Should I Try to Save Our Failing Family Business?

Summary

Episode Summary: "Should I Try to Save Our Failing Family Business?"
Release Date: June 16, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey, Ramsey Network

In this insightful episode of The EntreLeadership Podcast, Dave Ramsey tackles pressing business and leadership challenges faced by entrepreneurs. The episode features three main segments, each addressing critical aspects of running and sustaining a business. Here’s a detailed summary capturing all key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions.

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1. Navigating Family Business Challenges

Caller: David from Rochester, Maryland
Topic: Deciding Whether to Continue or Exit a Struggling Family Business
Timestamp: [00:57 – 10:46]

Background: David, a 28-year-old operations manager in his family’s concrete and asphalt business, is contemplating whether to continue working in the business or move on. Approaching his 10-year mark with the company, David expresses concerns over declining revenues and disagreements with his father and brother, who co-own the business.

Key Points:

• Business Decline: David shares that the business experienced a significant revenue drop, being nearly $1 million less last year compared to the previous year, primarily due to economic downturns and questionable decisions made by his father and brother ([02:06] - [02:35]).

• Role and Authority: Despite holding the title of operations manager, David feels his role is more akin to a foreman with limited decision-making power. This lack of authority contributes to his frustration and doubts about the business’s future ([03:30] - [04:04]).

• Relationship Dynamics: David loves and respects his family members but struggles with their managerial decisions, making him question his ability to influence positive changes ([03:07] - [04:04]).

Dave’s Advice: Dave Ramsey emphasizes the importance of having a seat at the decision-making table. He suggests forming a mini board with his father and brother to collaboratively steer the business toward profitability. If David’s involvement doesn’t lead to meaningful changes, Dave encourages him to consider moving on, assuring him that leaving is not a sign of disrespect but a pragmatic decision based on business viability ([04:04] - [10:46]).

Notable Quotes:

• David: "I want to own something that is truly my own." ([02:02])
• Dave Ramsey: "The good of the whole outweighs the good of the one." ([09:50])

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2. Managing Extended Employee Absences in Small Businesses

Caller: Kevin from Little Rock, Arkansas
Topic: Handling Multiple Extended Employee Absences
Timestamp: [12:03 – 21:28]

Background: Kevin owns an independent specialty retail store and a race timing business, generating approximately $700,000 annually with nine employees. He’s grappling with multiple extended employee absences due to health issues, which are severely impacting his small business operations.

Key Points:

• Extended Absences: Kevin describes a pattern of employees taking extended leaves for health reasons, making it difficult to maintain business continuity ([13:02] - [14:17]).

• Financial Strain: As a small business, Kevin struggles to absorb the financial strain caused by unpaid leaves, leading to operational inefficiencies and frustration ([14:17] - [16:45]).

• Current Policies: Kevin currently offers three weeks of paid time off (PTO), followed by unpaid leave. However, with multiple employees exceeding their PTO, the business is strained ([17:10] - [17:29]).

Dave’s Advice: Dave advises Kevin to establish clear boundaries by setting a strict limit on unpaid leave, typically not exceeding one additional month after PTO is exhausted. He emphasizes the necessity of prioritizing the business’s sustainability over extended personal accommodations, encouraging Kevin to communicate these limits compassionately but firmly to his team ([14:17] - [21:28]).

Notable Quotes:

• Kevin: "It'd be one thing if it were one person, but it’s multiple." ([13:43])
• Dave Ramsey: "My grace can only go as far as the math allows it." ([15:49])

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3. The Role of Personality Assessments in Leadership

Segment: Dave Ramsey’s Deep Dive into DISC Personality Assessments
Timestamp: [22:53 – 36:09]

Overview: Dave shifts gears to discuss the importance of understanding team members' personalities to enhance leadership and team dynamics. He delves into the DISC assessment, explaining its four personality types—Dominant (D), Interactive (I), Stabilizing (S), and Cautious (C)—and their implications in a business setting.

Key Points:

• DISC Framework: Dave breaks down each personality type, highlighting their strengths and potential dysfunctions. For instance, D’s are decisive and task-oriented, I’s are sociable and people-oriented, S’s are loyal and supportive, and C’s are meticulous and data-driven ([22:53] – [36:09]).

• Team Dynamics: Understanding these personalities helps in assigning roles effectively, reducing conflict, and enhancing communication. Dave underscores the necessity of aligning tasks with individuals’ inherent strengths to build a cohesive and efficient team ([29:00] - [36:09]).

• Practical Application: He provides practical advice on utilizing DISC profiles for hiring, team building, and conflict resolution, emphasizing that while assessments aren’t perfect, they offer valuable insights into team management ([35:00] – [36:09]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: "If you're walking into someone's office and you see that they are a D or a C, you know they're going to be task-oriented." ([30:45])
• Dave Ramsey: "These assessments are not fix-alls, but they do give us general insights." ([35:10])

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4. Delegating Effectively in Business Operations

Caller: David from Austin, Texas
Topic: Becoming Comfortable with Delegating
Timestamp: [36:09 – 43:09]

Background: David and his wife own a small business specializing in material handling solutions for warehouses and distribution operations. With 10 employees and $15 million in revenue last year, David seeks advice on how to become more comfortable with delegating tasks he has traditionally handled himself.

