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Bill Barr
What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking up where we left off with Bill Barr and his deposition to Congress. Question all right, and then maybe the last three questions which were already similar questions. Answer okay, that were asked before, but I'm going to rephrase them a little bit. You were asked these a little bit earlier, but are you aware of any information or evidence that suggests that Jeffrey Epstein was was an employee of any foreign intelligence service? Answer no. Question what about Mr. Epstein being an asset or an informant for any foreign intelligence service? Answer as opposed to an employee? Question huh? Answer the question is, did I see such evidence? Question Are you aware of any evidence of that? Answer no. Question Similar question for the U.S. and I believe you answered them. Aware of any information or evidence? Answer oh, evidence meaning stuff that the Southern District has and says this is evidence of that, as opposed to speculation? Question yes. Answer Allegations that you see floating around the press. Question yes. Answer no, I have never seen SDNY evidence. No. Question and I'm going to be obnoxious and ask it any other official channel evidence that suggests that he was a foreign intelligence no. And then you said earlier, and I'll summarize it and you can please correct me if it's an improper summary. I believe that if he was an American asset, as opposed to some businessman who shares some stuff with the government, I would have heard about it from the intelligence agency. That was going to be my short summary here. You testified earlier not aware of any evidence of Mr. Epstein being employed by US intelligence services. And then your assumption is that much like other people with large foreign ties, it would be not uncommon for him to have discussions with the intelligence community. Yeah. To share some information. I mean, it's not uncommon at all for businessmen who are being investigated to tell the prosecutors, gee, you know, I work all the time with US Intelligence. That's not at all unusual. And the answer is, okay, a lot of people do, but, you know, you're still capable of going to jail for committing a crime. Question yeah, and you just touched on this, but were you ever informed by the National Security Division of any potential impact to intelligence gathering or national security regarding the Maxwell or Epstein prosecutions? Answer no, especially not related to Epstein, you know, being prosecuted or a Maxwell. Question. Okay, they go off the record here and then they're back on. Question Mr. Barr, I. I'd like to return to the topic of Jeffrey Epstein's prison death. You mentioned at the outset this morning, if I understood correctly, that you were informed by your chief of staff that Mr. Epstein was dead, is that correct? Yes. And that the Chief of Staff told you in his words that it was an apparent suicide, is that right? I think so. Okay. Apparently words to that effect. Did you have an understanding as to how your chief came to that conclusion on the morning of his death? Answer no. This was somewhat on the fly call to alert me to this. And also it was clear that the circumstances was such that it called for an investigation. And I think as the term may have been used, it was a show and they would have to be looked at. But it was an apparent suicide. Question. And so what to your understanding is interrupts her or him bar or presented itself in a suicide that way, to your understanding, what led them to that conclusion? Common sense. Could you elaborate? Well, you know, think at first blush. Well, a lot went wrong. He was found by himself in a cell, apparently hanging himself and using the same modus operandi he did in his previous attempt. See why that previous attempt is so important and why the Tartaglioni factor has been left out for the most part. Question with respect to OIG's investigation, do you recall the names of the personnel in the OIG's office who were involved? Answer in what? Question in the OIG investigation. Answer no. I called Horowitz directly. Question do you know the names of any other staff who were involved? Answer no. Question. That are working on it. Answer like not off the top of my head and I don't think I knew, maybe knew at the time, but I certainly don't know now. There was somebody, I think up in New York that was close at hand whose name was used. So at the time they had. He did identify some people who would be involved, but I don't know them. Question. You were asked earlier about the FBI's investigation in connection with the death. And just to make sure that we're all on the same page as as to the scope of the investigation, it's my understanding that a principal focus for the FBI was whether Mr. Epstein's death was caused by homicide. Is that fair? Answer I think to figure out this Was real suicide or was, you know, some kind of. Was this a murder, basically? Question. You were asked earlier whether you had spoken with any inmates at mcc and you said you hadn't just revisiting this, but because there was some public reporting or a suggestion that you spoke with efrenstone Reyes following Mr. Epstein's death. Is that name familiar to you? Answer. No. Question. Okay. Answer. I mean, who did he say he was and what did I talk to him about? Question. As I understand. Answer. I mean, this stuff happened six years ago, and it's conceivable, but I don't recall talking to an inmate. It was a former inmate or an inmate, as I understand, an inmate of shoe contemporaneously with Mr. Epstein. Answer. No, I didn't go up to the shoe. Question. This is my understanding from the public reporting at the time, this is August 2019. You pointed to some delays in the investigation because certain witnesses were not cooperative. Do you recall? Answer when? Question. Do you recall that this is August of 2019? Answer yeah. Question. And specifically, a number of them, as you described, required having union representatives and lawyers before you were able to schedule interviews. Before the Southern District was able to schedule interviews. You recall that? Yes. Okay. Was the lack of cooperation that you encountered solely the insistence on union representation, or were there other factors? There may have been other factors. I don't know. My recollection is that the Southern District was explaining to me that. That it was taking time. It was important to get the facts out as quickly as we could, given all the conspiracy theories. Question. According to the IG report, Mr. Epstein was taken by ambulance to the MCC to New York Presbyterian Lower Manhattan Hospital. To your knowledge, were EMT and medical personnel questioned? I don't know. I mean, I don't know Now, I may have known at the time. Question. To your knowledge, were DNA tests conducted along on the bed sheets in Mr. Epstein's cell? I couldn't tell you. We spoke earlier about video footage in the shoe, by the way. I would just say that again. This is six years later. I'm not saying I never knew whether DNA was run. Just sitting here, I can't remember whether that was an aspect that I knew about. I did know or was told that very good FBI agents were on this and were doing a very thorough job. Oh, yeah, the FBI, huh? We can all trust that question. Turning back to the video footage, I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page as to what you looked at. There is the footage that the FBI made publicly available In July this year. Is that the same footage that you personally reviewed? Answer I said that I cannot say whether that was the same because I don't have what I viewed, but what I viewed showed the common area. Question Are you aware of being more than one version of that footage? Answer of that footage? Answer Question Yes. Answer from the same camera? Question yes. Answer I don't know. I think at some point I was told that they were working on enhancing it. Question Enhancing the version. Answer they were. I was interested in seeing the video and they were working on enhancing the video. And the primary video I viewed was one showing the common area and the guards and a portion of the stairway. Did you have any understanding as to what the enhancement involved? Exactly? No. I don't even know whether it was enhanced. I'm just saying I was told that they were working on enhancing it. I'd like to mark exhibit C, a CBS article. It's entitled CBS News Investigation of Jeffrey Epstein Jail Video Reveals New discrepancies. It's dated July 29, 2025. Mr. Barr, I'm going to ask you a couple of aspects of this article, but please take all the time you need to review it. Well, just tell me what the aspects are. Question sure. So I'm looking seven pages in and I apologize. This document is not paginated. There is a subheading that reads, experts question Investigators interpretation of orange shape moving up the stairs. Huh. Question do you see that? Answer yeah. And then the paragraph below it reads, just before 10:40pm an orange shape is seen moving up the stairs leading to Epstein's tear. Do you recall there being an orange shape in the video along the lines of that description? I don't recall focusing on an orange shape going up. Well, wait, I'd have to see the clip. Question ok. Answer to see what it refers to according to this piece. And again, I'll read it into the record. The report says through review and analysis of the shoe video footage, witness statements and BOP records, the OIG determined that approximately at 10:40pm a corrections officer believed to be Noel carried linen or inmate clothing up to ltr, which was the last time NECO approached the only entrance to the shoe tier in which Epstein was housed. I mean, only entrance we know about. What about through the venting system? Is there another way to get in? Look, I'm not trying to be conspiratorial here, but these are questions that have to be asked. Question I recall when I watched the video that I watched what I believe the CEO went up the stairs, but did not go into the tier. Question CBS based on its analysis and again, I'll read the next paragraph here. Video forensic experts who reviewed that footage at the request of CBS News were skeptical about that interpretation and suggested that the shape could be a person dressed in an orange prison jumpsuit climbing the stairs. Connor McCourt, a retired NYPD sergeant and forensic video expert, told CBS News, based on the limited video, it's more likely it's a person in an orange uniform. Would you agree with that observation? No. Question and why not? Answer because when I watched it, I concluded it was the CO that went up at that time and didn't go in. Question and then skip ahead. One, two Answer that was not only my interpretation, it was the OIG's interpretation and the Southern District and the FBI's interpretation of whatever they watched. I'm skipping four pages ahead in the article. Uh huh. Question and the sub reading that reads at 12:05:48am an unidentified individual passes through the shoe Mr. O' Callaghan, over here.
