Howard Lutnick And The Transcript From His Epstein Related Congressional Hearing (Part 4) (5/15/26)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: Howard Lutnick And The Transcript From His Epstein Related Congressional Hearing (Part 4)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: May 15, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the Congressional testimony of Howard Lutnick, CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, regarding his interactions and communications with Jeffrey Epstein. Host Bobby Capucci continues his meticulous review of Lutnick’s deposition, examining email exchanges, property connections, and the nature of Lutnick's contact with Epstein—both professional and personal. The testimony scrutinizes claims or suspicions about Lutnick’s ties to Epstein and provides direct questioning about any potential awareness or witnessing of Epstein’s criminal activity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context of Email Exchanges between Lutnick & Epstein

Timestamp: 01:00 – 03:30

• Email Chain Overview:
  Lutnick is questioned by Mr. Emmer (Congress) regarding an email from Epstein about "admin," a company working on ad exchanges.

  “Why would Mr. Epstein be emailing you directly about prospects for admin?”
  Lutnick explains that such outreach wasn’t unusual due to the company’s broad marketing efforts.

• Epstein’s “Guest House” Joke:
  Epstein references buying Lutnick’s townhouse as a “guest house,” misnaming it as the Pierre Hotel, which Lutnick clarifies:

  “He just got the hotel wrong … it was an unfinished apartment. It was not a serious offer by Epstein to purchase your townhome.” — Lutnick (02:43)

• Townhouse Ownership:
  Lutnick affirms Epstein had no role in the sale—he purchased it from Charles de Gunsberg:

  "Epstein did not own the house. So I don't know what that's referenced to … I bought the house from Charles." — Lutnick (03:17)

2. Nature and Extent of Lutnick’s Communication with Epstein

Timestamp: 03:30 – 08:06

• Email Interactions:
  Lutnick maintains he had only one notable four-part email exchange with Epstein. Congressional counsel references another earlier topic—Epstein and Lutnick discussing the Frick expansion, indicating property and neighborhood interests linked them.

• Third Party Facilitators:
  Rich Barnett, a Cantor Fitzgerald employee, managed Lutnick’s construction matters and may have tried to connect Lutnick and Epstein in 2009, but Lutnick has no direct memory of communication.

• Epstein’s Secretary & Scheduled Calls:
  Congressional staff introduces emails from Epstein’s secretary, Leslie Groff, regarding Lutnick returning Epstein’s calls in early April 2011. Lutnick clarifies:

  "My office must have suggested that I call him back … we were unable to connect by phone. That led to my second encounter with him." — Lutnick (05:04)

  He recalls a mundane neighborly interaction regarding scaffolding for property construction, emphasizing it was “inconsequential and meaningless.”

3. Clarification of In-Person Meeting

Timestamp: 08:36 – 10:12

• Nature of the 2011 Meeting:
  Lutnick describes ringing Epstein’s bell with his dog, meeting briefly in Epstein’s foyer—his wife waiting outside—discussing planned scaffolding:

  “He had some sort of plan in his house and he was letting me know that it would be annoying.” — Lutnick (08:55)

• No Other Notable Interactions:
  Lutnick asserts the 2011 communication was his only personal interaction with Epstein beyond brief logistical matters.

  "The only interaction that I recall was the one I just articulated … The only interaction that I've ever had." — Lutnick (09:18)

4. Handling of Epstein-Related Emails

Timestamp: 10:12 – 12:04

• Email Delegation:
  Lutnick confirms his longtime assistant Matthew Gilbert handled most email correspondence, often responding on his behalf, including those from Epstein:

  “The point was if you email that email, it was to Matthew Gilbert … I didn't even read them. I didn't see them.” — Lutnick (11:15)

• Neighborhood Advocacy Regarding the Frick Museum:
  Lutnick explains local residents, opposing the expansion of the Frick, occasionally asked him to reach out to Epstein as a neighbor to enlist his support, but:

