Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 1-4) (8/8/26)

Summary

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The Epstein Chronicles

Mega Edition: Bill Barr and the Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Parts 1–4)

Date: August 9, 2026
Host: Bobby Capucci

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Episode Overview

This "Mega Edition" dives deep into former Attorney General Bill Barr's congressional deposition regarding his knowledge and handling of the Jeffrey Epstein investigation and subsequent death at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) in New York. Spanning several parts, the episode methodically reviews Barr’s statements to Congress, detailing his role, the investigation into Epstein’s death, and the many irregularities surrounding the case.

Bobby Capucci maintains his signature skeptical tone throughout, frequently interjecting with commentary about the reliability of government sources and calling for genuine transparency.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Barr’s Background and Involvement with the Epstein Case

• Education & Career: Barr details his Ivy League education and path to becoming Attorney General under both Bush Sr. and Trump.

  • “Bar graduated Columbia College in ’71…I worked at CIA. President H.W. Bush appointed me Attorney General from ’91 to ’93…Trump appointed me AG in February of 2019.” (02:00–02:45)

• Knowledge of Epstein & Maxwell: Barr states under oath he never met Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell.

  • “Have you ever met Jeffrey Epstein?”
    “Not to my knowledge.” (03:15)

  • “Have you ever met Ms. Glenn Maxwell?”
    “Not to my knowledge.” (03:45)

2. Awareness and Management of the Investigation

• Barr describes his staff’s process for keeping him apprised of high-profile cases.
• Only matters of national importance or those involving departmental conflict would reach his desk (04:55).
• He became aware of the Southern District’s investigation into Epstein a little before or around the time of Epstein’s July 2019 arrest, but does not recall specifics.

3. Differentiating Participation vs. Facilitation

• Barr distinguishes between “participating in trafficking” (direct involvement like illicit sexual activity) and “facilitating” (enabling the trafficking e.g., recruiting, as with Ghislaine Maxwell).

  • “Participation would be having illicit sex with a minor... Facilitating—helping conscript young girls into Epstein’s network.” (06:40–07:05)

4. Details on Epstein’s Arrest and Maxwell’s Pursuit

• Barr admits vague memory of meetings but recalls general commitment from the Southern District to pursue “accomplices” after Epstein’s death, notably Maxwell.

  • “Her name came up in that context as a prime person … then there was this embarrassing period where they couldn’t locate her.” (09:15–10:05)

5. Review of Security Footage and Death Scene

• Barr describes reviewing security footage after Epstein’s death—though his memory of the exact angles and details was limited.
• He confirms that there were camera blind spots and certain recordings were not logged due to technical or procedural failures.
  • “I do recall that it showed the common area and a portion of the stairway up to Tier L … My recollection was a portion of the stairway was reflected, but not all.” (11:00–12:00)
• Barr claims it's his belief that no one could have accessed Epstein’s cell unseen and is confident in the suicide ruling, citing both physical and testimonial evidence.

  • “For me, the video was the icing on the cake…The shoe itself physically isolated … only two entrance ways, primary entrance [opened] remotely by central control. No way to come in that door except going through central control, having it remotely opened.” (16:00–18:30)

6. Skepticism and Irregularities

• Barr outlines a “perfect storm of screw-ups”: failed cell checks, falsified records, broken cameras, and lack of a required cellmate for Epstein.
• He says these mistakes, though suspicious, appeared non-malicious after review.

  • “[It] wasn’t like people getting together and saying ‘tonight we are not going to perform the watches.’…it was pretty consistent that they failed.” (46:00–47:30)

7. Key Medical Findings and Competing Expert Opinions

• Barr asserts the official cause of death as suicide, referencing the chief medical examiner’s report (kneeling hanging).
  • “I did review the coroner’s report. … The fact that there were, I mean, not only that ruling, but the fact there was no sign of a struggle…no skin or fibers under his fingernails… no contusions, any kind of defensive marks.” (29:00–31:30)
• Dr. Michael Baden, hired by Epstein’s brother, suggested Epstein’s neck fractures were “extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and more consistent with homicide.” Barr dismisses this, stating no department experts agreed.

  • “I remember press reports … Dr. Baden, expert medical witness—not a medical examiner—offered another view. Did anyone agree with him? No.” (31:30–33:00)

8. Response to Conspiracy Theories and Public Suspicions

• Barr explains that, given the “perfect storm” and Epstein’s high profile, he understands public suspicion.
• Host Bobby Capucci repeatedly calls for fuller transparency and expresses distrust in official statements, demanding live testimony from witnesses and expert rebuttal.

9. Investigation Management and Oversight

• Barr says within minutes of Epstein’s death, he directed the Inspector General (IG) to start an investigation.

  • “As soon as I got off the phone with my chief of staff. I asked him to contact the IG immediately.” (39:50)

10. Failures in Suicide Watch and Security Protocols

• Barr found the removal of Epstein from suicide watch concerning, referencing pressure from Epstein’s lawyers and the MCC’s process.

