My Team Member Refuses to Do This Simple Request . . .

Summary

The EntreLeadership Podcast Episode: My Team Member Refuses to Do This Simple Request . . . Host: Dave Ramsey, Ramsey Network Date: March 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey addresses real-world business and leadership challenges through live coaching calls with small business leaders and owners. Topics covered include enforcing team accountability, navigating difficult employee behavior, resolving partnership imbalances, hiring for integrity, and finding the right balance between leadership and delegation. Ramsey brings his signature direct, no-nonsense style, offering actionable advice steeped in over 30 years of experience leading Ramsey Solutions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Enforcing Team Accountability: When an Employee Ignores Basic Expectations

Guest: Allison (Sales Manager, Wine & Beer Distributor; Richmond, Virginia)
Segment Timestamp: 00:47–10:45

Issue Raised:
Allison is struggling to get 100% compliance from her sales reps on submitting weekly recap reports—one team member has refused for over a month, despite repeated reminders.

Dave’s Guidance:

• Explain the Why (01:14):
  • Stress the importance of communication for inventory, ordering, and customer service.
  • “We’re going to be an excellent organization, and that involves really good communication... One of the elements of good communication is getting this data in...” (Dave, 01:23)
• Make Non-Negotiables Clear (01:45):
  • Recaps are a condition of the job, similar to making sales calls.
  • “Salesmen that don’t turn in their recaps don’t work here.” (Dave, 02:06)
• Handle Defiance Privately:
  • Don’t “unload the hammer” in front of everyone; talk directly with the problem individual (03:00).
• Progressive Discipline:
  • Give one last formal warning, in writing, with clear consequences (06:45).
  • “If you fail to turn in a report again, that will be your last day working for us.” (Dave, 06:45)
• Attitude Over Tenure:
  • Longevity doesn’t excuse poor behavior.
  • “He thinks he can’t get fired. He must have been there a while.” (Dave, 05:53)
• Consider Team Impact:
  • Keeping a toxic team member drags down morale.
  • “Everyone else is watching to see if you’re going to react to it.” (Dave, 09:18)

Memorable Quote:
“If you wouldn’t hire him again, why are you keeping him?” (Dave, 08:43)

2. Navigating Family Business Partnerships

Guest: Jason (Co-Owner, Lawn Care Service; Cedar Rapids, Iowa)
Segment Timestamp: 12:58–23:23

Issue Raised:
Jason, co-owner with his brother, feels his brother is not pulling his weight and is struggling with the balance between profit distribution, ownership equity, and preserving their family relationship.

Dave’s Guidance:

• Prioritize Relationships Over Business:
  • “My relationship with you as your brother is more important to me than this business...” (Dave, 14:44)
• Equity Must Reflect Contribution:
  • Ownership has value only at sale; profit shares can be adjusted, but the underlying equity must eventually align with reality.
• Start Separating Assets:
  • Offer options: split the company, buy out for a generous amount, or phase out involvement (18:06).
• Be Clear About Timelines:
  • “I’m giving you notice right now. I’m not going to be here... We’re going to be doing something different.” (Dave, 19:18)
• Avoid Long-Term Resentment:
  • Choose short-term “friction or guilt” over endless resentment (22:43).
  • “Resentment goes on forever.” (Dave, 22:43)

Memorable Quote:
"Choose friction... over resentment, because guilt and friction have an end to them. Resentment goes on forever." (Dave, 22:43)

3. Hiring for Integrity and Values in High-Skill Roles

Guest: Bruce (Home Maintenance Business Owner; St. Louis)
Segment Timestamp: 26:26–35:46

Issue Raised:
Difficulty in hiring and retaining technicians who meet both high technical and high integrity standards. Most turnover during the 90-day probation period is due to character issues.

Dave’s Guidance:

• Be Upfront About Values:
  • Tell stories during interviews of past bad behavior and company response (29:32).
  • “You need to know that... we are like freaking nuts around here about integrity.” (Dave, 31:01)
• Use Candid Questions:
  • Pose hypotheticals to see candidate reactions, e.g., “Our CEO carries a gun every day. How does that make you feel?” (Dave, 32:24)
• Family Interviews:
  • Consider re-instituting spouse interviews—sometimes a partner can “smell a bad dude faster than I can.” (Dave, 34:53)
• Don’t Rush the Process:
  • “You get tempted to hire a body... But man, then you end up with people in your business that are stealing from you and treating your customers wrong. I would rather grow slow and have a good life and not go there.” (Dave, 36:20)

Memorable Quote:
"I would rather grow slow and have a good life and not go there." (Dave, 36:20)

4. Balancing Leadership and Delegation as the Company Scales

Guest: Heath (Founder, Construction Technology Company; Dallas, TX/Kansas City)
Segment Timestamp: 38:08–43:18

Issue Raised:
Struggled with when and how to insert himself into day-to-day operations as the company and leadership team have grown.

