← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Howard Lutnick And His Trip To Congress (Part 8-10) (7/11/26)
00:51:14
The transcripts from Howard Lutnick’s closed-door appearance before Congress painted a picture of a witness trying to minimize both the depth and duration of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein while lawmakers confronted him with records suggesting...
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Howard Lutnick
Hey, everybody.
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Howard Lutnick
What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right back to Howard Lutnick and his deposition that he gave to Congress. Ms. Ansari. Secretary Lutnick, it was discussed at the top of the hour that your testimony today is not being videotaped. Did you refuse videotaping of your testimony? And to that, Lutnick's lawyer jumps in. The secretary made an agreement to be here voluntarily. It's worked out that we would do a transcribed interview and. Sorry. So it was the majority's decision to do a transcribed video, or was that a request that you all made? Trollogur. Any conversations that I've had to the representation of my client will be privileged. We're here. We're here to voluntarily answer your questions. We've been answering your questions redacted. I'm sorry. If I could. Sorry. Congresswoman. Ms. Ansari, would you refuse? Would you be open to having this on video? Lutnick? I'd prefer to just answer questions about my three meaningless and inconsequential meetings, Ms. Ansari. Okay. All right. So I know that you've been using the phrase quite a bit, so I just want to dive into that a little bit. You talked a lot about your wife today and how she's really the person who warned you about Jeffrey Epstein, and the two made an agreement for you not to, you know, be involved with him in any way. Obviously. In 2008, we know that Epstein was convicted as a child sex trafficker and an abuser. Then in 2012, of course, you did go to the island with your wife, who was the original person who, you know, had doubts with together, and you mentioned her many times. How'd your wife feel about you going to the island in 2012 if she had such deep feelings and such deep concerns? Lutnick's lawyer jumps in. Excuse me, Congresswoman, you said something that I think really does need to be corrected. For the record, you said in 2008 he'd been convicted As a trafficker, that's not accurate and sorry. As a child abuser, that's not accurate and sorry. What was he? Terwalger he was ultimately in the state process in Florida, was charged with solicitation of a minor. As a former prosecutor, that is not the same thing as child trafficking. And sorry. Okay, so solicitation of a minor by Jeffrey Epstein in 2008. Four years later, Mr. Lutnick and the entire family go to the island. Your wife had deep concerns many years before in 2005 because of a massage table. How did your wife feel in 2012? Lnick I don't want to accept any premise of the conversation, but I'll try to answer it for you. But I don't accept the premise. So. And sorry, the premise being. LUTNICK the premise being you're expressing views of my wife that you're expressing. So we were uncomfortable with what he said. He was gross. And so we discussed that I would avoid him and not have any personal or professional relationship with him, which I did not. With respect to visiting, having lunch with my family and another family and the whole crowd going to his island for lunch, I don't remember why we went. But to try to answer your question in more detail, I don't remember him registering as a sex offender. And if my next door neighbor was registered as a sex offender, and I knew it, I would remember that. And sorry. So you would remember it, presumably. LUTNICK Wait, just let me finish, if you don't mind. Let me finish. And I think if my wife knew that her next door neighbor was a registered sex offender, then she would remember that and the both of those things would have meant that we wouldn't have gone. So while I don't remember why we went, right. When I think back on it as I sit here today, we would have known because if we would have known, I wouldn't have gone. So that's my point. And sorry, if I could just look, Lutnick cuts her off. I'm just trying to describe to you. So that could be he gets cut off now by Ansari, but it was a prominent case. And so you knew at the bare minimum that he had solicited a minor. LUTNICK I don't know that. And as I said, and sorry, you don't recall it being all over the news media? LUTNICK. I don't. And sorry. I mean, I was a child when it happened and I remember all of it. LUTNICK I don't find that a little bit he gets cut off by ANSARI it's just interesting that you didn't know that your neighbor, Jeffrey Epstein, one of the most famous individuals in the country, even at the time, was all over the news for soliciting a minor in 2008. Lutnik he became famous in 2019. I didn't know him to be famous before this, and sorry. So when did you find out? MEHRON Please let the secretary finish. ANSARI I actually can ask questions whenever I'd like. Thank you. When did you find out that he was a registered sex offender? LUTNICK well, I certainly, along with everybody else in the country, I learned enormous amounts about him in 2019. Ansari when did you first find out? Lutnick first find out what? ANSARI that he was a registered sex offender or that he had solicited a minor? LUTNICK As I said, I don't remember. But what I tried to tell you before was that when thinking back, it would have been something that I would have, right? If I knew, I would have If I knew, I would have been concerned about him being living next door and I wouldn't have gone to the island. So while I sit here and I say, you know, 20 years ago or however long ago it was, but I can't tell you what I remember. I'm just trying to be helpful because I've done nothing, and we all know I have done absolutely nothing wrong, inappropriate, you know, I only interacted with this person three times in my whole life. As you know, meaningless and inconsequential, never with other people. So I'm just saying, just trying to be helpful to give you the context to the extent I can, Mr. Walkinshaw. Mr. Secretary, earlier Mr. Khanna asked you about your speculation that Epstein was blackmailing people. You responded that you