Mega Edition: Leon Black Is Chased From The Apollo Boardroom By The Epstein Allegations (7/1/26)

Summary

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The Epstein Chronicles

Mega Edition: Leon Black Is Chased from the Apollo Boardroom by the Epstein Allegations

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: July 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Bobby Capucci dives deep into the explosive developments around Leon Black, the influential co-founder and CEO of Apollo Global Management, and his forced departure from the boardroom amid mounting allegations and evidence of deep financial ties with Jeffrey Epstein. Capucci breaks down the new revelations—over $150 million in payments to Epstein, internal board struggles, the implications for Apollo and the broader Wall Street ecosystem, and wider questions about complicity and consequences for the elite's involvement with Epstein. In his signature direct and impassioned style, Capucci also unpacks the wider societal and legal ramifications, consistently pressing for accountability and systemic change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Leon Black's Departure: The Boardroom Showdown

• Rain in Vegas & Breaking News: Capucci opens with rare weather, then pivots to the bombshell—Leon Black stepping down from Apollo amid new revelations (00:34).
• Pattern of Resignations: Parallels with other Epstein associates forced out of powerful positions, suggesting a consistent trajectory for those exposed (02:33).
• The Real Reason for Stepping Down: Capucci casts doubt on official statements by Black claiming his departure is voluntary—"This is always the first step, right? These guys deciding, 'Oh, well, I've decided that I'm going to step down...'" (02:33); host speculates on looming further investigations.

2. The Financial Web: How Much Did Black Pay Epstein?

• "More Payments to Jeffrey Epstein": Spotlight on the New York Times' investigation revealing Black paid Epstein over $150 million, much higher than previously admitted (14:59).
  • "150 million dollars for advice? Come on, give me a break." – Bobby Capucci ([14:59])
  • Raises the core question: "What in the hell was all of that money really for?" ([15:28])
• Additional Loans: Black lent Epstein $30 million, only a third repaid. Capucci ridicules the idea that this is business as usual: "Survey says the shit don't add up." ([19:13])
• Epstein as "Advisor": The firm claims the payments were for estate, tax, and art advice, leading Capucci to mock the notion: "Now Jeffrey Epstein was an art appraiser as well. Man, this dude sure wore many hats, huh?" ([35:58])
• Tax Savings Defense: Black's team claims advice from Epstein was worth up to $2 billion in tax savings ([25:14]), but Capucci remains highly skeptical and calls for audits and evidence: "My dude, you better have some receipts." ([25:23])

3. Apollo Boardroom Power Struggle & Fallout

• Hostile Takeover: A rare internal battle emerges, with co-founder Joshua Harris pushing for Black's immediate ouster, seeing Black as a reputational and financial liability (27:53).
  • "Leon Black is in for the fight of his life. He is not gonna remain chairman." ([26:16])
• Succession Politics: Mark Rowan, considered a "weird" choice by Capucci, steps back into the CEO role despite having been on sabbatical—host speculates on what this bypasses about Harris’s influence ([32:16]).
• Investor Revolt: Major pension funds freeze new investments, awaiting outcomes of the internal probe, signaling wider risk for Apollo if Black stayed in any leadership role ([39:45]).

4. Elites, Complicity, and Accountability

• Wider Problem: Capucci expands the lens, critiquing banks, institutional enablers, and the systemic failure to hold those in charge accountable:
  • "These banks have just proven themselves to be such scoundrels and such just evil people almost right with, with no, no moral compass whatsoever..." ([08:18])
• Charity as Cover: Black pledges $200 million to gender equality/anti-trafficking charities—a move Capucci brands as PR deflection, not redemption ([33:26]):
  • "Talk about COVID your ass. And that's exactly what he's doing here."
• Civil and Criminal Jeopardy: Capucci stresses that the civil RICO case in the Virgin Islands (Denise George) may expose financial crimes, not sex trafficking, for Black ([24:11]).

