Dave Ramsey (3:06)

Okay. So you don't have the money coming in unless you add a new project to pay payroll, right?

Matt (3:19)

Yeah, we've taken, we've taken between 30 to 50% up front for, for all the projects we're working on. Now we've got a few more in the pipeline. You know, after we learned the lesson to stop taking deposits up front and using them for other stuff. But we'd have to, we'd have to rearrange a schedule to put, push, push those projects ahead to actually make any money to, to really get to the other projects.

Dave Ramsey (3:48)

Wow, what a mess. All right, so unless you take other projects, you can't make payroll and you can't buy supplies to do the current stuff under way.

Mike (3:59)

Yep, yep.

Dave Ramsey (4:07)

Okay. Because I'd be fine with not paying the bank and I'd be fine working the vendors. So the 260, I can just stiff arm that if I can get these jobs completed. What do the six people do?

Matt (4:26)

So they are, we've got five that are field labor, installers, carpenters, and then I've got one project manager.

Dave Ramsey (4:36)

Okay. Do you have access to any micro four day projects that you could put one of these guys on that turns some cash right quick?

Matt (4:48)

Yeah, we've got, we've actually got a couple on the schedule. We just, we pushed one up last week that we got knocked out. So that helped us, you know, make payroll for this week. So we're trying to secure some more of those. But a couple of these projects we're going to be probably $60,000 short on as far as, as far as labor material goes after those deposits were gone. So we'd have to, we'd have to do quite a few small projects in a short time period.

Dave Ramsey (5:13)

Yeah, you're gonna have to. And, or you're gonna have to take supplies on credit.

Mike (5:19)

Yep, yep.

Matt (5:20)

Which the struggle with that is, you know, we've already done that and you know, we've got, I know these big vendor bills that we can't pay.

Dave Ramsey (5:27)

So they're not likely to let you go pick up a bunch more stuff. Yeah, they're going to put you on COD pretty quick.

Mike (5:34)

Oh yeah.

Dave Ramsey (5:37)

Okay, so one of the five projects, the smallest of the five projects. How much was the deposit and what's the total size of the project?

Matt (5:47)

Yeah, so that project, we're going to wrap that one up today. But that one was an 18, 18 and a half thousand dollar project. We took half up front about four months ago.

Dave Ramsey (5:56)

So you're going to get the other nine right today. Right. Hopefully. Okay. All right. And that's going to help you make payroll.

Mike (6:05)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (6:05)

So now we're down to four projects.

Mike (6:07)

Yep.

Dave Ramsey (6:08)

Okay. Because my, my the way we turn this is we survive the stuff that's on the books that you screwed up the deposits on the remaining four. And the way we survive those is we generate enough cash from micro projects and side projects to make payroll and complete the existing projects. What's the largest of the four?

Matt (6:35)

The largest of the four. And this one is absolutely ridiculous that I did this, but it's a $256,000 home addition. We took half up front for that and used that to float the business for the past six months.

Dave Ramsey (6:54)

Okay, Wow. All right. If we take that one off the table, that leaves three. So what I'm trying to do is choose my pain. Okay. Because those people are probably gonna sue you before this is over. Because I don't. I don't think you're gonna finish that one on time anyway. They're gonna go ballistic at some point, and rightly so, actually, but. Yeah. Okay. The other three projects, what size are they? Because I'm going from 18 to 256. You're all over the map.

Matt (7:41)

Yeah. So then we had another. We had a kitchen remodel that was 90,000. We took half up front for that same thing, used it to make up for losses on past projects. That one we're going to wrap up next week. We've taken progress draws throughout that project, so we're going to get that one knocked out. But that one comes with a vendor bill of $45,000 for the cabinets. My fear with that one is if I. If I. If I don't pay this vendor, they're going to go ahead and put a mechanical lien on that client's house.

Dave Ramsey (8:12)

And you don't have 45 more coming because you've already taken other draws against the second half. Right. Okay. All right, so how much do you have coming on that one?

Matt (8:23)

So that one we've got 9,000 outstanding, which will cover the remaining payroll to get it knocked out.

Dave Ramsey (8:34)

Yeah, probably not. You're probably going to give a lot of that 9,000 to the vendor and work a payment plan with them on the balance, telling them what's going on. You got any more cabinets you're buying from them?

Matt (8:46)

Well, we're supposed to buy cabinets from them for this home edition that we've got also. But we actually found the same cabinets at a different vendor for about $8,000 less. So we're going to switch over to a different vendor anyways.

Dave Ramsey (8:59)

Yeah, okay. But I'm just saying you're probably not going to get any more business out of them.

Matt (9:03)

No.

Dave Ramsey (9:03)

Once you Put them on a payment plan and give them five grand towards their 40 and go. I'm trying to save this and I'm trying to keep from filing bankruptcy. So work with me here, and I'm going to send you money as quick as I can. I know I got to get this cleared, but. And you add them to your 72 vendor list, basically. And. But you work out a deal with them so they don't file the mechanics lien. All right, so that gets us down to 256, plus two other projects. Oh, my gosh. What are the other two?

Matt (9:31)

The other two is. One of them is a bathroom. We just started that one this week. That's going to be another four weeks left. That one. We should actually have enough coming in from the project. We only took 30% up for that one.

Dave Ramsey (9:45)

Wait a minute. You started this week and you spent the deposits this week?

Matt (9:49)

No, we spent the deposit. We took the deposit for this one about two months ago. So that deposit was gone. We just started it this week.

