Why No Business Is Better Than Bad Business

Summary

Episode Summary: "Why No Business Is Better Than Bad Business" | The EntreLeadership Podcast

In this compelling episode of The EntreLeadership Podcast, host Dave Ramsey delves into the crucial topic of maintaining business integrity by avoiding detrimental business relationships. Through real-life calls from small business leaders, Ramsey offers seasoned advice on navigating challenging contractual agreements, hiring practices, financial management, and fostering respectful change within family businesses. Below is a detailed summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during the episode.

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1. Navigating Unfavorable Contracts

Caller: Daniel from Phoenix, a landscape contractor with $14 million in revenue and 85 employees.

Issue: Daniel faces challenges with clients insisting on signing heavily biased contracts that favor them. His attempts to redline these contracts have led to client objections and loss of business, as clients prefer subcontractors who comply without negotiations.

Key Insights:

• Risk Management Over Lost Business: Ramsey emphasizes that walking away from bad business is preferable to compromising on crucial contractual terms. He states, “No business is better than bad business” (02:07).

• Long-Term Perspective: While it may feel like lost business in the short term, Ramsey reassures that avoiding risky agreements protects the business from potential future liabilities and damages.

Notable Quote:

"No business is better than bad business." — Dave Ramsey (02:07)

Conclusion: Daniel is encouraged to continue standing firm on essential contract terms to manage risks effectively, even if it results in immediate business loss. Ramsey underscores the importance of prioritizing business integrity and long-term sustainability over short-term gains.

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2. Hiring Qualified and High-Character Employees

Caller: Tyler from New Hampshire, operating a small electrical contracting business that grew from $160k in 2023 to $1.1 million in 2024 but faced the need to fire two employees.

Issue: Tyler is struggling to find qualified electricians who are licensed and possess high character, addressing concerns like reliability and professionalism on the job.

Key Insights:

• Quality Over Quantity: Ramsey highlights the difficulty in finding top-tier employees, likening them to "thoroughbreds" versus "donkeys." He notes, “There’s a high percentage of doofuses in the population and a small percentage of winners” (10:06).

• Building a Positive Culture: By fostering a reputable company culture, similar to Chick-fil-A's, businesses can attract and retain high-quality employees. Ramsey advises, “Treating people right and everybody else pisses on them” (13:37).

• Slow Growth Strategy: If immediate hiring challenges arise, slowing down growth to focus on building a strong team is preferable to rapidly expanding with subpar employees.

Notable Quote:

"There’s a high percentage of doofuses in the population and a small percentage of winners." — Dave Ramsey (10:06)

Conclusion: Tyler is advised to prioritize creating an attractive workplace culture that honors and supports high-character employees. Ramsey encourages patience in hiring the right individuals to ensure long-term business success.

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3. Managing Business Finances Without a Formal Education

Caller: Bill from Nevada, co-owner of a martial arts studio seeking growth beyond steady revenue.

Issue: Bill and his wife lack formal business education and have been managing their business finances like personal ones, hindering potential growth.

Key Insights:

• Educational Alternatives: Ramsey suggests taking accounting classes at a local community college tailored for entrepreneurs instead of pursuing a full business degree. He states, “You don’t need a business degree” (18:29).

• Professional Assistance: Hiring a bookkeeper or CPA is recommended to establish a solid accounting system. Ramsey emphasizes, “Part of their job is to teach you” (18:29).

• Continuous Learning: Embracing personal growth and ongoing education is crucial for business owners to transition from accidental entrepreneurs to effective leaders.

Notable Quote:

"You don’t need a business degree and you know you may want to take an accounting class at the local community college." — Dave Ramsey (18:29)

Conclusion: Bill is encouraged to invest in specific business education and professional financial assistance to build a robust financial foundation. Ramsey underscores the importance of continuous learning and leveraging expert help to overcome business management challenges.

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4. Respectfully Suggesting Change in a Family Business

Caller: Scott from Cincinnati, senior technician in his family's residential HVAC company with six employees and $1.2 million in revenue.

Issue: Scott aims to honor his family's legacy while suggesting necessary changes to improve the business.

Key Insights:

• Exemplary Performance: Ramsey advises excelling in one’s role to earn the right to influence and suggest changes. He emphasizes, “You have to be like the best senior technician on the freaking planet” (26:16).

