← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 4-6) (5/19/26)
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Bill Barr’s deposition before Congress on Jeffrey Epstein was a masterclass in calculated deflection. While Barr insisted that Epstein’s death was “absolutely” suicide, he conceded that the prison surveillance system had “blind spots”—a detail that...
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Visit your nearby Lowes Foreign what's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're going to pick up where we left off with Bill Barr and his deposition before Congress. Question During a speech shortly thereafter at the Fraternal Order of police conference on August 12, you said that you learned of serious irregularities that were deeply concerning and at mcc Answer Huh Question do you recall what the irregularities were? Answer well one, you know, I was wondering who the person was who made the decision to take him off suicide watch. He had already attempted suicide and for all the reasons I just stated, it was someone that had to be watched and he was high, very high profile and he would be under pressure to identify co conspirators. So I think that was one the fact that the checks, the 30 minute checks were not performed and I would say that there was nothing apparently unusual about that. This wasn't like people getting together and saying okay, tonight we're not going to perform the watches. Apparently it was pretty consistent that they failed to perform the checks and thirdly they didn't place and very importantly that they didn't place another prisoner in his cell. So I was referring to those and you know, all these and the camera not being on that, you know that's obviously not necessarily directly relevant to it, but you know, the same way the others are. But it's still these screw ups happening at the same time. Question and that was going to be my next question. You also described it as a perfect storm of screw ups. Answer huh Question I think the exact quote that you're referencing the same things the checks not being done, the guards allegedly falsifying the records regarding. Answer huh. Question the checks, the camera's not working. Also, the corrections officers also didn't perform the institutional counts at night. Answer Right. Question those kinds of things, the perfect storm of screw ups. Is that what you were referring to? Answer Right. And that became clearer and clearer as things went by. But I started off with a state of mind on this thing, like, you know, this is going to take some explaining. So, you know, and, and I can see why people would be suspicious more than suspicious. Question where the IG report came out after your time as Attorney General in June of 2023? Bar yes. Question were you getting updates from the IG or just the FBI? Answer I think my best recollection is that initially I did get some updates, you know, sort of orienting me to some of the big facts and factors. But, you know, that sort of dribbled away and certainly after I left the department I wasn't getting anything. But I don't, I can't initially I got some information and that gradually ended. Question so the kind of steady stream, as much as it can be described that way, was more from internal to the department, FBI, BOP investigations that you are getting information from? Bar yeah, through staff, sometimes through BOP people, through my own staff who they would talk to sometimes directly. David Bowditch, who was the deputy FBI director, and I had a good relationship and we talked frequently. And even as time went by during the rest of my tenure, when something, some, you know, clickbait type article appeared about something in the Epstein case, I would sometimes call him and say, did you guys look at that? And you know, so I was continuing to pick up information. You just mentioned David Bowditch, deputy director of the FBI at the time it was reported that you instructed him to keep the deputy ag, Mr. Rosen informed every three hours. Does that sound accurate? Answer maybe on the first or second day. Question yeah, it definitely Bar cuts her off. I mean, initially, did I say every three hours? Question that was what was reported, but you know that that's what's reported. Answer but wasn't in my book. Question no. Answer okay, I I told him to keep the deputy's office advised. You know, I think probably every day. I doubt I said every three hours, but if I did say it, that may have been just for the first few days, like we need to know in real time because all these allegations and the Internet was going crazy. Question yeah, we just discussed some of the, I'll describe them as kind of security failures at the Time more maybe caused by low staffing, low budget. Whatever the cause was, there were a number of failures that occurred between August 9th and August 10th. We have discussed that Mr. Epstein attempted suicide on July 23rd, 2019. And you said you were. You. Did you become aware of that after his death or was it prior. Become aware of what? His attempted suicide in July. That's a good question. You know, at some point I obviously became aware of it. I. It's possible it happened before his suicide. That he was taken off, you're saying? Or that he. No, I heard about his suicide. No. That in July. I mean. Suicide attempt. You heard about the suicide attempt? Yes. Prior to his eventual death. Yes. And I knew he was put on. I knew he was put on suicide watch. I mean to that she's cut off by Bar. But I don't remember being told that he was off the watch. I could have been