Lesley Groff And The Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 17) (7/12/26)

Summary

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The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: Lesley Groff And The Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 17)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: July 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode continues Bobby Capucci's meticulous coverage of Lesley Groff's congressional testimony. Groff, a former Epstein executive assistant, is questioned by congressional staffers (primarily identified as Ms. Tolan and Mr. Timmons) about her role in Epstein's daily operations, specifically focusing on the extensive scheduling of appointments, meetings with high-profile individuals, and the logistics surrounding Epstein's network of massage therapists and personal assistants. The episode provides new insight into the inner workings of Epstein's infrastructure, how Groff operated as a gatekeeper, and the "tools of control" that were allegedly used on women in Epstein's circle.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Epstein's Scheduling and Meeting Patterns

• High Volume of Daily Meetings

  • Lesley Groff confirmed that Epstein took multiple appointments every day ([00:25]).
  • She was responsible for managing and sending daily calendars, which often included high-profile names.

• Purpose of Meetings Remained Opaque

  • Groff repeatedly stated she did not know the purpose of Epstein’s meetings or their specific content ([01:50], [03:34], [04:41], etc.).
  • She was not present for, nor did she overhear, discussions in these meetings.

2. Interactions with Notable Figures

• Routine Questions Re: High-Profile Visitors

  • Groff was questioned about her knowledge or interaction with several high-profile individuals. Her responses reflected limited contact and little direct knowledge of what occurred in meetings ([01:17]-[08:08]):

    • Tom Pritzker: Knew of him, not frequent, never present for meetings.
    • Frederick Faki: Knew of him, not frequent, no presence.
    • Leon Black: Thought he was a business client, more frequent meetings (monthly), never present.
    • Larry Summers: Considered “friendly,” not frequent, Groff had no insight.
    • Jes Staley: Assumed business (possibly banking), not frequent, minimal interaction.
    • Bill Gates: Did not know the relationship, Epstein went to meet Gates elsewhere. "He was like the one person that Mr. Epstein tended to go and meet versus have him at his home." ([06:34])
    • Ariane Rothschild: Thought she was a client, not frequent, never present.
    • Alan Dershowitz: Epstein's attorney, not frequent.
    • Ms. Rumler: Previously addressed, added confirmation regarding scheduling.

• Young Women or Girls Present?

  • Across all names, Groff said she did not see young women or girls present for meetings, except that "some traveling assistants may have been around the house and brought in coffee" ([04:15]).

3. Managing Massage Schedules and Therapists

• Volume and Frequency

  • Groff scheduled massages for Epstein, typically three or four times a week when he was in New York ([08:31]-[09:34]).
  • Estimate of different massage therapists ranged from 10-30 during her tenure.

• Timeline of Scheduling

  • She stopped scheduling massages after Epstein’s jail sentence (no more after 2010).
  • Unsure if massages were scheduled between 2006-2008.

• Knowledge of Abuse Allegations

  • Groff stated she did not know the details that led to Epstein's arrest: “the reason he went to jail was procuring an underage prostitute or solicitation of a prostitute.” ([09:56])
  • Maintained she was uninformed about the specifics both then and now ([10:20]).

4. Methods and Tools of Control Over Women

• "Seven Survivors" and Control Structures

  • Post-2010, Epstein allegedly began controlling a new group of young women by providing them apartments, credit cards, and by controlling their access ([11:30]-[13:12]).
  • Epstein, often via intermediaries (sometimes alleged to be Groff), maintained leverage through:
    • Control of apartment PIN codes ([12:17])
    • Control of finances and cell phones; surveillance claims.

• Groff’s Denial of Involvement

  • Groff admitted having knowledge of the PIN codes but denied ever changing them or controlling apartment access ([12:55]).
  • Denied knowing Epstein told women his surveillance extended to them ([13:17]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Epstein Meeting Bill Gates Elsewhere:
  “He was like the one person that Mr. Epstein tended to go and meet versus have him at his home.”
  — Lesley Groff ([06:34])

• Question on Young Women/Girls in Meetings:
  “Some traveling assistants may have been around the house and brought in coffee. But I don’t know. I didn’t sit in the meeting, so I don’t know.”
  — Lesley Groff ([04:15])

• On Number of Massage Therapists:
  “Different? It’s difficult for me to say... Okay, 30.”
  — Lesley Groff ([09:18])