Dave’s Guidance:

• Set Clear Leadership Focus:
  • “I work on big things, broken things, and brand new things.” (Dave, 38:45)
• Support Your Leaders:
  • “The job of the leader is to knock down barriers, solve problems, to make the person that they’re leading more effective.” (Dave, 39:34)
• Balance Visibility and Autonomy:
  • Don’t “swoop and poop”—avoid micromanaging, but show up and be physically present to demonstrate support (42:02).
• Servant Leadership:
  • “Leadership is service. It’s a servant’s heart.” (Dave, 42:35)
• Ivory Tower Syndrome:
  • Ivory tower leadership is an attitude, not an action. By staying humble and serving, you avoid falling into that trap.

Memorable Quote:
“Servant leader wants to help them get their job done and make things easier... Ivory tower is, I’m going to stand up on top and throw rocks.” (Dave, 42:35)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Defiant Employees:
  “He’s unhappy with a lot of things, and there’s no point in keeping a guy around who’s dragging himself and the whole team down.” (Dave, 09:55)

• On Family Partnerships:
  “Your dad both gave you half, and one’s pissing it away and one’s not. There’s no guilt.” (Dave, 20:37)

• On Interviewing for Values:
  “I try to run them off in the interview. If I’m going to have to run them off later, I’d rather run them off before I hire them.” (Dave, 31:34)

• On Growth:
  “I would rather grow slow and have a good life and not go there.” (Dave, 36:20)

• On Leadership Involvement:
  “Big things, broken things, and new things... that’s what I work on.” (Dave, 38:45)

• On Servant Leadership:
  “Leadership is service. It’s a servant’s heart.” (Dave, 42:35)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:47 — Allison’s question on handling non-compliant employees
• 03:56 — Detailed strategy and discipline steps for defiant staff
• 12:58 — Jason’s family partnership dilemma
• 18:05 — Options for splitting, buying out, or phasing out a partner
• 26:26 — Bruce on hiring for technical skill + integrity
• 31:01 — Recruiting with integrity and culture in mind
• 35:46 — On being patient and not rushing hiring
• 38:08 — Heath on balancing founder involvement with delegation
• 42:02 — Avoiding “ivory tower” leadership and leading by serving

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Summary

Dave Ramsey's advice throughout this episode is direct, practical, and focused on building strong, values-based organizations. He stresses the critical importance of clarity, accountability, and the courage to address difficult situations, whether with uncooperative employees or misaligned partners. He also emphasizes servant leadership, slow and intentional growth, and thorough hiring processes that prioritize character as much as skill. For Ramsey, business success is inseparable from strong culture and clear, principled leadership.

Transcript

[A]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is Entre Leadership, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you got a question you want to ask on the show, fill out the form entree leadership.com ask or call and leave a voicemail at 844-944 1070 that numbers 844-944-1070. Allison is with us in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Allison, how are you?

[B]

I'm good, Dave. How are you doing?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

[B]

So I work for a wine and beer distributor. I've been a sales manager for one year and really I'm the first one to be in this position. We have about 18 employees, 12 reps are under me, and our revenue is 6.9 million. And my question is, how can I inspire and support my sales team to turn in their weekly recaps?

[A]

Well, I mean, there's a couple things. We start with an explanation as to why this information is important. And that would sound like the details, the tactical details. If we have this information, we can act on it and help you guys in the field by making sure supplies are there, inventory's done properly, everybody's planning, and that way you don't end up promising a customer something you can't deliver. And we have to have the data to do that. Okay, so that's thing one thing too is you could start even at a higher level and you could say, hey, look, most organizations don't have good communication and most organizations suck. We're going to be an excellent organization, and that involves really good communication. We're going to practice good communication. One of the elements of good communication is getting this data in on these recaps every week. And so it's really, really important from an inventory management standpoint, from an ordering standpoint, everything else delivery standpoint, that we know what you're doing in the if we don't know that, we're going to end up letting the customer down because of bad communication. And so that's why we're doing the reports. So now that you know that, also know that you're doing the report, it's a condition of your job. Like, you know, it'd be like, I don't want to make sales calls. Oh, well, I don't care. That's a condition of your job. There's a reason you make sales calls because that cause that's how you make sales. There's a reason you make sales calls because that's where your money comes from. There's a reason you make sales calls, but the biggest reason you make sales calls is you're a salesman. And salesmen that don't make sales calls don't work here. And salesmen that don't turn in their recaps don't work here. I'm not going to. I'm going to unload that hammer on them until I've done the other stuff. And I'm not going to unload that hammer to the whole meeting, the sales meeting. But if I got one goober that's too arrogant to follow through, I'm going to pull him aside and we're going to say, hey, look, I've explained to you why this is. Do you have any reason to think that we don't need these reports? No. Then you need to know that I'm going to have to see these reports from you or you're not going to have a place to work. This is how it works. We're asking you to do this because it's very, very important. It's part of being a grownup.

