When Grandpa Dies, I Get the Business (Should I Wait?)

Summary

Detailed Summary of "When Grandpa Dies, I Get the Business (Should I Wait?)" – The EntreLeadership Podcast

Release Date: May 26, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey
Podcast: The EntreLeadership Podcast by Ramsey Network

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Overview

In this episode of The EntreLeadership Podcast, host Dave Ramsey addresses real-life business and leadership challenges faced by listeners. The primary discussion revolves around succession planning in family-owned businesses, with insights into handling generational transitions, operational conflicts, and strategic growth. Additionally, the episode delves into topics like optimizing company assets and planning for business legacy.

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Caller 1: James – Succession and Growth Challenges in a Family Stone Quarry Business

Timestamp: [00:50] to [11:26]

Background: James, the operations manager of his family's stone quarry business in Scranton, Pennsylvania, seeks advice on transitioning ownership after his grandfather's passing. The business currently generates approximately $4-5 million in revenue with 20 full-time employees. James handles 95% of day-to-day operations, while his 82-year-old grandfather remains actively involved.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Ownership Structure and Succession Plan:

   • The business is wholly owned by James's grandfather, with James slated to inherit 100% upon his passing, as per the will.
   • James's brother is set to receive a portion of the business in the form of equipment for a separate division.

2. Conflict Over Business Growth:

   • James aims to expand into contract crushing and mobile services, which his grandfather prefers to keep local.
   • The differing visions for growth have led to tensions within the leadership team.

3. Dave Ramsey's Advice:

   • Assert Leadership: Ramsey emphasizes that James holds significant authority in the current setup and should clarify the boundaries of decision-making.
   • Communicate with the Grandfather: He advises James to engage in meaningful conversations with his grandfather to understand his reservations and to explain his growth strategies.
   • Plan for the Future: Ramsey suggests preparing for eventual leadership transition by gradually implementing changes and ensuring that the grandfather's influence diminishes as he approaches the end of his tenure.

Notable Quotes:

• James: "We have started like our leadership team and then as far as employees as well." [03:04]
• Dave Ramsey: "Why does he have a say in what you're doing organizationally with what's gonna be yours?" [04:11]
• Dave Ramsey: "You just continue to talk to him, learn from him. Why does he not want to go wider?" [07:08]

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Caller 2: Julia – Optimizing Company-Owned Vehicles

Timestamp: [13:30] to [20:30]

Background: Julia, a business owner from Dallas, Texas, runs a custom cabinet business generating $7.8 million in revenue with 48 employees. She inquires about the process and wisdom of moving company-owned vehicles out of the business and leasing them back.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Leasing Vehicles for Insurance Purposes:

   • Julia considers whether transferring vehicle ownership to another entity and leasing them back could benefit her insurance strategy.

2. Dave Ramsey's Response:

   • Insurance Implications: Ramsey explains that leasing vehicles does not alter the risk profile for insurance purposes since the usage remains unchanged.
   • Tax Considerations: He warns against believing that such moves offer tax advantages, likening it to "putting quarters in a payphone"—fundamentally ineffective.
   • Practical Advice: Emphasizes focusing on legitimate financial strategies rather than dubious internet-sourced tactics.

Notable Quotes:

• Julia: "I have heard in the past about putting the vehicles under another company completely and then leasing those." [14:25]
• Dave Ramsey: "It's the usage that matters for the insurance purposes." [14:37]
• Dave Ramsey: "Quit looking for a magic bean. Quit looking for things." [18:00]

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Caller 3: Susan – Legacy Planning for a Veterinary Practice

Timestamp: [20:30] to [32:00]

Background: Susan, a 60-year-old veterinarian from Raleigh, North Carolina, owns a private practice grossing $1.6 million with seven full-time and two part-time employees. She seeks guidance on planning the legacy phase of her business, specifically regarding leaving the practice to her two sons, who are not in the veterinary profession.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Transitioning Ownership:

   • Susan wants to ensure a smooth transition of her practice to her sons, who may either continue the business by hiring a veterinarian or sell it.
   • She is concerned about unexpected events and wants a robust plan in place without concrete retirement intentions.