[12:00]
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Bill Barr
Bar yeah, I see it. Question. So just for the record, I'll read the paragraph. The Inspector General's report says only two members entered the unit after midnight. One is a corrections officer identified only as CO3. The other is described as the Morning Watch Operations Lieutenant. The presence of a third unidentified individual seen on the video is not addressed by the Inspector General's report. Were you aware of there being a third unidentified individual in the footage? All I can say is that when I watched it in the movements were explained it correlated to the other evidence and I saw nothing of some strange unto unidentified person lingering around. If there was such a person, there was an explanation for it. Question and would to that they're cut off by bar I haven't. I'd have to see what the Inspector General also says. But there was nothing that raised that question for me. Question and one last question on this article and I'm skipping ahead a couple of pages, one page, I'm sorry to the bottom of the following page under the subheading Were there other cameras recording? Answer yeah. Question and again, I'll just read the first two paragraphs into the record. In addition to the cameras that failed to record other angles of the shoe common area, the Inspector General's report states that there were two additional cameras recording events in the vicinity of the Epstein unit. One covering an elevator bank used to transport inmates and another focused on a nearby guard desk. Neither of those videos has been released, but a screen grab from one was included in the report. So were you aware of those recordings? Answer I was aware that there were other cameras that were recording in the vicinity and I believe that when I reviewed video I saw excerpts from other videos. Questions CBS goes on to conclude Answer that's my best recollection. I'd have to see a screen grab also. I don't know. CBS goes on to conclude While federal officials have dismissed those recordings as unhelpful in documenting what occurred that night, experts told CBS News that those videos could add value to the analysis. They could, for instance, help determine whether the DVR system did in fact reset nightly and consistently lose one minute, as Attorney General Pam Bondi said, or provide evidence to contradict her claim. Do you have a view on that conclusion? No. In light of CBS's conversation or observation, do you think that those additional Answer I mean we had a number of experts, you know, different sets of experts go over this and look at all the evidence together and correlate it. This is all very interesting, but to me it doesn't carry weight. In light of CBS's conclusion, do you think that those additional recordings should be publicly released? I think that's a call for the ag. I think if they conclude it adds value, I'd like to see them all released. Question Nothing further on this exhibit. Alright folks, we're going to wrap up right Here. And in the next episode, dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Bill Barr deposition. Question Mr. Barr, I apologize for not asking this earlier. What was the name of your Chief of staff? Answer, Brian Rabbit. Question. Thank you. At that time. Question. We spoke earlier about the autopsy performed by the office of the Chief Medical examiner for the City of New York. Do you recall any specific staff at the Medical Examiner's office who are involved? Answer no. It's the cities. I think it belongs to the city. Question okay, answer. At the time, I knew the name of the medical examiner, but I couldn't recall that now. Question did you ever see the autopsy report before it was released? Answer no, question. Or I'm sorry, before it was completed? Rather. Answer no Question. Do you have an understanding as to why it hasn't been publicly released? No, I don't know what their practice is. So the medical examiner determined that the death was a suicide. To your knowledge, did the FBI continue to investigate the circumstances surrounding Mr. Epstein's death after that point? Yes. And did it continue to investigate it as a possible homicide? I think they were carrying out the investigation that was initiated as to determine why the federal prisoner was wound up dead in his cell. So to ask it a different way, did the FBI accept the medical examiner's conclusion? It was the medical examiner's evidence. Strong evidence, obviously. And so did the FBI rule out the possibility of a homicide at that point? No. The FBI. My understanding is the FBI continued to rely on its own evidence and conclusions and determinations. It didn't stop just because the medical examiner made that ruling. And that would be true. I think in almost any case, if the FBI is told to go in and conduct an investigation, federal investigation, for the Department of Justice on something, it'll do it. The fact that a state official makes that ruling won't stop him. Okay. I understand that you directed certain changes at BOP following Mr. Epstein's death. Uh huh. Including replacing BOP leadership. Uh huh. And that included Kathy Hawk Sayer. I brought her in. And Tom? Yes. And is the name Timothy Shea familiar to you? Yes. And who is Mr. Shea? Shea was on my staff at the time. Okay. And what was his role among on his portfolio were BOP matters. So to your knowledge, did Mr. Shea have any communication with the medical examiner's office not to my knowledge. I don't recall that. Is there anyone else at the BOP who worked on addressing the operational issues that surrounded Mr. Epstein's death? I'm sure there were. Any names that you can recall. Not that I can recall. You mean remedying the problems that were found? Is that what you're talking about addressing? Well, generally, yeah. The circumstances surrounding the death and the remedial measures that were undertaken afterwards. Those are two different. Two different things. Replies Barr Question yes, so globally. Answer I don't remember the people involved in those efforts. Question okay, there was discussion earlier regarding Jeffrey Epstein's relationship with Donald Trump. Mr. Trump has stated that he and Epstein fell out in the early 2000s. Did you ever have an understanding as to the cause of of their falling out? Answer I mean, what's just been speculated in the press, All I can recall Trump saying to me is that he had a falling out and pushed him out of, or somehow got him out of Mar a Lago. That's what I remember. Question and this came up earlier. It was reported that Attorney General Bondi advised the White House in May of this year that President Trump's name appears in the Epstein files. Do you have an understanding as to why Attorney General Bondi flagged that for the White House? Answer I think that would normally be what an attorney general would do, you know, is to give the President a heads up if something is going to happen like that, the release of documents that have his name in them. And that will be, you know, there would be a lot of speculation about it. Question why is that? Answer I mean, it's completely normal to tell the chief executive that his name is about to be released. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Question A few Questions for you, Mr. Barr, concerning Elaine Maxwell, understanding that you were no longer at the DOJ when charges were brought against Ms. Maxwell. Answer no, I was at the DOJ when the charges he's cut off by the person asking the questions. Question you were at the doj. I'm sorry, Right. You were still at the department. Were the charges that were brought against her supported by the evidence, in your view? Answer I was assured they I mean, I think I was made aware of that evidence, what they intended to prove and that it would support the charge. So at the time I felt that they were. I don't have a different view today. Question and as we spoke about earlier, Ms. Maxwell's conviction made her a sex offender for purposes of federal law, correct?
[21:58]
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[22:26]
Bill Barr
Answer. Huh. Question. She was sentenced following trial to 240 months imprisonment. Two to be followed by five years of supervised release. The court imposed a $750,000 fine. Do you view that as an appropriate sentence? Yes. Do you believe Ms. Maxwell to be a credible witness? Depends on what she's testifying about. Can you repeat that? It would depend on what she's testifying about. And the fact that she was charged with perjury with two counts of perjury. Influence your answer at all? Of course you're aware that in July of this year, Ms. Maxwell was interviewed by Deputy Attorney General Todd baby Billy Blanche. Yes. Okay. Answer. From public reports, it's my understanding that at no point during the DOJ's investigation or during her prosecution did Ms. Maxwell meet with the government to offer information relevant to Epstein's investigation. Is that an accurate understanding? I'd have to go back and see. Nothing springs to mind about her doing that. Do you have an understanding as to why the Deputy Attorney General met with Ms. Maxwell? No. Question. Is it unusual, in your view, for the second highest law enforcement official at DOJ to interview a potential cooperating witness? It doesn't happen every day. Can I take that as a yes answer? Yeah, of course. It's unusual. Question. And would you agree with me that it's typically the line prosecutors handling the case that do the interviews with potential cooperators? Answer. Typically that's in a normal case. This case has features that most cases don't have. Question. Even in an abnormal case, would it be your experience or expectation that in an interview like this, the Deputy Attorney General or would be accompanied by line prosecutors who handled the case? Answer. As I say, it's hard to say there's a particular practice since this doesn't normally happen. Doj. Hold on. Let's back up for a second. It's also my understanding that in a typical case, it's customary for an FBI agent to present for these interviews as well for the purpose of note taking. Is that consistent with your understanding? Usually in the investigation of a case? Yes. I'm not sure what stage this was in and what it was related to. DOJ today does not share Details of who from DOJ was present in the room, if anyone with Mr. Blanche and Ms. Maxwell. Is that unusual in your view? No. Because usually the Justice Department does not share information like that. Question Even in a case like this that's pretty closely in the public eye. Answer well, I'll say this. That's why this is an unusual case, so to say. Does this usually happen? Does this usually happen? The answer is usually no question. Until recently, Ms. Maxwell had been serving her sentence at a federal prison facility in Tallahassee, Florida. Following her interview with Mr. Blanche, she was transferred to a federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas. Are you familiar with the federal prison camp? No question. Do you have an understanding as to why Bop moved Ms. Maxwell to a federal prison camp? No question. Do you have a view as to whether that decision was appropriate? No, because I think the initial regime that used when someone is sent to corrections facility does not necessarily dictate the way they are going to be treated all the way through. And it's not uncommon for there to be lesser and lesser security involved once the BOP has experience with people as a prisoner and they see they don't pose a threat. And you know, I forgot what the word is used, but they're not disruptive prisoners or anything like that. They're relatively easy to manage. There's a process whereby they go to less secure facilities. So, you know, it doesn't strike me as odd she was put in that facility. You also have to remember her initial confinement was quite severe because she was watched 24 7. Question I'd like to ask the court reporter to mark this as Exhibit D, a Washington Post article. It's titled Ghislaine Maxwell's Move to Country Club Prison Smacks a Special Treatment Experts say. And I'm focusing on the fifth paragraph down at the bottom of the first page. It refers to a long standing policy from the Federal Bureau of Prisons which, according to the article, restricts inmates with certain elevated security classifications known as public safety factors from serving in federal prison camps. Sex offenses are among the most severe. Is that consistent with your understanding? Answer, Obviously one of the public safety factors is the severity of the crime. You also look at someone's role and whether they constitute the extent to which they constitute an ongoing threat to the public. Frequently, you know, it may be the fact that it's a sex offense reflects a perversion, a compulsion and so forth will frequently be determinative of that, but not in all cases. The article goes on to note in the next sentence, and this is the top of the second page. Inmates serving sentences of 10 years or more generally aren't eligible for transfer to minimum security facilities. This too would have been applied to Maxwell, who is not due for release until 2037. Is that consistent with your understanding that is what that inmates serving sentences of 10 years or more generally aren't eligible for transfer to federal prison camps? Again, General, you know, to me doesn't you know, I do not think that frequently the only way you can get a prisoner in a facility for a long period of time to cooperate is to offer something that you can deliver. And I don't think it's unusual to put someone in a less severe condition of confinement. And in return for cooperation, usually that's the only way you can get someone who's in for a long term to cooperate. Question. Just one more statement in this article I'd like to direct your attention to if I could, and it's in the following paragraph. The sentence reads, while it's not uncommon for prison officials to allow inmates who cooperate with investigations to move to lower security facilities, it's rare for sex offenders to receive such benefits and they almost never get moved into prison camps like Bryan experts said. Do you agree with that statement? I'd have to see what the situation is. You know, it may be that sex offenders rarely cooperate and frequently the whole picture of the person reflects an ongoing threat to the public. And I don't know what the analysis was here by the Bureau of Prisons. Ms. Maxwell's current attorney has stated publicly that he hopes his client receives clemency from President Trump. In your view, do circumstances exist that would justify a pardon or any other form of clemency for Ms. Maxwell? That's an issue for the President to address. Chairman Comer stated, I'm sorry, Ms. Maxwell's attorney stated in July 29, 2025 letter to Chairman Comer that his client did not receive a fair trial. Do you agree with that assertion? I haven't seen his basis for saying that, so I can't agree with it. In the same letter, her attorney also describes Ms. Maxwell as a convenient scapegoat following Mr. Epstein's death. Do you agree with that characterization? Not to the extent that it just dismisses the idea that she herself was guilty of a serious crime. You know, I mean, it may be that a lot of public outrage at the events then became solely focused on her, but that doesn't excuse or make her less responsible for that conduct. I'm getting close to the end. Just a few more questions. And my next questions pertain to an investigation that this committee undertook in 2019 in connection with the Florida plea deal. And that was during your tenure. Do you recall that investigation? I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about the Florida plea deal back in the early 2000s. Yes. So this committee, the Oversight Committee in 2019, undertook an investigation into the circumstances that surrounding the 2007 plea deal in Florida. Do you recall that? Answer I actually don't recall that. Question okay. ANSWER I'm sure it happened, but I don't recall it. Question I'm just going to mark exhibits. I think we're up to E. So this will be E and F. Yes. These Two letters from 2019 from the committee in connection with this investigation. So I'll turn to Exhibit E first. That's the July letter to Corey Amundsen of opr. Have you ever seen this letter before? Answer it's possible. I have. I'm frequently briefed. I was frequently briefed by the Legislative affairs person as to any developments on the Hill. I don't remember it, though. QUESTION so the letter requested a briefing from OPR on issues relating to the 2007 plea deal. I can represent to you that OPR sent the committee a response confirming that it was conducting an investigation, but declined to provide the requested briefing. Do you have an understanding as to why it declined? I don't recall. As I say, I may very well have been briefed on this letter because I regularly was briefed on developments including letters like this, that were going to be rejected, you know, declined. So I can't specifically say that it was explained. I can remember explanation, but it doesn't surprise me that they would decline it. I think it would be normal. Question and why is that? Because it was an ongoing investigation. The department isn't going to put that stuff out. Question and then I'll turn to Exhibit F and generally that stuff around the plea agreement bar answers wouldn't be normally put out. So it doesn't surprise me that they rejected it. O' Callahan do you have a copy of the department's response to the July 10 letter? It's referenced in the December 20 letter. It's an August 5, 2019 letter from Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd in response to Chairman Cummings. Letter yeah, I was planning to introduce it. Redacted, says Ocalahan. It would just be if you're showing the attorney, the former attorney general, a sequence of letters. Witness you asked me why it was declined. O' Callahan yeah. Witness it would be good to see the letter, but that's okay. Question turning to the December 20 letter which is Exhibit F. Do you recall seeing or receiving that letter? No. Okay. But for the same thing, I mean, letters are coming during the Trump administration. Sure. We got a lot of letters coming in like this. Understood. To your knowledge, did DOJ ever provide documents that the committee requested in this letter? I don't know. Is it the same documents? Oh, Callahan, the document request is. Yeah, that would normally be. I mean, I think any Department of Justice would, would at least initially really decline. Question and why is that? Bar the reasons I stated. Question and I'll represent that DOJ did not in fact provide documents pursuant to this letter. Just a few more questions and then I'm done. Mr. Barr, we've talked about a lot of names throughout the course of the day. Is there anyone else, in your opinion who may have first hand knowledge relating to the Epstein investigation or the Maxwell investigation that this committee should speak with? Well, I mean, I think the people conducting the investigation, I mean main justice did not conduct the investigation. And as I've said, the information was limited, partly because that would be appropriate and partly because it all depended on what the Southern District wished to share. So I was, you know, if you're interested in finding out whether the investigation ever developed information that would establish misconduct by someone other than the two who were charged, I think the starting point would be the people who are involved in or who supervise the investigation and the people who conducted it. So specifically the line attorneys in SDNY and the FBI agents. Answer. Well, I mean, the U.S. attorney Jeff Berman question. Yeah, he supervised the investigation. Anyone else? Well, I mean, usually the department doesn't like line attorneys hauled up before Congress. On the other hand, some of them have appeared to leave. Question I asked you earlier about any communication that you had during your first tenure of the Trump administration with the White House. Just to complete the picture, have you discussed the Epstein investigation with anyone in the current Trump administration? Answer no.
[34:46]
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Bill Barr
Not that I recall. I may have expressed surprise that the thing had taken on the character that it has. And who would you have expressed that to? I don't know, some friend and have you Gets cut off Bar Answers no one in the Department of Justice that I can think of. Question and then the last question so I would put this in the category of conspiracy theory, but there has been a theory to the effect that Democratic politicians, including President Obama, President Biden, Hillary Clinton, so forth, have tried to or planted President Trump's name in the Epstein files or otherwise tried to connect him to Epstein's investigation. Do you have any knowledge to support that theory? Answer I don't know the extent to which his name appears. I mean, I know it's been on flight records that's been public, but I personally have no knowledge of, you know, any false information being fabricated on him or anyone else. Question okay. Answer well, except for witnesses that have fabricated stories. Question Apart from the individuals who I just named, the individuals you're referring to are not the individuals that I just named in my question the Democratic politicians who I just named. Answer Right. Okay. Question no further questions. Thank you very much. Off the record all right, folks, well that's going to do it for the Bill Bar deposition. And of course, once we get the Alexandra Acosta deposition, we'll get that bad boy added to the catalog as well as for this one. Well, that's gonna do it. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box
[36:50]
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Summary6 min read

