Summary5 min read

Episode Summary: Inside The OIG Interview – The Testimony of an Unnamed R&D Officer from MCC (Part 6)

Podcast: The Epstein Chronicles
Host: Bobby Capucci
Episode Air Date: May 9, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Bobby Capucci presents a detailed analysis of the Office of Inspector General’s (OIG) interview with an unnamed Research & Development (R&D) officer from the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) concerning Jeffrey Epstein’s incarceration. This is part six of a series scrutinizing the inner workings of MCC during the time of Epstein’s detainment and death, focusing on how inmate movements are tracked, documented, and sometimes mishandled.

Through a mix of direct transcript presentation and commentary, the episode highlights issues of communication, chain of responsibility, and record-keeping failures. The discussion also includes examination of documents and practices related to inmate counts and the ambiguities in control processes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Control Center Process for Inmate Removal and Movement

[01:00 – 07:00]

The control center is responsible for logging and verifying inmate movements based on paperwork provided by other units.
R&D officer describes procedures:
- On day and evening shifts, control will double-check moves when notified.
- On morning (overnight) watch, movements are rare unless an emergency arises.
Checks and balances: In theory, multiple staff members must communicate movements, but this often fails in practice.
“Most of the time the control center officer would look at this and see who’s moved and verify it with E1 and make sure everything’s accurate.” (R&D Officer – 03:22)

2. Systemic Issues with Notification and Documentation

[07:00 – 17:00]

It’s not uncommon for inmates to be moved without proper paperwork or notifications.
Movements can go unrecorded if someone assumes another staff member will update the logs.
Accountability can be vague, with “unit management team” or individual officers responsible depending on the move.
The officer acknowledges:
- “There are supposed to be balance and checks. Yeah, but sometimes people move inmates and they fail to report to maybe the officer or they fail to notify the control…” (R&D Officer – 10:21)
Communication breakdown is a recurring risk, exacerbated by distractions or emergencies.

3. Divided Responsibility and Communication Gaps

[17:00 – 24:00]

Confusion exists about who is ultimately responsible for logging and verifying specific types of moves (unit, SHU, suicide watch).
Multiple examples given where the only way for an officer to know the real count is personal thoroughness:
- “I’m just nosy like that. So I want to know what’s going on, who’s in my unit, who is coming out of my unit, you know, so I’m verifying my stuff on my own.” (R&D Officer – 21:24)
Not every officer is as diligent, leading to gaps.

4. Document Review: Chain of Events on August 9th–10th, 2019

[24:00 – 40:00]

Interviewers review detailed inmate movement logs and counts from the night before Epstein's death.
Discrepancies in counts and unclear documentation revealed:
- Movements of inmates Reyes and Fernandez noted, but the reconciliation of actual counts versus logs is imperfect.
Example confusion:
- “But it still shows 75. It should have been 74.” (Investigator – 33:13)
Discussion on what ‘plus one’ means in the count logs, indicating ambiguity in accounting (“That means somebody was there. Plus one. So it’s somebody that’s there but he, I guess he’s not accounted for but he’s there.” – R&D Officer – 37:10)

5. Problems with Shift Change and Signature Verification

[40:00 – 46:00]

Investigation turns to determining who precisely took and signed off on final inmate counts before and after midnight, leading into the morning of Epstein’s death.
Challenges faced with reading signatures and confirming who was physically present.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On flawed checks and balances:
– “But most of the time… control center officer would look at this and see who’s moved and verify it with E1… But my computer log might be wrong because this person might not have keyed the inmate out.”
(R&D Officer, 06:24)
Admitting gaps in reporting:
– “There are supposed to be balance and checks. Yeah, but sometimes people move inmates and they fail to report…”
(R&D Officer, 10:21)
Culture of ambiguity:
– “So it can be one of those things… The SHU officer can be like, ‘ah, no, control will do it.’ And control lieutenant will be like, ‘no, the SHU will do it.”’
(Investigator & Officer, 14:45)
On personal diligence:
– “I want to know what’s going on, who’s in my unit, who is coming out of my unit… so I’m verifying stuff on my own.”
(R&D Officer, 21:24)
Document mismatch confusion:
– “But it still shows 75. It should have been 74.”
(Investigator, 33:13)