2. Dave Ramsey's Recommendations:

   • Gradual Transition: Ramsey advises a phased approach, gradually introducing a successor or bench depth to manage operations alongside Susan.
   • Evaluation of Successors: Emphasizes the importance of assessing competency and interest rather than adhering to a strict timeline.
   • Consider Selling: Suggests selling the practice before it diminishes in value due to the absence of a veterinarian, potentially maximizing the return from the asset.

3. Maximizing Business Value:

   • Ramsey highlights the benefits of selling the business while it's still profitable and operational under Susan's management, rather than leaving it to decay after her passing.

Notable Quotes:

• Susan: "I don't want to be the one that falls over backwards into the grave and throws my keys and hopes somebody catches it." [21:00]
• Dave Ramsey: "Your brother does not get a vote in your business. He gets a vote in his business, but that's the only one." [Multiple Instances]
• Dave Ramsey: "This is the least you're gonna get for it." [28:57]

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Caller 4: Chris – Investing an Emergency Fund

Timestamp: [32:00] to [34:39]

Background: Chris, from Dallas, Texas, owns an electronic security system company with six team members and generated $935,000 in revenue last year. Having fully funded his emergency reserve of $100,000, he seeks advice on whether to keep this fund in a money market account or invest it more aggressively.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Investment Options for Emergency Funds:

   • Chris contemplates moving part of his emergency fund into higher-yielding investments versus maintaining it in low-risk accounts.

2. Dave Ramsey's Suggestions:

   • Diversified Approach: Recommends splitting the emergency fund between a high-yield savings account, S&P 500 index funds, and other low-risk investment vehicles.
   • Risk Management: Advises understanding the potential risks and returns, emphasizing that some exposure to the stock market can yield higher returns without jeopardizing the entire fund.
   • Advanced Strategies: Mentions options like European floats for higher returns with minimal risk, encouraging consultation with a private banker for tailored solutions.

3. Personal Experience:

   • Ramsey shares his own strategy of allocating retained earnings between market investments and low-risk floats, highlighting the importance of balancing growth with security.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: "It's like having a payphone in your house and you put the quarters in, steal your money." [34:10]
• Dave Ramsey: "So there's three things you can do that you can consider..." [32:54]
• Dave Ramsey: "A million bucks. Well done. You did it." [34:39]

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey provides pragmatic and experience-based advice to entrepreneurs facing complex business and leadership dilemmas. By addressing succession planning, asset optimization, legacy strategies, and financial management, Ramsey empowers business leaders to make informed decisions that align with their long-term goals and values.

Final Notable Quote:

• Dave Ramsey: "Remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high-quality leaders, so take courage and lead." [Closing Remarks]

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for small business owners navigating the intricacies of leadership transitions, strategic growth, and financial stewardship, offering actionable insights grounded in over three decades of entrepreneurial expertise.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entree leadership podcast where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you want to submit a question, go to entreeleadership.com ask or leave us a voicemail at 844-944-1070. We'll make you a caller here on the show. That's 844-944-1070. James is in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Hi, James, how are you?

[James]

Good. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[James]

So my question today is trying to grow the business and opinions differ. When do you decide when to stay or when to leave? I'm the operations manager for my family's stone quarry business. We have about 20 full time team members when we bring in about 4 to 5 million in revenue.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[James]

33.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and who's still there?

[James]

Your dad, Grandfather? Actually kind of skipped the generation. My grandfather is 82. He still is involved. I do about 95% of the day to day decisions and decision making. He still comes to work, puts in about four or so hours every day. He likes to stay active in the business and stay working.

[Dave Ramsey]

He owns 100% of it.

[James]

Correct. We have two. We have two separate entities. One's a subsidiary of the other and he's 100% owner of both.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so when will you become the owner?

[James]

At the way it is set up now, at his, at his passing in the, in the will. That's how it's written. I would become 100% as a gift. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what is it you're wanting to do that he won't go along with while he's alive?