told before his suicide. My best recollection is that after his suicide I was certainly told about the kerfuffle over whether or not he should be taken off watch. Question. And that kind of information flowing up to the Attorney General's office. Was it primarily because Mr. Epstein was a very high profile inmate? Answer. That he attempted suicide? Uh huh. Yes. Well, yes, the Attorney General wouldn't be notified every time an inmate in BOP custody attempts suicide. Not for an attempt. We discussed him being put on suicide watch and kind of what that entailed. And you just mentioned where I was going next that he was removed from watch after 24 hours, which I believe is the minimum amount of of time that you're allowed to be on suicide watch. Answer I can't remember exactly how long he was on watch. I was under the impression it was multiple days, but I don't know. Question I'll represent this and I can bring it into the record, but he was on official suicide watch for 24 hours and then stayed in that cell for about a week but was no longer on constant monitoring and then he was moved back to the shoe. Answer I just can't remember those details. Question okay, Bar, I know he was on suicide watch and then he was released from suicide watch. Question and you mentioned and I'll get your thought a kind of kerfuffle around. Bar interrupts her yeah. Question Whether or not to be removed from suicide watch. Can you get into more detail about that? Answer well, what happened and people were filling me in on it on this because it did not cast either BOP or the department in a good light that he was that someone like this would attempt suicide and then not be put on suicide watch. So I was regaled about that, you know, the arguments and the process. Question. Okay, and you recall, do you recall people advocating for a longer suicide watch for him? Answer. I don't recall the details. No question. And then, you know, I mean, man justice would not have been involved in that because, you know, this was a pretrial. MCC is pretrial. And, you know, generally the way a pretrial suspect is handled is monitored by the U.S. attorney's office because they're the ones that have to report to the judge when the judge is asking questions about, you know, and so I normally wouldn't have been brought into that. Something of this profile. I wish I had been. Question. And then the IG kind of went into detail about going on and taken off suicide watch. Do you remember any internal investigation after his death, whether about the decision to take him off suicide watch? Just the IG's and yeah, just the IG's. I don't know about the Bureau. I can't remember. And FBI is the Bureau in that case, yes. Okay, I'm sorry. There is lots of bureaus. There's the only bureau. And again, all of this is to the best of your recollection. So if you don't recall the specifics, that's totally okay. After he was put back in the special housing unit, according to his roommate who was interviewed by the ig, he was provided with extra bedding and sheets, a perk that not very many inmates got. Do you recall conversations about that? I don't remember that. Ok. Shifting to the security cameras, which we talked about a little bit, but I want to talk about the circumstances surrounding the cameras a little bit more. There were 11 or so in or around the shoe entrance and exits, hallways. And we always discussed the one pointing straight down L block. And then we watched the footage from the one pointing into the common area. There was a DVR failure that resulted in these cameras working in real time but not recording. Does that. Do you recall that? It was my understanding that a number of the cameras were not recording, although they were still streaming live. Question. And the DVR failure was for a while. Had been going on for a while, but was discovered on August 8th. Does that sound. I didn't know that at the time, but subsequently found out. Question. And then kind of the process of getting it back on, getting it fixed. Barr says getting it fixed took longer than I expected. Yes. Is that right? Yes. I was not aware of this and that it was going on. I was aware shortly after the suicide that the cameras had apparently failed and there was an effort that went on for, I would say more than one day, you know, of the bureau going into with technical experts to try to still capture something and go over the disk and stuff like that. Question do you recall the explanation given for the failure of the cameras? Answer no, I can't remember the details of it but I did monitor the technical people who were working hard on trying to get it and then, you know, I saw whatever that they had. Question do you recall seeing any evidence of tampering with the DVR system? Answer the bureau I don't think believed it was tampered. They felt it was. There was a non malicious explanation for it. Question and kind of generally in your discussion with the FBI and others investigating this, did the lack of camera recordings have any negative impact on the investigation? You know, I mean it made the investigation harder, obviously. Yeah. I mean if the camera down L block had been working, it would have been an easier investigation. Yeah. Now it was working and that's yes. If it had been a recording, it wasn't in I'm not sure but in my belief is that it was not general knowledge that they were not recording and people would have thought that they were working. Mr. O' Callaghan, so when you spoke about the camera failures in answering Redacted's questions, the failures were the recording.