• Respectful Communication: Initiating conversations with honor and respect for the family legacy is crucial. Ramsey recommends, “Begin all conversations with honor” (28:33).

• Humility and Inquiry: Approaching discussions with humility and a willingness to learn fosters positive reception. He suggests framing suggestions as questions, “What am I missing?” (30:16).

Notable Quote:

"Begin all conversations with honor." — Dave Ramsey (28:33)

Conclusion: Scott is guided to leverage his expertise and approach change with utmost respect for his family's history. Ramsey highlights the significance of honoring legacy while proactively seeking improvements through respectful dialogue.

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Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey reinforces the principle that maintaining business integrity and fostering a positive, respectful environment are paramount for long-term success. Whether it's walking away from unfavorable contracts, hiring with discernment, managing finances wisely, or instigating respectful change within a family business, Ramsey's advice centers on sustainable and principled business practices.

Closing Quote:

"Better a weary warrior than a quivering critic." — Dave Ramsey

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for small business owners seeking guidance on building resilient and ethical businesses. Dave Ramsey's practical advice underscores the importance of making tough decisions that safeguard the business's integrity and future.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entree leadership podcast where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. With over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you, I actually make payroll, so I know what it's like. If you have a question and you want to ask on the show, well, just fill out the [e-mail] ask or call and leave us a voicemail. We'll get you on as a caller. The number is 844-944-1070. That's 844-944-10720. Daniel is in Phoenix. Hi, Daniel. How are you?

[Daniel]

Excellent. Thank you. I appreciate the call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Daniel]

Hey. I'm a landscape contractor with approximately 14 million in revenue, 85 employees, and work has been steady. But each contractor we do business with asks us to sign a contract that's incredibly biased in their favor. And when I review these contracts, I go through and redline a lot of things that I don't want to agree to. But lately, our clients are objecting fiercely to these red lines, and we have lost some business as a result. They'd much rather go deal with a subcontractor who will sign their contract without any red lines.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you ready? Taking dozens. What are you taking out?

[Daniel]

So there's things like pay when, get paid language, basically, which is we get paid when and if the owner gets paid by. Or when and if the owner pays the contractor. There's also liability. We can't hold the contractor liable for destroying our equipment or injuring personnel, even if they're 100% at fault. There's frequently language in there that prevents that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't sign either one of those things. I agree with you.

[Daniel]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

But, hey, bad business is. No business is better than bad business.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So good riddance.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because what's going to happen is, you know, here's what's going to happen. The contractor is going to screw up, and they're going to put your competitor out of business, not you, because you didn't go over there.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's just your reality. I mean, you have to choose some of these things, and some of the risk is not worth the business. I mean, there's two types of clients. You walk away from situations like this, and then the other one where the client's crazy.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They take up. They burn too many calories for the dollars they create. No, thank you.

[Daniel]

Yeah. So Just walk away from anybody that won't negotiate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, anybody that won't negotiate a reasonable situation. But I get, you know, I'm not going to pay you unless I get paid. Bull crap. You hired me.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're not liable for your misbehavior, which, by the way, doesn't work because you can't contract away liability. Liability is statutory, you know, meaning that it's the. It's the law. They're liable whether their contract says they are or not. If they tear up something. I mean, but either way, that's just, you know, you'd ask your attorney about that. I'm not a lawyer, but believe me, that's what he's going to tell you. Or she's going to tell you. So anyway, that. But that. That. That. Neither here nor there. The point is, is you've got some people that are. They're, you know, kind of bullying their subs.

[Daniel]

Yes. And it's very common in the industry. Any other sub will sign these contracts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not any. But here's the thing. I promise you that the things you and I are worried about are going to bite your competitor in the butt.

[Daniel]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

It just takes a little time. In the meantime, it just feels like lost business. But it's not lost business. What you did was you managed risk, and you've got to do that. I'll give you an example. In our world, we had a major national retailer that if I named them, everyone would know their name that wanted us to provide, that we were really excited to do a deal with until we got the terms. And they wanted us to put a, you know, a Ramsey book package together to put on their shelves labeled with their brand on the label and, you know, brought to you by such and such. Okay. And so we would have to go through and print all of this specific to them, meaning it has no value except on their shelves. You following me? It was a $10 million deal, and we were really excited about it because the distribution and the branding and to be associated with a name that big and all, that was all. It was a big deal for Ramsey back in the day. And then they came in and said, but if the stuff doesn't sell, we can return it all to you for a full refund, which means I got $10 million worth of crap in my warehouse that I have to throw away. Well, I'm not gonna bite a bullet because their $8 an hour stock clerk won't put the stuff on the shelf. Right. That's their problem. So, no, I can't do full returns on $10 million. It wouldn't put me out of business, but it'd make me wish I was out of business. You know what I'm saying?