Key Points:

• Delegation Challenges: David finds it difficult to delegate because he fears others may not uphold the same standards or values he does, impacting customer satisfaction and business quality ([36:34] - [36:46]).

• Building Trust: Dave emphasizes the importance of ensuring that team members possess both competency and integrity before delegating significant responsibilities. He advises thorough training, mentoring, and gradual handoff of tasks to build this trust ([37:00] - [38:30]).

• Systematizing Tasks: Breaking down complex tasks into manageable parts and teaching them systematically helps in effective delegation. Dave likens this to training someone to perform tasks with the precision of a professional quarterback throwing a football ([39:34] - [43:09]).

Dave’s Advice: Dave outlines a step-by-step approach to delegation:

1. Assess Competency and Integrity: Ensure team members can perform tasks effectively and align with the company’s values.
2. Systematize and Train: Break down tasks into smaller components and train employees thoroughly.
3. Gradual Handoff: Start by delegating simpler tasks and progressively increase responsibility as trust builds.
4. Monitor and Provide Feedback: Continuously oversee delegated tasks to ensure standards are met and provide constructive feedback ([37:00] - [43:09]).

Notable Quotes:

• David: "How do I become comfortable delegating jobs that I've done in the past?" ([36:34])
• Dave Ramsey: "Delegating, systematize it, and then you teach it, and then they prove to you that they did it." ([43:00])

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Key Takeaways

1. Assessing Business Viability: When facing consistent financial struggles in a family business, it’s crucial to evaluate whether staying aligns with both personal and business growth goals. Having a collaborative decision-making process can either rejuvenate the business or provide clarity for a strategic exit.

2. Managing Employee Absences: Small businesses must balance compassion with practicality. Setting clear policies on extended leaves ensures business sustainability while addressing employee needs within feasible limits.

3. Utilizing Personality Assessments: Understanding team members' DISC profiles can significantly enhance leadership effectiveness, improve team dynamics, and optimize role assignments based on individual strengths.

4. Effective Delegation: Building trust through training and gradually delegating responsibilities allows business owners to focus on strategic growth while ensuring quality and consistency in operations.

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Final Thoughts: Dave Ramsey provides actionable insights and empathetic guidance to help business leaders navigate complex challenges. Whether dealing with family business dynamics, managing employee absences, understanding team personalities, or mastering delegation, this episode serves as a valuable resource for entrepreneurs striving to lead effectively and sustain successful businesses.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entree leadership podcast, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you got a question you want to ask on the show, you can fill out the [e-mail] ask or call and leave us a note and we'll get back to you. Make you a caller on the show at 8449-4410-7084-4944, 1070. David starts us off in Rochester, Maryland. Hey, David. Welcome to the show.

[David]

How you doing, Dave?

[Caller]

Good to hear your voice.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too, sir. How can I help?

[Caller]

Yeah, So I am 28 years old, work in the family business. What we do is we do concrete and asphalt work in the city there, and I am coming up on 10 years here in about a couple of weeks working for the family business. And, you know, it has its ups and downs, but I guess more so my question is, is it time for me to move on, or is it time for me to continue on with the family business?

[Dave Ramsey]

So, okay, why. Why would you move on and why would you stay?

[Caller]

Well, why I would stay is it's kind of always been talked about becoming an owner, and the last few years, basically what I've been told is, you know, the business has been struggling to a point to where I would be obtaining a burden. And I've become to realize I want to be an owner. But now I'm starting to realize I'm like, do I want to own this, or do I want to own something that is truly my own?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's not making money.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's been a really rough last couple years, especially the last year with this weird dip we had in the economy. We felt it for sure on our end. We. We were probably just shy of about a million less in revenue last year than we were the year previous.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what is top line in the business? What's it make?

[Caller]

Top line last year was 2.2 or 2.3.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the year previous, your revenue went down 50%?

[Caller]

Just about. Yeah, we had a really rough year last year, and even, you know, my paycheck and, you know, my family's paychecks were definitely hurting from it. And I. Some of that's due to the economy, but some of that, I think, was due to decisions that were made that, you know, from the top down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you say that like it's Some fake thing you're talking about your dad screwed up?

[Caller]

It's. It's my dad and brother together.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is your brother?

[Caller]

My brother is 36.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're going to end up owning it with him.

[Caller]

Yeah. And, you know, I love and respect them both, and I have great relationships with the both of them individually as well, but I just don't know if I agree with some of the decisions that have been made. I guess I don't know if I am allowed to go or should go into the thick of it, but I just. This is kind of stemmed back.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your. What is your title at the. At the office? What do you do?

