My Father’s Retirement Package Could Break Our Business

Summary

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The EntreLeadership Podcast (Ramsey Network)

Episode: "My Father’s Retirement Package Could Break Our Business"
Date: January 5, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into real-world leadership and business dilemmas faced by entrepreneurs and leaders, focusing on high-stakes decisions like succession planning in family businesses, extending grace to employees, leading teams through unpopular changes, and confronting the question of whether and how to consciously grow your business. Dave Ramsey combines listener Q&A with his signature blend of candid, heartfelt advice and well-worn business wisdom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mindset for the New Year: Approach as if You've Already Won

[00:10 – 05:54]

• Dave opens with a motivational story illustrating the power of perspective, especially as leaders enter a new year.
• “What if you approached [2026] as if you had already won, rather than from a position of scarcity and stress?” – Dave Ramsey [04:40]
• The way you perceive challenges and opportunities in the coming year can be as important as your skills or experience.

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2. Major Call: Navigating Succession & Dad’s Retirement Compensation

[05:54 – 18:23]

Caller: Sam (Oklahoma City)
Situation:

• Sam is a 3rd-generation head of operations at a manufacturing firm (4.2M revenue, 22 employees).
• His father faced health issues, wants partial retirement, and to transfer the business, but his desired compensation could “break” the company. Sam struggles to balance honoring his dad with financial prudence.

Key Numbers discussed:

• Dad's current salary: $140k
• Dad’s new ask: salary, benefits, rent totalling just under $500k/yr
• Market rent for property: $144k/yr
• Company profit last year: $600k

Highlights & Notable Quotes:

• “It’s not dishonoring to keep a company… because if you go broke you can’t pay him. If he causes you to go broke, he cut his own foot off, right?” – Dave Ramsey [08:14]
• Dave walks through the math: Even with $144k in rent and maintaining a $140k salary, profit would only drop from $600k to ~$450k; not “breaking the business.”

Dave’s Solution/Advice:

• Avoid profit sharing for dad post-transfer; prefer fixed payments for clarity and future business growth.
• Structure:
  • Pay dad $150k/year for a set period (e.g., 10 years), then only market-value rent on the building.
  • Lock in a long-term lease at today’s market rate to avoid future disputes.
  • “The honor is not a dollar amount. The honor’s a posture of your heart.” – Dave Ramsey [17:35]
  • Don’t let the definition of “honoring” become entangled with overpaying beyond what’s reasonable and sustainable.
• If any negotiation becomes a matter of perpetual dissatisfaction, remember: “People who are bound and determined to be unhappy… there’s not enough money in the world to make those people happy.” [16:55]

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3. Call-In: Extending Grace or Drawing the Line with an Employee

[20:28 – 28:17]

Caller: Brandon (Tulsa, OK)
Situation:

• Fired a new employee (single dad) who missed 4 days in 4 weeks for family/sickness reasons; asks how and when to balance grace with discipline.

Dave’s Insights:

• Use “the golden rule” — treat people how you’d wish to be treated, but also assess the scale and scope of the issue:
  • Is it a one-off crisis or a pattern that threatens business function?
  • In small teams, chronic absenteeism is a much bigger burden.
• “Anytime we have a team member come to us and say a personal situation is a strain… the first thing I teach is to assess the scope and size of the problem.” – Dave Ramsey [22:45]
• Illustrates with stories: grace for extraordinary, genuine crises (like a baby’s cancer diagnosis); less so for recurring, disruptive issues.
• On communicating grace to the rest of the team:
  • Be transparent when you can (“So-and-so’s kid has cancer…”), but maintain privacy and dignity for sensitive matters.
  • Avoid “sanctioned incompetence” — don’t allow the team to perceive that misbehavior or excessive absence is tolerated.

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4. Call-In: Leading Through Unpopular Change

[32:29 – 40:24]

Caller: Caden (Charleston, WV) – Small college athletic dept.
Situation:

• Leadership feels a conference change is necessary; staff will see it as a step down and react negatively.

Dave’s Guidance:

• Reference: Patrick Lencioni’s “The Ideal Team Player.”
• Technique: Before announcing the change, go on a “listening tour” to make the team problem-aware — have them recognize the same issues leadership sees.
• Story of Nehemiah: Address the problem with your team first, so “they start saying, ‘Hey, have you noticed that the walls are down?’” [36:29]
• “If you can get them to recognize and be problem aware, then you can start to say… I think we’ve got to rebuild the walls. And then Nehemiah would start rebuilding… and he had everybody’s buy-in.” – Dave Ramsey [37:20]
• Even with finesse, some team members may never buy in; leaders must still “square your shoulders, stiffen your backbone and make the call.” [40:18]

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5. Call-In: Do I Need to Grow My Business?

[43:09 – 49:53]

Caller: Andrew (Anchorage, AK) – Small aircraft maintenance business
Situation:

• Maxed out on work, reluctant to expand staff due to aversion to training/overseeing more people, questions whether growth is essential.