[Daniel]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so we had to walk away from that deal because we could not negotiate past the full returns risk they demanded. And they said the same thing you said. They said, well, all the other vendors we deal with accept these terms. And I said, well, see, now you can't say that anymore. Yeah, you can say all but Ramsey, but, you know, Ramsey's the one unicorn that walked away from such and such that everyone was dying to do business with. And I'm not dying. I don't want to die. It's okay. Thank you. I'm not dying to do business with. So we had to walk away from that. And our team, you know, we're all looking at each other like, are we crazy? Are we stupid? Or we. Maybe we should do this? And we're like, no, if this, if those things come rolling back in here on an 18 wheeler, we're screwed, man. We can't do it. And the same thing with you. If they decide they're, you know, the. The. The owner doesn't pay for you for completed job, doesn't pay the contractor, so the contractor doesn't have to pay you. And that happens all the time. Daniel, no, thank you. No, you're liable. Dude, you hired me. That's how this works. And so, you know, you've got to decide what risk you want to take. And it is. There is a pain associated with walking away from bad business. But the pain of doing the bad business is greater than the having walked away from it. And it takes a few years for you to look back on that and go, we were really wise. It was really smart. That's how we're still alive, because we didn't sign stupid stuff. And the stuff you're describing, I agree with you. This is the Entree podcast.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Tyler]

I'm doing fantastic, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, man. What's up?

[Tyler]

So a small electrical contractor, 2023, we did 160 in revenue. 2024, I did 1.1 million with four guys, but I had to fire two of them. So I guess my question is, how do I find, you know, qualified electricians that are licensed, that don't drink on the job or do drugs or any other nefarious activities?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, as you're discovering, hiring qualified people with high character is hard because there's not as many of those as there is doofuses.

[Tyler]

Yeah, quite a bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's a high percentage of doofuses in the population and a small percentage of winners. And so what you and I are always looking for is we're looking for the winners. We're looking for the thoroughbreds, not the donkeys. You can't win the Kentucky Derby with a donkey. And you were right to fire these guys.

[Tyler]

And you could find, you know, electricians that are licensed. The issue is they don't fit my culture. Like, I work until the job's done. The customer satisfaction is my number one priority. But getting people that have that same vision, they exist.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're just more rare than the other kind of. And they do exist in every field, including electricians. We work with electricians all over America on entre leadership, and they are able to put together a quality culture with quality people. But, Tyler, what you're experiencing is a standard frustration. It is very hard. You are looking for the top, you know, 10 to 20% of human beings walking around out there with an electrician's license. And they're harder to find than the donkeys. There's more donkeys than thoroughbreds, man. That's why. That's why we. That's why we watch the Kentucky Derby.

[Scott]

Yep.

[Tyler]

So would you maybe slow down the growth and. Because the goal for this year was about 2.6 million, but I can't do that with just me and a guy, obviously. So we're going to obviously cut back a little bit until we find. Yeah, we take the time to find those good guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you have to. If you have to. I would grow slower rather than grow fast and have to do it over and over again because doing as you have discovered, doing it over and over again is kind of a frustrating experience. And so. But. But I. I want you to change your language. You've kind of got this impossibility thing out there, like these are unicorns, like they don't really exist. They do exist. There is just fewer of them and they are harder to find. Here's the great news. Once you've established and you've got, you know, four or five or six thoroughbreds on your team that are high character people that care deeply about the outcome and. And they know how to wire a fuse box without blowing something up. And they have their license. You know, once you've got a few of these, they will let the other ones know because they know who the other ones are. Thoroughbreds run around with thoroughbreds. Donkeys run around with donkeys, that's who. In their personal lives. And when they're on a job, they can look over at the competitor. They know who's over there, and they'll let. You'll attract them just because you'll become known as the place to go work, where you don't have to put up with, you know, drug use and you don't have to put up with misbehavior on the job and lack of character in the human beings and you'll become known as the guy that. That's where they want to work. Let me give you an example of that. You ever been to a Chick Fil A?

