Lesley Groff And The Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 18) (7/14/26)

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: Lesley Groff and the Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 18)
Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: July 14, 2026

---

Overview

This episode of The Epstein Chronicles delves into the congressional hearing transcript of Lesley Groff, a longtime assistant to Jeffrey Epstein, as she is questioned by congressional staff regarding her role, knowledge, and potential complicity in Epstein's operations. The focus is on her administrative responsibilities, the layers of control exerted over survivors and staff, and the mechanics of how Epstein maintained dominion using seemingly mundane tasks — such as booking hair and medical appointments. The session exposes the tension between Groff’s claims of ignorance and the congressional panel’s pressing inquiries about her possible awareness of abuse, financial manipulation, and systemic control.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Epstein’s Methods of Control Over Staff and Survivors

Timestamps: 01:01–06:00

• Hair Appointments as a “Privilege” and Signal of Control

  • Groff admits she occasionally arranged for herself and other staff to have appointments at the high-end “Fakai” salon, but always under Epstein’s explicit approval.
  • Only a select few got access without his direct say-so, based on an email:

    “Jeffrey says that me and two of the seven survivors are authorized to make our own appointments.”

  • Timmons pushes the symbolism:

    "So the king giveth and the king taketh away." (03:02)
    If you didn’t comply or “smile,” access to perks — phone, computer, or even personal grooming — could be revoked.

• Denial and Perception of Abuse

  • Groff repeatedly claims she saw no signs of distress:

    “Everyone was very, very happy. No one ever came to me and showed me any duress, said that they were unhappy.” (03:53)

  • Congressional staff highlight survivor testimony indicating that after appointments, women often needed to “take a shower or clean off due to assault,” questioning Groff’s obliviousness.

    "The seven survivors will testify eventually that about one third of the time they would go back, the assault was so bad that they would have to take a shower or clean off. So the fact that you never saw any of them leave with wet hair is somewhat surprising.” (05:42)

2. Immigration and Financial Coercion

Timestamps: 06:00–08:30

• Facilitating Citizenship & Travel Arrangements

  • Groff insists her role was limited to making travel bookings, “never seeing anyone not want to go.”
  • Timmons raises the concept of using immigration status as leverage against survivors, which Groff denies knowing about.

• Creation of Businesses and Credit Lines in Victims’ Names

  • Groff denies knowledge of any financial fraud but emphasizes Epstein’s total control, stating that staff and attorneys would only act on his orders:

    “He was very, very controlling. … I don't know about any of that.” (07:28)

  • When pressed about fiduciary responsibility or illegal creation of credit lines in others' names, Groff pleads ignorance.

3. Groff’s Hindsight Reflections and Congressional Frustration

Timestamps: 08:30–10:05

• Realization Only “In Hindsight”

  • Groff concedes, when pressed hard, that "stepping back, I can see how that could have been" a system of monitoring and control, but firmly denies any knowledge at the time.

• Congressional Skepticism

  • Timmons points to three victims’ testimony that 98% of their appointments involved sexual abuse, expressing incredulity at Groff’s claim of unawareness:

    “And I guess you're to have us believe that that was completely oblivious to you. I don't have any more questions.” (08:56)

4. Detailed Examination of Specific Administrative Duties

Timestamps: 10:16–13:50

• Hair Appointments: Specifics of Procedure and Payment

  • Groff explains she scheduled upmarket salon visits because “I was Mr. Epstein's secretary and he would direct me to make appointments.” (11:00)
  • Salon bills were paid through an account Epstein kept. She confirms Epstein dictated style, color, and cut, but claims she “learned that was something he did” only while preparing for testimony.

• Medical and Psychological Appointments

  • Exhibit 9 focuses on an April 2014 email chain about a “partial exam” for a Polish-speaking woman with Dr. Neil Voris, a clinical psychologist.
  • Groff claims:

    “I believe she's taking some sort of written exam. I don't know, to be a doctor or a nurse. ... I don't recall the email.” (11:12)

  • Panel clarifies Dr. Voris is a psychologist; Groff maintains ignorance, saying, “I don't know. I didn't know what kind of doctor Dr. Neil Voris is.” (12:23)
  • When asked if scheduling medical exams was common, Groff says this instance was “unique,” reiterating lack of awareness of any medical context.

---

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• “The king giveth and the king taketh away.”
  Timmons (03:02) highlighting the feudal-style control Epstein exerted.

• “Everyone was very, very happy. No one ever came to me and showed me any duress, said that they were unhappy.”
  Groff (03:53) on her perceived office atmosphere.

• “So the fact that you never saw any of them leave with wet hair is somewhat surprising.”
  Timmons (05:42) doubts Groff’s assertion of ignorance given later survivor claims.

• “He was very, very controlling… I don't know about any of that.”
  Groff (07:28) denying knowledge of financial crimes while asserting Epstein’s dominance.

• “Stepping back, I can see how ... that could have been.”
  Groff (08:27) only acknowledges the abusive system in retrospect.

• “I'm sorry. I wish I could tell you more, but really, I don't know what this is.”
  Groff (13:09) repeatedly claims gaps in memory or knowledge about odd administrative tasks.

---

Important Timestamps

• 01:01 – Congress begins direct questioning; focus on perks, grooming, and control
• 03:02 – "The king giveth and the king taketh away": power games around privileges
• 04:50 – Survivor accounts challenge Groff’s limited perception
• 07:28 – Discussion on financial coercion and alleged creation of credit lines
• 08:27 – Groff admits, in hindsight, the systems of control
• 10:16 – Return to minutiae of administrative duties: medical and hair appointments
• 11:00-13:50 – Detailed questioning on personal services arranged for staff and survivors, Groff’s denials

---

Tone and Style

• The congressional questioning is pointed, at times sarcastic, consistently skeptical of Groff’s claims to ignorance.
• Groff remains calm but evasive, frequently answering with “I don’t know,” “I don’t recall,” or logical deflections.
• The overall mood is tense, with persistent attempts to break through Groff’s claimed compartmentalization and expose the everyday mechanisms that allowed Epstein's abuse to proliferate unchecked.

---

Next Episodes:
Host Bobby Capucci wraps up the session, promising more on the transcript in upcoming episodes, urging listeners to consult the episode description for related documents and resources.

---

Transcript

[John Daly]

Here's golf legend John Daly.

Hell, yeah. These wins are piling up faster than my divorces. I only spent on moto, America's social casino. You know, I've won a couple of majors, and on Moto, I've won majors, grads and epic jackpots on their classic Vegas slots with huge, huge bonus rounds. Motocasino adds new games and awards. Players free coins every single day. Grip it and spend it on MotoCasino.

Download the Moto Casino app today. Moto Casino is a social casino point where prohibited. No purchase necessary. Visit Moto Us for more details.

[Orderly Meds Advertiser]

Summer is here, which means we all want to look and feel our best. A GLP 1 may be right for you. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more about which GLP 1 you could be eligible for. Getting started is fast, easy, and happens virtually through telemedicine from licensed professionals. Check it out for yourself. Go to orderlymeds.com podcast. That's orderlymeds.com podcast. Taking care of yourself feels great. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

[Congressional Hearing Participants]

What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right back to the Leslie Groff transcript from her meeting with Congress. Mr. Timmons is asking questions. Question. Okay, so let's talk about flights and hotels. No, let's go to hair appointments. As part of your employment, were you allowed to get your hair done at a Fancy Date Spa? Ms. Groff. I did. Every so often. Timmons. Okay, Is it Fakai? Groff. Yes. Timmons. But only two of the seven were. Three of the seven were allowed to get their hair appointments done without his specific approval. There's an email. I can get it for you. Grof. Okay, so why would do you have it? Why would you control whether his assistants got access to hair appointments? Grof. I didn't control one of his assistants. Timmons. There's an email with you and redacted. And you say in your email it says, Jeffrey says that me and two of the seven survivors are authorized to make our own appointments. Is that not strange? Mr. Wickham jumps in. Sir, she wasn't even able to answer your last question. So you just have to let her answer the question. Please. Emmer. At this time, I would like to introduce what will be marked as majority exhibit number eight. Mr. Whitcomb, she is happy to answer your questions. You've got to let her finish. Respectively, Emmer will give You a moment to review the document. Timmin. So the king giveth and the king taketh away. So if you don't do what he says, if you don't act right, if you don't smile, if you don't cooperate with every single one of his requests, then you lose things. You could lose access to your computer, your phone. You could lose access to getting your hair appointments. It's just difficult that all of this was going on and that you were in the middle of it and you didn't see it. See what? The hair appointments. Timmons didn't see the way that he was using all these different levels of control to engage in sex trafficking. And the seven survivors as they entered your office, who were going to be sexually assaulted. BACHNER. So I don't. Timmons cuts him off. You didn't know until he got arrested. GROFF. Everyone was very, very happy. No one ever came to me and showed me any duress, said that they were unhappy. From my perspective, it seemed like everyone was really happy to be there. No one ever said anything to me that they were unhappy or being abused. Question by Timmins. Did you ever suspect that the seven survivors were engaging in sexual activity with Jeffrey Epstein? Groff. No. Timmons, your job requires you to be very perceptive. What percent of these women entered your office, waited for however long, went back for however long, and left looking different than when they came in? Groff I'm sorry about getting the haircut or. Timmins. You would notice if I had wet, if I had wet hair or if I had no hair, because I have no hair. But if you came into my office and went into somebody else's office and came out a half hour later with wet hair, I would go, what the hell just happened? Groff I didn't see anybody with wet hair. This was a professional office, professional area. I didn't see anything inappropriate. People went and got their hair cut and would come back. Timmons. The seven survivors will testify eventually that about one third of the time they would go back, the assault was so bad that they would have to take a shower or clean off. So the fact that you never saw any of them leave with wet hair is somewhat surprising. Groff. I don't recall seeing anyone with wet hair leaving the office, his home. Timmons. All right, let's talk about immigration. Are you aware that Mr. Epstein used immigration as a tool of control for the victims? Ms. Groff.

[John Daly]

No.

[Congressional Hearing Participants]

Timmons did you ever engage in any effort to facilitate citizenship applications for any of the seven survivors? Ms. Groff the only thing that I did was help with travel, and that was per directed. And it seemed to me that anybody that was asked that I was booking for Travel4 wanted this to happen. There was no signs to me that they did not want to be there. No one said anything to me. Mr. Bochner. And just four. And just in all fairness, we don't know the identity of these seven survivors. She may be able to surmise, but we're kind of answering questions without knowing the identity. Timmons. Redacted. Redacted. Redacted. Redacted. Redacted. Redacted, Redacted. I imagine you know who they are. Ms. Groff. I recognize those names. Timmons. If we were to believe you that you had no knowledge of any of this, let's turn to those people that just had to have some in. Dyke and Khan were central to the money and the legal hula hoops it had to go through in order to pull this off. Do you think it's possible that. Would it surprise you to know that without their knowledge, Epstein and Dyke use their Social Security numbers of the seven survivors to create businesses, take out loans and. And create lines of credit in an effort to trap them in a maze of financial insolvency? Ms. Groff, I don't think that anybody did anything wrong without Mr. Epstein's directives. He was very, very controlling. I don't know. I don't know about any of that question. But if he directed you, he directed you to schedule a massage with a 12 year old, you would say no? Grof. I would say no, absolutely. 100% question. Okay, so if he directed Indyke to pull a line of credit and create a business without the knowledge of one of his other alleged assistants, I mean, you have fiduciary obligations to the person you're engaging with. So it would actually be illegal for someone to take out a line of credit or create a business or take out a credit card in someone's name that is not the individual, or is that just a gray area? Are you asking if she's aware if he was doing that? Timmons, Is that something that he should not do? Grof. I think that, yeah, I don't think that. That's nothing that I know about. I'm unaware of any lines of credit or anything like that being taken out. You know, LLCs, whatever you said. Timmons. Can you appreciate all of the different levels of control that he created to put these women into this situation? Grof. I didn't. I knew gets cut off by Timmons. Do you understand now do you understand now, Grof? In hindsight I can step back and I can see how that, how that could have been. Wanted it to be like that. At the time I thought it was things that these cut off by Bauchner. He's asking you now, do you see how he could have done that now, Grof? Yeah, I could see stepping back and seeing how, like you said, monitoring them. But not back then. Not back then. Timmin. So I've talked to three of the victims and every time their name is on an appointment with blank, they said about 98% they were sexually assaulted and raped and they felt trapped. And I guess you are to have us believe that that was completely oblivious to you. I don't have any more questions. Thank you. Now Ms. Tolan is asking questions. And just to turn back to Exhibit 8 for a few more questions, this email is bait stamped EFTA 02248430. The bottom email appears to be an email, right, written by you, Ms. Groff, to Jeffrey Epstein. Did you schedule hair appointments for women associated with Mr. Epstein at Mr. Fakai Salon? Answer yes. Question why were you the one scheduling them? Answer because I was Mr. Epstein's secretary and he would direct me to make appointments. Question and what was the arrangement between Mr. Fakai and Mr. Epstein for his hair appointments? Answer I believe that Mr. Epstein had an account there. So whenever somebody went, the appointment would just be paid with a credit card on the account. Ms. Brignac and who are the women that were receiving haircuts? Ms. Groff? Definitely the traveling assistants. But he could send other friends, I suppose, at times. Question and in this email you state, I want to make sure it's okay with you for the girls to make their own appointments at Focai. Do they have your permission? Why did they need Mr. Epstein's permission to go? Because it was his money that they were using. And Frederick Fakai. Hair appointments are expensive. Question and why did Mr. Epstein. We've heard from numerous people that Mr. Epstein dictated the style, color, everything about the haircut that they'd receive. Do you know why he would do that? Answer I did not know at the time. Since we've been prepping for this testimony, I have learned that was something that he did, but I didn't know at the time. Question and you're aware of any instance or did you any women came to you with any allegations about Mr. Fakai abusing a young woman or a girl? Answer no. Mr. Emmer, we've had another staff member join. Can he please identify himself? For the record, Ryan Giacchetti, chief counsel for Chairman Comer. Nice Italian name.

[John Daly]

Hi Uncle Laser. Here. America's built on fast cars, fast food and even faster women. Photo Casinos built in America. You know what they're fast at? Fast Cash prize redemption. You see, only Moto is us. Own and operate Moto. It's American made. That's who we are and that's who we care about. Play for free at Moto Us. Moto Casinos the Social Casino Board. We're prohibited. No purchase necessary. Visit Moto US for more details. Must be 21/ Moto Casino America Social

[Congressional Hearing Participants]

Casino Question did you ever schedule medical appointments for any women associated with Mr. Epstein? Not that I can recall offhand. Now I'm going to introduce Majority Exhibit 9. This is a chain of emails between you, Ms. Groff and Jeffrey Epstein. The email is dated April 7, 2014 and is batestamped efta01928773. Ms. Tolan, I'll give you a moment to review the email question. So in the email you write at the top, one of the doctors Eva gave us could give a partial exam to redacted this Saturday, April 12. He said he could probably be available from 1 to 4pm and it continues on. Dr. Neil Voros says it's too much to do in one day for an entire exam. He's concerned that she speaks Polish as a first language. How fluent is redacted in English? I keep being asked this. It continues on, but that is probably all we need for the purpose of the question. Do you recall sending this email? Answer I do not recall that email. Question do you know the type of exam you are booking for what appears to be a Polish speaking woman? Answer I believe she's taking some sort of written exam. I don't know, to be a doctor or a nurse. It's an exam that this person wants to take. Question Dr. Neil Voris is a registered clinical psychologist. Do you know if this was for any kind of psychological evaluation? Oh, I don't know. Was Mr. Epstein paying for this test or appointment? I don't recall the email, so it's hard for me to say. Mr. Epstein did pay for a lot of people to, you know, go to school. And do you know if this appointment was for the purpose of placing this woman on any kind of medication? I have no idea. And was scheduling medical appointments or anything of this kind common practice in your role as Mr. Epstein's secretary? Answer Common practice? No Question do you know how frequently you might have scheduled appointments like this for other Women. I don't recall ever. I don't ever recall making this appointment. I don't know. Brignac, you just testified that he paid for things frequently, like school. So is this a unique circumstance? Grof? A unique circumstance? Yeah, I don't recall this. She wants to go take an examination. I didn't know what kind of exam. But he paid for people to go to school. But you never questioned why he'd be paying for this person's medical appointment? Groff. I didn't know it was a medical appointment. Tolan Neil Voris is a registered psychologist who we understand him to be. So it appears that she's taking some kind of psychological evaluation or something of the sort. Groff. I don't know. I didn't know. I don't know what kind of doctor Dr. Neil Voris is. It was someone that. Eva, Jeffrey's friend, Mr. Epstein's friend, Bryniak. Ms. Groff, can you explain what you meant by he does not do this kind of testing in his clinic? Grof. I don't know. I don't know. I don't remember this. So I'm sorry. I wish I could tell you more, but really, I don't know what this is. Was she taking an exam? If your answer is you don't know, then that's your answer. Grof I don't know. I don't know what this is. And this Eva. Are you referring to Eva Dubin? Yes. And do you know her involvement? Did she ever conduct medical evaluations or did she organize medical appointments for women associated with Epstein? Answer. Not that I recall. Question. I think that's all the questions we have on this exhibit. Just generally, did you schedule any other kind of appointment for young women or girls associated with Mr. Epstein? Answer. No. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

[John Daly]

John Daly here. You know what day it is? Neither do I. I live life daily. That's why I only spend on Motocasino. Moto's got daily free bonuses, daily tournaments, new slots added daily. And the best part, guaranteed daily jackpots. You can't beat that. So today's the day you gripping and spending with me on Moto America's social casino. Play for free on Moto Dot Moto

Casino the social casino Prohibited number just necessary. Visit Moto US for more details. Download the Moto Casino app today. Must be 21 Moto Casino America Social Casino.