Dave Ramsey (9:56)

Why did you wait two months to start?

Matt (9:59)

We were just booked up that far with bad projects.

Dave Ramsey (10:03)

Okay. Okay. So that one's how much again?

Matt (10:06)

So that was a $45,000 bathroom. We took 30% up front on that one. But the remaining draws on that will cover all of the costs for materials and things.

Dave Ramsey (10:16)

Okay, so you can run that one out. You can run that one out. So then that only leaves one more.

Mike (10:22)

Yep.

Dave Ramsey (10:23)

Because the 18's done. The kitchen's done. The bath you can run out. You got the big 256. What's the last. What's the number? 4 1.

Mike (10:31)

The last one.

Matt (10:31)

That one's a whole house remodel. It was $186,000 project. She's mostly paid up. She owes us about 6, and it's going to cost us about 9 to finish it over there.

Dave Ramsey (10:41)

She's almost done.

Mike (10:43)

Yep.

Matt (10:43)

This one's almost done.

Dave Ramsey (10:46)

So you're out except for the 256.

Matt (10:50)

Right.

Dave Ramsey (10:50)

And some cabinets. Right.

Matt (10:54)

And a few other vendors.

Dave Ramsey (10:57)

Yeah, I mean, you got the 72,000 worth of vendors. You told me that. But I'm talking about we're adding cabinets to that or we're adding a portion of that $40,000 cabinet bill to that. And then you got the 256, which is a freaking disaster. And the rest of them you're done with.

Mike (11:12)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (11:13)

And you're finishing all of these projects. They're all coming to a head.

Matt (11:16)

Yep, we're going to finish all those.

Dave Ramsey (11:18)

The cabinets that you so why not take new projects and run them properly? Right?

Mike (11:29)

Yes.

Matt (11:29)

I mean once, once we, once we clear these last, these last few and we've just got the big one.

Dave Ramsey (11:33)

No big ones I want you to take. I want you to kill rabbits, not elephants. I want you to turn stuff in two week turns and let's just start generating cash at 40% margin. Two week turns. Don't take anything else big and long. You can't afford it right now. You can't handle to sit on the deposit and you need to take a deposit, but you don't need to take a deposit. But in your business you should take a deposit. But yeah, so you're out, you've made it through except for the 256 is what we're saying and some cabinets. So yeah, go take a bunch of short term projects and then prioritize where the, as you finish those and you clear, you know, you take a $20,000 thing and you clear six grand, eight grand. What are we doing with that? What are our priorities? Well, our priorities are payroll and truck payments and then vendors and bank is last.

Mike (12:33)

Right.

Dave Ramsey (12:34)

Credit cards can jump in the creek. I don't care if your credit goes bad. Screw it. You need to clean up that mess. But, and then you, you know, so if you do a million dollars, that's gonna make you 400k in the coming 12. You could clear all of this in 12 months. But you're gonna have to learn to do short term stuff and you're never gonna manage cash the way you did. Cause this is way stressful. I'm stressed out and it's not me. Absolutely there's no fun. I mean, really, you're not having any fun, man. Yeah. So you have learned your lesson. You'll never do the misuse of the deposit again, right?

Matt (13:11)

Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Dave Ramsey (13:13)

Yeah. You run these jobs as separate standalone businesses. They're Separate P&LS your job cost everything back to the job and you keep all the money in the job that's on the job until the job is done. And only then if there's money laying there, do we clear it and move it onto general fund.

Matt (13:30)

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Dave Ramsey (13:32)

Yeah, you've already, you already learned that lesson though, I think, haven't you?

Mike (13:35)

I, I did.

Matt (13:36)

I did. We did. We did start job costing and treating the funds as separate.

Dave Ramsey (13:40)

Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, you gotta run. You gotta run. Yeah. I think you're in the quick turn small ankle biter stuff where you make 40% and you just do a whole bunch of them. And if you can't get enough of those really fast, you may not be able to keep all six people. Right. You'll have to look at and force rank those guys. But if you can get enough to keep them busy and you're making 40% on everything they're doing, you're not only making the payroll because that's part of the cost of the job, your job costing their hours, but you're making a 40% profit. And so, yeah, if you go make half a million dollars, that's 200 grand. 200 grand gets you out of this mess because you could clear your vendors and you can finish the 256. The bank is still going to be sitting there looking at you, but you got to work and you're going to have to work through them. But that's a longer term issue.

Mike (14:43)

Yeah.

Matt (14:44)

And they're kind of aware of the situation actually, and they've been super cooperative. The bank already.

Dave Ramsey (14:50)

Yeah. Because they're screwed.

Matt (14:51)

They don't have a. They don't have a.

Mike (14:52)

They don't have a choice.

Dave Ramsey (14:52)

They don't have a choice. Yeah. The only thing, the only thing they act proactive they could do is pick up your trucks. Right. But other than that, they're just screwed. And so. Yeah. And don't factor any more of your receivables to them. They don't get any more liens on your stuff.

Mike (15:08)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (15:09)

They're sitting on the sidelines. They get paid after we stay open and move our way through this 256job. And then after we start clearing those vendors up, Cabinet people included. And then bank is last on the list. Credit cards are last on the whole list. Trucks would be at the top of the bank list. Following me.

Matt (15:30)

Yes, sir.

Dave Ramsey (15:31)

Yeah. Cause it's gonna take them longer to get to you and screw up things than the other people we're talking about. So. Yeah. Can you line up $500,000 in the coming 12 months, five to $800,000 in the coming 12 months of small jobs that are two, three week turns.

