← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC CO/Lieutenant (Part 2) (5/21/26)
00:12:57
In a sworn interview with DOJ Office of Inspector General investigators conducted on June 14, 2021, an unnamed lieutenant and former correctional officer from MCC New York was questioned as part of the investigation into Jeffrey Epstein’s death and...
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Epstein Chronicles Interviewer
Visit your nearby Lowes Foreign what's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right back in to the interview given by the unnamed CO from MCC to the OIG investigators. Question. Okay, answer. And in special housing unit, we should be walking every single tier, speaking with every single inmate as a lieutenant making rounds in a special housing unit. Can you kind of explain that a little bit? Okay, so during the shift, should a lieutenant be going to the special housing unit? That is correct. And actually doing that? Answer yeah. So in general population, that's the opposite of special housing. When you make a round, like, you don't have to hit. So let's say that they have eight tiers. Tier 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. You make a round, you check on the officer, and then you're in the unit, but you're not because inmates are out and about. So it's not about walking every tier because the inmates are out, but in special. I'm sorry, I'm just dramatic with my hands. So in the special housing, inmates are locked down. So it's our responsibility to go up on the tier and go to every door and speak to every inmate because it's not general population. It's not like they can. When you come out to the unit, when they come out and say, hey, Lieutenant, I got a question. That's the reason why we've got to go to them. Question so the lieutenant does that, though. Answer yeah, Question all right, answer. For around once a shift. Question. So every shift a lieutenant should be actually in the special housing unit, checking on the he gets cut off by the guard. Yes. Question. Is that in policy or. Or is that something new? Question. It's now post order. It was the post order at Danbury. I know that for sure. Question. And who is it that's actually responsible for doing that? Which lieutenant? So for instance, each shift, which is the lieutenant that should be doing like a rounder account? Did you say it was a rounder account? Answer either one. One is good enough. So operations lieutenant is the highest ranking officer on shift on, on evening watch. So as an aid acting as a lieutenant, like when I'm finished with my shift, I'll go check in with him and I'll say, hey, do, do you need me? He'll go, okay, I need you to take the count and control F4. I need you to move this inmate from special housing unit to suicide watch. I need you to move this inmate over here. And then after that I need you to make sure that all the food carts get up on time. So I'm kind of like taking direction from the operations lieutenant. And then we'll say something like, hey, who's going to shoe, me or you? Oh, you go to the shoe hit all of this. I'm going to be doing this. It's kind of like you guys are. Question. But every shift a lieutenant should be in the special housing unit checking in with each inmate. Answer yes. Question. Even like midnight to 6am Answer. Well, overnight is kind of different because you're not. You're making a round but you're not tapping on every. So like if you're making a round in special housing unit and I'm walking past a cell and he's like writing a letter or something, right? And the other one is like doing some jumping jacks and I'll show my face at the door. You guys good? Yeah, I'm good. I'll keep it moving. I'm not like, hey, do you have any issues? Tell me now. It's like, you know what I'm saying? You make yourself present, they know who you are and that's the opportunity for them to say what they need to say if they have any issues or anything like that. But even from like 10pm to 6am because they're probably sleeping between then, right? Yeah, but so you're still making a round and basically looking for live breathing bodies. Okay, so. And the lieutenant should be doing that every night. Yeah. Question. Alright. I'm not really sure about the morning shift. I'm not a fan of morning watch. I didn't work too much of the morning watch. So that 10pm to 6am you're not exactly sure? I'm not sure at nines they don't work overnight anyway because there's only one lieutenant on and that's only an 11. Nine leaves at 10 every day. Question. But basically from the hours of 6am to 10pm a lieutenant on each shift is going to check in. Yeah. Question on August 9th, from when you were acting, when you were activities, Lieutenant, did you supervise any counts? No, I don't remember supervising any counts. Okay, when you came on, what are the count times at MCC on weekends and holidays? It's 10am every day. 4, 10, 12:01, 3am and 5am what about weekdays? Same time, but a 10am Count in the morning. So the 4, the 12 and the 5. Excuse me, it's every day, but. But in addition, on the weekends and holidays we have a 10am count. So you said you did not conduct a count on August 9th? I don't remember. I can't say I don't remember that. I'm only following this up because you said that you were supposed to. No, no. He cuts her off. Maybe one of the other lieutenants did. I don't remember who specifically me or redacted. Took the count to control. In control? Yeah, in the control center. I thought you said that they're also supposed to go to the doors and knock and see a lieutenant's face in the shoe. In the shoe. But that's not a count. Okay? That's a round. That's just when you make your lieutenant rounds. Okay, so did you do a round? Yeah. I didn't observe the count and the special housing unit, but I do recall making a round and hitting every tier. Question do you remember around when you conducted that round on the 9th? Answer. I remember around like 8. So I want to say it was between like maybe 5 and 8 around that time. Question somewhere between 5 and 8pm you were in the attorney conference room before that, right? Answer yeah. Question Was Jeffrey Epstein in there? Yes. Who was meeting with him? Answer. A bunch of attorneys on a daily basis, he always met with a bunch of attorneys. How many attorneys were with him that day? I can't even tell you how