This Family Drama Could Destroy This $3 Million Business

Summary

Episode Summary: "This Family Drama Could Destroy This $3 Million Business"

Episode Release Date: May 5, 2025
Podcast: The EntreLeadership Podcast
Host: Dave Ramsey, Ramsey Network

In this compelling episode of The EntreLeadership Podcast, host Dave Ramsey delves into real-life business and leadership challenges faced by listeners, offering seasoned advice drawn from his extensive experience as CEO of Ramsey Solutions. The episode titled "This Family Drama Could Destroy This $3 Million Business" primarily revolves around family dynamics within a business setting, team management, and effective marketing strategies. Below is a detailed summary capturing the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Navigating Family Conflict in a Third-Generation Business

Caller: Brad from Vancouver
Timestamp: [00:57] – [13:53]

Brad, a third-generation manager in a family-run tourism business, seeks guidance on resolving escalating internal conflicts that threaten the company's stability. The business, generating $3.1 million in revenue with a $2 million net profit in 2024, is operated seasonally with 15 employees. The core issue stems from disagreements between Brad's father and his sister, with their respective children—four cousins and two brothers—also entangled in the discord.

Key Points:

• Leadership Stalemate: The parents, who are the shareholders, are unwilling to heed legal and accounting advice, leading to a breakdown in communication and decision-making.
• Generational Tensions: As the business transitions to the third generation, differing visions and entitlement issues among the younger family members exacerbate conflicts.
• Lack of Formal Agreements: Existing management documents lack clauses for buyouts or dissolution, limiting avenues for resolving ownership disputes.

Notable Quotes:

• Brad: "We're at the end of our ropes with it."
• Dave Ramsey: “[...] it’s like your dad against his sister and your dad's kid. You got siblings in this? [...] It sounds very childish.” [00:31]

Dave's Advice: Dave Ramsey emphasizes the necessity of decisive action to prevent further deterioration of the business. He suggests exploring legal avenues to dissolve the partnership if mediation fails and urges Brad's father to confront the issue head-on. Ramsey advocates for a clear and honest conversation, laying out the consequences of continued inaction, even if it means legal intervention. He underscores the importance of maintaining professionalism and setting firm boundaries to preserve both the business and familial relationships.

Dave's Strategy:

• Legal Mediation: Investigate the possibility of dissolving the partnership through legal means in Canada, similar to processes in the United States.
• Direct Communication: Encourage Brad's father to initiate a calm, yet firm discussion with his sister, outlining the untenable business situation and the need for buyouts or dissolution.
• Empowerment: Advise Brad and his brother to take control of the situation, potentially separating from the family business if resolution remains unattainable.

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2. Managing Underperforming Team Members

Caller: Alan from Dallas
Timestamp: [17:26] – [28:22]

Alan, the owner of a sourcing company in the DFW area with a revenue of $6.6 million last year, seeks advice on handling team members whose effort levels do not meet his expectations. With a small team of seven, Alan struggles with employees who "mail it in" and lack the drive to contribute meaningfully to the company's growth.

Key Points:

• Team Motivation Issues: Alan identifies a lack of effort and commitment among certain team members, affecting overall productivity and morale.
• Cultural Alignment: Emphasizes the importance of instilling core values that promote ownership and responsibility among employees.
• Leadership Challenges: Balancing the need to maintain team cohesion while addressing individual underperformance without causing resentment.

Notable Quotes:

• Alan: "I don't feel like the effort level is equal to what I'm paying." [18:23]
• Dave Ramsey: “You don’t expect them to be able to do exactly what you do at the same level. But the effort level, that's kind of what I'm struggling with.” [17:31]

Dave's Advice: Ramsey recommends establishing and reinforcing core company values that emphasize a sense of ownership and responsibility. By clearly communicating expectations and holding team members accountable, leaders can foster a more committed and high-performing workforce. Ramsey also advises addressing underperformance directly, which may involve difficult conversations or making the tough decision to let go of employees who do not align with the company's standards.

Dave's Strategy:

• Define Core Values: Identify and communicate the fundamental values that drive the business, ensuring they are visibly displayed and regularly discussed.
• Promote Ownership Mentality: Encourage employees to treat the business as their own, fostering a culture of diligence and accountability.
• Address Underperformance: Implement a zero-tolerance policy for behaviors that detract from team cohesion, such as gossiping or lackluster effort, and take appropriate action to resolve these issues.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Don't mail it in. We're playing for the Super Bowl. Every play you grip the ball and you put your head down and you run headlong into the line.” [25:11]
• Dave Ramsey: “You're not responsible for other people's activities. All you're responsible for is managing them.” [27:18]

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3. Developing an Effective Marketing Strategy on a Responsible Budget

Caller: Kyle from New Haven, Connecticut
Timestamp: [36:11] – [41:46]

Kyle, the owner of an event staffing company with 200 part-time employees and full-time staff, generates $2.1 million in annual revenue. Despite a strong marketing strategy of door-knocking and cold calling, Kyle faces challenges in enhancing his digital presence to compete with more visible competitors.