[Caller]

I'm the operations manager.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if they're making decisions that are screwing up profitability and you're the operations manager, what. Whether you're family or not, it's your job to go into the thick of it.

[Caller]

Yeah. And that's maybe where I've. And that's probably where I fall short.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so let me ask you this. If the scenario changed and you said, okay, I get to have a voice at the table, and together we start making decisions that I consider wise or I can't stay.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't disagree with that. I feel like there's definitely been times where I have. Being an operations manager even is a loose title. I'm really a glorified foreman is kind of more so my role every day I'm out on job sites.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many team members do y' all have?

[Caller]

We have about 10 back in the shop and then about five to six in the front office. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're running the tent at the shop, and your dad and brother run the office?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You are a foreman. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah. It. Yeah, that's. I say that as my, you know, on my business card, but it's really a glorified foreman, so that's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not a bad thing. It's just where you are and. Well, I mean, I think the. Okay. There's two things going on. One is you don't have a seat at the table. Two is the company's not profitable because of decisions they've been making, and it makes it unappealing to want to take it over. Okay. And those two things go together. So we need to get this thing profitable and appealing to take over. And a part of that is. Is that I need to be involved in the decisions, and I have to have some hope for that, or it's probably Time for me to take off. Yeah, one of those two. And either one, those is okay. That's not an act of I hate you, I'm mad at you. There's no unkindness or evil words that need to be said. It's just this thing you said. You don't want to turn it over till it quits being a burden. And I think I know why it's a burden. At least I got an opinion anyway. And so I think we've got to make some different decisions. That million dollars that we lost last year in revenue, that ain't cool. And I want to help with that. And I want to help from an owner's or a future owner's seat. So let's form a little board of director, the three of us, to run this business together in preparation of my brother and I taking it over when it's profitable later. And if we can't do that, if I'm going to be in the shop and be a foreman while I perceive you all are making decisions I'm not on board with, then that probably is my signal that I need to try something else. And I'm okay with either one, dad. Whatever y' all want to do. But this is how I'm feeling right now, and I need to just air this out with y' all.

[Caller]

Yeah. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are they going to say when you say that?

[Caller]

I don't know. To be honest with you, I have a hunch. My, you know, it's a family business and we get real long. Really well. But sometimes things can get squirrely and tempers flare and, you know, that's kind of the ins and outs of a family business. And no, I don't think it would.

[Dave Ramsey]

Be like the ins and outs of a family business.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's ins and outs of. People have tempers.

[Caller]

Yep. Yeah. And not on the same page. I mean, there's a lot of. I mean, my brother is five kids with a sixth on the way here. And you know, my dad is way beyond, you know, retiring means like he, I, I wished he retired a few years ago because he, you know, deserves to take my mom out and do amazing things. But he's a, he's a hard working man.

[Dave Ramsey]

But do they have any money?

[Caller]

That's a whole nother can of worms.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that, that's. They. Well, that, that ties into this can of worms. It's all the same can worms.

[Caller]

It. It is. They, they've reinvested a lot of money into this business just to keep it afloat just to float that winter time. And you know, there's been plenty of times where my brother or my dad or sometimes even myself will get paid late or, you know, they wouldn't get a paycheck some weeks because it's just that in my personal opinion, if I'm being completely honest, I feel like we should have closed the doors two years ago. Oh, I'm being completely honest because I mean, I, I'm not in the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But I see a lot of the ins and outs. I see the stress and the toll.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then why would you stay?

[Caller]

Because I love my dad and brother and that doesn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can love your dad and brother and not work there.

[Caller]

Yeah. The other side of that coin too is, is this year this start has been much better and quicker and we have a really solid team out back. And so I'm seeing the fruits of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you just told me you should close it. Should you close it or not?

[Caller]

That's where I'm at this floating point here. And I, that's kind of why I reached out is because when I, when I inquired, I wasn't sure if I was going to have a job the next month. And then now we're full fledged, full bore. And I'm like, is this going to be an actual good year or is this going to be the last eight years where it's like we're short in the winter and we hope we have a good summer. It's kind of been a same process. I don't know, I'm kind of getting a little, A little sick of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're done. You're done. You keep talking yourself out of it every time I talk you back into it. So I think you're done. I think you've lost hope in your dad and your brother's ability to run this in a way that is profitable. And you don't think it'll change. I think you're done. If you want to sit down and talk to him and try to straighten it, that's not a bad thing. But you need to hold it with an open hand and be gentle and kind. And I have a low expectation because I don't think you're. Henry Cloud says we have necessary endings when we lose hope in the future. And, and everything you point back to is hope in the future. Hope in the future. And you know, and don't equate your love for your family with working there. Those are not the same things. As a matter of fact, it could be an act of love for you. To not work there. If you're unhappy or you've lost hope in their abilities, you disrespect them. But I respect them. No, you disrespected them. You don't believe in their business acumen, either one of them. And so, and you're the youngest one in the bunch, so I don't know what's going on, but that's, that's what I'm hearing. Dudes, I, I think you're through, but I think you could talk to them about it gently. And if a tempers flare and blow up, then maybe that's your answer. Because I'm not working for. Somebody's yelling at me. I don't care who it is. Okay, Done with that. This yelling, screaming, cuss and temper thing. Nah, I'm done. I'm done. This is. This. This conversation's over that instant. No matter who it is. I don't care who it is. So you don't. You don't have the right to do that because of DNA and then give you that. So that's where we're going with that anyway. It's good stuff. Good stuff. Oh, man, I'm sorry you're facing all that, David. It's. Yeah. Well, one thing about it, a shortage of money or an extreme amount of money, either one magnifies the problems in a business. And that includes a family business.

