Lesley Groff And The Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 13) (7/8/26) - The Epstein Chronicles

Summary4 min read

The Epstein Chronicles

Host: Bobby Capucci
Episode: Lesley Groff and the Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 13)
Date: July 8, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Bobby Capucci examines a section of Lesley Groff's testimony before Congress regarding her associations and communications with Jeffrey Epstein after his first incarceration. The host reads and contextualizes exchanges concerning Groff’s role in arranging meetings, booking massages, and facilitating visa-related tasks for Epstein. The focus is on examining potential knowledge or willful ignorance by Groff of Epstein’s conduct, especially after his conviction, and her handling of payments and appointments for young women.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Groff’s Knowledge of Epstein’s Activities with Young Women

Congress questions whether Epstein’s philanthropy with organizations supporting young women was unique, given his status as a registered sex offender.
Groff claims no knowledge of any such unique interest.

2. Email Chains About Appointments and Massages

Detailed scrutiny of a 2011 email exchange where Groff organizes a meeting for Epstein with a young woman who is "nervous" and "has never done anything like this before" (03:30).
- Groff repeatedly claims she was busy and did not pay close attention to the nature of the appointment.
- Even under pressure, Groff denies knowing if the meeting was for a massage, despite being Epstein's massage appointment scheduler for years.

"You got to understand, my day was not just focused on this one area of appointments. I had so many other things going on as well." — Lesley Groff (05:15)

3. Payments for "Time Spent on the Island"

Introduction of a 2011 email where Groff asks Epstein how much to pay someone for “time spent on the island” (Little St. James). Epstein replies, "$600."
- Groff claims not to recall what the payment was for and suggests it could have been for architectural or design work.
- The congressional examiner confronts her with the typical rates Epstein paid girls for massages, suggesting the "600" likely refers to two paid encounters.
- Groff maintains ignorance at the time, only conceding in hindsight, with more information, that such an interpretation is now plausible.

“My mind, everything to me that I was doing, I feel like now looking through a dirty lens, things look dirty, but this time I was unaware of anything that was going on.” — Lesley Groff (12:55)

4. Groff’s Awareness Post-Incarceration

Congress highlights Epstein’s notoriety post-2008: the investigation, conviction, house arrest, and ongoing media scrutiny.
- Groff insists she believed Epstein’s narrative—that he was blackmailed, and that his legal issues related only to soliciting prostitution.
- Despite clear evidence and public knowledge, Groff maintains she was kept unaware and manipulated by Epstein.

5. Email on Visa-Related Requests (2019)

Groff is confronted with a 2019 email where she inquires about getting a visa for a young woman to attend a physical therapy program in New York.
- The email involves CUNY’s attorney, Arta Biscardis, who responds about checking visa eligibility.
- Groff repeatedly claims she was acting at Epstein’s direction and does not remember the specific request or individual involved.

"I don't recall this email. Sure that Mr. Epstein asked me to investigate this course. There's no reason that I... why else would I have investigated this course?" — Lesley Groff (20:35)

6. Groff’s Role in Facilitating Visas or Contacts

Congress asks whether Groff had a recurring role in securing programs or visas for women associated with Epstein.
- Groff denies having such a role or direct contact with institutional figures (like at CUNY) beyond relaying information at Epstein’s direction.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

Ambiguous Denials: Groff repeatedly claims ignorance or lack of recollection, even in the face of detailed documentation.
- "It doesn't say anything about massage. I don't know what this was for." (06:15)
- “Knowing what I know now, yes [it's a fair reading].” (08:20)
- “At the time, I was still being told that he had been blackmailed... I didn't know that these other things were occurring at the time. And he lied to me, he manipulated me, and he had me as well.” (13:25)
Congressional Frustration:
- The examiner pushes back: "[...] there was a lot of stories in the news about him. So actually, you did have information about who this man was and what he had done." (13:05)
- Objections from legal counsel underscore the tense atmosphere:
  - “You're asking her to speculate as to what this possibly could mean. It's kind of not fair, Ms. Groff.” (09:25)
  - “Objection. That's not what she said. You're mischaracterizing her testimony. The rules of evidence do not apply here…” (15:50)

Notable Segment Timestamps

03:30 — Examination of the “nervous young woman” scheduling email
06:15 — Groff denies email clearly refers to massage
09:25 — Legal objections regarding request for speculation
12:55 — Payment discussion for “time on the island”
13:25 — Groff claims she was misled/manipulated by Epstein
20:35 — Visa inquiry for a young woman involving CUNY
End — Closure and preview of next episode

Episode Tone

The episode is methodical, scrutinizing each element of the testimony for contradictions, evasions, or evidence of willful ignorance. The host’s reading and the congressional examiner’s questioning are relentless but procedural, reflecting the gravity and complexity underlying Epstein’s network and the struggle to obtain accountability.

Useful For Listeners Who:

Want an unvarnished, close-up look at the testimonies tied to Epstein’s inner circle.
Are tracking how Epstein’s associates respond to specifics about their role post-conviction.
Seek a detailed, timestamped breakdown of how congressional inquiries are handled, with direct quotations and context.

For full details, source documents, and further analysis, see the episode description box.

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Transcript1 lines

[00:00]
A
What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Leslie Groff interview with Congress. Ms. Brignac, were there any other organizations that promoted the advancement of young women that Mr. Epstein was involved with? Answer. Not that I can think of. Question. Did you find this to be unique interest of a registered sex offender? Answer. That he was friends with Barbro. Question. That he was paying large sums of money to a school after meeting with young women that attended that school. I thought he was supporting Barbro and the Stockholm School of economics. Question. Okay, Ms. Tolan. Okay, that will conclude our hour here. We'll go off the record. Question. Ms. Groff, you previously testified that Mr. Epstein was incarcerated. You stopped booking massages Forum, Is that correct? Answer Correct. I would like to introduce as minority exhibit C this email exchange between you and a redacted person from October 21, 2011. The Bates number is EFTA 00921 819. In this exchange, you write to this person. Jeffrey says he called you at 10:30 last night, but no answer. He's wondering if you might like to stop by today at either 3 or 7. There's some back and forth about scheduling. And then the person says, redacted. Just got back and spoke to her now about tonight. She's never done anything of this sort before and is a little nervous about the whole thing. I don't know what Jeffrey has planned for tonight, but is it okay if they just meet at this time? She would really feel more comfortable that way. You then forward the email to Mr. Epstein and he says, quote, of course, when this person said that this other person, presumably their friend, quote, has never done anything of this sort before and was, quote, a little nervous about the whole thing, what did you understand her to mean? You gotta understand, my day was super busy. I'm sure that I barely read this email and she gets cut off. Well, you clearly registered what she said because you forwarded her question onto Mr. Epstein and he said, of course. So you must have registered it if you knew she was making a request of you that you needed his sign off for. Right. Answer. I'm sure that I did not put that much thought into it. I'm sure that my day. You got to understand my day was not just focused on this one area of appointments. I had so many other things going on as well. Question. I understand that answer. And. Right. And so. Question. It doesn't answer my question, though. Ms. Grof, what do you think this Person's friend had never done before? I don't know. Question. What do you think this person's friend was nervous about? I don't know. Question. Do you think that it's a fair reading of this email chain that Mr. Epstein called someone, likely a girl or a young woman, at 10:30 at night, they didn't pick up, and then asked you to contact them to schedule a massage? You did that. And the thing that this person was nervous about, the thing that they never done before, was massaging Mr. Epstein, whatever that might have meant. Is that a fair reading of this email, Ms. Groff? Answer. It doesn't say anything about massage. I don't know what this was for. Mr. Bauchner, are you asking whether today she would agree that this could be a fair reading of what you're saying or what she knew back then? Answer or question. I mean, I understand that she's testifying that she does not remember this particular instance. I'm asking her, given that you. Given that you do not remember it, and also that you did schedule massages for this man for a long time, whether it's fair reading of this chain, that what I described earlier is what happened? Knowing what you know now? Knowing what I know now, yes. Ms. Grof, this email is from 2011. You previously testified that after Mr. Epstein was incarcerated, you stopped booking massages for him. That's correct. He was incarcerated from 2008 to 2009, correct? Correct. So wouldn't this suggest that you continued to book massages for him? I would not have known that this was a massage. I don't know. You're assuming that I would think that this was a massage, but I did not think of it as a massage. I said I probably didn't put that much thought into it. I was super busy. I just needed to know if he would be able to meet with this person. He. He said yes, and I'm sure my day just moved on. Well, surely he instructed you to reach out to this person, though, because you're the first one in the email. You email, and you say he called you last night at 10:30? Yes. So when he instructed you, wouldn't he have said, hey, Ms. Groff, can you schedule this person for a massage? I'm sorry to interrupt. If we knew the redacted name, maybe that could help her know what this is about. But right now, it's a redacted name. You're asking her to speculate as to what this possibly could mean. It's kind of not fair, Ms. Groff. I was Just making an appointment for him as requested. He wanted to know if this person could come over at 3 or 7. And as directed by him, I asked if this person could come over at 3 or 7. Redacted. So your testimony today is that as far as you know, this was not the book of massage, and you stand by your earlier statement that Mr. Epstein was incarcerated. You no longer book massages for him, Ms. Groff? That is correct. Except for maybe the one time in Palm beach at the medical spa after he was incarcerated. Did you coordinate payment for massages, Ms. Groff? No question. I would like to introduce this minority exhibit D, this email exchange between you and Mr. Epstein from September 19, 2011. The Bates number is EFTA 01855 069. In the first email you write to Mr. Epstein that redacted would like to pick up money for time spent on the island. How much should I tell redacted to give her? Mr. Epstein then responds, 600. And you've mentioned redacted before. Can you remind me what her role was? She was in the accounting department. And the island refers to Little St. James, correct? Correct. What was your understanding of why this person was being paid for the time they spent on the island? I