Inside The OIG Interview: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 6) (3/28/26)

Summary

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The Epstein Chronicles, Ep. "Inside The OIG Interview: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 6)"

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: March 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Epstein Chronicles continues the detailed exploration of testimony from an unnamed captain at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) as interviewed by the Office of the Inspector General (OIG). The episode focuses on what correctional staff knew and did regarding Jeffrey Epstein’s supervision, cellmate requirements, and internal protocols in the special housing unit (SHU) in the period leading up to Epstein’s death.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. OIG Interview Procedures and Context

• [00:45] The episode resumes with direct excerpts from the OIG’s interrogation of the unnamed captain who oversaw SHU operations around the time of Epstein's death.
• Focus is on establishing which staff were aware of, or should have been aware of, critical protocols, specifically Epstein’s need for a cellmate and heightened observation.

2. Staffing, Communication, and Guidance

• Staffing Shortages and Overtime

  • Regular SHU staff, like "Redacted" and others, often worked consecutive shifts due to shortages ("these shoe guys was working back to back shifts" [01:43]).
  • Overtime sign-ups blurred the lines of staff familiarity and protocol adherence.

• Guidance and Oversight

  • The unnamed captain states, "The warden told me to do it, so if the warden told me to do it, why wouldn’t I go and do it?" ([02:12])—demonstrating top-down directives for increased oversight.
  • Emphasis on hitting all three shifts to assure everyone was informed.

3. Written Directives and Memoranda

• Formats of Communication

  • Guidance delivered via emails, verbal instructions, and memoranda specifically about SHU procedures, including 30-minute inmate checks and the distinction between "close supervision" and suicide watch.
  • The captain is pressed on whether Epstein was specifically named in guidance; he recalls a memorandum prepared for the "583 packet" and emails concerning observation rounds ([03:21]).

• Recordkeeping and Availability:

  • When asked if these emails were ever submitted to investigators:
    • "No, they never asked for it." ([03:12])
    • Offers to retrieve and share them upon request.

4. Interpretation of Procedures and Terminology

• Distinctions in Watch Status

  • There’s confusion and clarification about "psychological observation"—labeled as an MCC-specific, unofficial term—with the captain stating:
    • "There’s no such thing as psychological… it’s called close supervision; there’s no such thing as psychological. That was an MCC thing." ([04:21])

• Identification of High-Visibility Inmates

  • Use of "orange card" for high-priority inmates:
    • "I said make sure these particular inmates…their card should be orange…those would be our high-visibility inmates…" ([05:31]).
  • Special guidance attached to such inmates, including extra vigilance and (in Epstein’s case) a cellmate requirement.

5. Understanding and Enforcement of Inmate Supervision

• Cellmate Requirement

  • The interviewer pushes: "Is it understood that a high visibility inmate like that needs a cellmate?"
    • Captain: "Yes." ([07:25])
    • Further, that all staff should have understood this, at least those working directly in the SHU.

• Knowledge Gaps

  • The captain concedes some may not have directly received information or had conversations with him, particularly non-custody staff and some acting lieutenants.

  • Quote: "I didn’t have the conversation with them…I'm not going to lie, I didn’t have the conversation with them." ([08:01])

6. Follow-Through and Accountability

• There’s an underlying thread of ambiguity whether all relevant staff not only should have known, but in fact did understand and execute on the cellmate and high-observation protocols.
• Systems of Accountability include both direct (conversation) and indirect (email/memoranda) channels.
• The captain is firm that certain direct reports, especially SHU lieutenants, received explicit instruction and would have been responsible for relaying that information.

7. Ending: Looking Forward

• The episode concludes with Bobby Capucci summarizing that the conversation will pick up in the next installment, encouraging listeners to consult the episode’s description for supporting documents and references.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chain of Command Obedience:

  • "The warden told me to do it, so if the warden told me to do it, why wouldn’t I go and do it?"
    (Unnamed Captain, 02:12)

• Clarification of Official Protocols:

  • "There's no such thing as psychological… that was an MCC thing."
    (Unnamed Captain, 04:21)

• High-Visibility Inmate Identification:

  • "Orange card inmates. I said make sure these particular inmates…their card should be orange… those would be our high visibility inmates…"
    (Unnamed Captain, 05:31)

• On Gaps in Staff Knowledge:

  • "I didn’t have the conversation with them. I’m not going to lie, I didn’t have the conversation with them."
    (Unnamed Captain, 08:01)

• On Responsibility:

  • "As a lieutenant in charge, yes, he should have made sure…"
    (Unnamed Captain, 11:12)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:45 - Start of the OIG interview segment.
• 02:12 - Discussion of warden's orders and captain's compliance.
• 03:21 - Email and memorandum evidence about observation protocols.
• 04:21 - Clarification of the term "psychological observation."
• 05:31 - Introduction and purpose of "orange card" for high-visibility inmates.
• 07:25 - Direct confirmation that high-visibility inmates required a cellmate.
• 08:01 - Admission of not communicating with all staff.
• 11:12 - Reflection on staff accountability, especially for SHU lieutenants.
• 14:30 - Episode wrap-up and preview for next installment.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a revealing, if sometimes muddled, insight into the operational failures and bureaucratic confusion inside MCC during Epstein's incarceration. The unnamed captain's testimony exposes gaps between policy, written communication, and practical enforcement, raising persistent questions about accountability within the BOP (Bureau of Prisons). Capucci keeps the focus sharp on what matters most for unraveling the case—what was known, who was supposed to act, and where critical lapses may have occurred.

