← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Howard Lutnick And The Transcript From His Epstein Related Congressional Hearing (Part 2) (5/14/26)
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The transcripts from Howard Lutnick’s closed-door appearance before Congress painted a picture of a witness trying to minimize both the depth and duration of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein while lawmakers confronted him with records suggesting...
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What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're getting right back to the Howard Lutnick transcripts from the deposition in front of Congress. Mr. Emmer Question Secretary Lutnick, I understand you've had a long career, but can we just start by can you briefly walk us through your professional career up until now? Answer by lanik Sure. I graduated from Haverford College in Pennsylvania and my first job was with Canor Fitzgerald, and I never had another job, so I stayed at the same firm my entire career. And if you had asked me or my family two years ago, would that be true? I would have assumed it would have been for the full amount of my career. And then I left Canor Fitzgerald to join the Trump administration as the Secretary of Commerce. So it's rather a simple career. One job since college and then a second job working for the administration. Thank you. And again, we appreciate your public service and agreeing to testify voluntarily. Let's talk about your contact with Epstein, and we appreciate the personal or the statement that you made. But let's start from the beginning. When did you first meet Jeffrey Epstein? I first met Jeffrey Epstein when his staff knocked on our door and invited my wife and I to come next door for coffee. He lived in the townhouse adjacent to ours. And then sometimes later my wife and I went over to his house for coffee. It was literally eight or ten steps next door. Question and who was the staffer that knocked on your door? Answer well, I don't know. I didn't answer the door. I have someone who works for me who answers the door. Imagine that, all of these out of touch people. I have someone that answers the door for me. Does he scratch your nuts too? Question so you were invited. What happened when you showed up in Mr. Epstein's residence? Answer My best recollection is we walk next door. Someone answered the door. We went through his foyer, up a big flight of stairs to his living room and sat in his living room and had coffee. Mr. Grant, another investigator pipes in. Excuse me, what year was that roughly? LUTNICK this was 2005. GRANT thank you. Back to Mr. Emmer. And you said that you had coffee with him. What was the nature of your conversation with him during this coffee? I don't recall. And approximately how long did this coffee last? Answer. Short. A reasonably short amount of time, maybe 10, 15 minutes. And then he offered us a tour of his house. And I recognize that you touched on this in your opening statement, but again, when did you purchase your property? So I purchased the property in 97, and then. But it was an unfinished property. Meaning the residents were pigeons and mice. I mean, literally unfinished. I mean, pigeons flying around. So it required extensive building. I wouldn't even say renovations. It didn't have heating or an air conditioning system. It. It was a raw structure. And you said you didn't move into the property until 2005, correct? That's right. And in between the purchase and the renovations he made, you had no contact with Mr. Epstein whatsoever? Zero. What did you know about Mr. Epstein's prior to this interaction? I didn't know of him. I don't recall knowing anything about him. Question. You had no understanding of what his job was when you initially met him? I did not. Not that I recall. Everything I say would be what I recall today. So. Question. And again, you brought this up in your opening statement, but this first interaction, you going to his home for coffee, that's the interaction you described on the Pod Force One podcast. Is that right? Answer. Yeah. And I went with my wife next door. He invited my wife and I over to welcome us to the neighborhood, is what my recollection is. Emmer. And for the record, I'm referring to the October 1, 2025, Pod Force 1 podcast that you appeared on as a guest with Miranda Divine, which we'll discuss in more detail shortly. So you have this coffee. What happened next? Answer. He offered, would you like a tour of the house? And we said, sure. And then we had a tour, and we went across the hall, where, you know, across from the living room is generally the dining room. And he opened the door, and there was a massage table, and I saw his massage table, and that ended the tour. Question. So you did not see the rest of the house? One room is what you're saying? Answer. One room. That's my recollection. Another investigator jumps in. Mr. Specter, Secretary Lutnick, you mentioned in your opening statement that he demonstrated that Mr. Epstein demonstrated a clear lack of boundaries. I think that was the word that you used. Are you referring to the massage table in that. Lutnick. So we were in the living room. So I saw the living room. And then we went and he opened the door to the room across the hall, which was what I assume would be the dining room, but he opened it, and there was a massage table. And his lack of boundaries was. Was what he said. Spectre. What did he say, Lutnik? I asked him why he had a massage table in the middle of his house. This is the best of my recollection. It's not like precisely what he said. This is my general recollection of something that's 21 years ago. So. And I said, how often do you have a massage? And he said, my best recollection is he said, every day and the right kind of massage. And he said it to me and my wife standing next to me, and we looked at each other and we left. Mr. Emmer, for the record, what did you interpret Mr. Epstein to mean when he said the right kind of massage? That it would become some form of sexual nature. And that's. That's what I assumed it meant. Question. And at this point, did you ask to end the tour or you just said, we're going to leave? I don't remember precisely what we said, but we basically excused ourselves and departed. Did your wife ask Mr. Epstein any questions related to the massage table? I don't recall her speaking. No question. So on the podcast, you said, after seeing the massage table in Mr. Epstein's house and the six, eight steps it took for you and your wife to get back to your house, you decided, and I'm quoting, that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again. Is that an accurate characterization of. Of the statements that you made on the podcast? Answer by Lutnick. That