Key Points:

• Digital Marketing Deficiency: Kyle acknowledges that his current offline marketing efforts are insufficient in the digital age, leading to lost business opportunities.
• Competitor Visibility: Struggles with competitors who have better online visibility despite offering inferior services.
• Budget Constraints: Seeks cost-effective methods to improve SEO and overall online marketing without overspending.

Notable Quotes:

• Kyle: “Our competitors tend to have more visibility and so we have competitors that can't come close to the quality of the product that we have, but they're more visible online.” [37:10]
• Dave Ramsey: “You really gotta get down in the weeds with them and have them give you some proof, text, give me some actual examples of when they did this.” [40:30]

Dave's Advice: Ramsey advises Kyle to invest in specialized digital marketing expertise, either by hiring a dedicated digital marketer or outsourcing to a reputable agency. He emphasizes the importance of vetting candidates thoroughly to ensure competence and reliability. Ramsey also suggests leveraging platforms like Google Ads and LinkedIn for targeted advertising, given the B2B nature of Kyle's business. Additionally, he cautions against falling for inexperienced marketers who may promise unrealistic results without delivering tangible outcomes.

Dave's Strategy:

• Hire Expertise: Consider bringing on a full-time digital marketer or contracting a seasoned freelancer with a proven track record in SEO and online advertising.
• Targeted Advertising: Utilize Google AdWords and LinkedIn ads to increase online visibility within the specific geographic and industry niches.
• Performance Metrics: Establish clear benchmarks and key performance indicators (KPIs) to measure the effectiveness of marketing campaigns and ensure a positive return on investment (ROI).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Show me how a Google AdWords strategy works. Show me what a LinkedIn strategy would look like in this situation.” [40:05]
• Dave Ramsey: “A marketing strategy that works, that's where it leaves you. You're going to enjoy being there. That's the plan.” [41:22]

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Conclusion

Throughout this episode, Dave Ramsey provides actionable insights into managing complex family business dynamics, fostering a committed and high-performing team, and crafting effective marketing strategies within budget constraints. By addressing callers' specific challenges with empathy and practical solutions, Ramsey reinforces his role as a trusted mentor in the realm of business leadership.

Listeners are encouraged to implement the discussed strategies to navigate their unique business challenges, emphasizing the importance of clear communication, accountability, and specialized expertise in driving business success.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. I actually did this stuff today. If you want to submit a question, go to entreeleadership.com ask or leave us a voicemail at 844-944-1070. In either case, we'll get back with you and make you a caller on the entree Leadership Podcast. 844-944-1070. Dial it up. Brad is in Vancouver. Hey, Brad. How are you?

[Caller]

Good.

[Brad]

How are you? Thanks for your time today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Certainly, sir. How can we help?

[Brad]

So I am the third generation of a family business. We're in the tourism sector. We operate seasonally for six months a year. I'm currently one of two managers, and our parents are the shareholders. We have about 15 employees, and in terms of the business, in 2024, we did 3.1 net, or, sorry, 3.1 revenue, and 2 million of that was net after tax. And the business itself is a great business, but there's a lot of internal fighting as it's my father and his sister. And now that we're onto the third generation, her kids, there's four of them and there's two of us, and there's just a lot of conflict with the operation and whatnot of the business. And so the question I'm trying to get to is we're at the point where we would like to either be bought out or buy them out. They don't want to take the advice of our lawyers. They don't want to sit down. They don't take the advice of our accountants. So I'm just trying to figure out what are some steps I may be able to take to try to get them to the table to at least start those conversations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds very childish.

[Brad]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's like your dad against his sister and your dad's kid. You.

[Brad]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got siblings in this?

[Brad]

Yeah, me and my brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

And all these people work there.

[Brad]

So they've stepped back now during COVID we've taken over. And, yeah, the four of them and the two of us are all work there, all the kids. So six of us.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the six cousins.

[Brad]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And who is it that doesn't want to talk about changing this?

[Brad]

So we try to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who is it?

[Brad]

It's the.

[Dave Ramsey]

The.