  • “I was wondering who the person was who made the decision to take him off suicide watch…He had already attempted suicide, was high profile, and would be under pressure to identify co-conspirators.” (46:00–47:30)

• There were failures to provide a cellmate, perform regular checks, and keep functioning cameras, all of which are significant breaches of normal protocol.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Perfect Storm” of Failures

  • “It was a perfect storm of screw ups…I can see why people would be suspicious. More than suspicious.” — Bill Barr (47:30)

• Skepticism About the Official Narrative

  • “Here's my big problem, folks. I don't trust any of these people. So them telling me something is not going to cut it. Let's see the evidence.” — Bobby Capucci (34:00)

• On Surveillance Failures and Security

  • “The Bureau, I don’t think, believed it was tampered. They felt it was a non-malicious explanation for it.” — Bill Barr (52:00)

• On Reviewing Evidence for Suicide vs. Homicide

  • “The idea that people would go in there and hang him in that way…without any sign of scuffle, was not plausible.” — Bill Barr (31:15)

• Host’s Closing Thoughts

  • “We got a whole ass rabbit hole still to jump down. But it's always surface level with these people, right? They never want to get to the actual story.” — Bobby Capucci (34:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Barr’s Background & Role: 01:00–03:00
• Awareness of Epstein/Maxwell: 03:15–04:00
• Investigation Oversight Process: 04:55–06:30
• Arrest & Investigation Details: 07:00–10:00
• Epstein’s Death – Security & Timeline: 10:51–19:00
• Cameras, Blind Spots, and Security Failures: 15:40–19:00
• Evidence and Verdicts on Manner of Death: 24:24–34:45
• Dr. Baden’s Contradictory Findings: 31:30–33:00
• Failures in Suicide Watch and Institutional Protocol: 39:48–47:30

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Flow & Tone

• Methodical & Forensic: The episode follows the deposition’s structure, walking through events in detail and focusing on logic and process.
• Skeptical & Demanding Accountability: Bobby Capucci’s interjections underscore distrust in official narratives, pushing for testimony and transparency from authorities and experts.
• Candid & Unfiltered: Notably, the host pulls no punches, voicing the kind of skepticism and frustration common among those following the Epstein case closely.

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Takeaways

1. Barr maintains the official line that Epstein’s death was a suicide, supported by video review (albeit with acknowledged gaps), physical evidence, and lack of signs of struggle.
2. There was a cascade of procedural failures, including broken cameras, missing cellmate, and skipped cell checks—creating fertile ground for suspicion.
3. Host Bobby Capucci and, by extension, the podcast audience remain deeply skeptical of government explanations, emphasizing the need for outside expert scrutiny and public hearings.
4. No evidence (per Barr) ever pointed to homicide, despite alternative findings presented by Dr. Michael Baden and others.
5. Investigation into MCC failures was robust but ultimately absolved staff of malicious intent—errors were deemed incompetence, not conspiracy.

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The episode leaves listeners with the sense that while official accounts are internally consistent, the opacity, coincidental failures, and lack of full public transparency mean the public’s skepticism won’t be allayed any time soon. The story, as Capucci puts it, remains far from settled.