[James]

Not only just him, it also comes down to kind of others, other family members that are involved, kind of. We've started like our leadership team and then as far as employees as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Other family members working there that aren't going to become owners.

[James]

Yes. Well, my brother will get the way it is written, he gets some portion, some equipment to kind of continue a division as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, I'm, I'm confused. I thought a while ago you said you're getting the thing, so now your brother's getting part of it.

[James]

Yes, but it's written as just kind of equipment that comes out of it. We don't have a separate entity yet for the division that he. Because it's all, it's all under the One.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what would he be doing? Would he be competing with you at that point?

[James]

No, no, they're two separate. Two separate things that we would do. So we do dimensional stone and crushed stone, and he does kind of on the. On the dimensional stone side, making stone for patios and sidewalks and then more. So what I run is the. The actual mine as well as we do trucking, crush stone and cell stone for driveways.

[Dave Ramsey]

Grandpa's gonna set him up in the designer stone business and you're gonna run the rest of it.

[James]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to separate the business at that point. He'll have his own little business. They're going to give him some equipment to do that with.

[James]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

But why does that give him a say today?

[James]

Because we've. Because we're all one company now. It's not necessarily a say. It's my growth is looking into how to growth as far as different things we want to do as well as how to start leading. And being more organizational is kind of. Kind of where we differ.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who, you and your brother or you and your grandfather?

[James]

Brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your brother doesn't have a say. He's not gonna be running it.

[James]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's getting two trucks and gonna do stone over on the side. Why does he have a say in what you're doing organizationally with what's gonna be yours?

[James]

I was just saying, like, we try to be all on the same page as a leadership team right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, he's running something over there to the side that's going to be carved out. I mean, metaphorically and literally. Okay, Right.

[James]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why does he have a voice in this? I don't understand. I mean, his thing is over to the side. Just get the heck out of the way and let me run this. I'm confused.

[James]

And then as far as kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who gave him that power? Your grandfather or, you know.

[James]

I guess, kind of. He hasn't really. I guess. I don't. I mean, it really. No one. I get. He's not saying we can't. It's just kind of the differentiating on more. So the organizational is the issue there as far as growing. The different divisions we. Different portions we markets we want to get into as kind of my grandfather.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what market is it that you're wanting to get into with your portion that your grandfather doesn't want to do?

[James]

It's called contract crossing. Where we travel and go to other. Other locations. Sites and other quarries, not just our own physical site.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay. And that's a way you could expand the business that you're going to receive.

[James]

Yeah. And we. We have just recently started with that and have been successful. We've increased. We've already done more than half of revenue. We brought in last year and increased our profit by 10% just by.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought you said he didn't want to do it.

[James]

Yeah, it's a thing we're trying out, and we're just not sure if we want to keep. Keep with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You said your grandfather didn't want to expand the business into the mobile crushing, and then you said we did it.

[James]

Yeah. If we. We did this as local, and it's kind of like our test run, but before we purchase more equipment, hire more employees, trying to decide if it's something we want to continue, because we would be expanding further out. Out of our area.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you would need to test it and make sure, even if your grandfather wasn't around, you're just running your own thing. You would test that idea and make sure it's profitable. Because it might. It might. You might look back on it and go, that was a stupid thing we tried to do. I've done a lot of stupid stuff over here that. That I thought was smart when I was doing it, but I figured out during the test that we didn't want to. You know, if you're losing 25 cents a watermelon, you don't get a bigger truck, Right?

[James]

Yeah, correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's, you know, so if the test. Did the test go well enough that it. That good business wisdom says to continue, or does it say it was a dumb idea?

[James]

No, so far it has. It has been very has.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's your grandfather's hang up with doing more of it?

