Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed CO/Lieutenant (Part 4) (5/23/26)

Summary

---

The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed CO/Lieutenant (Part 4)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: May 23, 2026

---

Overview

In this episode, Bobby Capucci presents and analyzes a segment of a confidential Office of Inspector General (OIG) interview with an unnamed corrections officer (CO) lieutenant regarding the official procedures, irregularities, and possible mishandling of inmate counts on the night of Jeffrey Epstein’s death at MCC. Through an authentic Q&A format, Capucci and the investigators probe routine protocols, unusual movements of inmates, and areas where staff discretion or “improvisation” might have led to confusion or manipulation of official records. The episode sheds new light on inner workings of the institution, offering listeners a direct look at how counts, paperwork, and inmate transfers actually functioned inside the controversial facility.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Inmate Counts and Paperwork Irregularities

(00:15–03:30)

• Investigators ask about a scenario where the count slip (official form) reports 73 inmates, but one is missing from the physical count.
• The CO lieutenant explains:

  “It’s not considered a bad count, it’s just considered something that we improvise with.” (00:50, unnamed CO lieutenant)

• After-hours inmate arrivals (e.g., those delivered by federal agencies) are labeled as “safekeeps” and automatically placed in the Special Housing Unit (SHU) because they haven’t had a full medical assessment.
• Discrepancies between physical and paper headcounts are adjusted at the lieutenant’s discretion.

2. SOP Departures and Practical ‘Improvising’

(03:31–06:20)

• Recounts may be done if there’s any confusion or to confirm the location of an inmate.
• The CO lieutenant asserts this is common:

  “It happens all the time. It’s a pretrial institution and we process inmates all times of the night.” (04:22, unnamed CO lieutenant)

• Despite this, the “ops lieutenant” typically wouldn’t order a recount unless there was real uncertainty about an inmate’s whereabouts.

3. Terminology Clarity: R&D and SHU

(06:21–08:30)

• R&D (“Receiving & Discharge”) doesn’t stand for anything specific, just a label used within the institution.
• SHU (Special Housing Unit) houses “safekeeps” and those requiring segregation.

4. Specific Count Changes: Movements to Suicide Watch

(08:31–12:00)

• Investigators probe a numeric change: From 75 at the 4pm count, to 73 at 10pm.
• The CO lieutenant is asked about removals—potentially to suicide watch. He can’t recall specifics.
• It’s established through questioning that two inmates were likely moved to suicide watch between counts.
• Capucci and the investigators note that documentation on these movements isn’t on the paper count slips, but is instead found in a digital system (“Sentry”).

5. Unusual Inmate Transfers and Timing

(12:01–17:00)

• Investigators focus on a specific case: At 10pm, the count is 73 (no one at attorney conference), but by midnight, it drops to 72, with one inmate recorded in “R&D.”
• The CO lieutenant says:

  “Never remember that happening…unless he was going out on a trip or like we get an agent that come and they do takeout orders and… pull the inmates to go rat on other inmates. We call it takeout orders.” (15:25, unnamed CO lieutenant)

• Suggests that, unless there’s an outside agency pick-up or urgent need, midnight movements to R&D from SHU are “very rare.”

6. Concluding the Interview

(17:01–18:00)

• After confirming there’s nothing further from investigators, Capucci wraps the episode, promising to continue the analysis in the next installment.

---

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Count Improvisation:

  “The lieutenant can make that decision. That would be the lieutenant’s decision because this inmate is physically an RD.” (02:51, unnamed CO lieutenant)

• On After-Hours Movements:

  “All inmates coming in at that time always go to special housing unit. So again, I’m not saying that happened that time, but there have been situations…” (01:51, unnamed CO lieutenant)

• On Recounts:

  “Happens all the time. It’s a pretrial institution and we process inmates all times of the night.” (04:22, unnamed CO lieutenant)

• On R&D’s Function:

  “It’s just the unit, just the letters. It’s not like Bravo, Charlie. It’s just literally B, A, C, A.” (06:52, unnamed CO lieutenant)

• On Unusual Transfers:

  “But like you said, it would be very, be very rare that between 10pm and midnight someone would be moved to RD.” (16:39, unnamed CO lieutenant)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:15 – Start of OIG CO lieutenant interview, count sheet discrepancy scenario begins
• 03:45 – Explanation of “safekeeps” and SHU placement
• 04:22 – “Happens all the time” – recounts and improvising
• 06:21 – Clarification on R&D meaning
• 08:31 – Movement of inmates to suicide watch between counts
• 12:50 – Probe regarding the rare transfer to R&D at midnight
• 15:25 – “Takeout orders” clarification about midnight transfers
• 16:39 – Confirmation of how rare those movements are
• 17:50 – Conclusion of the interview