  “It was just neighbor … they contacted me, asked me to contact them, but by asking me, they asked effectively Matthew Gilbert." — Lutnick (11:45)

5. Direct Questions on Knowledge of Epstein’s Crimes

Timestamp: 12:05 – 13:20

A critical segment as Emmer presses Lutnick on any knowledge or exposure to Epstein’s criminal behaviors:

• On Witnessing or Experiencing Impropriety
  Lutnick's direct answers are firm and unambiguous:

  “Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein have sexual contact of any kind with any young woman or girl?”
  “No.”
  “Did you ever see or meet any young woman or girl at Mr. Epstein’s office or residence?”
  “No.”
  “Did you ever receive a massage from any young woman brought to you by or introduced to you by Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell?”
  “No.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Quote | Speaker | Timestamp | |-------|---------|-----------| | “He just got the hotel wrong … it was not a serious offer by Epstein to purchase your townhome.” | Howard Lutnick | 02:43 | | “Epstein did not own the house. So I don't know what that's referenced to.” | Howard Lutnick | 03:17 | | “My office must have suggested that I call him back … That led to my second encounter with him.” | Howard Lutnick | 05:04 | | “He had some sort of plan in his house and he was letting me know that it would be annoying.” | Howard Lutnick | 08:55 | | “The only interaction that I recall was the one I just articulated.” | Howard Lutnick | 09:18 | | “I didn't even read them. I didn't see them.” | Howard Lutnick (on email delegation) | 11:15 | | “Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein have sexual contact…?” — “No.” | Dialogue | 12:12 | | “Did you ever see or meet any young woman…?” — “No.” | Dialogue | 12:35 | | “Did you ever receive a massage from…?” — “No.” | Dialogue | 13:15 |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Email Chain regarding “admin” and townhouse joke: 01:00 – 03:17
• Discussion of Frick expansion and neighborly interaction: 03:18 – 08:06
• 2011 in-person meeting (scaffolding incident): 08:36 – 10:12
• Clarifications about email delegation & Frick museum advocacy: 10:12 – 12:04
• Rapid-fire questions on knowledge of Epstein’s crimes: 12:05 – 13:20

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Tone & Takeaways

The dialogue remains calm, direct, and methodical, with Lutnick consistently distancing himself from any improper or substantial relationship with Epstein. His responses portray the contacts as either business-related or mundane neighborly interactions, handled largely by staff. The Congressional questioning is thorough, closing with unequivocal denials regarding any knowledge or participation in Epstein’s criminal activities.

No new explosive revelations arise in this excerpt, but the episode underscores the importance of clear, documented testimony as public scrutiny on Epstein’s web of connections continues.

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For further details and document references mentioned in the episode, check the show notes and description box.

Transcript

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[Howard Lutnick]