For supporting documents and full interview transcripts, consult the podcast’s description box.

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Transcript

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[Correctional Officer / Investigator]

What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the interview by the unnamed captain at MCC with the OIG investigators. Question. So back to this though. Can you look at the other shoe on, you know, the subsequent shifts if you had conversations with them? Answer. So Thomas. No, because he would have just been on there. Redacted. Yeah, I talked to Redacted because Redacted would go between evening watch. Because I would talk with him. Redacted would work evening watch. So I've talked with him on evening watch. He was working morning watch because these guys, it was such a short of staff that these shoe guys was working back to back shifts or staff. It didn't matter. People who wanted money or wanted to, you know, they'd sign up for overtime. So Redacted was one of the regular shoe staff on the evening watch. Yeah, so I talked to him. Red I talk with him. Redacted would go between the three and also the OIC because he had the most knowledge out of those guys. So sometimes he, even though he was the three, he was the one with OIC duty. Question and OIC stands for Officer in Charge. Answer Officer in Charge. So he was doing all the rosters when it was time to move inmates inside the units, you know, he was in charge of ensuring that those sentry rosters were updated to ensure that the accountability of the unit was correct, to make sure that the inmates were placed in their proper cells. Who is this? I'm sorry, hold on. And sew in the shoe. We want to be focusing on Noel Tovah. Noel was one of the. And that's Tovah. Now I know Tovah now Tova. I can't remember if I spoke to Tova, but I know that I had hit all three shifts, meaning that day watch, I was always up there on day watch, evening watch, I stayed over because that's what the warden wanted. He told me, hey, make sure you go and hit all the three shifts. The warden told me to do it. So if the warden told me to do it, why wouldn't I go and do it? Question sure. Answer the warden, we sat down, he said that these are the things that I want to happen first. I want to make sure, walk through, talk about, make sure the staff is aware, indiscernible, are doing this, this and this. And also I know that you have that I put out an email, so I just didn't tell them. What do you call that? Question so you sent an email to all the shoe Answer yeah, I did. To all correctional services staff and I think I still got it. Question to all correctional yeah, I still got it. Question did you ever provide that to anyone? Huh? Question did you ever provide that to anyone? Answer no, they never asked for it. Question can you absolutely provide that to us? Answer yeah, I think I have one. And we can go to my office so I can show you. I don't want you to think I will bring it up for you. So would have this Michael Thomas and Tova Noel been on that email? Answer Tova would have been because she's a correctional officer, but not Thomas. Okay, question you understand? Okay, but I thought that everyone was considered a correctional officer. That's not the case. As far as when emergencies happen, when emergencies happen, regardless of what your discipline is, we all come together. It means you go into everyone. When you came in the bop, everyone was given the opportunity that when you went through correctional, those tactics that you learned in Glynco, it was about being a correctional officer. It wasn't about being a dentist or being a chaplain or whatever. It's about correctional principles. Question okay, answer Introduction to correctional principles. Question but as far as there was an email that just the people that are working in the correctional officer. Answer yes, and I can show that to you. Question Perfect Answer I have that question. Awesome answer. Because it wasn't just me just talking to them. I put out guidance and I keep putting out guidance. It wasn't like it was one time I talked about inmates being placed on suicide watch. I I talked about inmates putting on there. What is the difference between closed supervision? What is it? Suicide watch? Question Psychological observation. Answer and psychological there's no such thing as Psychological and that, you know, there's no such thing. It's called close supervision. There's no such thing as psychological. That was an MCC thing. Question okay, answer that they made up. So it's a close supervision and or suicide watch question. So you have at least one email though that you sent to correctional officers saying that Epstein needed a cellmate. I wasn't saying Epstein, but I do have two. I think I gave one email and one memorandum that I wrote for the 583 packet for Epstein. I think you may have that. I don't know if you have it. And then I have wrote another one about the importance of doing 30 minute rounds. The special housing unit. Question okay, yeah, if you can, after we're done, either you can send it to me or you can give it to me. Answer I can give it to you. I'm going to give you a copy. Question Perfect. All right then just I think there's a few more like I don't know how to spell his name, pronounce his name. But again that was another non custody guy. So redacted I believe worked. He was a material handler. I think redacted was a material handler. So he's not correctional services anymore. However did they have a background? No, I'm sorry. Redacted went to R D. So he was receiving and discharged. So these staff members worked as correctional officers. Came up as correctional officers but their daily assignment, their job descriptions changed, their whatever their non custody question. So the people that worked in the SHU and the correctional officers, the. They were aware of it. But people that had different functions in the facility, they may not have been. May not have been because I wouldn't talk to them on a daily basis. Question and what about do you know if there was any kind of like post it notes or sticky notes? Yeah, I had created it was one because I said orange card inmates. I said make sure these particular inmates. Inmates, high visibility inmates. And I think I talked about that that the, that the other inmate, their card should be orange and those would be our high visibility inmates at you And I think I got an email about that too about the high visibility inmates inside the unit. You should take special care to ensure these inmates are observed when you're doing your rounds. Question Anything though about the actual cellmate requirement though? Do you know if there was any kind of like sticky note or any kind of post it about saying hey, make sure that Epstein Answer I can't remember but like I said I was putting out a lot of guidance, you know coming from and you Know coming from the warden and things that I would have thought that was beneficial to the correctional officers. I was just putting that guidance out. I kept putting it out. You know, like I said, you know, I'm going to be talking to them on putting out the guidance, but if they don't open their email and don't read it. Question what about some of the people who are acting lieutenants? Somebody like a redacted. Sorry. So redacted. She would work correctional Post. Question so she would not have known that. She would have known. Question should she have known that Epstein had to have a second cellmate? It's common knowledge that you're supposed to do the 30 minute rounds. Question huh? Answer and be vigilant. But however would she know necessarily that those protocols were placed on Jeffrey Epstein, that he was supposed to have a cellie? I mean you see an orange card if you see the guidance. I believe I had put something together that was on the OIC's desk. On the desk. Talked about the high visibility inmates and Jeffrey Epstein was a high visibility inmate. Queen Question but is it understood that a high visibility inmate like that needs a cellmate? Answer yes. Question okay, so you're saying make sure you're doing rounds, but it's also understood if it's a high visibility cellmate, they need a cellmate at all times. Answer yes. Question okay, and did they all understand that? Answer yes. Question all right. And to include Thomas, he cuts them off. I don't know. How about Noel is the next question. Answer because they are not custody and I don't believe I had that conversation with them. I'm not going to lie, I didn't have the conversation with them. Redacted. What about some of these lieutenants? Like acting lieutenant, like redacted. Answer Redacted. Oh, redacted was in correctional service and she I believe during the time was working on attorney conference.