[James]

Just. He doesn't like going outside of our area. He likes staying more local and would rather try to expand locally, but kind of the market's pretty well tapped out as far as in our area due to how rural it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. I think that you have a lot more power in this moment than you feel like you have. You're letting your brother's voice interfere in these discussions. And he doesn't need to be in these discussions. It's not his deal. He needs to be. Anything you're talking about expanding that's in his area, that he's gonna get the artisan stone business or the patio business or something that, sure, he should speak into that with what you're describ. But if he's trying to interfere in this other mobile stuff, he doesn't get a say. He doesn't get a vote in that. And so if you want to be part of the leadership team, that's fine, but your vote doesn't count on this because you're not going to be doing it in 10 years. Because I don't think we're going to be dealing with a 92 year old in the office. I might be wrong, but statistically we won't be. So now then, the grandfather is a different thing. And I think you just continue to talk to him, learn from him. Why does he not want to go wider? I mean, you're leaving this to me, Grandpa, and this is how I think we ought to do it. Explain to me when you're not here how you're thinking that. Because maybe I'm missing something. Teach me what it is I'm missing. What is it I'm not considering that you think that's causing that you're considering. Cause you've been doing this longer than I am and you're wiser than me. And so why would you say this other than you just don't wanna do it? That's not a you. And so maybe there's some, you know. Cause there's stuff around here. I've been doing this 35 years that I know in my little finger that's not gonna work because I've done 62 things like that before. But the new person with the idea doesn't necessarily have that experience. So I need to stop as the founder and explain to the new person why I'm thinking that, not just randomly, because I said no. And although the no might be the correct answer. So I think you gotta have those conversations with your grandpa. What you can learn from him while you can, while you've got him would be valuable and you pay him honor in the process. And that's also the correct way to challenge his question or his blockade. And then ultimately I'll just be. I don't know if the unkind is the right word or not, but he's 82. You're not going to be facing this for long. I mean, either he's going to be unable to be there every day or he's going to be in heaven. Right? I mean, that's a statistical thing. I don't mean that to be unkind, but that this is not like if he was 62 and vital. I mean, crap, you could have to deal with him for another 30 years. That's a different conversation. Okay, then we have a different, a much more combative conversation for you to get control of the thing that you're called to run. But waiting him out is not a bad option. But I also want to get in there and learn what I can from him. Why is it you don't want to go these other markets, Grandpa? What am I missing? Am I being too aggressive or are you being too calm about it? I think there's something here to go get. You grew a great business, and I want to walk in your shoes. I want to learn from you. So show me. And, you know, maybe he'll melt down a little bit on this. And then also just one more time, say it. Your brother does not get a vote in your business. He gets a vote in his business, but that's the only one. This is the Entree Podcast.

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[Dave Ramsey]

As a small business owner, it's your job to set expectations for each role in your company and make sure those expectations are met. But you can't hold your team accountable to something you didn't communicate. Our free. Did I mention it's free? Key Results Area template will help you set expectations and create role clarity for every member of your team. And and you better do this for every member of your team so you can feel confident that everyone is working on the right things to drive the business forward. Go to entreeleadership.com roleclarity to download the template for free and start setting clear expectations for your team. Julia's in Dallas, Texas. Hi Julia. Welcome to the Entree Leadership Podcast. What's up? Hello.

[Julia]

Thank you. My husband and I own Custom Cabinet Business and we have 48 team members. Our revenue last year was 7.8 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Julia]

My question. Thank you. My question is, what is the process to move company owned vehicles out of the company and then lease them back to the company?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you do that?

[Julia]

How do I. For insurance purposes. Just wanting to know if this is a wise decision.

[Dave Ramsey]

If there were, it won't help you with insurance.

[Julia]

It won't. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because the company's still using the vehicle.

[Julia]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the risk is that you've got employees driving company vehicles, whether they're leased or whether they're owned by insurance is exactly the same.

