Our Business Is in the Red (Is It Time to Lay People Off?)

Summary

The EntreLeadership Podcast: "Our Business Is in the Red (Is It Time to Lay People Off?)" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: August 11, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey
Description: Dave Ramsey leverages over 30 years of business and leadership experience to provide real-time coaching to business leaders facing challenges.

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Introduction

In this episode of The EntreLeadership Podcast, Dave Ramsey tackles the pressing issue many business owners face: declining revenues and the difficult decision of whether to lay off employees. Drawing from real-life caller experiences, Ramsey offers actionable advice grounded in his extensive leadership background.

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Caller 1: Brian from Grand Rapids – Navigating Financial Decline and Employment Decisions

Timestamp: [00:50]

Background:
Brian, the owner of a consulting firm in Grand Rapids, discusses his company's significant revenue decline. Last year, his firm generated approximately $2.5 million in revenue, but economic downturns led to a 50% reduction in revenue by Q1 of the current year, resulting in a $40,000 loss ([02:19]). Brian is contemplating reducing his staff of six due to these financial strains but is hesitant because of the strong team alignment and commitment to the company's mission.

Dave Ramsey’s Guidance:

1. Assess the Situation with Facts:
   Ramsey emphasizes the importance of basing decisions on factual data rather than emotional reactions. He reiterates the principle: “Facts are my friends” ([03:02]). In high-stress scenarios, it's easy for emotions to cloud judgment, leading to exaggerated perceptions of problems.

2. Evaluate Financial Trends:
   Ramsey asks Brian to consider the trajectory of their financial losses. With Q2 projection indicating an additional $10,000 loss ([02:39]), he probes whether the business is stabilizing or continuing its decline.

3. Strategic Decision-Making:
   Ramsey advises Brian to determine if the business is on a path to recovery. If revenue trends are improving and there's a clear path to breaking even and returning to profitability, he suggests avoiding layoffs ([05:38]). However, if the trend indicates a sustained decline with no foreseeable recovery, layoffs may be inevitable.

4. Communication and Transparency:
   Ramsey stresses the importance of communicating transparently with the team about the financial state and potential outcomes. Sharing the company's situation fosters trust and prepares employees for possible changes.

5. Preventative Measures:
   Drawing from Ramsey's experience during the COVID-19 pandemic, he outlines steps to stabilize the business:

   • Burning Cash Strategically: Limit cash reserves to a certain level.
   • Leadership Sacrifices: Leaders should consider reducing their own pay or holding bonuses.
   • Employee Support: Implement measures like freezing pay increases before considering layoffs.

Notable Quote:
"Facts are my friends." – Dave Ramsey ([03:02])

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Caller 2: Jake from Springfield – Supporting Leadership Growth Post-Conference

Timestamp: [13:27]

Background:
Jake, managing a remodeling construction company with three full-time employees, seeks advice on supporting his boss who recently attended an EntreLeadership conference. The company, which generated about $2 million last year, has seen significant strategic planning but struggles to maintain those conversations amidst daily operations.

Dave Ramsey’s Guidance:

1. Regular Check-Ins:
   Ramsey recommends establishing bi-weekly meetings where Jake can discuss ongoing projects and understand how to support the strategic goals set during the conference ([24:09]).

2. Clear Communication of Goals:
   Encouraging the leader to prioritize key initiatives allows team members to focus their efforts effectively without getting lost in the myriad of moving parts within the business.

3. Delegation and Empowerment:
   Ramsey emphasizes the importance of empowering employees by delegating tasks that align with the company's strategic objectives, thus freeing up leaders to focus on growth and innovation.

4. Resource Recommendation:
   He suggests the book "Rocket Fuel" as a resource to understand the dynamics between primary leaders and their second-in-command, highlighting the significance of having a strong right-hand person ([25:46]).

Notable Quote:
"Just work on what you want me working on." – Dave Ramsey ([24:49])

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Caller 3: Brian from Miami – Deciding Between Selling or Moving a Remote Business

Timestamp: [29:37]

Background:
Brian, the owner of a Miami-based fishing products brand generating $1.3 million with seven employees, faces a dilemma: whether to sell his business or relocate it closer to home. The decision stems from operating the business remotely following a family move during the COVID-19 pandemic, which has hindered growth and operational efficiency.