Transcript

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what's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. So we have the Bill Barr transcript from his deposition that he gave to the committee when he sat down for a talk a few weeks ago. So in this episode we're going to begin taking a look at that transcript and at what Bill Barr had to say during this interrogation, if you want to call it that. So obviously Bill Barr is going to be the one answering the questions and we have a lot of redactions here. So if we don't have a name for the person asking the question, I'll say redacted and then I'll ask the question and then obviously the answers are from Bill Darth Barr. Unless of course something changes. And if it does, I'll make sure I let you know as we're going through this. Alright, so we're going to start with the examination and we're gonna bypass them, swearing them in by redacted. So the person asking the questions is redacted. Very briefly, we want to go through your background and the only two experiences that I think are relevant today. Where did you attend undergrad and what year did you graduate? Bar graduated Columbia College in 71. I got my master's from Columbia in 73, went to law school at GW here in Washington at night and graduated in in 1977. Thank you. During that time I worked at CIA. And then President H.W. bush appointed you to be United States attorney general from 91 to 93, is that correct, Barr? Yes, I was in the department at the start of his administration and he ultimately appointed me Attorney General. Question and Then President Trump appointed you Attorney General in February of 2019, and then you left in December of 2020, correct? Right. I was confirmed in February of 2019. Were you acting prior to your confirmation? No. Moving on to the topic at hand, just some preliminary questions. Have you ever met Mr. Epstein? Have I what? Have you ever met Jeffrey Epstein Barr? Not to my knowledge. Question. I'll pause for a minute. Ms. Crockett, do you mind identifying yourself for the record? And now we got Jasmine Crockett asking questions. Yes. Jasmine Crockett, Texas 30. Question. And then have you ever met Ms. Glenn Maxwell? Not to my knowledge. Question in general, is the Attorney General aware of every federal criminal investigation that's happening at any given point? No. Question. What sort of cases would the Attorney General be made aware of? Answer. Well, generally, things would percolate. Generally, people would report into the Deputy Attorney General. Every morning. I would have a staff meeting where the deputy participated and his principal staff and my own staff. And matters that had come that required my attention would come through that system. Sometimes offices would directly communicate with me, especially when there was a conflict. But matters would either come to my attention if there was a disagreement within the department or if it was a matter of national importance. Did you or your staff closely monitor high profile cases within the United States? I think my staff monitored high profile cases and brought things to my attention that they felt I should be aware of. And then for pretty much the remainder of the deposition, will focus on your time as Attorney General in the first Trump administration. Sure. Do you have any conversations about Epstein case while you were Attorney General? By bar. Any conversations? Yeah, just broadly, yes. Do you recall when the first one was? I became at some point, and this was six years ago, but I became aware that the Southern District was. Was conducting an investigation. I think it was a little bit before his arrest, but I can't be sure that it could have been around the time of his arrest. But I was aware that they were conducting an investigation. Now, I don't recall specific discussions surrounding that. I could tell you what my understanding of what they were investigating, but I don't remember particular conversations. It's just my impression of what came up at the time. Can you describe your general understanding of what they were investigating? So my understanding was that they were investigating whether he committed trafficking offenses, particularly focusing on his exploitation of young women, and they were trying to make the case against him. And in that context, they were also looking at whether any individuals were accomplices or complicit in that activity, either as facilitators as you know, they ultimately went after and convicted Ghislaine Maxwell. And I think they were, and I know they were also looking at whether there was evidence to charge anyone with participating in trafficking by having their involvement with the trafficked victims. Question to the best that you can, can you describe the difference between what participating in the trafficking would be and what facilitating that trafficking would be? Answer Having well, the latter. I mean, I'm sorry, participation as would be having illicit sex with a minor. A traffic minor. Question and facilitating or anyone who was trafficking. Yeah. Answer by bar but certainly what the focus was on was illicit sexual activity with a minor. Question and then what would facilitating be of I believe Ms. Maxwell was. And to that Barr cuts off the person asking the question. Answer Helping conscript young girls into Epstein's network of young girls who primarily were involved in giving him massages and engaged in sexual activity with them. Question and then you said you don't correct me if I'm wrong, don't really recall more than the general conversations at that point in time. Answer Right. Question do you recall who those conversations were with or kind of surrounding the arrest of Epstein in 2019? Yeah, it was either before. It could have been before the arrest, but certainly by the time of the arrest I was aware of it and it would have been. It would have been the people who normally attend my meeting. It could have been a conversation with the U.S. attorney, but I don't remember if it was. Do you recall who normally attended