[Julia]

Okay. All right. I have heard in the past about putting the vehicles under another company completely and then leasing those.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but. But when you do the act of leasing them back, they're no longer in control of the other company. And so, you know, you're, you're. Just. Because you're. The. The ownership doesn't matter. It's the usage that matters for the insurance purposes. And so how's. How's the vehicle being used? Is it used in a high risk scenario? Then you're going to get an insurance that's high risk scenario regardless of whether it's leased or owned. And so it's the use of the vehicle and who's driving it and you know, what the driving records are and those kinds of things. And so no, it's. I mean, if you got a bunch of 18 wheelers running down the road, you got 18 wheelers running down the road. Doesn't really matter whether they're leased or owned. You've still got to cover them. And they still got exactly the same risk of crashing into something based on the guy driving it or the gal driving it. It's exactly the same. Same thing's true with your fleet for delivering your wonderful custom cabinets. But now you're not dodging anything here. And what you've got is somebody that's. That sounds like some kind of bass ackwards Internet article or something that you got a hold of there. Because in the real world, we don't do stuff like that. I mean, you know, I do make sure that I don't own anything anymore in terms of risk management, but that's not for insurance purposes. That's not how we go at it. And so. And then the other thing, and Julia, you're not asking this, but it brings up the same question of. I've had people that didn't bother to do the math that somehow thought they were saving on Taxes to buy the vehicles personally and then lease them to the company. You're not saving on taxes because when you lease them to the company, the company pays you the lease you paid yourself. So it still shows up on your income tax. Either way, you know, the company gets the expense, but you get the income. So you're just swapping dollars back and forth. It's like having a payphone in your house and you put the quarters in, steal your money. I mean, you know, that's how it's the same exact process. And it doesn't. But that's not what Julia's asking. But some people have like, oh, I heard I could save on taxes if I lease my cars from my company. And no, it's just. It's just a payphone in your house and you put the quarters in. You're gonna. You're gonna. You're gonna get the taxes coming or going. It's either gonna show up on your personal return, it's gonna show up on the LLC return, one of the two. Oh, and by the way, the LLC return goes straight up. Straight passes through to your personal return. That's how LLCs work. LLCs do not pay federal income tax. 100% pass through of loss or profit to your personal return. So you just. Nowhere in that. That's not what Julia was asking. But just for the rest of you, that. Cause I hear these. You hear these stupid Internet things. And it used to be a thousand years ago. Y' all remember there's a thing called cable TV back then? Yeah. And cable TV had stupid stuff that ran at night called infomercials and that kind of thing. And they would try to sell you get rich quick schemes. And they would go get a Colorado corporation. Call now for $500, we will sell you a kit to get a Colorado corporation. And you too can be in business for yourself. You're missing out on all these wonderful write offs. No, you're not. You don't get extra write offs for having a Colorado corporation. Just because pots legal there doesn't make it work. It just. That's not. It's not. It's not a magic pill, boys and girls. You can get gummies there, but you can't get extra write offs there. So. Man, that's just. It's not any harder than that, y' all. So there's. Quit looking for a magic bean. Quit looking for things. And I'm not again. Joey, I'm not fussing at you. I just got off on a tangent because it reminded me of all that stuff. The other one was a Delaware corporation. A Colorado or a Delaware corporation. And why the crap? You'd want a Delaware, but it was more liberal tax law or more liberal legal laws on liability. Liability laws would be the Delaware reason. But there's still no tax difference. And everybody, this thing was like, you can write off everything. You can write off your dog food. No, you can't. No, you can't. Not unless you're in the kennel business. Do you write off dog food? I mean, that's the only time the rest of us just have to feed the puppy. Okay. That's just how it works. So there we go. Thanks, Julia. Good question. Interesting question. I hadn't heard that kind of thing in a while. Glad you brought it to us. On the Entree Leadership Podcast. I've been running a business for over 30 years and technology has changed a lot. Now the hot topic is AI. And I understand it might be intimidating, but like, like a lot of other tech that took some getting used to, AI is just a tool to help us work faster and smarter. So you'd better get on board, otherwise you're going to get left behind. Netsuite by Oracle offers AI powered tools that help small businesses improve efficiency and make smarter decisions by bringing all major business processes into one platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth for the real time data you need to take advantage of opportunities. Then you can forecast better, scale more efficiently and streamline manual tasks that take too many resources away from what your business actually does. So join the more than 41,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions the Trust NetSuite to help tackle some of their biggest challenges. And right now you can download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's [e-mail] Ramsey Susan is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Susan, welcome to the Entree Leadership Podcast. What's up? Hi there.