Mike (15:48)

Yeah.

Matt (15:48)

In the next 12. Yes.

Dave Ramsey (15:49)

Yeah.

Matt (15:50)

You know, obviously we learned that I am not good at managing the large projects and we lose money on them every time, so.

Dave Ramsey (15:56)

Well, you can manage them. You can learn how to manage them. But I don't want any more. I don't want any projects of any size I lose money on. This ain't a hobby, so. But you need the quick cash turn that the large job even managed well does not give you. I don't need you taking Draws on that large job in addition to the deposit and redeploying those draws, that's what got us here. So instead I just want completion, profit in pocket and profit then applies to mess. Is that working?

Mike (16:31)

Yeah.

Matt (16:32)

Makes sense.

Dave Ramsey (16:32)

One more time. You think you can get 5 to 800k of two three week jobs?

Mike (16:38)

Yeah.

Matt (16:38)

In the next 12? Yes.

Dave Ramsey (16:39)

Yeah. And then if you want to go stick your toe in the water on larger jobs 18 months from now, you can pick one up maybe. But there's a lot of money to be made in those small bathroom jobs and the three week turns on a paint job or, you know, whatever, without taking on a complete rebuild. Yeah, absolutely.

Matt (16:59)

They're historically, they're our highest gross profit projects anyways. We should have been focusing on them from the start.

Dave Ramsey (17:04)

Yeah, I agree, I agree. Well, it's okay to have a product mix five years from now that includes one department or area of the company that does the large stuff, while we've got the other thing over here making bank on these small turns. The small turns are also a lot more front office work per dollar. So, I mean, it takes as much effort to sell a small job as it does a large job, for instance, almost. So, yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. I think you can turn this. You've got to prioritize where every dollar goes and you've got to start generating some cash. And so what we did while you and I were talking was we just said, okay, this is an elephant. It's a mess. How do you eat an elephant? A bite at a time. And I start winning through. I started going through every detail and said, okay, here's a bite. Oh, that job's done. Oh, that job's done. Oh, that job's done. Oh, and we can get there. And we got this one problem with the kitchen. Oh, okay. And now we've got the 256 is the only thing left outstanding, plus the 72 and the cabinets and the 260 or the 185 bank stuff. So you can get there, dude. But that's what you've. That's how you've got to approach it. Because if you look at the overarching thing like I was doing at the beginning of our conversation, it's overwhelming. It was overwhelming me. I couldn't figure out how you're going to make it. I just about told you to punt, but. But you're not punting. You're gonna make it. You can turn this, but you're gonna work your butt off and pay for your sins by having no life for the next eight months, you're gonna just and you're working for everybody else. You ain't working for you. You're working for the mess you made. And you can clean it up, though, and you'll be glad you did. And it's gonna take you. This is a very profitable business when run right second remodel call in this show. One highly successful one almost bankrupt. There you go. But right remodel's got both of them had the potential to make a 40% margin. Don't you just wish in some of your worlds you could do a 40% margin? Hello. So there we go. Yeah. So you can do this, Matt. But it's going to be a lot of work and you're going to be very focused on every little detail and not let someone else reset your priorities once you put them in place. You force rank who gets money when and if somebody doesn't like that. Toughies. They're going to get their money when they get their money. Maybe you lose a relationship with a vendor permanently, but that's different. You're going to lose it when you file bankruptcy anyway. So you might as well take pick your pick out who's going to be mad. Decide who's going to be mad and why and what power they have. And, you know, mechanics lean or take the trucks or what. You know, what's the downsides? Wow. Very, very interesting, dude. Very interesting. I think you can do it. Hey, holler at one of our coaches. And if you need some help as you're weeding through this, I bet one of them can walk with you through this. Man, that's a hard one. But Matt's doing what real leaders do. Facing it head on and learning as he goes. We'll be back in just a minute. You got into leadership because you wanted more. More freedom, more flexibility, more impact. But somewhere along the way, more turned into too much. Too many meetings, too many tasks, too many nights staring at your laptop after everyone else has gone home. That's where Belay comes in. Belay matches busy leaders with exceptional executive assistants, bookkeepers and marketing assistants. People who help you reclaim your time and refocus your energy. Because leadership isn't about doing more. It's about doing what matters most. When you partner with Belay, you get the human advantage. A customized staffing solution that gives you more of what you need. Productivity, clarity, and, yes, more margin. And right now, when you talk to Belay and mention More, you'll get 10 bonus hours in your first Month. When you sign up before December 31st, don't head into the new year running on empty. Text entree to 55123. To get 10 bonus hours in your first month, take the quick quiz and get started down the path toward more with belay. That's entre to 55123. Next up is Mike in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania who decided to scale back his company's profit sharing but was facing pushback from long time employees.