those meetings? You might have said earlier, but it would have been the deputy and the deputy's principal associate at, as well as my chief of staff and sometimes additional members of the staff. And it would also include, from time to time, you know, other people, other members of the staff who were directly concerned with the matter. Question do you recall any conversations with the FBI at that point in time, still sticking to surrounding his arrest? No. Question and then you said you might have included the U.S. attorney. Are you referring to the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York and Jeff Berman? Yes. Do you recall any conversations with anyone in the Southern District of Florida that time? I don't recall. Question and then do you recall any conversations with Mr. Alex Acosta at that time? Not about. Not about this case. Not about Epstein. Not about Epstein. Okay. He obviously served in the administration bar. Yes. Question with you. So in other cases. Yes, similar questions, different time frame and different subject for Ms. Maxwell. Do you recall any conversations about Ms. Maxwell or the Maxwell case when you were Attorney General? Yes, I can pinpoint particular discussions I think once he committed suicide, you know, the office I remember being told and agreeing that the office had to go full bore ahead on finding other crimes that may have been committed and including looking for people who are accomplices in some way or complicit in some way. And her name came up in that context obviously as a prime person. Question and don't recall just to avoid the same list of people, but don't recall specific conversations with anybody regarding the case. Answer I may have had some conversations with Berman where he said in the wake of the suicide that he, you know, that the office was very much committed to continuing the case. Getting to the bottom of everything. Question I'm going to and to that she's cut off or he's cut off by bar. Answer I would say she disappeared and there was this embarrassing period where they couldn't locate her. And you know, at some point I became aware that they were prepared to indict her and that they couldn't find her. But aside from that general information, I couldn't recall anything specific about that. I believe they eventually found her in like a cabin in Vermont or something. Answer New Hampshire. Question New Hampshire. Do you recall how they ended up finding her? No, I don't.

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[Narrator/Host]

in the timeline a little bit to Mr. Epstein's death while at MCC in Manhattan. So you previously stated that your personally reviewed the security footage from MCC from August 9th, 2019 into the morning of August 10th. We'll put up with the department has since released just so you can review it and I just want to ask you a first question. Does this look like the security footage that you would have reviewed at the time? No, I can't remember specifically the security footage and what the composition of it was. I do recall that it showed the common area and a portion of the stairway up to Tier L. I think it's Tyrell. Question. Yes, so I'll ask some more specific questions, but this is about 11 hours that the department released this month or so ago. And well. Well, look at it schematically. It's a camera pointed towards the common area of the special Housing Unit at mcc. The stairway on the left goes to a different tier, and then you can see a very little bit of stairway on the right that goes to Tier L. Uhuh. But you do. I really can't compare it because I can't really remember. Yeah. Exactly what I saw. I remember. What I remember about what I saw is that the resolution was good enough that I could see what the guards were up to, the corrections officers were doing. I mean, not crystal clear, but I could tell that they were looking at computers and working on computers and so forth. So I remember that the resolution was pretty good. And it may have been. It could have been an enhanced or enlarged part of this. I just don't remember. And to the best of your recollection, were there any anomalies in the tape that you reviewed, any missing minutes or anything like that? Not that I'm aware of. I was told that it covered the period from the time he was put in his cell to the time he was discovered. I wasn't told of any missing minute and didn't notice any. Question. Do you recall viewing other camera angles, like a camera pointed down to your L or a camera in the stairwell or anything? I do remember other footage, looking at other footage as well, but I think some may have been in the hallways or entrances, things like that. Did the Inspector General end up reviewing Mr. Epstein's death investigating? Yeah. And they found that the camera pointed directly down L block was transmitting in real time, but not recording to dvr. Yeah. Question does that match your recollection? Answer. That matches my recollection. Let me just say that, you know, that video came to me after, but a lot of information started coming to me immediately in the wake of his death. And I was getting a lot of information sort of real time and including from the Bureau. And as I found out things, you know, I started reaching my conclusions and this sort of came later in my process. Question. Okay, answer. It wasn't the first thing I looked at. Question. Yeah, Answer. I think it took some time of working to get whatever they were getting to me. So. Question. I'll try to cover as much as I can, but we'll start with the video redacted. I'm going to go ahead and introduce what will be Exhibit 3, just because I think it'll help in the discussion. Alright, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in. In the description box. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking up where we left off with Bill Barr and his Epstein related deposition. So the exhibit that they show is a map of the special housing unit, the top tier of the special housing unit at MCC with the cell. And it's produced by CBS. Bill.