[Melissa]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Kevin]

I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Kevin]

Well, I'm the owner of an independent run specialty retail store and a race timing business.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a what business?

[Kevin]

Race timing. Like if people run a. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Kevin]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Specialty retail. Does it have to do with running as well?

[Kevin]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're all into running.

[Kevin]

Okay, all into running. But I have nine employees, including myself, and we do about 700,000 annually in revenue. My question is, how do I handle multiple extended employee absences that are negatively impacting the business?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are they out?

[Kevin]

Well, mostly it's health reasons. There's a lot of issues. It could be surgeries. It could be, you know, it's a variety of things. Or it's someone in their family, you know, that's experiencing, you know, these health problems and things like that. It'd be one thing if it were one person, but it multiple. And I'm just a small retail store and it, you know. Yeah, it's gotten a little out of hand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. At your size, you can only absorb so much of it in the name of grace, and then you can't. You can't continue to absorb it all because you won't have the money to pay the people that are there because the work's not getting done. Okay. So at our size, we can extend ridiculous grace for someone that has a legitimate health issue. Okay. Like, we've had people out on, you know, fighting cancer for months on end. Okay. And we continue to pay them, but we've got the ability to cover it and not. It doesn't cause us to go broke. You know what I'm saying? But when I was your size, I couldn't do that. I didn't have the money to do that like you said. And so what I did in those days, and I guess what you're going to have to do is go. My grace can only go as far as the math allows it. And that's what your frustration point is. And so I'm going to tell people that. I'm going to say the validity, how valid your absence is, does not matter. After a certain point, I can't cover it even if I wanted to. I'm really sorry that your spouse has cancer and you're having to help them. It's horrible. I'm crying with you. I'm praying for them. But you not working for four months, I can't do it. I've got to fill the position. I got to get the work done. You know what I'm saying?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's not unkind. It's. The math is. The math is a taskmaster. I mean, it'll whip your butt, you know, and that's what you're facing here. So I think you just gotta have a talk with the team as a group and say, listen, we've had a lot of time off for different things and it's gonna make us to where we can't, I can't continue to operate. And so, you know, you've got a set amount of personal time off pto. After that point, you're gonna take your time off unpaid. And if that's too extended, I'm going to have to fill the spot because I have to get the work done.

[Kevin]

Where we are now. Is that out of pto? Out of, you know, and all that. And I'm just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well. And so they're not getting paid when they're off now, right?

[Kevin]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so then you've just got to say, how long can I do that before I've got to fill the spot?

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long? You know the answer. Yeah, I do too. It's a month.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. It's not longer than a month. Is.

[Kevin]

Is right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm saying it's not reasonable at your size for. Okay. They go through their pto, which means they've already not worked for a month. Right. How long, how much PTO do you give them?

[Kevin]

I give my full time employees three weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so there's a month. All right. And so then they take another month unpaid. So now they've not worked for two months. That's the most you can do. Am I wrong?

[Kevin]

No, you're not wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

After that, you can't continue. And I will tell you this, among our team, we also will draw a line on some of that. Even though we don't have to mathematically, we. We just do it as a matter of reasonableness. Look, you're just never here, so we probably ought to call it out loud and say that, you know, and it's not a single thing. It's 14 different things. Cause some of these people are just perpetual. And sometimes it's all legitimate, but it's just like, my God, your life looks like a country song. It's just, I'm sorry, this is awful. It's horrible, and I feel bad for you, but I also can't go on not getting this work done. We need this work done. And so, you know, for now, we're just gonna have, you know, if you take more than this off, we're not gonna be able to sanction, even without pay. And so, you know, and you've gotta look at it on a case by case and go, okay, this one's one I really need to step up and invest in. But this other one, it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm just out of. I'm out of patience. And that's okay. You own the business. Let me tell you, Melissa, they can't work anywhere else. Corporate America will fire their butt with no feelings. At least you got feelings, right?