[Susan]

I'm a veterinarian and I own a private practice. I grossed 1.6 million last year and I've got seven full time and two part time employees. And my questions, yeah, my questions are regarding planning myself, my practice for the legacy phase. I've got specific questions about that. Okay, so I'm 60 and I don't have any plans to retire anytime soon. I really like what I do and I'm healthy and my business is going well. I. I am the only practitioner here and I'm not sure how to go into the legacy phase. I've listened to your podcast a lot And I don't want to be the one that falls over backwards into the grave and throws my keys and hopes somebody catches it. But I'm not sure how to plan when I'm not planning my retirement. I have two sons, 22 and 24 years old. Neither are in the, in this profession. I do plan to leave the business to them, which that could mean either they could choose to continue to own it and hire a veterinarian, or they could choose to sell it. But I don't want to just leave it kind of randomly do what you want to when I'm dead. So if I'm going to, if I'm going to continue to practice and I don't have immediate plans to retire, maybe I could go 10 or 15 more years, I think. But I realize I could die at any point if I die sooner than what I think. And I, I'm just not sure how to leave it for them so that it's something that they could manage.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not aware we work with a lot of veterinarians across the country and I'm not aware of absentee owners that the veterinarian and the staff all work for them. That's an unusual model, unless it's a corporate thing of some kind. But individual standalone stores where your two sons own it and they hire a vet and the vet runs the business for them that they own. That would be a pretty unusual happening, wouldn't it?

[Susan]

Well, until last year, that was not even an option. You had to be a veterinarian in order to owe the practice. But that has changed. And so now non veterinarians are able to, to own the business from a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Legal standpoint, but from a practical standpoint, there's not a lot of times that they do this. I mean, you'd be much better off to bring in a vet in the next few years that you train up. That buys it from you as you, you know, gradually, as you, as you approach retirement, it doesn't have to be in one fell swoop, but you can say, okay, I'm going to bring someone in because. And in 10 years or 15 years, you will be the owner of it. And, you know, we'll work that out over time how we're going to do that and put somebody in the, you know, have some bench depth, so to speak, that'd be one way to do it. And then, you know, whatever you get for it would just be in money wise would be in your estate for your sons, because I don't hear them itching to run this Thing, it's just an asset that you have built because of your profession. And it's not like their dream in any way. They're probably going to sell it, right?

[Susan]

I would think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

So sell it for them before you die.

[Susan]

Well, and if I don't know when I'm going to die, then, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re not going to be working when you're 92.

[Susan]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So somewhere between now and then we've got a gradual process and we back out from there and go, okay. And you know, you can set a timeline that's based on, you know, and right now you could say, I don't know, it's going to be between 10 and 20 years. And as we approach the 10 year mark, I'll be able to nail it down a lot closer for your bench depth person, the person that's coming in to buy it. Because I got to tell you, if you come out of vet school right now and you got vet school loans and you don't need to be buying a vet practice for another four, you know, another million dollars, right. So it might, it might be good for a young vet to come in, get their loans paid off while they're working there. Y' all expand the size of the practice slightly and then let the profits from some of the profits from the practice and let some of their income be used to buy you out. I think you could structure something like that over time. And it doesn't have to be, you don't have to today go at 72, I'm quitting. You don't have to nail it down that precise, but you do need to start to develop a strategy that you can ease into.