[Brad]

The parents, the shareholders, my cousin's parents. They. They don't want to meet as share. They don't want to have shareholders meetings with my parents. And they're leaving it up to their kids. They made two of their kids directors now, and they're leaving it up to the kids to deal with it all.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they don't want to have shareholders meetings.

[Brad]

They don't want to have. Yeah. And directors meetings at that.

[Dave Ramsey]

They don't even want to discuss the problem.

[Brad]

Yeah. It really comes down to is money. While we were. I've been doing this. I'm 29. I've been doing it for 15 years. So we started. We all started quite young, and our parents would. We had an hourly wage, and at the end of the year, it was a good business. So there was always a little bit of profit. So we would often get a bonus. And those bonuses were paid out in lieu of the directors getting. In lieu of the shareholders taking profit out of the company. So everything was divided 50, 50. But now their kids want more, so they want to try to increase our wages through the roof. And they're very combative with trying to move forward unless they get what they want. And we're kind of at the end of our ropes with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are there any managing documents, any partnership documents?

[Brad]

Yes, there's. We have a document. We have the management documents, but in our documents, we don't have like a shotgun clause or a buyout or sell clause.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Have you sought legal advice?

[Brad]

Yeah, we have to a degree. It comes down to spending or, you know, a lot of money for potentially not a lot of outcomes. For, like, example, this past year, there was an issue with my brother, who is the director getting with the bank, getting signed in authority. They didn't want to recognize his signing authority after they had already signed the documents to recognize it about six months before. And it took the bank shutting down our accounts to get them to do something about it. So it's. I'm just a little bit of a loss there. But when we talk amongst ourselves. Yeah, we're kind of coming to the same conclusion that we may have to go more of a lawyer.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't know much about law in Canada. Okay. In the United States, this is a general partnership that needs to be dissolved. And if the parties cannot come to a mediation and aren't willing to discuss dissolving it, you could sue in circuit court in the United States to have the general partnership dissolved.

[Brad]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a judge would rule that this business is sold and the proceeds are doled out to the shareholders. If you cannot come to a mediation on one of the parties buying the other party out. I don't have a way to make childish, selfish people quit being that.

[Brad]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. I wish I had. If I had that magic wand, I'd be able to bail money. But. Yeah, I don't understand the. Other than the sense of entitlement or the brattiness, straight up immaturity of some of these people, why they would take such an adversarial stance on a business that's making $2 million a year profit.

[Brad]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I. I think I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna investigate if that is a possible move in Canada. Let's pretend for purposes of our discussion that that's a possible move, like it is in the United States. Okay. That you could go into court and the judge would adjudicate and say, this partnership has to be dissolved because the parties can't work together. Okay. And so we, you know, we're suing for the disillusionment of the partnership. I'm guessing there's a mechanism to do that. If you find that to be true and you need to pay some attorney's fees out of your pocket, you and your dad to go find that out, then I'm going to tell your dad to grow a backbone and go sit down in person with his sister and say, look, the kids have all come to the end of the rope. They're not going to work together anymore. So someone has to decide. Me and you have to talk about this. Someone has to decide to buy one of the other out because we are not staying together. If we will not decide that, if you won't talk about that, we're going to have a judge force you to talk about it. We're going to sue you. And honestly, that is what I would do, but I think your dad needs to sit down in person, calmly and quietly explain, this is ending. Now, it's either going to end because we all sit down and work it out, or it's going to end because a judge ends it. You decide. I would prefer we work it out and we don't give lawyers a bunch of our money. And I would prefer to continue to be your sweet big brother and have Thanksgiving together. But if you guys want to continue to be buttholes, then we're gonna have the judge drill you a new one. I'm serious. This is the conversation. Because that's what's going on. And somebody actually needs to call this crap.

[Brad]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's where y'all are. And so. But I think your dad should have had a conversation leading up to this, like, two years ago.

[Brad]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

But he stood back and your aunt is being a butt. And nobody's saying the emperor has no clothes. And so your dad needs to proclaim dude's butt naked. We're not going to pretend like this isn't happening anymore. So my kids are done, and we're going to get our share out of this either by working out something where you buy us out or. Or we buy you out or the judge is going to make us do that. So you decide which of these we're going to do. Do we sit down and do y'all want to be bought out? That's fine. We'll be happy to do that. If y'all don't want to be bought out, then. And you, you want, you know, you. You want to walk away with some money, that's fine. Or we'll walk away with some money, that's fine. But we're not staying and we're not leaving with no money. So you're gonna deal with this. And you've gotta have this very firm, but calm, kind, low volume, no cussing conversation with his sister because it's not her kids that are the problem. Well, the directors get to decide. No, honey, you're the shareholder and I'm going to sue you if you don't help me solve this because I can't get you to behave. And all I'm asking is for someone to have a reasonable conversation here. And you guys are just being idiots and we're not going to do this, so obviously don't call them idiots. That's probably not going to work, but you get the idea. You guys have tiptoed around this and acted like it's all going to go away if we just ignore it. You put your hands over your ears and go, la, la, la, la, la. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. It's something y'all have been doing.