Important Timestamps

01:00 – Explanation of control center processes
10:21 – Acknowledgement of procedural failures
17:30 – Breakdown in communication between SHU, control, and unit officers
24:00 – Document review of August 9th–10th, highlighting specific moves and errors
33:13 – Talk of count inconsistencies and plus-one anomalies
40:00 – Attempt to verify signatures and who took the counts

Tone & Approach

The episode, much like others in “The Epstein Chronicles,” is methodical, skeptical, and relentless in its questioning of how a high-profile prisoner like Epstein could have been so poorly tracked inside an ostensibly secure federal facility. The host maintains a forensic, detailed tone, giving listeners a front-row seat to the exact lines of questioning posed to MCC staff and emphasizing just how routine breakdowns in accountability may have played a role in what followed.

Conclusion

This installment shines a bright light on the breakdowns in operational rigor at MCC in the days surrounding Epstein’s death. Listeners come away with a granular understanding of procedures as they were supposed to be versus what actually happened, underlined by first-hand testimony, inconsistent documentation, and systemic laziness or error.

Stay tuned for the next episode as the investigation continues to methodically dissect every aspect of the MCC’s handling of Epstein and explores the ramifications for the broader web of individuals connected to his case.

All referenced documents and further resources are available in the episode’s description.

Loading summary

Transcript1 lines

[00:00]
A
What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right back in to the interview given by the R d officer from MCC to the OIG investigators. Question. Now, you were control August 10th, right? Answer. Huh? Question. As a CO in control, when would you be notified that an inmate's being removed? Answer, when would I be notified that an inmate's being removed? Question yeah, if you're working in control, answer. Well, that would be. She gets cut off. Well, she just said R D doesn't call them to tell them. Answer no, we give them, we send them paperwork. So you have control to number person in the control center that verifies our key out moves against our paperwork that we send them. So this is what the control center would use as well to track the moves and make sure that these individuals are keyed out. So now, as a control center officer, you might call as the number two. I mean, I said the number one because the number two person does it. The number two person, which is an accounts and assignment person, they would. This is primarily on day watch and evening watch because there is no movement on morning watch, not unless it's an emergency. But you're not moving nobody on morning watch. So on day watch and evening watch, if you see that inmates were moved around or a counselor calls you in control and says, hey, I'll move an inmate so and so from this unit to this unit. Then as a control center officer, what I would do, I'm not going to say what everybody else would do, I would call over the radio, hey, unit officers, if you lost an inmate or you gained an inmate, call control and verify your base count. And I would say, they would say, oh, inmate so and so left and I have 87. Or they might give me a wrong count. I'm like, no, that's bad. You need to check your base count, verify who left the unit. And that's what I would do. But most of the time the control center officer would look at this and see who's moved and verify it with E1 and make sure everything's accurate. Question. So once they're notified, what would the control officer update that you wanted? We have what we call the running board. So with a running board, you have the starting base of one unit and then the ending base of the unit. So if an inmate went out to the hospital, might have been 86, he went to the hospital. 87 he came. I mean, 85, he came back. Now his base is back to 86. This is the E1 document. Is this what you're talking about? No, that's an E1. I'm talking about a running board. It's just a dummy document we create just to track all the moves to like a paper to just verify the counts. Basically checks and balance. So like if I see that this inmate was moved from five, he was pre removed and that unit count was 85, I would just write inmate pre removed and I would have a paper log of what unit count should be because even my paper log might be accurate. But. But my computer log might be wrong because this person might not have keyed the inmate out. Question. So let's talk about that. Has there been a situation where inmates get moved around and not get keyed out? Yeah, that's happened. How does that happen? Isn't there a balance and checks to make sure that nothing like that happens? There are supposed to be balance and checks. Yeah, but sometimes people move inmates and they fail to report to maybe the officer or they fail to notify the control. I'll move an inmate from this unit to this unit. Or something might happen on a unit. An inmate might get locked up and you're in control center and you know, you're doing whatever. You hear an emergency on a unit, you don't know what's going on, you don't know if the inmate is going out to the hospital until somebody actually physically calls and they say, hey, I've got an inmate that indiscernible. If you're not looking at the camera, you see them moving this inmate from this unit and walking them into shu and you'll call the unit, hey, you got one locked. Who got locked up? You might call the unit officer and ask those questions. So it has happened. Question. Whose responsibility would it be if they're moving an inmate to key it in? Answer to key it in. Depending on what type of move it is, if it's a unit to unit move, that would be the unit management team. If it's an inmate getting locked up from the unit and going to shoe, the control center officer might move that unit, move that inmate from that unit to shoe. Or shoe might key the inmate into shoe. So it just depends I who does it. Question. So it can be one of those things that a situation, let's say an inmate gets moved, the shoe officer can be like, ah, no, control will do it. And control lieutenant will be like, no, the shoe will do it. Is it one person that's actually responsible to make sure that it gets keyed in? Answer. Well, a lot of time. Things happen. Like I said around here. You might have a lieutenant go to a unit and then walk an inmate out and the inmate gets locked up. Or you might have an inmate that's suicidal and he gets placed on suicide watch. So now he's not in the unit, he's in suicide watch. Or you might have an inmate that was taken off of suicide watch, might be put in a housing unit or shoe. You don't know unless somebody notifies you because you're in the control. You're answering phones, you're looking at a keypad. You might be looking up and down, but you're not constantly on the camera. So you won't know unless somebody actually notifies you and says, hey, we're moving inmate so and so. So a lot of the time you just have. If you got an inmate that you received a new inmate, call control, verify your base, click. Because you won't always know everything. Question. So you're saying it would have been on the shoe officer to make sure that, hey, listen, this inmate's being moved. Did she even notify control? Hey, listen. Answer. If the officer of the unit knows that the inmate got locked up, he's supposed to be calling control, saying, I've got an inmate that's locked up. He went to shoe. Shoe now needs to be calling control. Hey, I got one so and so on my base count. Everybody's supposed to be calling. Everybody should be calling. Not just she gets cut off by the investigator. But did you just say, though, that, like, for instance, shoe, Shoe can call control and say, hey, I just want to verify my base. What do you got? Answer. No, they wouldn't say, I want to verify my base. What do you got? You would say, I want to verify my base. I have 87. And then control would say, no, that's good. No, that's bad. So now, as the officer, what I would do, I would go around counting inmates in my unit, and I would look at my roster and see who went out to court. But that's what I would do. Question. Sure. Answer. I can't say what everybody else would do. Question. Yeah, no. And trust me, we've talked to a lot of people and everybody does things different. And that's why we're trying to figure out, should they. He gets cut off by the guard, what I need to know on my unit. I'm just nosy like that. So I want to know what's going on, who's in my unit, who is coming out of my unit, you know, so I'm Verifying my stuff on my own. Question okay, no, that's a good way to do it. So are you aware though anybody calling for instance control and getting control somehow, however crafty that they use they're wording to actually give them the base count? Answer I've never heard. Question no. Answer not that I know of. Not that I know of. I'm not going to say it hasn't happened, but I don't know. Question I'm going to show you some documents. Before that, any document that I show you, I'm going to ask you to initial and date at the top. You're. You're not attesting to it. It's just to show you that the document that we went through. Answer I want to work with you guys. Question well, it sounds like you got the qualifications with those degrees and with the knowledge we do a ton of BOP stuff. Question so are you familiar with the E1's control documents? The first one that I'm going to show you is this would be for August 9th at 5am this is the E1 document controlling the control document. The shoe shows 77 inmates. Now I'm going to show you the daily log. Are you aware of the lieutenant's log? Answer yeah. Question Inmate's movements? Answer yeah. Question okay, now this is the day watch. This document, the day watch Lieutenant Log for August 9th. We can start off, we'll look at these inmate movements. It shows that you need to start at 77 to match up with that at 5am Question so it says 77 at the 5am it matches up at 77 when they did the count at eight. Answer huh. Question and it's still 77 with five in indiscernible. Uh huh. Question now this shows at 8:38 we can see Reyes was removed. Uh huh. Question Right. Pre Removed. Yeah. Question the count comes down to 76. Now the next movement out of the shoe that we see is at 3:15pm and it says inmate Fernandez. Answer Huh. Wait a minute. He's placed in his own dry cell. Placed in a dry cell from shoe. Question yeah, so let's look at. So where do you indiscernible. Understand? Where is the dry cell? Answer. I thought it was shoe. Question okay, so let's look at the statement up here on top of it. It says inmate Fernandez Andreso with staff watch A and R and D. Does that clarify it for you? Okay. Question so at this point inmate Fernandez is removed and the count comes down to 75. Okay, now we're looking at the 5pm count for August 9th. 4pm sorry, 4pm count for August the 9th. Reyes is removed. Right? Reyes is removed. Epstein sitting in an attorney conference. Yeah, that's right here. Question right here. And intimate Fernandez is removed. Answer huh? Question. But it still shows 75. It should have been 74. Answer this is. They got 76. This is 4 o'. Clock. Did they say something? Answer. And this is a removed inmate. The next one is over here too. There are some inmates that moved in and out. Now let's go to the 10pm count. Answer huh Question. And go over the inmates that so you can follow the numbers. Let me pull my chair closer so I can see that. Now this is the evening watch. Document the other sheet. Now if you're starting to look at inmate Hemingway, 6:34pm he's removed from the shoe. Goes to ES. Right. And the next one is inmate Reed gets moved from ZA to GS. Now we lost two more inmates at 73. Uh huh. Question then we gain two inmates. The shoe gains to inmates A21, Felix and Williams. From ZA to suicide watch in the shoe. Right. Answer. Wait a minute. From Za no, he came from the shoe. Question. From shoe to suicide watch. So now we're down to 71. And question. Right. And then we have Garcia. Question. Wait, I'm sorry, hold on. This is 70. That's one. That's another one. Okay. That's R&D. One, two. Okay, I see why it's two. Okay that's two. Right. Question that's two. And then you see he gets cut off by the guard. So it's suicide watch. Right? Answer yeah. And you see one inmate was gained. Garcia Pennis moved over. Now I'm going to show you the 10pm Count. The 10pm Count on the E1, what does that show? Answer 73. Question okay, on the last couple of pages, can you find the one for Za? Za would be the shoe, right? The counselip Answer. Uh huh. Question what does it show? Answer 73 at 10. Question. But 73 what? Answer plus one. Question what does the plus one mean? That means somebody was there. Plus one. So it's somebody that's there but he, I guess he's not accounted for but he's there. Question. But can you, by looking at the document, can you figure out who that is? Uh huh. I'm going to show you the 12pm Count too. This is 12am Count. There's August 10, 12am Count. Now you're working in control at that time. I don't remember at the moment but I know I worked in control that day. I know she came in there and she took the count. Were you present when she took the count? Uh huh. 12:00am until he gets cut off by the guard. Yeah. So by looking at that, can you tell who it was that took the count? That the E1 answer. That's somebody's signature. That's somebody else. That might be her signature question. Redacted answer. Huh? It might be her signature question. So we can tell you redacted took that count. We'll just let you. She took the count. Do you remember being present that day when she was there taking the count Answer? I was present, yes. All right, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.