is informal, incomplete discussion that my wife and I had as we walk back, the point of which was when I discussed it with my wife, that I, Howard Ludnick, would not have personal or professional relationship with this person because he obviously doesn't have boundaries. So just avoid him. I should avoid him. And that's what we discussed. It's not verbatim what we said, because this is 21 years ago, but it's. And it's what I did. I avoided that person. Question. And I believe my colleague may have been asking a similar question. But that feeling that he was disgusting, that was based solely on interaction with Epstein after you saw the massage table and asked him about it, is that right? It was based on the comment that was inappropriate and gross to me and my wife. It was just off putting, and we left. It's been reported and. And we've seen by the files released by the Department of justice that Mr. Epstein decorated his home with creepy and disturbing artwork. Did you notice any unusual artwork at his residence when you visited? The living room, which I saw did not have anything creepy or unusual in it. You didn't notice any paintings or photos of nude women or girls on it when you visited the property? No, I would have noticed them. So, no. So I want to talk more about your appearance on the Pod Force One podcast and the statements you made. But first, generally, how did this appearance come about? I don't know offhand. You know it comes from your communications director. They set it up. I don't know. Question and the topic of Jeffrey Epstein was the first topic during this appearance. Did you know that you would be discussing Jeffrey Epstein when you agreed to go on the podcast? No, I thought I was going to talk about September 11th. So we talked about the statements that you made after seeing the massage table. That guy's gross, disgusting, you'll never be in the room with him again. And you said it was just a one and done. Is that a fair characterization of your statements? No, I think the right way to think about it is my wife and I discussed that I would not be in the room with him for professional, philanthropic or. Or social reasons. Meaning don't form the simplest way to say it. Don't form a personal or professional relationship with them. Avoid establishing one because he has no boundaries. Right. He said something inappropriate. Just avoid him. And I did. So that was the discussion with my wife. It was informal. I wasn't trying to be precise. I was trying to have people understand that I. That my wife and I discussed that I would not establish a personal or. Or professional relationship with him and that I did not. Thereafter, I did not. Question during the podcast, you dispute any characterization that you implied that after the initial interaction that you would interact with Mr. Epstein again. Answer. I would the characterization suggesting that I couldn't be in the room that personally, it was a discussion with my wife, that I as a man should avoid being with him. The. Because he has no boundaries. And that won't work well for me in my life if I'm with someone with no boundaries. So avoid him. That was the discussion I had with my wife. And I did avoid him. So it was true what I said. It wasn't that I couldn't be if he. As the members know, often people come to up to you and, you know, say hello to you in a big crowd. I wasn't saying that couldn't occur. It didn't occur. But the point I was making is I would not have a personal or or professional relationship with them. I would avoid it. And I did avoid it. Question did you interact with Epstein after the initial interaction that you described on the podcast? Answer I said my opening statement. I had two in person interactions with him thereafter over the next 14 years, even though I lived adjacent to him. Two interactions over the next 14 years, both meaningless and inconsequential. Question and we will get into more specifics, but did you visit Epstein's private island? Is that right? Answer I did visit Epstein's private island with my wife and children and another couple and their four children and staff. Yes. Question I want to briefly talk about statements that you made related to and I'm going to your statement was that Epstein had an MO to give massages to influential individuals and that he used blackmail. For the record, that was based not on first hand knowledge, Is that right? Correct. I'm sorry, Council, would you mind just letting us know where that statement's coming from? Emmer during the podcast? Thank you, Emer, and I'll be happy to pull out the transcript. No, just curious. Just wanted to make sure that we're tracking where you're pulling the statement from. Thank you. We can't hear back here. Lutnick. I was just speculating for a podcast. I had no personal information. I was just speculating for a podcast. Emmer so for the record, sir, did Jeffrey Epstein ever inform or represent to you that he was part of any intelligence service of any nation, including the United States? Answer no Question. So how would you characterize your relationship with Mr. Epstein? I had no personal or professional relationship with him. I had two interactions in person that were meaningless and inconsequential. I would say I had no relationship with him. How often did you interact with Epstein in a personal capacity? I met him once in 2005. I had two meaningless and inconsequential other personal interactions and I tried to think about this as many times as I can and I cannot think of any others, nor do the documents show any others besides the in person interaction, which again we'll talk about more specifically later. Did you email, have phone calls with Mr. Epstein? I don't recall ever having a phone call with Mr. Epstein. And I think I had one set of email interactions with Mr. Epstein personally that went meaning four were written by me to him. But in one a effectively one conversation, I mean I said A, he responded B, I wrote C, he responded D. And I think that there were a total of four in one day. Once question for the record, you've mentioned the visit to the island, the tour of the town, home. Did you ever visit Epstein's Palm beach home? Answer no. Did you ever visit Epstein's New Mexico ranch? Answer no. Questioned. His Paris apartment? No Question. Did you ever visit any property owned or leased by Mr. Epstein? Answer no. Question Did Mr. Epstein ever invite you to any of his properties? Answer no. Question did you ever fly on any of Mr. Epstein's private planes? Answer no. SPECTRE and just for clarity on the record you had, besides the two interactions you discussed at Epstein's New York home, did you ever visit that home at any other time that he was not present? LUTNICK no. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.