[Tyler]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what kind of teenagers are at Chick Fil A?

[Tyler]

Not sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Thoroughbreds. The best thoroughbreds on the planet. You know why they all go want to go work at Chick Fil A? Because Chick Fil A has a reputation of having thoroughbred teenagers in there. And so moms and dads can let their teenagers go work there and learn something about hard work and learn something about customer service without fear that the, that the senior manager's doing cocaine in the back. Right?

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so it's become, it's become a cultural. It's become very attractive, but it's almost as if it's a part of their brand. Brand now.

[Tyler]

Yeah, it's a great culture they have going. But would you only compete on price? Being such a small company, I can't offer, you know, health benefits. We offer 401k with no match.

[Dave Ramsey]

But what you can offer is treating people right and everybody else pisses on them.

[Tyler]

Makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I, I have never overpaid intentionally to hire someone in just my own price if. And a few times that I got close to doing that, it didn't work out because they were here for the wrong reasons. You want people to join this team because they want to be treated like family. They want to be treated with dignity. They want to be working for a guy who has a backbone, who gets his work done and has a love for the people that work there. He takes care of them, takes care of their family. Something happens, somebody needs a, you know, needs something you reach over and take care of. Family businesses are the best thing to work for on the planet instead of corporate America, because corporate America pisses on people. And so it's the best place to work. And so for years we've used that as our hiring brand differentiator. This is a great place to work. It's a culture where people behave. It's a culture where we care deeply about the outcome. And if you want to misbehave and you want to do all these other horrible behavior things that people do in the workplace, normally you're not going to fit in around here because we're going to hit the eject button on your butt and so you're not going to be here. We don't do that. You don't get to be a we if you're doing that. And so we've developed this reputation as being an excellent place to work. And we pay good wages, we pay market rate wages. But if somebody comes along and starts jacking wages up next door, then people want to go over there for that, then they need to go over there, because I'm not jacking wages up to keep people or to attract people above market. We pay a fair wage for a fair day's work, and we have one of the best places to work in America, and we're very proud of that. And you can develop that exact kind of thing in the world of construction, in the world of an electrician. But it is harder because you're looking for the top 10, maybe 20% of human beings walking around that have an electrician's license. The other 70 or 80% aren't worth screwing with their problems. And you've already experienced that. So it has at times over the 30 years been very frustrating for us here at Ramsey. And I will tell you, coaching 10,000 plus businesses across America, it's probably the number one pain point that people have is how to get the donkey, how to get the donkeys out of the building, how to get the thoroughbreds in the building. And it's constant, a constant pain point. For those of us that run businesses and actually care about our team and actually care about our brand and actually care about our culture, it is harder to do this, but in the long run, it's easier because you get to come to work with people that you actually freaking like instead of going, God, man, I have to take a shower every time I have a meeting with that guy. It's gross, you know, and people feel that way. They feel slimed because there's slime in the room. You just have to, you know, you have to deal with this. It's just so hard, Tyler. I know, and it is frustrating. I'm just. But you can. You can do this. And you need to do it the right way because you're going to have a better life if you do it the right way. That's the direction I would go. It's the direction I have gone. It's the direction We've taught for 25 years for small businesses to do.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Question of the Day from Bill in Nevada My wife and I own a martial arts studio and while we've maintained steady revenue over the past few years, I know there's room for growth. Neither of us went to college or come from business backgrounds, so I've been managing our business finances like personal ones, and I realize that's holding us back. What do you recommend for someone like me to build a solid understanding of the business side? I've been thinking about going back to school for a business degree, but would appreciate your guidance. You don't need a business degree and you know you may want to take an accounting class at the local community college. That wouldn't hurt anything to begin to understand accounting, especially if they have one designed a course designed for entrepreneurs for small business people. The second thing you can do is you need to hire a I don't know who's