The EntreLeadership Podcast: “Over 100 Years of Leadership Advice in 97 Minutes”
Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network (Dave Ramsey)
Guests: John Maxwell, Patrick Lencioni, Ken Coleman (moderator)
Main Theme: A masterclass in leadership featuring candid discussions from three of the most respected voices in leadership. Topics range from building trust, organizational health, motives, communication, promoting leaders, groundedness, faith, failure, and more—sprinkled with humor, authenticity, and practical stories.
Episode Overview
This unique episode brings together Dave Ramsey, John Maxwell, and Patrick Lencioni—each with decades of leadership and coaching experience—for an unscripted, in-depth roundtable. Drawing on their collective wisdom, they reflect on the timeless and emerging challenges of leadership, sharing practical principles, memorable stories, and actionable advice. Ken Coleman moderates, guiding the discussion through communication, promotion, trust, vulnerability, and faith.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Why Love of Work Drives Wealth
[02:23] Ken Coleman introduces Ramsey Solutions’ study showing millionaires who love their work have 58% higher net worth.
- Dave Ramsey [02:54]: “It’s hard to be good at something that you hate.”
- John Maxwell [02:58]: “No one ever quit doing something they’re good at. … The passion is in loving your work.”
- Patrick Lencioni [04:19]: “Calluses are fine when you’re doing what you… You want to get calluses doing the thing that you like. It doesn’t feel like a punishment. It feels like a trophy.”
Key Insight: Passion drives creativity, persistence, and success. But, as Maxwell warns, “Do what you love” must be grounded in actual talent—make your hobby your vocation only if you’re truly skilled.
2. The Danger of Misplaced Promotions
[07:11] Discussion shifts to promoting high performers into leadership roles—often without regard for their desire or skill to actually lead.
- John Maxwell [07:40]: “It’s like taking the best salesman on the lot and making him a manager of sales. … He doesn’t manage well, he just sells.”
- Dave Ramsey [08:14]: “We confuse the fact that they’re good at sales… That makes them good at leading. It’s two different skillsets.”
- Patrick Lencioni [13:43]: Shares about Russ Carroll, who declined a leadership role: “That would be leukemia to my spirit.”
Key Insight: Desire and aptitude for leadership are separate from technical skills. Promotion should match the person’s intrinsic motives (“large and in charge” vs. serving others) and be confirmed by their ability to develop others, not just excel individually.
3. How to Assess (and Develop) New Leaders
[10:07] On practical steps for assessing a high performer’s true potential as a leader.
- John Maxwell [10:07]: “Never promoted a person until they had trained their replacement. … Work yourself out of a job, I’ll give you another one.”
- Patrick Lencioni [11:21]: “I would go find out what their motive for wanting to be that leader is.”
- Dave Ramsey [11:36]: “Am I wanting to be large and in charge or am I wanting to serve?”
Key Insight: Promotion should reward those who can “reproduce themselves”—train and mentor others. Motive matters: Service-based leadership is authentic; positional or self-centered leadership fails over time.
4. Honest Self-Knowledge and Managing for Uniqueness
[15:01] Lencioni reflects on his own mistakes promoting others based on what he would like, not what the person wants or needs.
- Patrick Lencioni [15:01]: “You need to manage…promote people based on who they are, not who we would be if we were in their situation.”
Key Insight: Leaders must avoid projecting their preferences or career trajectory onto others.
5. Motive: The Foundation for Real Leadership
[17:20] What is the mandatory motive for leading?
- John Maxwell [17:22]: “Leadership is either the nicest thing that ever happens to a group of people or… the worst… You have to have leadership skills… but I think also good values.”
- Maxwell on the true test [19:14]: “If I see more than you and I see before you, I can win. Now the question is, when I know I can win, what am I gonna do with that? Am I gonna make a decision to win for you, or…for me?”
Key Insight: Servant leadership—motivated by advancing others, not personal gain—is indispensable. “The irony is the best way for you to win is to cause them to win.” (Dave Ramsey [19:52])
6. The Reality of Suffering and Sacrifice in Leadership
[20:40]
- Patrick Lencioni: “If you’re not willing to suffer more for the benefit of those other people… there are moments in every leader, lots of them, where you’re like, this stinks. But it’s for them…”
- John Maxwell [21:18]: “There are no two good consecutive days in a leader’s life.”
Key Insight: Leadership is not about comfort; it demands personal sacrifice for the benefit of others.
7. Building Trust in an Age of Distrust
[23:24] On trust in teams and organizations.
- Patrick Lencioni: “They need to know that you’re most interested in their benefit. … Go to good organizations… people trust leadership there.”
- Dave Ramsey [24:44]: “Proof has to be in the pudding… you’re gonna put their best interest at heart when you’re making a decision, whether or not they understand it at the moment.”
John Maxwell’s “Three Questions Followers Ask Leaders”
[27:48]:
- Do you like me?
- Can you help me?
- Can I trust you? (“The last one comes last. But it’s the deepest of all leadership.”)
Key Insight: Trust is earned over time, never instant. Without liking and competence, trust cannot grow.