many. But it's never just one. It's always more than one attorney. Did you interact with them that day? Like when you were doing attorney conference, did you speak to you? He had a bladder issue. So because I'm a female staff, he had to use the restroom frequently. So I would call the male staff over to help me. So in that time I would have to call him to the door, put the cuffs on him, pop the door and he would use the bathroom. But a male staff would be with me and him to do that and it would be the same gender. So I remember him being an attorney conference. Question when you were doing the evening count while evening rounds, lieutenant rounds, was was he back in his cell? Answer no, he was still and he always did open to close in attorney conference. Question okay, we'll come back to that. Do you have any other questions on that topic? Answer if you're going to come back. But I would just say that the time did he leave? Well, I just said it. Answer yeah. Question what time did he leave? Answer about 8 because attorney conference ends at 8 and 95% of the time when I was there, he was always there from start to finish. Question okay. Answer with attorneys, though, those were attorney conference hours and he always did all the hours. Question when you were as a lieutenant, when you supervised employees, how many employees did you have under you? Answer on the evening watch, shift or day watch? It just really depends. If you're working day watch and have more staff on, it would be over 50. Question have you ever had like any instruction or anything that came from up above any any orders and you had to pass it on to people that report to you? Yeah. Question how would you do it? We would usually do conference calls. Question how do you do conference calls and how does that work? Explain that. Yep, the phones that we have, we just press three times and then whoever presses three, we all hear each other. We call those conference calls.
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- [10:24]
Epstein Chronicles Interviewer
Visit your nearby Lowe's. Answer. We make announcements over the PA system, but if it's like pertinent information, we do the conference calls. And also the kind of individual where I repeat the same thing over and over again. So when I made a round and I saw every officer, I would say the same thing over and over. You know, sometimes people miss conference calls. I was in the bathroom, I was doing this. So this is pertinent information. So face to face and conference calls. Question. Okay, if there was any instruction or guidance from upper management, how would they give it to you? How would they pass it on to you? They would pass it on to me. As an officer or as a 9 lieutenant. Let's do both since you can speak about both. Okay, as an officer, how would you get it? As an officer? They would tell the captain who would then tell the operations lieutenant and then inform the officers if the officer is needed to know. I mean as an officer would we all have a line staff? We didn't always know, we didn't need to know the gist of everything. So like say for instance, that night we had a high profile inmate coming in. We would find out then we're doing our round and, or working the unit like, oh, you're the one that was on the news. Okay, so we didn't know everything that was going on. Question. Okay, and that's an officer. What about as a lieutenant? Answer. Being a nine? I mean if you happen to be in the office at the time that, that the captain was telling operations, then you'll get wind of it. If not, then if I was walking around or out and about and I would see the operations and he or she will call and say, I've got some information to tell you, come on down here. The captain just told me X and Y and Z. So we're going to do Z, Y and Z tonight. Okay. So it's basically the Captain tells the ops Lieutenant, the ops Lieutenant disseminates to everybody else. Question. All right, so it's not like the captain's responsible for telling everyone else. Answer no Question. The ops Lieutenant really is. That is correct. Question okay, Answer. I mean the captain communicates with staff as well. But you know, the chain of command is inform an operations Lieutenant Question. Okay? And then it's really the operations Lieutenant position. Okay? Question. So what if it was a different shift, Something got passed down to the operations Lieutenant in the morning from the captain and now it's coming up on evening shift. How does that get passed down? Because what if the captain doesn't get a chance to Meet with the operations lieutenant that works the evening shift. Answer. You're saying that like at 8 in the morning. Question. Let's say at 8 in the morning, there's an order of guidance that comes down to the operations lieutenant. And now that needs to be spread out to the evening shift and the night watch, right? Answer. Yeah. Question. Well, let's talk about specifics. So if you got right here, you're looking at August 9th and you've got redacted, who, I'm assuming, sorry, redacted. Who would be here from. It looks like 8 to 4, he was 7 to 3. Question. 7 to 3. So he's on duty and right there he's got. Who's the ops lieutenant there? That's the captain. Answer. Ops lieutenant is redacted. Question. So redacted is what he's asking is if there's no overlap with redacted, since he starts at 8, how does the information get to redacted? Answer. So redacted would be responsible to let redacted know everything that has happened and what needs to be done. Question. All right. And is that every day? Is it if redacted is. Or what am I saying? If redacted. Sorry, I'm reading this upside down. Is redacted always gone by three, or does he ever have to overlap with the four o' clock? Lieutenant? Answer. I mean, people stay, you know, when they need to, whether it's paperwork or whatever. But I've never tracked a captain's body, you know. Question. So your understanding, though, is pretty much that this is redacted would be like the primary answer. Oh, yes. Question. And then he understands. And then redacted's role and he understands it would be to relay whatever information needed to redacted. Answer. Yes. Question. Okay, all right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode, dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
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