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[Tyler Reddick]

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[Correctional Officer / Investigator]

Yes Answer she was in correctional service. She was working an attorney conference during that time. So redacted. I actually promoted her to acting lieutenant. She was getting paid as a lieutenant, so yes, she would have known. Question so she should have or would have or should have Answer Yes. Question how about some of the other ones that were on you said redacted. Obviously you already said you specifically directed him. Answer if he yeah, I brought him in the office and we spoke. Yes Question do you know how and I think you said that you spoke to him on multiple occasions. Is that correct? And made sure that he knew and made sure that Epstein needed a cellmate. Answer yes. Question okay, what about redacted? Answer Redacted. I had conversations well, I don't believe I had a conversation with her. Question should she have known based upon the orange card? Yes, she should have known because I put the guidance out through the email. Question now the guidance though said about you said it talked about rounds as opposed to actual cellmate requirement though, correct? Answer I can't remember Question okay Answer you know, I don't know because like I said again, I put out a lot of guidance. Answer yeah Question But I know the people who I actually spoke to as far as like hey, you the oic. I mean, you're the lieutenant of shoe. That means you're working day watch. That means any movement happens on day watch, it don't happen on morning watch. Inmates are locked in their cells. Question Right. Answer so anything day watch, evening watch, that shoe lieutenant should be aware Question okay, and we'll get into gets cut off. So that's why we would have had the conversation when he and I had that conversation Question and do you remember so you recall specifically talking with them? Do you and this is I want to know about aside from what they should have known Specific Conversations with redacted answer. I can't remember about redacted. I believe it's internal. I came into the lieutenant's office and we spoke about it. So as a collective, the lieutenants were made aware. I can't say I remember that I would come into the lieutenants and we would talk about Epstein. So again, between the guidance that was put out through the emails and the conversations that I would have just had encountering lieutenants. Yes, but however, I can tell you for sure, I had a conversation with redacted answer and would have redacted, made sure that those people working in the shoe knew this information. Answer he would have as a lieutenant in charge, yes, he should have made sure somebody likes somebody that's not in there. Although Toveno. Well, I think that was her quarterly post, or at least she was in there a lot of times. Question, huh? Answer Leading up to it. So I should have made sure that she knew because she worked evening watch. Question what about Michael Thomas? Answer Michael Thomas? Probably not. But by him working in the unit, he would know. I mean, you would say, okay, if he's working on evening watch or morning watch. There was no need to move inmates. There was no showers that should have been taking place. There was no earrings, no medical nothing. We had to open up a cell for. For those inmates. Answer or question okay, answer. So most of those inmates was done on day watch. There was no reason for. For them to move these guys. Question okay. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

[Tyler Reddick]

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[Alex Canceroitz]

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