5. Media, Narrative, and the Search for Truth

• NYT Gets Credit: Despite past criticism, Capucci applauds the New York Times for staying on the Leon Black story ([11:58]).
• Host’s Method: Capucci insists on skepticism, reading between the lines, and demanding evidence vs. accepting official narratives.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Absurdity of $150M in "Advice"
  "The Coney Island hot dog vendor Jeffrey Epstein is not dropping knowledge that's worth 150 million dollars. As Michael Corleone would say, he's not even a wartime consigliere."
  – Bobby Capucci ([14:59] and [15:25])

• On Institutional Accountability
  "If I was helping you commit some sort of crime, you better damn well I'd be charged. So I want to see the same thing for these people there. They're not above the law."
  – Bobby Capucci ([07:51])

• On Black’s Attempt to ‘Charity-Wash’
  "If you really wanted to fight against sex trafficking and you really cared about gender equality, you never would have been cavorting with a convicted sex offender in the first place."
  – Bobby Capucci ([33:26])

• On Skepticism of Boardroom Claims
  "Leon Black was trying to put some distance between himself and Jeffrey Epstein all the way back in 2018. He knew the deal...and that...is why he broke off ties with Epstein. If he did."
  – Bobby Capucci ([38:22])

• On the Nature of Wall Street Power Battles
  "When you show your belly to the other wolf that you're fighting, you're bound to end up disemboweled. And speaking professionally, that's what's occurring here."
  – Bobby Capucci ([26:16])

• On the Wider Problem
  "The most powerful amongst us, the movers and the shakers. More like the moronic and the stupid."
  – Bobby Capucci ([22:20])

• On Apollo’s Immediate Future
  "If Leon Black is not completely forced out, then I highly doubt any of these pensions that have been waiting to dump money with Apollo are going to go through with it. I think they're going to take their money elsewhere."
  – Bobby Capucci ([47:24])

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |----------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:34–02:30 | Rare rain in Vegas; transition to Leon Black headline | | 02:33–05:25 | The recurring fates of Epstein-associated elites; Black’s predicament | | 11:14–12:58 | NYT article review: Apollo’s internal strife and Black’s ouster | | 14:59–16:52 | $150M+ in Epstein payments and credibility of the official story | | 19:13–20:33 | The absurdity of the loan repayments and analogies to NBA Jam | | 22:15–24:40 | “Second chances” for Epstein and denials of direct sexual abuse ties | | 24:11–25:23 | Civil RICO case and Black’s legal jeopardy | | 25:14–26:16 | “2 billion in tax savings” as rationale for Epstein | | 26:16–27:53 | Boardroom fallout, Harris’s pushback, and speculation for Apollo's future | | 32:07–33:26 | Leadership succession: Mark Rowan vs. Joshua Harris | | 33:26–34:05 | Black’s $200M charity pledge: analysis and skepticism | | 39:45–41:22 | Major institutional investors withholding funds | | 46:16–47:28 | Harris, Rowan, and the power calculus for the company’s stability | | 47:28–47:46 | Closing thoughts on Leon Black’s fall from grace |

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Conclusion

In a hard-hitting and forthright episode, Bobby Capucci dissects the implosion of Leon Black’s career and what it reveals about broader structures of corruption, complicity, and inertia among the world’s elite. The resignation is presented not as an isolated incident, but a symptom of systemic rot that demands continued scrutiny, real accountability, and fundamental change. As Capucci insists, the chase for answers—and convictions—in the Epstein network is far from over.

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For more episodes and sources, see the description box of The Epstein Chronicles.

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Bobby Capucci]

Hey, what's up every?

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Welcome to the program.

[Bobby Capucci]