Mike (21:25)

I run a 15 million dollar a year industrial distribution company, have about 16 employees and kind of a split between a lot of 30 plus year veterans and then kind of the new crowd that is 10 or years or less. I stepped into management about four years ago. We're family owned, have been for a few generations and a practice that we've always had that I kind of got passed down is that at the end of the year we distribute our profits. So profit sharing is something we've always done, but it has always been that all profits are distributed between ownership and employee. And so and in some ways that distribution was a way to bonus an employee more so than it was framed as profit sharing. But in their experience it's always been a ever increasing, every so often payment that comes every year to them. And so as we've grown and kind of our market shifted, it's harder and harder to make that work. Plus it allows us to not have anything retained for our own, you know, operating in case of a rainy day or for growth initiatives that we might want to undertake. So sort of had to step that down due to kind of a tough year and realized that ultimately that's not the best way to do a profit sharing model. Not very typical to do it that way, but obviously I've gotten a lot of rough feedback and kind of bad attitude from the longtime employees. We pay market wages, we pay full health care, I think we compensate pretty fairly. But I'm just kind of wondering what your experience has been where you've had to kind of adjust the payment not in a upward way, but maybe in a downward way or give out less than what someone's used to because of an operating, you know, your, the environment, the economy, whatever it would be. Just wanted to see your feedback on that and maybe your, your perspective how you do that in a way as a leader that's, you know, you, you. I care for my people but I also have to run a bottom line. So kind of that.

Dave Ramsey (23:34)

So you just didn't have as much profit to distribute. It's that simple.

Mike (23:38)

It's that simple.

Dave Ramsey (23:39)

Plus I'm sharing profits, but the profits aren't as big.

Mike (23:42)

Yeah. And we've always given away 100% and that's not something we should probably keep doing. We need to retain profit for operations a little more frequently, I think for a general.

Dave Ramsey (23:54)

Retained earnings before you do profit sharing.

Mike (23:57)

Yes. Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (23:58)

And that cut into it. But also profits are down.

Mike (24:01)

They were down last year. This year we're back. But we have to. We're recovering from a bad year. So it's really a two year journey to get healthy again where we want to be. So that's been a fun stretch for the last six months, but. Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (24:16)

What are you having? Wait a minute. What's the cash being used to recover? I don't understand. If your profits are up, why are you needing cash to recover?

Mike (24:25)

Well, overall, we had a lot, so we're recovering. We operate a business with payables because customers pay us on terms. We pay vendors on terms. So the payables got expanded a bit and we're using the profits to recover. Kind of extended payment balances with vendors. So we'll, we'll clean it up over time. Yeah. Does that make sense? Like what. What's happening there? Profitable this year we're paying.

Dave Ramsey (24:53)

We're only profitable because you didn't pay your bills.

Mike (24:58)

So last year we didn't, we didn't have a profit and we paid a much smaller bonus. Almost nothing.

Dave Ramsey (25:04)

So what did they say?

Mike (25:05)

Then we sat down and they were, if you ever do that again, I'll walk out. Things like that. And I said, it's okay. I don't. It's profit sharing, guys. It's not a promise to you. It's not a guaranteed part of your pay.

Dave Ramsey (25:18)

If you ever do that again, I'll walk out. Is the last conversation I have with that person.

Mike (25:23)

Okay?

Dave Ramsey (25:24)

You don't freaking threaten me. I own this. You are confused.

Mike (25:30)

I think part of the difficulty is that I am. These are. People have been there longer than me. I've only been there.

Dave Ramsey (25:35)

I don't care how long they've been there, they're fired that day.

Mike (25:39)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (25:39)

You don't threaten the person that owns the business.

Mike (25:43)

Right? Right.

Dave Ramsey (25:44)

I don't do threats. Okay. The profits are down. This was sharing of profits. I can't share something I don't have. If you ever do that again, I'll leave. You're gone. Don't worry about it.

Mike (25:54)

Gotcha.

Dave Ramsey (25:55)

Over. End of story. You entitled or little twerp? This is entitlement. It's arrogance. Now let me go back and Fix that. Now that I've already fired that guy, okay? He's gone. If I'm you, I'm firing him today. You go back to the office and fire him. I'm so over this guy right now. Okay? Now, because that's somebody that didn't understand. Now then that means that you and your family have done a horrible job of framing what profit sharing is. We made that mistake one time at Ramsey and we fixed it. Okay? We started doing our profit sharing monthly. And we stand on the stage in front of everyone. You only got 15 people though, right?

Mike (26:42)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (26:42)

Yeah. So you stand up in front of everybody and go, okay, guys, here's our profits. They are up 10% over last month. They are down 4% over same month last year. Year to date, we're up 7%. And what all of that means is, is that your profit sharing this month is gonna be a little better than it was last month. By the way, we've got some expenses coming in next month and I don't think they're gonna be that great, just to let you know. But here's how profits work. We are sharing what our family owns with you. We are not obligated to give it to you, but we have chosen as an act of kindness to share with the people that run the business with us. So we're sharing the profits, but you're not entitled. And everybody, the whole company says this out loud. Profits happen when revenues go and everybody says up. And when expenses go and everybody says down. Remember, everybody, you're self employed. If profits are here, we'll share them. If they're up, we'll share them. If they're down, we'll share the pain with you. And we tell everybody that every month. We have removed all entitlement to profit sharing. You are not due this. It's not part of your comp package. It's an act of mercy by the owners that we are giving you some of our money to say thank you for being on the team. And we're real blunt like that about it because we don't want any little snowflake thinking that they're entitled to this money because it changes thing. And then you get the crap. Like, if you ever do that again, I'll walk out because y' all hadn't framed it right. And these guys, they be, they. They took it as your integrity was breached because you had promised them money regardless of what happened because you hadn't communicated well how profit sharing works. So you guys gotta start being very clear about where profits come from when profits are up, bonuses will be up. When profits are down, bonuses will be down. When profits are non existent. We all did that together, people. And no one gets anything. Cause there's no profits. We can't even pay our bills. And that includes giving you extra money. So when sales are down, we. We don't have an ice cream party. We only celebrate when sales are up. This is like adult stuff. It's not a freaking kindergarten. It's a business. So you guys reestablish that. And I've got a feeling, though, Mike, that you're not at the top of the leadership team enough to pull what I just claimed off.

