Inside The OIG Interview: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 3) (4/9/26)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: Inside The OIG Interview: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 3) (4/9/26)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the detailed breakdown of the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) interview with the warden of the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) focusing on the documentation, procedures, and staff actions surrounding Jeffrey Epstein’s incarceration, suicide watch, and eventual death. Host Bobby Capucci takes listeners through the warden’s statements, providing insight into the daily log procedures, confusion over staff assignments, and inconsistencies in watch documentation. The discussion highlights not only operational lapses but also the confusion and chaos prevalent at the institution before and after Epstein’s death.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Suicide Watch and Logbook Procedures

• Documentation Errors:
  • The warden admits there was confusion with the logbooks used for suicide watch and inmate companions. An entry meant for staff watch was written in the wrong log.
  • “They mix the book up. But they must have wrote it in the suicide log. But typically when you come in, let’s say the shift starts at 8, you’ll state your full name as assuming the duties.” (Warden, 06:01)
• Nature of Mistake:
  • The use of an “inmate companion log” instead of a “staff suicide watch log” is acknowledged as a credible administrative mistake but not deliberate malfeasance.

2. Staff Assignments and Michael Thomas

• Assignment Confusion:
  • There was confusion about which “Thomas” (staff member) was assigned to watch over Epstein, complicated by two staffers with the last name Thomas at MCC.
  • The host clarifies, “So our investigation shows that it was Michael Thomas that was on him on the 23rd and that wasn’t an I gotcha whatsoever.” (Interviewer, 07:36)
• Suspicion Concerning Thomas:
  • Michael Thomas was not only on suicide watch during the July incident but also found Epstein after his death on August 10. The interviewer queries whether this is suspicious.
  • The warden responds, “No. I mean typically we have so much overtime in the institution...I can’t say if it was suspicious or not.” (Warden, 08:00)

3. Types of Logs Reviewed

• Differentiation of Logs:
  • Multiple types of logs are examined: suicide watch logs, suicide observation logs, psychological observation (“psychops”) logs, and attorney logbooks.
    • “This is probably an attorney log into the attorney room...he had multiple attorneys and this is an attorney log.” (Warden, 08:30)
• Attorney Visit Logs:
  • The warden clarifies that attorney logs are signed by attorneys or visitors, not the inmate themselves.

4. Suicide Watch vs. Psychological Observation

• Definitions and Differences:
  • Suicide Watch: Implemented when there is evidence or suspicion the inmate might self-harm, requiring constant staff or companion observation.
  • Psychological Observation: Used when there is concern, but not enough for suicide watch—less restrictive, but still a form of monitoring.
    • “Suicide watch is when you have determined...what they might cause self-harm to themselves. Psychops is that person might not admit it...So we just put them on what we call psychological observation.” (Warden, 13:25)
• Conditions and Attorney Access:
  • The warden is uncertain, but notes that typically, inmates on either status are not allowed attorney visits.
    • “If they are on that watch, no [attorney visits].” (Warden, 14:16)
    • “I think it would be the same thing...that they’re not allowed to have [attorney visits] and I’m not sure. Don’t quote me on it...” (Warden, 14:26)

5. Overtime and Assignment Rotation

• High Overtime Environment:
  • Warden references the extensive use of overtime, leading to recurring assignment of the same staff to certain watches. Staffing was managed by a sign-up program or ad hoc calls.

6. Inmate Companions and Identifying Watchers

• Inmate-Assigned Companions:
  • Documentation demonstrates both staff and inmate companions were used during Epstein's suicide watch, each requiring the appropriate log.
  • Example: “Inmate companion Esteban...assume responsibility for inmate Epstein.” (Warden, 12:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Logbook Confusion:
  • “They didn’t fill it out correctly.” (Warden, 06:40)
• On Michael Thomas Finding Epstein:
  • “Is that suspicious at all to you...that he is the one that found him on the 10th?”
    • “No...I can’t say if it was suspicious or not.” (Warden, 07:56)
• Clarifying Attorney Logs:
  • “Whoever comes and visits has to put who they’re visiting.” (Warden, 09:10)
• Distinction Between Watch Levels:
  • “Suicide watch...there is a possibility...they might cause self harm to themselves. Psychops is that person might not admit it...” (Warden, 13:26)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:00] — Intro to Warden’s Interview; Suicide Watch & Documentation Discussion Starts
• [06:00] — Logbooks, Staff Assignment, and Documentation Errors
• [07:30] — Michael Thomas’ Assignment and Suspicious Circumstances Conversation
• [08:30] — Attorney Logs and Differentiation from Suicide Watch Logs
• [12:50] — Inmate Companions: Identification and Records
• [13:25] — Suicide Watch vs. Psychological Observation Explained
• [14:16] — Attorney Visits During Watch Status
• [15:00] — Episode Wrap-Up and Preview for Next Installment

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Conclusion & Next Steps

This episode exposes bureaucratic confusion, procedural lapses, and inadequate documentation at the MCC in the lead-up to and aftermath of Epstein’s death. The OIG interview reveals reliance on overtime staff and the use of both officer and inmate companions, creating ambiguity that undermines the integrity of records. The host promises the continuation of this deep-dive into the OIG materials in the next episode.