I had an absolutely epic day today. Now we had something occur in Las Vegas today that is not something that happens very often here. You know that stuff that falls from the sky around the world in most places, you know the water stuff, I think it's called rain. Yeah, we didn't have that for 250 plus days at one point, a measurable amount anyway. But some of that stuff was falling out of the sky today in the Las Vegas Valley and then up on the western edge of the city when you got to about 2,000ft in elevation, there was actually this white stuff falling out of the sky too. It's unbelievable. I have no idea what it is. I think it's called snow. Yeah, I think that's what it is. But all kidding aside, it's very rare that it snows in Las Vegas especially for a measurable amount. But on the west side of town, that's certainly what happened today. And up in the mountains where I was at, I was getting absolutely bombarded and I loved every second of it. I've been waiting for winter to creep up here in Nevada, in Las Vegas especially, and it has not come. It's always just an epic experience to go out and check out the desert in the winter when it's covered in snow. Just a different look, a whole different feel, a whole different place almost. So I'm very thankful that I was able to spend so many hours up there this morning. I'm just getting home a little while ago and it was just an epic adventure today. One for the, one for the record books. Any my record books. Anyway. So here I am now though and come to find out when I on my way home from the mountains, you know, taking a look at the, the

[News Reporter / Narrator]

old news and wouldn't you know it,

[Bobby Capucci]

Mr. Leon Black is stepping down as the CEO of Apollo Global now We knew the writing was on the wall. Right. We've talked about that for quite some time here on the podcast. And this seems to be the route that all of these people end up going. Just take a look at every single person that was intimately involved with Epstein. All of these business people that were very close to him, besides Jess Staley, now have had to step back from the companies they've built, from the positions that they were in. And I would think that somebody like Leon Black might also be facing some sort of civil, if not criminal, investigation as well as all of this begins to unfold. But this is always the first step, right? These guys deciding, oh, well, I've decided that I'm going to step down for my company, and this is all my own choosing. It's in the best interest. No, this. The best interest would have been you never palling around with Jeffrey Epstein or the fact that you were dishonest with how much money you really sent Jeffrey Epstein. And in fact, I'll go a step further. I'm of the opinion that it's even more money than we're going to discuss in this article. This is just what they could find or what this law firm could find. I suspect that it's a lot more money, and I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of that money is untraceable, running through shell companies and LLCs and all of the other different levers that these idiots use to continue to steal from society and continue to, you know, be involved in their decades long criminal sprees. These people are all, all definitely involved with Epstein. Okay? There's no disputing that. I mean, there was no disputing that when we had the first bit of evidence come out. But people did, right? Oh, well, these ties are tentative at best. You know, I mean, come on. Maybe they were just. Maybe they just were in business together. Yeah. Out of all of the people in the whole entire financial world. You mean to tell me that Leon. Don't call me Slim Shady Black couldn't find anybody else to get advice from besides the Coney island hot dog vendor, Jeffrey Epstein. Come on, man. As President Biden would say, come on, man, it's.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

It's.

[Bobby Capucci]

It's laughable at best. Right? So look, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that I know what their behind the scene business was, but I will tell you this. I'm pretty damn sure it had nothing to do with charity. I'm pretty damn sure it had nothing to do with anything besides these two idiots enriching Themselves, once again. And the sad part is all of these banks, like Deutsche Bank, JP Morgan, all of the rest of them were all in on the take. They were all in on the conversation and they just get slapped with some weak ass penalties. Institutional penalties by the way. Not even penalties slapped on the actual people involved. You know, the manager, the management. I'm not talking about the frontline people who don't have any power, the regular workers. You know, it's just like the frontline FBI agent, you know, he puts together a case or she puts together a case and they bring it to their superior and the superior through, throws it up the chain and it either, you know, gets legs or it gets stepped on. So it's never the frontline workers fault for the most part. I mean, I guess you could say they could quit and find something else to do. But my point is, the people who are in charge, all of these people who are in charge at these banks, the, the personal wealth financier folk, what's her name, like the lady who was lending Donald Trump all of that money from Deutsche bank, all of these people that are involved with these billionaires and these people who eventually get nailed for some sort of financial crime. If you're the one facilitating those transactions as their banker or their advisor or their go to person, then I think that you should have to answer for these crimes as well. You helped facilitate them. What makes, it makes these people or these institutions get off the hook. If I was helping you commit some sort of crime, you better damn well I'd be charged. So I want to see the same thing for these people there. They're not above the law. These banks aren't above the law. They think they are after the 2008, 2009 Great Recession and the collapse and none of them went to jail. They were all emboldened, right?

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Very brazen.