• On Knowledge of Charges:
  “The reason he went to jail was procuring an underage prostitute or solicitation of a prostitute.”
  — Lesley Groff ([09:56])

• Control Via Apartment PIN Codes:
  “I did know the codes on the apartments, but I had nothing to do with them.”
  — Lesley Groff ([12:17])

• Denial of Involvement in Surveillance:
  “I did not know that that’s what he was telling them. I had zero knowledge of that.”
  — Lesley Groff ([13:17])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:25 – Groff confirms Epstein’s multiple daily meetings
• 01:17-08:08 – Anderson questions Groff about prominent visitors (Pritzker, Black, Summers, Staley, Gates, Rothschild, Dershowitz, Rumler)
• 04:15 – On young women or girls being present in meetings
• 08:31-09:34 – Scheduling massages: numbers and frequency
• 09:56 – Groff’s understanding of Epstein’s conviction
• 12:17 – Discussion of control over apartment PIN codes
• 13:17 – Denial of knowledge regarding surveillance claims

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Tone and Style

The episode, true to Bobby Capucci’s style, is methodical, relentless, and unvarnished. Capucci maintains a neutral but probing tone, letting the congressional transcript speak for itself while highlighting evidence of structures of control and the opacity surrounding Epstein’s inner circle.

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Conclusion

This episode further demystifies the mechanical yet secretive operations within Epstein’s network, illustrated by Groff’s routine, detached answers amid questions about powerful men, suspect scheduling, and the infrastructure of control allegedly wielded against women. The testimony is notable for its admissions of limited knowledge, procedural regularity, and the disconnect between Epstein’s logistics and the criminal activities for which he was ultimately convicted. The narrative leaves listeners waiting for Part 18, where Capucci promises to delve deeper.

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Transcript

[A]

What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with Leslie Groff and her transcript from her meeting with Congress. And now it's Ms. Tolan asking the questions. In our last hour, we talked a lot, and we're getting into the details about scheduling all kinds of appointments for Mr. Epstein. Just a general question. We mentioned the schedules.

[B]

And.

[A]

And we reviewed the schedule as well. But Mr. Epstein took multiple appointments a day, every single day. Is that correct?

[B]

Answer Correct.

[A]

Do you know why? What the purpose of taking so many meetings was?

[B]

I don't know why?

[A]

He was a businessman. Question. And now I would like to introduce Majority Exhibit 7. This is a compilation of some of those individual calendars that were sent from your email account to Jeffrey Epstein. There are examples that we received from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein. The first calendar, the Bates number is House Oversight 00110. I can give you a moment to review. Want me to look at all of them?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm going to ask you some questions about specific individuals on this list. But again, these are representative of what a normal day in Mr. Epstein's life looked like and what you were responsible for scheduling.

[B]

Answer. Yeah.

[A]

Question. I'm gonna start on the first page. I'm gonna work through a couple individuals on this list and ask you a set of questions for each individual. I'm gonna start with Tom Pritzker. What did you understand his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? A.B. i think he knew Tom Pritzker even before my time. They were friendly, but I don't know. We didn't discuss it. Question. Was he a frequent visitor of Mr. Epstein? Answer. I wouldn't say frequent. I guess when he was in town, they'd get together. Question. And what was the purpose of those meetings?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

I don't know. Question. Were you ever present in any of these meetings?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever overhear parts of the meetings or were you told about what was discussed?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

My office was way in the front of the house. His meetings all occurred in the dining room, which was on the other side of the house. I was far away. And did you ever engage with Mr. Pritzker directly? Not that I recall. I'm gonna move next to Frederick Faki. What did you understand his relationship with Mr. Epstein? A be. I guess they were friendly.

[B]

I don't really know.

[A]

And he was a frequent visitor of Mr. Epstein? I wouldn't say frequently. Probably whenever he was in town. Same sort of thing. And do you know the Purpose of their meetings?

[B]

No.

[A]

Were you ever present in any of the meetings?

[B]

No.

[A]

Question. Did you ever overhear discussions from the meetings?

[B]

No.

[A]

Question. Did you ever interact or engage in conversation with Mr. Fakai? No, I don't think I ever met him. Did you ever see any unusual or concerning activity taking place during his meetings with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Next I'm going to ask about Leon Black. Same set of questions. What did you understand his relationship to be with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

I thought they had business relationship. I thought he was one of Epstein's clients. Question and was he a frequent visitor of Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

Leon was probably more frequent. Yes. Question Was there any frequent basis with meetings with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Monthly?