The Epstein Chronicles – Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 13-14)

Date: May 23, 2026
Host: Bobby Capucci
Episode Focus: Bill Barr's Congressional Deposition on the Epstein Case

Episode Overview

In this “Mega Edition,” host Bobby Capucci presents and analyzes former Attorney General Bill Barr’s deposition before Congress, focusing on Barr’s role and knowledge in the investigation and fallout following Jeffrey Epstein’s death. The episode also covers issues related to the Department of Justice’s handling of Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, theories surrounding their cases, the credibility of government investigations, and the interplay between Epstein's connections and broader conspiracies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Barr on Epstein and Alleged Intelligence Ties

Foreign & Domestic Intelligence Questions (00:30–02:30)
- Barr is repeatedly asked—and denies—any evidence that Epstein was an employee, asset, or informant for either foreign or US intelligence services.
  - “No, I have never seen SDNY evidence. No.” (00:58)
  - Barr clarifies it's not unusual for businessmen to have contact or even share information with intelligence agencies, but this does not make them formal assets.
- Barr reiterates he “would have heard about it” had Epstein been an American asset.

The Morning of Epstein’s Death & Initial Investigation

Notification of Epstein’s Death (03:30)
- Barr was informed by Chief of Staff Brian Rabbit that Epstein was dead in an “apparent suicide.”
  - “It was a show and they would have to be looked at. But it was an apparent suicide.” (04:00)
- Barr did not know how that conclusion was reached (“common sense” based assumption based on circumstances).
Early Investigative Steps (05:00)
- Barr had direct contact with OIG head Michael Horowitz; did not recall names of specific investigators.
  - “I called Horowitz directly.” (05:32)
Scope of FBI Investigation (05:50)
- Declares the FBI’s primary focus was to determine if Epstein’s death was suicide or homicide.

Physical Evidence, Delays, and Conspiracy Theories

Investigative Delays (06:30)
- Barr acknowledges that the need for union representation and lack of cooperation from certain witnesses slowed the investigation.
  - “It was important to get the facts out as quickly as we could, given all the conspiracy theories.” (06:57)
Evidence Handling Uncertainties (07:45)
- Barr unsure about technical details (DNA on bed sheets, EMT interviews).
  - “I couldn’t tell you.” (07:54)
Video Footage Review (08:15–11:30)
- Barr reviewed the surveillance footage of Epstein’s unit, recalling seeing guards but not focusing on specific individuals.
- Notable exchange on a CBS News report suggesting the presence of an “orange shape” possibly an inmate, not a guard.
  - Barr insists it was a corrections officer, echoing Inspector General and FBI findings.
    - "That was not only my interpretation, it was the OIG’s... and FBI’s interpretation...” (10:45)
  - Skepticism remains around details such as unidentified individuals and unreviewed camera angles.

Transparency and Unreleased Evidence

Other Camera Footage (12:33–13:31)
- Barr confirms awareness of other cameras in vicinity of Epstein’s unit but affirms that some footage was not released to public.
- When asked if those should be released: “I think that's a call for the AG. I think if they conclude it adds value, I'd like to see them all released.” (13:30)

Autopsy, FBI, and Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Actions

Medical Examiner & Ongoing Probes (14:00–16:30)
- Barr never saw Epstein’s autopsy report before its release; FBI kept investigating after the “suicide” ruling.
  - “The FBI... didn’t stop just because the medical examiner made that ruling.” (16:00)
BOP Leadership Changes (16:50)
- Brought in new leadership (e.g., Kathy Hawk Sayer, Timothy Shea) post-Epstein death.

Epstein, Trump, and the “Files”

Trump and Epstein’s Relationship (18:00)
- Barr repeats Trump’s claim of having a falling out with Epstein and barring him from Mar-a-Lago.
DOJ Notification Practices (18:45)
- Barr defends Attorney General Bondi’s act of alerting the White House about Trump’s name appearing in the files as “completely normal.”

Ghislaine Maxwell: Prosecution, Sentence, and Prison Transfer

Maxwell Charges & Conviction (19:30–20:30)
- Barr was satisfied charges were supported by evidence and that sentencing (20 years, $750,000 fine) was appropriate.
  - On Maxwell’s credibility: “Depends on what she’s testifying about.” (20:45)
Unusual DOJ Interview (21:30–22:30)
- Barr notes it's “unusual” for the Deputy AG to interview a possible cooperating witness but says “This case has features that most cases don’t have.”
Maxwell’s Transfer to Prison Camp (22:30–25:15)
- Discusses policy of moving inmates with “public safety factors”—not the norm, especially for sex offenders, but not unheard of.
  - “Usually the only way you can get someone who’s in for a long term to cooperate is to put them in a less severe condition...” (24:15)
- Refuses to speculate if Maxwell was given special treatment or if cooperation prompted the move.