Mike (29:33)

I mean, yeah, I was given. I'd run the day to day. That was kind of a.

Dave Ramsey (29:39)

You don't have the power to fire that guy, do you?

Mike (29:42)

No, I did. I fire people.

Dave Ramsey (29:44)

You fire that guy on the spot.

Mike (29:46)

I didn't fire him because I said, can you time with their.

Dave Ramsey (29:49)

You have the power to.

Mike (29:51)

Okay, I do.

Dave Ramsey (29:52)

All right. Do you have the power to communicate to the whole team what I just talked about?

Mike (29:56)

And I did that. I sat him down. I said, this is where we're at this year. This is what you're going to expect.

Dave Ramsey (30:01)

But I want to reframe where I want to reframe whether they're due money or not. You're not due a thing. This is a gift. I am sharing some of my money with you. It's not your money. I wanna reframe who owns it. Because that guy, when he said that, what he was saying was that you promised me this no matter what happened. That's what his brain was telling him.

Mike (30:27)

Right, right. Well. And he got used to it over.

Dave Ramsey (30:31)

Yeah, yeah. But he also felt entitled to it.

Matt (30:36)

Right.

Dave Ramsey (30:37)

And that's my fault as a leader, when I allow somebody to become entitled to something that they're not entitled to. I have done a poor job of communicating this. And the problem with this crap is you have to say it over and over and over and over and over and about the time you get sick of hearing it. That's about the time they hear it. You just gotta do it over and over. You have the chief repeating officer. We literally. Our CFO wore a T shirt on stage last Monday that said, profits happen when revenues go up and expenses go down. It was a black T shirt with white letters. That's how ridiculous we are about repeating this over and over. So we don't want anyone to think that, you know, but I. You know, if we make a big old pile of money, I'LL share it with my folk and you will too. Right, but if we're not making any money. We did this together, boys and girls. We either went up together or we went down together. So. But we're not going to have anybody threaten us here. We don't do that. We don't have. We're not. I don't threaten them. And you know, I'll explain to you. You can't do this and work here. That's not a threat. That's just an observation. Okay, but you don't, you don't give me a threat like, wow, you know, I do this again and I'll just walk out. Well, I can help you with that. Let's walk out now. I can handle that belligerent man. Yeah, that's the tail wagging the dog. And I don't. You haven't been here long enough to be a smart ankle like that. So you need to rethink what you just said because those are firing words. So you got about 30 seconds to rethink that and. Or just fire me. The ones good with me. That kind of crap, I got no use for it. And that's arrogance and belligerence and it's subversive in your culture. Yeah, that's not easy. But Mike's learning how to make the hard calls. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Next, we have a call from Isaac in Sacramento, California who wanted to know if he should quit his full time job and go all in on his fast growing construction business after it exploded from 300,000 to over 3 million of revenue in one year.

Mike (32:47)

I own a small residential construction company in the Sacramento area. Last year was our first year in business. It was more of a side hustle. We did about 70,000 in gross sales with about 10,000 in gross profit. This year we're going to do about 300,330 in gross sales with 70,000 in gross profit. And next year we have a little over $3 million in signed contracts with a projected 350,000 in gross profit.

Dave Ramsey (33:14)

How the crap did you grow from 300k to 3 million in one year?

Mike (33:19)

Clients, Clients, Clients. I mean, honestly, just bigger jobs.

Dave Ramsey (33:24)

Word got out that you weren't ripping people off, huh?

Mike (33:27)

Word got out that were reliable.

Dave Ramsey (33:29)

Yeah, you do, you do what you said on the timeframe that you said and you can't beat them off with a stick, right? Good idea.

Mike (33:36)

It's piling up. The question I have is this is my side job. I work a. I work a full time salary position Remotely for. I'm a project manager for a company.

Dave Ramsey (33:47)

You made 70 on 300. Are you gonna make 7 on 3 million?

Mike (33:53)

No. So that's kind of where I'm playing with the numbers. We're going to make about 350 on the 3 million.

Dave Ramsey (33:58)

What do you make at your day job?

Mike (34:01)

Make 110 roughly.

Dave Ramsey (34:03)

Sounds like a waste of time.

Mike (34:06)

There's a few factors that are kind of playing in that's having me a little scared. So number one, we have a newborn baby, their first baby. So just the security is kind of scaring me a little bit. Number two, we lose our health insurance. And number three, my wife doesn't work, she's full time mom and student that we're cash flowing her education. So just kind of scared to make the leap.

Dave Ramsey (34:29)

And really, questionnaire 150 divided into 350 is two and a half years, right? In next year you're going to make what you would make in two and a half years at your other job. You can buy health insurance with that, right? Easy. You can feed a little baby with that. Easy. The only risk is if the next year you make 70.

Mike (35:04)

Right?

Dave Ramsey (35:05)

Oh, wait a minute, you made two and a half years. So the next year, if you make 70, it's now going to take you three and a half years to get back to even. You're going to get so far ahead next year that if you like took two years off, you'd still be ahead. That makes sense.

Mike (35:27)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (35:27)

Yeah it does. So why do you not believe that? Okay, if in 2025 you make $3 million, net or gross, and you net 350, so you run about a 10, 11% margin, why do you not believe that the following year in 2026 you will do at least that well?

