed forward and other people see it. Thank you for doing all of those Things. If you don't do them, we're not gonna. So thank you. We appreciate the help. We appreciate the lift. You are it. You're our whole deal. Sarah is in Cleveland. Hey, Sarah. What's up?

[C]

Well, my husband and I opened a business about seven years ago, and we started as a furniture company, and then we added a hardware. And when we added the hardware, we moved it to a different location. So we. We didn't do the math as closely as we probably should have. And I don't do any of the financial end. And I'm just coming into now where we've got more debt than what we can handle. So I'm kind of wondering where. Where we start. Like, we're. We're scraping by, we're making it, but summers are always slow for us. And. Yeah, I just. I just haven't had any insight into it. So I'm making decisions and he's allowing me to. When he's doing all the book work. And it just. When I looked into the debt ratio that we have. Like it.

[B]

So he's running up debt and you didn't realize it because the book work was on him?

[C]

Correct.

[B]

What kind of debt do you have and how much?

[C]

I think we've got 80,000. And we're in a smaller town. We're not in Cleveland. We're in a small suburb of Cleveland, so it's not a huge area where we're getting a lot of business, but we've got about 80,000. Who do you.

[B]

Owe the 80,000 to?

[C]

Credit cards and loans that I didn't know that we had. And it's basically we're paying interest to credit cards every month now.

[B]

Well, I mean, 80,000 is. You have a bank loan or you have 80,000 in credit card debt? What? You don't know the breakdown?

[C]

No, we've got 42,000 in credit card debt at like 27 to 30% interest. And then we have another. I say 40. I've got it right here. Another 40,000 in loans at 14% interest.

[B]

And who are those loans with?

[C]

Two of them are with QuickBooks, so they were. No origination fee. And then the other, the credit cards are with Capital One and American Express.

[B]

Okay, okay. And so.

[C]

And I will say I found this out in. In April and in May, I was able to pay one off. And in June I was able to. So we are making headway. I just feel like I'm pouring all of.

[B]

Do you know what your profit was in. In 24?

[C]

We did one and a half million.

[B]

No, that Wasn't profit, right?

[C]

I. I don't know that. No.

[B]

Okay. That was.

[C]

I'm going to guess, probably 30%.

[B]

She had $300,000 come in and you went $80,000 in debt.

[C]

Possibly. I mean, we have payroll. We have. We own both of the.

[B]

How much debt did you pay off last month?

[C]

Last month I paid off 3000.

[B]

And the month before?

[C]

1500.

[B]

Okay. And that's all you could do?

[C]

Right. That leaves us scraping this month.

[B]

And the. How much are you guys paying yourselves?

[C]

Not enough. We are taking salaries at about 50,000 each. No.

[B]

Total.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so there's no profit.

[C]

Yes, Exactly.

[B]

Your profits. 50,000 plus 3,000amonth.

[C]

On a good month. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. So you. So if you make a million dollars and you only make a profit of $80,000, that's an 8% profit margin. Most businesses can't stay open doing that.

[C]

And I'm seeing why.

[B]

And so you've. Either. Is the hardware business, is it less. Do you have any idea if it's less profit per unit or per item than the furniture business, which has the best margin? Do you have any idea?

[C]

They're both about the same.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

It's just that my sales are so much more than he can. $32 and have 30 transactions, and I have one transaction every two or three days.

[B]

And how many employees do you have?

[C]

Well, I don't have any, and he has two. So that's.

[B]

I'm so confused. How. How could one of you. Do you not own these things together?

[C]

We do, but there's a little bit of an issue there. I had employees, and the last one, I ended up firing her for behavioral issues and.

[B]

I'm sorry, why does he have employees? And you. I thought the. I thought you owned these businesses together.

[C]

Because it's a incorporation, so I'm incorporated. And then when he opened the hardware, it's an llc, so.

[B]

So you own the furniture business in the corporation and run it, and he runs the hardware.

[C]

Right. But he's owner of both. So we're both owners. He's president. I'm vice president.

[B]

So you don't run these things together.

[C]

While we were supposed to.

[B]

So we would have employees then, not you and him.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So the total of employees employed by both organizations is what?

[C]

Four? Including me and him?

[B]

Two. Okay. And you had one, you that was fired for misbehavior.

[C]

Right, Right. And I at that point realized that we couldn't afford to hire. So now I'm. It's getting worse because you have any.

[B]

Idea what profit you used to make on just the furniture business.

[C]

Probably 30 or 40. When business. When the economy was doing really well.

[B]

Like when we first wasn't supporting even one good job.

[C]

30 or 40? 40% margin.

[B]

Oh, on how much gross?

[C]

About 3 million the first couple years.

[B]

Now you're down to a million. What happened to that?

[C]

Well, I can't market. I can't run the business. I can't. Why get more business? Because I'm the only employee here. Because I'm doing the sales and the. All the estimates and ordering and everything. I'm not able to run the business like I was.

[B]

Because you fired the one girl.

[C]

Right. And then realized that we were in a financial bind and couldn't rehire.

[B]

So one person was the difference in a million on these two businesses. Both businesses combined are only making a million dollars.

[C]

Oh, no. I don't know what the hardware sales are. I don't know what his sales are. Okay, I could check real quick.

[B]

Yeah, but all of it together is only yielding you 80 grand. Or just your thing is yielding you 80 grand, right? Which one?

[C]

He's probably break. Just me. He's probably breaking even because he's in a pretty aggressive payment plan for the building that he bought.

[B]

So he borrowed 80,000 on your business or his?

[C]

No, we are in a. A land contract.

[B]

For what?

[C]

For his building.

[B]

No, I'm talking about the business who borrowed the 80,000. He borrowed it against the furniture business or the hardware.

[A]

The.

[C]

The debt is all the furniture? Is that what you're asking?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Oh, there's so much bad going on here, I don't know where to start, kiddo. What a mess. All right, this is separate. But it's not separate. No one's keep. No one's watching the accounting. No one knows what's going on. You don't even know your numbers on the hardware store. He's aggressively paying off a building that he doesn't own on a land contract. Meanwhile, you did away with $2 million worth of revenue over one stupid employee because you've got a little bit of credit card debt while he pays off a building over on the other side. So I think you all got to decide what business you're in. If I had just your business, I could recover it in 20 minutes, not counting his hardware. But you'd have to take all the books over, run it again, and you can get that business back up to 2 million by yourself and then hire somebody in the process to take it on back to 3 million, and you can pay off the $80,000 in debt. In 20 minutes. I can revive that furniture business. I think this hardware business is hell. It sounds like it's going down the tubes and nobody knows what's going on. But you guys have so separated this and then not separated it. And don't know what the flip is going on with your numbers either one of you. And he borrowed money on your furn furniture business. Although technically you both own all of it. I understand that. And I want you to own it together from a marriage standpoint. But you know, it's separate. But it's not separate. You don't know the numbers on your own thing you're supposed to be responsible for. So I think you guys have got to decide what business you're in. If you're gonna separate and run the business over here, the furniture business to the side. I think you can recover on that. I can't. You don't have any numbers on the hardware. So you can't tell what's going on there.

[A]

But.

[B]

And I don't know if he borrowed the 80,000 on your furniture. Cause his hardware store wasn't making it. I kind of think that might have been what happened. Cause I think this hardware thing's up a creek. That's what it sounds like. And it's a land contract. Which is the worst possible deal you can do. If the guy you're buying from gets sued. You lose everything because. And you didn't do anything wrong even though you're current on your payments. So never do a land contract. Horrible structure for buying something. And you don't need to buy a building on a business you haven't even owned yet. Haven't even made profitable yet. So. Y' all have done so much wrong on the hardware side. I think you. You know. I think your best bet for survival is for you to separate your efforts. Let him try to survive over on the hardware. But he may take the whole family down with that kid. I don't know what to tell you. I think someone needs to get deeper in with you than I can do on this podcast. Because you don't have all the numbers and I don't have him on the phone to chew him up for the stuff he's doing.

[C]

Wr.

[B]

So I want to love both of you well and give you some truth. But you need to get a clear plan and a clear understanding, both of you. Of all the numbers and exactly what it takes to keep the hardware business afloat and running. And what it takes to grow the furniture business back to what it was in its glory. It's ridiculous to give up $2 million worth of revenue over one employee. That's ridiculous. And I don't think that's actually what happened either. I don't think one employee was generating $2 million worth of revenue. So I think you got to get further into it than that. Sarah. There's a lot going on here. Y' all gotta work on. I'm sorry. I wish I could be more help, but I can't. I can't get my hands around what's happening here. I apologize. I wish again, I wish I could be more of a blessing to you. I hurt for you because I've been where you are, confused and stumbling, and I. But you need lots of clarity and lots of detail, both of you, putting everything out on the table. And then from that, the plan should emerge for you and maybe get a good coach in your corner. Maybe that'll help, too. Wow. Ouch. Folks, remember, better a wary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us on Entrepreneur Leadership.