8. Communication: Do’s and Don’ts for Leaders
[34:40]
John Maxwell:
- Don’t communicate aspirations that stretch people outside their talent.
- “One of the things leaders understand is…their limits and their people's limits…”
- Best Message vs. Big Message [45:44]: “Your best message is the message at that moment… your big message is who you are.”
Patrick Lencioni [38:15]: “Don’t affirm somebody in something that’s not good for them.”
Dave Ramsey:
- “To be unclear is to be unkind.” [40:09]
- Don’t communicate in anger; wait out strong emotion.
Key practicals:
- Ask questions out of curiosity, not manipulation.
- Anticipate objections—empathize and make it safe to share concerns. ([44:41])
9. Keeping Leaders Grounded: Family, Faith, and Humility
[62:51 / 65:20]
- Patrick Lencioni: “No leader can make their leadership more important than [faith, marriage, family]. … I used to come home…these people don’t care if I just gave a speech… and that is such a good thing.”
- John Maxwell: “My personal definition of success is very simple. Those who know me the best love and respect me the most.” ([66:06])
- Dave Ramsey: “I have the benefit of having become wealthy in my 20s and losing everything I own… Meeting God on the way up, getting to know him on the way down. … I just don’t care what you think.” ([67:57])
Key Insight: True groundedness comes when identity is detached from public accolades and rooted in relationships and faith.
10. Failure, Growth, and Resilience
[74:32]
- Patrick Lencioni: “I live my life to avoid failure, which is a bad way to live. You want to live for love of something, not from fear of something.”
- John Maxwell: “You can go from failure to success, but you can’t go from excuses to success. You can’t do it.” ([82:46])
- Dave Ramsey: “I want people failing regularly because it creates progress… You want failures, but you want non-fatal failures.” ([80:31])
Key Insight: All significant personal growth involves failure, but failure must lead to learning, adjustment—not excuse-making or self-protection.
11. Faith As the Foundation
[85:03]
- Patrick Lencioni: “He is everything.”
- John Maxwell: “If I could only do one thing in life, I would share my faith… My first responsibility in sharing my faith is to add value to people so that I connect with them.”
- Dave Ramsey: “I’m just that stinking grateful. I’m just that in awe of. He could take that hillbilly kid and do the stuff he’s done.”
Key Insight: Their deep faith isn’t compartmentalized but fully integrated into their leadership, providing hope, peace, and an unshakable foundation.
Notable Moments & Quotes
- John Maxwell [05:42]: (On “do what you love”) “I love, I’m passionate about golf… but I’m not any good at it. If you love something you’re not good at, don’t make it a career. Make it a hobby.”
- Patrick Lencioni [13:43]: (On role fit) “That would be leukemia to my spirit.”
- Dave Ramsey [40:18]: “To be unclear is to be unkind.”
- John Maxwell [21:18]: “There are no two good consecutive days in a leader’s life.”
- Maxwell [27:48]: (Followers’ questions) “Do you like me? Can you help me? Can I trust you?”
- Pat Lencioni [91:29]: (On faith communities) “I don’t think most Christians are not like that. I think most Christians agree with you. … Sometimes we can too easily go, well, most Christians are not good at this. … I just want to say… I don’t think it rings true.”
- Maxwell [82:46]: “You can go from failure to success, but you can’t go from excuses to success.”
- Dave Ramsey [96:58]: “Only God. … I’m just that in awe… that he could take that hillbilly kid and do the stuff he’s done.”
Highlighted Segments & Timestamps
- The Three Essential Follower Questions ([01:16], [27:48])
- Wealth & Loving Your Work ([02:23]-[03:35])
- The “Peter Principle” Problem ([07:11]-[08:26])
- How to Assess Leader Motive ([10:07]-[12:41])
- The Pain & Sacrifice of Leadership ([20:40]-[22:46])
- Building Trust in Distrusting Times ([23:24]-[29:41])
- Communication Do’s & Don’ts ([34:40]-[43:49])
- Groundedness & Definition of Success ([65:20]-[67:21])
- The Faith Foundation ([85:03]-[96:58])
- Failure & Failing Forward ([74:32]-[84:18])
Final Takeaways & Tone
Throughout the conversation, the trio model vulnerability (“I live my life to avoid failure…”), humor (“If you read comments after stuff, you know why some species eat their young…”), and mutual respect—often playfully poking at one another’s personalities. Their approach is honest, unvarnished, and rooted in deep conviction:
“The irony is that the best way for you to win is to cause them to win.”
—Dave Ramsey ([19:52])
“Trust is the greatest relationship that a leader can have with his people. But it’s the last relationship you get—it’s not the first.”
—John Maxwell ([32:51])
“He is everything.”
—Patrick Lencioni ([85:48])
For Listeners
This episode is not just a highlight reel of leadership principles but a behind-the-scenes look at how three world-class leaders think, grow, and lead with humility, candor, and faith. Whether you’re running a business, leading a team, or guiding a family, these insights offer enduring wisdom for every stage of your leadership journey.