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For more on this episode, including supplemental documents and referenced logs, see the episode’s description as noted by host Bobby Capucci.

Transcript

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What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right back in to the warden's interview from MCC with the OIG investigators. Question and what happened with inmate Epstein after July 23rd or on July 23rd? Answer I don't specifically remember what happened. I know he separated the both of them. He wasn't. And then I know he was on suicide watch. They placed him on watch and then had psychology talk to him. Question okay, so just so that is just so you know, if you don't mind just initialing and dating that one that we just read. Okay, this next one is from redacted to redacted. Answer. She's a psychologist. Okay. And then with the ucc, right. Question it says SW chronological log Epstein it says CO Thomas was assigned to staff watch. However the wrong book was used. I am companion log in lieu of staff suicide watch log. Was that something normal? Was that an easy mistake? Yeah, I could see it happening because we have a log that the inmate. You have an inmate companion that that watch inmates. So they use the log and then you have if staff are going to sit on someone then they use a certain log. But the fact that, you know, the documentation took place is was just, you know, it was just an error. But they did document it. Question Now, CO Thomas, is this Michael Thomas that you. Are you aware? Answer I had two Thomases. I. I don't know which one it is. Question okay, so if I tell you it was he gets cut off by the warden. No, no, it had to be Officer Thomas because if it was CO Thomas, he would have been. His title is material handler. Question okay, so you don't believe it was actually Michael Thomas? Answer no, I think it was the officer. Question it was Mr. Michael Thomas. Just from our records and, and from speaking with Mr. Thomas. Answer can I see the log? How we open the log? Question that is correct, right? Answer where does it show that he started his shift? Because usually when you come on shift you write he gets cut off. This is what was attached to the email. Answer yeah, typically when you start your shift, your you start off, you know, you're putting your name, you if you were relieved or if you assume Suicide watch. Question so here is the next email. So you might be able to show me an example of what you are referring to in this email. Is it the same thing that you were cc'd? And this is like maybe this is the real log that maybe he should have been using. But here it shows all the other logs. Answer so this is, see this is what I meant by when someone comes on duty. So but this is when they leave, they mix the book up. But they must have wrote it in the suicide log. But typically when you come in, let's say the shift starts at 8, you'll state your full name as assuming the duties. Question okay. Answer and you typically say who you relieved on there? Question all right, so it looks like they maybe didn't fill it out correctly. Answer they didn't fill it out correctly. Question and so our investigation shows that it was Michael Thomas that was on him on the 23rd and that wasn't an I gotcha whatsoever. My question was actually Michael Thomas is the one who actually found them on August 10th, correct? Answer yes. Question and is that suspicious at all to you that he was the one watching him on suicide watch and then that he is the one that found him on the 10th? No. I mean typically we have so much overtime in the institution that we go by when you sign up for it. So there is a program that you sign up for and I don't know how the lieutenant did. They might have called them and he signed up for it. So I don't know, I can't say if it was suspicious or not. Question sure. And then all these documents that we're reviewing right here on these two emails, what are they? Answer which one? Question Both of them answer the suicide watch log. Question yeah, so is this suicide watch log as well as this? Answer yeah, the suicide Observation log. And this is appears to be the COVID of the logbook for suicide watch question. Perfect. Alright. Do you mind just initialing and dating this? And again these aren't trick questions. I just don't want to like put answers if I think it's something but maybe it's not. You might be able to tell me what it actually is. Answer this one too. Question yeah please. Thank you sir. And this is. This says psychops. So this is another one of those emails. This one is from redacted to you also dated 8-10-2019 and it says psychops is discontinued on 7:30, 2018. I think she means 2019. Correct. At 8:15am so is this also part of the suicide watch log? Answer that is a log you would also use. Question. Okay, great. And does it say in there I guess right here 8:15am Psych observation is being discontinued. Yes. Question. Okay, awesome. Do you mind if you just initial and date this and redacted as I'm giving these to you, can you try to keep these in order with regard to he gets cut off. I've just been stacking them. Question. Making a note. Don't stack them on tip. Keep them like bundled together. So we know this is psych. This is like the psych observation logbook. So if you can keep them and then write a note on them. Answer. Okay. Question. So that when after this thing is transcribed we can keep things in order. This one's regarding the first attempt and the one we read from redacted. And can you tell me sir what this is? This is July 30th. So is that the same date that came off of. What am I looking at here? Answer. So this date, name, signature, inmate name, reg number. This is. Is this an entrance log to the special housing un Question I'm not sure that's what I'm saying. Answer. I'm just. I don't know. It might be an entrance log. This is 7:30. Question these are all dates but at least up until 7:30 that he was in special housing unit. But this says Jay Epstein so I don't know if he would sign himself in. Answer no, no, I don't know. It might be the entrance. It might be attorney visits. Let me see. 730g tall phonetic spelling. Signature, inmate name. This might be an attorney log name. False signature. Yeah, this might. This is probably an attorney log into the attorney room. I think that's probably it. Question Here is Epstein again. It shows 7:30. 7:30, 7:30. Answer. The different attorneys he, you know he could have had one attorney that comes in early in the meeting and then anytime a new one comes in, they have to sign in saying who they came to see. Question okay. Answer so he had multiple attorneys and this is an attorney log. He usually had multiple attorneys. Question so it wasn't Epstein signing his name saying they were visiting this person? Answer Whoever comes and visits has to put who they're visiting. Question so the visitor logs were for attorneys? Answer Attorneys. Yeah. Question all right, you mind just initialing and dating that and again redacted if you want to write on right on that. Answer okay. Question that logbook visit. So again so that we can keep track of that and what these things are. Now is this the same thing that we just looked at this looks like again, it says in May companion assume duties for from staff on 7:23:19 at 7 until 7:24:19 at 8:45am Epstein was transferred to Psych Observation on 7 24, 2019 at 8:45 until 7:30, 2019. At 8:15am inmate companion was utilized. Question so this one says July 23rd and 24th and this one again says suicide watch. Chronological log.

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In May companion logs. Does this tell you anything more about Michael Thomas or anything different? What is this? This One is the PP37. What does that tell us? That's just that he's just on there. Answer. Yeah, it just says, you know, indiscernible. Let me see. You got category. I don't know what the MDS is, but typically it's an assignment. Like I could put in and do a PP37 and say where he was housed at so I could put quarters. So this must be a medical term concerning his medical status. Question. Okay, great. And then this is the first page, it looks like, of the logbook. Does this tell you anything different than what we looked at before or is this the same thing? It's the same thing. It's an inmate suicide watch log. Question. So it doesn't say Michael Thomas on it. He gets cut off by the warden. No, it says inmate companion was watching him. Question. Okay, you said inmate. So this is an inmate companion instead of the actual. Okay, I got you. So whatever. Does it tell us which. Who the inmate was that was his companion. Answer. Inmate companion Esteban. Phonetic spelling. And it has his number right here. Question. Okay, great answer. Assume responsibility for inmate Epstein. Question. Perfect answer. So that's why I was telling you the staff should be the one to read just like that too. Question. All right, so this one from 7:23 is the actual inmate that was Epstein's companion on 7:23 until 7:24. Do you mind just initialing and dating that answer. And this is right after the incident, the first incident. Right. Question. This is so July 23rd or the 24th. Yes. This is when he was on suicide watch, not on observation. And this is that. It looks like this is one. Again, it's from you to Mr. Redacted. It says Psychops suicide watch. And it looks like it's a difference between the two. In layman's terms, what's the difference between suicide watch and psychological observation at MCC during this time period when Epstein was on it? So suicide watch is when you have determined or there is a possibility through what an individual is saying what they might cause self harm to themselves. Psychops is that person might not admit it and we might not have anything to say to put them on suicide watch. So we just put them on what we call psychological observation questioned. And now it's my understanding it's basically the same thing aside from the inmate it's is allowed to have such as clothes. Answer that too. Question okay, so is it the same unit, same room, same procedure? Answer yes. Question okay, the one thing that I've learned more recently is though during psychological observation or I guess I should ask for them during suicide watch as well as psychological observation, is the inmate allowed to have attorney visits? Answer if they are on that watch, no. Question what about during psychological observation? Answer I think it would be the same thing that they're not allowed to have and I'm not sure. Don't quote me on it because typically when they are on that, we don't have it. Alright folks, we're gonna wrap up right here and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

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