[Bobby Capucci]

It was real, real good and real nice for all of us to bail them out when they were absolutely wiped out by their own poor decision making. But now, what is it? 8 million new Americans or 15 million new Americans have slipped into poverty throughout this pandemic. And have any of these banks stood tall before the wagon to help these people out? Oh yeah.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

No.

[Bobby Capucci]

You could throw your, your rent onto the back end of your loan or they'd give you a balloon payment or some other nonsense. How about just a straight up rent freeze for a year? I, I know that would really kill some of these banks, right? And again, usually I'm, I'm not for that kind of thing. I don't you know, I'm not big on regulation for the most part in most sectors, but these banks have just proven themselves to be such scoundrels and such just evil people almost right with, with no, no moral compass whatsoever. Look, it's one thing to be a shark in the business world and make some money. It's another thing altogether to aid in a bet. Basically a sexual predator like Jeffrey Epstein and Lord knows who else. I mean, look at what the FinCEN files has, has knocked loose from the tree all the different scumbags that these banks are in bed with and you know, the Paradise Papers and the Panama Papers and we can go on and how many more examples are needed that these people don't have the best interest of the vast majority of us in their mind? Oh, they're more worried about, you know, consolidating power and enriching themselves more and more and more. I mean, Leon Black has a billion dollar art collection. What the do you need a billion dollar art collection for? I mean, okay, I get it, it's your money, cool, whatever. But when you're somebody like him who is obviously playing in shadowy areas of the world, hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, being involved in Lord knows what else, well, I don't have, you know, I don't feel the same way. I would if it was somebody who made their money on their own and was, you know, somebody who is a decent human being, then it's hey, whatever, you want to have a billion dollar art collection, great. But it's obvious that Leon Black is one of those so called elites who really does not care about nothing but increasing his own wealth and his own power. And even a scumball like Jeffrey Epstein who was set alight with radiation and fallout from his scandals, even somebody like that was acceptable if it meant a couple more dollars could be made or a door or two could be opened. But now Leon Black is facing the music. He's stepping down as of July. And you know, we'll see what we see, right? This is always the first step though, and I think it's a significant step when we're dealing with somebody as powerful as Leon Slim Shady Black.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

So let's jump into this article from

[Bobby Capucci]

the New York Times and see what the New York Times has to say about what happened in the Apollo Global boardroom. Headline, Apollo CEO to Step Down After

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Firm Finds More Payments to Jeffrey Epstein.

[Bobby Capucci]

Boy, isn't that nice? More payments, huh? So not only are you a scumbag for hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, you obviously lied about the extent of Your relationship with Epstein, the extent of your financial support of Epstein, just like I said here on the podcast, right? How long have I been telling you guys that? In my opinion, this dude's telling big, gigantic tall tales.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

You can tell.

[Bobby Capucci]

When you start reading between the lines, you read enough of these articles and you start to understand, the picture starts to really come into view. And it was very obvious to me that Leon Black was in with Jeffrey Epstein a lot deeper. $50 million is one thing, right? It's a lot of money. So when you start saying to yourself, all right, 50 million, how much more was he in to Epstein for? How much more did he have invested in Epstein? Because you know that number is going to balloon. And here we are with the New York Times, who, I got to tell you, very critical of a lot of times. But they've done a good job with this Leon Black story. They've been very, very on the hunt when it comes to Leon Black. And I think that that is a good thing when we're talking about this case. So the New York Times has continued their pursuit of this Leon Black angle, and they have not let him off the hook.

[SNWA Announcer]

And.

[Bobby Capucci]

And I think that's promising, right, Leon? You know, for people who aren't familiar with the financial world really, or who don't follow the financial sector. And I am no, you know, no genius about it either. Not somebody who follows it religiously either. But Leon Black is a very, very, very powerful man. I mean, him and his two partners built Apollo Global into just an absolute juggernaut, an absolute powerh in the financial sector. And for a guy like this to cede power in any way, it's a huge development. A huge development. And I believe that with the writing on the wall, we're going to see and hear a lot more damning stuff about Leon Black as all of this continues to mushroom, mushroom cloud out and drop radiation. Now, I don't think Leon Black was involved in abusing any of the girls. We have not heard anything like that. But financially, I mean, his ties with Epstein financially and how close they were personally as well, you see. Like the rest of the scumbags that were hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, Leon Black has not been truthful. So why should we believe him about anything he has to say if he can't be truthful about the very basics? This article was authored by Matthew Goldstein