[Kevin]

True.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are not a bad person for setting out a guideline here and saying, okay, I'm gonna you decide. But I think listening to you, it's after PTO and unpaid for one month. That's about all I can do in a year. I've got to replace you. Otherwise, with the rare exception of you look at it and go, well, you know, I feel like God's telling me to invest in this. But that's a rare exception. I've had a few rare exceptions around here, and I've had a few things that went, no, you know, you're just sick all the time, and it's awful, and I'm sad and I've got to get this work done. And so I can't. You know, you've been here 90 days, and you've been here four days of the 90 days that doesn't work. And I've had that, you know, the first 90 days they're not here, but four times, you know, and that. That's just not. That's not cool. It's not that. And usually it's not. You know, you and I are not discussing people who are just lazy. We're Talking about people that have legitimate health problems at home or themselves. Correct, Correct. Yeah.

[Kevin]

Yeah. That's the thing, is that none of them I would look at and go, oh, you're, you know, you're a bum. Lacking or you're. Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's not somebody being a bum. Somebody being a bum's easy. That's. They're just done. Okay. You come to work or don't come to work. One of the two. This is, you know, you're not your place to work anymore, so. Cause you don't work. So that's kind of how that works. So anyway, yeah, I think the thing is, welcome to leadership. Sometimes it's hard. Usually it's hard. Most days it's hard because small business people like you and me, we care about folks. We don't just cut their throat. But you also have this math thing and you're seeing a pattern here that I've got too large a portion of my workforce not at work and I can't get our work done. So I've got to tighten up on this or I'm going to go out of business and all these people are going to lose their jobs.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's a reality. So you've got to make that decision. The good of the whole outweighs the good of the one. And when you can't afford to do it, you can't afford to do it. You don't have the money, you don't have the manpower, you don't have the bandwidth, you don't have the margin. And that's not evil. It's just the stage of business you're at. And I'd like to tell you it gets easier, it gets more complicated as all it gets from here. But you're doing a good job and you got a good heart and you're a good leader. They should be privileged to work for you. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast.

[Melissa]

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[Dave Ramsey]