Dave Ramsey’s Guidance:

1. Evaluate Business Operations:
   Ramsey questions the necessity of keeping the business remote, especially when the core distribution remains brick-and-mortar despite the owner’s remote status. He points out that both online and retail distribution can be managed from a coastal location without disrupting the business model ([33:03]).

2. Employee Considerations:
   Addressing Brian’s concern about his employees, Ramsey notes that protecting jobs by relocating isn't a valid reason to maintain a struggling business ([35:12]). He emphasizes that employee turnover is natural and that offering severance or relocation assistance is a more pragmatic approach.

3. Hands-On Involvement:
   Ramsey advises Brian to re-engage directly with the business by relocating. This hands-on approach ensures that Brian is fully immersed in operations, reducing the risk of mismanagement and fostering better decision-making ([36:34]).

4. Clear Timelines and Communication:
   Establishing a clear timeline for relocation and communicating it effectively with the team helps set expectations and prepares everyone for the transition ([36:38]).

5. Empowerment and Responsibility:
   Ramsey encourages Brian to take ownership of the business's future, highlighting that moving the business is a proactive step towards revitalization rather than merely selling it out of convenience ([35:10]).

Notable Quote:
"Move it. Just because the only thing keeping you from moving it is not that you, the only reason you would sell it is so those four people kept their job. That's a dumb reason." – Dave Ramsey ([35:12])

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey underscores the importance of making informed, fact-based decisions in times of business difficulty. Whether facing financial downturns that necessitate layoffs or grappling with strategic growth challenges, Ramsey provides clear, actionable advice aimed at sustaining and revitalizing businesses. His emphasis on transparency, strategic planning, and proactive leadership serves as a valuable guide for entrepreneurs navigating uncertain economic landscapes.

Final Takeaway:
"Better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high-quality leaders, so take courage and lead." – Dave Ramsey ([37:41])

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For more insights and real-time business coaching, visit EntreLeadership Podcast.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entre leadership podcast where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. With over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. I was doing this stuff today. If you got a question you want to ask on the show, fill out the form on entreeleadership.com ask or call and leave us a voicemail at 8449-4410-7084-4944. 1070 Brian is with us in Grand Rapids. Hey, Brian, how are you?

[Brian]

Hey, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve.

[Brian]

How are you, man?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same, sir. What's up?

[Brian]

Well, I run a consultant firm here and have about six employees. Last year we did about 2.5 million in revenue. And the problem that I'm running into right now, Dave, is that since fourth quarter last year, we've seen a significant dip in revenue due to economic factors. That's happening here in Michigan and suffered a pretty substantial loss in Q1 of this year. And I'm considering reducing my staff headcount. The problem is that I have an amazing team that's been with me for quite some time. They all buy into our mission. They're aligned with our vision. It took me a long time to get to this place and I'm hesitant to let anybody go because of how hard we work to get to where we're at with them. So I just need need your guidance on this one because I don't know how much longer we can sustain before I really have to start cutting even more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Ouch. So the thing is literally in the red.

[Brian]

You lost money, we lost money in Q1. We're down by about 50% already this year compared to last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much money did you lose in Q1? Actual dollars.

[Brian]

40 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you just had the cash to cover that, obviously.

[Brian]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what's Q2 trending on?

[Brian]

We're still going to be low. Probably in the red as well. Not as bad, I'd say. Probably you're going to lose another 10 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The. So what happens when we're facing something like this? It's a type of trauma. And I faced it myself. And, you know, we all faced it, like during COVID as an example. Right. How am I going to make payroll for 1100 people when entire divisions, departments in this company just evaporated like live events? We obviously weren't doing. Doing any. Right. That kind of thing. So how do we keep the People here, what do we do? We're all facing these decisions. And one of the things we learned during that exercise, which was more than just an exercise, it was an extremely stressful situation. Dr. John DeLoney talks about this all the time. He says when you're in trauma or when you're in a crisis scenario, the way to keep your thinking clear is to say facts are my friends. Because what happens is we all have a drama queen between our ears and it wakes up and goes into a full Broadway show and it makes everything feel worse at 2 o' clock in the morning than it actually is. Does that make any sense to you? Does that sound familiar?

