← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed CO/Lieutenant (Part 3) (5/22/26)
00:14:11
In a sworn interview with DOJ Office of Inspector General investigators conducted on June 14, 2021, an unnamed lieutenant and former correctional officer from MCC New York was questioned as part of the investigation into Jeffrey Epstein’s death and...
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Visit your nearby Lowes. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're getting right back to the interview that was given by the CO slash Lieutenant to the OIG investigators. Question okay, let's go through. Let me get it. Do you recall being investigated by the agents in regard to the Jeffrey Epstein death and her not being investigated? Being interviewed. Question Interviewed. Sorry. Answer yes. Question in regards to Jeffrey Epstein's death? Answer yes. In 2019? Answer yes. Question okay, what I have is a summary of their interview with you. I'm going to read it what it states. Answer okay. Question Please let me know if it's accurate and if there's any questions. Answer okay. Yep. Question Redacted. Started working for the BOP in February 2011 at Allenwood. Redacted. Transferred to MCC in October of 2013. Redacted. Is a senior officer specialist but also serves as a lieutenant. This usually happens when Redacted is working overtime and is in the capacity of her acting activities lieutenant. Redacted stated that in order to do a round, an officer has to physically go inside the area that's occupied by the inmates as an activities lieutenant makes a round through the special housing unit and asks officers in the shoe if things are good. She usually called numerous times to the shoe for certain issues. Like when an inmate complains that he hasn't received something that is property note of the issue and advises the captain. I don't know about advising the captain. I. I mean, the captain ain't there, so it's things that we handle at that specific time. We can't wait for the captain. So who would you advise? Me being a nine, I would advise operations. And being that I'm a senior specialist, sometimes I can take the initiative to rectify the situation. Okay. On the date of August 9th, if there wasn't any issue, who would have you advised? Redacted as an activities lieutenant. Sees a sampling of tiers at MCC during her shift. A sampling of tears. Oh, tiers. I'm sorry. Sampling of tears. Redacted. Uses her PIV card at the computer terminal to log rounds each Unit at MCC has a different log. Each unit. MCC has a different log. I don't understand what that means. Question. I guess what they're saying, or they're probably trying to say, is that there's different units do log their own counts and rounds. Question. Yeah. Officers have a responsibility. They have their own PIV card where they log in their own log information. Yes. Question when you do rounds as a lieutenant, do you keep track of it, the rounds that you do? Answer. We log them. Is it different for each unit? Oh, yes. Okay. When we're talking about lieutenants doing counts and rounds, are you talking about or rounds, I should say you're typically talking about doing rounds with your staff as opposed to with the inmates, correct? Well, when you're making rounds, it's four. Because I'm a person that works in the correction system. I mean, staff well being is very important to me. You know, of course we supervise inmates, but if I'm walking on a unit and I need to know where the staff member is, once I get that staff member and I get eyes on that staff member, then we do whatever we need to do. Question. So point being, if I'm asking a lieutenant about conducting rounds and I'm asking a CO about conducting rounds for a lieutenant, a round would pretty much be you're checking in with, your round Is with the COs and officers, whereas the officer rounds are with the inmates. No question. Oh, that's not. No, no. So Lieutenant rounds are staff and inmates. Now officer rounds is just inmates. So like for example, we have to make rounds on outside patrol. There's no inmates out there, but we still have to leave the building, see OP1 officer, and then walk around the building, make sure nothing's being tampered with, and then come back inside. So our rounds consist of finding security rounds as well. You know, we're tugging on doors and making sure the recreation is secured and stuff like that. Question. Redacted Works is an SOS Senior Officer Specialist during her normal shift, which is usually the day watch, 8am to 4pm.if redacted works overtime, she acts as activities lieutenant from 4pm to 10pm redacted has worked as a corrections officer in the shuffle, usually in overtime and on evening watch. During her shifts in the shoe. Redacted has responsibilities pertaining to the inmates, such as phone calls, showers, and the library. The 30 minute rounds are recorded in truscope and on paper logs. Redacted stated that she has not worked with anyone who didn't do the rounds. Redacted Parted space in the 10am Count on the weekends, but during the week a count is not done. During her regular shift of 8am to 4pm during the week, redacted leaves before the 10pm count is conducted. During the count, all inmates have to be seen. The inmates are counted by one officer, then another officer. Double count. Question Double count. If there are only two officers working during the count, one officer will count the inmates and then the officer will switch and the other officer will count the inmates. The officers are to only count inmates that are physically in their unit. Answer. We count inmates everywhere. Like they may be inmates in food service working. We have to still count them. They're considered out count, but we still have to count them. So we count anywhere inmates are. Question. So point being, if there were people in the shoe, but then one or two of them were outside the shoe at the moment, you still have to account for them. Answer yes. Question. Because they're on your roster. Answer. Because they're in the building, because they're an inmate, they have to be counted for regardless. Question okay, and how do you do that? Do you still write them down on the slip? Answer yeah. Question Just the number, total number. Answer no. So we have she gets cut off by the investigator or do you have to note that they're out? Question yeah, so we have a. First we have to put them on the outcount, which is so like say for instance, we have one inmate that's out to the law library. We will call control and say, hey, we got an inmate out at the law library. All right. Put them out on the outcount as law library or put them on the outcount. So when the officer counts, I've got one in law library. So yeah. How is it documented on the slip? Still documented. Yeah, it's still documented on the count slip. It's still part of the official count. And is there a note made though that anyone was outside of the unit? No. Question. Or just the total number? Nope, there is not a note made because we do outcounts as a very common thing. Okay, the outcount. I want to show you a document. It's a Bureau of Prisons count sheet. And this is dated August 9th. Can you just tell me what time period that's for? Answer. Yeah. Alright. So August 9, 2019. Tell you what, I'm sorry, question. What count was that for? Answer. This is the 4pm count. So this is the time that the count is cleared. So when we clear counts, that means that all these areas called in their count, all the counts were good and it's now clear. And now inmates can move again. And is there a count slip in there in the documents? We have 30 days. We have something in the control center that we call a 30 day file and account slip that are usually in the corner or here stapled to this package right here. It's a small box. Keep going. Small little piece of paper. Yeah. Keep flipping through it all the way to the back. Now these are outcounts out counts. Out counts. Out counts. Yep. Okay. Yep. But it's not like on a little white piece of paper. They're little pieces of paper.
