Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 14) (5/4/26)

Summary

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The Epstein Chronicles - Inside the OIG Interview: The Testimony of an Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 14)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Episode Date: May 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Bobby Capucci continues his deep dive into the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) interview with an unnamed Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) lieutenant regarding the incarceration, treatment, and final days of Jeffrey Epstein. The discussion pulls back the curtain on prison practices, Epstein’s interactions, and the persistent questions about the adequacy of his supervision, aiming to clarify facts amid ongoing suspicions about Epstein’s death in custody.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Epstein’s Medication, Clothing, and Linens in the SHU

Timestamp: 01:00–04:30

• Medication in the Special Housing Unit (SHU):

  • Inmates are generally allowed medication, sometimes as "self-carry" (i.e., keeping pill bottles in their cells), not considered abnormal.

  • Noted risk of overdosing depends on the medication and is supposed to be monitored by medical staff.

    “Inmates have medication... Some have self-carrying medicines. That’s not abnormal for them to have their own pill bottles and things like that in the shoe.”
    —Unamed Lieutenant [01:09]

• Permissible Items in Cell:

  • Standard issue includes T-shirt, boxers, washcloth, towel, typically two sheets and two blankets depending on season.

  • Number is adjustable (for example, in winter, extra blankets could sometimes be allowed).

    “Would it never be authorized to have more than two each?”
    “I don’t know about four, but an extra blanket, I heard that. Especially in the winter time.”
    —Unnamed Lieutenant [03:10]

• Oversight on Inmate’s Belongings:

  • Responsibility for monitoring linen/clothing not clearly defined; typically handled by SHU staff, not the lieutenant.

  • It’s supposed to be a one-for-one exchange system but there’s uncertainty about who ensures compliance.

    “I don’t know who’s responsible to keep an eye on his things though... staff... yeah, indiscernible responsibility, I guess.”
    —Unnamed Lieutenant [04:40]

2. Epstein’s Interactions and Movement within MCC

Timestamp: 04:50–09:10

• Initial Placement & General Population:

  • Contrary to some claims, Epstein began in general population for "a day or two" before being moved to the SHU after expressing safety concerns.

    “People that tell us he was in the shoe the entire time are incorrect. When he first got through, he was in general population.”
    —Investigator & Unnamed Lieutenant [06:07]

• Move to the SHU:

  • The move was prompted by Epstein’s expressed anxiety about other inmates knowing who he was from media coverage.

  • Epstein’s concerns were passed along by an officer to the lieutenant, who then alerted higher staff, leading to his transfer.

    “He told me some guy, he was nervous because his face was on the TV and guys might try to intimidate him. That’s about it though.”
    —Unnamed Lieutenant [06:22]

3. Recollections of Last Interactions with Epstein

Timestamp: 09:15–13:05

• Uncertainty Surrounding Last Contact:

  • Lieutenant could not recall with certainty if he interacted with Epstein on August 9 (the day before Epstein’s death), citing the routine nature of those duties and the passage of time.

    “So again, dude dies the next day, you can’t remember if the day before you talked with this guy when it’s like the biggest case ever?”
    “Yeah... I can’t remember if I spoke to that dude that day.”
    —Investigator & Unnamed Lieutenant [10:45–11:10]

• Epstein’s Routine:

  • Spent most days in the attorney conference room from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM, frequently seen sleeping or lying on the table while his lawyer was present.

  • Lieutenant would see him occasionally but only interacted for logistical reasons, like escort to/from SHU.

    “He used to be there [attorney conference] from eight in the morning all day to evening watch.”
    —Unnamed Lieutenant [12:17]

4. Supervision, Watch Status, and Cell Placement

Timestamp: 13:15–16:56

• Suicide Watch & Cellmate Policy:

  • Epstein was eager to get off suicide watch, expressing complaints about being there and wanting his clothing back.

  • Officer did not recall Epstein saying he wanted to be in a different location.

    “He was just saying why you guys got me. Like, I’m like, well, you talk to psych and then they’ll talk to you.”
    —Unnamed Lieutenant [13:49]

• Camera Cells Discussion:

  • Not all high-risk inmates (suicide attempt or "hot list") are placed in camera-monitored cells ("G tier," "10 South").

  • Single-occupancy camera cells are not standard for such inmates unless dictated by policy, and constant camera monitoring is not feasible.

    “You think that it would have just been as risky, if not more risky, with him being on G tier or 10 south?”
    “Yeah.”
    —Investigator & Unnamed Lieutenant [16:18]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Some have self-carrying medicines. That’s not abnormal for them to have their own pill bottles..." —Unnamed Lieutenant [01:12]
• "I don’t know who’s responsible to keep an eye on his things though... staff... yeah, indiscernible responsibility, I guess." —Unnamed Lieutenant [04:40]
• "When he first got through, he was in general population... a day or two." —Unnamed Lieutenant [06:07]
• "So again, dude dies the next day, you can’t remember if the day before you talked with this guy when it’s like the biggest case ever?... That kind of sparks a little suspicion." —Investigator [10:45]
• "He used to be there [attorney conference] from 8 in the morning all day to evening watch... sometimes you see him in there, he’s just lying on the table, his lawyer is right there." —Unnamed Lieutenant [12:17]
• "No one can watch someone all the time." —Unnamed Lieutenant [16:25]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:00 – Medication policy in the SHU for Epstein and others
• 03:10 – Allowance and monitoring of linens/clothing in inmate cells
• 06:07 – Epstein’s brief time in general population & subsequent move
• 10:45 – Investigator presses on witness’s recollection of last contact with Epstein
• 12:17 – Epstein’s daily routine and behavior in attorney conference
• 13:49 – Epstein’s attitude about suicide watch and custody assignment
• 16:18 – Discussion on surveillance, camera cells, and adequacy of monitoring

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is methodical yet pressed, with the OIG and investigators probing inconsistencies, gaps in memory, and policy ambiguity about how Epstein was handled inside MCC. The lieutenant's uncertainty and the lack of clear lines of responsibility further fuel suspicions about systemic oversight failures, reinforcing the podcast’s tone of skepticism about the official narrative around Jeffrey Epstein’s death.

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For further reference and supporting documents, see the episode's description box as directed by the host at the close of the main content.

Transcript

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play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Yes you can. A five minute quick and easy calorie burning workout. Give it a try. Come join our sweat sesh on tick tock. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're diving right back in to the interview with the unnamed lieutenant from McCarthy and the OIG inspectors. Question okay, all right. Do you know anything about Epstein being authorized to have pills in his cell in the shoe? Answer Pillows? Question no pills? Answer Nah. Question pills like medication? Answer no. Question should have he been allowed medication in his cell? Answer I mean, inmates have medication. Question they do. Answer yeah. Question so in the shoe they're allowed to have medication? Answer yeah Question Is there ever a problem with like ODing or anything like that? Answer I mean, if it's depending on the medication, medical gives it to them. Question okay. Answer Some have self carrying medicines. Question all right, and so that and that's not abnormal for them to have their own pill bottles and things like that in the shoe? Answer no. Question what can an inmate have in their cell in the shoe? Answer T shirt, boxers, washcloths, a towel, depending on what the season, Two blankets, two sheets Question so they can have two blankets and two sheets? Answer Dependent on the weather. Question okay. Answer and how much is available? Question what about August? How many blankets and sheets could have they had? Answer how many could they have had? Question or are they allowed to have had? Answer it depends. Some of them, it depends. If they say hey let me keep it two and two. Let them keep it. Question okay Answer I say, hey, you need to, you know, they go down to one Question Would it never be authorized to have more than two each? Answer how many? Like an extra blanket or something? Answer yeah, like if three blankets or four blankets. Answer I know, I don't know about four, but an extra blanket, I heard that. Especially in the winter time. Depending on the cells. Question what about in August? Answer an extra blanket? Question or extra linen? Answer no. Question yeah, what about extra clothing? Answer I mean it wouldn't be authorized, but they could get It. Question how would they get it? Answer. They could get it. They could fish it themselves. Inmates. Question. You mean they can like throw a cord over like he gets cut off by the lieutenant? Yeah. Question all right. And would that be caught on the cell search if they were being conducted though? Answer not all the time. Question no. Answer no. Question and how would they miss that? Answer. What if they don't search the solve today? Question no, I'm saying during the cell searches, like if they search the cell. Question. If they see the fishing line. Yeah. Question no, no. If they see a fishing line. But if the cell is being searched, he gets cut off by the lieutenant. And it has excessive linen. Question and it has. Would they take it at that point? Answer yeah, usually they take it. Question okay. Anything else? They're allowed to have books, food. Yeah. Alright. Do you know if Epstein was given any special privileges to have extra clothing or extra linen? No. No. Do you know if he had extra clothing or extra linen? No. Who was making sure that Epstein had the correct amount of clothing and linens? Not sure. Would it be like the shoe staff or the lieutenant or all of the above? The shoe Lieutenant I'm not sure. Working in the shoe though, or previously, you don't know who would he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Who is monitoring it? I mean the inspector jumps in like who would be. Who's responsible? Not let sounds like looks like no one was monitoring it. But who was actually responsible to make sure him and these guys aren't supposed to have that many, that much clothing or linen. Answer I'm not sure because when we used to do linen, you give them three, I give you three. That's how we used to monitor it. Question yes. It's supposed to be like a one for one exchange. Answer yeah, so I don't know who's responsible to keep an eye on his things though. I gets cut off. Typically, who provides the inmates with their linens? The investigator asks. Answer staff. Question do lieutenants ever do that? Answer no, not really. Question so it would be the staff that's responsible then? Answer yeah, that's why I say indiscernible responsibility. I guess. Then question okay. Does the shoe lieutenant ever do it? Answer I mean it could. I could if I wanted to. Question yeah, but typically would it be the shoe staff? Answer yeah. Question okay. Any idea how Epstein's interactions would were with other inmates? Did he ever have interactions with other inmates? Really? I don't know. I know when he first got there, he told me some guy, he was nervous because his Face was on the TV and guys might try to intimidate him. That's about it though. Question. That was something he, Epstein specifically told you? He told the officer and then the officer told me. He said, hey, I didn't know who he was. I was like, alright, let me look into it. And then they moved him. Where was he? He was on his first unit, I think was 11 north. So he was in general population when he first got here? Yeah. Alright, so people that tell us that he was in the shoe the entire time are incorrect. When he first got through, he was in general population. And for how long was he in general pop? Answer. Say about a day or two. Question. Are you the one that actually moved them into the shoe? Answer. No. Question. Who did that? Answer. I don't know. Question. All right, but an officer reported it to you and then you he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah, I know he was in general population. Question. And what did you do with the information when that was told? Answer. What? Question. You said an officer said he's worried about safety. Answer. Yeah, I spoke to him. Question. You spoke to Epstein? Answer. I wanted to know. I said what was going on. I said, all right, we're going to look into this. And then they moved them. Question. Okay. Answer. Yeah. Question. But I guess my question was, did you report that information to someone and then it was a person? Answer. I don't remember. I know I passed it on. I said, hey, this guy, I think he's high profile. Question. Okay. Answer. Look into it. I think by the captain or someone got together and they moved them, put him in a place in the shoe. Question okay, and when was the last time you interacted with Epstein? Answer. I can't recall. Question. Did you have any interaction with him on August 9? Answer. I could have. I don't know. He's right there on the floor. So I could have. Question. But you don't know. So again, dude dies the next day, you can't remember if the day before you talked with this guy when it's like the biggest case ever? Answer. Yeah. Question. You don't remember. Answer. Huh? Because I brung him up to the shoe a few times, but I don't know if I did that day. Question. I'm just saying that kind of sparks a little suspicion. Answer. I know what you're saying. Question. It's like if. It's like you can't even remember the last if you talk to him on that day, the day before. I mean, it's a big case, I get that, but I Mean, you know, I have a job like, you know. Question yeah, I mean I'm just saying that's going to create a little bit. He gets cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah, but I can't remember if I spoke to that dude that day. Question do you remember when the last time you saw him? Answer no. I'm probably assuming that day if he was in attorney conference. Question Is that because you would have visited attorney conference? Answer yeah, the elevator is right there on the third floor here. Attorney conference is there. If I wait right here in the elevator, I see him, he's in the same room every day. Question but you can't remember if you actually spoke with him on that day? Answer no. Question Would you typically speak with him when he was in the attorney conference? Answer the only time I used to speak with him is if to say hey, you can bring this. Hey, you going to shoe? Can you take them up? All right, come on. Question all right, now the other investigator jumps in. Can I ask a question on that Question yeah, please do. Question Just in case, I mean I know you said that you don't remember, but that's his last day. That's the last time you saw him. Do you remember who he was with that day? Answer his lawyers. Question do you remember his demeanor? Answer no Question Was he upset? Was he yelling? Did he complain about anything? Answer he used to sleep a lot. That's all I know. Sometimes you see him in there, he's just lying on the table, his lawyer is right there. Question While he's with his attorneys. Answer he was there. He used to be there from eight in the morning all day to a watch and evening watch. Question around what time would he show up there? Answer early, he'd be the first one there. Question and what time would that be? Answer 8 to 8:30. Question and then what time would he typically go back to the shoe? Answer before or attorney conference over at 8, so about 8. Question so basically 8am to 8pm and who are the people that would take them to the attorney conference and then bring them back to the shoe? Answer I told you, like I said, I done it sometimes. Question yeah. Answer but typically they get the guy ready in shoe, bring him down. If R D's out there, hey, we gotta move him, you know, I'll take him down, whoever's going that way. Did you ever take him there to attorney conference or back to the shoe on August 9th? I don't think so, I can't recall. Were you still at the MCC at around 8pm on August 9? No, I wasn't there at 8. Question and what time do you believe that you left MCC on August 9? Answer between two and four question so sometime between two and four. Answer yeah. Question but you weren't back. So he was in attorney conference all that time. So the last time you possibly could have interacted with him would have been around 8am Correct. Answer I mean interacting, like talking to him? Question Speaking with him. Answer yeah, I don't think I. I can't recall if I spoke. I don't think I spoke to him. I'm not sure if I did or if I didn't.

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The last time would have been, I mean, yeah, if I stepped into attorney conference and said something, but he gets cut off by the investigator. Okay, answer. I don't recall that question. But you don't recall what his demeanor was or state of mind? Answer that day Question yeah, you just mentioned the one thing where he was worried because his, you know, he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah. The first day he got there. Question he told the officer. Answer he's saying, officer, hey, there's this guy up here, his face as well. We get those calls all the time. Question do you know of any other complaints that were made? Did he ever complain to you or you get any other information about it? Answer While he was planning on getting off a suicide watch? That's about it. Question okay, and he was making those complaints to you about getting off of suicide watch? Answer he was just saying why you guys got me. Like, I'm like, well, you talk to psych and then they'll talk to you. And. And they spoke to him and he went back up. Question and that was this complaint about, about being. He gets cut off by the lieutenant. He was saying, why was he in there? He wanted his clothes and, you know, so he didn't want to be on suicide watch. No. Question Is that what you're saying? No, he didn't want to. So he wanted to go back to the shoe? Well, he wanted to go, yeah. Do you know if he wanted to be in the shoe or did he want to be in a different area? Answer I don't know. Question did he ever tell you Answer no, not me. Question do you believe that he was in the correct place in the shoe or do you believe that he should have been on like 10 south or G tier? Answer I mean, he can't be in G Tier. Can't be in 10 South. He's got to have a bunky, right? Answer. Question well, I guess it depends. Do you know what the reason why he would need a bunky? Answer his suicide attempt hot list. Question do you ever put people that are on suicide attempts or hot list in G tier or 10 south so they can have extra eyes on them? Answer I don't think no 1 in 10 south is on the hot list. I don't recall. What about G tier? What's the deal with G Tier? Like who goes, he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Single cells? Question yeah, yeah, but they have cameras in there, right? Every one of them gets just like 10 south. Answer yeah, but nine south, some of the cameras and some of those psych sells. Question do you believe Epstein should have been in a cell with a camera in it? Answer no. Question no. Answer I mean, yeah, if you have to have two, the ones with the camera is single cell. You can't go there, you know? Question so you believe he should have had a cellmate and he should have been in the regular shoe because we've had other people say that he should have been on G Tier, should have been on 10 South. But you believe he gets cut off by the lieutenant. People are saying, I mean, if you try to commit like you just showed me the memo. Right. So either he needs an extra set of eyes on him and then that's even worse. I'm gonna put you in there by yourself, you saying for an extended time Question. I guess, but. So people are saying because officers are watching those people all the time. Are they watching them all the time? Answer. How? Question. On the cameras? I don't know. Answer. No Question. So they're not actually being monitored? Answer. They can't watch. No one can watch someone all the time. No question. Okay, so you think that it would have just been as risky, if not more risky, with him being on G tier or 10 south? Answer. Yeah. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic we're gonna pick up, we'll where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

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