unfortunately don't know who this person is. I don't recall this email, and I don't know what this person was doing. He had architects and decorators and artists go to his island. He was constantly trying to redecorate and do things there. I don't know what this was for. Question. The email doesn't say for any kind of specific task, right? It doesn't say for redecorating. It doesn't say for building. It says for time spent on the island, and the amount is 600. Correct answer. Correct question. When Mr. Epstein would pay girls and women for massages where he sexually abused them, he would typically pay them 2 or 300. Correct answer. Correct question. So isn't it a fair reading of this email? The 600 is likely for two instances where Mr. Epstein received a massage and sexually abused a girl or a young woman. Answer. At the time, I. I did not know that's what was occurring. I never saw anything inappropriate, so my mind was not going in the direction you're trying to take. My mind, everything to me that I was doing, I feel like now looking through a dirty lens, things look dirty, but this time I was unaware of anything that was going on. Question. So this was 2011, though. So you weren't aware because you had been investigated or he had been Investigated and arrested. He pleaded guilty to the charges, one of which involved a minor. He had been incarcerated. He'd been on house arrest. There was a lot of stories in the news about him. So actually, you did have information about who this man was and what he had done. Admittedly, that was not complete. But wouldn't that have informed you of how to understand this email? Answer. At the time, I was still being told that he had been blackmailed and that this sentence was for soliciting a prostitute. I didn't know that these other things were occurring at the time. And he lied to me, he manipulated me, and he had me as well. It seems to me everyone else believing that this was. That things out there were being said were wrong and just false question. And what about looking back at it now? Do you think that it was a fair reading of the email? Is that a girl or young woman who was on the island was asking to be paid for instances where she was sexually abused? Answer. In hindsight, and being able to see the big picture in his emails and what everybody is saying now. Yeah, it's terrible. Question. Okay. And this is also from 2011, so also for his incarceration. So then your previous statement about how he didn't help pay girls who had massaged him after his Incarceration was incorrect, Mr. Whitcomb. Objection. That's not what she said. You're mischaracterizing her testimony. The rules of evidence do not apply here. Please answer the question, Mr. Whitcomb. Yeah, but the rules of fairness apply. Could you please answer the question? Object to the form of the question, too. It's incoherent. Mr. Could you just add the word knowingly? I mean, her testimony earlier was that she didn't knowingly do that. Okay, great. Let's clarify that. Would you now say, looking at the email as we discussed it, what you have agreed is a fair characterization of it? It appears that after he was incarcerated, you did, in fact, facilitate payment for a massage. That's also not what she said. She said it's a fair reading to say it could have happened. It's not what she knows happened or did happen. Whitcomb asking for speculation as well. Bauchner. It's redacted. So you stand by your previous testimony that you did not do that after he was incarcerated? Ms. Groff. That's correct. I did not know what this was for. I don't recall the email. I don't know. Bochner. Again, the subject line is redacted. The name is redacted. We understand, Mr. Bauchner. Thank you. You also previously testified that you had no role in sponsorship or visa sponsorship. Is that correct? Grof? Well, I. Correct. Question I would like to introduce as minority Exhibit E, this email exchange between you, Mr. Epstein, Arta Bescardis from April 5, 2019. The Bates number is EFTA 00493112. Question. Starting from the bottom of the first page, you email Mr. Epstein the details of a physical therapy program at Lutheran Hospital in Brooklyn and say, quote, would this work? Can she get her visa and go to New York by April 15th? Then you email the course information to Mr. Biscardis and he responds, quote, I'm actually CUNY's attorney. I'll contact them directly, need to see if they give visas. Why were you emailing this information about this program to Mr. Epstein and asking about whether an individual could get her visa and get to New York by a specific date? Grof. I don't recall this email. Sure that Mr. Epstein asked me to investigate this course. There's no reason that I. Why else would I have investigated this course? I don't know who this person is. Question. Did you have a role in researching potential programs for girls or women connected to Mr. Epstein that they could then use to secure visas? Answer no. This is. I was not asked. It looks like I was asked to investigate a course as directed, but this I did not speak to Arta. I merely would put Mr. Epstein in touch with him as a phone call, as somebody that he wanted to speak with. But I don't know why I was asked to go look at the course. Okay. Even though you explicitly reference a visa in your email to Mr. Epstein, it was probably something that I was asked by Mr. Epstein if she could get her visa. I don't know. I don't recall this. Just a few quick questions about Mr. Biscardis. What was your understanding of his role at CUNY? He was a professor. Question. To your knowledge, did he ever use his position at CUNY to have women affiliated with Mr. Epstein admitted into any program at that institution? I don't know. Question to your knowledge, did he ever use his position at CUNY to secure visas for any woman affiliated with Mr. Epstein? I don't know. Question did you ever get his contact information to anyone in Mr. Epstein's network? Answer, I don't know. Question do you have any memory of his contact to Leon Black or anyone who worked for Leon Black? Answer, I don't know. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode, dealing with the topic. We're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.