---

Tone and Approach

The episode maintains Bobby Capucci’s characteristic investigative and skeptical tone, pressing for transparency while maintaining respect for technical details and interviewee ambiguity. The conversation is detail-heavy, with sharp back-and-forth on bureaucratic procedures, balancing institutional routine against the possible for manipulation or oversight.

---

For Listeners

This episode provides a granular look at MCC’s internal paperwork and protocol, illustrating how seemingly tiny discrepancies can become significant in a high-profile case. It’s essential listening for those seeking a clearer picture of systemic issues and the procedural fog that surrounded Jeffrey Epstein’s final hours.

---

Transcript

[A]

If you're into tech, you'll love this. TikTok is a live lab where users post instant reviews of the latest trends. Download TikTok and check it out.

[B]

What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're going to dive right back in to the interview given to the OIG inspectors by the unnamed CO lieutenant. Question okay, do you have anything else on that? And the other investigator jumps in. Question so if someone, if they call an account and for instance in this instance and they said hey we've got 72 present and one out and they wrote 73 on the count slip, what would happen then? Answer what would happen with the staff? Question so would you write 72 or 73 on this or would the lieutenant so if the slip is in this instance says what, 72, right? Yeah, the slip says 73. Question and if they called it in and told you the ops lieutenant, we've got 73 here but one of them is not in the unit, is that considered a bad count or what is that considered? Answer it's not considered a bad count, it's just considered something that we improvise with. And we have inmates coming in after hours as like self surrenders and when the dea, the FBI, they drop off the inmates at that time. Question so what should have been written on these? Should have it said 72 on the outside sheet or should it have said 73 and vice versa? What should have the counts said 72 or 73? Answer well inmates that come in that late, we call them safekeeps and they're always going to go to shoe regardless. Always because they're coming in late and they haven't been medically assessed. We do the initial intake but it's not the full on intake like during the day watch hours. So all inmates coming in at that time always go to special housing unit. So again I'm not saying that happened that time, but there have been situations where inmates are coming in and she gets cut off by the investigator. And so what I'm saying in this specific instance if when they spoke to the ops lieutenant and they said hey we got 72 but we wrote 73 on the count slip because one is not in here but he's still on our books. Answer yeah, so the lieutenant can make that decision. Question so is this sheet, this top sheet, should it have said 72 or 73 or. That would be the lieutenant's decision. That would be the lieutenant's Decision because this inmate is physically an RD. Question okay, so they can combine those. If that were the case. If when the ops lieutenant spoke to the people that were assigned to the shoe, would it be normal for the ops lieutenant to say just do the count again? No, because the ops lieutenant was knows that the inmate is in off the streets, so everybody is now in the know. Question. So it'll be suspicious if the ops lieutenant said, hey, they called this in and they told me this and I had them do it again. No. Question. That's also not. He gets cut off by the co. Happens all the time. No, happens all the time. Follow what I'm asking. Yeah, it's a pretrial institution and we process inmates all times of the night. Question. So it's not a big deal if the ops lieutenant was just like, you know what? Just do it again. Answer to recount again. Question. So I'll clarify. He gets cut off by the guard. I'm just trying to see why would they say count again. Question. That's what we're trying to figure out. Answer. If the inmates are gets cut off. If the story is. And this would be the story, this issue calling in our count. 73 is on the slip. One is actually not in here. And the lieutenant says, I want to make sure that we've got eyes on that other body. Answer. Huh. Question. Do they count again while I ensure that we have eyes on that body. Does that make sense? Answer. It makes sense, but it's working extra hard for no reason because when these inmates come in at this time and they're placed in R and D, like the operations is the highest ranking officer on like we get one new in like that three in the morning. It's not the lieutenant's job to call the captain and say, hey, we got more new because it's practice. Question. Would that change if this person wasn't new? It was rather an inmate that was in the shoe that just got moved out to R and D for whatever reason. I mean, we've had emergency trips go out at weird times, but an inmate doesn't. He goes to RD to put the restraints on. Like if medical is not here, you know, we do cpr, we make tourniquets, we do a whole lot of things. Question. And just for the record, what is RNA and R&D? What do they stand for? RD is just the outcount Question. I mean, what does it. Is it short term for something? It's just letters. Okay, so it's not like R D, which would be like research and development. No, no, no. It's nothing like that. It's just the unit is just the letters. It's not like Bravo, Charlie. It's just literally B, A, C, A. Okay, let me show you something. Can you look at the 4pm count? What's the count at the shoe? 75. Now they have one in an attorney conference at 4pm but in special housing unit, they counted 75 inmates. Question. Okay, what's the 10pm count? 