← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 13) (8/9/26)
00:13:58
Kathy Ruemmler told congressional investigators that she regretted associating with Jeffrey Epstein but maintained that she did not know he was continuing to abuse girls and young women after his 2008 conviction. The former Obama White House counsel...
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Kathy Ruemmler
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And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with Kathy Rumler and her conversation with Congress redacted. All right, let's enter minority exhibit J. Bates, number EFTA 01203 719. It's an April 21, 2015 email exchange between you and Mr. Epstein. Mr. Epstein forwarded you an inquiry from ABC News regarding an interview with Gets cut off by Mr. Fishman. I'm sorry, do you want her to read the document first before you summarize it? Redacted. Sure. Fishman. Okay. Question. So, before we discuss this particular exhibit, we're going to have the members ask some questions. Mr. Krishnamoorthy. Ms. Rumler. Okay, Krishnamurthy. Okay, thank you. Ms. Ruemmler. My first question is, did you say before that Leon Black or was Leon Black someone? That was referred to you as a client by Mr. Epstein, Ms. Rumler, not Leon Black. It was, as I recall, there was a commercial dispute with Apollo. Question. So Apollo the firm. Answer. Apollo the Firm Correct. Question. Okay, and how much in billing did Apollo accrue with Latham and Watkins at the time that you were with Latham and Watkins because of that referral? We had a conflict, so we were unable to do the case. Were any other clients referred to Latham by Epstein? Yes. Question. Through you. Yes, there was another person who he referred to me. That was an individual who had been indicted in California in connection with corporate acquisition. Was it just one other client that was referred to you by him? Answer. Well, of course, the Rothchild client was referred to me. Question. Okay, answer. Originally, when he called me, it was about a referral relating to this donor advised fund that he was working on with Mr. Gates. Question. Any others? Answer. Directly. Not that I can remember sitting here. Question. And how much in billing did those clients referred to you by Epstein accrue for Latham and Watkins? I don't remember the specific amount. Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? I don't remember the specific amount for the Rothschild representation. My best recollection is that it was in the single digit millions. Okay. Did Epstein ever help you in attaining your position at Goldman in 2020? No, he did not. Did he ever try to help you with landing any position at any other firm, including Facebook? Not limited to Facebook? Not to my knowledge at the time when Mr. Epstein. Mr. Epstein had nothing to do at all with the outreach that I got from Facebook. I had known for many years the retiring general counsel, and he reached out to me. I made the mistake, I think, of mentioning it to Mr. Epstein. And then, as was his typical fashion, what I've now seen is that he wanted to make himself relevant. And. And so he would offer all sorts of suggestions about negotiations around any offer. Question. I understand. I didn't ultimately didn't want an offer from Facebook and I didn't receive one, so his musings about that were not relevant. Question. I have an email here. It's Eftar 101-333-8849. Bait stamp. If you can share that with the witness, please. How would you like this marked? It's going to be Exhibit K. Minority Exhibit K. Question. And this is, as you can tell, this is an email that was originally from Cheryl Gould to you, which you then forwarded to Mr. Epstein later on. Yeah. Question. Okay, we can all read the substance of the email, but the first sentence of that email says, I certainly do hope at this time you understand the finality of. Of your relationship with my husband. She's referring to Reid Weingarten. Yes. I hope now you can find true happiness without having a relationship with somebody else's husband. Was Mr. Epstein aware of this relationship before Cheryl Gould became aware of this relationship? Is this relevant to your inquiry? Yes, absolutely. 100%. Okay. I'm happy to answer the question. Happy may not be the right word. It's surprising to me that this is something that you would spend your time on. But let's go ahead with it. So unbeknownst to me, or inexplicably, I came to learn that Mr. Epstein, Mr. Weingarten, had said something to Mr. Epstein about his feelings for me. I did not raise those. I didn't raise those with Mr. Epstein. Mr. Epstein raised it with me. Question. I guess my question is this. My question is what? Were you aware that Epstein knew about the relationship prior to the time that you became aware that Gould became aware of the relationship? Roomler, the answer is. I think I understand what you're asking. The answer is yes, and that's why I forwarded this. And to be clear, to be very clear, my relationship with Mr. Weingarten was. Which has absolutely nothing to do with Mr. Epstein whatsoever. Question. He didn't introduce you or anything else like that? Answer. No, as I. With apologies, I don't think you were here, Congressman, when I said this. He cold called me at my law firm. I was an unmarried person and Mr. Weingarten was an unmarried person. When I received this email, it was out of the blue. I was shocked and mortified, among other reactions. And the reason that I forwarded it to Epstein is because Epstein had raised with me that Mr. Weingarten had raised with him his feelings toward me. Question. Last question. In an earlier email and we can share this with you. You basically he said to you on July 9, 2017, can you and I have a coffee or meal with John Brennan? Rumor? Yes. Question. And in response you said that would be fun. I think you would be scared off because of your Google history. That was July 9, 2019. When did you become aware of Jeffrey Epstein's conviction for child prostitution? I became aware of it when he pled guilty to two prostitution related offenses, including solicitation of a minor for prosecution in or around July of 2014. Question. Thank you, Mr. Krishnamoorthy seeds to Representative Randall. Question. Thank you, Ms. Ruemmler. Earlier this year, the Miami Herald published a story describing how you work with Steve Bannon and others in 2018 and. And 2019. 2. I'm going to use quotes here to help counter the public narrative that was forming against Mr. Epstein after the Herald's perversion of Justice Investigation was published. What work did you do with Mr. Bannon? Answer. I didn't do any work with Mr. Bannon. Mr. Bannon was someone who I met on one or two occasions at business meetings, and I didn't work with him on anything. Mr. Ms. Randall, what's your understanding of Mr. Epstein's relationship with Mr. Bannon? I didn't know. I mean, they seem to be friendly, but I didn't know, like, beyond that. So, do you have any knowledge of Mr. Bannon ever acting as an intermediary between Epstein and Donald Trump? I don't. Question. In text messages From August of 2018 between Mr. Epstein and Mr. Bannon, Mr. Epstein wrote, Your girlfriend Rumler is coming over. Do you know why Epstein would refer to you in the manner, even jokingly? Lord knows, I have no idea. I'm going to list some names, and for these individuals, I would like to know if you were ever aware of Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell introducing them to any minor girls or young women for the purpose of engaging in sexual activity. Kimbal Musk. I'm not familiar with that name. Randall. Elon Musk's brother. Martin Nowak. I'm sorry, Would you mind repeating the preface of the question? Randall? Yeah. If you have any knowledge of Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell introducing them to any minor women or girls. Okay, thank you. I think you can answer the question as a whole, though. Yeah, I can answer them. The answer with respect to Mr. Nowak is no. With respect to both Epstein and Maxwell Randall. Richard Branson. Answer no. David Copperfield. Answer no. David Blaine. Answer no. Larry Summers. Answer no. Paulo Zampoli. Answer no. Peter Mandelson. Answer no. Henry Jarecki. I'm sorry. Henry Jarecki. Answer no. Stephen Hansen. Answer no. Alan Dershowitz. Answer no. Glenn Dubin. Answer no. Tom Pritzker. Answer no. And Ehud Barak. Answer, no. Question. Thank you. I appreciate you answering, Roomler. Yeah. And just to clarify the record, I'm unaware of any of that activity with respect to anyone at the time. Again, as I understand, the allegations that have been put forth by the Justice Department is that the activities involving Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell predated my knowing of Mr. Epstein by 10 years at least. So that's. I have no knowledge of anything, anything relating to those types of activities. Mr. Randall. Thank you, Mr. Min. Thank you. So now we have Mr. Min asking the questions. Ms. Ruemmler. I know it's been a long day. That means it sounds like it's over, Congressman. That's fine. That would be great. I don't know how much longer, but I wanted to switch to Brad Karp. And your relationship with him, how long have you known Mr. Karp? Probably 15 years. 15 years. So around 2011, 2010, yeah. Min. And how did you first meet him? Was it professional? Personal? Professional. Working on a case together? Interacting. Mr. Karp is a very prominent member of the legal community, and he was the chairman of min. Paul Weissler. Paul Weiss and I had multiple friends who were partners at Paul White also. Min can you remind me where you were again in 2011, 2010 of the. I apologize. I was working at the White House at the time. Mr. Min. At the White House. Okay, got it. And like, how often did you interact with him over that time? I knew Brad, but I came to the only memory I have of interaction with him is when I was leaving the White House to go back to the private sector. I spoke to a couple of law firms and Paul Weiss was one of them. And Paul Weiss was recruiting me to join the law firm, and I spoke with him quite a bit in that context. Min. And did you continue to speak with him after that point in time? Yeah. Question Professionally or Roomler Professionally. Question did you have any discussion or interaction relating to Jeffrey Epstein with Mr. Karp? Answer yeah, I was aware that Brad Karp knew Epstein in a very similar way that I knew Mr. Epstein in the sense that he had a client in the form of Apollo. Mr. Black was the chairman and and CEO of Apollo. And Mr. Epstein had a business relationship with Mr. Black. Similarly, I had a client relationship with the Rothschild bank, and Mr. Epstein had a separate business relationship with the bank. That was my understanding of how Mr. Karp knew Mr. Epstein. Mr. Min. And in 2014, there's an email from Jeffrey Epstein saying that he was introduced to you by Mr. Karp. Is that something that you would agree with the that gets cut off by Min. Mr. Epstein introduced you to Mr. Karp? No, Mr. Epstein just cold called my firm. He cold called your firm. If Mr. Karp had recommended me in some way, shape or form, I didn't know that. But you were introduced. Gets cut off by. No, we were not introduced. No. And so after that time when you were introduced or when Mr. Epstein called you over the next, I guess what, five, six years, how often would you and Mr. Karp discuss Epstein? Like once a week, once a month, once a year? Oh, gosh, no. I would say very rarely at some point in time. I think I mentioned earlier, Congressman, when you weren't in the room, that my observation was Epstein tried to make himself relevant. I heard you say that. Okay. Connecting people. And at that point, or some point, I think he tried to make himself relevant by talking to Mr. Karp about recruiting me to leave Latham and go to Paul Weiss. Mr. Min, just the last couple questions here. Did you communicate with Mr. Carp? Actually, I'll preface this by saying I have at least three emails saying I don't have the documents here, so would. You have to take my word on this, but on February 22, 2019, you were on an email with Mr. Carp that sent by Mr. Epstein updating you and Mr. Carp on developments in a lawsuit with one of his alleged victims. And on March 3, 2019, you are copied. Mr. Carr provided legal advice to Epstein, including regarding protecting his 2008 plea deal. And in March 31st of 2018 email exchange, you advised Mr. Epstein on certain steps he might take consider taking following a lawsuit against him. How often did you and Mr. Carp communicate about Epstein and in particular about legal strategy or legal advice during the period? Is that the entirety of it or was there more rumor? My. Again, my observation was that Epstein would ask me and other lawyers who he knew their views. It was sort of like a shotgun approach. It's one of the reasons I would have thought if he were my client, he would have been a maddening client because he shopped around. Okay, you knew Brad. Let me ask Brad what he thinks. I know Kathy. Let me ask Kathy what she thinks. That was my observation of the way that he engaged with Mr. Carp and the way that he engaged with me. Mr. Min, I'm told we're out of time, so thank you for your time. Redacted. We'll go off record. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
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