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bar that's then he's cut Off. Question. Yes, and I apologize. I'm trying to be very specific in that it was not recording to the dvr. They were projecting on the security monitors in real time, just not saving to the dvr. You talk about another one of these series of mistakes is the lack of a roommate that after suicide watch, the psych department said that he needed to have a roommate at all times. Do you recall conversations in the aftermath about why there wasn't a roommate assigned to his cell? Yes. Question what were those conversations? Answer. I can't remember the details, but I actually spent a lot of time on this issue and had people walk me through, you know, why it was being released, what's the process? Why did he have to be released then? Who was in charge of that? Why did he get released and went through all that stuff and I went through it in detail. And didn't find, to your knowledge, didn't find anything malicious in the timing of this release? No. Question. And you didn't find anything malicious and that the MCC had not assigned Epstein a new roommate? I think that was the judgment of the FBI after a period of time, and then that ultimately was the judgment of the IG as well. That's my recollection. Question. Do you recall what kind of indications were brought to you that it was just a mistake to not assign him a roommate? Answer, I can't remember the details of it, the who struck John, but there were a lot of people involved who, you know, I told him this. No, he didn't tell me this. You know, whether this watch officer knew something or whether they didn't know something. And it was sort of. It was. It was intricate. That's all I can remember. Question. Yeah. Answer. But at the end of the day, it appeared to be screw ups. All right, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking up where we left off with the Bill Barr deposition given before Congress. Question. Do you recall what kind of indications were brought to you that this was just a mistake to not assign him a roommate? Answer by bar I can't remember the details of it, the who struck John, but there were a lot of people involved who, you know, I told him this. No, he didn't tell me this. You know, whether this watch officer knew something or whether they didn't know something and it was sort of, it was intricate. That's all I can remember. Yeah, but at the end of the day it appeared to be screw ups and I think that's as you said, that was the IG's conclusion too, that it was a lot of word of mouth of this guy is getting transferred and confusion regarding if it was just going to trial or permanent transfer. Right. Question that kind of stuff. There were things like that and then there's, you know, different correctional officer shifts and things and weather things that are important are communicated and all that kind of thing. Question in the course of the investigation, did you ever go to the mcc? Answer by Bar no. Question did you ever speak to any of the inmates that were around Mr. Epstein at the time? Answer no. Question did you speak to any of his roommates? Answer no, but I believe they were interviewed and he was told the results. Question I have nine minutes left so I'm going to do the unmonitored phone call and then we'll go off the record for this round. You had mentioned earlier and said that the IG in its review that Mr. Epstein made an unmonitored phone call the evening prior to being brought back to his cell before he was before his death on the 10th. Do you recall being made aware of that after the fact and Answer after a suicide? Question huh Bar Yes. Question and were you briefed regarding what happened with the call? Bar along the way? My recollection is the bureau spent time trying to figure out who was a recipient and trying to track that person down. Question and is it? Answer and you know, eventually the only thing I remember it was someone in Belarusia. I think that's my best recollection. Question but with a New York City area code. Answer I don't remember the details. Question okay, where are or to the best of your knowledge, what are the policies for inmates making phone calls to non attorneys? Answer. You know I did ask the FBI what the call was about, what did people, what did she say and all that kind of thing. So my understanding was that the calls like that had to be monitored and you couldn't make and an unmonitored call unless there was a reason like my lawyer is going to I'm talking to my lawyer, etc. Question and in addition to being monitored by a corrections officer, these calls are usually recorded. Answer yes. Question Is that correct? Answer yes. Question Was this call recorded? Answer no, not that I'm aware of. Question the IG did review and I believe the Southern District of New York eventually Did as well. Where individual 1. The recipient of the call or her attorney gave a proffer to the Southern District of New York. Are you aware of that answer? I can't remember. I remember asking. I think it was Bowditch. What we had discovered about the call question. The proffer described the call of Mr. Epstein saying like there is going to be tough times. I love you. I'm sorry. That kind of those kinds of language. Do you recall hearing that kind of readout of the call? I don't recall specifics, but I thought the call was consistent with saying goodbye to someone but not telling them you're about to commit suicide. Did they ever discover the identity of the recipient? I'm not sure and I couldn't say. By the way, at