subsequently changed your mind about that. And after hearing from officials in the administration, who did you speak to in the administration about Jeffrey Epstein blackmailing or not blackmailing people? LUTNICK it was just public comments from administration officials. I haven't seen those comments from administration officials that he didn't blackmail people. LUTNICK that's my best recollection. I learned it from public. He gets cut off by Walkinshaw. Okay. You refuse to answer a question about any conversation you you might have had with President Trump about today's testimony. I just want to be clear. You will not answer questions about any conversation you have with President Trump about today's testimony. Lutnick. Right. But I don't want you to think anything one way or the other. I'm not Even suggesting I have them. I'm just saying I won't go there. Question how about any time before Trump was elected president or during the four years that Joe Biden was president, any conversation with Trump when he wasn't president about Jeffrey Epstein? Lutnick no. Walkinshaw okay. I'm struggling sitting here listening to you try to describe and define I and I as a man. I'm trying to figure out what exactly it is you're trying to say. I think the American people saw it on video. They would be struggling as well. But you said on the podcast, my wife and I decided that I'll never be in the room with that disgusting person again. You said married people will understand that. So your position is that you were so turned off by him, he was so gross, something weird sexually going on in his house, that you, as a man, Howie Lutnick, did not want to be in the room with him alone, but you were okay with your wife and family being in a room with them. I'm struggling to understand that. I'm a man, too, with a wife and a child. If I felt someone was so gross, more than me not wanting to be in a room with him, I wouldn't want my wife and my child to be in a room with them. But you're very definitive that it's you, you, you, Howard Lutnick, that couldn't be in a room with them. Lutnick. I had an informal conversation with my wife, and that's what we discussed. And I would think that most people who are married would understand, they would have a conversation with their wife, that someone says something inappropriate, gross. That when you leave with your wife, she says, you should avoid that guy. He's gross. Right? And I did. So I don't think that, like, that's kind of inconsequential, which means just avoid him, which I did. So I understand. Actually, I would think people who are married would understand the conversation with their wife when they met someone who was inappropriate to say, you should avoid them. And I did. Walkinshaw. Respectfully, Mr. Secretary, I think most people who are married would say we should never be in a room with him again. But have you had any conversation with anyone in the White House? Setting aside the president, you're refusing to discuss conversations with the president. Any conversations with anyone who works in the White House about today's interview? Lutnick no. Walkinshaw okay, thank you. We can go off the record. They have a recess and they come back. Emmer we'll go back on the record.
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Howard Lutnick
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Howard Lutnick
Comer jumps in. Yeah, I just want to say something. I've been listening to the press conference the Democrats run out to say, and they have said several things that aren't true that you said. And Walkinshaw especially, he's in a tough race against a transgender candidate, and I think he. I don't know what he's doing. I don't understand what it takes to win a Democrat primary. But it's very fortunate or unfortunate because I think the transcript will reflect that they just went out and said it's completely false. And that's very disappointing because this is an important investigation. We're trying to learn everything we can to see if there's any way to hold people who committed crimes accountable for terrible things. And I'm doing everything in my ability to have a serious, credible investigation. Mr. Secretary, you've come here voluntarily. We appreciate it. And I just felt like I needed to say that on the record, so I'll yield back. EMMER thank you. Question, Mr. Secretary, is there something that you want to clarify on the record? Answer yeah, I just want to make sure everybody understands that I have a Department of Commerce lawyer with me at the end. And so they said, did I use my Commerce resources? I had scheduling, which talked to people at Commerce, and I did send my opening statement to my comms director so he can know what I was going to say, but that's it. Question. Thank you. I understand that you've answered a lot of similar questions over the last two hours. So the majority will continue to ask questions that you have not answered. EMMER question. At this time, I would like to introduce what will be marked as majority Exhibit 9. And while he's passing it out to the next however many minutes, we're going to walk through specific emails that were released as part of the Epstein Transparency act that referenced the secretary, of course, in his personal capacity, Lutnick's lawyer jumps back in. Mr. Emmer, may I just ask a quick question? Emmer yes, sir. Sorry to take your time. We're still on the record. Emmer yeah, I noticed that especially after what the Chairman just said. Congressman Waukesha said he had not heard about certain statements that Secretary Lutnick talked about administration officials. I just wanted to be clear for the record that ranking member Garcia of this committee sent a letter where those things were mentioned. So I guess he's not aware of his own ranking members. Letter comer. Honesty is not a specialty, Emmer. Thank you. All right, we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Howard Lutnick deposition with Congress. Question by Emmer. So this is an email from the Dubin Breast center to Jeffrey Epstein with the subject line, a special invitation from Eva Anderson Dubin. Secretary Lutnick, I'm aware that you're not a part of the email chain, but do you recognize this flyer? Not offhand, no. Were you involved with the Dubin breast cancer? I gave the money. And how do you know Glen and Eva Dubin? I met them through the