What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're going to get right back to the Howard Lutnick deposition that he gave to Congress. Mr. Emmer, we discussed your emails earlier sir. Is this HWL email yours? Answer yeah. Question and the email chain begins with Mr. Epstein asking you what do you think the prospects for admin are? Why would Mr. Epstein be emailing you directly about prospects for admin? Answer I don't know. Admin was a company that's objective was to become an exchange for Internet ads. So it was pursuing companies that put out ads like banks do a lot of ads, you know, big advertisers and websites. So it was marketing to everyone it could possibly find to use their services to buy their ads cheaper. You, you know, for the advertiser to not use an ad agency and get the money directly and you know, the advertisers are more efficient. And so it would have been out talking to everybody. So I wouldn't be surprised or it wouldn't surprise me that people knew about it. I was not. It wouldn't have been unusual. It was not. It was out there trying to make to get attention. Question and given your previous testimony as it relates to the emails that you sent, is it safe to assume that this response was you personally? This was, this was me because it says hwo Question and for the record, can you please read the email that you sent back? Yeah, but this stemmed on another note so it must have stemmed from something else. But it says you just want me to read it. Producing revenue finally. This is their year. Next 12 months they need to become economically self sufficient. Question and Mr. Epstein replied to your email and said thanks. How long until Sherry's ready and can I buy my guest house? To which he responded probably four years. Pierre. What is Pierre? So he made a joke that he would buy my house as his guest house because I had bought the top of the Pierre Hotel. It was an apartment. It still is a large, again unfinished, unfinished apartment. So he just got the hotel. Wrong question. It wasn't a serious offer by Epstein to purchase your townhome. It was sort of a snarky joke or a joke question. The committee understands though public reporting and records that an Epstein affiliated trust had owned that townhome that you moved into. Prior to you did Epstein, during your acquisition of the property, did Epstein have any role in the sale of that property to you? Answer no. I bought my townhouse from someone named Charles de Gunsberg who owned it. So Epstein did not own the house. So I don't know what that's referenced to. Charles de Gunsberg owned the house and I bought the house from Charles. Now Mr. Spector jumps in. You testified earlier about having one distinct four part email exchange with Jeffrey Epstein ever. Is this that email chain, Lutnik? This is two of it. It may have been like disconnected. Sorry, I can't. I'm holding my hand separate now. Terwalger, the Lawyer jumps in. Mr. Emmer, on that point I do think for the sake of completeness I would just proffer to the committee that if we were to look at document EFT Alpha 0150718, you'll see that there was a prior communication between Secretary Lutnick and Jeffrey Epstein around the building of the Frick expansion. And that's how we go from the subject to another Note initiated by Mr. Epstein. Mr. Emmer. Thank you. Mr. Emmer. At this time I'd like to introduce what will be marked as majority exhibit number five. And for the record, it appears that you are not a recipient of this email. And this is an email from Jeffrey Epstein to redacted dated 10-19-2009. And it's Bates marked EFTA 243886. And it appears to be a message passed along to Mr. Epstein from Rich Barnett about you wanting to speak to Mr. Epstein Secretary Lutnick, who is Rich Barnett? He was someone that worked for me at counter Fitzgerald said so on my staff. Question and we're reviewing an email from October of 2009. Do you have any recollection of why you would have been trying to get in touch with Epstein? Answer. I don't have any recollection. But Rich Barnett was responsible for my sort of construction and things associated with that. So it may have been that I was doing something at my house, but I shouldn't speculate. I don't know, and I did not speak to him. Question. Thank you. At this time, I'd like to introduce what will be marked as Majority Exhibit 6 and 7. Majority Exhibit 6 is an email dated Monday, April 4, 2011, from Leslie Groff, Jeffrey Epstein's secretary, sent to Mr. Epstein saying Howard Lutnick returned your call. And the Bates number, EFTA 654552. Majority Exhibit 7 is a calendar reminder dated the very next day, April 5, which appears to show a scheduled callback between you and Mr. Epstein. The reminder states, Je to call Howard Lutnick today. Call Matthew to organize. And that is Bates marked EFTA 02191245. For the record, it appears as though you are not a recipient of either one of these exhibits. Secretary Lutnick, do you know who Ms. Leslie Groff is? I do not. Question. According to the email, you returned Epstein's call. We are early April 2011. Do you have any recollection of why you'd be returning a call from Mr. Epstein? As I think I said my opening statement, he had something to tell me, or so I was told, is the best of my recollection from 15 years ago. So I must. My office must have suggested that I call him back to hear what he had to say. And. And we were unable to connect by phone. And that led to my second encounter with him, with my best recollection being I rang his bell, walked into his foyer with my dog. My wife waited outside with my other dog, the one that one wouldn't be good to bring into someone's house. I waited for him to come down. He told me what he had to say. And I remember this is a long time ago, but my best recollection was it had to do with scaffolding. Mr. Spector, question. When you say scaffolding, are you talking about the construction on your property or his? Yes. So it was discussion between neighbors about work that might affect one another. I think my best recollection is he was planning on doing scaffolding, which would sort of be annoying to my property. So he was sort of telling me he was something. This is my best recollection of. Of an inconsequential and meaningless conversation 15 years ago.