[Brian]

That's pretty darn accurate, I think. I wake up at 2am every day.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go. And so, yeah, and it's like. And things are really dramatically better than reality or dramatically worse than reality. And the key word here is dramatically. We're drama queens, all of us. And so when you're in a high stress scenario, a threat is coming at you. Our brains are designed to shut down thinking. If a lion is approaching to eat you, you. You don't need to have a discussion with yourself and do critical thoughts. You need to run. And so the prefrontal cortex is flooded with dopamine and other things and it shuts down critical thinking skills. And that's normal in a trauma thing. So you have to stop and rise above that as an intentional act and say, facts are my friends. Now, when I say facts are my friends, then what you're asking me about is, is it time to lay people off? Okay, why? What are the facts telling us about? Okay, we're burning 40k, we're not gonna burn as much next quarter. We can't keep burning money. There's an end to that. That's a fact. Right, but are we able to. Have you been able to make some corrections with the market and get revenues heading back in the right direction so that maybe Q3 you don't lose money? Because if I'm breaking even and making no profit on my way back to making the profit I used to make, I'm not laying people off. Would you?

[Brian]

No, I'll take break even all day right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, for a while. On my way back too. But not break even as a five year scenario, I'm not doing that one. But break even as a way back to where we were from. A $40,000 loss and the bottom of the valley would be Q1 of 2025. And by Q1 of 2026, we're profitable again. And heading back, you know, the lines are heading in the right direction. Again, if I can see my way that, then we don't end this. And I don't know your business well enough or your environment well enough. But, you know, can you see a way where this thing, you know, hangs on by the skin of your teeth until you finish turning it? Pull positive if you can, then it's not time to lay people off. But if you think this is a death spiral and this thing's going to settle out at 50% of its former revenue, then you're going to have to be at 50% of your former staff. So that's the. What we're doing here is forecasting with facts, not with drama. And I don't know that, but I, I like the trend, and you do, too, that I'm losing a little money, but less than the quarter before. And if I can think that that's probably true about Q3, that I lose a little less money than Q2, then this is, this is a downturn you can absorb without laying people off because you're headed back in the right direction. Does that make sense?

[Brian]

