Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed CO/Lieutenant (Part 8) (5/24/26)

Summary

The Epstein Chronicles

Host: Bobby Capucci
Episode: Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed CO/Lieutenant (Part 8)
Date: May 24, 2026

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Overview

This episode continues Bobby Capucci’s deep-dive into the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) interviews concerning the circumstances around Jeffrey Epstein’s death at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC). In this installment, Capucci breaks down the testimony of an unnamed Correctional Officer (CO)/Acting Lieutenant who worked at MCC during the critical time in July and August 2019, focusing on responsibility, communication failures, and systemic issues within the Bureau of Prisons (BOP).

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Key Discussion Points

1. Chain of Command and Communication Failures

(Starts at 00:45)

• The unnamed officer describes how information should flow through the ranks at MCC.
  • If a lieutenant or captain is on shift, communication about issues (like equipment malfunction) should be relayed to all relevant officers.
  • Frequent changes in shift and unclear handoffs left gaps in who knew what, especially regarding camera operations and key security matters.

Notable Exchange:

• Q: “So, should the captain have told you as well then?”
  A: “The captain can always communicate with his lieutenants. Always.” (01:40)

• The CO emphasizes that acting lieutenants bear shared responsibility:

  • “If I’m acting that day, then it's his or her responsibility to include me in what’s going on.” (02:00)

2. SHU (Special Housing Unit) Camera Inoperability

(Approx. 02:20–03:30)

• The CO testifies they were unaware the SHU camera was down.
  • Only obvious physical damage is detectable on-site; typically, only the control center or facilities department would notice a malfunction.
  • There’s confusion and lack of clarity about who should prioritize the repair and notification when cameras go out.

Memorable Quote:

• “If you’re in the SHU, you don’t know that the cameras are inoperable unless, like, it’s broken, like, you see a crack. But just if it looks like a camera, you don’t know if it’s inoperable.” (03:05)

• The maintenance crew is large and no one person or role is given as directly responsible.

• No specific memory of crew fixing cameras in the SHU around that time.

3. Perception of Epstein’s Death and Contributing Factors

(03:45–05:13)

• The CO states explicitly that they did not find anything suspicious about Epstein’s death, nor express a specific opinion on the matter.

  • They stress a focus on doing their job, treating all inmates equally, and not concerning themselves with high-profile cases.

• However, the CO does acknowledge that “mistakes were made”:

  • Failing to conduct the official counts at required times is a glaring failure.
  • The CO underscores that counting inmates is the primary task of correctional officers:
    “If I’m not counting inmates, I should just stay home.” (05:08)

• The officer avoids suggesting conspiracy but accepts that violations of essential procedure (counts, rounds) represent serious shortcomings.

4. Policy Violations and Final Thoughts from the Interviewee

(05:13–end of testimony around 06:45)

• When pressed further, the CO does not recall any specific policy violations or unauthorized items in Epstein’s possession.
• The OIG agent closes the interview, remarking on the cumulative sense that “something was amiss” during the night of Epstein’s death.

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Host Commentary and Analysis

Systemic Failure or Something More?

(Begins at 07:56)

• Capucci turns a critical eye to systemic issues within the BOP.

  • He questions why, after such a highly publicized failure, there hasn’t been a significant overhaul in staffing, pay, or leadership.
  • “You mean to tell me people don’t want a federal job where they’re going to get a pension? How about we up the pay a little bit?” (08:23)

• Capucci argues that, unlike other high-profile inmates (El Chapo, Ramsay Youssef, etc.), only Epstein (and, ironically, Whitey Bulger) “met their fate” under mysterious circumstances at MCC, despite the supposed 'perfect storm' justification.

  • “Their cameras don’t go out, they don’t get put in a cell with a four-time murderer... None of that happened. Right. Only to Jeffrey Epstein.” (09:10)

• He expresses skepticism about the “perfect storm” narrative, suggesting that, even if not an overt conspiracy, conditions were uniquely ripe for catastrophic failure.

  • “Now, they might not be involved as far as it being a big plot... but the situation could have been set up. The table could have been set.” (09:54)

• Capucci questions the abundance of “I don’t recall” responses in interviews, implying that lack of clarity breeds suspicion.