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[Howard Lutnick]

So I'm not. I'm just saying that's my best recollection. Was it the topic of scaffolding? I can't give you more. Something else I'll tell you would just be speculating as to what it was about. So generally when you say inconsequential and meaningless in this case you mean it was just kind of a mundane conversation that would be normal between neighbors of any sort? Answer Right. And then he had some sort of plan that he in his house and he was letting me know that it would be annoying. Question. Thank you, Mr. Emmer. And this meeting that you referenced during your hearing with the Senate Appropriations Committee last year. You discussed your interaction with Jeffrey Epstein and mentioned an hour long meeting at Epstein's home in 2011. Is this the same interaction that you just described related to scaffolding Lutnick? Yeah. His documents, the documents in these files had set aside an hour, which is what I was referring to. The only interaction I recall was the one I just articulated. I didn't have another interaction. His schedule said other things that was wrong. The only interaction that I've ever had. I'm here describing to you accurately what my best recollection, literally to my recollection could be. Did the topic of massages ever come up again besides that first interaction that you had with Epstein by Lutnick? No. Mr. Emmer, at this time I would like to introduce what will be marked as Majority Exhibit 8. While we're waiting, I understand another member has joined. Can you please identify yourself for the record? Mr. James Walkinshaw of Virginia 11, NRO Khanna, California 17. This is Batesmarked EFTA 475742. This is an email chain from May of 2018. Mr. Lutnick or Secretary Lutnick, do you recall sending this email? Secretary Lutnick knows I've told you. If it says Howard Lutnick, it was sent by Matthew Gilbert and he's the one who sees them. Meaning I don't. I don't see them. They're not literally on my computer screen, they're on his spectre. I'm sorry if you said this earlier, but just for the record, who is Gilbert to you? Answer by Lutnick Mr. Gilbert is my Longtime assistant in my office. He's worked for me for like 20 years. Spectre. So this would be the normal way that he would handle emails from all sorts of people, not just Jeffrey Epstein. Lutnick. Correct. The point was if you email that email, it was to Matthew Gilbert. Everyone learned that he would respond to them. Sometimes he would do it on his own, sometimes he would do it in mine. But it was always just him. I didn't even read them. I didn't see them. Spectre. Thank you. Emmer. Question. And this relates to the blocking of the views of the park from your town home, is that right? Answer. Yeah. The Frick is an architecturally important structure built around the turn of the century or something like that. And it was beautiful. And they, the museum had wanted to knock down parts of it and build a high rise, which we found unusual and bothersome. And you may have discussed this in your opening statement, but why did you reach out to Epstein related to the Frick? So the way the block works is there is a multi unit co op that is the first building inside the number one or number three. And then there is Jeffrey Epstein's townhouse and then mine on the other side. And on the other side there was a group of owners, tenants, people who lived in that building who were fighting the Frick building. It. They contacted me after a while and then at some point they asked me if I could contact Epstein to have him be involved. But it was just neighbor. They contacted me, asked me to contact them, but by asking me, they asked effectively Matthew Gilbert, who then contacted him. Question. Secretary Lutnick, the majority's hour is coming to an end. I. I want to ask you some general questions as it relates to Mr. Epstein's crimes. For the record, did you ever witness Mr. Epstein have sexual contact of any kind with any young woman or girl? No. Question. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein receive a massage from a young woman or girl? No. During your interaction with Mr. Epstein, did Mr. Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you during no. Other than which he said the right kind of massage? Question. Did you ever see or meet any young woman or girl at Mr. Epstein's office or residence? No. Question. Did you ever have any sexual contact with any young woman or girl in the presence of Epstein? No. Question. Did you ever receive a massage from any young woman brought to you by or introduced to you by Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell? And answer. No. Mr. Emmer. We will go off the record. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here and in the next episode, we'll pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

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