Makes total sense. I think there's still a lot of uncertainty for in Michigan on what it's going to look like.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not up to Michigan. It's up to Brian. There's always been uncertainty in Michigan. There's always been uncertainty in Tennessee. When you opened your business, there was uncertainty. And so, yeah, there's some outside variables that are playing havoc with you. But I'm not making my decision on the outside variables. I'm asking if I'm you, I'm looking in the mirror and saying, brian, can I, in this current environment turn this thing? If I come to believe that I cannot turn it, then yes, you have to lay people off. And that should be a result of factual analysis. But when you started the business, Brian, there were people standing on the sidelines telling you it couldn't be done. And it took several years for you to finally believe them. I'm telling you it maybe can be done, you know, and you know, but I'm not waiting on Trump to take on your stupid governor. And I'm not waiting on any of that kind of crap to bail you out. You're gonna be the answer to your. You're the secret sauce on your sandwich. And so I'm trying. And so you've got to sit down with your top two people and say, in order to not lay people off, we have to come to believe that we're trending back up. We what has to be true for us to believe that with facts, not with wishful thinking, or are we going to come to believe that the environment is so tough we can't exist anymore? And if that's the case, then you just, you know, you're going to have to own it and let people go. So I don't know the answer to the equation, but necessary endings come according to Henry Cloud in his book Necessary Endings. When you have lost hope that you are. That you're. That you see a way forward. I no longer see a way forward. And I'm not there yet in this discussion because I can tell that you are making. You're losing less money in Q2 than Q1. You did not continue down. You did something to stabilize. You brought the nose of the plane up before it hit the ground. And so what did you do to stabilize and can you do some more of that? That's the. In the current environment that you're in, I don't know any other way to do it. So, yeah, that's where I would land on it. But if you come to believe that it's going to continue to go down, it will be irresponsible to the people you're going to keep to not let the people go that need to go. They're the first ones out the door. And, you know, so the way we lined that up at Covid was we said, okay, we have a certain amount of cash. We told our team this, by the way. We have a certain amount of cash, we don't have any debts. If we start actually losing money and burning the cash, the first thing is we're going to burn the cash down to a certain level. The second thing is leadership will stop taking pay. And the third thing is we're going to hold your pay. And then if that's not working, then we're gonna let you go. But we're not going into debt and we're not gonna do any of that. So anyway, and we just told them. That's exactly. The good news was at Ramsey, we were able to bring the nose of the plane up even though it was heading down before it got in the red, before we were actually losing money. So we never even got to the burn the cash part, much less leadership not taking pay. But I was willing to not take pay rather than let people go, just like you, Brian, and our leadership team. And that makes it easier to not lose money. Right. And so we can keep the nose of the plane heading up into the sky. But if the environment with the shutdowns and all the bull crap stuff we all went through was going to keep us from doing business. Then you know, people are going to end up losing their jobs at the end of the story. But we told everybody that. We said, you're going to have plenty of notice because we're going to tell you everything that's going on. And this month we lost, not lose money. We made less than we thought we were going to make. But we did not lose money this month. We did not lose money this month. We did not lose money. And every time I say that, you get to keep your job a month longer. And so, and we kept telling everybody that, so everybody knew what we were facing. And I think you start telling your team that and, and tell them what your plan is and go, we got to get this revenue back up. And if we don't get it back up, there's no, Santa Claus doesn't live here. You know, we can't, we cannot keep paying you guys. And that's a mathematical fact and that's what you're getting into. So you're a good man. You're a good man for fretting over this. You're a good man for wanting to protect your people. You're wise for all of those things. So, wow.

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[Dave Ramsey]

ENTRE Leadership Master Series is already over 90% sold out. Yeah, even more than that. So if you want to join us this October 19 through 24 or you're running late, it's time to act. Just a tiny window here for you Master series is a five day business conference where my leadership team walks you through the exact tactics we use to grow Ramsey to a $300 million company. You'll leave with a custom plan to grow your business. So to join us in Frisco, Texas this October at the wonderful Omni resort, go to entreeleadership.com masterseries or click the link in the show notes. If you're listening on YouTube podcast, AJ is in Minneapolis. Hi AJ, how are you?

[Brian]

Good. Hi, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Brian]

Say I'm a manager for an engineering company where I oversee about 10 staff. Half of my staff are union, half are non union. So my question is, how should I approach conversations regarding wage differences between, you know, the union versus non union members?

[Dave Ramsey]

They're doing the same job.

[Brian]

They are not doing the same job. The union is more of like the field crews and the non union is more of the project management type.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's not the union that's causing the issue. The issue is they do different jobs. I mean, if I've got someone that's, if I've got someone here that is a salesman and it brings in $20 million in ad revenues or $5 million in ad revenues, he or she is different than someone who's an entry level accounting person. It's apples to oranges. They should not even be on the same. I mean, it doesn't matter if they're union or not. It's just they get paid different because they do different jobs.

[Brian]

I guess maybe the historical is that the, the non union at one point were at a higher rate than the union and that is now flipped. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter though. They do different jobs.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, there was a time that, I don't know, somebody in this place made more than some and that flipped because of the changes in technology. That could be the same thing here. So I mean, like, give me an example of an office staff who used to make more than union. That doesn't now.

[Brian]

My project managers, they are now less than my field engineers and they're managing the field engineers. They kind of are like distributing workload to them. Whereas the project managers receive the projects in and then they will assign a field engineer to their project.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the field engineers are union.

[Brian]

They are. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really? What industry is this?

[Brian]

Yeah, it's electric industry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Oh, okay. Electrical engineer. Okay.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Huh. And.

