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Podcast Host / Epstein Chronicles Narrator (14:32)

A real paragon of virtue, huh? But even liars tell the truth sometimes, and I have to agree. I can't believe I'm saying that with Glenn Maxwell when she says she doesn't think that he killed himself. I don't think he killed himself either. Not willingly. Now, maybe he did so because he was ordered to do it. You know, Tartaglioni sending the message and then Epstein killing himself and finishing the job. But I don't think he did it on his own, not without some motivation. And that's because if you talk to everybody around him, all of his family, his friends, his lawyers, his even the psychologists, there were no signs that the dude was suicidal. Epstein's brother Mark told 60 Minutes in 2020 that in his view, the evidence he has seen to date points more to murder than suicide. Five years later, he still questions the investigation. This was never properly investigated as a proper homicide. It was never investigated, Mark Epstein told CBS News recently, nothing about the CBS News review into the investigation of Epstein's death suggests foul play. Oh, yeah. But the review found that the federal probe did not follow typical investigative procedures into the suspicious death. Yeah, so we'll just bumble our way through it and then we'll use that as our cover. They think you're stupid. That's what this is all about. They truly think you're stupid. Don't fall for it. The reason they had this shoddy ass investigation is so that later on down the road they can say, oh, look, mistakes were made, there was some serious errors, and our personnel wasn't trained correctly to deal with it. Meanwhile, nobody's been trained up. Everything's still the same. So when it happens again, it'll be the same, right? Oh, wait, it's not going to happen again because this kind of thing very rarely happens. And you can go and look at MCC and look at the people who have died there. And it's not like people were killing themselves on a regular basis. So the whole entire narrative is stunk from the jump and it stinks even more now. And the more they double down on this narrative, the more suspicious it looks. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up episode one right here. And in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome back to the program. In this episode, we're picking up where we left off, talking about Jeffrey Epstein's death via that CBS article. Once again, this article was authored by Daniel Rootnick, Graham Cates and Kara TABACHNIK. EVIDENCE PHOTOGRAPHY 101. Epstein's body was discovered at 6:30am on August 10, 2019, by Corrections Officer Michael Thomas. When he arrived at his cell to deliver breakfast, Thomas said he found the accused felon in a near seated position, suspended from the top of the bunk by a homemade noose, with his legs straight out and his buttocks approximately one inch to one and a half inches off the floor, according to the Inspector General's report. Internal Corrections Department memos obtained exclusively by CBS News described them as cold with no palpable pulses. And remember, Michael Thomas was one of the guys that was in charge of maintaining Jeffrey Epstein's supervision. But instead, he was busy screwing around on the computer, sleeping, reading the Internet, you name it. And what happened to him? That's right, Nothing. The first FBI agents arrived at the cell more than seven hours later at 1:35pm According to the 2023 report. But when they arrived, photos show that they found a disorganized rifle through clutter. Crucially, Epstein's lifeless body had already been removed from the cell, eliminating a critical source of information investigators would need to determine how and when he died. Forensic pathologist Michael Baden said. Now, why would they do that? Why would you remove this body? Why wouldn't you call and get guidance right away from the FBI or Bureau of Prisons, whatever? We're not talking about some nobody here. And don't get that twisted. I don't mean anybody deserves that kind of treatment. But I'm talking about the scope of the kind of inmate we're talking about here. This is a man that is a high profile inmate, a man that might have information on other people. Do you really think this is the proper protocol to follow? The fact that he was moved diminishes the ability to determine how long he was dead before he was found. Baden said. Emergency medical technicians wrote in their reports on the incident, which was obtained by CBS News, that the staff they interacted with could not say when Epstein was last seen alive or describe how he was found in the jail cell. Other to say, we found him on the ground, no pictures taken, nothing. You would think you'd come in there with body cameras, everything, right? Let's make sure we memorialize the scene and make sure everything's on the up and up. There's gonna be questions but no. And we're supposed to just suck this down like the good little rubes we are? Well, I'm telling you right now that I don't buy it, and I'm not going to buy it until you give me some definitive proof. Because everything about this investigation, hell, everything about the investigation screams cover up. Inside the cell, piles of linens had been strewn about. Mattresses were squeezed into a corner on the floor near his bunk bed. And Epstein's personal items were rearranged or moved, photos from the scene show. Experts who reviewed photos from the scene for CBS News said there were also inconsistencies between the investigators, official reports and what the images show. Well, why would they give us the real story? There's nothing that's going to challenge them, right? Not the doj, not the BOP and Epstein's family. Nobody's gonna listen to what Mark Epstein has to say. But I'll tell you this much right now. Out of all the people that we heard from, all the people involved, I think that Michael Bodden is the most respected as far as professionally. I mean, I remember as a kid watching that show On HBO with Michael Bodden. I forget the name of it now. Some kind of, you know, criminal coroner tapes or whatever the it was