Dave’s Wisdom:

• “Nothing is stagnant. It's either growing or it's dying.” [44:38]
• Even slow, gentle growth is critical to staying vibrant and resilient — e.g., hiring even one more team member can increase stability and reduce vulnerability.
• “You’ve defined what you want your business to look like. It’s supposed to bring you joy and serve your customers… And I like your attitude about it a lot.” [49:30]
• Growth need not be dramatic, but you must always have a slight lean forward to avoid eventual decline.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On New Year perspective:
  “What if 2026 was your job interview? What if you approached it as if you had already won?” – Dave Ramsey [04:40]

• On family succession:
  “The honor is not a dollar amount. The honor’s a posture of your heart… It’s not like I have to pay Daniel a certain amount for him to feel honored. If he does, that’s not real honor. That’s just a transaction.” – Dave Ramsey [17:35]

• On leading change:
  “You’re solutioning for problems that they don't believe are there. So what if you started telling them, here's a problem I see—a problem—and don’t present a solution?” – Dave Ramsey [36:15]

• On business growth:
  “Nothing is stagnant. It’s either growing or it’s dying… Lean in enough that you create some kind of upward momentum.” – Dave Ramsey [44:38]

• On employee grace and boundaries:
  “We treat people like we want to be treated… but I’d fire the guy too in your situation—not because I’m a big old meanie, but because his needs in his life right now do not connect with the needs we have as a company.” – Dave Ramsey [27:10]

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Structure by Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp |
|---|---------------------|----------| | Opener & 2026 Mindset | New Year perspective | 00:10 – 05:54 | | Call 1 | Family business & retirement succession | 05:54 – 18:23 | | Call 2 | Grace vs. boundaries with employees | 20:28 – 28:17 | | Call 3 | Leading through unpopular change | 32:29 – 40:24 | | Call 4 | Questioning growth in business | 43:09 – 49:53 |

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Approach leadership decisions from a place of confidence, not scarcity.
• Succession planning demands clear numbers, objective assessment of “honor,” and often, tough conversations with family.
• Extend grace where it’s due, but don’t sacrifice business function or invite sanctioned incompetence.
• Change management works best when people are “problem aware” before being asked to buy into solutions.
• Sustained growth—no matter how incremental—is vital; don’t confuse “no pressure to grow fast” with standing still.

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Tone & Style

Dave Ramsey maintains his classic, practical, witty, and sometimes blunt tone throughout, combining empathy for callers with zero-nonsense financial and leadership advice.

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Transcript

[A]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is Entre Leadership, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you've got a question, we'd love to have you fill out the [e-mail] Ask or give us a call and we'll get you on the show at 844-944-1070. That's 844-944-1090. So here we are, the beginning of a brand new year. 2026. Can you believe it, man? Something about a new year that's a clean slate. A fresh start represents grace and mercy. Everything's in front of us, nothing's behind us. That's why they have the baby as the new year, right? It's the image that we have. What's interesting is how you approach the year and what you believe about the year is going to determine your results as much as how brilliant you are or how. How lucky you are or whatever else you believe in for destiny. I remember being at a motivational seminar a thousand years ago, and the guy told the story about perspective and the way we approach things. He said there was a guy who had been out of a job for years and he was really struggling. And he finally got an interview with this great company in New York City. It was the job of a lifetime, the job of his dreams. And he was really intimidated and really worried about getting the job. So he flies to New York and he checks into the hotel room, and just as he's getting ready to walk out the door the next morning to go to the interview, nervous sweat in the palm of his hands, heart's beating a little fast, the phone rings in his room just as he's walking towards the door. And he stops and he picks up the phone and it's his wife back home. She says, honey, I got great news. You don't have to go on the interview. I just won a million dollars on a lottery ticket. You don't have to go. We got a million dollars. And he said, well, yeah, that's awesome. He goes, we'll celebrate. This is amazing. This is a cool moment in time. And he goes, but I'll tell you what, just for the fun of it, just for kicks, I'll go do the interview. So he goes to the company to do the interview, and as you might imagine, he's in a little different posture. He's Relaxed. His heart's not beating. It's not life or death. Matter of fact, he may not even take the job if they offer it to him because he's got a million dollars, right? And probably because of his posture, the way he was thinking, the position of his heart. The interview went exceedingly well, and they made him a job offer beyond his wildest dreams right on the spot. And he said, well, I'll have to think about it. I need to talk to my wife and I'll call you guys later this afternoon and let you know if I need to take it or not. He didn't mention the million dollars. Got back to the hotel room, the phone's ringing again. He picked it up, and his wife said, honey, I. I made a huge mistake. I found out that I had read this wrong, and we did not win anything. We do not have a million dollars. So what had changed? He never really had the million dollars. But his perception, the attitude, the altitude, the positioning of his heart, the way he walked into the job interview changed because of what he believed his future looked like. He went from glass half empty to glass half full or completely overflowing, whichever way you want to look at it. And he wasn't arrogant or cocky in a way that was just off putting, but he had just extreme confidence. But he actually didn't have the money. As a matter of fact, he never had the money and was never going to get the money. But it changed his whole approach. So what if 2026 was your job interview? What if the year was what you've got to look forward to? Because it is. And what if you approached it as if you had already won, rather than approaching it from a position of scarcity and stress and anxiety? Those things are all real in business. We all get the crap beat out of us in this world called leadership. But what if you approach this year as if this was a Monopoly game and I might be a little ahead or I might be a little behind, but it's not life threatening, and I can just sit here with a pleasant smile and a straight backbone and some courage and approach our conversations completely different. I think that's what I'm going to do for 2026. I'm going to approach it as if I've already won. Why don't you join me in that? Our phone Number here is 844-944-1070. And you can join me here, too. That's 844-94410. Sam is in Oklahoma City. Hey, Sam, what's up in your World.