hospital. Did you understand the Dubins to have a relationship with Mr. Epstein? I learned that later. After 2019. What did you learn as far as their relationship? That Ms. Dubin had her prior existing relationship with Mr. This individual. Were you involved with selecting individuals that would be invited to this event? No. And for the record, did you attend this event? I don't remember. So you would not know if Jeffrey Epstein attended the event as well or if Jeffrey Epstein attended this specific event? I have told I have been here and answered every question of every interaction I've had. So I do not recall any other interaction. Emmer, at this time, I'd like to introduce what will be marked as majority exhibit number 10. And this is Bates, marked EFTA 2671545. This email is dated November 11, 2015 and was released by the Department of Justice as part of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. Secretary Lutnick, we discussed your emails in the previous hour. Did you send this email? I did not. It was sent on your behalf, is that right? It was sent by Matthew Gilbert. Do you recall this event taking place with Secretary Clinton? Yes. What do you recall about the event? A classic fundraising political event. And what was your relationship with Secretary Clinton at the time? We had a historical relationship. She was very helpful to New York. And am I company after 9? 11. Did you understand Secretary Clinton have a relationship with Mr. Epstein? No question. And as far as the event, for the record, do you have any recollection of interacting with Jeffrey Epstein at this event? I did not. And he wasn't there. Okay. In January of 2017, there was a Brioni flagship store opening that Mr. Epstein was invited to. Do you recall this event? Answer no. Mr. Emmer, at this time, I would like to enter what will be marked as majority exhibit number 11. And this is Batesmarked EFTA 222-9721. I'll direct your attention to page two. This is an invitation from John Paulson sent to Leslie Groff, who then forwarded it to Mr. Epstein. The subject line of the email reads, UJA, Wall Street Dinner honoring Howard Lutnick. Secretary Lutnick. Do you recall this event taking place? Yeah. And why did this event take place? It was a record setting FundRaiser event for Uja and the email is from John Paulson. Did you direct Mr. Paulson to invite Jeffrey Epstein? No question. And it appears as though Mr. Epstein did in fact donate. Did you solicit that donation? Answer no question. Did you thank Mr. Epstein for that donation for the event? Answer no question. And as far as the event itself, presumably you attended the event. Did you see Mr. Epstein or interact with Mr. Epstein at this event? Answer no question. Secretary Lutnick, you mentioned traveling with your kids in a previous hour. Did you have a private nanny? Sure. Question. And as we've seen from the Epstein files that have been released, it appears that a nanny that was in your employee had sent her resume to Mr. Epstein. Do you know anything about that? I have no knowledge about it at all. Question. And for the record, you never encouraged any of the nannies that were under your employment to reach out for Mr. Epstein in any respect? That's correct. None. Mr. Are you aware of any employee of yours later working for Jeffrey Epstein? No. No employee of mine, I don't think ever worked for Jeffrey Epstein. Are you aware of any employee of Jeffrey Epstein ever later working for you? No. Mr. Emmer, I now would like to introduce what will be marked as Exhibit 12 and 13. And as they're being handed out, Exhibit 12 is Bates marked EFTA 1868626. Exhibit 13 is Bates marked EFTA 218429? And I'll give you a chance to review the exhibits and notes that it appears as though you were not a recipient of those emails. Ter Wulger, the lawyer for Lutnick, jumps in. Are we done with the prior exhibit Mr. Emmer. Yes, sir, Secretary Lutnick. Oh, I should just make clear, I don't know if, like, some gardener ever worked for, you know, like, I wouldn't possibly know that one way or the other. We're only asking you to testify to the best of your knowledge and recollection, Lutnick. Okay, I know. Well, you had a preamble in the beginning, and I'm just trying to be responsive. Emmer, Question. Thank you. So, during the previous hour, we talked about interactions. Then you had in April of 2011. I just want to clarify for the record, these two exhibits imply that there is a meeting on May 1. Would it be your impression that. Is the meeting related to the scaffolding? It is. So. This. This is incorrect. I did not have drinks. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Grant. Secretary Lutnick, you've answered questions regarding Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell a numerous amount of times at this point.
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Congressional Questioner / Investigator
I.
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Howard Lutnick
Across different hearings around Congress and here today. Is there anything that hasn't been asked of you that you think that we should know as part of the investigation? Let Nick know. Emmer. Thank you. We'll go off record. Redacted. We can go back on record. Secretary Lutnick, a few more questions. Like I said earlier, if it's repetitive or it's been asked and answered, I'm going to try to avoid it. I can't promise I'm going to succeed in every case, but I'm going to try. With respect to the tour of the home that we discussed, just a few general questions about what you recall. Did you see any women in Epstein's home on that tour other than your wife? Answer. You're talking about which question? 2005. Answer. Lutnick. You're talking about his townhouse in New York. Question. Yeah. The tour of Epstein's house in New York that you received in 2005. Answer. So is residence. Okay, so what's the question you'd like? Did you see any woman or women in the home other than your wife? No. Did you see any photos or other images that were sexual or sexually suggestive? No. Did you see any cameras or other recording device? No. Question. Apart from the massage table and candles, did you see anything that raised a concern on your part about Mr. Epstein? No. Did you see anything in the home that was related to President Trump? Answer. No. Always about Trump. Buff. Ungol. Trump. Okay, enough already.