[News Reporter / Narrator]

and Kathryn Rossman, the founders of Apollo Global Management, one of the world's biggest private equity firms, engaged in a brief power struggle this weekend over control of the firm. A Rift that opened up after an inquiry revealed that one founder, Apollo's chief executive and chairman, Leon Black, had paid more than $150 million to the convicted

[Bobby Capucci]

sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. $150 million for advice? Come on, give me a break. The Coney island hot dog vendor Jeffrey Epstein is not dropping knowledge that's worth $150 million. As Michael Corleone would say, he's not

[News Reporter / Narrator]

even a wartime consigliere.

[Bobby Capucci]

$150? What are you insane? Come on, who's buying that? What in the. What in the hell was that money really for? That's. That's the real question, right? If we want to get down to it, if we want to just push away all of the garnish and all of the side dishes and dig right into the meat of the situation, what in the hell was all of that money really for?

[News Reporter / Narrator]

On Monday, Mr. Black announced a plan to step down as chief executive this year. I have advised the Apollo board that I will retire as CEO on or

[Bobby Capucci]

before my 70th birthday in July and remain as chairman, he said in his statement. Oh, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? If you recall, don't you remember our good buddy Les Wexner thought he was going to remain chairman as well. Yeah, it's not gonna work out so well for him. And I have a funny feeling it's not going to work out so well for Mr. Black either. We talked about a second ago how there was a boardroom battle, basically. And the fact that it leaked out means it was a bigger blowout than even talked about in this article. You see, these are well kept secrets when it comes to these sorts of Wall street firms and companies. Things do not leave those bor rooms.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

It's like the Pentagon.

[Bobby Capucci]

People are real tight lipped. We're talking about a firm that has a $434 billion stake. These people are tight lipped. And the fact that it leaked that there was a struggle in that boardroom is just bad news for Leon Black. And the writing is on the wall, folks. And I will go as far to say I don't see him being the chairman of this company for much longer either. I think that he's going to get pushed out. It's only a matter of time and it's only a matter of when the other partners decide that it is chopping hour.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

The review ordered by the forms the firm's board, at Mr. Black's behest in October, after the New York Times detailed at least 75 million in payments, found that Mr. Black had paid Mr. Epstein 158 million in a five year period ending in 2017.

[Bobby Capucci]

So let me get this straight. Leon Black paid Jeffrey Epstein as much money as Deutsche bank was fined. So what in the hell could he possibly, possibly have been paying for that cost? As much as what the federal government fined Deutsche bank for money laundering and other scumbaggery tactics. $158 million. What in the f. Was that money for? Where did it go? There's no explanation for it. Oh, he'll say it was for services rendered, right? Oh, it was for advisory services, other fair taxes. Oh, yeah, this is exactly the guy that you want to hire. You're Leon Black, bro. You're in charge of everybody else's pensions. You're in charge of billions and billions and billions and hundreds of billions of dollars. And you're going to Jeffrey Epstein for personal advice about finances, you dumb dick. Why would I park one single dollar with you? So, yeah, probably a good idea to step down.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

He had also lent Mr. Epstein more than $30 million, only 10 million of which was paid back, the report found.

[Bobby Capucci]

Oh, yeah, only 10, you know, 30 million. But I'll pay you back 10 million. Oh, Leon, no big deal right here. A little 10 million. Why would Jeffrey Epstein need to borrow $30 million if he was paid $158 million for services rendered? Survey says the shit don't add up. And the deeper we get into this, the less any of it makes sense, especially on this paper chase, especially on this winding road we find ourselves on that is following the money. And folks, let me tell you what. There used to be a basketball game when I was growing up called NBA Jam. And when one of the players would hit a bunch of shots, it would

[News Reporter / Narrator]

say, he's heating up.