Clemency, Fair Trial, and “Scapegoat” Claims

Clemency Questions (25:40)
- On possible clemency for Maxwell: “That’s an issue for the President to address.”
- On the claim Maxwell didn’t receive a fair trial: “I haven’t seen his basis for saying that, so I can’t agree with it.”
- On Maxwell as a scapegoat: “Not to the extent that it just dismisses the idea that she herself was guilty of a serious crime.” (26:35)

Congressional Investigations & Requests for DOJ Files

DOJ Non-Compliance (28:00–32:00)
- Barr does not specifically remember various congressional document requests about the 2007 Florida plea deal but says it would be “normal” for DOJ to withhold documents during ongoing investigations.

Who “Knows” and Final Questions

Key Witnesses and Oversight Suggestions (32:25)
- Barr suggests speaking with line attorneys and SDNY staff, especially then-U.S. Attorney Jeff Berman.
- Denies discussing the case with the Trump administration or having evidence for conspiracy theories about Democrats planting Trump’s name in Epstein files.
  - “I personally have no knowledge of, you know, any false information being fabricated on him or anyone else.” (35:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the commonality of big business and intelligence contacts:
“It’s not uncommon at all for businessmen who are being investigated to tell the prosecutors, gee, you know, I work all the time with US Intelligence. That’s not at all unusual. ... you’re still capable of going to jail for committing a crime.” (01:30)
On the prevailing uncertainty around video evidence:
“When I watched it, I concluded it was the CO that went up at that time and didn’t go in... that was not only my interpretation, it was the OIG’s interpretation and the Southern District and the FBI’s...” (11:00)
On details of the criminal justice process for high-profile sex offenders:
“Usually the only way you can get someone who’s in for a long term to cooperate is to offer something that you can deliver. And I don’t think it’s unusual to put someone in a less severe condition of confinement.” (24:00)
On Maxwell’s role as a scapegoat:
“Not to the extent that it just dismisses the idea that she herself was guilty of a serious crime. ... that doesn’t excuse or make her less responsible for that conduct.” (26:40)
On alleged conspiracy to plant Trump’s name in Epstein files:
“I personally have no knowledge of, you know, any false information being fabricated on him or anyone else.” (35:30)

Important Timestamps

Intelligence service questions: 00:30–02:30
Barr learns of Epstein’s death: 03:30–04:00
On DNA, video, investigative thoroughness: 07:45–11:30
CBS News ‘orange shape’ footage debate: 09:45–11:00
Discussion of Maxwell prosecution/sentence: 19:30–22:00
Prison transfer, cooperation speculation: 22:30–25:15
Scapegoat/fair trial/clemency Q&A: 25:15–26:40
DOJ documents & oversight: 28:00–32:00
Conspiracy theory questions, closing: 35:15–36:35

Episode Tone & Takeaways

The tone is factual, deliberate, and sometimes skeptical, with extended dry legal exchanges. Bobby Capucci provides occasional editorial interjections questioning government narratives and investigative transparency, especially regarding video evidence and the handling of high-profile detainees like Epstein and Maxwell.

The episode, rich in detail, will be valuable for listeners seeking a no-nonsense, document-heavy analysis of the ongoing Epstein saga from the perspective of top legal authorities. It highlights not only Barr’s responses but also the lingering ambiguity and dissatisfaction around official findings, and how big-picture questions of justice, privilege, and transparency still loom large.