[Brian]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, it's an interesting. Yeah, it's just. Okay, if you were out, I'm looking at. I can look at either one of these people and say if you didn't have a job right now and you came over here to apply for a job, you would apply for a project manager or you would apply for a union field engineer. And a project manager pays this, and if a union field engineer pays that, and you just, you know, are you qualified for the one that pays more? If you are, you probably would do that one, unless you just don't like that type of work. And so. But basically what you're telling me is the marketplace is flipped, so your competitor is facing exactly the same thing. So your project manager can't jump to a competitor and make double. A.J.

[Brian]

No, no, no, no. So the vice versa is that the field engineer can't go anywhere near what they're getting paid if they went to.

[Dave Ramsey]

A non union shop.

[Brian]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're, they're, they're stuck. But that's the union deal. That has nothing to do with that. Okay, Is there a. Okay, so if a. And there's. So there are electrical engineers in your area that are non union.

[Brian]

Correct? Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hmm. So why are you union and paying more?

[Brian]

I guess I don't know the history on how it started, but that's, I guess, where we're at now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know the legalities of that. I'm not trying to bust a union, but I'm just thinking from a business perspective. Why am I paying more if I can wave a wand and not be union and pay less, and that's what my competitor's doing. I'm probably wanting to do that for other reasons other than your call. Just because I don't want to overpay. You know, I don't have, from a profit motive perspective, I don't have any loyalty to the word union. I'm not mad about it, and I'm not trying to bust something here, but, you know, anyway, that's a side issue, I guess. So your question is, how do I talk to my team about the pay differences? Look, that position pays this, this position pays that. The positions just pay different. It's not a personal thing, and I didn't do it, and the company didn't do it. It's what the marketplace pays. Union electrical engineers make this, and we have union electrical engineers. Project managers make this, and this is what you make. And I don't think they have a gripe. I don't Know why they would go, oh, that's not fair. Because it's just, it's what you make. You can't go somewhere else and make different.

[Brian]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, if you were underpaying your project managers, that'd be a discussion to have. But the reason you're underpaying him is not what the field engineer, union field engineers are working. The reason you'd be underpaying him is what the competitors pay in that position.

[Brian]

Right. And I think generally we're, we're over market in both positions.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you got no gripe. You chose project manager. You know, this is what you chose. I mean, if you choose to be a, I don't know, pick a, pick a job in the marketplace that makes more than another job. You chose that direction. You could have gone the other direction, hypothetically, you know, you chose to be. But, you know, it's like the old joke of the plump. The lawyer calls a plumber and the plumber comes in and in 30 seconds he fixes the thing and the guy goes, he says, that'd be $250. And he goes, $250? You're here for 30 seconds. I'm a lawyer. I don't make that. And the plumber says, I didn't make that either when I was a lawyer. I mean, that's the kind of thing you're looking at. It's like, so, you know, what in the world. So, you know, you make what you make for that role, and that's what the marketplace is bearing. And so I, I don't know why anybody, I don't have to, I don't have to explain that to somebody. And if I do, there's other issues with that person of maturity and other things going on. So, you know, that's all I can help. I don't feel like I've been much help there, but, oh, well, it's my best shot. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're glad you're here. If you want to help us out, we could use some help in a lot of ways, but you could help us this way. Please click the Follow button, the subscribe button. Leave a nice 5 star review. Share this show. Tell people about it. Ask them to join us right here on this podcast and you can tell them what's going on. And gosh, if you want to be a caller here, just dial the number at 8449-4410-7084-4944. 1070. Jake is with us in Springfield. Hey, Jake, what's up? In your world.

[Brian]

Hey, Dave.

[Jake]

I work with a remodel construction company. We did about $2 million last year in gross revenue and we've got three full time employees, which I am one of. And my boss last year went to Nashville to one of your leadership conferences, your entre leadership conferences. Came back and he was just really excited about it and shared a lot of it with me. My question is, how can I support him through this? Having not been to the conference, having a lot of personal investment in this company, how can I support him as he's trying to grow as a leader?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great question. Well, one of the things he probably came up with when he was with us was I've got, maybe I'll just make up a number. He may have said, I got 10 things I want to work on based on what I learned.