that point we had already made up his mind as to exactly when he was going to do it. But to me it was consistent with it. I'm sorry, what was your question? Did they ever discover the identity of the recipient of the phone call? I believe they did. That's my best recollection. Do you recall who it was? No. I'll ask just about one person. Do you recall if it was Glenn Maxwell? It was not. It was not her. It was not. No. That's a good spot with can go off the record. Then they go to recess. Now they're back on the record. O. Callahan. We're on the record. We're on the record. O. Callahan. Which is Barr's lawyer. So just before we start with your questions, Attorney General Barr just wanted to clarify two points from the prior testimony. It makes sense to do it now and obviously won't count against your time, if that's okay. Redacted. Yeah, absolutely. O'. Callaghan. Okay. Bar. So despite your best efforts to orient me to this floor plan. O'. Callaghan. He's referring to the schematic Exhibit 3. Bar. I was completely turned around on it and for some reason was discussing it as if the camera was to the lower left instead of where it is was which was to the upper right. And as I said, the main entrance would be the lower right of the camera scene. And so the door that council showed me at the far end of this of the common area is a principal entrance, the primary entrance to the shoe. O'. Callahan. So just the witness is indicating the black rectangular box next to the red portion of Mr. Epstein cell on the schematic bar. The other thing is that I don't have specific recollection of the exact time I found out about being taken off a suicide watch. But to the best of my recollection, it was after his suicide. O'. Callahan. Those are the two points. Redacted. Thank you. Examination begins again by redacted question. Mr. Barr, good morning. I'm going to proceed chronologically and in doing so I'm going to cover some of the topics that my majority colleagues did in a previous round. Not to make you repeat yourself, but just to follow up on some issues and ensure we have a clear record. And I'll start with The Florida investigation, that is the investigation into Mr. Epstein by the U. S. Attorney's office for the Southern District of Florida. When did you become aware of that investigation? Answer with everyone else, according to the papers while it was going on. Question. At the time it was the questions interrupted by Barr. Answer. When there was, when there was a big outburst about a special deal and, and all that kind of stuff. Question. So roughly in the 2007 time frame. Answer. Whenever it became public that there was a plea agreement. Question. And do you recall how you became aware of it? Bar the newspaper question. Newspapers. Just a question about the resolution of that investigation. As I'm sure you're aware, Mr. Epstein entered into a non prosecution agreement with the US Attorney's office in September of 2007. Among other things, the agreement bound the United States not to quote institute any criminal charges against any potential co conspirators of Epstein, unquote. Are you familiar with that agreement, Mr. O'? Callaghan? So hold on. Excuse me. Attorney General Barr was under a subpoena and the scope of the COVID letter was about the investigation by the Department of Justice into Epstein and Maxwell while he was Attorney General. You're asking about information that he was not Attorney General. And so I think it's beyond the scope of what the subpoena called for. Redacted. I don't think I would agree with that scope. And I think that the proceeding here today are focused on the DOJ's investigation concerning Mr. Epstein generally. And the question I'm asking Now goes to Mr. Bar's perspective based on his experience as Attorney General. O Callahan. Which time? Redacted. Which time? Well, experience as Attorney General both times. Just based on your professional perspective, sir, have you seen a provision in a plea agreement that bound the United States not to pursue co conspirators that were unknown at the time the agreement was entered into. I don't recall having any inside information or information that wasn't publicly available about those events. About the investigation in Florida and its ultimate, the ultimate plea agreement, to the best of my recollection I knew what I saw in the papers. I remember at the time having a reaction because there was a hubbub about it. I remember looking or thinking about it and delving a little bit into it. But what happened before I was Attorney General? The second time Question the second time during either of your tenures as Attorney General, have you ever seen a comparable provision that had the same effect again? Answer during the time I was Attorney General, I don't recall seeing a comparable provision. I think the thing that I didn't like about it was that it took the victim's allocution rights and I thought that was pretty aggressive and I thought it was vulnerable. So that's just my own thinking when I saw it. Question. I appreciate that just ask you Ms. Crockett, can I jump in really quickly? Yeah. Ms. Crockett, I'm sorry. I just gotta go back to what was just brought up. And and during your tenure, during either time you were Attorney General, do you recall there ever being a scenario that you authorized that was similar that disallowed the prosecution of co conspirators in this type of plea deal? Bar you know, I can't specifically remember things that were that I approved, but I'm not sure that provision sticks out to me as odd.