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Howard Lutnick
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Howard Lutnick
Question at some point in that New York Post, when you were discussing the concept of blackmail, you add something to the effect of that's how Epstein had money. Just wanted to ask, did you have any direct or indirect knowledge of Epstein making any kind of money through blackmail? Answer no, I was just speculating. Question did you then or now have any knowledge regarding the relationship between Epstein and Les Wexner? Answer what's the question again? Sorry. Well, maybe if the Republicans went and talked to Wexner when they had him on the dock, they would have found out. But they didn't do that, did they? Oh, that's right. Question did you either back then or sitting here now, have any knowledge of that relationship between Epstein and Wexner? At some point I came to learn that they were friends. Did you ever hear, directly or indirectly that blackmail may have had any component of their relationship? I can't remember one way or the other. I remember something about their relationship ended badly, but I don't have any particular relation, particular knowledge. Do you recall any more detail other than that? No. Do you have any knowledge regarding the relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Leon Black? Answer what's the question again? Question do you have either back then or sitting here today, any knowledge regarding the relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Leon Black? Answer no other than I think they had a relationship of some form. Question Is that based on public reporting as far as you know, or any kind of personal knowledge? Answer I don't have any personal knowledge. Question have you ever heard, directly or indirectly that blackmail may have had any role in the relationship between Epstein and Leon Black? Answer no particular knowledge. No. Question okay, but part of the New York Post interview, there was a part that was related to the existence of videos and videos possibly being traded in exchange for Mr. Epstein's plea deal. I just wanted to clarify, did you have any knowledge of such a trade occurring? The lawyer telwager jumps in Mr. Adacted, can I just ask a question? You say the New York Post interview. You mean the Pod Force One podcast, correct? I do indeed. Lutnick, would you mind repeating the question? Question sure. Of course. There was a part towards the back of the end of the podcast, a discussion about Epstein. There was a discussion about the possible existence of videos of powerful men getting massages, and there might be something compromising on those videos. I think you had discussed the possibility that if those videos existed, maybe Mr. Epstein had traded them to the Department of Justice in exchange for a lenient plea deal. I just wanted to ask whether you thought that was based on any personal knowledge of yours or was that just a theoretical thought? Answer I was just speculating for the podcast. This guy's a cabinet member and he's out here speculating on a podcast. Okay, Question A few general questions. They're similar to some that you've answered, but I think phrase slightly differently. Prior to becoming or it becoming public knowledge, did you ever have direct or indirect knowledge of the sexual abuse that Jeffrey Epstein was committing against minors and young women? Answer no question Prior to becoming public knowledge, did you ever have direct or indirect knowledge of the sexual abuse that Ghislaine Maxwell was committing and facilitating against minors and young women? No Question have you ever engaged in sexual activity with a person introduced to you by Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell? No Question have you ever received a massage from a person introduced to you by Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell? No question okay, my colleague has a few questions related to Epstein's various properties. Question so, Secretary Lutnick, you answered questions previously about a number of Epstein's properties, but we wanted to cover a few that had not been raised yet specifically. So did you ever visit Epstein's home in New Albany, Ohio? Answer no Question. And what about any of the apartments that he rented in London? Answer no Question okay, and then a few general questions about his properties in general, whether or not they're the ones that you personally visited. Did you ever hear any rumors or allegations of minors visiting Epstein at any of his properties before they became public reporting? Answer no Question okay. Did you ever see or hear of large numbers of women visiting Epstein's New York home? Answer no question. Or any other property? Answer no Question okay. And do you recall hearing about any other prominent figure include individuals visiting any of Epstein's home? Terwalger, could you be a little more specific about which homes, time frame, what you mean by prominent figure? Sure. I think prominent figure can include politician, well known, wealthy individual, celebrities generally. And other than that, what you have read through public reporting since did you have any personal knowledge of Epstein hosting? We can go property by property. That's easier. Hosting any such individuals at his New York home? Answer no. Palm Beach? Answer no question New Mexico? Answer no Question Paris? Answer no Question Any other property? Answer no question okay, or flying on his planes. Any of those people flying on his planes or taking other of his. The modes of transportation that he owned. Answer no question. Okay. Answer nothing, then whatever's public. Question and other than public reporting, do you recall hearing anything about Epstein throwing parties at any of his homes? No question. Okay, thank you. All right, we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of. Of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with Howard Lutnick deposition in front of Congress. Question. I'm going to work through the chronology of some of these subsequent interactions between yourself and Mr. Epstein, some of which has been discussed today, some of which has not, but I'll try to work through it efficiently. A starting question is there was a file in the DOJ release suggesting that in January of 2006, a driver named Arnold Garguillo was possibly coming to work for you, or at least was interviewing and had put Epstein down as a reference. Do you sitting here today, have any knowledge or recollection of that? Answer no question. In July of 2006, as we discussed, Mr. Epstein was arrested in Florida on charges of soliciting prostitution. As far as you recall, were you aware of that arrest at the time? No. Did you ever discuss the arrest with Mr. Epstein? No. Question. Did you ever discuss the arrest with other individuals at the time? Answer no question. In June of 2008, Mr. Epstein pled guilty to state charges of soliciting prostitution and soliciting a minor for prostitution. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison, of which he served 13 months, most of which was on work release program. Were you aware of Mr. Epstein's plea deal at the time? That's June of 2008, as I sit here today. I don't remember. Do you ever recall discussing the plea with Epstein? I did not. Do you recall discussing the plea with other individuals at the time? Not that I recall, no. Do you recall when you first became aware that Mr. Epstein's plea involved a minor? Not that I recall, no. Do you ever recall discussing Mr. Epstein's work release program with him? No. I'm going to introduce an exhibit. It'll be minority B. I think it's possibly you've already seen it today, so I apologize for that. So this email is from October of 2009, and we can see that somebody emails Epstein saying that Rich Barnett, who we understand was an Epstein employee, said that one of your employees approached Barnett asking for Epstein's number because of you. Mr. Lutnick wanted to call or speak with Epstein. What did you want to speak with Epstein about? Answer I have no recollection of this. Question. No recollection at all. Answer no question sitting here today, any theories or any memories that might possibly account for the outreach. Answer May have been construction related, but I shouldn't speculate. I don't remember. I will introduce minority exhibit C. I'll give you a moment to look it over. So this is an email chain dated March 24, 2011. The subject is Howard Lutnick. And it seems from Leslie Groff's email. Leslie Groff says that Howard Lutnick is on an airplane headed overseas. His office would like to know if you'd like to set up a call while he's away or if you prefer to speak with him on Monday, April 4, when he's back. Epstein received that email and replied that the 4th of April was okay. Do you recall what the context for this call being set up? I think this is in the context resulting in the interaction I had with him at the which I discussed with you earlier, which was about scaffolding. So I think this leads to that interaction. Does anyone really believe that these two dudes were talking about scaffolding? I hate to interject here, but man, this reads like a bunch of bs. Question okay, and I'll introduce minority exhibit D, which is on a similar interaction. I can go right to you next time. So this is an email chain starting on April 4, which is the day in the previous exhibit that looked like it was set for you and Epstein to have a call. This email chain here starts with Leslie Groff saying, Howard Lutnick returned your call. Mr. Epstein says call this tomorrow. And the answer to that is will do. So we read those two exhibits together as there was a call set up for April 4th. Mr. Epstein called you, you returned his call. Mr. Epstein planned to call you back the next day on April 5th. Is that reading of those exhibits correct as far as you can remember? Answer My understanding is he had something to tell me. His office call, tried to arrange a call and we had difficulty connecting until ultimately he told me to my best recollection about scaffolding on May 1. So this was all just not being able to connect before that time, which ultimately led to him telling me about my best recollection about scaffolding on May 1. So this was all just not being able to connect before that time, which ultimately led to that question. And do you remember did the two of you ever actually speak on the phone in this back and forth? We did not, or I wouldn't have needed to listen to him tell me about scaffolding in person. He could have told me on the phone. I'll introduce Minority Exhibit E. I'll give you a moment to look that over. The lawyer jumps in again. Mr. Yeah, I believe there are several documents in between. It's your interview. You get to do it however you want. Obviously. I would note though that for the record, there are several other of the release files that show a back and forth between Epstein and his staff that reveal that there was never communication between Howard Lutnick. I'm happy to give you the Bates numbers after the fact redacted. I appreciate we're aware of that paper that you're describing and just looking to save you a little paper question so you've had a chance to look this over. It's an email dated April 27, 2011. It appears to be either from or from and to Leslie groff, who was Mr. Epstein's assistant. And it looks like it lays out a schedule for May 1, Sunday, May 1, and I think we understand based on earlier testimony today that that was the day that you went over to Mr. Epstein's house for the scaffolding discussion. I just had some pretty targeted questions. One, did I hear correctly your testimony that the word drinks is not accurate here? Is that right? Answer that's right. Question okay, so the best of your recollection, did you and Mr. Epstein just sort of sit there. No refreshments. Have your conversation about scaffolding and that was it? Answer Right, that's my best recollection. I was in his foyer with my dog. Question do you recall seeing any other folks on this schedule while you were there? So Woody Allen is listed next to his schedule, Soon Yi and some other folks. Do you recall seeing any other individual or prominent individual during your visit? I did not see them and I would definitely remember seeing meeting Woody Allen and Soon Yi if I did so. I did not see anyone. Question did you see any women during your visit who looked like they were under the age of 18? No. How about any women who look like they may have been under the age of 25? No. Did you see any images during your visit that were either nude or sexual in nature? No. I was in his foyer. Did you notice any video cameras in the foyer? No. Did you see anything at all during your visit that was suggestive of sexual abuse or was otherwise sexual in nature? Say that again. Did you see anything at all during your visit that was suggestive I of sexual abuse or was sexual in nature at all? Answer no. Question do you recall where you were aware at this point that Mr. Epstein had pled guilty to sex crimes involving solicitation of a minor? I can't remember, but I don't think so. Question.