[B]

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

[A]

Sure, man. How can we help?

[B]

So I'm the head of operations and third generation, our family's manufacturing company. Last year we had 4.2 million in revenue and have 22 employees currently. Last year, my dad had some serious health issues and now wants to partially retire and transfer full ownership to me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

We're now in the process of trying to figure out our succession plan, but can't seem to come to an agreement on his compensation after the transfer. What he's wanting, I think, is going to financially break our company, and I can't get him to see my point of view. So my question is, how do I answer? Or, sorry, how do I honor and take care of my dad in his retirement while keeping our business financially healthy?

[A]

So he doesn't have any money?

[C]

Not.

[B]

Not a lot in his retirement account? No.

[A]

So he's depending on this to eat?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What's he make now?

[B]

Now it's salaries at 140, 140 a year.

[A]

And what's he wanting?

[B]

Salary, benefits, and the. The rent comes out to just under 500.

[A]

You're already paying all that?

[B]

No, no, we're not. Not the rent. Right now you're.

[A]

You're not paying rent.

[B]

Well, it's his. It's his property.

[A]

All right, well, when you get the building, I mean, when you get the property, you don't get the building.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay. And so we're increasing the expenses by 350,000 a year.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Well, what's the. What kind of profit did y' all make on the 4.2 million last year?

[B]

We made just over 600,000 in profit.

[A]

Okay. All right. The rent sounds high. I mean, if you went to rent that building, would it cost that?

[B]

No, it's the he wants. It's the rent plus the increase in salary and profit sharing that he's asking for.

[A]

Okay. All right. Well, it's not dishonoring to keep a company that. Because if you go broke, you can't pay him, and if he causes you to go broke and you can't pay him, he cut his foot off. He cut his own foot off, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So that's a math thing. Is he that bad at pnl?

[B]

I would like to not think so, but I just can't get him to see it from my point of view. And look at the budget with me.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So what would be the market rent on the building?

[B]

Market rent is about 12,000amonth for all the buildings.

[A]

So it is 360,000?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. 12,000amonth. That's 144,000.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. All right. I did it wrong. Okay. All right, so. And he's making 140 now. So that would be 300. But he wants six. But he wants 350.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

The new salary go from 140 to 280.

[A]

But he's giving you the business for free.

[B]

Yeah, the transfer, the child transfer. I don't remember what it's called.

[A]

Okay, all right. Well, it's not going to break the business for the business to start paying $144,000 in rent. And it's already paying him 140. The other crap involved probably could be blown off another 50 grand in odds and ends. But it actually made 600 while paying him 140.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so if we deduct 144. If we deduct 200 from that for 144 and his other miscellaneous crappy wants, the profit sharing stuff, then you still have 400,000 profit, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, theoretically.

[A]

How old is he?

[B]

He's 56.

[A]

Wow. What's he going to do with his life?

[B]

He wants to travel and go. Go do the things with his wife and go have fun.

[A]

Okay. Cause I mean, we are giving Gen2 the business for free at Ramsey, but a lot of families have a buyout where Gen 3 or 4 or whatever buys the generation out from before based on the valuation. Any idea why you guys are not doing that?

[B]

We talked about that. And my sticking point was I didn't want to go into debt for it.

[A]

Okay, so instead of going into debt, you're going to pay him 140,000 for the next 30 years.

[B]

It's looking like that.

[A]

Plus rent.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, because you're not getting the building for free.

[B]

No, no. Even if I bought the business from, I'd still have to pay rent on top of that.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Unless you bought the building too. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, true.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

All right, Well, I don't think it's breaking the business. I disagree with your assessment. I do think. And, and you don't have to dishonor your dad to get a good, reasonable financial deal that does not bring harm to the business. And the biggest problem I've got here is I want a long term lease at this rate. I want to lock this rate in for a long time so I don't have to have this discussion again. I don't want to do any of the profit sharing. And I would pay him 140,000 a year income. 150,000 a year income. Let's make it even. Okay. For a set number of years and then I'm done.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So that. Then all you've got is building rent after that. Okay. And we've locked the building rent down at market value 20, 26, not market value 15 years from now. So you got a good rate on it. In other words, you got a sweetheart deal. Yeah. And get rid of the profit sharing stuff because then when you go make a bunch more money, every dollar you make, profit goes to you. Because his is all fixed now. That makes sense.

[C]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Yeah. I'd pay him 150 and some. I mean, I've got a figure in my head something like 10 years, but if it was a little longer, that'd be fine. But you, you know, not 30 years. That sounds too much. 20 years of stretching my imagination. So I'm making this up, though. I don't have anything to base it on. I'm just sitting here thinking, if I were in your shoes, how would I feel trying to think about if I was in his shoes? But he's got $300,000 a year to live on and travel, and that's his only income. As long as you stay open, if you run the thing in the ground, he gets nothing.

[B]

I'm trying not to do that.

[A]

I know, I know. But I'm just saying, I'm trying to think from his perspective. This is like his pension.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't. That doesn't feel like it's going to break you guys. It adds $150,000 to your bottom line off your bottom line from the 600. So you still make 450, right? Yeah.

[C]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Okay. All right. Yeah. How's that feel to you?

[B]

I mean, definitely different. Different approach than what I was thinking about.

[A]

What were you thinking about?

[B]

I was trying to take his numbers that he gave me and try to find the four. And I was hoping we meet somewhere in the middle.

[A]

But.

[B]

Did, you know, try to make him happy at the same time? That's what was my big conundrum.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I mean, him being happy is his decision. But, dad, I'm trying to. And I would just be very open and say I'm trying to balance between my need and my want to honor you and to make sure you and mom are okay. But also not handcuff this place on growth and on getting to go on to the next level. And it feels like some of this other Tinker Toy stuff you've got in there is handcuffs to me. So it feels very Clean. To just pay you 150 for 10 years or something like that, and then pay you rent on the building for as long as we are in the building.

[B]

Yeah, I like it. Yeah, I appreciate it.

[A]

Just the cleanliness of it. And I don't think, number one, he can't afford to walk away with nothing. He didn't need money. I mean, if he has no salary from the business and no rent, he's got no money. And at 56, why would he quit? I'm gonna continue to work. Oh, and by the way, I run the business, so I'm gonna start charging rent to the business and putting that in my pocket, since I own the building and it's separate from the business. And get this business used to paying rent. And I'm just gonna sit here and cash out 300,000 and stay. That's another option he could do because he's retiring pretty early.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, I think you kind of figure that that way. Because at 66, then he would only have rent money if you did 10 years, right?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Interesting discussion. I don't know if I'm helpful or not, but I'm just kind of thinking through the numbers with you and looking at the impact on you, the impact on the business profitability, the impact on your dad, looking at where he's coming from and trying to find that ground. But people who are bound and determined to be unhappy, Sam, are gonna be unhappy. There's not enough money in the world to make those people happy. And so. And if he's kind of doing all this against his will, and his wife wants him, your mom wants him to go travel, and he wants to keep working, there's not anything you can give him that's gonna be okay. He's gonna be pissed no matter what. Cause he's already pissed. But if he's really wanting to do this, and he also loves you and he loves the business that he's helped to run. Third generation now, then he doesn't need to do something that's going to handcuff the business or handcuff the son that he loves. And so that's the balance. So he actually has to honor those things as much as you want to honor him. But the honor is not a dollar amount. The honor's a posture of your heart. And his, too, by the way. So I want to honor Ramsey and honor Daniel Ramsey running this place and honor the entree leadership team doing the entree stuff. I want to give them honor, then they give me honor. But that's Not a dollar amount. It's not like I have to pay Daniel a certain amount for him to feel honored. If he does. That's not real honor. That's just a transaction. And that's what I mean by you can't make somebody happy. Just bound to determine not to be happy. It's not a dollar amount. And you know, overpaying someone or paying someone something, that's ridiculous. And him calling that honor, that's not true. That's not true. So good question. Good discussion. Sam, thank you for joining us. My man. Proud of you. Keep it up. It sounds like a great business. 4.2 million 22 team members, third generation manufacturing in the United States of America. Salute.

[D]

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[A]

You wouldn't build a house without a blueprint. So why are you trying to scale your business without one? Here's the truth. Without a plan, you're reacting, you're not leading. And if you're always reacting, you can't build the momentum your business needs to grow. That's why we're giving you Entree Leadership Elite's strategic planning template for free. You'll also get the course that shows you how to use it. In under 30 minutes, you'll learn how to define the future you want and build a plan to grow your business so you can finally, get out of reactive mode. No more flying by the seat of your pants. Just clear practical steps that take you to. From putting out fires to actually growing. Get the strategic planning template [e-mail] strategy or click the link in the show notes. Brandon is in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Brandon. How are you?

[E]

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for taking my call. And thank you for everything that you do. I really appreciate you.

[A]

Well, thank you, sir.

[E]

Yeah. So I'm the owner of a small plumbing company. We've got 11 employees, and we do about 2 million in revenue a year. So I recently had to fire a new employee because he missed four days in four weeks. My question is, why did he miss. He had different reasons every time, but he was sick, his daughter was sick, daughter had to get a tooth pulled, and daughter was sick again.

[C]

And.

[E]

Wife in the picture do what? He doesn't have a wife in the picture there.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

So my question is, do you leave any room for grace in situations like that when you have a new hire that misses work that often right after they're hired?

[A]

Yes and no. We have to assess what's going on. And so this guy's a single dad. He's got a little girl that's been sick. That's one thing. The second thing is that there's a pattern. Taking care of your kid. Will never fire you for taking care of your kid. Okay? That's just. We just don't do that. And so there's a lot of grace for that. But if there's a pattern that says, quote, under the heading of taking care of your kid, that you're not working at all, then this isn't going to work because we need you here. And so if this, you know, if you ascertain by looking at the leader, looking at his attitude about it and just kind of assessing the situation, and you say, well, you know, based on that it looks like this is gonna be the way of life as long as this guy works here, then, yeah, I would have let him go. Because you can't, you know, if it's just gonna be the rest of the time he works here, he's gonna miss a day, a week, you know, no, that's not gonna work for me. So he's gonna have to get a different kind of a job because of his childcare situation and because this job requires you to be here because we can't do plumbing. Remote. Right. And so, you know, yeah, I would have done that. So anytime we have a team member come to us and say a personal situation is a strain and are just informing us and, you know, letting us know that something's coming, then the first thing I teach entree leaders to do is to assess the scope and the size of the problem. In other words, how much impact is it going to have on them? Okay. A weird example of that is I remember many years ago when I wrote about this, I had a lady walk in my office and tears in her eyes and her lips started quivering as she started talking and tear ran down her cheek. And I said, what's wrong? And she said, my baby's sick. And I went, oh, no, I'm so sorry. And I said, so what is it? She said, the daycare called and they're running a fever, and this is their first week in daycare, and this is my first baby. And I went, oh, yeah, okay, this is a little separation anxiety here. Mom's not. This is hard to put the kid in daycare, very hard to do that, especially your first baby. And you're taking this little baby over there, and then the first time they call, you're going to run right over there. And so when I'm looking at all that, I kind of smile as the old guy and go, this too shall pass. You're going to get through this, and, you know, you're going to get used to this. And by the time you've got three or four kids, they call from the daycare, you go, yeah, we'll be there in an hour or two. You know, we'll get around to it. Be there by the time, closing time. You don't drop everything and run over there like the house is on fire. And so I assess the situation. I decided it's a small thing, so no big deal, right? Go take care of it. The second one, about two days later, another lady walks in my office, same thing, tears in her eyes, lipsticks quivering. When she said, I said, what's wrong? And tear ran down her cheek, and she said, my baby's sick. And I said, oh, my gosh. And I'm thinking about the other one, kind of rolling my eyes, but I didn't. And I said, what's wrong? And she said, got cancer. Oh, whole different thing, right?

[E]

Right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And so I said, you know, I called my HR director in. I called her leader in. She was in accounting at the time. And I said, her baby's got cancer. As a team, as a family, we're all getting ready to fight leukemia and beat it. Ready here. Ready, set, go. And those people didn't Mow their grass all that summer our team did. Those people didn't cook a meal all that summer, our team did. And she didn't work because you can't do accounting while your kids got chem. Your brain doesn't work when you're doing that. So she got the whole summer off with pay. Because that's what I would want somebody to do for my kid if my grandkid had leukemia. Right. And so we treat people like we want to be treated. But that's a lady that had been with us at that time for four or five years had not missed a day. This was an extreme situation. And so, you know, and she still works here, by the way. Been here 20 years. And if you say something bad about Dave Ramsey, she'll kill you. Because we were loyal to her and she's loyal to us. And so assess the size of the problem and then you can determine whether your company is of size and you can afford the absence and afford to extend the grace or not. You got 10 people. If one of them's not there, you have a 10% drop in production, minimum, maybe a 40% drop or a 30% drop, depending on how many people you got in the field. You don't really have the margin to extend extreme grace. And a day, a week, that's pretty extreme. So I would have fired the guy too, in your situation. Not because I'm a big old meanie, but because his needs in his life right now do not connect with the needs we have as a company to be able to have him on staff. And so you were not heartless, I hope, but I would not consider you heartless for having done that act. I would have probably done the exact same thing. But what I'm saying about all that whole long, drawn out story is that assess the size of the need and then say, can our company, can our situation. How much of this can we accept and is their request reasonable or do they have a weird thing going on? And so like we had a lady that worked here for about 90 days and then she was having anxiety and her request was to work from home for the rest of her career. Well, we work at work, so that doesn't work out. So you're going to have to solve your anxiety some other way. And that's not heartless. That's more like your situation, Brandon, where we assess the size and scope of the need and how does it compare or connect with our needs here and with our ability to extend grace. And we didn't have the ability to extend that kind of grace. Cause it changes the whole culture of our organization. If we start, anybody who's having a bad day with anxiety goes home. That doesn't work because we all have anxiety all day long. It's part of what we do. So.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Suck it up, buttercup. And so. But yeah, that, that's. Is that making any sense at all?

[E]

Yes, absolutely. If you do decide to extend grace, do you. How do you communicate that with the rest of your team? That is seeing that.

[A]

If it's something that's not shaming, we tell them so and so. So and so's kids got cancer, we're all praying and they're not gonna be here for 90 days. Cause we're going to chemo and we're paying them and they're on our team and we love them. And you should be glad we do stuff like that. Cause it could be you next. And the team, they like that. But if they think that we're just being weak leaders or something, or too cowardly to confront misbehavior, then that's sanctioned incompetence. And that's bad. You don't want the team feeling that. And if they don't know what's going on, they could think it's sanctioned incompetence. So if you say so and so's kid's sick. If I've got a team member who's mad cause they're not at work, cause their kid sick, that team member's in trouble. You know, we want. We want good human beings working here. And childhood illness is something anybody's ever had a kid. It takes your breath away. So even if you hadn't had a kid, you know, so all that. So yeah, it's a. I communicate it. But if it's something shaming, if they're having to go in for. I don't know. I've got two people right now that have maybe vague psychological things going on. I'll just leave it at that. And are doing some. Doing some on sites they're out of. They're not in the office. And they're getting help on site somewhere. That's about as much as I want to say. And that's exactly what I would say to the team too. Because the team listens to this. But anyway. But I mean, why would. I'm not going to shame someone that's trying to get help in that. That's not valuable. We just said so and so is working on some stuff. They're not here. And everybody just goes, okay, we trust the team. Because when we trust leadership, because they tell us what's going on, unless it's something that is harmful to the person and then it's the only time they don' and so, you know, just lots and lots and lots of grace on that as well. So, Brandon, I'm proud of you. You're asking the right kind of questions. You're why working for a small business is the best place to work in America because you actually care. You know how much analysis or heartache corporate America would have over that situation. 0 negative 2. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business. For real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags, inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey that's netsuite.com Ramsey. Caden is with us in Charleston, West Virginia. Hi Caden, how are you?

[C]

Doing good, doing good.

[A]

How can we help?

[C]

Well, Dave, I've got, I'm working a small college athletic department and we're kind of facing a big decision coming up here that's me on the leadership team feels is really necessary. But I know just for a fact.

[B]

On the feelers I put out, it's.

[C]

Going to be really unpopular with our staff. So I'm really looking for guidance on how to navigate that.

[A]

Okay, Well, I would pick up Pat Lincioni's book, the Ideal Team Player because he says people need to be hungry, humble and smart. And there's one of these players missing one of these things that is popular with the staff and they're Called the lovable slacker. Okay. They are humble and they're smart with people, but they're not hungry. And the staff always loves this person, but they're freaking incompetent. They don't get their work done. They got no drive. They don't put the ball in the end zone to use your world. Right. And so if you don't do that, you can't hang out. And when you fire as a leader, when you fire the lovable slacker, you feel like that they are loved by the staff because the lovable slacker goes around and spends a lot of time at everybody's desk being lovable instead of getting their work done. And so they're lovable. But people also know that they don't get their work done. And so you might find something like that to be the dynamic. Like, I think this is gonna be unpopular because they like this person, but I'm having to let this person go because they're not getting the job done. Am I reading the mail? A little bit. A little bit.

[C]

It's kind of the right direction, basically. Kind of get more context. Decision we're looking at is college athletics. We work within organizations. We'd be. I feel, in the leadership team feels that, you know, a hard right turn into a different organization and a transition might be beneficial in the long term. The staff is going to see that transition in the short term as painful and as somewhat a step down for them career wise, if that makes sense.

[A]

Oh, okay. So you're going to go to a. Like, I don't even know what you're talking about, but I'm gonna try to guess and say something. It's not. This is not it. I'm sure because of where you are. But something like we're gonna move from the SEC to the acc.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Something.

[C]

Something close to that.

[A]

Which in football would be a step down.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And really this particular step, you know, I've done a lot of research on it. I feel like it'd be more of a lateral step.

[B]

But.

[A]

But it's the. The, like, the coach is not going to be as revered because they might be looked at as D2 instead of D1.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. That or that's. They're going to be their perception. Right. All right.

[C]

Because they're. They're just going to see that distinction and it's. It's going to hurt their egos a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know if this will work. I'm making it up on the spot. Cause that's what we do here, it occurs to me there's a story in the Bible and I watched a guy do this in a leadership conference one time, and I've used it a lot and it's worked well for me about Nehemiah. He was sent, he was allowed by the king to go back to the Jerusalem. The walls had been torn down. And so Jerusalem was bare and was being raided by enemies. Cause they had no walls. And Jerusalem was being plundered because they had no walls. And Jerusalem had all these problems because they had no walls. And so Nehemiah was sent back to Jerusalem with the job, with the mandate, with the certification from the king to allow him to rebuild the walls. And instead of just coming back and blowing trumpets and announcing, which is what you're talking about, we're going to change, we're going to build the walls. Instead. He kind of went on a listening tour and went around and said, talk to people. He talked to the aristocrats, he talked to the soldiers, he talked to the merchants. And he goes, hey, have you all noticed that the walls are down? And they said, yeah, the walls are down. In other words, he presented the problem and he did this. He circled back a couple times to where finally they started saying, hey, have you noticed that the walls are down? There's now saying it to him. Because you're seeing problems that your team that's gonna be disillusioned by this move are not seeing. And you're solutioning for problems that they don't believe are there or they don't know are there. So what if you started telling them, here's a problem, I see a problem and don't present a solution. Just I see a problem. You know, we've got this problem because we're in this conference, we have this problem. And do that with several coaches, do that with several staff. The ones you're worried about being disillusioned by the move. And if you have the luxury of time, do it two or three times and try to get them to come to you and say, hey, have you noticed we have this problem cause we're not in that conference? Or because we're in this conference or whatever it is. And if you can get them to recognize and be problem awareness, then you can start to say, you know, I think as the leader, I've got to help you all solve this problem. I think we've got to rebuild the walls. And then Nehemiah would start rebuilding the walls. And he had everybody's buy in because they had become problem aware. And they bought into the solution. But if he had just come in and announced we're building the walls, they were going, why? We don't care about the walls. They're not problem aware. And if you announce this, they're not problem aware. It occurs to me, and so even if you lose the morale of a couple of them over time, I still am going to make them, through some methodology, problem aware so that then when it does come, they at least know. And also while I'm doing that somewhere in the conversation going, you know, if we changed, that'd probably be like a blow to your reputation because you'd be a coach in this conference instead of that conference and that might feel funny to you and just let them know they're seen.

[B]

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that part of it.

[A]

It takes some of the air out of it. If they know they've been heard and they know they've been seen and it's still going to be an ouchie and you still might actually completely lose one of them. Because when you turn the car hard right, sometimes the centrifugal force turns, throws people out of the car. They can't hang on to the change no matter what you do. But if you can make them problem aware, go on a listening tour, try to get them to participate in the solution of the problem, you might actually have one of the ones you're the most worried about come to you and suggest you change conferences. If you pull this off with finesse and perfectly, I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, it's definitely, definitely good to hear. It's definitely hear outside perspective on it.

[A]

The disclaimer is, none of this ever works perfect because I don't always do it perfect. And the person on the other end receiving it is like, I don't give a crap. I like where we are. I like my poop. I'm going to sit in it just like a toddler.

[C]

Right, right.

[A]

And they'll just sit there in the problem. You know, I know it stinks, but it's mine, you know, and it's like, yeah, sometimes people do that and there's nothing you can do to f just a toddler. And you know, that goes with it. So you're a great leader to be asking this kind of question, Kayden, and you know, and then still have the courage to square your shoulders, stiffen your backbone and make the call because that's what good leaders do, even if people don't understand. But I'm going to do everything I can to do a listening Tour a problem awareness discussion and involvement by asking questions and get them to recognize and see what I'm seeing. So at least they go, yeah, he kind of telegraphed that. I knew he was going to throw the pass over there. I knew he was going to do this. But it wasn't like, what the crap? What is, what is Kaden doing? You know? And it takes the shock and awe out of it, which is what you want to do. Let the air out of that. So very cool, man. You're a good man. You're a good leader. Thank you for calling in. I'm honored to have you in our Entree leadership audience. You wouldn't build a house without a blueprint, so why are you trying to scale your business without one? Here's the truth. Without a plan, you're just reacting, not leading. And if you're always reacting, you can't build the momentum your business needs to grow. That's why we're giving you Entree Leadership Elite's strategic planning template for free. This is the same template my team uses every year to plan for the next 12 months of growth. And you'll also get the course that shows you how to use it. In under 30 minutes, you'll know how to build a clear plan to grow your business so you can finally get out of reactive mode. No more flying by the seat of your pants. Just clear, practical steps that take you from putting out fires to actually growing. Go to entreleadership.com strategy to get the free strategic planning template today or click the link in the show notes. Hey guys, you can help us out by following the show, subscribing to the show, leaving a nice five star review, seeing how much you love us. Well, it's fair because we love you. So shut up. Thank you very much. We appreciate all the help and share the show. Click the click the share button or cut the little linky thing out and send it to a friend and say, watch this little linky thing. It's worth it. Works for me, guys. We appreciate you guys hanging out with us here. Andrew's in Anchorage, Alaska. Hi Andrew. What's up?

[C]

Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

[A]

My honor, sir. How can I help?

[C]

I'm an owner of a small aircraft maintenance business. My revenue last year was 550k. I have one mechanic who works for me and my wife does the accounting part time. I have no desire to grow the business, but I have more work than I can do. I have raised my hourly rate as high as I feel fair. I hate saying no to people who need work done. My question is, is a good idea to hire another employee if I like working but don't enjoy training or overseeing? And I'm. I'm pretty much maxed out in my. What I got going on right now with my hours I work.

[A]

Choose your pain, brother.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Which one you want to do? You didn't say you liked either one of them.

[C]

Right? Well, I guess I'm. I'm trying to figure out, like, I guess overseeing the guy that I have now is. It took me, you know, a couple years to get him trained fairly well, but he still needs. Needs some help. But I. I'm just not sure. Is it okay to. To keep your business, you know, where it is, or is it better to grow it? I guess, do you have to grow it? I guess is another question. I guess you don't have to grow.

[A]

It at light speed, but there needs to be some sense of growth because nothing is stagnant. It's either growing or it's dying. And sometimes you don't see the deterioration because it's internal, and sometimes you don't see the growth because it's so gradual. But I'm going to lean in enough that I create some kind of upward momentum to keep away the deterioration. Right. And so, you know, I don't know that necessarily hiring another mechanic is the way to grow. The only way to grow for you. I don't know how you grow, but it's, you know, it occurs to me that you're pretty vulnerable today. If he just decided that he was moving to Omaha, your current mechanic, you're screwed.

[C]

Yeah, Yeah. I definitely have more work than I can keep up with on my own.

[A]

Already.

[C]

Already.

[A]

You know, you already are working more hours than you want to. And so having two of them creates a more sustainable, peaceful situation. And so it's almost as if you could say in order to have a more stable platform to run this thing from, meaning, you know, I don't lose the only means of production other than me. I'm going to put on another one for that reason alone. And then also we're going to make more money. The downside is my trade off is for more stability. I'm having to do something I'm not that fond of, which is training up another dude.

[C]

Yeah, okay. I guess I didn't quite look at it like that. So that makes sense. Like, like, if I hire another guy, like, what. What do you typically see for, like, your ROI on an employee? Like, what should I be thinking about there, you guys?

[A]

Bill, by the hour, don't you?

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yep. So you're billing the other guy out for more than he costs.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Same deal.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I'm gonna bill him out at the same rate. And, you know, he may not be as efficient. He may not. It may take a year for him to do the repair and the customer interaction and whatever else the way you would. You may have to train him not. You may have to train him a little bit on actually being an aircraft mechanic. You may have to train him also on how to do it your way.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Like, we have people come in here that know how to do the thing, but we want them to do the thing the Ramsey way. That makes sense.

[C]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

[A]

And that. That is bothersome. But you just gotta. You gotta give yourself a little emotional margin and say, okay, the trade off is I'm gonna be a little bit frustrated with catching this guy up, but the return is that I'm not as vulnerable to one of them walking in and quitting or walking in and demanding double pay or some crap. Which you'd have to fire the guy then, right?

[C]

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

[A]

And so then you'd be back to square one and messed up again. So, yeah, I think I'm going to look at doing it and. Or it might be you do it after you raise prices or before you raise prices again. And I mean, I don't. A fair price is what you charge and someone else will pay. Yep, that's a fair price because as long as you didn't lie to them, you said, this is so much, you know, an hour is what we charge. And if you want to do your work somewhere else, you might get it cheaper. But this is who we are, and we do excellent work, and we're going to be on time and your aircraft's going to be back up and serviceable again and back in the air, airworthy again. And this is what we do, and it's who we are. And, you know, we don't. We're not trying to be the cheapest. And they say, well, that's too high. You go, I know, but it's. You know, I've got to hire mechanics. I got to keep inventory on here. My wife does the books. We're not a big operation. This is who we are. And some customers may elect to move on and others and. But every other customer that stays is going to be a more profitable customer, and you're going to be glad. Glad that you have them. And again, you mentioned earlier you'd raised your prices and that had lowered some of your volume. I would do that again, is what I'm saying. And I would look at hiring someone, but gradually. You don't have to, like, do all of this in the next four days. There's nothing on fire here. But all we're saying is you're gently taking off. You're gently moving towards growth rather than gently deteriorating.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Okay. That's some really good advice. That makes a lot of sense.

[A]

So gentle that. But 10 years from now, it may look like you haven't moved much.

[C]

Right?

[A]

That's okay. But you know you have, and you know you're leaning in. Your weight is on that right foot. You know your weight is on that lean forward foot. And that's the kind of thing. But it is not required that you have 25 employees. To call yourself successful from one. No. Or to call yourself a good business person. No. You've defined what you want your business to look like. It's supposed to bring you joy and serve your customers. And so I'm good once it does that. And I like your attitude about it a lot. So very good. Very good. Very cool. Call Andrew and Anchorage, Alaska. By the way, last time I was up in Alaska, they told me this interesting stat. Andrew's in the right business. More people have pilot's license than driver's license because you can't get anywhere by car. And so they jump in a little plane of some kind and go everywhere. And I did it. I jumped in a little plane, did all kinds of stuff when I was up there. Not flying myself, but, I mean, I was in the passenger seat, but everybody's got a dadgum plane. It's crazy. And so he's in the right business. It's amazing. So very, very cool. All right, folks, that about wraps it up. Remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality, quality leaders. So take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us on entree leadership.