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Visit your nearby Lowe's. Crockett. Okay, but you can't recall ever approving anything like that before, right? The witness. Right. Crockett. Thank you. Back to There was discussion during the previous round of chain of communication with DOJ and between Main justice and U.S. attorney's office. I'd like to ask you about communication between DOJ and the White House. And again, this is focused on both of your tenures as Attorney General. How common was it, generally speaking, for you to communicate directly with the President of. About investigations that the DOJ was handling? Bar. Well, it depends what the investigation was about. On Epstein, I only remember two conversations I had with the president. Question. So could you tell us about those two conversations? Answer One was when I heard about the suicide, I called him up and said, you better brace for this. And I told them the words to the effect, and I told him about it and I told them we were going to be investigating it very vigorously. And the second one, I can't say for sure whether it happened before his suicide during, meaning around the time of his arrest, or whether it happened after his suicide during the continued developments there. But the topic of Epstein came up in our conversation. Multiple people were there and sort of the news it was commented on being the news of the day. And the President said something to the effect that he had broken off with Epstein long ago and. And that he had actually pushed them out of Mar A Lago. Okay. And just to clarify, those were both conversations with President Trump? Both involve President Trump? Yeah. Those are the only two conversations I can remember where Epstein came up with the president. Question. And when you say that you told the president who the news of the suicide would affect, what did you mean by that? Answer, who it would affect? Did I say that? I'm sorry, unless I'm misunderstanding your characterization, I didn't mean to say that. Okay. I said I told him that he committed suicide and that he suspected it was apparently suicide. And he had the same reaction I did, which was, how the hell did that happen? He's in federal custody. And the last everyone knew, he was being carefully watched precisely for that reason. And I think I conveyed to him that. That it was appalling and that we were going to investigate it vigorously. And he had the same reaction I did, which is going to certainly generate a lot of conspiracy theories. These are not his exact words, but that's what I remember about the conversation being effectively, maybe words to that effect. Yeah. Question Did President Trump say anything about the conversation? Answer by bar. That's all I can recall. Question. So just to tie this all together, would I be correct in understanding that prior to Mr. Epstein's suicide, you did not communicate directly with President Trump in connection with the Epstein investigation? I said that one conversation I recall could have happened before his suicide, around the time of his arrest. But my best recollection is it happened later. But those are the only two Conversations I can remember having with the President directly about Epstein. Mr. O', Callaghan, about Epstein generally, not the Epstein investigation. Bar Right? Yeah. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with Bill Barr and his deposition. Given the the Congress Question shifting back to Florida's investigation, it's my understanding that you recused yourself during your second tenure as attorney general from DOJ's review of that prosecution and plea agreement. Is that correct? No, I didn't recuse myself. I think in my confirmation hearing I put that I didn't want to cross that bridge because I needed to consult people about the issue and I wasn't sure of the timing of things, and so, you know, when things occurred and so forth. So later on when it became an issue, I had it reviewed and got the advice of the ethics people in the doj, and I did not recuse myself. Question did not recuse yourself? Answer yes. Question and this is the Florida investigation? Answer no, it was the to that he's cut off the Southern District of New York investigation. Answer that's the only thing that I was aware of going on when I was there. Question okay, so to clarify, did you have any involvement at all in the DOJ's review of the Florida investigation that took place during your second tenure? I don't recall playing a role in that review in terms of whether it was proper. I didn't play a role in that review. I think there was discussion when New York was moving forward with the prosecution. People wanted to be careful the that they didn't run afoul of any of the provisions in that agreement. Question and I can be more specific. So it's my understanding that the DOJ's Office of Professional Responsibility undertook an investigation in 2019 into the circumstances surrounding the Florida plea deal. Answer Right. I wasn't hovering over that or involved in that. I learned about their conclusions, you know, from when they