[Brad]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your dad is not stepping up. Am I wrong?

[Brad]

Yeah, I mean, we're. Me and my brother are kind of at the point now.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've.

[Brad]

We're having these conversations with him and I mean, he's been doing it his whole life, right? So there's a little more connection, I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

He doesn't work there anymore, right?

[Brad]

No, he doesn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's not. His identity is no longer there anyway, so are. You don't have actual shares yet, right?

[Brad]

No, me and my brother do not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so this is his problem? Actually, it is.

[Brad]

But yeah, the idea was to always hand it down to us. I've listened to a lot and I know your take or the take on third gen and all that.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's nothing wrong with third gen. I don't have a problem with it, but there's a lot wrong with. You're all third gen. But third gen is not. It's not necessarily. Has to be adversarial and crazy people involved, but y'all sure did stir it up. So I don't know. I mean, you talk to your dad if I'm you and your dad is just gonna do nothing. I'm gonna go get a job. I'm leaving. I'm not gonna stay in this. Cause it's untenable. You're trying to put your finger in the dike and you're getting ready to get swamped when this dam breaks over the top of your head and you got no control over this. And the people that should be making the decisions are acting like 4 year olds. Your aunt made your cousins directors. You all aren't directors.

[Brad]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Something's got to move here, man. So this thing of waiting on this to get better on its own is an unrealistic hope called a dream that's turning into a nightmare. It's not going to get better on its own. You guys are going to have to drive the truck through the front window and something's gonna change. So maybe your dad won't deal with it. But if I'm you, I'm not staying if he's just gonna stand there and watch these people that ha because they happen to have hit the DNA lottery, run this thing into the tank while you're over here working your butt off trying to hold it together with balin wire and duct tape. No thank you. That's too much stress for no money. And what's your best hope in that situation? I get to be partners with these people. No, thank you. That's your best hope if you do nothing. So doing nothing's no longer an option. It hasn't worked well for your family. And your family needs to learn to decide how to deal with this. So I don't think your dad's gonna deal with it. The more I sit here and think about it, I think he's gonna sit on his hands and then you're gonna have to make a decision whether you're gonna stay in this soup or not. But if he will deal with it, that's the proper thing to do, is to have a sit down with his sister and say, look, we're not Going forward. These kids can't work together. Your kids are misbehaving. They think our kids are misbehaving. They're not working together. This is not good for the business. It's not good for the kids. So there has to be a disillusionment. One of us has to buy the other one out. If we can't come to terms on that or begin a discussion about that, then we're going to have to have a judge tell us what to do. And we'll have the judge do that. That's called a lawsuit. So I'm getting ready to sue you. And that's what your dad should do.

[Alan]

Should.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what he should have done 36 months ago. But. And that's why I don't think he's going to do it now. But anyway, that's where I would be if I were in your shoes. I'm sorry, man. That's a painful. Well, it's. It's so stressful. There's so much emotion and anger in the air every day when you go to work. People can't. I mean, think about your team. Who would want to work in this environment? It's like working in a beauty parlor. Oh my God. Where it's just gossip everywhere and who's. And they have to take sides with one of the six cousins. Oh man. Sounds like a hillbilly nightmare. Oh, man. Please. No, really. That's awful for your team. Such a toxic situation. Somebody needs to be a grown up and do something about this. Oh, man. I'm sorry. Wow. Ouch. Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch. Wow. Well, guys, you need to have detailed ownership agreements. In our case at Ramsey, it's a trust document. Because the stock here is held in trust among the three Ramsey's of the next generation. And the details of that are clearly outlined. Very clearly.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Alan]

Thanks Dave. It's great, great to talk to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help? I.

[Alan]

Okay, so I'm, I own a sourcing company in the DFW area. We have a scrappy team of seven and we did 6.6 last year. And we've, we've grown to the point we've grown a little bit faster than my, my skills have been able to prevail, I guess, as far as hiring and training and things like that. And so my question kind of revolves around a concept that I guess I would describe as, do I have unrealistic expectations of my team members? Really? I don't expect them to be able to do exactly what I do at the same level. But the effort level, that's, that's kind of what I'm struggling with. I don't, I don't feel like the effort level is. It's equal to what I'm paying Some of these people, I got some.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you think you got some guys mailing it in that are just working at J O B?