Quote:

• “It doesn’t really give me confidence that everything is what they say it is.” (10:20)

Ongoing Commitment to Investigation

• Capucci pledges to continue analyzing depositions and interviews, “peeling this onion back one layer at a time,” determined to pursue answers regarding Epstein's death.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “The captain can always communicate with his lieutenants. Always.” — Unnamed CO (01:40)
• “If I’m not counting inmates, I should just stay home.” — Unnamed CO (05:08)
• “It’s obvious that there’s a lot more going on here. And if it’s the perfect storm that they said, then they need to fix it.” — Bobby Capucci (09:54)
• “It doesn’t really give me confidence that everything is what they say it is.” — Bobby Capucci (10:20)

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Summary Flow

• The OIG interview reveals a culture of unclear communication and accountability within MCC, particularly concerning camera failures and mandatory inmate counts.
• The interviewed CO refrains from asserting conspiracy but admits to procedural mistakes.
• Capucci builds on these admissions to challenge the adequacy of the 'systemic failure' narrative and the lack of substantive change in the BOP.
• The episode closes with Capucci’s commitment to continued, unvarnished coverage and skepticism regarding official explanations.

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For further reference: All relevant documents and materials from the episode are available in the description box of the podcast posting.

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Transcript

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[Podcast Host]

what's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Unamco and her interview with the OIG investigators. Question all right, so being that this was only July 30 to August 9, answer maybe twice. Question possible twice? Answer yeah, two, three times probably. Question do you think it's being that the lieutenants or the ops lieutenants and activities lieutenants should have someone told you? Answer Absolutely. Question okay, and in this case when you're working, it should have been redacted. Answer yes. Question all right, so redacted, should have told you. Answer yes Question all right. And as far as Nope, never mind. Those were my follow ups. Let me just look at this. Now. In any of those instances, would the captain be responsible or does it always do you think it's really the ops lieutenant Answer Captain Question the captain would be responsible. So should the captain have told you as well then? Answer the captain can always communicate with his lieutenants. Always. Question okay, but as an acting lieutenant, I mean Question oh, absolutely. If I'm an if I'm acting that day, then it's his or her responsibility to include me in what's going on. Question okay, so what about in this instance where you didn't start until, I think, later in the day? Answer yeah. Question Captain's gone. So would it he gets cut off by the guard. I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm still on that floor and he's gone Question so it should have been again at the ops Is there a shoe lieutenant? Answer There's a shoe lieutenant, but I don't think that day that we had one question what's lieutenant Vice, the shoe lieutenant? Answer I don't remember. Who was the shoe lieutenant at the time? Question if there was a shoe lieutenant was what was the normal schedule like? What would have been their schedule 6 to 2 and 7 to 3. Question okay, so they would have been gone before you came to your shift? Answer yeah. Question. If it had been their responsibility to make sure that since you're coming into the shoe to work as lieutenant, would that have been their responsibility to pass that message onto you? Answer yeah. Question and did you say you were unaware that the arranged camera in the shoe was down? Answer that is correct. Question and whose responsibility would it have been? Would the people working in the shoe know that it was down? Answer so if you're in the shoe, you don't know that the cameras are inoperable unless, like, it's broken, like, you see a crack, but just if it looks like a camera, you don't know if it's inoperable. So a facility's responsibility to fix the cameras. Now, if you're in the control center and you see a camera out, then you notify. Indiscernible. Question and if you're in the facilities and you're told that the camera is out, about how quickly should that camera be fixed? Answer I'm not sure what the time frames are, but, you know, certain things. I don't know if a shoe camera takes priority over a general population camera. I don't know. But work orders have to be submitted. You know, staff have to be around. So, you know, it just really depends on. On what the job is. Question, okay, and do you know if anybody in facilities specifically would be responsible for doing it? Answer well, facilities is a big crew of individuals, so whoever they designate to fix the cameras, it could be anybody. Question okay, anything else? The other investigator jumps in. Did you see any maintenance happening with the camera during that time? Any crews coming in there to fix the cameras? Any. Anything like that? Answer I mean, it's a prison. I mean, everyone works on everything. You know what I'm saying? But do I recall, like, facilities being in the shoe that day? I can't tell you that. Yes or no, because I really just don't remember. You know what I'm saying? Question now, do you find anything suspicious with the death of Epstein yourself, like the fact, you know, different counts, cameras down, things like that? Answer no. Question no. So what's your opinion on the matter? Answer I really don't have an opinion. I just feel like, you know, I came to work, I try to do my job the best way I can. You know, my goal is to come in, do what I need to do, go the extra mile and just go home in one piece. I don't focus on specific inmates and what their Crime is I treat everybody with respect and I just want to go home. Question and like do you think somebody dropped the ball here? Do you think that there's somebody that's responsible in this matter from the limited information that you know. Answer. Are you asking me my opinion? Question from. But like an educated opinion based upon what we've talked about and what you've been able to gather and working there, being on duty that August night. Answer Sure. I mean in my honest opinion, I do think that some mistakes were made. Some honest mistakes were made on certain individuals Parts. Absolutely. I mean it's clear that mistakes were made. You know, it's proof is there that mistakes were made. Sure. Now it's the 4pm 10pm 12am 3am 5am counts weren't conducted. If they weren't, how serious do you think that is? I get paid to count inmates question. Right. So if I'm not counting inmates, I should just stay home. Okay. So is that like gets cut off by the guard count as the primary reason why we're correctional officers are to account for the inmates. Okay. I like it. That's a good statement. And what about rounds? If the rounds weren't conducted the same? Absolutely. Okay. Rounds are equally as important. Absolutely. Are you aware of any policy violation or or things like that at mcc? Answer no question. That's all I have. The next investigator jumps back in. Anything else you want? Did you ask her about the pills and stuff like that? Anything else that you know that he had and that he shouldn't have had? Answer no question. Okay. Anything else you want to add? Answer no question. Okay. It's 4:47pm on Monday June 14, 2021. This is Senior special Agent redacted and I'm turning off the recorder and I think it's rather obvious from the statements that have been made by the people that were working the night that Jeffrey Epstein died that something was amiss