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[Narrator/Host]

Yeah. Question. And Mr. Epstein's cell is the one highlighted in red. And just while we're looking at this and looking at the camera footage, the camera angle that we're looking at is a little alcove in kind of the center of the map. Mr. O', Callaghan. This is. You're representing that redacted about. Redacted. Yes, I am. Mr. O'. Callaghan. Okay. Redacted. And I can pull the CBS article. Mr. O'. Callaghan. I just want to make sure he's looking at where you're pointing. Redacted. So the camera positioned right there. Mr. O'. Callaghan. See, look at what redacted is doing. Redacted that camera position right here and pointed towards the common area. Mr. O'. Callaghan. So it's up here. Bar. Okay, I'm glad. Yeah. Mr. O'. Callaghan. And that's a sell.

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Right. Mr. O'. Callaghan. Okay. Redacted. All right, I'm going to play 30ish seconds just so we can get our bearings on what the movings of the jail look like. And Mr. O' Callaghan is Bill Barr's lawyer. Question. So just while this is playing, you see what appears to be corrections officers kind of walking around the common area, going back to the desk. And then there are specific points I want to point out. So that corrections officers came from what appears to be a blind spot on the camera towards the right. And that inmate came from what appears to be a blind spot on the camera to the right. We can pause it. I understand. We reviewed 15 seconds of the footage, but based off that review, do you agree that there is a bit of a blind spot on this camera blocked by the stair landing and that cell? Yes. I'm going to shift ahead to the 920 mark. So I will preface this with this. 7:49pm on August 9, 2019, hit play. Video shown. Redacted. So this video shows Mr. Epstein escorted from. Escorted by corrections officers from making a phone call back to his cell in L block. So you can see him kind of go out of the frame and go up those stairs to L block. Mr. O', Callaghan, again. Redacted. You are representing that that's Epstein walking through? Redacted. Yes. And o', Callahan, you can't really tell. Redacted. So is the doj, IG and the FBI the witness meaning bar? I'm not going to challenge it. Redacted. Okay. And that was going to be my next. Is that your recollection of that scene as well, that around 7:49pm Mr. Epstein went to his cell for the evening? Answer. I can't actually say that's my recollection of events that I saw in the video, which is him being taken to the cell that was 7:49 or whatever. Question. And then again, understanding that we watched about 10 seconds of that walk from his phone to his cell. But in addition to the blind spot of the camera kinda off, like to the right, it's also a bit of a blind spot on the staircase up to L Block. Would you agree on this video, you know, only a portion of the stairway all the way is reflected. And my recollection was a portion of the stairway was reflected on the video that you reviewed as well? Yes. Okay. Do you recall reviewing any video that showed the staircase in its entirety? No. Do you recall reviewing any video that showed L Block in its entirety? No. So going back to the diagram and understanding kind of, again, we reviewed all of 30 seconds of this footage, but I am representing that it's the 30 seconds that surround his death or surround him going back to his cell. The blind spot also includes this door on the kind of center of the schematic, which is an entrance into the special housing unit. And just asking, based off your experience and everything that you've reviewed, looking at this, looking at the video, the only video that's publicly available, is it possible for someone to get up to Mr. Epstein's cell while evading that camera? I don't believe so. You don't believe so? No. Question. Even though part of the staircase is blocked and the entire doorway would be blocked? Yes. I do not think it was physically possible for someone else to go up that stairway. Question. And then the question asker is cut off by bar. You. But then he's cut off. Question. At the time you said you believe no one entered L block between the time Answer. Not just because of the cameras, though. Question. Huh? Bar. Yeah, question. So what other evidence did you have to support that statement that no one entered L block between 750ish and. Okay, well, I know we're starting with the video, but for me, the video was the icing on the cake. Okay. Okay. So there was a lot of evidence about, you know, his state of mind and other physical evidence pointing to suicide, and also testimonial and records pointing to this. But one aspect of this is that the shoe itself physically isolated from the rest of the facility and that it only has two entranceways. The primary entranceway has to be open remotely by central control, so no one would have the key for it. And it was my understanding that that would leave a record of it being opened. So there was no way to come in that door except going through central control, having it remotely opened. And the second door, the second question. I'm sorry, just. The primary door is the door in the center of the schematic that appears open in the picture. It's. Is that the primary one? Mr. O', Callaghan, he's saying this one, bar, the one up here. Redacted. Yes, o'. Callahan. Are you pointing to the black rectangular section? Yes, o'. Callahan. He's saying it's that. Question, which one is the primary entrance into the shu? Answer. Well, I don't recognize the schematic, but from my recollection is the primary. The primary exit is over on the right hand side. Question. Okay, answer. And if it's over here, then I would have to see the schematic. But my recollection is that you have to come up an elevator and then you get into a room where you have to get through the control door that can only be open centrally. And then once you get through that, you come through the door that immediately enters onto the shu, and that requires a key. And my understanding was that the key to that was held by the officers inside the shoe, and they would have to come and let the person in. That's my understanding. So I think that it was not physically possible in the first instance, well, in my opinion, for someone to come through there. But otherwise, it was also my judgment that the video corroborated that because, number one, it showed the two officers who were in the shoe, the only ones in the shoe at the time, did not leave their desk, so they. They didn't go to let anyone in. Question. Uh huh. And second, it was my judgment, from what I saw in the camera and what I looked at, I didn't think it was Possible for someone to get up to the tier and open the door without being picked up on camera. So opening the door would also potentially make noise. Oh, clearly it's a big, heavy steel door. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And then you said that in the central command had to open one of the doors and then a key. Yes. Question. Located at the guard desk had to open another set of doors. Right. Question. Did you review the command logs? No, I didn't. Nobody entered. I didn't review them. No. Question. Oh, you didn't review the command logs. Are you aware of the to that the person asking the question is cut off? Answer. I didn't personally review them. I was aware that they had judged that it was not possible for someone to come in. Question. Are you aware if anyone reviewed whether or not an entrance or exit was logged? Answer. I believe the bureau was looking at that intensively. The whole issue of whether this could have been anything other than a suicide. Question. Are you referring to the Bureau of Prisons or the FBI? I'm sorry, the FBI. Question. Thank you. And the IG and they did an almost four year investigation into this. I think the IG did, yeah. The Bureau was much quicker. Question.

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[Narrator/Host]

now, we're going to go back back in time based on the evidence that you reviewed around 6:30am on August 10th. I'm not sure their title, but the individual delivering breakfast to the inmates attempted to deliver breakfast to Mr. Epstein. He did not answer his door. He called the guards and they found the body and began providing medical care. Does it sound correct to you? To the best of your recollection? Yes. And then about an hour later, he was Pronounced dead at a hospital at New York Presbyterian, I believe, in New York. I know he was pronounced dead at the hospital. Yeah. When were you first informed of Mr. Epstein's death? It was Sunday morning. I was in my study at home, and I got a call from my chief of staff saying that Epstein died from an apparent suicide. Do you recall about how close in time it was to the pronouncement of death? I don't recall. It was in the morning, I believe. And it's still your opinion today, that Mr. Epstein died by suicide? Absolutely. Before getting into what kind of the investigation looked like after that, what information was flowing to you? Do you know, to the best of your knowledge, what are the policies and procedures in place that were in place to ensure that Mr. Epstein didn't commit suicide? Well, there had been, as you know, there had been an attempted suicide in July, and based on that, they put him under suicide watch, which is the most intensive form of monitoring. And when he was taken off suicide watch, based on the psychologists at the MCC making the determination that he could be taken off that kind of intensive watch, I found out afterward, you know, his lawyers had been pressing hard for him to be let out of suicide watch, and in any event, he was put on the next level down, which was. I forget exactly the term used for it, but required that he have a cellmate and that he was checked on every 30 minutes. In addition to, you know, the other general security systems in place, Those were the two that applied directly to him that were supposed to prevent this question. And on understanding suicide watch is very intensive, requires a lot of staff power. And on suicide watch, are they provided with clothes that don't tear, the sheets that don't tear? I believe that's the case. And then when you were first provided with a more formal briefing regarding Mr. Epstein's death, I think it came virtually every day. I found out more information. You know, I was obviously covering it very quickly and wanted to rule out anything other than suicide. And so pertinent information was flowing to me pretty consistently. Q. And it was the FBI conducting an investigation, and the Southern District was involved in that. I. Within an hour or minutes of finding out about it, I directed the IG to have people in New York go to the scene and conduct an investigation, start an investigation question. And you've already said that, you know, you reviewed security camera footage. Obviously there was a previous suicide attempt that probably had psychologist notes and things that were available to the FBI and. And BOP to review and the IG to review. Were there any other Things that you reviewed specifically? I would review photographs when people were discussing things that were pertinent. I may have seen. I think I may have been shown logs that were apparently, you know, erroneously filled out by the corrections officers, things like that. The systems were explained to me from time to time. The BOP was also conducting their own investigation. So there was sort of three investigations going on at once. And it was kind of the culmination of all this information that was provided to you that led you to the judgment that it was suicide. Yes. Well, over time, it became clearer and clearer to me that it was undoubtedly suicide. As I say, the video was probably the last thing I looked at or, you know, in reaching that conclusion. Do you recall reviewing any specific documents during that time period, like the coroner's report? I did review the coroner's report. I asked this, but did you review, like, entry and exit logs from the shu? I may have. I saw some records. I can't remember what they are. All right, we're going to wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with Bill Barr and his deposition before Congress. Question do you recall reviewing any specific documents during that time period, like the coroner's report? Answer I did review the coroner's report. Question did you? I asked this, but did you review, like, entry and exit logs for the shoe? Answer I may have. I saw some records. I can't remember what they were. Question. Okay, the chief medical examiner at the time stated after examination that Epstein died by, I believe it was described as kneeling hanging. So not jumping off the top bunk, but using leverage to kind of lean forward. Does that fit your recollection? I remember discussing of a kneeling hanging, but I can't remember what posture he was in at the end and Answer they found him with his buttocks facing the Question, ground. Answer ground. So I'm not sure if he was on his knees at that point. Question. But you hadn't. Do you recall seeing any evidence that he jumped off the bunk or otherwise fell? Answer I think question versus just kind of. And Bar cuts her off. No, I think the evidence was that he hung himself and it was essentially close to the modus operandi the he had used before being put on watch. You know, the same nooses and coming off the top and landing in that case he landed on his knees. Apparently it didn't work. I just have to interject here, which I hate to do when we're doing these kinds of episodes, but, man, the whole entire narrative around the first supposed suicide is bunk. Absolute bs. Question Were you being kept apprised of the autopsy and its results is in sort of real time? No. Question do you recall when bar that was conducted by New York? Question do you recall when you first got briefed on the autopsy? Answer well, I heard about it pretty soon after it came out. Question and at that point it kind of confirmed to you that the medical examiner ruled it a suicide? Answer by bar yes. And the fact that there were, I mean, I think not only that ruling, but the fact that there was no sign of a struggle. I mean, he was a fairly large guy, and the idea that people would go in there and hang him in that way with numerous nooses being tied and so forth without any sign of scuffle was not plausible. Question yeah, I think I remember. I don't remember which investigation it was in, but I remember reading like, no. You know, skin or fibers under his fingernails? There was none. No, like scratch marks, anything? Any? Answer no contusions, any kind of defensive marks? Answer None. Question Is that similar to your bar yes. Question recollection? Bar yes. Question I believe Mr. Epstein's brother hired a medical witness to review the autopsy. Answer Right. Question the examiner report named Dr. Michael Baden. Answer yes, I see him occasionally on TV. I've seen him. He frequently comes into these kinds of situations. I believe he was described as an expert medical witness in high profile cases. So. Huh. Take with that what you will. Yes, but do you recall Dr. Baden being involved at the time? I remember just reading news coverage. Well, he came in after, I believe, after the autopsy, reached his conclusions, and he offered another view of it, and I remember press reports to that effect. Question his view, which is contrary to the medical examiners, and again, I will say that he is an expert medical witness, not a medical examiner. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. In fact, Michael Baden has more experience than anybody that they had on their team at the time, so do with that what you will. He's a medical witness, not a medical examiner. But that Epstein had fractures to his larynx, and I believe it was three fractures to three different fractures to his hyoid bone in his neck, and that was described as extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and more consistent with homicidal strangulation. Do you recall any conversations about Mr. Bodden's report within the department or with the FBI. By bar, I remember conversations about it, commenting on it. Did Anyone agree with Mr. Bodden's finding? Bar no. I mean, no one expressed agreement during any of my conversations. Question no one expressed disagreement to you, did you? Understanding the evidence and what it was, and information was flowing really quickly. Did you ever see any evidence that suggested Mr. Epstein's death was a homicide? Answer no. On the contrary. I think when you look at the accumulation of the evidence, including the testimony of individuals, his state of mind, you know, the whole thing, the process, you know, one of the things that impressed me was that it would have required, it would have required people. It wasn't known until 8 o' clock that morning. I believe that his cellmate was gone and it wasn't even clear during the day whether he'd get a replacement. So there wasn't much time for people to understand that he was going to be by himself. Very, very little time. And this would have required coordination from probably two dozen people maybe within the prison. Okay, full stop. Why was Nicholas Dartaglione in the cell with Jeffrey Epstein the first time around after Nicholas Dartaglione was already found with contraband in his cell while he was facing four homicides. Furthermore, we have no idea who was in that jail cell or in those cells that were next to Jeffrey Epstein in the shoe. Nobody's ever come out and said anything. So could somebody have been planted in there previously to do this? We got a whole ass rabbit hole still to jump down. But it's always surface level with these people, right? They never want to get to the actual story.

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and all these people were in different groups. You know, the people who were repairing the cameras, the people who, you know, were responsible for opening and closing the door, the people who are responsible for putting in a new cellmate, things like that. For all that to be coordinated, it would have required, I think, as I say, maybe two dozen people. Question huh. So kind of. And I'm not. I don't mean to be testifying, but like, in summary, kind of between a state of mind, previous suicide attempt and the process in place, in addition to the coordination it would take to override those processes, all pointed towards a suicide. Answer by Bar Absolutely. Even before you go to the physical possibility of getting into the shoe and getting up in his cell. Question. All right. Bar and the fact that there are eyewitnesses on that very tier, other prisoners, and including two right across the way who saw no one go in that night. Okay, so let's hear from them, bring them in front of Congress. We're just going to take Bill Barr's word for it. You see, here's my big problem, folks. I don't trust any of these people. So them telling me something is not going to cut it. Let's see the evidence. Question and they said they never heard the door open. Answer Right. Question and things like that. To your knowledge, did the FBI ever investigate Epstein's death after a homicide? Answer to my knowledge, no. Question do you know if anyone investigated? Answer I think they investigated to determine whether it was a homicide, but I don't think they ever, you know, got to the point of feeling that this was a homicide. Question they never. The evidence bar cuts her off. I mean, it was a homicide or, I mean, a suicide? Question yeah. Answer yeah. Question the kind of evidence never swung to more probable. Answer no. Question do you recall anyone investigating it as a homicide that you were aware of? Answer no, I don't think anyone got to the point of feeling that it was a murder. Well, that's a problem right there, because any death that happens inside of a jail is considered a homicide. Until an investigation cracks off, they don't know what happened, so they can't rule it out as a homicide. So it's a homicide investigation. Right. Going back to Dr. Baden, just very briefly, I know that you said you recalled, generally you recalled conversations regarding his contrary findings. Do you recall having any conversations about Mr. Epstein's broken larynx and hyoid bones outside of Dr. Baden's findings? I think I heard it discussed within the department. And to the best of your recollection, the discussions were that it was still consistent with suicidal hanging, that they said they believed the medical examiner was correct. And then you already said this, but I want to ask it explicitly. You instructed the IG to open the investigation? Yes, as soon as I got off the phone with my chief of staff. I believe he contacted. I asked him to contact the IG immediately. I know that they are very familiar with Bureau of Prisons and its processes. And I was told that he had people up in New York who. Who could get to the prison right away. Question. And then we've talked about Mr. Epstein's state of mind an awful lot. And you said that you or someone reviewed kind of the psychologist notes from the previous suicide attempt, the reports that are associated with taking an individual off suicide watch. Do you recall any other evidence regarding what you reviewed regarding his state of mind, Mr. Epstein's state of mind? Answer well, you know, I was aware that, you know, he had tried suicide, which I viewed as an attempted suicide. He had done his last will and testament right before. When did you become aware of that one? Sometime during the period where I was absorbing information. I can't pinpoint it, but there was a period of time where things were being learned and I was finding out about them if they were pertinent. And he. His efforts to get BAAL had failed. So he was looking at a period of time of incarceration in that place, which. Which I think for him was very difficult just to point out. Epstein's lawyers tell us something completely different. And I do remember the buzz that was caused that Friday, I believe, by the release of documents by the court that had a lot of salacious material in there about prominent individuals and so forth. And that caused quite a stir. And so I think that my judgment was that this sort of set the stage for. And was. And he made the call to his girlfriend, apparently. I found out early that he. That procedures were not followed and that he was allowed to make an unmonitored call to a woman who I believe in Belarusia and who was his. I understood to be or believed to be his girlfriend at the time. And he made a call to her at that point. So it seemed important for him to make a call to her that evening. So let's bring her in and let's talk to her. Let's talk to Dr. Baden. But no, they won't do it, will they? And so putting these together, I think it was consistent with suicide. Question. And then during answer, he cuts her off just as to. Just as to his state of mind. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to Another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're going to pick up where we left off with with Bill Barr and his deposition before Congress. Question. During his speech shortly thereafter at the Fraternal Order of police conference on August 12, you said that you learned of serious irregularities that were deeply concerning at mcc. Uh huh. Do you recall what the irregularities were? Well one, you know, I was wondering who the person was who made the decision to take him off suicide watch. He had already attempted suicide and for all the reasons I just stated. It was someone that had to be watched and he was high, very high profile and he would be under pressure to identify co conspirators. So I think that was one. The fact that the checks, the 30 minute checks were not performed and I would say that there was nothing apparently unusual about that. This wasn't like people getting together and saying okay, tonight we were not going to perform the watches. Apparently it was pretty consistent that they failed to perform the checks. And thirdly, they didn't place and very importantly that they didn't place another prisoner in his cell. So I was referring to those and you know, all these and the camera not being on that, you know, that's obviously not necessarily directly relevant to it but you know, the same way the others are. But it's still these screw ups happening at the same time. And that was going to be my next question. You also described it as a perfect storm of screw ups. Uh huh. I think the exact quote that you're referencing the same things, the checks not being done, the guards allegedly falsifying the records regarding. Uh huh. Question. The checks, the cameras not working. Also the corrections officers also didn't perform the institutional counts at night. Answer. Right question. Those kinds of things, the perfect storm of screw ups, Is that what you were referring to? Answer. Right. And that became clearer and clearer as things went by. But I started off with a state of mind on this thing. Like you know, this is going to take some explaining. So you know, and I can see why people would be suspicious. More than suspicious.

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question where the IG report came out after your time as Attorney General in June of 2023? Bar yes. Question were you getting updates from the IG or just the FBI? Answer I think my best recollection is that initially I did get some updates, sort of orienting me to some of the big facts and factors. But, you know, that sort of dribbled away. And certainly after I left the department, I wasn't getting anything. But I don't, I can't initially, I got some information and that gradually ended. QUESTION so the kind of steady stream, as much as it can be described that way, was more from internal to the department, FBI, BOP investigations that you are getting information from? BAR yeah, through staff, sometimes through BOP people, through my own staff, who they would talk to sometimes directly. David Bowditch, who was the deputy FBI director, and I had a good relationship and we talked frequently. And even as time went by during the rest of my tenure, when something, some, you know, clickbait type article appeared about something in the Epstein case, I would sometimes call him and say, did you guys look at that? And, you know, so I was continuing to pick up information. Question you just mentioned David Bowditch, deputy director of the FBI at the time it was reported that you instructed him to keep the Deputy AG, Mr. Rosen, informed every three hours. Does that sound accurate? Maybe on the first or second day? Question yeah, it definitely bar cuts her off. I mean, initially, did I say every three hours? That was what was reported. But you know that that's what's reported. ANSWER but wasn't in my book. QUESTION no. ANSWER okay. I told him to keep the deputy's office advised. You know, I think probably every day. I doubt I said every three hours, but if I did say it, that may have been just for the first few days, like we need to know in real time because all these allegations and the Internet was going crazy. QUESTION yeah, we just discussed some of the I'll describe them as kind of security failures at the time, more maybe caused by low staffing, low budget. Whatever the cause was. There were a number of failures that occurred between August 9th and August 10th. We've discussed that. Mr. Epstein attempted suicide on July 23rd, 2019. And you said you were, you did you become aware of that after his death or was it Prior become aware of what? His attempted suicide in July. That's a good question. You know, at some point I obviously became aware of it. It's possible it happened before his suicide. That he was taken off, you're saying? Or that he. No, I heard about his suicide. No, that in July. I mean, suicide attempt. You heard about the suicide attempt? Bar yes. Question Prior to his eventual death? Answer yes. And I knew he was put on I knew he was put on suicide watch. Question I mean to that she's cut off by Bar But I don't remember being told that he was off the watch. I could have been told before his suicide. My best recollection is that after his suicide I was certainly told about the kerfuffle over whether or not he should be taken off watch. Question and that kind of information flowing up to the Attorney General's office. Was it primarily because Mr. Epstein was a very high profile inmate that he attempted suicide? Question huh? Answer yes. Answer well, yes, the Attorney General wouldn't be notified every time an inmate in BOP custody attempts suicide. Not for an attempt. We discussed him being put on suicide watch and kind of what that entailed. And you just mentioned where I was going next that he was removed from watch after 24 hours, which I believe is the minimum amount of time that you're allowed to be on suicide watch. Answer I can't remember exactly how long he was on watch. I was under the impression it was multiple days, but I don't know. Question I'll represent this and I can bring it into the record, but he was on official suicide watch for 24 hours and then stayed in that cell for about a week but was no longer on constant monitoring. And then he was moved back to the shoe. Answer I just can't remember those details. Question okay, Bar I know he was on suicide watch and then he was released from suicide watch. Question and you mentioned and I'll get your thought a kind of kerfuffle around. Bar interrupts her yeah. Question Whether or not to be removed from suicide watch. Can you get into more detail about that? Answer well, what happened and people were filling me in on it on this because it did not cast either BoP or the department in a good light that he was that someone like this would attempt suicide and then not be put on suicide watch. So I was regaled about that. You know, the arguments and the process. Question okay, and you recall, do you recall people advocating for a longer suicide watch for him? Answer I don't recall the details, no. Question and then Answer you know I mean, man, justice would not have been involved in that because, you know, this was a pre trial. MCC is pre trial. And you know, generally the way a pre trial suspect is handled is monitored by the U. S. Attorney's office because they're the ones that have to report to the judge when. When the judge is asking questions about, you know, and so I normally wouldn't have been brought into that. Something of this profile. I wish I had been. Question and then the IG kind of went into detail about going on and taken off suicide watch. Do you remember any internal investigation after his death? Whether about the decision to take him off suicide watch? Answer just the IG's and yeah, just the igs. I don't know about the bureau. I can't remember. And FBI is the bureau in that case, yes. Okay, I'm sorry, There's lots of bureaus. There's the only bureau. And again, all of this is the best of your recollection. So if you don't recall the specifics, that's totally okay. After he was put back in the special housing unit, according to his roommate who was interviewed by the ignorant, he was provided with extra bedding and sheets, a perk that not very many inmates got. Do you recall conversations about that? I don't remember that. Okay, Shifting to the security cameras, which we talked about a little bit, but I want to talk about the circumstances surrounding the cameras a little bit more. There were 11 or so in or around the shoe entrance and exits hallways. And we always discussed the one pointing straight down L block. And then we watch the footage from the one pointing into the common area. There was a DVR failure that resulted in these cameras working in real time but not recording. Does that. Do you recall that? It was my understanding that a number of the cameras were not recording, although they were still streaming live. Question. And the DVR failure was for a while. Had been going on for a while, but was discovered on August 8th. Does that sound. I didn't know that at the time, but subsequently found out. Question and then kind of the process of getting it back on. Answer. Getting it fixed. Bar says question. Getting it fixed took longer than I expected. Yes. Is that right? Answer Yes. I was not aware of this and that it was going on. I was aware shortly after the suicide that the cameras had apparently failed and there was an effort that went on for, I would say more than one day, you know, of the bureau going into with technical experts to try to still capture something and go over the disk and stuff like that. Question. Do you recall the explanation given for the failure of the cameras? Answer no, I can't remember the details of it, but I did monitor the technical people who were working hard on trying to get it. And then, you know, I saw whatever that they had. Question, do you recall seeing any evidence of tampering with the DVR system? The Bureau, I don't think believed it was tampered. They felt it was. There was a non malicious explanation for it. Question and kind of generally in your discussion with the FBI and others investigating this, did the lack of camera recordings have any negative impact on the investigation? You know, I mean, it made the investigation harder, obviously. Yeah. I mean, if the camera down L block had been working, it would have been an easier investigation. Answer yeah, now it was working. And that's Question yes, if it had been recording. Answer it wasn't in I'm not sure, but in my belief is that it was not general knowledge that they were not recording and people would have thought that they were working. Mr. O', Callaghan, so when you spoke about the camera failures in answering Redacted's questions, the failures were the recording bar. That's. Then he's cut off. Question yes, and I apologize. I'm trying to be very specific in that it was not recording to the dvr. They were projecting on the security monitors in real time, just not saving to the dvr. You talk about another one of these series of mistakes is the lack of a roommate that after suicide watch, the psych department said that he needed to have a roommate at all times. Do you recall conversations in aftermath about why there wasn't a roommate assigned to his cell? Yes. What were those conversations? I can't remember the details, but I actually spent a lot of time on this issue and had people walk me through, you know, why it was being released, what's the process? Why did he have to be released then? Who was in charge of that? Why did he get released and went through all that stuff and I went through it in detail and didn't find, to your knowledge, didn't find anything malicious in the timing of this release? No. Question. And you didn't find anything malicious and that the MCC had not assigned Epstein a new roommate? I think that was the judgment of the FBI after a period of time and then that ultimately was the judgment of the IG as well? That's my recollection. Question do you recall what kind of indications were brought to you that it was just a mistake to not assign him a roommate? Answer I can't remember the details of it. The who struck John, but there were a lot of people involved who, you know, I told him this. No, he didn't tell me this. You know, whether this watch officer knew something or whether they didn't know something. And it was sort of, it was intricate. That's all I can remember. Question. Yeah. Answer. But at the end of the day, it appeared to be screw ups. All right, we're going to wrap up right here and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

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