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Transcript29 lines

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[00:30]
Bill Barr
What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking up where we left off with Bill Barr and his deposition to Congress. Question all right, and then maybe the last three questions which were already similar questions. Answer okay, that were asked before, but I'm going to rephrase them a little bit. You were asked these a little bit earlier, but are you aware of any information or evidence that suggests that Jeffrey Epstein was was an employee of any foreign intelligence service? Answer no. Question what about Mr. Epstein being an asset or an informant for any foreign intelligence service? Answer as opposed to an employee? Question huh? Answer the question is, did I see such evidence? Question Are you aware of any evidence of that? Answer no. Question Similar question for the U.S. and I believe you answered them. Aware of any information or evidence? Answer oh, evidence meaning stuff that the Southern District has and says this is evidence of that, as opposed to speculation? Question yes. Answer Allegations that you see floating around the press. Question yes. Answer no, I have never seen SDNY evidence. No. Question and I'm going to be obnoxious and ask it any other official channel evidence that suggests that he was a foreign intelligence no. And then you said earlier, and I'll summarize it and you can please correct me if it's an improper summary. I believe that if he was an American asset, as opposed to some businessman who shares some stuff with the government, I would have heard about it from the intelligence agency. That was going to be my short summary here. You testified earlier not aware of any evidence of Mr. Epstein being employed by US intelligence services. And then your assumption is that much like other people with large foreign ties, it would be not uncommon for him to have discussions with the intelligence community. Yeah. To share some information. I mean, it's not uncommon at all for businessmen who are being investigated to tell the prosecutors, gee, you know, I work all the time with US Intelligence. That's not at all unusual. And the answer is, okay, a lot of people do, but, you know, you're still capable of going to jail for committing a crime. Question yeah, and you just touched on this, but were you ever informed by the National Security Division of any potential impact to intelligence gathering or national security regarding the Maxwell or Epstein prosecutions? Answer no, especially not related to Epstein, you know, being prosecuted or a Maxwell. Question. Okay, they go off the record here and then they're back on. Question Mr. Barr, I. I'd like to return to the topic of Jeffrey Epstein's prison death. You mentioned at the outset this morning, if I understood correctly, that you were informed by your chief of staff that Mr. Epstein was dead, is that correct? Yes. And that the Chief of Staff told you in his words that it was an apparent suicide, is that right? I think so. Okay. Apparently words to that effect. Did you have an understanding as to how your chief came to that conclusion on the morning of his death? Answer no. This was somewhat on the fly call to alert me to this. And also it was clear that the circumstances was such that it called for an investigation. And I think as the term may have been used, it was a show and they would have to be looked at. But it was an apparent suicide. Question. And so what to your understanding is interrupts her or him bar or presented itself in a suicide that way, to your understanding, what led them to that conclusion? Common sense. Could you elaborate? Well, you know, think at first blush. Well, a lot went wrong. He was found by himself in a cell, apparently hanging himself and using the same modus operandi he did in his previous attempt. See why that previous attempt is so important and why the Tartaglioni factor has been left out for the most part. Question with respect to OIG's investigation, do you recall the names of the personnel in the OIG's office who were involved? Answer in what? Question in the OIG investigation. Answer no. I called Horowitz directly. Question do you know the names of any other staff who were involved? Answer no. Question. That are working on it. Answer like not off the top of my head and I don't think I knew, maybe knew at the time, but I certainly don't know now. There was somebody, I think up in New York that was close at hand whose name was used. So at the time they had. He did identify some people who would be involved, but I don't know them. Question. You were asked earlier about the FBI's investigation in connection with the death. And just to make sure that we're all on the same page as as to the scope of the investigation, it's my understanding that a principal focus for the FBI was whether Mr. Epstein's death was caused by homicide. Is that fair? Answer I think to figure out this Was real suicide or was, you know, some kind of. Was this a murder, basically? Question. You were asked earlier whether you had spoken with any inmates at mcc and you said you hadn't just revisiting this, but because there was some public reporting or a suggestion that you spoke with efrenstone Reyes following Mr. Epstein's death. Is that name familiar to you? Answer. No. Question. Okay. Answer. I mean, who did he say he was and what did I talk to him about? Question. As I understand. Answer. I mean, this stuff happened six years ago, and it's conceivable, but I don't recall talking to an inmate. It was a former inmate or an inmate, as I understand, an inmate of shoe contemporaneously with Mr. Epstein. Answer. No, I didn't go up to the shoe. Question. This is my understanding from the public reporting at the time, this is August 2019. You pointed to some delays in the investigation because certain witnesses were not cooperative. Do you recall? Answer when? Question. Do you recall that this is August of 2019? Answer yeah. Question. And specifically, a number of them, as you described, required having union representatives and lawyers before you were able to schedule interviews. Before the Southern District was able to schedule interviews. You recall that? Yes. Okay. Was the lack of cooperation that you encountered solely the insistence on union representation, or were there other factors? There may have been other factors. I don't know. My recollection is that the Southern District was explaining to me that. That it was taking time. It was important to get the facts out as quickly as we could, given all the conspiracy theories. Question. According to the IG report, Mr. Epstein was taken by ambulance to the MCC to New York Presbyterian Lower Manhattan Hospital. To your knowledge, were EMT and medical personnel questioned? I don't know. I mean, I don't know Now, I may have known at the time. Question. To your knowledge, were DNA tests conducted along on the bed sheets in Mr. Epstein's cell? I couldn't tell you. We spoke earlier about video footage in the shoe, by the way. I would just say that again. This is six years later. I'm not saying I never knew whether DNA was run. Just sitting here, I can't remember whether that was an aspect that I knew about. I did know or was told that very good FBI agents were on this and were doing a very thorough job. Oh, yeah, the FBI, huh? We can all trust that question. Turning back to the video footage, I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page as to what you looked at. There is the footage that the FBI made publicly available In July this year. Is that the same footage that you personally reviewed? Answer I said that I cannot say whether that was the same because I don't have what I viewed, but what I viewed showed the common area. Question Are you aware of being more than one version of that footage? Answer of that footage? Answer Question Yes. Answer from the same camera? Question yes. Answer I don't know. I think at some point I was told that they were working on enhancing it. Question Enhancing the version. Answer they were. I was interested in seeing the video and they were working on enhancing the video. And the primary video I viewed was one showing the common area and the guards and a portion of the stairway. Did you have any understanding as to what the enhancement involved? Exactly? No. I don't even know whether it was enhanced. I'm just saying I was told that they were working on enhancing it. I'd like to mark exhibit C, a CBS article. It's entitled CBS News Investigation of Jeffrey Epstein Jail Video Reveals New discrepancies. It's dated July 29, 2025. Mr. Barr, I'm going to ask you a couple of aspects of this article, but please take all the time you need to review it. Well, just tell me what the aspects are. Question sure. So I'm looking seven pages in and I apologize. This document is not paginated. There is a subheading that reads, experts question Investigators interpretation of orange shape moving up the stairs. Huh. Question do you see that? Answer yeah. And then the paragraph below it reads, just before 10:40pm an orange shape is seen moving up the stairs leading to Epstein's tear. Do you recall there being an orange shape in the video along the lines of that description? I don't recall focusing on an orange shape going up. Well, wait, I'd have to see the clip. Question ok. Answer to see what it refers to according to this piece. And again, I'll read it into the record. The report says through review and analysis of the shoe video footage, witness statements and BOP records, the OIG determined that approximately at 10:40pm a corrections officer believed to be Noel carried linen or inmate clothing up to ltr, which was the last time NECO approached the only entrance to the shoe tier in which Epstein was housed. I mean, only entrance we know about. What about through the venting system? Is there another way to get in? Look, I'm not trying to be conspiratorial here, but these are questions that have to be asked. Question I recall when I watched the video that I watched what I believe the CEO went up the stairs, but did not go into the tier. Question CBS based on its analysis and again, I'll read the next paragraph here. Video forensic experts who reviewed that footage at the request of CBS News were skeptical about that interpretation and suggested that the shape could be a person dressed in an orange prison jumpsuit climbing the stairs. Connor McCourt, a retired NYPD sergeant and forensic video expert, told CBS News, based on the limited video, it's more likely it's a person in an orange uniform. Would you agree with that observation? No. Question and why not? Answer because when I watched it, I concluded it was the CO that went up at that time and didn't go in. Question and then skip ahead. One, two Answer that was not only my interpretation, it was the OIG's interpretation and the Southern District and the FBI's interpretation of whatever they watched. I'm skipping four pages ahead in the article. Uh huh. Question and the sub reading that reads at 12:05:48am an unidentified individual passes through the shoe Mr. O' Callaghan, over here.
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[13:32]
Bill Barr