[Alan]

That's right, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Well, one of the things we did at the stage you're at, you're at the pathfinder stage of the five stages of business. And I'll send you a copy of the book build a business you love, which will walk you through this because it shows you how the entree leadership system works. All right? Now, one of the things we did when we were at this stage was we had to start identifying what the values were that drove me. How did I make a decision on something? And so we ended up with 15 or 16 core values. Over the years, we have wordsmithed them and realized some of them were redundant, rolled them back in. Today we have 14 core values and they're all over the building. They're plastered in the stairwell, they're plastered on the walls. We talk about them in staff meeting. One of them is that you're self employed. Treat this place like you own it. You care about the customer like you own it. You care about getting the work done like you own it. You care about excellence like you own it. If you're walking through the parking lot and there's a piece of trash, if you own the place, you pick up the trash, not step over it and say, I sure hope maintenance will get this right. You pick it up. If you're the owner. If you're the owner and chairs need to be moved, you move chairs. If you're the owner and a truck needs to be unloaded, you unload the truck, you have a sense of ownership emotionally, and that is a core value. That is who we are at Ramsey. And we tell you when you join Ramsey that if you want to be a we, these are the core values. One of them is a sense of self employment. We're all self employed. We all work for ourselves and we're going to treat this place like we own it all the time. If you can't do that, you can't work here because you're not a we. We do that. And if you're not a we, you're not a we. You don't work here. And so if someone here, based on that is mailing it in immediately, it might be a co worker is going to go, hey, dude, we don't do that here. Or a coworker could go to a leader and say, hey, so. And so is mailing it in. They come in late, they leave early, and they sit on Facebook all day and they're not in social media, you know, they're just mailing in, they're just collecting a check. They're a parasite and nobody wants to work beside that, much less employ that. And so we have made it a cultural icon that you have to care. What you said you have to care to work here. And so now you've kinda gotta go in after the fact with two of your seven people. But you just start with all seven and go, guys, I've come to realize there's a couple of things that drive me and one of them is the self employed mentality. And that is one of our core values. Going forward, we're going to all act like we're self employed. We're going to all act like we care. We're not going to mail it in. And if I sense somebody's mailing it in and if I sense somebody's just working at J O B just to collect a check, then you're not going to fit in here. I'm going to talk to you about it and see if you can stop doing that. So you can stay though if you want to be a we. We don't mail it in, we leave it all on the field. We're playing for the Super Bowl. Every play you grip the ball and you put your head down and you run headlong into the line. You do what it takes to go win. You call the play, you execute the play, you leave it on the field. You're breathless when you come to the bench. That's what we that are self employed do. And that's what you're gonna do if you're part of our team. And if based on this change, some of you may wanna elect to not be here anymore. Because honestly, that's gonna happen involuntarily if we don't make some changes among some of the attitudes. So it's okay. I understand up to this point not gonna hold any grudges for the past. Cause I wasn't real clear before, but I wanna be really crystal clear with everybody kind and say, if you work here, this is what we do. And you can do that with anything. We did it with gossip early on. We had a little bit of gossip going on when we had eight or 10 people here. And I don't have much toleration for that kind of garbage. So I set up one of our core values is you hand your negatives up and your positives down. If you hand your negatives down and you stand at the water cooler and Gripe about how dumb your boss is. Your boss will fire you. Right. Because he's dumb. He'll do that.

[Alan]

What do you find motivates people to do that? Because I've had some of these. I've been an elite member for a little while. I'm gobbling this material up as fast as I can. I love it, by the way. Thank you so much for it. You know, one of the.

[Dave Ramsey]

One of the.

[Alan]

Where I'm at with this one person is. Is. And tough conversation number four. Where is. It's basically an ultimatum.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. They're gone.

[Alan]

I. I don't think you're gonna make it.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not gonna make it.

[Brad]

Yeah.

[Alan]

That kind of thing. But so the quandary, I guess, is. Is a little bit. It's. It's twofold. The one is this person, while he's not. He's carrying a very small portion of the weight. That portion is enough to really hurt me if I have to hurt you.

[Dave Ramsey]

More if he stays.

[Alan]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because everybody else is running at 20% off because they're watching this moron.

[Brad]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alan]

Well, that. That's where I'm at. And, you know. And I. And I did. You know, I've written it hurts.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got to tell you, when you got seven people and you let go one of them, you lost 1/7 of your production is the way it feels. Minimum. You might have lost more than that.