[Jake]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the first thing I'm going to work on is this. The second thing is this. The third force ranked them the third thing I'm going to work on. So I'm not going to work on all 10 at once. And you know, if he did do that, then you could simply ask and say, all right, what are you working on and how can I help? And I want to help you get there and explain to me, teach me the concept that you learned and so I can come alongside you and not be wondering what the flip you're doing. I'll be instead helping to push the, you know, push the car up out of the ditch. Let's get it going. And so do you have any examples of what you think he's working on from what he learned?

[Jake]

I mean, we've gone through a lot of it since. I don't remember if it was October, November, September last year, but we sat down and we had an off site. We had our first off site meeting together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Jake]

Talking about strategy for this, this, this year, which is great. I feel like we, we set a lot of good goals, that kind of thing. And now we're in the nitty gritty. We're super busy and which is great, that's a good thing. But I feel like the conversation has fallen off and we've moved into more of the day to day, week to week stuff. So maybe it's just time to revisit some of those things we talked about.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would ask if you could have a 30 minute bi weekly meeting for him to tell you what your part, what you need to be working on to help hit the strategy and the goals that came out of the strategy.

[Brian]

Right.

[Jake]

And we've started doing a weekly scheduling meeting, which has been great and that keeps us on track for lots of different things.

[Dave Ramsey]

But yeah, just what, you know, we laid out this grand scheme and the grand scheme has 47 moving parts. What, you know, what do I, what, what do I need to push on the 47 things to help you get the grand scheme? And in other words, I want to be, I don't want to be working on the wrong thing. I want you working, I want to be working on what you want me working on.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just, just get, just get clarity in your, and you. 5 minutes, 10 minutes in your weekly scheduling meeting will do that. And just go, okay, remember the strategy. And the strategy gave us these goals. And the goals, when you're looking at that, that's a desired future. And then you say what must be true, that's not true now in order for us to hit that goal. And so which of those things that aren't true that we're trying to make true, do you want me to help with? Okay, that's a very good question. And by the way, you're a prize. I'm glad he's got you.

[Jake]

Well, he's good to me and my family, so he deserves it too. Have you ever trained a leader and they've come to you two years, five years, 10 years later and said, man, once I found someone that was willing to do this, things really started happening.

[Dave Ramsey]

It usually had to do with, if you're finding someone, it usually had to do with a specific discipline or skill set. And you know, like, you know, you reach a point in size where you need a really good accounting person and that frees you up to go do business. Cause you're not screwed with the accounting. You reach a point in size where someone's handling all the day to day scheduling. And since you don't have to mess with that, you can work on strategy and you can work on moving new, bigger clients in and that kind of thing. And so what you're doing is you're offloading areas of the business, disciplines within the business to someone. And in each time you do that, it frees the leader, the owner up to go to the next level on the things you're working on. And you take a $2 million business, make it a four or five or $10 million business, right? And so, but there's not a certain singular position. It would be more unique to each company. In my case it was, you know, when I brought in people that could. The first guy I hired, I was doing financial counseling and he was a Financial counselor. So I wasn't having to do one on one coaching across a round table in a conference room with couples that were hurting. Instead, I'm over here working on the business and he was over there doing the counseling. And so, you know, somebody did the work that I was doing, so I was freed up and. But that was the very first hire that I ever did. His name was Russ Carroll and he stayed here so long he retired from here. He's a wonderful friend to this day. But it's someone does some of the work that you were having to do that allows you to do bigger thinking work and bigger idea work. And so I reached a point several years ago where I felt like God told me I was only to work on things that were big, big or broken, things that were big or broken or brand new. I can help with some of those things, but things that were operating that weren't broken and that weren't huge. I need to let the guys running them, run them. And I need to work on big, broken, new. And I've spent most of my life working on the big things around here, the broken things and the new things around here to make sure they all get up and move. And so that's the case here. And that may or may not be the case there, Jake, but you know, you're asking really, really world class questions. Yeah, dude's got him a world class right hand man there. You know, I recommend a book to you. It's called Rocket Fuel. You ought to look at that one, Jake. It talks about the number one, the number, how key a number two man can be or number two woman behind a number one. Pick up the book Rocket Fuel and you and your leader read it. Because at the stage you guys are at, it might be helpful for you. Entree leadership master series is over 90% sold out. So if you wait any longer to get your tickets, you're gonna miss it. At this five day tactical business conference, my executive team, my leadership team will walk you through the strategies we used to grow Ramsey into a 300 million dollar company. You'll leave with a custom plan to grow your business and lead your team to join us this October 19 through 24 in Frisco, Texas. Go to entreeleadership.com masterseries or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're glad you're here. The phone number is 844-944-1070. This is the Entree leadership podcast. I am Your host, Dave Ramsey will is in Miami, Florida. How are you?