concluded, when they reach them. Question after they issued the report. Answer I can't remember exactly when at some point I learned that OPR was saying that it was improper. Question have you ever discussed the Epstein investigation generally with Mr. Acosta? Answer I don't recall discussions of the investigation. I may have around that there was a lot of publicity around the fact that he might be pushed out of the administration. I may have expressed commiseration with him that he was facing that kind of public challenge, but I didn't discuss the investigation. Question. What was your understanding of the reason that he was pushed out of the administration? I don't know. I think he resigned. I think he resigned. So my understanding was he resigned. So this didn't continue. This issue didn't continue to hound the administration. That was my recollection of what happened. And to your understanding, did he resign on his own initiative or was he under pressure from the White House? Answer I don't know. I think it was explained as him stepping down to avoid continued problems, but I don't know what happened behind the scenes. With respect to the report that OPR issued, you mentioned that you took issue with, as I understood it, Mr. Acosta's failure to involve the victims in the process. Answer, well, my recollection, and I haven't looked at this, but my recollection is that part of it ended up not allowing the victims to have their say, which is under federal statute they have the right to do. That's my recollection of the issue. And so I thought that I think it's wrong not to let the victims have their say. And here I also thought it was legal vulnerability, but that was just me as a private citizen saying, well, gee, wow, I'll represent to you. The report also concluded that Mr. Acosta's decision to resolve the federal investigation through the MPA constituted poor judgment, in OPR's words, among other things, by resolving the federal investigation before significant investigative steps were completed. Is that consistent with your understanding right now? I don't have a recollection of that. Mr. Acosta reportedly has stated that he was told that Jeffrey Epstein belongs to intelligence and to leave it alone. Are you aware of Mr. Acosta saying that? No. Other than what's been reported in articles over the years, do you have any knowledge of Mr. Epstein having any ties to any intelligence agency? No question. Or of Mr. Acosta being told, I don't know about any ties. I have no reason to believe he was working for the CIA or any intelligence agency, and I'm dubious about claims like that. Now, many American businessmen who have foreign contacts sometimes will talk to intelligence agencies to provide information to them. And the CIA has a unit that goes around and talks to people who are well connected and asks them questions. So my supposition, when I saw things about him being connected to US Intelligence, maybe like other businessmen, he talks to them, but this is not in my opinion, based on what I saw, I didn't think it was an intelligence operation, and I never received any information that led me to believe that. Question. Do you have any idea why Mr. Acosta would suggest that it was? Answer. I don't know. He did. Whether he did, wasn't that something attributed something to him? Question that's his reported statement. Answer. Okay. Question I'll shift gears now and move on to the Southern District of New York's investigation. And for the sake of brevity, if it's okay with you, I'll refer to Southern District of New York as sdny. Sure. That's how I would refer to it. I understand you mentioned earlier that you a determination was made that you would not recuse yourself from the SDNY investigation. And just to make sure my understanding is clear, the that was based on input from the ethics office at doj. That's my recollection, yeah. Okay. And do you recall the rationale for concluding that your continued involvement was consistent with ethics regulations? Because I didn't really have a connection. I wasn't involved in the first investigation. There has been mention in the press about your father's role as the headmaster of Dalton School in New York. Was that a consideration in the ethics office analysis? Answer. Actually, I don't even think. I don't know whether I was aware of that at the time. Obviously not. It's not pertinent at all. Question. You spoke generally during the previous round about the nature and extent of your involvement in the SDNY investigation. I'd like to just delve into that in a bit more detail if I could. To begin with, could you describe the allocation of responsibility between yourself and US Attorney Berman? Well, the US Attorney. All US Attorneys are responsible for pursuing investigations and making prosecutorial judgments. Question. Yeah, just to clarify, I don't mean generally, operationally within doj. I'm speaking specifically with respect to the Epstein investigation. Barr. Well, this was a case that was within his purview. He had obviously approved or. Or was involved in either its launching or continued under him, and so he was responsible for conducting the investigation and making the initial prosecutorial judgments. Also under the department rules that if he believes there is a basis for investigating someone who is a prominent person or a senior political official or whatever, he is supposed to send an urgent report to my attention. Question what was the extent during the SDNY's investigation of. Of your interaction with FBI agents? Answer during the investigation of it? Question yes, Epstein investigation. Answer I would say agents up in New York, but people at Headquarters. After the suicide, I told the headquarters to make sure that they flooded the zone. That is, they provided the investigative office, which was the New York FBI office, all the resources necessary and made sure that the federal investigation was. Was being done. And Boditch oversaw. He's a deputy in Washington. The actual investigation was carried out by New York agents. Most of it, I think, by New York agents. I didn't have contact with people up in New York. The agents up in New York question and part bar cuts her off. It's possible that when I was being briefed, at some point they would put someone like that on the line to explain something to me. But I didn't seek out contacts with people and the people the FBI made available to me. Question, within the FBI headquarters, apart from Mr. Bowditch, was there anyone else you communicated with directly about the investigation? FBI? Yes. I'm trying to remember who was at the head of Criminal Division. I don't recall anyone other than Bowditch. I think I may have had conversations with Chris Wray about it. Sort of what a mess this thing was. And within the sdny, did you ever communicate directly with any of the line prosecutors? No, not that I recall. And you spoke in the previous round, as I understood, about being briefed by the DAG at the regular meetings that were held at Main Justice. You were briefed by US Attorney Berman as well? You know, I think I probably had conversations with Berman, a general conversation, but I think to the extent they communicated or his people communicated, it would have been more to the deputy's office and then I would have been told about it. When did your conversation with Mr. Berman take place?
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for details, visit your nearby Lowe's bar. You know, I can't say for sure when that was. All I know is that I became aware of the investigation. I. I became aware that there were people that were looking at the issue of whether or not it would be permitted under to what extent there are limitations imposed by Florida plea agreement, things like that. And I remember my best recollection is I had conversations with them after the suicide where he strongly assured me and made it clear that this was a priority of the office and that they would continue pushing ahead. Question and did you ever discuss with Mr. Berman and any of the conversations you had with President Trump? No, not that I can recall. Question and again, in terms of the investigative process, were you involved at all in the decision surrounding what charges to bring before the grand jury against Mr. Epstein? No question. Did you review the indictment? I can't recall reviewing the indictment. I may have been shown it. Question Were you to that he cuts her off, but I don't recall it. Were you briefed regarding the specific charges that SDNY intended to bring? I think I was told what they were. I don't recall how deep the conversation was. Was there ever any disagreement between you and SDNY over who to charge or what charges to bring? I don't remember one. You mean the first time around? The initial indictment against Epstein in July o'? Callaghan? Maybe a time frame would help the witness. July o', Callaghan, 2019. Are we talking 2019 redacted? Yes. Witness okay. Question to your knowledge, did anyone else at Main justice disagree with the charges that SDNY intended to bring? I don't recall. Any disagreement. In the two conversations you had with President Trump, did the president express any views on the investigation? Not that I can recall. No question. Did he ever give you any instruction with respect to it? No. Question. Or express any preference? No. Question with respect to the investigation? No. To your knowledge, did anyone else at the DOJ discuss the SDNY investigation or with anyone in the White House? Answer not to my knowledge. Question the FBI's investigation, did that continue post indictment? Answer the FBI's investigation of the suicide? Question the FBI's investigation into Mr. Epstein's crimes? Bar My understanding is that the investigation was going forward because they were at the stage looking for people who were complicit in the trafficking, either by facilitating it or. Or by essentially exploiting the victims. Question and do you know how long the FBI's investigation continued? Answer I think it continued throughout my tenure. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the Description box.
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