called. But it was fascinating as hell back then. And this is a guy that's been involved in how many autopsies? So I'm going to defer to Michael Boden and what he has to say. And if you want to believe what the state of New York and the federal government has to say instead, then that's completely fine. Just know that the evidence doesn't line up with. With the narrative that you're being pitched. In those photographs, it was obvious that things were moved around, said former New York Police Department detective Herman Weisberg, who is now managing director of Sage Intelligence. It definitely appeared to me that the scene was, for lack of a better term, staged a bit. Yeah. Yes, it was. They did that on purpose. They wanted the COVID And that cover is. Ah, shucks. We're just a bunch of ignorant morons who don't know how to do our job. And how do you challenge that? Very difficult. Right? You got yourself a whole ass baked in alibi right there. We're just bad at our job. And while I don't disagree that most of these people probably were or are bad at their jobs, I think that the coincidences that piled up here are a lot more than just coincidences. One coincidence, Fine. The guys fell asleep. If that was just it, I get it. People have rough nights the day before they're out partying, whatever it might be. But all of this stuff to happen at the same exact time in the same exact place to the same exact inmate? Come on, man. Epstein's medications, a special mask for treating sleep apnea, and at least one piece of fabric tied into a noose appeared in different places over the course of 90 minutes when a photographer from the medical examiner's office was documenting the scene. And that's another reason why I just don't believe what they're pitching us. There has been a lot of tomfoolery, if you will, when it comes to this crime scene investigation. And then after that, we start learning about stage photos, we start learning about the questions that were even being poised by the coroner himself. So there's a lot going on here, and they just want to file it all under coincidence, and it's obviously not true. Weisberg and other experts emphasize that regardless of whether Epstein's death was a suicide, the cell should have been treated as a crime scene using standard investigatory practices. And this is what I was saying earlier. I have friends that are Prison guards. And they told me straight up that everything that happened here was against protocol. Now, they didn't work at mcc, but they have worked in federal lockups. And according to them, none of this was on the up and up. Now again, that doesn't mean that they're saying that it was some kind of, you know, hit job or whatever they're talking about from the investigative portion of it, none of it adds up. So when you have all these things that converge at once, what are we supposed to think? It almost appears to me that whoever was investigating this just took it at face value that it was a suicide with no foul play whatsoever, suspected. Weisberg said. But in a situation as high profile as this, I would always as an investigator consider that there might be foul play. Yeah, you don't know what's going on, especially if the cameras are broken. Nobody was checking on him. Guards were negligent in their duty. You're just gonna go with suicide right off the bat and be like, hey, that's what it is. No need to do an investigation here. We already know, bitch, you don't know nothing. And that's becoming very apparent as the day slip by. While some experts questioned federal investigators treatment of the scene, forensic pathologist Judy Melanick, who used to work at the New York City medical examiner's office, said her former employer appears to have handled the case by the book. Oh, of course. Go ahead and trot out the mouthpiece that used to work in the office. I'm just going to tell you right off the bat, I don't believe a word that Judy Melan has to say. It's just people doing what they normally do for any other case. Melanic said. The majority of cases, if you weren't such a high profile decedent, the scrutiny would not apply. This is how they treat every other jail death of somebody who is not high profile. That is incorrect and a lie. Just another person trotted out by the powers that be to try and tell you some and use their official title or former official title as some sort of justification for the they're saying, well, guess what, I don't believe you. How about that? Judy Melanic? The sequence of evidence photos starts with a picture of the stairs leading up to Epstein's cell block, Tier L. Underlying data from the photo shows it was taken at 9:34am three hours after Epstein's body was found and four hours before the federal investigators arrived. Why would it take them four hours to arrive? You mean to tell me there's not an FBI field office close to MCC that could dispatch some officers right away. What exactly is it that they were doing? Or rather, should I say, what were they giving the staff at the jail time to do? Time went by even as the nation's top law enforcement officer sought a rapid investigation. I was obviously covering it very quickly and wanted to rule out anything other than suicide, barr told Congress in August, adding that within an hour or minutes of finding out about it, I directed the inspector general to have people in New York go to the scene and conduct an investigation. Now, I don't know if you know this about me or not, but I don't trust Bill Barr. I don't trust Darth Barr as far as I can throw him. Everything this guy says about Jeffrey Epstein sets the alarm bells going in my head. I just don't trust anything Bill Barr has to say. On the back wall, a surveillance camera is visible. It was streaming but not recording. This was due to a hard drive malfunction that that had previously been identified but not fixed, according to a Justice Department report. So who all knew about that? You want to get deep in the weeds? Was it an inside job? Did somebody know that the cameras weren't working? Then Tova, Noel, and you know, Michael Thomas, they do their little fall asleep routine, may pretend they're tired, whatever.

