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The Epstein Chronicles

Episode Summary: Inside The OIG Interview – The Testimony Of An Unnamed CO/Lieutenant (Part 7)

Released: May 24, 2026

Host: Bobby Capucci

Episode Overview

This episode delves into a detailed breakdown of an interview conducted by the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) with an unnamed correctional officer (CO) who occasionally acted as a lieutenant at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) during Jeffrey Epstein's incarceration and death. Bobby Capucci walks listeners through key sections of the testimony, discussing the prison’s protocols, the handling of Epstein’s cell assignment, the count and round procedures in the Special Housing Unit (SHU), monitoring through cameras, and specific questions surrounding the infamous count logs and falsification allegations. The overall tone is matter-of-fact, direct, and focused on operational realities and the nuances of prison administration.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

I. Protocols for SHU Inmates and Cell Assignments

Notification of Cell Movements:
- If a special case inmate, such as one requiring a cellmate, is moved, the Operations Lieutenant must be notified. For regular inmates, this step is often skipped.
  - Quote:
    “If it wasn't like a person who needs a cellie, you don't have to call the lieutenant and tell them that an inmate left, but if you required a cellmate and it's a special case, then everyone knows that the phone should be ringing.” (01:00)
Handling Absence of Cellmate:
- If an inmate like Epstein required a cellmate and one was absent during the 10 pm count, the Operations Lieutenant should have been called.

II. Officer Rounds and Inmate Counts

Purpose of Rounds and Counts:
- Rounds are conducted for inmate well-being checks; counts are to ensure inmates are present and alive.
  - Quote:
    “To check on the well-being of inmates.” (02:10) “To make sure the inmates are alive and well and breathing.” (02:25)
Count Process Specifics:
- SHU staff can move inmates at any time, but they must justify moves.
- Inmate counts require officers to see live, breathing bodies; at night, this means waking inmates or checking for movement under covers.
  - Quote:
    “We're checking for inmates are standing up for count, making sure that they're facing you. We need to see live, breathing bodies.” (24:50) “So if they're laying down and some have the covers over their head, knock, they'll pull the sheets over. You see their face, they move. You're seeing movement, you're seeing they're alive.” (26:30)

III. Use and Responsibility of Cameras

Camera Usage at MCC:
- Cameras were present; lieutenants would typically review footage together, not individually.
- The Facilities Department was responsible for maintenance and ensuring proper camera function.
  - Quote:
    “Absolutely.” [on whether there are cameras inside the MCC] (03:00) “[If the cameras were down], Facilities Department.” (04:00)

IV. Inmate Privileges in SHU

Permitted Items:
- Inmates could have food and commissary items like tuna or tea bags.
- Medication: some inmates were “self-carrying,” others received meds from medical staff during rounds.
  - The CO did not know if Epstein had pill authorization.
Clothing and Linen Policies:
- Shower/linen exchange occurred Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
- Accumulation of extra clothing was considered a nuisance and was the responsibility of SHU officers to control, though cell searches for excess items happened only intermittently due to the number of inmates.

V. Epstein’s Demeanor and Interactions

Observed Behavior:
- Epstein was mostly quiet, focused when with attorneys, and didn’t interact much with the CO.
- The CO had no knowledge of Epstein’s interactions with other inmates or of threats against him.
Personal Views Regarding Epstein:
- The CO was mostly indifferent to why Epstein was incarcerated and did not discuss him with other inmates.
  - Quote:
    “Don’t care.” [On feelings about why Epstein was in prison] (11:30)

VI. August 10th (Night of Epstein’s Death)

The CO was not on the relevant overnight shift and was not present or involved with the aftermath directly.
The CO did not recall specifics about arrival timing or whether they saw Epstein or emergency personnel upon coming to work the next day.

VII. Count Logs, Rounds, and Allegations of Falsification

Who Signs Count Slips:
- Only officers whose names are on the count slips would be responsible for any falsification, not other SHU staff.
  - Quote:
    “Whoever's names were on the count slips.” (15:40)
Division of Labor on the Unit:
- Duties are not tightly supervised; staff trust each other to perform their respective roles simultaneously (e.g., one prepping food trays, one counting).
Timing of Duties:
- Both rounds and counts, if done efficiently, take about 12–20 minutes if “smooth.”
Rounds vs. Counts Distinction:
- Rounds: Officer visually observes inmates; may multitask with other duties (like handing out tissue).
- Counts: Officers must verify breathing, live bodies, sometimes knocking and waking inmates at night.

VIII. Internal Communication and Policy Implementation

Epstein’s Cellmate Requirement:
- An internal email from Psychology (July 30, 2019) mandated that Epstein must have a cellmate.
- The interviewed CO had never seen this email, as acting lieutenants did not always receive official lieutenant communication.
  - Quote:
    “And you said psychology from… really should have made that psychology. Sent it out... to all the lieutenants saying that Epstein was required to have a cellmate.” (28:15) “That is correct. … Although I'm acting, I don't get lieutenant emails because I'm not an official lieutenant.” (30:00)
Frequency of Acting as Lieutenant:
- The CO served as acting lieutenant about once or twice a month around the period in question.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“If you have 100 inmates in the special housing unit, you know, cell searches are not conducted every day on the same inmate.” (09:00)
“So, like, that is correct. Say, for instance, if an inmate's saying he needs a roll of tissue … I would look at every inmate, give you your tissue, keep going. Killing two birds with one stone.” (21:50)
"[On falsified counts]: Whoever's names were on the count slips." (15:40)
“Don’t care.” (11:30)
"[On not receiving the critical cellmate email as acting lieutenant:] Although I'm acting, I don't get lieutenant emails because I'm not an official lieutenant." (30:00)

Important Timestamps

01:00 — Protocols for informing on cell moves for special case inmates.
03:00 — Officer rounds and the purposes of rounds and counts.
04:00 — Responsibility for monitoring and maintaining cameras at MCC.
09:00 — Frequency and logistics of cell searches and linen policies.
11:30 — CO's indifference towards Epstein’s charges/context.
15:40 — Falsification responsibility on count slips.
21:50 — Multitasking on rounds (delivering items while observing inmates).
24:50–26:30 — Count process: must see "live, breathing bodies", knock to get inmates to move.
28:15 — Email from psychology requiring Epstein have a cellmate.
30:00 — Communication breakdown: acting lieutenants not receiving certain emails.

Conclusion & Next Steps

Bobby Capucci ends by noting this is the wrap-up for the current testimony review, promising to continue with the ongoing, step-by-step breakdown of OIG and other interviews relating to the Epstein case in future episodes.

“All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.” (31:20)

For listeners seeking deeper understanding of the MCC’s inner workings, procedural ambiguities, and possible administrative failures leading up to Epstein’s death, this episode offers granular, first-hand insight via OIG interview transcripts, direct quotes, and expert breakdowns.

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Transcript2 lines

[00:00]
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[00:15]
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What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the unnamed CO and their interview with the OIG inspectors. Question. Okay, R D Had to notify them. Answer. Yeah. Now, if it wasn't. If it wasn't like a person who needs a cellie, you don't have to call the lieutenant and tell them that an inmate left, but if you required a cellmate and it's a special case, then everyone knows that the phone should be ringing. But if it's just a regular inmate, somebody got bailed out. It's not that big of a deal. Question. Just to clarify. Let's say the call wasn't made and none of that happened. Now the 10pm Count comes around. Whoever is in the shoe has to do the 10pm count. If they did the count and they know, then there was instruction stating, hey, listen, Epstein needed a cellmate, they did the count, they realized there's not a cellmate. What should they have done? Operations Lieutenant. Okay, you always call Operations Lieutenant, but we can. Shoe staff can move inmates anytime that they want to. You've just got to justify it. So. Question. Understood. Alright, so I'm gonna move on. Why do cos have to come and conduct rounds? It's just a generic question. Why do they have to conduct rounds? To check on the well being of inmates. What about the counts? Counts? To make sure the inmates are alive and well and breathing. Okay, I'm going to move on. Are you aware that there's cameras inside the mcc? Absolutely. Okay. Have you ever utilized it for work? What do you mean? Question. As a lieutenant, have you ever used it to see if a staff movement or gets cut off by the co? No, I always reviewed it with another Lieutenant. Did you know during that time if any of the cameras were down and not working? I wouldn't. I didn't know that. You didn't. Okay. If the cameras were down, whose responsibility was it to get it fixed or to make sure that it's working? Facilities Department. Facilities Department. Yep. Question. Okay, now I'm going to go back. You mentioned that the attorney conference room. You saw Epstein in there and you interacted with him a little bit. Answer. Yeah. Question. Or he asked you for something. How was his mood that day? Answer. He doesn't really talk too much of the time. That I observed him in attorney conference. He's always in his work with his attorneys. Question. Was he annoyed? Was he upset about anything? Did he show any emotion? What are shoe inmates allowed to have in their cell? Give me one second. What are shoe inmates allowed to have in their cell? Answer. Food. Question. Okay. Answer. Food items, commissary items. Question. What kind of commissary items? Answer. Like tuna fish, tea bags? Question. Okay, just food items like that. What about pill bottles? Are they allowed to have pill bottles in there? Answer. Inmates in the special housing unit, some of them are self carrying, and some of them have to get their medication when medical makes rounds. Question. Self carrying meaning? Answer. It's on their person. Question. Okay, was Epstein authorized to have any pills in his cell? I don't know. Question. You don't know? Okay, how many changes of clothing or linen are inmates allowed to have in the shoe? We have shower days Monday, Wednesday and Friday. That's when we did linen exchange and clothing exchange. Question. Are they supposed to. Are they allowed to have multiple spare clothing inside the shoe with them? Answer. We call that nuisance. So there are times they accumulate more than what they they're supposed to have. Question. Okay, so does it happen once in a while? Answer. Yes. Question. Is it a responsibility of the shoe ccos to make sure that. That not too many clothing or linens are in that cell? Answer yes. Question. Okay, and if there is, what do they do? Answer. Well, if you have 100 inmates in the special housing unit, you know, cell searches are not conducted every day on the same inmate. Question. Okay. Answer. So cell searches are spread out. So, like, say if you do a shakedown on cell one on Monday, you may get the cell 10 on Thursday. So you know what I'm saying? You might not have seen it. Exactly. They might not have seen it. Okay. How is Epstein's interaction with the other inmates? I don't know. Okay. I wouldn't know that. Do you know if there was any threats made to Epstein? I don't know. Okay, these are generic questions that. That I have to get through. Did you know why Epstein was in prison? Answer. Pornography, pedophile allegations, and charges like that? Question. Did you have any specific feelings in regarding why he was in prison? Answer. Don't care. Question. Okay, did you speak about Epstein with other inmates? Answer, don't care. Question. When you came back to work the next day, August 10th, what shift did you come back to? 8, 4. Question. 8, 4. When you showed up, was Epstein still there or was he already at the hospital? Well, I wouldn't know because when everything happened, I wasn't on shift anyway, so I'm not sure. No, but you came in at 8am Was the ambulance gone? Everyone left from there. I don't remember. Okay. Did you respond to his cell? Did you go to his cell at all? No. Okay. Do you have any other questions? Yeah. So to go back to the count, when he was talking about trying to get you to put that Rubik's Cubes together. Yeah. Question. You know, so if these were falsified. So let's say, you know, he kind of pointed out, like, at some point it looks like somebody left. We don't know exactly when that was. So let's say 4pm, 10pm and 12am were falsified. Who'd be responsible for falsifying that? Everybody in the shoe. Answer no. Whoever's names were on the count slips. Question. So if there's like, four people on the shoe, though, it would be the two people on the count slip, not the other two people. Answer. That is correct. Question. All right? And that's just so it doesn't have to be, like, big, hey, we're not doing counts today. They wouldn't tell the other people we're not doing them. Will the other two people know that they didn't conduct the counts? Answer. Not necessarily. Because things are happening. Question. Okay, answer. So if there are four people in the shoe, like, no one's babysitting. Like, I'm not hovering over you. Like, we have a job to do. You're counting. I could be over there prepping the meals so, you know, like, you're not on my back saying, hey, are you getting the meals today? Like, you're counting. I'm doing food trays. Okay. And about how long does a count take to count inmates? About 15 to 20 minutes, if it's a smooth count. Okay, and what about for a round? How long does a round take on a tier or altogether? Question in the shoe. So I'm talking specific to the shoe. Both instances. Answer rounds. Let me see, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12. Maybe take you about 12 to 15 minutes. Question. So they're roughly the same. Answer for a smooth round. Now, if you're doing rounds and inmates are stopping you, then, you know, it can take longer. Okay, now, rounds, I've heard some instances where if people go down the range to deal with something, they could potentially count that as a round is that gets cut off by the co. Answer. So, like, that is correct. Say, for instance, if an inmate's saying he needs a roll of tissue and you get the tissues and you go on the tier and you're like, oh, and his tear is all the way in the corner. Me, I would have the roll of tissue, I would look at every inmate, give you your tissue, keep going. Killing two birds with one stone. Perfect. And you don't actually have to check in with them when you're doing around like, hey, you good? You good? You good? You just look. Answer. So no rounds, Officer. Three rounds. It's the inmates. Like, we're here. So I'm on your door. You know, I'm an officer. If you need something, say something. You know, if someone in there doing jumping jacks, push ups, you know. Question. Whereas the count, you actually need to check in and say he gets cut off now by the guard. The counts where we're checking for inmates are standing up for count, making sure that they're facing you. We need to see live, breathing bodies. So question and how, how you do it at 12:00am, 3:00am and 5:00am do you guys wake them up? They see flashlights. Yeah. So you actually have the people wake up. So like if the inmates, they don't have to stand up. It's not a stand up count only night. So if they're laying down and some have the covers over their head, knock, they'll pull the sheets over. You see their face, they move. You're seeing movement, you're seeing they're alive. Breathing bodies. Question. Okay, but they do actually have to knock. They do have to see them move. Answer. Yes. Question. Okay, can you show her that email? Do you have that email? Okay. And this is an email that went from. And you said psychology from. Really should have made that psychology. Sent it out, it looks like almost to all the lieutenants saying that Epstein was required to have a cellmate. Answer. Yup. Question. And that was on July 30th of 2019. Answer. Okay. Question. You've never seen that. Correct. Answer. That is correct. Question. All right, so that went out. Now all the lieutenants know. You can kind of flip the page, kind of see everybody that that was on it. Who should have told you about that. Answer. As an officer. Question. As an acting. You're now acting as a lieutenant. Whose responsibility was it to tell you as an acting lieutenant, he gets cut off by her answer. Operations. Although I'm acting, I don't get lieutenant emails because I'm not an official lieutenant. Questions of that day redacted. Should have told you. Hey, by the way. Yes. And how often in August leading up to that? So from July 30th until August 9th. How often were you an acting lieutenant? Answer I do off and on for overtime, so I would have to look at the roster. If I was on activities that day, I was activities that day. Question Was it quite often around that time because we were short lieutenants? I would say at least maybe less. Once, twice a month I did activities. Lieutenant Question Once or twice a month? Answer yes. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.