[Brian]

I'm doing well, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Brian]

So I'm the owner operator of a fishing products brand that grosses 1.3 million with seven employees. I'm wondering if I should sell or move my business.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're an owner of a what?

[Brian]

A fishing products brand?

[Dave Ramsey]

Fishing products. Products like. Like lures or rods and reels or fishing lines, that kind of thing. I'm sorry.

[Brian]

Yes, sir. Any. Yes, sir. Anything that catches fish.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got you. Okay, cool. And you're in Miami. Okay. Why are we considering these two options? What's wrong with just doing what you're doing?

[Brian]

So to give you some context, I made the decision to move my family about two and a half years ago during COVID I moved it about two and a half hours away from the business. Essentially, I've been operating the business remotely, and I've come to the realization over the last few years that I really can't take the business from the pathfinder stage that we're in into the trailblazer stage. So it's kind of a unique situation. I don't know. Too many people have done exactly what I've done. So I'm just trying to figure out, do I sell it or do I. Do I try to move the business?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Brian]

I.

[Dave Ramsey]

I ran into some guys that do millions of dollars of freshwater lures and a year, and they are in an interior state, but they're freshwater guys primarily. I think they probably have some saltwater product. I'm guessing if you started in Miami, your stuff might be primarily salt water.

[Brian]

That's correct. Yeah. We do a little bit of fresh water as well, but primarily focused on salt water.

[Dave Ramsey]

What I'm noodling is because these guys were in a state that had nothing to do with the ocean, but. And really, you know, they're selling stuff to. You know, every bait shop in America is buying their stuff right. On every lake around anywhere. Is it necessary that this business is on the coast?

[Brian]

No, not necessarily. It definitely does not have to be on the coast. I think that there's some benefits of it being on the coast, just like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Testing stuff or whatever.

[Brian]

Yeah, absolutely. For. For testing products and, you know, to get the right type of culture. You know, it's kind of a unique industry. It's a little bit of a smaller industry that we're in. So you really want to get people in, at least that I've found that, you know, have a general interest in saltwater fishing. So the further interior go, the harder would be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so you, if you did move it, you would move it close to home.

[Brian]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is that going to be too far interior with the discussion we're having?

[Brian]

No, no, it's still, we're still near the coast. It's definitely a smaller area. There's not, you know, quite as much industry going on where we're at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you're not just selling this stuff local, are you?

[Brian]

No, no. So we're, we're. I'd say more regional. Southeast United States, from Texas up to Virginia.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're doing. If you're doing a million three, you said, right, Correct.

[Brian]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I mean, you're probably doing a large portion of it online or distribution through some kind of retailers, right?

[Brian]

Correct. Yeah. We have a good, A good mix between selling to wholesale or selling wholesale to resale retail accounts and also selling online. It's about 60, 40.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. I'm not in the focus group. I'm. I don't hate fishermen or fishing. I just don't do much of it. So I can't. I'm trying to think what I can relate it to that I would be trying to put my. Put the customer shoes on. I don't know why this is not 90% online.

[Brian]

I think mainly because the fishing industry still is pretty heavily brick and mortar. And earlier on the early on in the business, we made a decision to work with mom and pop retail shops. And we really try to honor them and those relationships as best as possible. So while there is a huge opportunity online, we just have those good lasting relationships with shops. And so we've tried about you move.

[Dave Ramsey]

It to where you are though. You've still got to run those mom and pop distribution strategy from where you are or you've got to run it from Miami. So there's no downside to moving it.