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- [35:14]
Howard Lutnick
I'm going to move to your visit to the island in December of 2012 and just ask a few questions that I don't think have been asked yet about that visit. To the best of your recollection, when you visited Mr. Epstein's island in December of 2012, did you know at that point that Mr. Epstein had been convicted or had pled guilty to crimes involving solicitation of a minor? I don't remember, but I don't think so, no. Do you recall having any concerns about visiting Epstein's Island? You described the unsettling nature of of how the Visit got started. Mr. Epstein, knowing your travel plans, do you recall feeling unsettled from the get go, whether you had concerns about making the visit? Answer I just don't remember the discussion leading up to the visit. Question do you remember the unsettling feeling related to the initial outreach? I don't know that I knew that. So it's unsettling as I see it now, I don't know that I knew that then. Question in other words, can you just elaborate on that a little bit? You don't know what you knew what exactly then? Answer I do not know that at that time I knew that they had learned of my travel plans and started to pursue me. I don't know that I knew that at that time. Question did you know that the invitation came from Epstein's side? Whether that's Mr. Epstein personally or his staff? Answer I must have. Well, I don't remember. I must have. And how that came to be, I don't know. But it must have because it would have never come from us. Would it be logical to say that it was very likely your impression that the invitation came from Epstein or his staff because it would be very strange for you to spontaneously invite yourself to Epstein's island. That's right. Question okay. Do you recall at the time being confused at all about how Mr. Epstein would have known about your travel plans? I just can't remember anything about it. Question so that unsettled feeling that it's more in the present as you read the emails today. Answer Right. Question do you recall visiting or your visit to Mr. Epstein's island seeking any or seeing any women who look like they were under the age of 18 other than the folks who were part of your party? Answer no. Question how about any women who look like they were under the age of 25? Answer no question. Did you see any images that were nude, sexual or sexually suggestive? Answer no. Question did you notice any video cameras? Answer not that I can recall. No Question did you see anything that you can recall now that stood out to you as unusual or concerning? Answer no Question There are a few follow ups in the DOJ files in the four to five weeks after your visit to the island. I can introduce them, but I don't think I need to. But where? Mr. Epstein's assistant would send your staff various articles, some of them related to gaming legislation in the Virgin Islands or the gaming industry in Antigua. Do you recall receiving through your staff indirectly. Do you recall receiving any outreach of that nature? No Question. Do you recall during your visit to the island in December of 2012 discussing with Mr. Epstein or anyone else topics related to gaming legislation or the gaming industry? No question. You may have been asked this. I'm sorry, if you were, what's your recollection of what we discussed during that visit? As I recall, basically it's inconsequential, meaning nothing. But do you have any recollection of specifically what was discussed? I don't think anything was discussed. I was with. I was with the crowd of my wife, my friends, another couple and lots of children. It wasn't anything. Question it could have been the weather. I'm just asking whether you have any memory of what was discussed. Answer no, I have no recollection of anything being discussed. Question okay, well, we can agree that very likely something was discussed. In other words, you and the group didn't sit there in silence as far as you remember. Answer well, discussed. I mean, if you said chit chat, I'd go with that. Discuss. Sounds like there was a discussion, which I don't think there was. Question no, I mean, it Answer. I would say chitchat, inconsequential chitchat, I'm sure was, I would agree with you, was likely to have occurred. Question. I meant in the literal sense. In other words, words being spoken in a conversation. Answer for sure. Question. Okay, do you have any recollection of what the nature of that discussion was? Answer. No. Question. Question. Give me a moment. I'm going to show you something that the majority has already introduced and I'm trying to find it so I don't have to introduce a second copy. Terwalger jumps in. Which one was it? I might have it right here. Redacted the UJA email if you've got it. Terwalgar. Yeah, let me check. Redacted number 11. Majority exhibit 11. Terwalgar. Yeah, let me just make sure that's the right one. Question. There's some language in the email from Mr. Paulson in the second paragraph of the email. So I think it's going to be right over there. It starts with as chairman of the Wall Street Division. And I'll just read the sentence out loud. As chairman of the