10pm count is 73. Anybody in attorney conference? No, this is the 10pm Nobody's in attorney conference at this time. Okay, so now the question is, do you recall there being an incident that night? So if you notice, the count went down between the 4pm and the 10pm you were on shift. Did you recall any inmate threatening anything or saying anything, Any reason why they would have been removed from the shoe at night? Not that I remember, no. Did you hear movement remove from the shoe to go where? Suicide. Did any inmates come threaten to commit suicide that night? I don't remember. To be honest with you, I don't remember that specifically. If I said two inmates did threaten and they did get moved out, can you see on the 10pm count of them being moved to the suicide watch, what would they account for? That would be three inmates. That would now be three inmates leaving. So this is basically saying that there is three inmates gets cut off by the co. Hold on one second. Answer. Yeah. Unknown male. Can I show you answer? Yeah. Well, you need to go to the wellness center. I was going to use the restroom, but if you got. So they have this conversation about the bathroom, blah, blah, blah. All right, back to it. Question. So if there was two inmates moved, would it show at the 10pm count where they were moved? No, that's in sentry. So the count slips in. The package doesn't have movement of inmates. We run something that they call, oh, I'm sorry, gets cut off. What unit would they show up at? If they're on suicide watch, what unit are they in? They would be. Ha. Question how many inmates you see? Answer 4. Question. How many inmates do you see at the 4pm Count? Answer 2. Question. So between 4pm and 10pm Two inmates were moved over. You don't know the facts, but let's say if they did threaten to commit suicide, two would have been moved over. Right now it's four at 10pm yeah, but because these numbers are different doesn't mean that they weren't there. We need in between paperwork to show that the SHU inmates were. Were the ones that went to suicide watch. Question. Okay, that's based on Investigation, it shows that someone did. Answer gotcha. Question 2 people did. What I'm trying to get at is, if you notice, that means Technically at 10pm they were still saying there are 73 inmates. Right? Answer yeah. Question so would that mean that one person was already in R D? Because remember, at midnight they're saying there's a person in R D? Answer that's correct according to this question. So somebody between the 10pm count or even the 10pm count, they might have possibly called the shoe the lieutenant and clarified with the lieutenant to get permission to account for the R D person. But why would an inmate that's inside the shoe still be an R D that late at night? Why would an inmate in general be in the R and D at that time? Yeah, but where would they be coming from? Are you asking specifically if it was at 73 at 10pm and then all of a sudden it's 72 at midnight? Were they changed? Could it have changed between those two hours? Could that have happened between 10pm and midnight? What had happened? I'm sorry, say it one more time. Question that inmate that from 73 it became 72 because one inmate got moved to R D. Would inmates have been moved after 10pm to R D? Answer I don't. Never remember that happening. Question Would that be very unusual? Answer to go to R D? Question Right. Answer Unless he was going out on a trip or like we get an agent that come and they do takeout orders and and they pull the inmates to go rat on other inmates. We call it takeout orders. Question so I guess that's what he's trying to get at is that all of a sudden at midnight this changed to 72, but at 10pm it said 73. And they're claiming that one individual actually was found in R D. Does it sound suspicious that that actually happened? Or it probably happened earlier in the day and they were just not doing their counts. There's just no way to tell because gets cut off by the investigator. But like you said, it would be a very be very rare that between 10pm and midnight someone would be moved to RD. Answer an inmate would be going to R D for just going to rd. Question Right? Answer like there's nothing in RD unless we have a bus coming in and then RD staff are staying back late, but just to go to SHU to R and D. Now when we have an emergency trip going out, then that's when we gather all the restraints and we put the restraints on the inmate. But I don't know. Question is R and D housed at all times. Answer no. Question. Okay. There's someone assigned. If something happens, Answer yes. Question. Okay. Any other questions? The other investigator? Nope. All right, we're going to wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.