[Alan]

It's more than that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I fired a star salesperson one time because they would not stop gossiping. Couldn't get them to quit, and I fired them. And I felt like, God, man, I'm lost. I'm gonna have to get out there and sell again. I'm gonna have to pick up the ball. And, you know, the weirdest thing happened. We didn't even miss them. The other people picked. Other people picked up the volume. And all my fears were completely unfounded. And that's what you're gonna find here, because the other people are gonna be so glad this guy's gone. Cause thoroughbreds don't like to work with donkeys. And they're gonna step it up. They're gonna pick up. And you could even have a meeting and go, you know, guys, we're a small group. I'll just go ahead and tell you. It scares me at a small group like this to let somebody like this go. But I felt like it was more important for our team to be aligned and our team to be a team and our team to love each other and trust each other and everybody here playing with everything they've got than it was the amount of production that that one person had. So the rest of you and me, we gotta pick up the slack to offset this until we can get somebody h. That actually cares and has a crusade mentality. And I'll get them in here and fast as I can. But the rest of us, come on, guys, we gotta work together. And we're gonna pick it up. But the good news is we don't have to, you know, we don't have to tolerate somebody that doesn't care anymore.

[Alan]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the other one that's kind of hovering in the fringes in this discussion will straighten up really, really fast when you do this.

[Alan]

Yeah. And. Yeah. And start being aggressive and trying to make sure they didn't. They don't fall into some of those same. Exactly. Yeah. This guy has a great. He's humble. But the hungry and smart parts are just not there, you know, he's plenty smart.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's a likable slacker.

[Alan]

That's right. Yeah, exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you go, well, he's friendly. Everybody likes him, but they don't respect him. That's what you'll find when he leaves.

[Alan]

You have to create rules that you shouldn't have to create, like respond to the customer within two hours.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello. I don't need to tell you that that should be automatic, Right? Answer the phone.

[Alan]

Holes in the dam. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, really, this is not hard work here. And so you want to do real work, Go to get a shovel. But this is not hard work. Answer the phone. I get it. I mean, this is the stuff that goes on inside my head. So I understand. But yeah, just, you know, you're going to find the rest of the team is going to fall in love with your quiet, gentle strength where you take action. You're a man of action. And we have a set of standards and we all adhere to those standards. I do, and you do. And you do. And you do. And we do. And if you're a we, this is how we are going to do it. And I'm really sorry. We're down right now. I'll get somebody in here as quick as I can. The rest of you, come on, let's join hands and let's pick this up. Let's not miss a beat. And here's the thing. They won't cause the calories they're burning. Watching him not working right now will be used to get new customers.

[Alan]