Mike (35:52)

Well, the contracts I have for the job starting this year, for this next year, for the 3 million, I've been working with these clients for a year in the planning stages.

Dave Ramsey (36:01)

Are you not working with clients now to fill up back when those are done?

Mike (36:05)

Exactly. We don't have anything for 2026 and that's what it takes.

Dave Ramsey (36:09)

Get something in the pipeline, man. Where'd you get these customers.

Mike (36:14)

Referrals from architects. I only market to architects.

Dave Ramsey (36:17)

And then, then you need, you need to be working architects and go where's my referrals for 26?

Todd (36:23)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (36:23)

You can't just work on the projects and not keep the pipeline full. Part of your job as a business owners fill the back of the pipeline. As you finish these other projects, you got new ones to Replace them.

Mike (36:33)

Right. Okay.

Dave Ramsey (36:35)

It's not just executing the project, it's keeping the pipeline full. That's the marketing.

Mike (36:41)

Okay?

Dave Ramsey (36:42)

Yeah. I think the whole thing is growing so fast it's scary and you don't feel like it's sustainable. You don't have confidence in yourself to sustain it.

Mike (36:52)

And that's part of it. The other thing is, like I said, it's mostly been a side hustle to pay off our debt.

Dave Ramsey (36:57)

If you make 350k, it's officially not a side hustle.

Mike (37:01)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (37:04)

It doesn't matter where it came from. But all that matters is whether you believe in the future. And I. Listen, the guy I'm talking to, I don't know why, how you could screw this up unless you just don't keep the pipeline full. But if you'll go fill up the pipeline, I think you'll have at least 3 million the next year. Don't you?

Mike (37:27)

Hopefully, yeah.

Dave Ramsey (37:28)

Not hopefully. I think you can do it. You've proven you can do it. Unless these contracts were just a fluke and it was a one time thing and people like that don't exist anymore. You got the only ones and you're done. That's just not true. Right? Right. There's other people just like them in 2026 that need your help. Maybe it's 4 million.

Mike (37:51)

Right.

Dave Ramsey (37:52)

So health insurance is bull crap. Go buy some health insurance. You're making $250,000 more. Of course you can afford health insurance for a quarter million dollars. And little babies can eat on a quarter million dollars more better than they could eat on a quarter million dollars less. So new baby doesn't cause it. You're making more money if you're making less money. Those would be valid concerns if you said, I'm making 150 and when I go full time, I'm only going to make 100. Okay. Now we can talk about I got a baby and health insurance and that makes me nervous. But you can't talk about that when you're making two and a half times more. Right? Right.

Mike (38:28)

No, you're right.

Dave Ramsey (38:28)

You're a stud, man. Act like it.

Mike (38:31)

Oh, thank you.

Dave Ramsey (38:32)

You got this. You can do it. You can do it, man. Go into the game and knock something over. You can do this. You're better than you feel like you are. And you know how I know that? $3 million worth of people bet on Isaac. I don't even know you, but I know people don't give doofuses $3 million. Not much anyway. And so you know you're obviously doing a lot right. There's a lot to be proud of here. A lot. Can you do some things better? Yeah. I'm glad you're listening to this podcast. I'm glad you're engaged in entre leadership. We'll help you do better, but man, you're a stud. You got this. You're killing it. So proud of you. Well done, sir. Quit your stinking job and go to work and be a. Be a business guy, man. You're that guy. Get her done. Man. You are. You are on fire. Way to go, Isaac. Sometimes the hardest part is just taking that first step. Stick around. We'll be right back. If you're working 60 to 70 hours a week just to keep your business running, you're headed for burnout. The only way to grow without running on empty is to stop working in your business and start working on your business. And that takes advice and accountability from people who actually make payroll. That's why you need to join an advisory group. You'll get a coach and a circle of business owners like you who will help you stay focused and grow without sacrificing your nights and weekends. Find out if advisory groups are right for you@entreeleadership.com advisory groups or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. And lastly, it's a call from Todd in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, wondering how to pass down his $20 million family company to his daughter while also treating his other children fairly. In the process, we got into succession planning, tax strategy, and transition of leadership.

Todd (40:45)

I am the founder and CEO of an entertainment, lighting and installation company that's been in business for 40 years with a top line revenue of 20 million and 42 full time employees. My question is, how can I successfully transfer my business to my daughter while preserving my estate and considering my other two children who are not involved in the business?

Dave Ramsey (41:07)

A lot of different variables there, brother. So she operating with you now?

Todd (41:11)

Yeah, she's been here about two years and she's doing fantastic.

Dave Ramsey (41:15)

Okay, so we got leadership and succession plan kind of in. In mind and heading off. What are the other two kids doing and what's their status relationally?

Matt (41:24)

Great.

Todd (41:25)

I mean, just, they're just in different fields, you know, one of them is in it and the other one has her own jewelry business and they're all. They're both doing great and very happy. So.

Dave Ramsey (41:35)

Okay. And do you have other assets?

Todd (41:38)

We do. Our whole estate, I think including our business, is 22 million and I think it's 10 million. The business is estimated at about 10 million and 12 million in a mix of real estate and cash.

Dave Ramsey (41:50)

Mm. Okay, so the business is estimated at 10 million, and then there's 12 million of other staff.

Mike (41:56)

Yep.

Dave Ramsey (41:57)

Okay, well, if you do. Are you married?

Mike (42:00)

Yep.

Todd (42:00)

My wife is part owner. She, you know, we share the ownership.

Dave Ramsey (42:03)

Yeah. Okay. Have you been working on estate planning from a tax perspective with an estate planner yet?