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Podcast Host / Epstein Chronicles Narrator (29:00)

Listen today, then Epstein's clipped seems just as plausible as any of the other bullshit they're trying to pitch to us. In fact, seems even more plausible. Next is a blurry image of the door to Epstein's cell, number 220. Running underneath the door was the cable that provided power to a CPAP machine. Epstein had initially been assigned to a cell in a different tier. Woody was moved to cell 220 for easier access to an outlet, according to the Bureau of Prisons records. And that's another thing that doesn't make sense. Why would he use bed sheets and not just this cord? If you're going to kill yourself, would you put together a bunch of bed sheets, or would you use the cord for your sleep apnea machine? I think I go with the cord. Makes things a lot easier, right? And if you want to make sure you're successful, probably better off than a bunch of sheets that are tied together. The jail's computer systems were never updated to note that move, according to investigators. A source close to the investigation told CBS News that correction staff rarely updated internal inmate moves, instead preferring to call out their names while in the tears. Two documents on the door are shown in images after Epstein's death. One was a printout with Epstein's personal details and a booking photo. Above that was the ID Card for Epstein's former roommate, Efren Reyes. Stone Reyes. You know, the guy that Bill Barr ended up having a personal meeting with and then said he didn't meet with him in the deposition. Yeah, that's Samstone. Reyes cells typically hold two inmates. And following a suspected suicide attempt two weeks earlier, Epstein was mandated by correction officials to have a cellmate. The day before Epstein's death, however, Reyes was transferred out of the detention center. Investigators eventually concluded that Reyes move allowed Epstein the solitude needed to kill himself. Well, do you think Reyes made that decision himself, or was he moved? Okay, who signed off on it? Why? What was the motivation? Why wasn't another inmate placed in the cell with Epstein? Why was all of this protocol broken? From the first photo to the last, it's clear the Scene in the cell was chaotic. So much so that investigators never conclusively determined which strip of bed sheet was around Epstein's neck when he died. How the fuck don't you even determine that? I mean, you're the federal government, right? You have all the power, all the ability, all of the technology. The only reason why something like that occurs is because you want it to occur. You don't want to get to the answers. You don't want to get to the bottom of it. Instead, let confusion reign. Photos of the bed also raise questions. One shows an orange string hanging from a bar. This picture was included in a 2023 report by the Department of Justice Inspector General alongside a description of how Epstein was found, suggesting investigators believed that was what he used to hang himself. Yeah, don't buy that. And when you look at these photos, I doubt you're gonna buy it either. If that was the case and the room hadn't been disturbed before the photographer arrived, Epstein's rear would have come to rest on a mattress. And instead of hovering over the floor, complicating investigators explanation of how he hanged himself. So let's just move the body, let's just stage the scene, and then we'll claim ignorance when, you know, people have questions later on. Best way to do it, right? Ah, we're just ignorant. We didn't know. We're just a bunch of people who are untrained, unqualified, shouldn't even be here. But hey, here's what happened. You should listen to our narrative now. Because, you know, even though we're ignorant, even though we're morons, we're telling you the truth now. Yeah, sorry. Not buying it. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. Some of the evidence was not photographed in Epstein's cell, but instead appeared to be in an entirely different room. One with floor tiles distinct from the bare concrete of Epstein's cell. These pictures show a defibrillator and another strip of orange cloth tied into a noose like shape. It is visibly different from the one shown hanging from Epstein's bed frame. Of course it is, because it's not the same one. Just listen to what we have to tell you. Don't question anything. Don't do any kind of constructive reasoning. Just listen to the narrative and shut up and move on. Well, here's an idea. At least try and pitch us a narrative that makes sense, because what you're selling here is. Is garbage. There is no indication in official reports where this noose was found or which of several knotted strips of bed linen may have been removed from around Epstein's neck. A rendering of this noose was included in Epstein's official autopsy. But the Justice Department later revealed in its 2023 report that the noose depicted is not the ligature Epstein used to kill himself. So why include it in the report? Oh, that's right. Trying to make it look official, like they had an idea of what was going on. And isn't it convenient the whole entire narrative fits with the whole Perfect Storm narrative. Oh, this was a screw up. That was a screw up. Everything's a screw up. And it was all a mistake. By the time that the FBI arrived, it was clear that their work would be scrutinized by the top brass inside the Justice Department. After the suicide, I told the headquarters to make sure that they flooded the zone, barr told Congress in an August deposition. There is no indication in any official report that an FBI crime scene investigator, officially known as an Evidence Response Team, ever ran fingerprints or DNA tests on anything found in the cell. Well, no shit they didn't. That's what they do in a real investigation, not in an investigation that they want to claim was botched. Epstein's autopsy report indicates medical examiners collected fingernail clippings and swabs from his neck and hands. Epstein's brother told CBS News that he still hasn't received any information about the results of DNA tests if they were carried out. And Barr said in his deposition that he couldn't remember if they had been done. Now, folks, look, was this ignorance because of ignorance, or was this willful ignorance in hopes to cover up what happened? Leave that up to you to decide. A 2024 report by Department of Justice researchers warned that their investigators risk missing an important opportunity to gather evidence if DNA is not collected at the scene as needed or at the time of examination. They advise that the body swabs should be considered both at the scene and during the autopsy. Weisberg said investigators left too many stones unturned, missing the opportunity to close the case in a way that would feel conclusive to the public. In the back of any good investigator's mind, he's preparing this to be scrutinized by counsel. In this case, you're preparing it to be scrutinized by a lot of desktop detectives, so you better have all your facts straight. Weisberg said the FBI inspected the cell and retrieved what they believe to be relevant to its investigation into the cause of Epstein's death, which included one torn sheet, miscellaneous papers, and an MP3 player. Inspector General investigators wrote in the 2023 report forensic analysis. Barario said he considered the agency's treatment of the scene to be striking. Some really shoddy work here, if you can even call it that, barario said. I mean, there's absence of work here. One basic procedure, which Barario referred to as evidence photography 101, is photographing scenes in a progression that goes from wide shot to close ups with markers identifying evidence. There's no evidence markers in any of these photographs. Like, how do you keep track once you get the stuff back to the crime lab? This is essentially useless, said Barario, a former police detective and an FBI trained member of the Digital Imaging and Video Recovery Team. So look, it's not just my dumbass saying this. You have people that are actually trained in the art of investigation who feel the same exact way. And I've spoken with a lot of people who have knowledge of how these investigations should work, and they all come to the same conclusion that we're getting here from Mr. Barario. Federal investigators questioned 54 people before issuing their final report, including three inmates who had been housed on Epstein's Deer, as well as jail staff, administrators, contractors and his brother. However, several other witnesses or the representatives told CBS News they were not interviewed. That included many other inmates housed in Epstein's tear the night of his death, at least one staffer who arrived at Epstein cell shortly after his body was found, and nearly all of the visitors he saw in the days leading up to his death. Now, why wouldn't you talk to everybody that was there, especially the other inmates? Two witnesses who did provide eyewitness accounts with their lawyers present were in the cell directly across from Epstein the night he died. One described seeing Thomas, the first corrections officer on the scene, enter Epstein's cell and begin performing cpr, only to emerge holding a rope and a defibrillator. The other said he saw Thomas enter and shake Epstein. He said Thomas tried to pick Epstein up but fell over. He then began giving chest compressions. The inmate said the accounts, which appear in the official report, do not explain what is seen in photos of the jail tier, their cell windows covered by paper that could have obscured any view outside. It's not clear if the cell window was papered over at the time after Epstein's death but before the first photos were snapped. The Bureau of Prisons declined to comment. Now, why would they decline to comment? It's not an ongoing investigation anymore. What are they hiding? And you know what really gets me? I think they forget that they work for us. This isn't their information, the guard. This is our information. Taxpayer information. We pay for all of it. So guess what? Quit being and pony it up. Attempts to reach Thomas were unsuccessful. A lawyer for his former co worker, Tova Noel, said she would not comment. The former officers agreed to be interviewed by investigators in 2021 as part of a deal that saw prosecutors drop charges of falsifying records related to mandatory checks on Epstein and other inmates after falling asleep on the job. Imagine, imagine that. No real punishment here. They get to go on with their lives, probably getting some kind of pension and, and here we are left with all these questions and no answers. Other staffers with first hand knowledge of the scene and other events were never contacted by federal investigators, according to interviews with CBS News. That's because they had their narrative in place from the jump. They knew what this was going to be and they called it from the very beginning what they wanted it to be. A suicide. Even though there was never any real investigation. Investigators also decided not to interview some of Epstein's visitors. Several sources told CBS News the inmate spent the bulk of his daylight hours with a large rotating cast of attorneys, including on the day before his death. The younger lawyers were there not only to provide counsel, but also to basically hold his hand and babysit, according to one source. They kept Epstein company, chatting with him about life, politics, literature and and any other topic that came to his mind. You'd think if the investigation was a priority, they'd want to take a run at the younger people who were working for him. One source told CBS News. Nothing. One lawyer who visited Epstein nine days before his death was David Schoen. He said Epstein told him he was actively planning to fight the criminal charges levied against him. And this is what we've heard from so many people that Epstein planned on fighting these charges. And this is why I've said that in my view, I don't have anything to base it on other than anecdotal. I don't think he committed suicide because he was engaged in the idea of fighting the case, shone said. He hired me and to kill himself nine days later wouldn't have made much sense. While many who were close to Epstein have publicly questioned that he died by suicide, Barr has said it was and remains the most logical conclusion. The alternative would have been too complicated, Barr said in his August deposition. Yeah, too complicated, huh?