Well, you didn't give me an easy solution, Dave, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I did. I gave you the Easiest possible solution. It's gonna be quick and painless. Takes about 10 minutes and he's gone. Sit down gently first thing in the morning and go, dude, this ain't working. I've begged you and I can't beg you. Here's the thing. I always get a question when I'm doing Entree leadership. How do you motivate people? You don't. You hire motivated people and you get out of their way. But I am not going to light wet wood. I had one guy go, I'm burn out. I'm good. That dude, that's impossible. You were never on fire and you know that. That's exactly where we are. And you know, I'm sorry. I wish I could fix this guy. You wish you could fix this guy. But one of the things you're going to learn in leadership is you're not responsible for other people's activities. All you're responsible for is managing them. You can't make them care. You can't make them smile and be happy. You can't make them push. That's an internal decision, not an external decision. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Day from Andrew in Minnesota. As a new cfo, I'm learning that I need to grow my confidence in making decisions. Previously, my roles have been very customer focused or admin heavy, like a cat, where the right answer is always yes or find a solution. However, I know as a leader, the answer sometimes has to be no. How do I learn to build that skill and not come across as a jerk. You have any advice for mentors, books, training or education that would help me in this area? And as I grow, how do I remain humble so that confidence or ego doesn't get in the way or lead to bad decision making? Well, confidence is not the opposite of humble. Arrogance is the opposite of humble. Competence and confidence are required to be a cfo because a CFO is an executive branch decision making role and you're supposed to be sitting with the president and the owner of the company making suggestions in the financial arena, not merely executing the accounting statements. And so there's nothing about that, that's a jerk. And so smiling is a good start. Even if you're delivering bad news, just smile while you're doing it and go, I'm sorry guys, this isn't working and we're smiling and we have to do something different here. And you know, the answer is no, we don't have the money to do that. If you got any better ideas, talk to me about it. But I don't see how we can do it. And it's just a no. I mean, one of the most powerful words in the English language that will set you free is the word no. But it doesn't have to be delivered at the top of your lungs or laced with cuss words. It can just simply be a gentle, quiet smile. And no. I wish we could, but we can't. We don't have the money, we don't have the bandwidth, we don't have the whatever. We can't be everything. Only God is everything and we're not Him. And so, you know, in terms of, I don't know, other than the Bible, I don't know what teaches you to people skills necessarily that would give you the confidence to say no with a quiet, gentle spirit based in strength. And Warren Wiersbe says meekness is not weakness, it's power under control. And so that's what you need as a cfo, is this gentle confidence. And if you're good at your job and your answer is based in the way you see the facts, just say here are the facts. And based on those facts, I think the answer is no, I don't think we can do it. What do you think? And that could be talking to your owner or it could be talking to a subordinate, it could be talking to one of the other departments and go, and you know, hey, if you think it's different, let's talk about it. But I don't see how we can do it, and here's why. One of the things we've done around here is we're always training up the next layer of leaders. Even if someone's not in a leadership role, I want them to know how a decision was made and why a decision was made so that the next time they are faced with that same decision, they understand the decision making framework, the values and the principles that we use to make that call that way. And so you can do a little teaching with your no, no, I don't think we can do that. Here's why. In and this is what's bothering me about that. If you can bring me some evidence of something I don't understand, that can help me make that a yes, I don't mind. But right now I think it's a no and you show me otherwise, or next time you're getting ready to face this exact same thing. At least you have the same framework to make the decision because I just explained it to you. And so you lay out why something happens and how something happens as a method of training. But it's also a gentle method of delivering a no. A good way to communicate. But increasing your verbal skills and your communication, your patience, compassion with people, can allow you to have that gentle calmness and strength that sometimes just says we can't work together, or sometimes it says it's as simple as I've got to teach you how we got here and that'll alleviate their frustration. But if someone hears a reasonable explanation for something and they can't get their head around that, you got other issues. Or they get all emotional and refuse to get their head around the logic of how you're getting to a place, then you got other issues. You're dealing with a child in your team, and so that's not on you, then that's on their lack of confidence. And so I think the more competent you are at the job, in other words, your decision making paradigm, how you're making suggestions, how you're executing different parts of the CFO role, is vital to being able to make a calm, gentle, spirited no with an explanation why for training purposes, stick and that'll put you right where you need to be. That's exactly how that works. So that's what you'll do in any executive role, but really in any role inside the organization, your competence gives you confidence and that keeps you from entering the land of jerk. Most of the time, jerk comes from insecurity. This is the Entree Leadership podcast. Does leading your team feel like herding cats Even if your business is winning financially, a misaligned team will create new fires for you to put out every week. But with Entree Leadership Elite, you'll align your team and hold them accountable so you can stop herding cats and start scaling your business. To join elite, go to entreeleadership.com elite or just click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. If you want to help us out, we would appreciate the help. Click the follow button, the subscribe button, the share button and share the show. Follow it, share it like it, leave a five star review, all of that. It really helps us with the algorithms on the various platforms. We definitely appreciate it. So please subscribe, please follow. I think you're our only marketing hope so. Thanks for the help with that. All right. Kyle is in New Haven, Connecticut. Hi, Kyle, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi.

[Alan]

Good.

[Caller]

Dave, thanks for having me on. I own an event staffing company. Right. And I have about 200 part time employees and a full time employee and we do about 2.1 million in revenue annually. And my question for you, Dave, and thank you so much for helping me out is how do I go about creating a marketing strategy with a responsible budget?

[Dave Ramsey]

How have you gotten the business that you've gotten?

[Caller]

Knocking down doors and cold calling and just tenacity, I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love your marketing strategy.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it that you're wanting to do that you're not doing?

[Caller]

Well, so you know, I have financial goals surrounding.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, marketing. Marketing. What is it? What marketing is it what marketing is it that you're wanting to do that you're not doing?

[Caller]

Digital marketing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Such as?

[Caller]

Such as SEO. Right. Bringing my website up to the front page of Google for certain search terms. Just getting more eyes on us. Our competitors tend to have more visibility and so we have competitors that can't come close to the quality of the product that we have, but they're more visible online. And I lose a lot of what I think is potential business that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because they don't find you.

[Caller]

Exactly. Because they don't find me first. And once you get in with an event staffing partner, people are. People just don't like to switch. They don't like to lose the familiarity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, unless something goes wrong. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. All right, so what's your. How good your website?

[Caller]

It's fine. I mean, it looks nice, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I come to it, does it make me want to buy?

[Caller]

I think so. I wrote all the copy myself. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so if people find the website, the visuals are. The visuals are Strong, you know, as.

[Caller]

Far as I know. Right. I'm not an expert in any of those things, but from my perception, it is strong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so your perception is, is that the website is not the broken link, it's that they never get there.