Mike (42:11)

So. Not really.

Todd (42:13)

We've talked to some estate planners. They've suggested things like idgets, and, you know, we looked at that.

Dave Ramsey (42:18)

You don't need any of that.

Todd (42:20)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (42:21)

Your estate's not big enough.

Todd (42:23)

Yeah. Okay.

Dave Ramsey (42:24)

I mean, Today you have 14 million. 13.99. And your wife has 13.99. So you've got 28 million. You can transfer with zero federal estate tax between the two of you with a simple ab Marital trust, it's called. It's a very simple, very simple transaction. Now, when you get above today 28 million, then. Then you've got a problem. So is your business growing?

Todd (42:50)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (42:50)

How old are you?

Todd (42:52)

I'm 63.

Dave Ramsey (42:53)

Are you healthy?

Todd (42:54)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (42:55)

Okay, so we're going to get into a whole bunch of weeds here. You ready for the weed eater? Okay.

Todd (43:00)

Before you go to the weed eater, I just want. I want. I think I might have misspoke. We do have a revocable trust set up that's pretty. Pretty current right now.

Dave Ramsey (43:09)

Okay. Have you moved the business into the trust yet?

Mike (43:13)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (43:14)

Okay.

Todd (43:15)

The real estate and the businesses in the trust.

Dave Ramsey (43:17)

Oh, okay. All right. So you've already frozen that from an estate planning standpoint. So you're not gonna have an estate tax issue.

Todd (43:23)

Right. We have the cash in there too. Like any extra cash, you're not gonna.

Dave Ramsey (43:26)

Have an estate tax issue. Cause you've already moved it. And if it grows beyond 28 million, it doesn't matter the value of the real estate or the value of the other. The only thing that you'll pay taxes on is on the basis. And there's no taxes on the basis. Cause it's under 28 million. Assuming you've done a simple marital trust to go irrevocable trust. So the marital trust is that your 14 million, if you die before your wife is left to her in trust upon your death, her 14 million, she can leave to the kids. And then she can leave your 14 million to the kids upon her death. In the meantime, she can live off of the 14 million that was in your trust. So that's in simple AB trust. That's how that works. Okay. That make Any sense?

Mike (44:12)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (44:12)

Okay. Then on top of that, if the stock of the LLC and the ownership of the real estate has moved into a trust, the value at the time you moved it into the trust is frozen in time forever on the irrevocable trust, which keeps. In other words, if the real estate goes up in value or the business goes up in value to breach that 28 million, it doesn't matter because it doesn't count. It's not in your estate anymore. You've already moved it out of your estate. I moved 99% of Ramsey out of my name 16 years ago for that reason.

Todd (44:47)

Okay. You see, I'm in a revocable trust right now. You have an irrevocable trust.

Dave Ramsey (44:51)

Well, I have a children's trust set up that owns Ramsey.

Mike (44:54)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (44:55)

99%. I own 1%. I own the voting stock. Yeah.

Todd (45:00)

One of the less smart. One of the lawyers told me to. To split off 4 voting shares, and then I can set that to my daughter that's in the business, and then she could control it when the time comes.

Dave Ramsey (45:09)

Yeah. Then that brings you to the other question that you guys have to answer as a family. And you can answer this one of two ways. I have a friend who is Gen 2. He's in his late 50s, and the company's probably worth $50 million or maybe 100 somewhere in there. I don't know exactly, but it's doing really well. And his dad dictated that unless you work in the business, you don't inherit any of the business. So his brother, who's not in the business, has no ownership in it after his dad passed.

Todd (45:44)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (45:45)

I, on the other hand, did it the other way. I left it to my three kids to own it regardless of whether they work here, and then to the grandkids to own it regardless of whether they work here. So there's two different hats they wear. They wear an owner hat, and then there's the leadership team hat that takes direction from the three owners. And so when I'm gone, the Gen 2 of the three. The three Gen 2 Ramses will dictate to the leadership team how Ramsey is run. And at this stage of the game, one of them is Daniel, and he's the president. So he works for his two sisters and him as an entity. Does that make sense?

Todd (46:29)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (46:29)

And then they can. And as there are profits, they'll be distributed to the owners of the business beyond the compensation packages for the people that work here. So, for instance, your daughter could get a percentage of profits in the future as the CEO when you're gone. And then the profits that are left over after she gets compensated for her CEO package could be distributed to the three ways.

Todd (46:57)

Right? Yeah, we have it set up third, third and a third right now in the trust.

Dave Ramsey (47:01)

Or you could leave the business to her and the real estate and other stuff to the other two.

Mike (47:08)

Right.

Dave Ramsey (47:09)

You happen to have numbers that allow that.

Mike (47:11)

Okay.

Todd (47:12)

Do you think it would be safer as far as just relationally between the kids if we kept them separate from, you know, my daughter just owning the business and the other two just owning other. Or inheriting other parts of the estate. So it's not. I mean, I'm just concerned that possibly, you know, well, my daughter might want.

Dave Ramsey (47:30)

To almost sit and talk to them about it and go, listen, here's the thing. I mean, because the two that don't work there could gang up on the one that owns it and works there.

Mike (47:37)

Right.

Todd (47:38)

That's what I was concerned about. Like if they have different thoughts about, oh, I'd like to get, you know, like to do different things with business or the.

Dave Ramsey (47:43)

Well, now the operation of the business is not up to the owners. The owners are picking up only major decisions of the business, including giving, you know, direction to the CEO.