[A]

Weekly?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

Not weekly. Monthly probably. Question and what was the purpose of their meetings?

[B]

Answer I don't know.

[A]

Question. Anything besides business as you mentioned?

[B]

Answer I don't know.

[A]

I don't know what they were meeting about. Question and were you ever present in any of these meetings with Mr. Black?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever overhear discussions or were you told about conversations from any of these meetings?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever speak or engage with Mr. Black directly?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever see any unusual or concerning activity taking place during his meetings with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Were any young women or girls ever present for his meetings with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

Some traveling assistants may have been around the house and brought in coffee.

[B]

But. But I don't know.

[A]

I didn't sit in the meeting, so I don't know. Question. Next, I'm going to turn to Larry Summers. What did you understand Mr. Summers relationship with Mr. Epstein to be?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

Friendly. Question and the same lines of questioning. Was he a frequent visitor of Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

I wouldn't say frequent. Question do you know the purpose of his meetings with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

I do not. Question. And were you present for any of the meetings?

[B]

No.

[A]

Question. Did you overhear any conversations?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. And now I'm going to ask about his name. Appears on page two. But it's Jess Staley. What did you understand his relationship to be with Mr. Epstein? I thought that was business. Do you know what kind of business? No. Banking?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Was he a frequent visitor of Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

When Mr. Epstein would be in town, they would probably get together. I wouldn't say every time that Mr. Epstein was in town, but Jess would come by. Question. Do you know the purpose of his meetings with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer I do not.

[A]

Question. Were you ever present for any of the meetings between Epstein and Staley?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever overhear a conversation or discussion about the meetings with Staley?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever speak with or engage with Mr. Staley directly?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

I might have in passing said hello to him, but we didn't engage in conversation. Question. Did you ever see any unusual or concerning activity take place during his meetings with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Were young women or girls present for the meetings? Answer no. I mean, I could be the same traveling assistants that brought in a cup of coffee or something like that, but I wasn't back there. Question. And I think we're just gonna go through another name to be name or so here on page three. Back at page three, Bill Gates is listed. What was your understanding of Mr. Gates relationship with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

I didn't know what their relationship was. Friendly is what I assumed. Question. Was he a frequent I know this is a meeting at a different location, but was he a frequent visitor of Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

Mr. Epstein tended to go and meet Mr. Gates. Question. Elsewhere.

[B]

Answer. Elsewhere.

[A]

He was like the one person that Mr. Epstein tended to go and meet versus have him at his home. Question. Do you know why? Answer I don't. Question. Did Mr. Gates ever come to New York residents for meetings?

[B]

Answer I don't know.

[A]

Question. Do you know the purpose of their meetings?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Were you ever present for any of the meetings?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever overhear discussions about what went on in the meetings?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever engage with Mr. Gates directly?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Do you know if young women or girls were ever present in their meetings?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. And one more here. Ariane Rothchild.

[B]

Answer. Huh?

[A]

Question. What was the nature of his relationship to Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

I thought she was a client. Question. Her. Sorry. Was she a frequent visitor of Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Do you know the purpose of their meetings?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Were you ever present Answer no. Question. Did you ever overhear conversation?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. Did you ever engage with her directly?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Question. And then. Sorry, one more name here. Alan Dershowitz. What did you understand his relationship to be with Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer.

[A]

He was his attorney. Question. Was he a frequent visitor of Mr. Epstein? Answer no. Question. Do you know the purpose of their meetings?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Did you overhear discussions?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Did you engage with Mr. Dershowitz yourself?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Maybe in passing.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

But that was it. Question. And then we've already covered. Ms. Rumler would be the last one I would like to ask about. But we already covered the nature of their relationship. So I just have one general Question around her for scheduling, were young women or girls ever prohibited from being scheduled on the same day or around the same time as Ms. Rumler would come to meet Mr. Epstein?

[B]

Answer no.

[A]

Did you ever believe that Ms. Rumler had a romantic relationship with Mr. Epstein? Ms. Groff no. Mr. Timmons asking the question. So from 2001 to 2006, you were responsible for Epstein's schedule, is that correct? GROF yes. Timmons and you scheduled many massages? Just approximately how many a day or a week? I mean, a couple times a week, every day? GROF I would say, you know, possibly daily, but there were definitely times when he would not have a massage. TIMMONS so on average three or four times a week? GROF well, it would be when he was in New York, which was typically three days. TIMMINS okay, and you said earlier, remind me, how many during that period of time, how many different massage therapists do you think were scheduled? Ballpark. GROF Different? It's difficult for me to say.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Timmons Dozens. Grof 10. Timmons cuts her off hundreds. Groff 2015. Timmons okay, I think you said 30 earlier, but okay. Grof okay, 30. Timmin so, so just a dozen.

[B]

Cross. GROF yeah.

[A]

Timmons A dozen or two dozen. And you never did you ever interact with a massage therapist individually during the time period? Groff no question by. Timmons so he was arrested in 2006. When did you you said you never scheduled a massage after he got out of jail in 2010. After his arrest, before he went to jail, did you ever schedule any massages during that time between 2006 and 2010? Groff2006, 2010 no. I mean, well, he was TIMMONS cuts her off he was in jail from 2008, sort of. GROF Right. So it's possible between 2006 and 2008. I I don't recall question by Timmons okay, but you do recall specifically that when he got out of jail, there were no more massages? Grof Correct question okay, and are you aware when did you read the non prosecution agreement? When were you made aware of that? I believe after he went to jail. TIMMONS okay, and what is your current when he went to jail and got out, what was your understanding of the reason that he went to jail? Groff the reason he went to jail was procuring an underage prostitute or solicitation of a prostitute. TIMMONS okay. Did you know anything surrounding the incidents that they were charging him with? GROF no. TIMMONS did you then or do you Now. GROF no, I don't know how it occurred. Is that what you mean? TIMMINS sure. So basically, he had a number of different people that were procuring underage women or of age women and scheduling massages and then either soliciting them by paying them extra money or physically sexually assaulting them and raping them. And someone finally told somebody, and that's how he got arrested. And there were issues with the case, and so he pled guilty, and here we are. So, I mean, I would imagine that his lawyers included the people that were scheduling these massages. Sarah Kellen was horrified that she was on there as well, but she acknowledged that she scheduled massages as well. So his attorneys probably included that. So what time of day, Generally speaking, between 2001 and 2006, were the massages scheduled? Generally, were they in the morning? GROF Daytime. QUESTION Were they in the evening daytime? GROF Daytime. TIMMONS okay, I'm going to fast forward to post 2010. It seems that from 2010, really to 2012, 13, he went on a sprint to find a group of women that he would leverage to put in his service. I'm going to refer to them as the seven Survivors. I don't really consider redacted to be a survivor. I think she was elevated above what she was originally brought in for. So these seven survivors were brought into the U.S. they were all young, they were all very attractive, and they are methods of control, and they are tools of control. And whether you realize that you are critical to the tools and the methods of control is one question. But, I mean, I guess I just want to talk about them. So there's credit cards. So Epstein and Dyke, while redacted, would take out credit cards in their names. They would create businesses in their names. These seven women that were quote, unquote, assistants, and he would then leverage their finances. He gave him a place to stay. And you were aware that they all stayed in the same house with the exception of redacted. I asked you earlier about the PIN numbers. So it's my understanding that you control the PIN numbers for the doors of their apartments and to be very careful because they did you have the ability to change. Did you ever change? Did you control, did you know the codes and into their apartments? Ms. Groff I never changed any codes. TIMMONS did you know the codes of their apartments? GROF I did know the codes on the apartments, but I had nothing to do with them. TIMMINS did you ever change the codes? GROF no. TIMMINS Would you be surprised if there's an email from you stating that you changed the code. GROF well, maybe there was something wrong with the code.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

TIMMONS okay, so you could have changed the codes. GROF well, they were very difficult machines. I I don't know. I never went in and changed them myself. TIMMONS so you have the tools of control and methods of control. Epstein would tell the victims of survivors that their PIN number would be changed if they didn't do what he said. He did not give them leases. They were at his benevolence. Just yet another one of his methods of control. The tool was the apartment, the ability to control whether they were able to go into their apartment. And he did that through you. But again, you didn't know. So, computers and phones. He gave them computers and their cell phones, and he told them that they were being surveilled and that they could do whatever they wanted, but just know that he was watching. So does that surprise you, that he would say that to them? GROF I did not know that that's what he was telling them. I had zero knowledge of that. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.