[Susan]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when we started working on ours, I was 48 and my son was your son's age. They were in the early, he was in his early 20s and 16 years ago. And so we said, you know, if and when he shows competency and interest, we'll start moving him into the president's role at Ramsey. And you know, we didn't know when that was going to be exactly, but we knew it would be out there a while, you know, 10, 15 years. And it turned out it was about, about 14 years because he's now been in that seat for about three and a half years now, 16 years ago. So, but we didn't know that date. When we started. We, we, we stage gated the decision based on competency, not based on a calendar. You see what I'm saying? And you could do the same thing with someone coming up behind you that you also have a plan for them to buy you out at some point. And you know, they can go get a bank loan or you can owner finance the buyout or you can, and they can give you all the profits for a certain number of years until you get your money out, which is a great way for you to do it. But you go, okay, for today, we're going to move towards that. And as you get competent and, and as I get less interested in working every single day and want to do some traveling or I want to do some whatever, then you'll be there because I'm down to working four days a week. I don't work Fridays anymore. And, and when I started, when Daniel moved into that role, we were 50. 50 and now we're about 80, 20 on the operations. So we're gradually moving it out, but there's not a set time when that other 20%. I'm just, we haven't said, okay on this date I'm going to quit being the CEO and I'm only going to be a personality, which is my retirement plan. Okay. But we don't have a set date. It's just kind of how we feel about it. And so we'll get there sometime in the next 10 years, you know, and, and we'll, we're both fine with that. And if there's a. Any moment we're not both fine with that. We talk about it. So that keeps you, if you've got a little bit of a floating thing like that, Susan, it keeps you from feeling trapped by the plan that you made, which is what you're trying to avoid. I think I heard.

[Susan]

Yes, I really would like to continue to practice and I, I do have some concern about bringing in another veterinarian and just the ability for the practice to afford that. You know, that's why I've been a solo practitioner. I do have, I do have one contract veterinarian who comes in usually one day a week, maybe two days a week occasionally. But it's just on as needed to give me some time to do just management. But to have someone come in who's another 40 hour or 50 hour veterinarian.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'D have to expand your business. Yeah. Consider it. Yeah. And I don't know if you got them off market to do that. That's something I can't decide. The other option, and I'm not as big a fan of this just because it's kind of rubs me the wrong way as an entrepreneur, but there's a lot of vet Practices and dental practices are selling out to corporate now, which I'm really.

[Susan]

I think I would stop working before I did that. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think, I think, you know. Well, I'm just saying that can be your exit. It doesn't have to be today, but 10 years from now when you're 70, it could be your exit and you turn the asset into money. Because if you do it while you're alive and still standing in the practice, you're going to get a lot more for it than the two boys are going to get for it with no vet present.

[Susan]

That's true, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I want you to maximize the asset either by putting somebody on the bench at some point in the next decade or considering the grotesque idea of selling out. But I mean, I've got some friends that ran a large vet operation here for years and I talked to them the day and they, they got serious bank and worked, they worked two more years after doing that for the corporate guys. But they got a huge check and, but, and that was their exit strategy. And they're, you know, they're slow, you know, they're probably approaching 70 now right now. And so they're. But anyway, that, that's, I've seen that happen and I'm not, I mean, I, it's your asset. You get to do with it what you want to do with it. And I don't think it's immoral to do that. It's just I, I like the idea of keeping things locally owned and all that kind of junk when I can. But, but. So my first choice probably would be bench depth conversion thing and my last choice would be some kind of corporate sale or selling to just the other local guy or gal that's there in the area and let them double the size of their practice as your exit strategy. When you do finally reach the point not at death, but at just, you know, I want, I do want to slow down. I only want to work two days a week and I'm going to sell this thing out and work for the other guy for two days a week, that kind of thing. I don't know you got to decide all that. But you do need to start thinking about a plan. And honestly, turning it over to them is probably. At death only is the least you're gonna get for it. That's the least you're gonna get for it. So I'm probably gonna try to do something other than that. But you, your deal, you can do whatever you want. None of those are bad answers. It's just talking it through with you. So there we go. When your team is unclear on where the business is headed, that's on you as the business owner. It's your job to create clarity and alignment for your team, so you're all headed in the same direction. That's why we're launching a free live challenge, transform your team in five days, June 2nd through the 6th, where you'll learn and implement the tactical ways to keep your team on the same page and hold them accountable so you can grow your business together. Sign up [e-mail] challenge. Thanks for being with us. I'm Dave Ramsey. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast, a podcast for small business by small business. If you're looking for some kind of corporate leadership theory, think tank or whatever, you're in the wrong freaking place. We don't do that here. What we do here is real talk for real people, because I do this stuff every day helping people, and I run this business, this thing called Ramsey. And so that's what we're here to talk about, is you and help you guys out. Chris is with us in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Chris. How are you doing?

[Chris]

Well, thanks. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Chris]

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I own and operate an electronic security system company here in DFW. We serve residential and commercial clients. We have six team members, including myself, and we did 935,000 top line last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Chris]

Following your. Thank you. Following your principles. We've got that emergency fund finally fully funded, so feel good about that. And just looking to another point of it is to be there in case of emergencies, but I would also like to maximize the return on it as best as possible. So I was recently kind of debating whether to do a money market account or invested a little bit more aggressively and wanted to get your opinion.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in it?

[Chris]

Roughly 100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. All right. I mean, there's three things you can do that you can consider just simply moving some of it into a high yield savings account, which, as of this taping, is not really high yield. It's more low yield. Yeah, you're making, you know, you're making 3% or something on it, and, you know, that's better than sitting and checking. And so you could do that. The second thing you can do is you could decide, all right, I'm willing to take a risk with some of this money and just move some of it into, like, an S&P 500 index fund. And there's nothing wrong with doing that, too. I've done some of that. And. But the thing is, it can go down and it can go up. So, I mean, if you got 50,000 in there and the S&P goes down 10%, you lost five grand. It doesn't kill you. Okay, but the S and P, you know, in 23. In 2023, the S&P went up 26 or 20, 26%, and in 24, it went up 23%. So if you'd had that money sitting over there, you'd have made some good money on it in those two years. In 25, we've had some issues with Trump tariffs and other things that the S and P has gone a little bit bonkers. And you could have lost money, but you wouldn't have lost a lot. It would have been, you know, 5 or 10% or something, but it wouldn't have killed you. But that's. You're letting some of that kind of ride the roller coaster in order. And the trade off of the roller coaster is you might make 10, 15% on your money instead of three. So you might make five grand instead of what, 300 bucks, you know, or something. Right?

[James]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

On that 50 grand. So that's the trade off. And I've done some of that. And if I quantify the actual risk, like, okay, if the 50 grand goes in half, which is. Wouldn't ever do. That's like a horrible scenario. I'm still okay. You know, it's not ideal, but I'm still okay, so I don't have to freak out. So, you know, it didn't put me out of business. It didn't put us at risk. We don't have the whole thing in there. We've got half of it in there, that kind of thing. So that's the way we played that through the third thing we've done. And actually, we do some of what I just talked about, and we also do a float and talk to your banker. You ought to be talking at your stage. You ought to be able to talk to the private banking area and not just the teller window, and say, we want to look at something like a European float, where you're moving the money out of your account. They move your money out by computer, by algorithm every night, and it rides a European float or something else, and you can probably get 6% on it then something like that. Okay, but. And there's little to no risk on that. And it's basically, it's. It's a weird little formula that they, they pretend like all the money went out of your account at 5pm it didn't actually. And they run the calculation as if it's sitting on someone else's books until 5am and it's an overnight float. And so. Or you can do it a little bit longer if you want to do that. But the private banker ought to be able to describe that to you and what risks there are. It shouldn't, should be minimal risk, but it's a little bit better rate of return than a simple high yield savings account. And it's nowhere near the risk nor the return that the mutual fund idea or the index fund idea that I laid out there. So we're sitting at the stage now that we've got tens of millions in retained earnings. And so I'm doing both of those things. I've got a chunk of it overriding the market because I can afford to do that. And I got a chunk of it on the, and I got most of it on that float. I don't have any in high yield savings. Well, virtually any and percentage wise. So that, you know, just the further you get into it, the more money's involved, the more risk you can afford to take without being crazy, without putting the business at risk or the concept of retained earnings at risk. So very, very, very good question. I'm proud of you, man. A million bucks. Well done. You did it. You got a million dollar business in America. Great. I mean, a free enterprise system, man. It's just awesome. Very cool stuff. Hey guys, Good stuff. Remember, better a wary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast.