Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed R&D Officer From MCC (Part 3) (5/8/26)

Summary

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The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed R&D Officer From MCC (Part 3)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: May 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this detailed episode, host Bobby Capucci continues to analyze testimony from an unnamed Receiving & Discharge (R&D) corrections officer at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC), as part of the Office of the Inspector General’s (OIG) investigation into Jeffrey Epstein’s death. The focus is on internal paperwork, specifically how inmate movements and court appearances were logged and processed around the time of Epstein’s death, and the procedures for retaining or destroying institutional records. The episode aims to clarify persistent questions about the handling of inmate Reyes, records retention, and chain-of-custody at MCC—raising implications for larger questions of accountability surrounding Epstein’s death.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Court List Procedures & Handling

• Distribution of Court Lists: The officer clarifies that court lists are not emailed widely but are distributed as hard copies to unit officers. ([01:30])

  • Quote:
    “We don’t email it out, we make hard copies. An internal officer comes around that night and gives one to each housing unit.” – R&D Officer ([01:28])

• Timing for Distribution: The list is distributed any time between midnight and 8:00 a.m., typically by 5:00 a.m. after the institution’s count.

• Retention of Court Lists: Court lists are shredded at the end of the day.

  • Quote:
    "Once the list is done for the day, we just shred it. We don’t need it.” ([02:23])

• Exceptions: Only transfer orders (when inmates are moved out to other institutions) are retained.

2. Data Archiving & Accessibility

• If needed later, old court lists may be retrievable only if they remain archived in the system; normally, they aren’t kept. ([02:45])

• Files and Archiving: Specific files, such as those relating to transfers or releases, are archived and could be accessed if connected to inmate movement (like Reyes). ([03:10])

3. Understanding Movement Logs and Codes

• Daily Logs / PP38s: These track institutional movement (inmates going out/in, being moved between units, etc.) ([04:07])

  • Quote:
    "It just tracks movement of who went out of the institution, who went from that unit to what unit, who got keyed out... This just tracks all the movement for that day." ([04:05])

• Pre-Remove Status: Signifies an inmate was removed from the institution, not specifically the reason for removal. ([04:40])

  • E.g., Reyes being marked “pre-remove” at 8:38. This could denote various scenarios (going to court, released, transferred, etc.).
  • No way to discern “why” someone is pre-removed from the log alone:
    • Quote:
      "You just know they were pre-removed. So you don’t know looking at this why they were pre-removed." ([06:25])

• Code Differentiation: Inmates leaving for court could be marked as “hold remove,” “pre-remove,” or in rare cases for other reasons like bail or time served. The logs themselves do not specify. ([07:04])

  • Quote:
    "No, you wouldn’t see WAB on this form… If the inmate went to court and was WAB, we would key him on pre-remove or hold remove." ([07:35])

• Outcount System: Previously, MCC didn’t physically “key out” inmates going to court—they were placed on an outcount (remaining on institutional count until disposition was known). Now, procedures differ. ([13:00])

4. WAB Notation and Process

• Definition of WAB: “WAB” indicates “Will Appear Back,” essentially noting whether an inmate is expected to return after going to court or not.

  • Only visible on Marshal’s documentation, not on MCC internal logs. ([11:35])

• Marshal Communication: Only after receiving documentation from the U.S. Marshals indicating an inmate will not return will MCC key the inmate out as no longer present.

  • Quote:
    "That’s not something we create and write WAB. They actually would have to put it in the email." ([12:20])

• Marking is dependent on outside info:

  • Quote:
    "The only way we would be able to determine that is by getting the court list." ([11:05])

• Delayed Updates: Sometimes, court outcomes or changes to status occur after the inmate leaves, requiring later log updates if, for example, an inmate is sentenced to time served or probation.

5. Data Ambiguity and Accountability Limitations

• Limits of Documentation: The officer reiterates that the institutional logs available do not show why someone was removed, just that they were.

  • “So this doesn’t tell us anything... all it tells us is that he was removed from the institution.” ([13:10])

• Changing Procedures: Institutional policies and practices for tracking movement have changed, potentially complicating understanding of historical records versus current standards.

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Memorable Quotes

• On the Ephemeral Nature of Records

  • "Once the list is done for the day, we just shred it. We don’t need it." – R&D Officer ([02:23])

• On Movement Logs

  • "It just tracks movement... but you don’t know looking at this, why they were pre-removed." – R&D Officer ([06:25])

• On WAB and Record Creation

  • "That’s not something we create and write WAB. They actually would have to put it in the email." – R&D Officer ([12:20])

• On the Limits of Existing Data

  • "So this doesn’t tell us anything... all it tells us is that he was removed from the institution." – R&D Officer ([13:10])

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Important Timestamps

• [01:14] – Episode proper begins, introduction of the testimony content.
• [01:28]–[04:05] – Discussion of the court list creation, distribution, and shredding process.
• [04:05]–[06:25] – Explanation of institution logs, movement codes, and their limitations.
• [06:25]–[08:10] – Clarification on coding and ambiguity regarding “pre-remove,” “hold remove,” etc.
• [11:05]–[13:10] – Delving into “WAB” notations, disposition changes post-court, and the impact on record-keeping and log updating.
• [13:10]–[14:19] – Wrap-up segment and preview for the next episode.

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Conclusion & Next Steps

Bobby Capucci concludes this installment by underscoring the challenges in tracing detailed inmate movement and status using MCC’s documents, pointing to the lack of clarity as central to the persistent questions in the Epstein case. The next episode will continue dissecting these OIG interviews and the paper trail (or lack thereof) tied to Epstein’s final days.

Host’s wrap-up quote:
“All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.” ([13:54])

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For Listeners Seeking Further Clarity

• The episode makes clear that record-keeping practices at MCC were inconsistent and lacked transparency, hampering robust post hoc investigation.
• This installment is a must-listen for those following the intricacies of the Epstein case, as it methodically picks apart how bureaucratic systems can obscure responsibility and information in high-profile cases.

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Transcript

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[Epstein Chronicles Host]

and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right back in to the testimony given by the R D correction officer from MCC about Jeffrey Epstein's death. Question okay, we'll come back in a little bit. The court list that you guys create, who does that get sent to? Answer it doesn't get sent to, it gets sent to the unit officers. We don't email it out, we make hard copies. In the internal officer comes around that night and he gives one to each housing unit. Question around what time? Answer Depending anytime during from midnight to 8 in the morning they have up until to give it. Give that out. But most likely no later than 5:00am after the 5:00 clock count because at that time that's when the institutions opening up after the 5am count when the inmates will have their breakfast and start preparing for whatever it is that their day entails. Question do you recall working that morning in R D and seeing inmate Reyes come down? Answer I don't remember. Question okay, and when the list is sent up to the units, what do they do with it? Answer the unit officers take it and he views it and it just tells them who is on the unit and who has court that day? Question Is that copy of that list maintained anywhere by R D? Answer no, because once we once the list is is done for the day, we just shred it. We don't need it. Question what about what's used to it sounds like create the list from the Marshalls. Can we get, can we get back to the emails from August 8th? I guess it would be to get that court list from August 9th. Answer. If it's still in the system. Yeah, you would still. You'd be able to see it. Yeah. Question and you said at that time there are both fax and email to any single person, so we could just grab an email from them if it was archived. Answer. Huh? If it's still, you know, in the system. But we don't normally keep court lists. Once we done for the day, everything gets shredded and we start fresh for the next day. So we don't hold on to the court lists. Question. Okay. Answer. Just something that we never did. The only thing we hold on to is transfer orders. People that transferred out. Like she gets cut off by the investigator. Question so for instance, with Reyes, when you say transfer order, does that mean release or is it just transferred to a different institution? Answer. Transfer to a different institution. Because if he got released or he got disposition, he would be something we would place in his file why he got released. You know, you gotta have something to show. That's why you released this inmate, that we didn't just let him walk out the door. We have this document from the marshals. That's why we released him. Question. So would Reyes have a file like that? If it's not sent to archives and this is 2021, his file would be. His file is probably archived now. Question. Even though it's like my understanding was like August 9th, everything was going to be like preserved August 9th and 10th. Do you know if that would create it, not actually be archived, but actually still maintained somewhere? Answer. You would have to get with sis. I don't know. I don't know. Question. Do you know if that court list is used to update the daily log? Answer. What do you mean? Question do you know what a daily log is? He shows her the log. Have you ever seen that? Answer it's what we call a PP38. It just tracks movement of who went out of the institution, who went from that unit to what unit, who got keyed out. This is what this is. It just tracks all the movement for that day. Question can you flip to the third page for inmate Efren Reyes? You see next to it it says pre remove. Do you know what that means? Answer huh, that means he was removed from the institution. Question. Does that mean that there's a possibility that the marshal's list come over which made him wab Answer Possibility. Yeah. Question what else could it why else would you list an inmate as pre remove? We won't list them as pre remove. We just key him out as pre remove. Question so he was keyed out at that point? Yeah. And what time was it keyed out, do you know? 8:38. And would it be if a person's going to court, what would it be listed as? Answer if he's going to court on this, you wouldn't see at the time, you wouldn't see that he went to court. You would have to run an outcount to show who was keyed out to court. So you wouldn't be able to see that. That on this. Because this just tracks who came into the institution, who left the institution and what housing units they were transferred from. Whether they came out of SHU or they went to shoe or they got moved from one unit housing unit to another housing unit. Or if they say an inmate got sentenced, this would show that he might have went from a pre, meaning a pretrial inmate to a hold. He might have pled guilty. So now he's no longer a pretrial and he's awaiting sentencing. So this would just show stuff like that. Or he became a designated inmate and he's a BOP inmate. Question how would you be able to see the difference between an inmate that just left her court and was coming back in an inmate that left. Answer on this. Question yeah, can you Answer yeah, you could just see. Well, you don't know. You just know what they were pre removed. So you don't know looking at this, why they were pre removed. Question So I guess what he means though is if someone is just going to court and and didn't go to court, Wab versus someone who went to court wab, would they be coded differently on that? Answer no. Question not at all. Answer at that time we weren't. If the inmate went to court and was Wab, we would key him on pre remove or hold remove. So yes, I'm trying to think, what did you just say? Say it again. Question so I guess is there a differentiation? If someone is wab, are they coded as pre removed? If they're just going to court and they don't have Wab next to their name on that form, would it just say something different like court? Answer no, you wouldn't see Wab on this form. She gets cut off by the investigator. No, no, I'm not saying that you would see wab. I'm just saying like if the inmate goes to court, are they always Listed as pre removed. Answer no, they'd be hold to move Question and that's the and what's the difference? So is this either pre remove or hold or remove answer or bell bond question or a bell bond and can you he gets cut off by the R D officer or time served? Question okay, so when you're leaving. So it sounds like the latter two that are totally different things. He gets cut off by the corrections officer. Well, no. They could be on the court list and they could appear to go out to court as a court and they might get ordered two times served. So now we have them on an out count as going to court because we weren't keying inmates physically out of the institution. We're placing them on an outcount. So you would send them out to court as a court. But if you got a disposition back from the marshal stating that inmate so and so was sentenced to time served, now you would go back in the system and you would key him out time served. So it doesn't necessarily mean that they could be on the court list as a wab, because that doesn't always happen. Sometimes they do get released straight from the courthouse and never come back to the jail. So those things do happen. Question and that's what so what we're trying to get to is is there any way behind by looking at that, can you determine if Reyes when he left at 8:38 had a WAB next to his name? Not from looking at this, no.

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[Epstein Chronicles Host]

the only way we would be able to determine that is by getting the court list. Answer yes, because the marshals could have sent something back over and said inmate so and so is not coming back. He's going with probation. He could have had a court appearance and he could have. It could have been with his probation officer and at that time the judge could have said whatever and sentenced the inmate to probation. So now he's not coming back to the institution and now we gotta pre remove him. It just all depends on what happened at court and it all depends on what his status was prior to going to court. What we got far as the court list. So I couldn't tell you that just by looking at that. Question when the marshals send over whatever it is that they send over, did they have wab on their form? Answer yeah. Question okay, so if we get one of those emails, it would say wab on it. Answer at that time it said wab. Yes. Question okay, so that's not something that you create and write wab. They actually would have to put it in the email. Answer Right. Question okay. Answer we don't create that until we get their list. Then that's why we go by what's on their list and, and then we type it up and we disseminate it to the housing units like that. Question okay, but somebody that you're. So my understanding is that not everybody that goes to court is wab. Answer that's correct. Question and just to make sure that we're understanding correctly on that. So people that just go to court, would they also be listed as pre remove? Answer they could possibly be, yes. It could possibly be because the marshals might call you and say, hey, we got inmate so and so he's not coming back. He's going with the state and they'll send us a cut slip. Question no there that's after the fact though. After they've already left. Question or answer Excuse me. That can possibly happen after they left? Yes. Question so if we're looking at this thing on RAS where it says 838, is that what was entered for him at 8:38 or is that it could have been changed later on the pre remove thing? Answer. It just depends on what time he went out. I don't know. Because it could have been changed. Well, no. Well, I can't tell you just by looking at this question. So. All right, so this doesn't tell us anything. Answer. It tells us that he was removed from the institution because at one point in time, how we key inmates out now is not how we were keying inmates out then. We didn't key them out, we just placed them on the outcount. So if we keyed them out on an outcount, they would show off of the unit population, but they would still be on the institutional count. Now we have to key them out. They're off the institutional count and they're off the unit count. So when we key them out now for the court, they. It's like they never. They're not here in the institution at all. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with this topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

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