Bar yeah, I see it. Question. So just for the record, I'll read the paragraph. The Inspector General's report says only two members entered the unit after midnight. One is a corrections officer identified only as CO3. The other is described as the Morning Watch Operations Lieutenant. The presence of a third unidentified individual seen on the video is not addressed by the Inspector General's report. Were you aware of there being a third unidentified individual in the footage? All I can say is that when I watched it in the movements were explained it correlated to the other evidence and I saw nothing of some strange unto unidentified person lingering around. If there was such a person, there was an explanation for it. Question and would to that they're cut off by bar I haven't. I'd have to see what the Inspector General also says. But there was nothing that raised that question for me. Question and one last question on this article and I'm skipping ahead a couple of pages, one page, I'm sorry to the bottom of the following page under the subheading Were there other cameras recording? Answer yeah. Question and again, I'll just read the first two paragraphs into the record. In addition to the cameras that failed to record other angles of the shoe common area, the Inspector General's report states that there were two additional cameras recording events in the vicinity of the Epstein unit. One covering an elevator bank used to transport inmates and another focused on a nearby guard desk. Neither of those videos has been released, but a screen grab from one was included in the report. So were you aware of those recordings? Answer I was aware that there were other cameras that were recording in the vicinity and I believe that when I reviewed video I saw excerpts from other videos. Questions CBS goes on to conclude Answer that's my best recollection. I'd have to see a screen grab also. I don't know. CBS goes on to conclude While federal officials have dismissed those recordings as unhelpful in documenting what occurred that night, experts told CBS News that those videos could add value to the analysis. They could, for instance, help determine whether the DVR system did in fact reset nightly and consistently lose one minute, as Attorney General Pam Bondi said, or provide evidence to contradict her claim. Do you have a view on that conclusion? No. In light of CBS's conversation or observation, do you think that those additional Answer I mean we had a number of experts, you know, different sets of experts go over this and look at all the evidence together and correlate it. This is all very interesting, but to me it doesn't carry weight. In light of CBS's conclusion, do you think that those additional recordings should be publicly released? I think that's a call for the ag. I think if they conclude it adds value, I'd like to see them all released. Question Nothing further on this exhibit. Alright folks, we're going to wrap up right Here. And in the next episode, dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Bill Barr deposition. Question Mr. Barr, I apologize for not asking this earlier. What was the name of your Chief of staff? Answer, Brian Rabbit. Question. Thank you. At that time. Question. We spoke earlier about the autopsy performed by the office of the Chief Medical examiner for the City of New York. Do you recall any specific staff at the Medical Examiner's office who are involved? Answer no. It's the cities. I think it belongs to the city. Question okay, answer. At the time, I knew the name of the medical examiner, but I couldn't recall that now. Question did you ever see the autopsy report before it was released? Answer no, question. Or I'm sorry, before it was completed? Rather. Answer no Question. Do you have an understanding as to why it hasn't been publicly released? No, I don't know what their practice is. So the medical examiner determined that the death was a suicide. To your knowledge, did the FBI continue to investigate the circumstances surrounding Mr. Epstein's death after that point? Yes. And did it continue to investigate it as a possible homicide? I think they were carrying out the investigation that was initiated as to determine why the federal prisoner was wound up dead in his cell. So to ask it a different way, did the FBI accept the medical examiner's conclusion? It was the medical examiner's evidence. Strong evidence, obviously. And so did the FBI rule out the possibility of a homicide at that point? No. The FBI. My understanding is the FBI continued to rely on its own evidence and conclusions and determinations. It didn't stop just because the medical examiner made that ruling. And that would be true. I think in almost any case, if the FBI is told to go in and conduct an investigation, federal investigation, for the Department of Justice on something, it'll do it. The fact that a state official makes that ruling won't stop him. Okay. I understand that you directed certain changes at BOP following Mr. Epstein's death. Uh huh. Including replacing BOP leadership. Uh huh. And that included Kathy Hawk Sayer. I brought her in. And Tom? Yes. And is the name Timothy Shea familiar to you? Yes. And who is Mr. Shea? Shea was on my staff at the time. Okay. And what was his role among on his portfolio were BOP matters. So to your knowledge, did Mr. Shea have any communication with the medical examiner's office not to my knowledge. I don't recall that. Is there anyone else at the BOP who worked on addressing the operational issues that surrounded Mr. Epstein's death? I'm sure there were. Any names that you can recall. Not that I can recall. You mean remedying the problems that were found? Is that what you're talking about addressing? Well, generally, yeah. The circumstances surrounding the death and the remedial measures that were undertaken afterwards. Those are two different. Two different things. Replies Barr Question yes, so globally. Answer I don't remember the people involved in those efforts. Question okay, there was discussion earlier regarding Jeffrey Epstein's relationship with Donald Trump. Mr. Trump has stated that he and Epstein fell out in the early 2000s. Did you ever have an understanding as to the cause of of their falling out? Answer I mean, what's just been speculated in the press, All I can recall Trump saying to me is that he had a falling out and pushed him out of, or somehow got him out of Mar a Lago. That's what I remember. Question and this came up earlier. It was reported that Attorney General Bondi advised the White House in May of this year that President Trump's name appears in the Epstein files. Do you have an understanding as to why Attorney General Bondi flagged that for the White House? Answer I think that would normally be what an attorney general would do, you know, is to give the President a heads up if something is going to happen like that, the release of documents that have his name in them. And that will be, you know, there would be a lot of speculation about it. Question why is that? Answer I mean, it's completely normal to tell the chief executive that his name is about to be released. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Question A few Questions for you, Mr. Barr, concerning Elaine Maxwell, understanding that you were no longer at the DOJ when charges were brought against Ms. Maxwell. Answer no, I was at the DOJ when the charges he's cut off by the person asking the questions. Question you were at the doj. I'm sorry, Right. You were still at the department. Were the charges that were brought against her supported by the evidence, in your view? Answer I was assured they I mean, I think I was made aware of that evidence, what they intended to prove and that it would support the charge. So at the time I felt that they were. I don't have a different view today. Question and as we spoke about earlier, Ms. Maxwell's conviction made her a sex offender for purposes of federal law, correct?
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[22:26]
Bill Barr
Answer. Huh. Question. She was sentenced following trial to 240 months imprisonment. Two to be followed by five years of supervised release. The court imposed a $750,000 fine. Do you view that as an appropriate sentence? Yes. Do you believe Ms. Maxwell to be a credible witness? Depends on what she's testifying about. Can you repeat that? It would depend on what she's testifying about. And the fact that she was charged with perjury with two counts of perjury. Influence your answer at all? Of course you're aware that in July of this year, Ms. Maxwell was interviewed by Deputy Attorney General Todd baby Billy Blanche. Yes. Okay. Answer. From public reports, it's my understanding that at no point during the DOJ's investigation or during her prosecution did Ms. Maxwell meet with the government to offer information relevant to Epstein's investigation. Is that an accurate understanding? I'd have to go back and see. Nothing springs to mind about her doing that. Do you have an understanding as to why the Deputy Attorney General met with Ms. Maxwell? No. Question. Is it unusual, in your view, for the second highest law enforcement official at DOJ to interview a potential cooperating witness? It doesn't happen every day. Can I take that as a yes answer? Yeah, of course. It's unusual. Question. And would you agree with me that it's typically the line prosecutors handling the case that do the interviews with potential cooperators? Answer. Typically that's in a normal case. This case has features that most cases don't have. Question. Even in an abnormal case, would it be your experience or expectation that in an interview like this, the Deputy Attorney General or would be accompanied by line prosecutors who handled the case? Answer. As I say, it's hard to say there's a particular practice since this doesn't normally happen. Doj. Hold on. Let's back up for a second. It's also my understanding that in a typical case, it's customary for an FBI agent to present for these interviews as well for the purpose of note taking. Is that consistent with your understanding? Usually in the investigation of a case? Yes. I'm not sure what stage this was in and what it was related to. DOJ today does not share Details of who from DOJ was present in the room, if anyone with Mr. Blanche and Ms. Maxwell. Is that unusual in your view? No. Because usually the Justice Department does not share information like that. Question Even in a case like this that's pretty closely in the public eye. Answer well, I'll say this. That's why this is an unusual case, so to say. Does this usually happen? Does this usually happen? The answer is usually no question. Until recently, Ms. Maxwell had been serving her sentence at a federal prison facility in Tallahassee, Florida. Following her interview with Mr. Blanche, she was transferred to a federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas. Are you familiar with the federal prison camp? No question. Do you have an understanding as to why Bop moved Ms. Maxwell to a federal prison camp? No question. Do you have a view as to whether that decision was appropriate? No, because I think the initial regime that used when someone is sent to corrections facility does not necessarily dictate the way they are going to be treated all the way through. And it's not uncommon for there to be lesser and lesser security involved once the BOP has experience with people as a prisoner and they see they don't pose a threat. And you know, I forgot what the word is used, but they're not disruptive prisoners or anything like that. They're relatively easy to manage. There's a process whereby they go to less secure facilities. So, you know, it doesn't strike me as odd she was put in that facility. You also have to remember her initial confinement was quite severe because she was watched 24 7. Question I'd like to ask the court reporter to mark this as Exhibit D, a Washington Post article. It's titled Ghislaine Maxwell's Move to Country Club Prison Smacks a Special Treatment Experts say. And I'm focusing on the fifth paragraph down at the bottom of the first page. It refers to a long standing policy from the Federal Bureau of Prisons which, according to the article, restricts inmates with certain elevated security classifications known as public safety factors from serving in federal prison camps. Sex offenses are among the most severe. Is that consistent with your understanding? Answer, Obviously one of the public safety factors is the severity of the crime. You also look at someone's role and whether they constitute the extent to which they constitute an ongoing threat to the public. Frequently, you know, it may be the fact that it's a sex offense reflects a perversion, a compulsion and so forth will frequently be determinative of that, but not in all cases. The article goes on to note in the next sentence, and this is the top of the second page. Inmates serving sentences of 10 years or more generally aren't eligible for transfer to minimum security facilities. This too would have been applied to Maxwell, who is not due for release until 2037. Is that consistent with your understanding that is what that inmates serving sentences of 10 years or more generally aren't eligible for transfer to federal prison camps? Again, General, you know, to me doesn't you know, I do not think that frequently the only way you can get a prisoner in a facility for a long period of time to cooperate is to offer something that you can deliver. And I don't think it's unusual to put someone in a less severe condition of confinement. And in return for cooperation, usually that's the only way you can get someone who's in for a long term to cooperate. Question. Just one more statement in this article I'd like to direct your attention to if I could, and it's in the following paragraph. The sentence reads, while it's not uncommon for prison officials to allow inmates who cooperate with investigations to move to lower security facilities, it's rare for sex offenders to receive such benefits and they almost never get moved into prison camps like Bryan experts said. Do you agree with that statement? I'd have to see what the situation is. You know, it may be that sex offenders rarely cooperate and frequently the whole picture of the person reflects an ongoing threat to the public. And I don't know what the analysis was here by the Bureau of Prisons. Ms. Maxwell's current attorney has stated publicly that he hopes his client receives clemency from President Trump. In your view, do circumstances exist that would justify a pardon or any other form of clemency for Ms. Maxwell? That's an issue for the President to address. Chairman Comer stated, I'm sorry, Ms. Maxwell's attorney stated in July 29, 2025 letter to Chairman Comer that his client did not receive a fair trial. Do you agree with that assertion? I haven't seen his basis for saying that, so I can't agree with it. In the same letter, her attorney also describes Ms. Maxwell as a convenient scapegoat following Mr. Epstein's death. Do you agree with that characterization? Not to the extent that it just dismisses the idea that she herself was guilty of a serious crime. You know, I mean, it may be that a lot of public outrage at the events then became solely focused on her, but that doesn't excuse or make her less responsible for that conduct. I'm getting close to the end. Just a few more questions. And my next questions pertain to an investigation that this committee undertook in 2019 in connection with the Florida plea deal. And that was during your tenure. Do you recall that investigation? I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about the Florida plea deal back in the early 2000s. Yes. So this committee, the Oversight Committee in 2019, undertook an investigation into the circumstances that surrounding the 2007 plea deal in Florida. Do you recall that? Answer I actually don't recall that. Question okay. ANSWER I'm sure it happened, but I don't recall it. Question I'm just going to mark exhibits. I think we're up to E. So this will be E and F. Yes. These Two letters from 2019 from the committee in connection with this investigation. So I'll turn to Exhibit E first. That's the July letter to Corey Amundsen of opr. Have you ever seen this letter before? Answer it's possible. I have. I'm frequently briefed. I was frequently briefed by the Legislative affairs person as to any developments on the Hill. I don't remember it, though. QUESTION so the letter requested a briefing from OPR on issues relating to the 2007 plea deal. I can represent to you that OPR sent the committee a response confirming that it was conducting an investigation, but declined to provide the requested briefing. Do you have an understanding as to why it declined? I don't recall. As I say, I may very well have been briefed on this letter because I regularly was briefed on developments including letters like this, that were going to be rejected, you know, declined. So I can't specifically say that it was explained. I can remember explanation, but it doesn't surprise me that they would decline it. I think it would be normal. Question and why is that? Because it was an ongoing investigation. The department isn't going to put that stuff out. Question and then I'll turn to Exhibit F and generally that stuff around the plea agreement bar answers wouldn't be normally put out. So it doesn't surprise me that they rejected it. O' Callahan do you have a copy of the department's response to the July 10 letter? It's referenced in the December 20 letter. It's an August 5, 2019 letter from Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd in response to Chairman Cummings. Letter yeah, I was planning to introduce it. Redacted, says Ocalahan. It would just be if you're showing the attorney, the former attorney general, a sequence of letters. Witness you asked me why it was declined. O' Callahan yeah. Witness it would be good to see the letter, but that's okay. Question turning to the December 20 letter which is Exhibit F. Do you recall seeing or receiving that letter? No. Okay. But for the same thing, I mean, letters are coming during the Trump administration. Sure. We got a lot of letters coming in like this. Understood. To your knowledge, did DOJ ever provide documents that the committee requested in this letter? I don't know. Is it the same documents? Oh, Callahan, the document request is. Yeah, that would normally be. I mean, I think any Department of Justice would, would at least initially really decline. Question and why is that? Bar the reasons I stated. Question and I'll represent that DOJ did not in fact provide documents pursuant to this letter. Just a few more questions and then I'm done. Mr. Barr, we've talked about a lot of names throughout the course of the day. Is there anyone else, in your opinion who may have first hand knowledge relating to the Epstein investigation or the Maxwell investigation that this committee should speak with? Well, I mean, I think the people conducting the investigation, I mean main justice did not conduct the investigation. And as I've said, the information was limited, partly because that would be appropriate and partly because it all depended on what the Southern District wished to share. So I was, you know, if you're interested in finding out whether the investigation ever developed information that would establish misconduct by someone other than the two who were charged, I think the starting point would be the people who are involved in or who supervise the investigation and the people who conducted it. So specifically the line attorneys in SDNY and the FBI agents. Answer. Well, I mean, the U.S. attorney Jeff Berman question. Yeah, he supervised the investigation. Anyone else? Well, I mean, usually the department doesn't like line attorneys hauled up before Congress. On the other hand, some of them have appeared to leave. Question I asked you earlier about any communication that you had during your first tenure of the Trump administration with the White House. Just to complete the picture, have you discussed the Epstein investigation with anyone in the current Trump administration? Answer no.
[34:46]
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Bill Barr
Not that I recall. I may have expressed surprise that the thing had taken on the character that it has. And who would you have expressed that to? I don't know, some friend and have you Gets cut off Bar Answers no one in the Department of Justice that I can think of. Question and then the last question so I would put this in the category of conspiracy theory, but there has been a theory to the effect that Democratic politicians, including President Obama, President Biden, Hillary Clinton, so forth, have tried to or planted President Trump's name in the Epstein files or otherwise tried to connect him to Epstein's investigation. Do you have any knowledge to support that theory? Answer I don't know the extent to which his name appears. I mean, I know it's been on flight records that's been public, but I personally have no knowledge of, you know, any false information being fabricated on him or anyone else. Question okay. Answer well, except for witnesses that have fabricated stories. Question Apart from the individuals who I just named, the individuals you're referring to are not the individuals that I just named in my question the Democratic politicians who I just named. Answer Right. Okay. Question no further questions. Thank you very much. Off the record all right, folks, well that's going to do it for the Bill Bar deposition. And of course, once we get the Alexandra Acosta deposition, we'll get that bad boy added to the catalog as well as for this one. Well, that's gonna do it. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box
[36:50]
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Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 13-14) (5/23/26)

Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 13-14) (5/23/26)

The Epstein Chronicles – Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 13-14)

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Barr on Epstein and Alleged Intelligence Ties

The Morning of Epstein’s Death & Initial Investigation

Physical Evidence, Delays, and Conspiracy Theories

Transparency and Unreleased Evidence

Autopsy, FBI, and Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Actions

Epstein, Trump, and the “Files”

Ghislaine Maxwell: Prosecution, Sentence, and Prison Transfer

Clemency, Fair Trial, and “Scapegoat” Claims

Congressional Investigations & Requests for DOJ Files

Who “Knows” and Final Questions

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Important Timestamps

Episode Tone & Takeaways

The Epstein Chronicles – Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 13-14)

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Barr on Epstein and Alleged Intelligence Ties

The Morning of Epstein’s Death & Initial Investigation

Physical Evidence, Delays, and Conspiracy Theories

Transparency and Unreleased Evidence

Autopsy, FBI, and Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Actions

Epstein, Trump, and the “Files”

Ghislaine Maxwell: Prosecution, Sentence, and Prison Transfer

Clemency, Fair Trial, and “Scapegoat” Claims

Congressional Investigations & Requests for DOJ Files

Who “Knows” and Final Questions

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Important Timestamps

Episode Tone & Takeaways