[Bobby Capucci]

And then the guy would hit another shot and the announcer in the game

[News Reporter / Narrator]

would go, he's on fire.

[Bobby Capucci]

That's how I feel right now. We're on fire with this financial portion of this case. We are turning all kinds of corners here, folks. And with people like Leon Black having to step down and face the music in his own boardroom, it only goes to show that we are on the correct path with this financial chase. 100%.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Mr. Black's payments effectively bankrolled the lifestyle of Mr. Epstein, who Mr. Black viewed as a confirmed bachelor with eclectic tastes.

[Bobby Capucci]

Oh, yeah, you know, I'm sure that's what they said about Hannibal Lecter, too, at all of the dinner parties.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

According to the report, in the Years after his 2008 guilty plea in Florida to A prostitution charge involving a teenage girl.

[Bobby Capucci]

Yeah, because, you know, Jeffrey Epstein's just

[News Reporter / Narrator]

the belle of the ball, isn't he? Just the greatest guy ever?

[Bobby Capucci]

The Coney Ey island hot dog vendor from Nathan's. Leon Black, you have no business managing anybody's money. And if I was one of your partners, forget a boardroom blowout, I would have been at your front porch and been like, you Talked shit at 8. I am on your porch at 9. This porch is now mine. Because this guy is absolutely toxic to the company. Everything about him is going to blow up in Apollo's face. If Apollo was smart, they would cut ties completely with him, and then they would try and get involved in, you know, setting up some sort of fund for survivors of. Of this sort of behavior or something. Because it's obvious that Leon Black was pouring oodles and oodles of money into Jeffrey Epstein. And my friends, it wasn't for $158 million worth of advice, in my opinion.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Also, Mr. Black believed that Mr. Epstein had served his time for that case and deserved a second chance.

[Bobby Capucci]

The report said, boy, isn't that nice?

[News Reporter / Narrator]

A second chance for a convicted sex

[Bobby Capucci]

offender who was trying to pay underage girls to have sex with him. Helluva guy. Certainly the kind of guy that deserves a second chance, said Richard Ramirez, the night stalker. I mean, are you kidding me right now? Second chance? How about no? How about buried under the jail chance? How about chemically castrated chance? Second chance bafangul. Are you kidding me right now? And this is the sort of slop we're supposed to accept from these people? The most powerful amongst us, the movers and the shakers. More like the moronic and the stupid.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

It found there was no evidence that Mr. Black had participated in any of Mr. Epstein's criminal activities or that Mr. Epstein had ever introduced Mr. Black to any underage girl.

[Bobby Capucci]

Now, I have never seen any evidence of that either, to be honest with you. And you know that we're not larping on this show. We're not playing fantasy here. This isn't an episode of Dungeons and Dragons. This isn't an episode of I want it to be True. This is the case as it happens and as it unfolds. And from where I'm sitting, Mr. Black doesn't have anything to answer for when it comes to the girls being abused, as in being personally responsible. Mr. Black, on the other hand, his crimes, if there are any here, which certainly seems like there might be, would be financial. And that's again, why RICO is so Crucial.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

But remember, Denise George has a SECO

[Bobby Capucci]

case going in the Virgin Islands.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

So that's a civil RICO case.

[Bobby Capucci]

And it affords her a lot of mobility in how she applies the law

[News Reporter / Narrator]

and how she pursues things.

[Bobby Capucci]

So Leon Black is. He's in serious jeopardy here, folks. And I don't just mean civilly. I think that if there is a real look at the. The financial portion of all of this, that there be no doubt that Leon Black and Jeffrey Epstein were involved in some shady financial dealings together.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

I mean, we've already talked about the art world.

[Bobby Capucci]

We've established how dark and how dirty the money is in the art world. And now we're talking about the man with the largest art collection in the world hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein. 158 million to Jeffrey Epstein. 30 million in a loan to Jeffrey Epstein. 10 million, which only 10 million was paid back. I mean, come on. All right, where there's smoke, there's fire. This dude is obviously a fellow traveler. At the very least,

[News Reporter / Narrator]

the details of their financial dealings. Mr. Epstein's advice was worth perhaps 2 billion in tax savings to Mr. Black, according to the report.