So almost 40 years ago, my church had this cool idea that the volunteers were going to take a personality assessment. And we took two kinds. We took a spiritual gifts assessment. If I recall, it was called Houts H O u t S I believe it's a long time ago, but it was. What is your spiritual gift? The giftings in Galatians and so forth in the Bible. And then we took a thing called DISC. It was the first time I ever saw DISC. The D I S SC takes about 20 minutes to take the little survey and then it gives you insights into the type of personality you are and how you make decisions. I came home, I was all gleeful when I had the results and I read it and I went, this is this thing. Read my mail. It knows who I am. And that's pretty cool. And I handed it to my wife and she said, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I went, yes, what? And she said, this is what's wrong with you. I said, no, this is me. This is me. This is not what's wrong with me. And to this day she's convinced her personality type is the right kind and everyone else is the wrong kind. She's not figured out how the disc works. So we laugh about it. We mess with her all the time in family gatherings. Then of course we have the enneagram come out right and we have all the other assessments. Strength Finders is wonderful. Our friend Pat Lincione has working genius, which is an incredible thing for how you get work done, how you view work. All of these assessments are great. I recommend. I'm kind of an assessment junkie. I like because they give you insights into other folks, how they tick and makes you have patience with them because they're different than you. Duh. And it also helps you know how to communicate with people if you know what enneagram they are and you know how they're going to process decision making, how they're going to process emotions and so on. And so we started using the disc profile many years ago, not to the exclusion of the others, but when you join Ramsey, you take this little test and boom, it prints out where you are on the D, I, S, C. And we actually put it up on your work area. So when we walk into your work area, we can look at it, see your personality style, and at least have a clue how you're going to process the conversation I'm getting ready to have when I walk in your office. Or vice versa. When you walk in my office, you go, oh, I probably need to talk to Dave that way if I want to get through to Dave. Cause he's going to process this way. So leading up, leading down, leading sideways, whatever it is. Loving people, well, knowing how they think and how they tick is a good thing. If you've never taken this, you can get it on our website. It's very inexpensive, lots of people use it. And again, I think you ought to do a bunch of these things. I like this one because it's very simple. Is it perfect? Oh, good lord, no. None of these things are. Is it from the Bible? No, it's not what it is. It just tells you an idea. So the disc stands for different personality styles. They're in four quadrants. D is the decisive. I is the interactive. S is the stabilizing or steady. C is the cautious or conscientious personality. Let's talk about them for a second. I'm a high D I off the chain, like a 98, 99. Okay. I'm an I when I'm on stage and I'm a D when I'm running the business. Okay. So D's are the decisive. There's actually a book out that we read to our children growing up. The Treasure Tree by Gary Smalley. And I believe it was Gary Smalley. I think it is. Yeah. And it had different animals. The D is the lion. Okay. Very driven, assertive, fiercely competitive. Doesn't do details. We drive projects beautifully because we just drive, drive, drive, drive, drive. We're fast paced, we're skeptical. We make decisions very quickly and easily. And if they're wrong, we'll make another decision. And we are. There's an axis, by the way, running through these. This four quadrants. One is people oriented to task oriented. The other is fast decision to slow decision. Okay. The D is task and fast, fast decision maker, task oriented versus people oriented. And that's where we fall. That's what I'm doing when I'm running the business. Some of the stories I tell About Ramsey when I'm coaching you folks is from the D perspective coming out in me. The I. The I is the otter. They're a party looking for a place to happen. If you don't have eyes around, there is no fun in the room. Fun comes from eyes. They invented fun. They are the fun meisters. They are fun loving, sociable, persuasive, may not naturally stay focused on details. People think they're ADD because they all are. No, I'm kidding. Care deeply about what's going on with their teammates. They feel before they think they're people oriented. They think really fast. They make decisions fast, but they make it through a people paradigm rather than a task paradigm. About 10% of the people are Ds. About 25% are I's. Ds focus on when I's focus on who. If you have someone in charge of parties at your company and they're not an I, epic fail. If you have people in charge of projects and they're an I, epic fail. The Ds need to be running the projects or somebody else because there may be confetti involved, but the project will never be done. We will have two ice cream socials, but the project will never be done. Done. Okay, this is the eye. Eyes are wonderful and they're funny. And that's the part of me that comes out on stage or on a microphone where all the sarcastic humor comes from. All that, the entertainment. They're very entertaining. The S is the golden retriever. Very steady, very loyal. Big, beautiful eyes looking at you, looking into your soul. They're loyal team players. They like to get along. They hate conflict. They're supportive. They have strong listening skills. They're slow at decision making because they want to make sure no one's feelings are going to be hurt. They're people oriented and slow on the axis of decision making. They ask why about 40% of people are S's. A lot of you are S's. They have great ideas. You have to pull it out of them because they don't want to offend you. They never talk politics or religion at the wrong table ever. They will never say something about Trump in front of a Trumper or vice versa. They just don't do it. The S's are the nicest, kindest, most wonderful people that I just love S's. They're so great. I have none of it. I do not understand it at all. But you need them around that you can count on them forever. And they're the ones that intuitively know if Something's going wrong and you need to be patted on your little head. They just know it. They can tell. Do you need someone to pray for you? I think. I think Jesus told me to pray for you. No, he didn't. It was just an S. They just felt like you needed that. That's all it was. Jesus was not involved at all. Although the prayer would be a good thing. That's that. This is this. I love these people. They're wonderful people. And if you don't have S's on the team, you got no steadiness. This is where all steadiness comes from. C. The cautious, conscientious personality. They are process. They're rules. Their structure. That's their love language. And if you violate their love language, they have a little bit of Pharisee in them. They will get on you. They will tell you about the rules. You broke the rules. You're not allowed to break the rules. They are the head of the hoa. They will drive you nuts. I love them because they have all good data. They slow you down. They make you make decisions based on hard data, not feelings. Feelings are for children. You do not have feelings when you're a C. We go by the data. We go by the rules. Facts is facts, ma' am. That's the way it is. Thank you. Friday. That's the way it works. Project focused, moderately paced, if not slow. They refuse to move sometimes because they get paralysis of the analysis. They are fabulous to have on the team. This is who you want doing accounting and writing code, baby. Because it'll be right. And there's only one way to do accounting. Right and wrong. Two ways, actually. But there's the right way and the wrong way. There's not. It's not. There's no creativity involved. For you eyes. If your eyes are doing accounting, you're screwed. Okay? Because. And if a D does accounting, they don't do accounting. They don't do details. They don't want to hear about it. Just tell me after it's over, right? And so you need C's in the business. You need C's in your life that slow you down and help you make decisions based on the actual facts, particularly when there's a lot of drama going on. They're the ones that bring wisdom to the table. They are actually wonderful people. They do care very deeply. They just don't show their feelings because they only have a feeling once a year. And so that's what they're doing. They're wonderful. A dysfunctional C is a Big time pain in the butt Pharisee. If you're dysfunctional, a big dysfunctional D is an overbearing tyrant. A dysfunctional I can't stay on task long enough to add any value. A dysfunctional S avoids conflict to the point they become an enabler. And so D I, s, C. So if you're walking into someone's office and you see that they are a D or a C, you know they're going to be task oriented, not people oriented. They're not going to worry about your feelings. If you walk into their office and see they're an I or an S, you probably ought to be thinking about feelings because those people got some and be thinking about that way. If you're going in with a D or an I and you want to make a decision slowly, you're going to have a problem. Both of them are going to make a decision quickly. And some of you that want that, you're in sales. What you do with a D and an I is you don't close them. You just go olay and get out of the way. And they will run through the door and you will close the door behind them and we have a sale. You don't have to that, you just get olay, just wave the cape and go olay and get out of the way. The other people, they get to the right to the edge of the sale and they pause. The S wants to consider all the people's feelings before we buy. And the C says, do we have all the details? I'm not sure we have all the details. I'm not sure life is long enough to get all the details I want, but I need all the details before I can make a decision. And they get paralysis of the analysis. So if you're selling to people, you need to understand their style. Your style doesn't matter. You're serving them. So how are you gonna serve them? You meet them where they are and you understand. Is this stuff perfect? No, but it's insightful. Just like the enneagram, just like working genius, just like strength finders. All of these things are insightful. This is kind of the, I don't know, the beginning of that whole assessment craze that has now gone on. Everybody's got an assessment for something. And I was speaking at a leadership thing the other day and every speaker was selling an assessment, but. And I kind of thought, well, I maybe need to get an assessment, but I don't have one. This is it. And it's just. The point is these things are not fix alls. And they're not perfectly accurate, but they do give us general insights and a good overlay for leading teams for hiring people. Hiring people into teams. Like I'm a high D at work. If you're perpendicular on the thing, you're going to have conflict. And then perpendicular from me is the size. Okay. They're very people oriented and slow to make decisions. I'm very task oriented and fast to make decisions. So you got to think about these things. When you're putting someone in key positions right next to you, it helps guide you in your hiring decisions. And what seat on the bus, which, you know, get the right people on the right seats on the bus, get the wrong people off the bus, all that kind of stuff. This helps with that. It's not a fix all. We do consider this as one of the elements when we're hiring, but it is not, certainly not a deal breaker or a deal maker. Oh, we've got to have them. They're a hiring. No, no, no, no. Because a dysfunctional one of these will screw up everything. So that's. And all of us have been immature or dysfunctional in these things at one time or another in our lives. So you can check all this [e-mail] you can buy the assessment. It's pretty cool. You can understand each other's communication styles. Avoid unnecessary conflict. Lead and motivate more effectively. The D I S C. Fun stuff to kick around. Does leading your team feel like herding cats? Even if your business is winning financially, a misaligned team will create new fires for you to put out every single week. But with Entree Leadership Elite, you'll align your team and hold them accountable so you can stop hurting cats and start scaling your business. To join elite, go to entreeleadership.com elite or just click on the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube or on podcast, Kevin is with us in Austin, Texas. Hey, Kevin, what's up?