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[Podcast Host]

And if they want to blame it on systemic issues and the fact that everything collapsed at once, then how come that wasn't fixed? How come there hasn't been Some gigantic reorganization of the bop. How come we haven't had, you know, a whole new regime come in and sweep clean all the bad things that were happening? How come there hasn't been a gigantic push to get people hired in those positions that they say are open? You mean to tell me people don't want a federal job where they're going to get a pension? How about we up the pay a little bit? Seems to me that that kind of job should require somebody that's making a couple of bucks, right? If we want the job to be done correctly. And I think it's pretty important that we get things right. We have somebody locked in prison, in jail, whether it's Epstein or anyone else, there should be a reasonable expectation that that person's going to be reasonably safe inside of that jail. Now, of course things happen. And when you're locked into a, a cell or a jailhouse with a bunch of crazy lunatics can pop off real quick, but I think that there needs to be an effort made to safeguard people's safety. And what we saw with Jeffrey Epstein we haven't seen with any other high level inmate. Go back and look at all the high level inmates that we've seen incarcerated, locked up, and you tell me which one has met their fate the same way Epstein did? Oh, wait, Whitey Bulger, which is ironic, isn't it? Another guy that had the goods on the government ends up getting clipped while he's behind bars. So Whitey Bulger, Jeffrey Epstein, they both get clipped. But El Chapo, El Mayo, Vinny, Gorgeous, Ramsay Youssef, you name it. They all have a great life, huh? No problems while they're at mcc. Their cameras don't go out, they don't get put in a cell with a four time murderer who got nailed for contraband, having a phone in his cell two weeks prior. Yeah, none of that happened, Right. Only to Jeffrey Epstein. And then they come to us with the whole nonsensical pitch that it was just, you know, the perfect storm. And I think it's obvious that there's a lot more going on here. And if it's the perfect storm that they said, then they need to fix it. But my opinion is that things weren't as bad systemically as they say, and that there was a lot of people that were involved. Now, they might not be involved as far as it being a big plot and everybody's in on some kind of scheme to kill Epstein. That's not what I mean. But the situation could have been set up. The table could have been set. And when you look at all these different interviews and you hear from all these guards and all these people and all their oh, I don't recalls, it doesn't really give me confidence that everything is what they say it is. So what we're going to keep doing is keep diving into these depositions, keep diving into these interviews as we continue to peel this onion back one layer at a time. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

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