[Caller]

Yes, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So your marketing strategy that you could expand on would be buying some Google words in your neighborhood. And so if you bought event marketing or event staffing in your neighborhood, what would that cost? And look up, you know, work with Google on that. They sell Google keywords. Right? You know how to do that?

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And the same thing on Facebook. You can do Facebook advertising that retargets local. You can do geotargeting, meaning drop ads into people's Facebook pages in the market that you're in. Facebook's probably not as good for you as Google is because you're a B2B. You're not marketing to consumers. Facebook's a better consumer outlet, as you might guess, because who's on Facebook? It's not businesses looking to staff. LinkedIn might be good for you.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. LinkedIn can I guess, do ads?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can do again, you can do force placed ads based on keywords and there's all kinds of processes you can use with both of those. So what was your net on your 2.1?

[Caller]

About 370.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. If I'm in your shoes, I'm gonna hire somebody for the 50 to 70 range. That is a world class digital marketer.

[Caller]

You know, it's funny you mentioned that, Dave, because I have been like considering reaching out and hiring a sales slash marketing person and I even have a couple candidates in mind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now sales and digital marketing are way different.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sales is analog, shaking hands, eyeball to eyeball, human interaction. Digital marketers don't know how to do that.

[Caller]

Right. So you're saying these, these positions, like I should find maybe people that are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Specialized in either or outsource or outsource the digital part, digital marketing, and get a freelancer and that just does a contract basis. But the problem you've got is you've got to really spend some time picking this person as if you're going to outsource it as if you were hiring them full time. I want you to really understand and make sure they are competent. Because here's the thing, everyone in their 20s, up to 35 years old, has grown up with a magic wand in their hand and they all think they're digital marketers. There's not a 27 year old on the planet that doesn't think they know something about SEO. Okay. They just do. It's native to them and they actually do know something about it. But that's different than being an expert on, you know, laying out a digital campaign with Google keywords and a LinkedIn strategy, which is what you and I are talking about. I don't actually know how to do those things, but I got a whole bunch of people on our team that do know how to do them. And so that's what you're interviewing for is, did I do a website once that worked while I lived in my mother's basement? Or am I an actual digital expert?

[Caller]

Sure. And so, you know, if I'm choosing between a person to do this full time versus, like, outsourcing it, you got.

[Dave Ramsey]

To interview for what I was talking about either way.

[Caller]

Right, of course. That makes sense. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because here's the problem. Too many times at your stage of business, folks that we're coaching, and it actually never happened to me because the Internet didn't exist when I was at your stage. But what we're finding is they know they need to do this and someone comes in and convinces the guy with a little bit of smoke and mirrors you, the guy, that they can do anything and they're the genie in a bottle. And all of a sudden you drop 20 grand on a marketing contract with a freelance guy and find out later that he can't find his butt with both hands. And it's just, you know, it's a problem. And so you've really got to not just be the only sale they make. I always laugh and say, sometimes I think we hired a salesperson. The only sale they made was when we hired them. But so you really gotta get down in the weeds with them and have them give you some proof, text, give me some actual examples of when they did this. Show me how this works. I'm not gonna go do it. I don't wanna go do it. That's why I'm talking to you. But show me how a Google AdWords strategy work. Show me what a LinkedIn strategy would look like in this situation. Let's start to unpack it and show me you know how to do it. And then set some key things that are contingent upon your payment that I have to hit these key points. Otherwise we're not just giving you money because you said you knew how to do marketing. That's not happening. So anyway, we're going to dig into it as if we were hiring them to be an employee. And you might want to hire them to be an employee. I don't know. You're going to have to at some point because this digital marketing world requires a constant pressure and you're going to start learning words like ROI and roas and conversion rates and all these things on these words because you can overpay for these stinking words. You can overpay for these positions on Facebook really easily because they're not afraid to overcharge you. I can promise that. So you've really got to manage this like you're scared to death that you don't know what you're doing because you're scared to death because you don't know what you're doing and you're looking over their shoulder and you're micromanaging and you're learning about it from them. I want to know what they're doing every step of the way if I'm you, so that it actually gets done. Because we don't want to fool with all this and the only thing we do is spend money and nothing happened because marketing that works makes you more than it costs you. It's free. So a marketing strategy that works, that's where it leaves you. You're going to enjoy being there. That's the plan. So good stuff, man. Good stuff. I think you're at a cool place and I think you definitely are going to need some help there one way or another, depending on how you choose to staff it. Folks, remember, better a worry warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders. So take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Andre Leadership Podcast.