[David]

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Great to talk to you, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too, sir. What's up?

[David]

So my wife and I own a small business and we provide turnkey material handling solutions for the warehouse and distribution operations. Operations. So we've been in business for 15 years now. We have about 10 employees and did about 15 million last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good for you.

[David]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can I help?

[David]

So my question is, how do I become comfortable delegating. Delegating jobs that I've done in the past or only I've done in the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Past, Rather training long enough, mentoring, discipling long enough that you become very comfortable with two things with that team member on that job. Competency and integrity. Competency means they can do the thing that you are wanting, that you have been doing as well as you are, almost as well as you. Integrity means they're going to do it like you, not exactly like your personality, but aligned with your values. They're going to tell the truth, they're going to love the customer well, they're not going to cheat, steal. They're going to be a whole person that is mature, that you can hand something to until you can trust their competency and integrity, which requires a little bit of time together, usually a lot of time handing it off to them before you trust. That is not wise. It's not micromanaging to train someone. Micromanaging is once they've proven themselves, incompetency and in integrity. And that's not a 20 minute exercise, but once they've proven themselves in a firefight to have your back and to do it the way that Kevin does it, and they can answer the question, what would Kevin do? And they can do it that way, then you're ready to hand it off to them. The more complicated and customer facing and important customer facing that the position is, the harder this is to accomplish because you have to spend more and more and more time with them.

[David]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let me give you an example. Okay. You can fix a computer at Ramsey if it's broken and you're on our tech team, that's fairly simple. You either can fix the freaking computer or you can't. Okay. And so our tech leader in that area observes you where you were hired, supposedly with some technical knowledge. And you can either fix the computer or you can't. Okay. You can either turn the wrench or you can't. Right. And so we observe that and we should get them up to fixing computers because that's what they're paid to do, or replacing or, you know, hitting the piece of salt, reloading the software, cold restart, whatever the magic is that does that. Right. And they should be able to demonstrate that fairly quickly. And we need to be able to turn them loose or we got a problem. So the simpler the task, the quicker you should be able to delegate it to them. The more sophisticated and detailed the task, the harder that is. Does that make sense?

[David]

No, of course, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so leading your company like you would lead it as the final handoff in a succession plan. Oh, that would be the hardest one ever. So for me to turn this over to Daniel Ramsey, the president and that's, you know, we've been working on that one 10 years, baby. 12 years now. And so. And it's not even all in his lap yet. So there we go. You know, and. But that. That's the ultimate is you turn it over to someone else, your job. But in the meantime, there's a hundred or a thousand other jobs we can turn over to someone else. And that's the idea of hiring someone so that they can do it. If you can't turn it loose once they have demonstrated competency and integrity, now that's on you. That's an emotionally immature person that gets too much satisfaction from being the dog, and they desperately need to be important, and they can't turn it loose. They can't hand it to someone else. Is any of this making sense?

[David]

No. Totally. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so give me an example of where we're going to turn some of this loose. Give me one.

[David]

Okay, so one of the things that I do is when I go to a customer, I have to be able to assess what their needs are. If I walk into a warehouse, I have to be able to assess where their opportunities are for, you know, a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Problem and needing a solution where you can add value.