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Alex Kanchowitz (Big Technology Podcast Host) (41:47)

Hi, this is Alex Kanchowitz. I'm the host of Big Technology Podcast, a longtime reporter and an on air contributor to cnbc. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology, I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech and outsiders trying to influence it, asking where this is all going. They come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon, and plenty more. So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices, in meetings with your colleagues and at dinner parties, listen to Big Technology Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts.

Podcast Host / Epstein Chronicles Narrator (42:23)

Let me break it down. Nicholas Tartaglioni put in the cell. Nicholas Tartaglioni assaults Jeffrey Epstein and tells him, either you kill yourself or we'll do it for you. Jeffrey Epstein gets moved to a different cell, has time to think about it, maybe gets a kite, maybe gets a message from another inmate or Tartaglioni himself, who knows? And from there, Epstein realizes that his options are limited. So instead of waiting for the inevitable, did he kill himself because he was prompted to. You want to talk about the most likely conclusions? Huh? This would have required coordination from probably two dozen people, maybe within the prison. And all these people were in different groups, Barr said. You know, the people who were repairing the cameras, the people who, you know, were responsible for opening and closing the door, the people who were responsible for putting in a new cellmate, things like that. So the idea here is to make sure that there's enough blame to go around, but not one single person to put the blame on. And that gives them the plausible deniability they're always looking for. And that's what this is here, plausible deniability. Does anyone really believe this narrative? Especially nowadays with all the information that's coming out? I know I don't. And from the emails that I get from you folks, I know you don't either. And, you know, sometimes I just sit back and think about how this whole thing went down, and Epstein's death, the investigation, the silence that followed. And it just feels like one big reminder that the rules don't mean a damn thing when power is involved. Folks like us get crushed under the system for the smallest mistake. But the people who built that system, they walk through the fire untouched, even when their fingerprints are all over the crime scene. It's like there's two versions of justice in this country. One for them and one for the rest of us. And Epstein's so called suicide was the perfect example of that. You can't tell me that a guy who had that much dirt on the world's elite, sitting in a cell where every inch should have been watched somehow managed to pull off the impossible while every safeguard magically failed at once. That wasn't a coincidence, in my opinion. It's orchestration. The timing, the silence. The way every institution from the Bureau of Prisons to the DOJ closed ranks and said case closed. You could practically hear the door slam shut on the truth. And the worst part? Nobody seems surprised. That's how broken things are. We expect corruption now. We expect lies. We just hope that the lies are creative enough to make sense, and this one wasn't even that. And when they tell you to move on, well, you know, that's when they're scared. Scared of what could come out if people really dug deep. Scared of what happens when. When the average Joe stops buying their story. Because underneath all the press releases and political doublespeak, there's a truth sitting there, ugly as hell and impossible to ignore. They didn't just fail to protect Epstein. They protected his secrets that he took with him. And those secrets belonged to people so powerful, so insulated, that even his death became just another tool in the kid. So, yeah, maybe Epstein's gone, but the system that made him protected him and then cleaned up after him. They. That's still here, still humming along, still telling us to trust the process. But the process is the problem. The investigation wasn't a failure. It was a performance. A stage play for the public designed to look like accountability while the real players vanished behind the curtain. And we've all seen enough of this show to know how it ends. With the truth buried, the files sealed, and the same people sitting at the top untouched. Look, at the end of the day, you can't call it justice if it doesn't apply to the powerful. Epstein's death wasn't the end of the case. It was the erasure of one. And the longer that they tell us to let it go, the more I know we're right not to. Because every unanswered question, every broken camera, every lie that doesn't add up, it all points to the same ugly truth. Justice wasn't served. It was silenced. And until that changes, this country is just running on fumes and fairy tales. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. Step into the world of power, loyalty, and luck. I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.

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