Wall Street Division, I want to make sure that as a close friend of the Lutnicks, you're aware of the event and have the opportunity to support them. That's the end of the sentence. We know that. This email, I'm sure, went to a number of people, one of which was Mr. Epstein's assistant. Would you, at this point in 2017 have characterized Mr. Epstein as a close friend of you or your family? No question. Do you have any recollection of how that list was formed? No question. Is it, as far as you can recall, possible that you or your staff provided an initial list to Mr. Paulson? Because it would seem unlikely that Mr. Paulson would come up with his own list of what he understands to be your network. Well, I have no knowledge of how he came up with the list. There was a discussion of the admin deal, which we understand to be an agreement that was initially entered into. You know, I'll just introduce that exhibit because I don't think it's been introduced. So let's do that. Alright, thank you, sir. Question. I'll give you a moment to look it over. You don't need to read every word. The COVID page and the signatory pages are probably the focus of the questions. Okay, so this is from its title page. Appears to be a stock purchase agreement or a series a preferred stock purchase agreement for a company named AdfinSolutions dated December 28, 2012. At the back of the document, Bates number ending 9580 and 9581. We find Mr. Epstein, as well as yourself as signatories to the agreement. When this agreement was signed In December of 2012, did you know that Mr. Epstein was a signatory to the agreement? Answer no. Terwalger jumps in before we go forward, I've looked at all the documents related to Admin and it has been widely reported erroneously over and over that the documents were executed in December 28th of 2012. I believe if you look into the files, and we don't have time to do that today, but I can give you and your team the Bates numbers, you'll see that there were multiple executions that, that happen by different parties. So I would proffer to you today that there are documents within the DOJ released Epstein files that show that when Cantor Fitzgerald Venture Capital signed the documents, it was. It was much later. Give me one second, I'll give you the date. It would have been in 2013, in spring. I'm happy to get with your team afterwards and show you this, but that's been widely, I think, misrepresented, redacted. I appreciate that. Thank you. So when you, in your capacity as President, signed the document, let's say in the spring of 2013, did you know that whether Mr. Epstein was also a signatory to the agreement? No. And you should know, I don't think I heard about this investment until 2013. I think the pitch was made to me in May of 2013 from the document. So it wasn't December. Question. Great. At the time that you received the pitch, ended up signing the agreement, did you at that point know whether Epstein was also an investor or also a signatory to the agreement? No question. At what point did you learn that Mr. Epstein had been a signatory to this agreement in this process? Question. In preparation for the interview. Answer. Right. And well. And after the Epstein file showed he was an investor, otherwise, I didn't know. Question. And the email chain that we looked at earlier from 2018, where Epstein was asking you about the prospects for Adfin and, and you talked about this is the year to generate revenue, that exchange, you did not know during that exchange that Epstein was an investor, an admin? I do not remember that I knew that. No question. Okay. And as far as you can recall, were there any other communications that you and Epstein had with respect to Adfin that have not been discussed here today? Answer no. Question. Did you have any other business or financial dealings with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer. No question. To the best of your knowledge, did any of your assets or any of Counter Fitzgerald's assets ever help finance any of Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell's crimes? Answer no question. And that question applies to any alleged sexual as well as financial crimes? Still no Answer No. Terwalgar jumps in again Redacted. My apologies, I should have said this earlier. You made a statement that and I just wanted to make sure it's clear for the record. If you'd like to ask the secretary a follow up question, you ask did you have any other business dealings with Epstein? I think it's. I'm not accusing you of mischaracterization. I just want to make sure it's clear for the record. I do not consider this business dealing with Mr. Epstein. So there cannot be another question regardless of how one characterizes admin? I think the question, and I think the answers are clear, there are no business dealings other than admin that to your knowledge you were Cantor Fitzgerald had with Jeffrey Epstein, Is that correct? Answer yes, to the best of my recollection, yeah. Question and as far as we can tell from the public record, the exchanges about Adfin and the Pierre, this is 2018. Those are the last known communications that we have between yourself and Mr. Epstein.