[David]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can we be of service here, or do they already have their crap together? Yeah, right. Okay, good. I like that. And there's probably, what, 50 components of that?

[David]

I mean, sure, there's a lot of different things that you could look at depending on what they do.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you could probably say that 80% of the opportunities fall within 10 items. I'm making this up.

[David]

Probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm making this up. It might be 12. It's not 42.

[David]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If the whole list is 100, the 80, 20 principle is going to apply. Out of the hundred, 20% of them are going to have 80% of your opportunities. If you know something like that. I would guess that's true in most situations.

[David]

No, no, no, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's what we. That's where we start. We got to train them on the most important 10 or the most important 12. These are the big 12. This is the big 8. This is the big 7. This is the big 17. I don't know what it is, but you got to learn the 17, and you got to look for those the first 35 seconds. You're on the floor, baby. You're looking for these 17. As soon as you walk into this man's warehouse, this is where we can add value. And out of those 17, you're going to find four of them in 35 seconds. Watch. Look. Here, here, here, here. See it? Boom, boom, boom. Here's your target. Acquire the target. Put the bead on it. Put a laser on it. Go, go, go, go. And you just train them to think in force, ranking from most important to least important opportunity. And then once you go through the 17, you got the big ones, you got something to sell from then to the guy and go, I can add value in these areas, and I can show you that in eight minutes. And then there's another. There's another 26 things that we can probably add some value to, but I'm gonna have to dig a little deeper and do a more thorough analysis and. And then let them walk hand in glove with you and learn how to do the full analysis as well as the first thing you walk in. Draw and fire. That I did. A touch of nerve. Does that make sense? Is that. Is that. Does that apply to your world?

[David]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay. Because that's how I would do it if I was. If I was in there. So. Yeah, because, I mean, I think you've been doing this for over a decade, right?

[David]

Yeah, about 20 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so it's second nature to you, but when you start making this list down and they read it the first time, they're gonna think you invented fire. Oh, God, that's so insightful. You know, and. But for you, it's just like a yawn. But you do quantum physics on this stuff so fast, because it's what you do. It's your thing. It's where you. It's how you made 15 million freaking dollars last year because you're a stud in this area. And so if you're Peyton Manning or you're Tom Brady, this is how you throw a football. These are the mechanics to get this thing to spiral and leave my hands and be 47 miles an hour and drill a freaking hole in that guy's chest when it gets there. If you've ever caught a football from a professional quarterback, you'll never want to do it again. Okay? And so you know what I'm saying? So this is like, oh, my God. But there's a series of things that create that physical motion with that football, right? And they can explain it in detail, but there's only a few people on the planet that can actually accomplish it. And you're that guy. You're freaking Peyton Manning walking in there in this warehouse, and you can see stuff because of your 10,000 hours of experience that Malcolm Gladwell talks about. So this is gonna Be fun for you. Cause now you're gonna become a teacher rather than just a doer. You're gonna teach other people to have what you feel like are natural insights. But they are a forced ranked list is what they are.

[David]

Right. I think breaking it down into the 8020 is really helpful too. I think that's something that I haven't really paid a lot of time or spend a lot of time doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you've never been in a warehouse and you're in there for five minutes, how many things do you see that you can add value? 5 minutes usually.

[David]

I mean right off the cuff, I mean 10, probably. Five or 10 easy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm talking. It's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not your first hit. And that's the low hanging fruit, man, is what it is. It's what this guy doesn't know that it's what the customer doesn't know, that you know. And so immediately we can make ourselves valuable right then. And that tells me that when I pull the thread on that sweater, I'm gonna find seven or eight other things under the hood. And that's also how I find problems inside Ramsey. I start digging around and I see something with my insight and they go, whoa, how'd you do that? 30 freaking years of doing this. That's how I saw it. And then I saw it and I pulled the thread on it and then I opened up the hood and oh my God, you got insects under here. It's a problem, you know, and that happens inside my business sometimes. And you know, and it's like stuff I know that somehow we didn't get transferred and I got to go back and redo it. So anyway, it's delegating, systematize it, and then you teach it, and then they prove to you that they did it, and then they prove to you that they did it again. And then you delegate a part of it, and then you delegate another part of it. And then, you know you're not turning your customer over to a doofus, and you're not turning your customer, your brand, over to a doofus. And they're not going to mess up either one. And that is how you do it. I wrote a little quick read on delegation off a talk I do on this and I will send you a free copy of it. Hang on the line, we'll pick up, make sure we got all your particulars, and we'll send it out to you. It's like 37 pages. It won't kill you to read it. It's not bad. Might be 75, but it's not much. But it gives you some of the basics we just talked about. But it does not have some of the things we talked about also. So you guys go back and re listen to this episode because that was really good. Kevin is amazing. I'm proud of you, Kevin. You got a great, great business. I'm Excellent job, buddy. Well done. Hey folks, remember, better a wary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast.