← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 4) (8/3/26)
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Kathy Ruemmler told congressional investigators that she regretted associating with Jeffrey Epstein but maintained that she did not know he was continuing to abuse girls and young women after his 2008 conviction. The former Obama White House counsel...
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And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with Kathy Ruemler and her interview with Congress. Question Were you shocked at all that Mr. Epstein was granted pretty compassionate work release? Answer I didn't know anything about the circumstances of that. You know, I didn't. Certainly compassionate release in law enforcement circles has a particular, it has a very specific meaning and it typically has to do with poor health or something like that. I didn't understand it to be anything along those lines. I believe that the state, you know, ultimately this was a state resolution that the federal government, you know, the federal government had made a decision not to prosecute him, but it was a state resolution. And the inference that I drew as a former federal prosecutor is that they reached the conclusion that he wasn't, you know, some kind of threat to the community. And again, that was also something that was consistent with someone who the evidence showed didn't intentionally target minors for sex. So it was just another factor, if you will, that again, drawing on my experience, suggested to me that this case was a case in which he was, you know, he was a customer of a prostitution. Customer. Question thank you, Mr. Emmer. We've had another member join. Can he please announce himself for the record? Yeah. Congressman Christian Menefee, Texas 18, Mr. Grant. Thank you, sir. Question Switching gears a little bit. We're coming towards the end of the first hour here, have you ever met Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer yes. Question when did you first meet Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer I've only met her once. The context of the meeting was that she was involved in civil litigation, and her lawyer there was either the litigation was in New York, and her lawyer there was some type of proceeding in the case, and as is very common in practice, her lawyer asked whether she could. They could use a conference room as a professional courtesy at my law firm, because her lawyer didn't have an office in New York. And so when they came to us to use the conference room, I went by to say hello. As a professional courtesy. Question. Did Mr. Epstein inform you that she would have a lawyer reaching out to you? No. The lawyer had asked. Again, her lawyer had asked whether she could use the conference room at my law firm as a professional courtesy. And of course, I said yes. And roughly, when was this? Gosh, I don't remember. I don't remember what year it was. Were you aware of Ms. Maxwell's relationship with Mr. Epstein at the time? I knew that he knew her, and I knew that she had been the subject of public allegations at the time, but I didn't know anything about, you know, what his relationship was with her. Question. Did Mr. Epstein discuss those public allegations of Ms. Maxwell with you? Answer. About Ms. Maxwell? There were, yes, insofar as they were part of a set of allegations that were made by a woman who said she had been victimized by Epstein and many others. So they were all related to allegations put forth by, you know, one victim, and the allegations were extensive. Question. And did Mr. Epstein discuss those allegations with you? Yes, he did, to the extent that there were media inquiries around arising from those allegations. So it was in the context of media inquiries that he, you know, he talked to me about it and asked my point of view about it. Question. And did he explain any of the details or facts to you, try to make a case to you of why they were or were not true? Answer he just told me that they weren't true. There wasn't quite, you know, just quite unequivocally. Question. And then, other than this one time, Ms. Maxwell used the office at your law firm, did you have any other interaction with Ms. Maxwell? Answer no question. Any other communications? Answer no question. Meetings? No. Were you aware that Mr. Epstein regularly entertained young women at his residences? Entertained, no. When around Mr. Epstein, how did Mr. Epstein act towards the young women or girls that were around them? I never saw any girls. I never saw Any girls around them at all? If you. By that you mean anyone under the age of 18. Question. Any young women at all, 20s, low 30s? Answer. Well, I wouldn't refer to women in their 20s as girls, so I'm just trying to be precise as to language. I never saw anybody under the age of 18 in Mr. Epstein's presence, with the exception of a meeting that I was attending with my client and my clients, one of my client's daughters. Question. Did Mr. Epstein ever discuss his relationship with young women in your presence? He did not discuss his relationship with women I knew he had a girlfriend that I had met on one or two occasions when I went to his townhouse for meetings. And his girlfriend was the same girlfriend for the entire period of time that I knew him. I didn't ask how old she was, but to my eyes she looked about 30. And who was that girlfriend? Her name was Corinia. I can't remember her last name. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein engage in any sexual contact? Absolutely not. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein have sexual contact of any kind with any young woman or girl? No. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein sexually abuse or assault young women or girls? No. Question. Did Mr. Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you? Answer. No, Mr. Fishman. Except for what she's already described. Ms. Rumler jumps in. Except for the historical conduct that led to his guilty plea in Florida, Mr. Grant. Understood. Question. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein receive a massage from a young woman or a girl? No. Question. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein pay women for massages? Answer. No. Question. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein giving cash to young women or girls? No. Question. Did you ever hear about Mr. Epstein receiving massages? No. Other than what we previously talked about, the conduct arising to his that gave rise to the guilty plea? Question. Did Mr. Epstein ever discuss getting massages? No. Other than, again, what he told me about the conduct that caused him, that forced him to plead guilty. And in 2008. Did you ever receive a massage from any young woman or girl brought to you by or introduced to you by Mr. Epstein? Absolutely not. Question. Have you ever been contacted by any law enforcement agency concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer. No. Question. Have you ever been interviewed by any law enforcement agency concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer. No. Question. Have you ever provided any information to law enforcement agencies concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer. No. Question. Did Jeffrey Epstein ever inform you or represent to you that he was working with intelligence services of any nation, including the United States? Answer no. Question. Did Ghislaine Maxwell ever inform you or represent to you that she was working with any intelligence service of any nation, including the United States? Answer no. Question. During your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell, did you ever suspect either of them being affiliated with any intelligence agency? Answer I had no relationship with Glenn Maxwell. The answer to both of them is no. Question. And at any time have you had an affiliation with. With any intelligence agency? Answer well, by affiliation, I was White House Counsel and a senior Justice Department official. In that capacity, I dealt with the dni, the CIA, and the nsa. Ndod. Question. But did you formally work Answer Senate Intelligence Committee, House Intelligence Committee. Question. Did you not formally work for any of those agencies? Answer I did not know. Now Mr. Grant jumps in and announces that there's another member of Congress that has joined the party. Tyler redick here from 2311 Racing, Victory Lane. Yeah, it's even better with Chumba by my side. Race to chumbacasino.com let's Chumba. No purchase necessary VTW Group void where prohibited by law. CTNCs 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. That member, Yasmin Ansari. Mr. Grant, thank you. And that will conclude our first hour. Redacted. Let's go back to the record now. It's Jasmine Crockett piping in. And for the purposes of the record, Representative Jasmine Crockett, Texas 30, is present. Mr. Lynch, could you please introduce yourself for the record? Sure. Congressman Steve Lynch, 8th congressional district of Massachusetts. Mr. Redacted. I just have one note before we begin. To the extent that any of our questions or your answers contain the names of survivors or their identifying information, we would ask that the majority redact that information prior to releasing the transcripts publicly. And with that, let's get started. Question by Redacted So, miss, in the majority's first hour, you talked a bit about attending Mr. Epstein's 2019 arraignment and hearing the charges and learning about those charges in the indictment. Do you remember what those charges were? Answer I do. In general, it was conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking. I believe it was two counts. One was conspiracy count, and the second one was, you know, what we would call a substantive count of sex trafficking. And in particular, the indictment was alleged that Epstein had enticed and recruited minors, minor girls, for sex in exchange for cash. Question do you recall what he used to entice or recruit those minors? Answer well, not specifically, I don't remember that. The indictment was specific in that regard. You know Typically for a federal indictment, there would need to be some instrumentality of interstate commerce. So, you know, a phone call, you know, an email or something like that. So that certainly would have been present, you know, in some respect. Question and at the arraignment you were at, the government told the court that Mr. Epstein's victims were, quote, initially recruited to provide massages to the defendant which would be performed nude or partially nude, would become increasingly sexual in nature, and would typically include one or more sex acts. Does that sound familiar? That's consistent with my understanding of what the charges were. Yes. If I don't remember those specific words. Yes. Question by Mr. Adacted I'll now introduce minority exhibit A which is a February 2016 email between you and Mr. Epstein. Yes. Question Mr. Epstein asks you, quote, we all set for a day of joy? Yes. Can you read for the record what you responded to, Mr. Epstein? Answer yes. I said, best massage ever, but not your kind of massage. And he replied, shame. Answer yeah. Question by February 2016, were you aware that Mr. Epstein had used massage appointments to entrap girls and women that he victimized? Answer. What I understood, you know, as I stated this morning, I certainly knew that he had pled guilty to two prostitution related offenses and that those that those involved that conduct involved sexualized massages. What I understood about the nature and scope of that conduct was that the vast majority of the women who had engaged in this activity with Mr. Epstein were over the age of 18. That some small number had turned out to be under the age of 18, but he had believed them to be over the age of 18. Question. Let's pause for a second. And that's where we're going to pause as well. And in the next episode dealing with the issue, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.