keeping your books now, but you probably need to hire an outside contracted bookkeeper. And part of their job is not just to keep your books, part of their job is to teach you. And if they're a little more expensive than someone else who just keeps the books, that's fine. But part of their job is to help you build out a good solid accounting system and that may even be a CPA. And you can go to ramseysolutions.com and you can find those kinds of folks. And our ELPs, our tax endorsed local providers, they're people that do taxes locally, but a lot of them also do books and do books for small businesses. So ask one of them could we hire you to do our books and teach us how to build out an accounting system and you can find someone to do that, and that's probably the best route to get that basic system in place, to do that and to manage that. And if it's a CPA that's got some long term business experience, they probably can give you some really good, just general financial advice, especially if they come off the Ramsey website, because they're gonna be anti debt pro cash flow pro retained earnings, which is the phrase we use for the emergency fund for the small business or the line of credit for the small businesses, self funded, whatever we want to call this. And so that's the route to go. But if you want to take a class on it, I'd do that. No, you don't need a business degree. That's not necessary. Very few small business owners have a business degree. Very few. Most of them are. They start out being the technician, the heat and air guy that knows how to fix a heat and air, the martial arts guy who knows how to do karate. You know, you start out being the technique, you know, the chef that knows how to cook. And then they end up, oh, wait a minute, I'm now in a business. And I was talking to a friend of mine that's a. In our world, in the podcast world, and the other day, and he's like, I thought I was just doing a podcast. Turns out I'm in business. Can you help me with that? And I went, yeah, yeah. Now that you got big, I mean, you get a little scale to it, you all of a sudden it's a big deal. It's no longer in your living room, dude. And so, yeah, that's exactly what you're going to do. So it's an accidental business owner, accidental entrepreneur. When you're just doing your thing and it takes off and that's kind of what you guys are doing. That's, that's the normal track. It's not go to a business school and get a degree and then you're going to go out and start reading books. And here's the trick. John Maxwell says that One of the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership is the law of the lid. The problem with my business is the guy in my mirror. The solution to my business is the guy in my mirror, which means you have to engage in a continuous stream of personal growth, which means you're very wise for asking this question and asking it the way you asked it. How can I grow? Because I'm the problem at my business. That was your question and it's a great question. It means you're very self aware. It means you got your hands on what's going on. And so, you know, what you need to do is just, you know, you never need to stop reading. I've got two books on my desk right now that are business books that I'm reading and leadership books and one's a biography and one of them is just an incredible book on entrepreneurism. So anyway, yeah, always. And I'm 30 years into this, dude, so, you know, if I can do it, you can do it. So jump in there, start reading, reading, reading, learning, learning, learning, learning. And if you want to go take a class, go take a class. But I would not spend the money or the time on the degree. That would not be my suggestion. Does leading your team feel like herding cats? Even if your business is winning financially, a misaligned team will create new fires for you to put out every single week. But with Entree Leadership Elite, you'll align your team and hold them accountable so you can stop herding cats and start scaling your business. To join elite, go to entreeleadership.com elite or just click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're glad you're here. If you want to be on the show, you can call us and leave us a note at 8:40 and we'll get back with you and the team. We'll get you set up to be one of the callers here and we'll try to help you move your business along. We love small business people here. You are the backbone. We are the backbone of the American economy. We are proof that the free enterprise system still works and we hire more people and create more of the gross domestic product than all of corporate America put together. And corporate America struts around acting like it's doing something and you and me are the freaking economy, boys and girls. So we're glad you're here. You deserve to win and we want to help you. 8 4, 4, 9 4, 4, 107 0. If you want to help us out with a show, we would appreciate it. You can consider following. Click the old follow button, the subscribe button. Leave one of those nice five star reviews. Mama said if you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all. And so don't do that. And hey, share it. Tell people about it. Share it with a friend. Tell people you're listening to this show and we'll try to help you out. It's what we do. Scott's here in Cincinnati. Hey, Scott, how are you?