- [45:29]
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- [46:00]
Howard Lutnick
As far as I can tell, when was the last time that you communicated with Epstein directly or indirectly? Answer the 2018 emails that I've seen, the one exchange is the only email exchange that I have learned about in the process. And I don't recall any other question. And that includes not recalling any others that might be indirectly through an assistant or staff member. Still the same answer. Answer I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have known of them other than through the process where you've, you know, had emails. I don't know, maybe I don't engage in other people's emails. Question and as to any communication with Galaine Maxwell, you described meeting Ms. Maxwell at an event. I'm sorry, I don't recall. Approximately when and where was that event? Answer Rockefeller Institute. I think that's the name, but I'm not certain. It's a research institution in New York Science and it was fundraising event for them. Question and what do you recall about your interaction with Ms. Maxwell at that event? Non consequential meaning just I met her. That would be it. Do you recall who introduced you, if anyone? My best recollection was she was a guest of Leon Black. Question do you or did you have a personal or professional relationship with Mr. Black? I have what I would describe as a friendly, intermittent relationship with Mr. Black. Question do you recall I know inconsequential was the word that you used, but what do you remember specifically about what was said with Ms. Maxwell? Did she say, hey, it's great to meet you, I know you live next door to Jeffrey, or anything of that nature? Answer I have no recollection of the word spoken. Question did you have any understanding of why Mr. Black and Ms. Maxwell as was it a guest or just the same time as her? Answer actually, I don't know. Question and what year was that event? Lutnick? I don't know. Question there's been widespread public reporting that was also discussed earlier. The photograph from your visit to Mr. Epstein's island. They're reporting that the photograph was initially included in a DOJ release and then it came down and then it was put back up. My question to you is, have you had any direct or indirect communication with any administration official regarding putting up, taking down, releasing any particular files from the DOJ Epstein database? No. Have you had any direct or indirect communication with any administration official about the redaction of any file included in the DOJ database? No. Question have you had any direct or indirect communication with any administration official regarding the DOJ's process for reviewing and releasing files under the Epstein Files Transparency Act? Answer no Question have you had any conversation of any kind regarding the contents of the files that DOJ reviewed pursuant to the Epstein Files Transparency Act? Answer no Question do you have any knowledge, other than public sources of how the Department of Justice settled on a timeline for releasing files under the Epstein Files Transparency Act? No Question do you have any knowledge, other than public sources of how many files the Department of Justice has reviewed but withheld under the Epstein Files Transparency Act? No question. I'm going to ask a few questions. We're getting to the end here. I'm going to ask you a few questions about President Trump. Some versions of them you may have been asked, others you have not. How long have you known President Trump? More than 30 years. How did you originally meet? I don't Remember, did you ever have a conversation with Jeffrey Epstein or or Glenn Maxwell about President Trump? No Question. At any time when President Trump was a private citizen, were you present for a conversation about Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell? Where Trump was then Donald Trump was also present for. In other words, were you ever in his company where Epstein or Maxwell were discussed? Answer no question. At any time when President Trump was president, did you have a conversation with him about Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell? Terwalger as we talked about before, we're not going to answer questions under executive privilege or we're here to answer your questions. We're not going to violate executive privilege. Question and that was a clarification from me whether it was just wanting to answer or whether it was an executive privilege assertion. The other lawyer jumps in. Mayron There's a process for you to go through if you'd like to see that information. And, and I'm happy to talk with you afterwards if that's something you want to pursue. Question yeah, just the question here is whether it's on an executive privilege, but I understand that the question is not being answered. I got that. But I'm just asking whether it's an executive privilege basis or choosing not to answer the question. Terwalger I have not gone through the formal process to do that. Let me rephrase my objection. I think it's been asked and answered. Apart from public reporting, do you have any direct or indirect knowledge of the nature of the relationship between Epstein and Donald Trump? Answer no. Apart from Republic reporting, do you have any direct or indirect knowledge of whether President Trump was ever aware of Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell's crimes prior to the crimes becoming public? Answer no Question. To your knowledge, were your connection to Jeffrey Epstein or any interaction that you had with Jeffrey Epstein ever discussed or examined in the course of your nomination or a vetting process for your current position? Please ask me again. Question to your knowledge, were your interactions with Jeffrey Epstein ever discussed or examined in the course of your nomination or vetting process for your current position? I don't remember that. No. You have no recollection of that happening, is that correct? Right. Were you ever questioned by any law enforcement agency and in connection with an investigation related to Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell? Answer no question okay, let me ask it a different way. Do you know whether the that person whose resume was sent to Mr. Epstein's staff was one of the nannies who accompanied your family on your visit to his island in December of 2012? Let me add exhibit number G. Terwalger thank you. Question. I'll give you a second to look that one over. So you can see here. This appears to be a resume of an individual. That individual's name is in the subject line in the body. This is from Richard Kahn, who was on Epstein's staff. In the body, it says, attached is a resume of Lutnick nanny to your recollection name and the subject line. Is that the nanny who accompanied you on the trip to Mr. Epstein's island? I don't know. Do you possess any communication documents or other material related to Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell that are not already publicly available? Do I possess. No. Question. And then I think we had a few more questions from a member. Right, Anzari? I'm fine. Okay. Then I will ask, is there anything else that you would like to share with the committee before we go off record? Just a small thing, which is that I don't grow a beard until after Mr. This individual Epstein was dead. So that mask that you showed me, I never had a beard before that. Question. I got it. Answer. And I never had a goatee either. So I just wanted to say that these things are not possibly about me. Redacted. Those are clear on the transcript. Thank you. We will go off record. Well, I have to say now that we've taken a look at the transcript for ourselves, I don't believe a word Howard Lutnick is uttering. So we're going to wrap this one up right here. But you better believe there's going to be a post mortem for this interview we had with Congress. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. Hey everybody.
- [53:45]
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