[Brian]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

In terms of it doesn't destroy the business model. Cause it's either gonna be online or mom and pop distribution. And you're fine with that. And you just gotta get more mom and pops to go from a million three to two million six, right? To double.

[Brian]

Yep, that's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can do that from hometown. So why would you not just move it? Why are you thinking of selling it instead?

[Brian]

So I have some really good employees in place. When I made the decision to leave the business, you know, that was my decision. I didn't really have the idea in mind of bringing the business with the team was operating well. How many and total we have seven employees. Four full time, three part time.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have four employees. You're not going to not move a business for a part timer.

[Brian]

Right. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we're talking about four people.

[Brian]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you, are you sick of this business?

[Brian]

I'm sick of working remotely right now. And that's, you know, coming last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you need to move it.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you need to be kind financially to the four people that if any of them don't want to come, if any of them don't want to move, you can be kind to them financially. And. But they're. It's not. Let me tell you, they'll quit the minute that they see a better job anyway. Even though. And not because they're. But just because it's human nature. I mean, if somebody comes along, offers them double, they're going to go work for somebody else. And so, you know, that's not, that's all. That's the way life is. And that's okay. They should actually. That's not. You would want that for them if they can make double. And so.

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I had a guy leave a few weeks ago that he was making almost double and I'm like, you know, let me help you pack. Oh my gosh. And so, you know, the. Yeah, move it. And just because the only thing keeping you from moving it is not that you, the only reason you would sell it is so those four people kept their job. That's a dumb reason. No, don't do that.

[Brian]

Yeah. With that said, you know, what do you think is the, the best process? You know, I am removed from the business, so I'm a little bit hesitant. Just, you know, give them a lot of time just because I'm not close to the operation. You know, I do go up once a month or so, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're going to have to get your hands dirty again and get ready for the move.

[Brian]

Absolutely. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So get, get your butt in the car and get back down there.

[Brian]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And get, get, get, you know, get up, get up to your elbows in it again. So that if, if they all walk out on you, you're not dead, dead in the water right now. You don't even know what the flip's going on. And so, and you know what I would tell them is I'm here. And then after a week of you being there, you ought to be re acclimated to almost everything. And then in the second week say, the reason I'm doing this and getting re acclimated is we're talking about Moving it. And here's our timeline for moving it. And I'll pay your moving expenses if you want to come. Or I'll give you some severance if you don't want to come and help me finish this thing up. And in 90 days, we're gonna move it or whatever the timeline is and go ahead and tell them the timeline. Once you. Once you've gotten back in the saddle, but you're vulnerable until you're back in the saddle, is what you're saying.

[Brian]

Yeah, that's definitely what it feels like, for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, let's get. Let's get back in the saddle. In and. Cause you gotta do that anyway. When you move it, you're gonna be back to work. You're working two days a week. Crap's over. You're getting ready to run a business again. Yeah, you're getting ready to run a business again because it's gonna be in your backyard and going to work every morning.

[Brian]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that at all. That's not a sin. And if you look up, you say, I don't want to do any of that. I'd rather just have the money and sell it. Then sell it. I don't care. You don't have to. But I didn't hear any reason to sell this business. And it's not healthy the way it is, because you're not giving. You're not rocking your own baby enough. Other people are rocking your baby. And so it's not gonna grow. It's not gonna be everything it should be. It's, you know, with you working remote and for good guys, even though they're good guys, they're not ever gonna take it to where you would take it to. And so you either need to sell it or move it. I agree with that. Because it's not. It's because it's not being maximized. It's not being. It's not. It's not gonna hit the level of excellence that you want to hit. I really like where you are, though. It's a cool discussion. And the good news is you were good enough and are good enough at this business that it gives you choices of what you want to do. But if you decide, I just don't want to be in this business anymore and I want to sell it for that reason, then that's an okay reason. But to protect four employees that might leave anyway? No, I'm not going to do that. That's not. I'll protect them other ways. I'll take good care of them if they move or if they don't move. That'll be the be the plan. All right, folks. Hey, remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree leadership podcast.