[Scott]

Hey, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Scott]

Yeah, so I'm the senior technician of my family's residential H Vac company. We have about six employees and last year we did 1.2 million in top line revenue. My question is, how can I best honor my family while respectfully suggesting change?

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Scott]

I'm 27.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long have you worked there?

[Scott]

I'm in my 10th year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How long ago did your dad and mom start this?

[Scott]

So my grandpa was, he's the current owner. He was the first technician ever hired by the original owner. But the company started in 1980, he bought the business in 2005. So he's owned it for 20 years and my mom has worked with him for the last 25 years or so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so your dad's not there?

[Scott]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And. Okay. All right, well, I think the first thing you have to do, and I think you're probably doing this, but I'm going to outline it for all the people listening anyway that are asking the same question you're asking. The first thing you have to do is you have to be like the best senior technician on the freaking planet. You gotta be so good at your job and so good at leading the people. In other words, doing the job that is your job, that it earns you the right to speak up. If you're at 90%, you got no right to speak up. You gotta be at 120%.

[Scott]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Because you're overcoming the fact that your grandfather remembers the time you were walking around and pooped in your diaper.

[Scott]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

He still looks at you and sees that he can't keep because that's human nature. Right. You follow me? And so, you know, you are a very accomplished 27 year old young man. But it is very hard for your grandpa to see you that way because that's just human nature. And the way you can overcome that and for him to start to see you in another light is you perform at such a high level that his pride in your work is about to bust his buttons. His chest is sticking out. That's first lay that foundation. I kind of think you're already there or close, but I'd be real careful about that. Okay, sure. Because. Because sometimes Gen 2, or in your case Gen 3, is walking around, you know, running at a pretty good pace and they got a bunch of Ideas, and they've really not earned the right by being excellent to speak up. So that's. That's step one. Step two is begin all conversations. And you did this already, Scott, so you're ahead of the game. Begin all conversations with honor.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honoring your mom, the 20 years there, honoring your grandfather, being the first technician there building this out. I mean, what we're saying here mathematically, is he was a H vac technician before you were gleaming your daddy's eye.

[Scott]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You see what I'm saying? So, you know, he just. You were there first. I mean, he was there first. So he's the goat. He's the original. And you gotta honor that. You gotta honor that and honor that. And, Grandpa, I just. I respect what you've done. What you've pulled off here. Staying in business for 45 years is an anomaly. This guy's a stud. Your grandpa's incredible. And you need to talk about him to him and about him that way all the time. The number of companies that have gone out of business since 1980 in heat and Air is a bunch. Like most of them.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, very few companies are as old as you all are in that space. So honor, honor, honor, honor. This guy's the goat. So be careful before you come up to Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and tell him how to throw a football.

[Scott]

Right? Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what we're doing here. Okay? So. And if you approach it from those two positions and then you say, I want your help telling me this is what I think I'm seeing. What am I missing?

[Scott]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think if we did this, it might work, but I'm afraid that I'm the 27 year old and you're the goat, and I don't know what's going on. Grandpa, tell me what, is this a good idea? If it's not, teach me what's wrong with it so that I can be you someday.

[Scott]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

And nobody hates that conversation.

[Scott]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's laced in honor. And it's a question rather than you running around going, I'm so much smarter than everyone because I know how to use the Internet.

[Scott]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's just bull crap. All right? And so nobody wants that. So it's the opposite of arrogance. There's a humility to it, but it's not a. We're not being manipulative. You're just being truthful. The truth is your grandpa's a stud, and it'd be smart to ask his qus. Ask him some questions about business. He'd probably teach you some stuff. And a good way to do that is going, I think I'm seeing this. And you've missed, you've made avoided a bunch of bad decisions, grandpa, and you've made some really good ones because you've innovated and changed as you've gone along here for 45 years. So what? I'm seeing this. It feels like we could do this. What am I missing? What is there? Should we try that? And if not, tell me, teach me why.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, he may look at you and go, you know, that's a dad gum. Good idea. Let's try it. Yeah, you may be onto something or he may, but. But that, that enables him to hear it. Because if you come in with just a tinge of, I've got all my crap together and you just don't know what's going on, he's gonna look at you and go, man, I got socks older than you.

[Scott]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the whole thing's gonna shut down. And rightly so. And so that's. We have watched a lot of family businesses navigate a lot of stuff, and especially the Generation 1. If Gen 2 and Gen 3 will approach conversations and approach change and approach questions with great honor, by paying honor, it just goes a long way. It goes a long way. Very few people hate being honored if it's not. As long as it's not manipulative. I mean, and you legitimately respect your grandpa, I'm sure.

[Scott]

Oh, I do, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, because it sounds like he sounds like he's worthy of respect and honor to me.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

A guy that runs 45 years, I'm impressed with.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Crap, I've only been doing this 34 years, so, yeah, you know, that's a different thing. So it's, you know, wow, pretty cool. But I'm sure you do have something to add to the equation. You just asked me how to add it and that's what I was teaching. It wasn't. I wasn't questioning the validity of your ideas. You heard that, right?

[Scott]

Yes, yes, I did. Yeah. And I appreciate what you had to say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, very cool. Great question, sir. I love that question. It's very, very well done. Good stuff. Hey, folks. Wow, that's some good callers today. Remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the entree Leadership podc.