[B]

Right? So I calculated that our rate for these reps submitting is about 84.5%. And you can see probably guess I have one guy, the goober, as you mentioned, who has literally went over one month without turning it in. And I have tried.

[A]

I would just have a difficult. I'd have a difficult conversation with him. Then I would just say, listen, apparently you're not understanding it. Let me make sure, because I don't want to be unclear. It's not fair for me to be unclear with you. I need to explain to you one more time that this is part of your job. And if you're not going to do your job, then you're going to have to work somewhere where you can do your job differently. But here we turn in our sales reports. If you want to be a we, you know, I have to have this. But if you don't want to be. If you don't want to work here, all you got to do is not turn them in anymore. And that'll solve your problem. You won't be working here because if you. I'm going to. I'm going to talk to you about one more time about this, and then I'm going to give you an absolute ultimatum that if you ever miss again, I'm going to fire you. And so nobody's getting fired today but you need to hear really, really clearly. I'm on your team. I want you to win. I appreciate the work you do, but just ignoring something that we've all agreed that we're all doing, and you think you're the only one that'll do it, we're not going to do that. And if you can do that in private and sit down with him, if he still doesn't get it, you're going to have to fire him.

[B]

Yeah, I was thinking that was probably the answer.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, so what do you think the probability is if you get real direct with him and you can be kind, but very, very blunt, very clear, hey, I'm rooting for you. I want you to win. I want you to be here. I like the work you do, but you can't be the only guy on the whole team that doesn't do this. And you basically are the only guy on the team that doesn't do it.

[B]

Yeah, I actually recently had to have one of those conversations because it was kind of like he was ignoring my calls and wasn't getting back to me. But essentially his answer was, well, I don't have anything nice to say, and if I can't say anything nice, I shouldn't say anything at all. So it's probably a little bit of a deeper problem.

[A]

Yeah, this guy's a butt.

[B]

Yeah, he's.

[A]

He thinks. He thinks he can't get fired. He must have been there a while.

[B]

Yeah, a little while. And he's a cool dude. It's just.

[A]

No, he's a butt. He's not a cool dude at all. I'm going to ignore a direct request from my boss. And the way I ignore it is if I ain't got anything nice to say, I'm not going to say nothing. That's the way you're going to do this. I mean, what are you for? I mean, that. That's ridiculous. So, no, I don't think this guy's going to make it.

[B]

Yeah, I. I hate it. But, I mean, I've. I've been doing a lot of work to get, like, the Kras and spelling everything out, which, you know, turning in your paperwork is on the Kra that everybody signed like a month ago. So.

[A]

So, I mean, I'm going to sit down with him one more time. I'm going to say, listen, I'm afraid that you're not going to be with us any longer, and I hate that, but if you can't do this, that's going to be the result. So you need to Sign this right here. And this says, if you fail to turn in a report again, that will be your last day working for us. This is your last. This is your formal warning, your own probation. And so you're going to have to have just. I mean, if you want to give him one last shot. I honestly think the guy probably just needs to leave, though, because I think he's running around behind your back running his mouth, too. That's this guy. There's an arrogance in what he's doing that is not acceptable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how old are you?

[B]

I'm 30.

[A]

How old is he?

[B]

36.

[A]

Okay, so he's not like some old dude doing this. Okay.

[B]

No, just being.

[A]

He's just being a twerp. Okay. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's sad. You know, my guess. My guess. Am I. Is he a high producer?

[B]

He was actually. The last couple of years, it's just really tanked. And it also feels like he's kind of the biggest complainer and isn't really solutions oriented. He just wants to complain about the things that's preventing him from doing better. I mean, he also said he didn't want to go open new accounts because what's the point if we had out of stock issues or something?

[A]

So he didn't get out of stock issues because you didn't turn in your dadgum report. Okay, so here's the thing. One last thing. And when I teach entree leadership on hiring and firing, I often say, don't fire somebody right this second, but you can. But I mean, I got a room full of 2,000 entrepreneurs and I'm speaking to them, and this one will get you right here. If you wouldn't hire him again, why are you keeping him? And you wouldn't hire this guy?

[B]

No.

[A]

Do you have the power to fire him?

[B]

I have a lot of. I mean, not the final say, but I do have a lot of influence and they do listen to my advice.

[A]

I think I would sit down with your leader and say, I think so and so's got to go. I don't think he. I've tried everything and I don't think he's salvageable. I think his attitude left the building and he needs to take his body with it because he's. Let me tell you, I promise you that a guy like this is running down the rest of the team. He's not causing anyone to be excited. He's causing people to be down in the dumps and you're going to feel like cool breath of fresh air blows through the building when you get rid of him. And it's sad because he's done it to himself. But there's nothing worse than a bad out of attitude, an arrogant attitude towards leadership. And he's testing you. And by the way, everybody else is watching to see if you're going to react to it. So I'm sorry, but you're, you know, you probably need to sit down with your boss this week and say, I hate it, but I can't seem to turn this guy around. I got everybody else going and I'm afraid he's bringing everybody else down. So I really think he needs to be somewhere else. I think he'll be happier.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. I would let that guy go. I would set him free in Jesus name for sure. That's what I would do. And it's not mean, it's not arrogant, it's not anger. I'm not being a bully. It's none of that. It's. He's unhappy with a lot of things and there's no point in keeping a guy around who's dragging himself down and the whole team down. And, and it's just straight up, you know, he's straight up not submitting the leadership's request. That's not, not. You just can't do that. It's not an option. You know, if you want to do that, you need to run your own business. Hello. That's how this stuff works. So yeah, that's what I would do. I'm sorry. A hard thing for him and you. Yeah, I think I would. I'd probably. I don't see that being selfish if

[C]

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[A]

Running a business can feel insanely lonely. As a business owner, the weight of every decision and every tough call falls back on you. Here's the truth. Great leaders don't go it alone. That's why you need an entree leadership advisory group. Group Our advisory group coaches have helped thousands of small business owners go from stuck and frustrated to scaling and confident. They'll guide you through the playbook that I used to. Take Ramsey Solutions from a card table in my living room to a $300 million company and you'll join 8 to 10 like minded business owners who are working in the trenches right alongside you. So stop trying to go it alone and start building your business with clarity and confidence. Go to entree leadership.com coaching and fill out the form to talk to our team or just click the link in the show notes. Jason is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Hi Jason, how are you?

[D]

I'm great. Thanks for having me on. It's an honor to speak with you.

[A]

You too, sir. What's up?

[D]

Well, I'm a 50% owner of a small lawn care service. Last year we did just over 400,000 in revenue with the profit margin about 75%. We have five full time seasonal workers. My question for you is how do I navigate being in a 5050 partnership when the other partner is a bit of a donkey

[A]

by. So you're saying he's, you're saying he's not pulling his weight?

[D]

Correct.

[A]

In what way? Tell me, tell me about it.

[D]

Well, the business was formed over 15 years ago when I was 14, just to learn the value of work. And back then it was a third, a third and a third between my father, my brother and myself. My father passed away about six years ago and we then became 5050 partners. And last season he missed at least some work on 32 different days. He's just less competent, has less drive and he'd rather put things off and than get them done. And we had a discussion recently about the lack of attendance and poor attitude and kind of the disparity in the workload. And actually that conversation went pretty well. And we decided going forward we're going to split profits 65 and 35%. But the ownership he doesn't want to budge on at 50 50. All that being said, I struggle to see into the future, how his role is going to grow as he's less competent. Even if he does shape up, we have a strong relationship outside of work and we Play sports together. And I've got kids.

[A]

You're. You're 20 years old.

[D]

What's that? No, I'm 30.

[A]

You're 30 years old.

[D]

Correct.

[A]

So you've done this for 16 years?

[E]

Correct.

[A]

Okay. And your dad passed away how long ago?

[D]

Six years ago.

[A]

Okay. So I assume there's absolutely no partnership documents of any kind?

[D]

Not right now.

[A]

Okay. All right. And the day to day, getting customers billing, dealing with the customers. Who's doing that?

[D]

All me.

[E]

Okay.

[A]

Wow. Now the. And the 400,000 was your gross revs, that's not your profit?

[E]

Correct.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Our expenses were about 90 grand last year, so about 310 a little over.

[A]

So you made 100 and a half each?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Well, I, I think you just got to keep an open conversation with him going and say, listen, okay, number one, my relationship with you as your brother is more important to me than this business. And this business is starting to sour the relationship because of the discussion we had the other day. And you know, you want to be a 50% owner in something that you don't contribute 50% to.

[D]

Correct.

[A]

And that's, that's just not right. And we need to keep talking about that. So when you think about how to solve this, because I don't think you're going to come back and carry the 50% of the load. I think we're all in agreement on that. So since you're not. Since you're not, how are we going to solve this where you're not the 50% owner anymore? Maybe I buy you out. You know, if this was a. And I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[E]

Yeah, I think it's just kind of

[D]

got an ego about being that 50% over or owner and he's stubborn about it. He's willing to give up money for it. Like the percentage of profit being split, you know, towards my way.

[A]

Yeah, but, but he's still not, still not doing anything. Well, the ownership has no value except for the profit it creates right now. So that's a misnomer in that the 50% ownership has no relevancy until you sell it. If it's not how you're calculating profit split. Right. If you change the way we're calculating profit split, it could be 90, 10 and 50, 50 owners. But the ownership, that means nothing unless we sell the business then. And it's just kind of weird. Is this his only job and your only job?

[E]

Correct.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, well, I think you start talking to him and just go, okay, we're going to have to move in A different direction. We don't have to do it instantly. And I'm not, you know, I'm not saying. But two years from today, I'm not going to be sitting where we are right now. I'm not okay with it. So we need to think about how we take this. If you want to take some of the customers and you want to go run your part, and I'll go run my part, just two separate businesses, we can do that. I mean, you own 50%. I'll give you 50% of the customers if you want them.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And 50% of the. The lawnmowers and 50% of the team. If you want to go do that. And we'll just split it and you go run your thing, I'll go run mine, and we can do that. I can buy you out. But I'm not going to continue to build a business that you're the 50% owner in when you're not contributing 50% of the effort. It's not fair to me. And so we've got to think about how we're going to do this, how we can break this up in a way that you're good with and that I'm good with, because we still want to be friends. We still want to be brothers. And again, there's no hurry. And I'm not trying to slit your throat, but we do need to start talking about how we're going to do this, because I'm not going to. Sitting the way it is is not going to continue. The only question now on the table is what are we going to do? Because we're not going to keep doing what we're doing right now.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Giving you 35%, me, 65%. You keeping 50% is not a fix for me. I'm. That's not a good for me. It's good for you. You're accepting that, but I'm not. I'm telling you, I'm not accepting that. That's not okay. It's okay for a little while, but long term. Long term, it's a bad idea.

[D]

I think it's just a band aid for right now.

[A]

Yeah, that's exactly. Say that. Just say that it was a band aid for right now to start the discussion. And then, you know. But I. Sometimes I get in these situations and I rush them too much, and that damages the relationship. And so I've learned to slow down and say, you know, we can do this over a period of a year. I just don't want to be 40 and still doing this the way we're doing it right now, as a matter of fact, I'm not going to be 40 and do this the way we're doing it right now. I'm giving you notice right now. I'm not going to be here. We're. I'm going to be doing something different. And of course, we both know worst case scenario, there's nothing stopping you whatsoever from just shutting down this business and the next morning opening up another one. And you'll take all the clients and he gets nothing. Yeah, but that's screwing your brother, and that's not a good long term play. But legally and from a practical, tactical standpoint, you could do that. I'm not recommending that, though. But my point is, he's not holding many cards. Yeah, you got all the cards in your hand.

[D]

Yeah, I kind of struggle with the guilt, knowing that there's no guilt.

[A]

There's no guilt. There's no guilt. Your dad both gave you half, and one's pissing it away and one's not. There's no guilt. He's the one should struggle with guilt.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You haven't done anything wrong. If you did something wrong, there'd be guilt. But I would deal with the unpleasantness rather than deal facing this and beginning some kind of friction that's at some level, in an effort to preserve the relationship. Because, you know you're going to have tremendous. You're either going to have some level of unpleasantness or you're going to have resentment.

[D]

Mm.

[A]

Because you already got resentment started.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I'm resenting him. And I'm not even there. You know, just based on this discussion. It's not. Because it's not fair. It's not right. You know, and it wasn't what your dad intended. He. He was trying to teach his boys both to work. One of them didn't learn it, you know, and so he didn't do anything wrong. The only thing did wrong was you guys have no partnership documents at all. And that should have been established the day he died or before he died. And y' all should have been talking about, you know, here's what happens if one of you is not carrying their weight. It's forced by, you know, and so I'm just gonna begin talking to him saying, listen, okay, I'll pay you $50,000 a year for three years for doing nothing, and you go get a job and buy you out, you know, and. Or what's the third? Let's see, 35% is. That's probably about 50 grand in it, maybe 60.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Listen, you can quit tomorrow and I'll pay you for three years and we'll call that your buyout. That's pretty sweet deal. Because it's obvious you don't want to be here anymore. You're stuck, and I don't want you to be stuck. You're my brother. I love you. You know, I'm offering you a way out. I mean, we can do something like that. You could get pretty radical and pay him and him not be there. You really wouldn't notice much now.

[E]

Yeah, I like that.

[A]

You know, so you can afford to be generous, but not. But the generosity doesn't go to. But John Deloney talks about this in relationship things all the time. Choose friction or some level of guilt, if you want to call it that word. I don't agree with that in this situation, but choose guilt or friction over resentment, because guilt and friction have an end to them. Resentment goes on forever.

[D]

Yeah. We've been on this road for a long time. So.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I. I bet you if you go back in your memory to 16 years old, he wasn't carrying his part.

[D]

You're not wrong.

[A]

Yeah. And so that this is. This is, you know, it's a splinter and it's festering. That's resentment. And so I think it's best for your love of your brother to figure out some way that he is smiling about the fact that he got the best deal in the world and it's over, and then he's happy. And I don't mind if he gets all the ego out of it. I don't mind if he gets too much money out of it. I don't mind any of that. If it's over and I don't have to deal with him anymore, I kind of look at that. Sometimes we pay too much severance. I mean, we let a guy go the other day here at Ramsey, and the severance was kind of ridiculously large. And one of my new leaders was asking me about it, and he's like, dave, that this just seems like it's too much. I said, yeah, but when I'm 92 and I'm on my deathbed, I'm not thinking about, I cut that guy. Instead, I'm thinking about, I overpaid him as he went out. I was overly generous. He had a bad day. He lost his job. You know, I had a bad moment. I lost a little bit of money. And so you can afford to be generous with the math if it gets rid of the problem and there's an end to it. Once you see an end to this and there's light at the end of the tunnel, you're gonna breathe different. This is standing on your chest and you're feeling the stress of it. And your wife knows it. That's for sure. For sure. Wow. Be careful about partnerships. Wow. It's the only ship they want to sail. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys. I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business. For real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags, inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey that's netsuite.com Ramsey. Bruce is with us in St. Louis. Hey, Bruce, how are you?

[E]

Good. Thanks for having me on, Dave.

[A]

Absolutely, brother. How can we help?

[E]

Well, I've got a business that has nine employees who do 1.2 million gross yearly. And we've been in business about 21 years. We kind of invented our space where we sell a home maintenance plan to residential homeowners and we take care of their home repairs and maintenance. So essentially, when we work for a high end clientele, so essentially we're looking to hire probably the top 5% of technicians or home repair guys. You know, they can't just know one thing. They got to know everything. They got to be experienced and they got to be able to handle things on the fly because who knows what they're going to throw at them. And they have a good customer interaction. So the top 5%. So my question is, so they got

[A]

people skills in addition to fixing a dishwasher Exactly. Not to mention integrity. Yeah, okay.

[E]

Exactly. Yeah, everything. Yep. So anyway, we've had some success at improving our hiring process over the years, but one thing we're struggling with right now is we need to hire more people. And we tend to lose people during the 90 day probation period more than we would like. We either lose them or we get rid of them. So we want to improve our ratio. What are some things we can do to help recognize moral compass or character traits before the 90 day probationary period?

[A]

Okay, so that's why you're losing them, is their personal style. I mean, their character. Lack of character is causing you to lose them more than anything else.

[E]

Well, I'd say it's 50. 50. We're losing some because of they don't have the skills that we thought they had. We have a pretty extensive testing process in our interview process. It's very involved. We have a lot of questions. So we have a pretty good idea of how their ability is.

[A]

How many have you lost during the 90 day period in the last two years?

[E]

About five.

[A]

Okay. And how many of those were due to tech? How many of those were technical skills and how many of those were moral and value and character issues?

[E]

One was on technical and forward. The moral okay or character okay.

[A]

And what type of moral failure did they have? What, what was their issue?

[E]

Well, they don't align with our values. We have eight values. The biggest one is we tell the truth around here. You know, so they're. We're finding out that they're, they're covering for themselves in this way or that way. We've had a couple of guys steal from us by, by using the company card. You know, it takes us a while to catch it, that kind of stuff.

[A]

Gotcha. Okay.

[E]

But essentially to not showing up on time or leaving early and we find out from the customer, that kind of stuff.

[A]

Okay, so they're, they're a lack of truthfulness and. Or just stealing. Okay. All right.

[E]

Correct. Well,

[A]

I would say that one thing we could do is to. This pops into my mind instantaneously is just go ahead and tell those stories when you're interviewing and say, you know, we've had a couple people join us and they thought they could steal, and we've got systems and we find someone steals, they get fired instantly. You need to know that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And we've had a couple people that told us they were working and the customer tells us they're not at the job and that's not telling the truth. And we've. One of our core values Here is about the truth, right? Whatever your core value is, right? And, and this is. These core values are not brochure fillers. This is who we are. And so if you have a problem, we're going to have your back. If the kid is sick, we're going to work with you, but you have to tell us the truth. And you can't steal, and I don't think that's you, but I need to tell you that, that we are like freaking nuts around here about integrity. We're crazy. And if you don't want to work in a place that's, like, uptight about integrity, you won't like it here. Because we're uptight about integrity, we're freaks about it. And so you need to know that. That, you need to know that coming in because, you know, we find this out in the first 90 days when you're here, and then the job doesn't stick because you don't, you know, you didn't tell us something. So you got to, you got to tell us everything that's going on, and we'll help you. We'll be there with you. We're not, we're not merciless, but we are merciless when the truth isn't told. And so we've got it. You got to, you know, just bring that up in your, in your interview process. There's nothing wrong with that. You can fire somebody for not telling the truth and you can warn somebody. And, and I don't want you to, you know, I don't know where else you worked or how weird they were, but we're kind of weird around here, and this is how we view it. And if you want to be a we, you know, and you need to leave early from a customer's thing, you need to tell us that you're leaving early and why. And, and obviously you can't use company credit card and steal from us, and you can't steal tools and you can't be, you know, so. So these are obvious things, but a lot of places, they don't bother with that. They don't think about it, but we're, like, nuts about it around here. And so you're, you know, the guys that came here, they don't work here anymore, and they didn't like it because they thought we were nuts. And I just need to tell you up front, you're not going to like it if, if you're, if, you know, but if you do like being among a bunch of people that tell the truth all the time. And that follow through and that do stuff. If you like that, then you're gonna love it here. And I would love to. What I try to do with interview questions is I try to run them off in the interview. If I'm gonna have to run them off later, I'd rather run them off before I find. Before I hire them.

[E]

Sure. Yep.

[A]

Okay. So one of the funny ones, it's almost humorous, but in today's world, it's kind of weird. We're in Tennessee, and, you know, a bunch of us are just rednecks at work here, and a lot of us are hunters, and we carry. We. We carry a pistol. Most of us. Okay. Like, 98% of us. Okay in the. In the building. And it's crazy. So. But one of the interview questions is, our CEO carries a gun every day. How does that make you feel?

[E]

Yeah, that'll get to the point.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of weird, isn't it? It doesn't like, you know, it's like, oh, God, you guys are Froot Loops. I'm not working over there. You know? And we've had people post online that we're weirdos, because we are weirdos. I mean, but we're in a culture. We're in a cultural setting here in Tennessee. And I grew up in this environment to where it's just like carrying a wallet or having car keys, as far as I'm concerned.

[D]

You know?

[A]

And so. And I would never shoot anybody. I would run. I don't want to shoot anybody. I'd run away if I could.

[E]

Right.

[A]

But. But. But I've just. It's part of, you know, and there's a hunting rifle in my green room right now that I just bought that was delivered today, you know, and so, you know, you just need to know that kind of stuff is here, otherwise, you know, you're going to freak out when you walk in the green room and there's a dadgum hunting rifle laying in there. And so, yeah, that's just like we warn you ahead of time. So it's a different subject matter than integrity. Integrity is more important by far. But we just go, okay, we had to let a guy go. The last guy that took this position because he stole. He used the company credit card to buy himself something. What do you think about that? You can just say and turn it into a question. Go, what do you think about that? We had a guy that left early. He came late and left early and said he didn't. He lied about it, and we let him go. What do you think about that, because we're nuts about integrity. I mean, I just bring all this up in the interview, and you could ask the question and see how they react. Are you guys doing a spousal interview where you go out with the spouses before you hire them?

[E]

We don't. We quit doing that. We did that some years ago and we quit. We feel like as we're hiring technical positions, some of our candidates are like, dang, this is the most thorough interview I've been in. Which I want. I want that. But we feel like we had to cut it off somewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, but we're not doing those.

[A]

Well, the reason I ask is, is that sometimes my wife can smell a bad dude faster than I can.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

She's like, there's something wrong with that guy. I don't know what it is, but there's something wrong with that guy. And we get back in the car, she's like, the way he treated his wife, the way he looked at her, he. There's something wrong. I mean, they pick up on stuff sometimes that I don't pick up on. And so.

[E]

Sure.

[A]

You know, that that might also be an answer. Is to reinstitute that. It is kind. It is.

[E]

Can I ask a secondary question? Do we have time for secondary question? Okay, so one of our issues is that we're struggling to find, like, if we interview 10 people, I don't like any of the 10. Okay. So then we go to 10 more, and we don't like any of those 10, but we kind of feel like we have to pick, like, the best of the 10 because we need somebody. So I know that's a bad position to be in, but we're kind of pressured against that because there's. There's not the perfect candidate out there. We feel like, okay, this is a better compromise over here than this is over here. So I think this is the guy

[A]

we want to try to make an offer. I felt that way for 30 years. It's the most frustrating thing. But what I've discovered is I'm going to spend X amount of time on this position. I'm either going to have to rehire it four times because I got in too big a hurry and compromised my values and put somebody in there that I knew I shouldn't have put in there, and so I get to do it over, or I'm going to take that exact same amount of time and do it once. Right. And it's just. But it's a pain. You're right. It's God, I hate it. And we get in a pinch around here and we need the help. We need the work to get done. We got stuff backing up and you just get tempted to hire a body and throw a body at it. But man, then you end up with corporate America and you end up with people in your business that are stealing from you and treating your customers wrong. And then you get through it again because you got to fire them because you got in too big a hurry or you compromise that. Okay, this guy's not quite really what we want, but I'm going to hire him anyway just because I'm more concerned about the work than I am the culture. I would rather grow slow and have a good life and not go there. That's what I would do. It's what we have done, but it's tough. Sa. Guys, if you want to help us out, click the follow button, the subscribe button. Leave us a nice review. Share this show with your friend. If you ain't got something nice to say, just don't say it. Go somewhere else. It's okay. We don't mind. Hey. You can submit your questions [e-mail] you can call us at 844-944-1070. We'd love to have you. Heath is with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Heath. How are you?

[F]

Hey, Mr. Ramsey, thank you so much for the time.

[A]

My pleasure. How can we help?

[F]

Well, in 2018, I founded a construction technology company in my spare bedroom. And since then we've grown to be just over 40 team members with offices in both Kansas City and Dallas, Texas.

[A]

Wow.

[F]

As my company has grown, I've struggled with, I guess, my internal dialogue on how to lead from the front while allowing my leadership team to have the influence they need and not step on their toes. So how do I balance my involvement versus the leadership teams for day to day tasks?

[A]

I tell my leadership team and I have for 20 years, that I work on three things, big things, broken things, and brand new things. And I'm going to work with you on all of those things. If everything you're doing is running right and it's not brand new and it's not huge, it's not the major part of our business by yourself. Like, if you're managing something that's 50% of my business, I'm going to be in your business. Okay. If you're managing something that's 20% of our business and you're running it, well, I'm going to leave you alone. But if it's broken. You expect me to help you, and that's what I'm here for. I'm to help you. The job of the leader is to knock down barriers, solve problems, to make the person that they're leading more effective. And if the person you're leading is another leader, you're making them more effective. If you've cleaned the road, smoothed the road before they get to it, and then they can just do their thing with their team. That's not micromanaging. But if I look up and I see in the numbers or I see in the weekly reports or I see in the turnover ratio in that area that there's some kind of a problem, I'm going to insert myself, myself back into that leader's business because it's broken. The numbers are saying his sales are down or whatever. That area is not performing well. It's broken. So I'm going to get real involved. And I'm not there to. To take over, but I'm there to come alongside him or her and knock down barriers and to help them solve the problem together. Because obviously they hadn't solved it by themselves or I wouldn't be here, wouldn't be there. Yeah, but I work on big things, broken things and new things. So we're launching a new initiative. I'm going to get real involved. I'm entrepreneurial. I've got a gift at that. If there's something broken, I can come back and help you now analyze it and, and, you know, I'll help you with this. And go, okay, I'm seeing something here you're not seeing. And I'm going to walk with you, not instead of you and not on top of you, but I'm going to come alongside you and walk with you while we fix your business unit together. But that's going to be very, very, very proactive is what it's going to be. And so the big things, honestly, I don't even get that involved in the big things. That's the least of those three is the big ones. But broken and new, man, I'm all over it because I'm there walking beside them, helping to, you know, chop the. We're chopping our way through the jungle together, man. And, you know, we both got a machete and we're both swinging and we're both talking and we're. It's a band of brothers. We're here to win this battle together and all that kind of stuff. Our band of sisters, whatever, I don't care. But the. That's the you know, so I don't look at it as I'm micromanaging. I look at it as I'm co leading where I got something broken. Broken or new.

[F]

I think what it is is I might just have like a mental block or a fear because, you know, starting out in my spare bedroom, everything was me. And so as we've grown, I have this fear of like, I don't want to be viewed as that guy in the ivory tower while my crew is doing overtime or like struggling through something. You know what I mean? Maybe, like I said, maybe it's just like me being in my head and that's not.

[A]

You can, you know, you could physically be there. You can just show up if they're doing a bunch of overtime, show up with some pizzas or something, you know?

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

And just go, guys, you know, I remember burning the midnight oil and I'm not the guy. I'm not that far removed from it. And I'm in here to say thanks. And is there something I can help you with? Can I carry out the trash? I mean, you know, brought you some food. Can I answer a phone for you? What can I do? How can I help you? Because you're in here getting it done and I appreciate it. And you know, you're just coming along beside them then, but you're also not doing Seagull where you swoop in and poop all over everything. Right?

[F]

That's what I've historically kind of had problems with. I get in the middle of it and then I can't do what I'm supposed to be doing.

[A]

Yeah, you don't want to swoop and poop, but you do want to get in there and be involved and just. I'm here to serve. Leadership is service. It's a servant's heart. And so I'm here to help you guys. And Ivory tower is, is not a servant's heart. Ivory tower is a. You know, it's not necessarily what you're tactically doing. It's the spirit of the ivory tower versus the spirit of the servant. Leader is. Servant leader wants to help them get their job done and make things easier for them to get their job done. Knock down blockers, help work through, give them ideas they didn't have. Whatever it is, I want to serve you. Ivory tower is I'm going to stand up on top and throw rocks.

[F]

Yeah, that makes total sense. I really appreciate the insight on that.

[A]

Sure. You're a good man. You're asking the right questions. People that are ivory tower never even asked these questions. So you're not ivory tower, I can tell you that. But also, don't be afraid to stay inserted in your business. It is your business. It is your brand, and the customer does count on you more than they count on that guy or that gal that we're talking about here. So that's how the whole deal works. Good question, man. Appreciate you, man. Good stuff. Hey, folks, remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more humor, quality leaders. So take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us on entree leadership.