Mike (47:55)

Right.

Dave Ramsey (47:55)

But the CEO doesn't have to come and ask them whether they're going to hire somebody or whether they're going to buy a piece of equipment. They run the business.

Mike (48:01)

Right.

Todd (48:02)

But I was just thinking more if they wanted to get their share out just for whatever reason and they're putting pressure on it, you can't.

Dave Ramsey (48:07)

Yeah. You got to dictate exit strategies on that. And part of the trust, if you're going to. Hours aren't allowed to take theirs, period. You can't take it. The only thing you could do is get thrown out. That's it. But you can't liquidate your share at Ramsey because we don't own it. We manage it for God. It's not ours. So that's the way we're looking at it. So that's the. But if you're gonna allow them to sell their share, then you need to put terms on it under which you could. One of em could buy the other one out or can an outsider buy or not. All that kind of stuff you gotta get into. But you Happen to have $10 million worth of business and $12 million worth of the other. If your daughter that got the business and the other two got 6 million or some change each, that's not unfair, right?

Mike (48:53)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (48:54)

If you wanted to go, if you wanted to go that way. It happens to be with your numbers. Or you could adopt my friend's thing and go, if you don't work inside the business, you don't get to own it. That's not unfair, it's not unethical. It's just a different way of looking at it. I chose not to do it that way just because of the way I've worked it through. But I don't have a big problem with that. That's not a bad idea because at least they're not sitting. And the other thing you can do is extrapolate this out $60 million in 25 years and another generation and try to anticipate who's gonna misbehave then.

Todd (49:33)

Right.

Dave Ramsey (49:34)

And then that kind of tells you what your weak spots are. If you magnify this thing, it kind of points out what the weaknesses of your system are. Because if you got it, the only way it works is if the three get along perfectly well. That doesn't work for the next gen because there might be 19 in Gen 3. In my case, there's eight in Gen 3 already. And that's supposedly all that we're getting. But. Yeah, so. But anyway, you follow. So I mean, it's a great discussion and you're very wise to have it ahead of time. There's not a right or a wrong. The only wrong is not dealing with it now.

Mike (50:10)

Right.

Todd (50:11)

I have other thoughts. Like if I was to.

Mike (50:14)

How do you.

Todd (50:15)

How do you set out a timeline, like for me to transfer it over to like her running the business, like being the GM in my seat and then me being out of it? Like, do you go by your energy level and like, you know, I go.

Dave Ramsey (50:28)

By her energy and competence level. I stage skated off of their competence.

Todd (50:32)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (50:33)

And as long as they are competent, we can move them up and put more weight on their shoulders. But they have to have the muscles and the shoulders to hold it. And then I'll put a little more weight on. And then we'll put a little more weight on. A little more weight on. So three and a half years ago, we moved Daniel into the President's office and he and I are co running the business. 50 50. But I've dialed back during that three years and it's no longer 50 50. I'm not as day to day in the operations as I was three and a half years ago. But so it's gradually. Gradually. And as long as he carries it, I'm going to continue to gradually click it off. Not because I Don't want to do it, but because I've got to be able to turn it over to him, I've got to be able to turn it over to them, to the next gen, and I've got to build in them the character and the intellectual strength and spiritual strength to carry a load this heavy.

Todd (51:20)

Right. Yeah. So you kind of go by their readiness, you know exactly. About the responsibility as they are able to take it.

Dave Ramsey (51:28)

Exactly. Because there's two things that don't bless your kids or the business. Thing one is if you give them something to run before they're competent, well, that hurts everybody, including them. And thing two is when they are competent, you don't give it to them.

Todd (51:42)

Right.

Dave Ramsey (51:43)

That hurts everybody involved. Because you end up with a guy I talked to the other day. He's 85, his son's 65, and the old man's still running the freaking place. He basically neutered his own kid.

Todd (51:55)

Gotcha. Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (51:56)

You know, he's 65 years old. He's never run anything. My God, you know, that's pitiful. And so all that is ego. And so he should have turned that stinking thing over 20 years ago is what he should have done when the kid was in his 40s and the old man was in his 60s. And then they had a good, steady flow of conversation and. And now what you've got is all this weird nepotism garbage going on. And I don't think the business is going to make it. I think they're going to fail because of their personal weaknesses. But that's what you're facing, is those kinds of decisions. But you're brilliant, Todd, for being proactive in this and making the decisions. There's not really a wrong decision except giving it to them too soon or too late. By not being proactive. There's not a wrong decision. Whether you give it, make them run it together, or you split it off and let her have it and you split the other assets off to the other way. In our case, Sharon got nothing out of the business. When I die, the kids get it that day. The next gen 2 gets it. Sharon's got other assets to live on while she's alive, plenty of them. So, you know, and she's not. She doesn't continue to run this. And so that sets her up. And since all of my estate planning is presupposed on, I die first. I am watching over my shoulder. I can just tell you that. So that's fine. Hey, guys, this is great. Great discussion. Todd, man, what a year we covered a lot of ground in 2025 and 2026. Wow. Gonna be even bigger. Hey, thank you to everyone who called in with your questions and stories. You're the real heroes out there doing the hard work every single day. And a big thanks to our interview guests and to all of you who tune in every week. The show wouldn't be what it is without you. We can't wait to see what 2026 brings. We've got more conversations, lessons and leadership content coming your way to help you grow your business. Until then, remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead. Thanks again for listening to entre leaders.

Todd (54:09)

Sam.