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Question. If there was somebody that was not in the unit. Right. And that's the counselip that they have to show, would they just write the number or how would they show. You said that you have to show it on the outcount, right? Answer. Yeah. Question how would they show the outcount on that slip? Answer. So, for example, let's use. This is Southern Court. We have inmates that go to court like during the day because it's pre trial institution. So it says FNYs that's Southern District Court. So up here it'll say FNY S. There's three inmates from five south that are still out that are not physically in the building. So we have to do an outcount for them. Question. And it's listed on the count slip as FN Y S. Answer. Yeah, so you've got. That's weird. FN oh, I'm sorry. FNYS oh, there's one. I'm looking at food service that's on my way to discrepancy. Okay. FNYs one. There's one out. Same room. Counted and the count slip would fit right there. And what does that state? Hold on, let's see. That states that there's one inmate by the name of Clark that's in southern court from 11 south unit. So this is the century document that matches this document right here. Okay, well, here's the question that I have. If an inmate happened to be moved to RD. Answer what time? Let's just say during the 4pm count. Right before the 4 peak. If they moved R D when the unit does it its count, do they record the inmate as being in R D or do they record it as still being in the unit? They record the inmate being out of the building. That's why it's an outcount. Question. An outcount? Yeah. And how would they record that? It's just on the slip. How do they say it? Oh, it's just B1 is it would just be the number like count one if I'm answering your question. Answer. Yeah, let's just go. I'm going to show you. Question. Okay. Answer. This is the 10:00pm count. Okay. For August 19th. Answer. Yep. Question can you tell me how many people were in the shoe for the 10pm count? Answer. 73. 70 inmates were physically in special housing for the 10pm count. Is it 73 inmates, right? Yes. Now I'm going to show you 12pm I mean 12 midnight. Sorry, I apologize. That's on August 10th at 12 midnight. How many people are in the shoe? 72. Question 72. Yes. How many people in the RA? What's RA by the way? Now if you take a look at that slip for the count slip for the shoe for that time period, can you tell me what it says on the count slip? You're talking about August 10th, right? Question. August 10th, that's the count slip in the back. I know you didn't work this. I know. I'm just taking a look at it and I want to get clarification. Now you want me to tell you which count slips? Which one? Question the shoe. Answer the shoe. One says yup, it says 73. Does that match with the number? The number? It does not. It does not match. So let's say if they had an inmate in rd, what's the procedure? Do they have to get eyes on that inmate before they put that as part of the count? So if someone's in R D, it could have been a self surrender or usually one of the federal agencies will drop off an inmate. That happens all the time. Internal number two would not be pulled from their post and told to post up an R D to watch the inmate. Because R D is a secure area so a staff member has to be in there. There's like no back and forth. Like now you're pulled from your post and you have to physically stay in R D to watch the inmate. So they'll do that sometimes. I'm not saying that happened this time, but they'll do something where we do. Like the Lieutenant will say, hey, because it's so close to count and the inmate is accounted for. Well, kind of like ghost count them. Ghost counting, meaning the inmate is still physically accounted for, but we'll just put it on the slip again. I'm not saying that this happened here, but we have a lot of inmate movement at count times. Sometimes we'll improvise with the documentation, but never with accounting for inmates. Question. Okay, I just wanted to. The point of clarification is to let's say if the count was done and then the count was wrong, what's the next step? If they identify the fact that whoever the COs are, they counted the inmates and it happened to be wrong. I'm not saying that happened here. Question. If it was wrong and the lieutenant, whoever it was on shift identified it as wrong, what's the next step? Answer. So when you call in one bad count, you have to recount again, Right? If you call in two bad counts, the lieutenant authorizes a bed book count. That's we have like a picture card with like a long book with the inmate's picture in it. Registration number is bed assignment. We now have to recount the inmates over again, but we're physically making sure that like you're Smith, you're Jones, you're where you're supposed to be. So we do bed book counts when we have to. When we have bad counts. Questions. So one bad count, the COs in the unit have to redo the count. Yeah. Do the lieutenants have to go into the unit to do the counts? To assist? No. Alright, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
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