[Bobby Capucci]

All right, so perfect. Every one of those needs to be looked at stringently. They should all be subpoenaed, and they should all be entered as evidence in the case. And if Mr. Black cannot provide the, The, The. The receipts for this stuff, well, then he is in big trouble, because then the IRS can move in and audit him and go after him for tax evasion and all kinds of other wild shit. And folks, when they have probable cause and they get just a little bite into you, oh, they're going to try and take out a whole chunk. So Mr. Black talking about how Epstein's advice was worth. Was worth 2 billion in savings. My dude, you better have some receipts.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

The report created friction between Mr. Black and one of Apollo's other founders, Joshua Harris, according to three people briefed on the discussions.

[Bobby Capucci]

Again, that's insane. You never hear this kind of stuff leaking out of a boardroom. It just doesn't. Doesn't happen. Not a boardroom like this. And for it to be one of the other founders, a powerful dude like Joshua Harris. Yo, Leon Black is in for the fight of his life. He is not gonna remain chairman. I highly doubt this dude is going to remain chairman when all is said and done. He's already given up the CEO title, and he feels like, well, maybe if I sacrifice this title, I'll be able to hold on to some remnant of power. But in reality, what he has done now he's shown his belly to these dudes. And when you show your belly to the other wolf that you're fighting, you're bound to end up disemboweled. And speaking professionally, that's what's occurring here. Because let's not act like these guys aren't, you know, wolves. These guys who work in the financial district are most certainly wolves. And that's not a joke or hyperbole. They're in it to win it. And Leon Black is now a liability, and he can no longer lead the pack.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

In recent months, Apollo investors had begun openly questioning the financial ties between Mr. Black and Mr. Epstein, who died in 2019. One of the people said Mr. Harris believed that Mr. Black showed poor judgment in consorting with Mr. Epstein and that

[Bobby Capucci]

the new findings would further hurt Apollo's reputation. Yo, Joshua Harris knows the deal. He's basically saying, in a shorter version of what I was just talking about, Leon Black is now toxic. He is not somebody that is going to be around for much longer in any capacity at Blackstone. And I don't care if he created the company. Just take a look at Wexner, the longest running CEO in the business.

[Mint Mobile Commercial Voice]

Axed.

[Bobby Capucci]

See you later. And if anyone thinks that Leon Black is going to avoid this, he is not. You see, the people around him have encircled the wagons to protect him. He hasn't been given an endorsement by the board. In fact, that's where he's getting his most pushback. So when that happens, it is bad news for these people in the financial sector and these people who are involved in, you know, a boardroom atmosphere like this. It's basically a hostile takeover.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Apollo's board held a video conference on Sunday to approve the findings of the review, according to two people briefed on the discussions at the meeting. Mr. Black also announced his plans to step down this year and hand over the chief executive job to Mark Rowan, Apollo's third founder. Which I find a little bit weird

[Bobby Capucci]

because Mark Rowan was basically on, like, some sort of, like, sabbatical since last July, and now all of a sudden, he's sliding back into the CEO role. Why not Harris? There's a lot going on here, folks, behind the scenes, and if this is what's leaking out, you can only imagine the tea that's dripping within that boardroom.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Mr. Black intends to remain chairman of the New York Firm, which manages 455 billion for institutional investors, including pension plans

[Bobby Capucci]

and sovereign wealth firms funds.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

During a series of meetings on Sunday evening, including with individual board members, Mr. Harris raised objections to Mr. Black's timeline for stepping down, believing that the reputational threat was so serious that Mr. Black should relinquish the chief executive role without delay.

[Bobby Capucci]

The people said, yep, this is a hostile takeover we're talking about. Like, you know, I always reference the show Billions. This is some straight up Bobby Axlerod shit right here. Joshua Harris is making his move, folks. That's what's going on. They're trying to get rid of Leon Black. This is their way to do it. And they're going to shoehorn this issue and Harris especially, and he's going to make sure that Black is gone. You know, much money these guys have lost because of Black's piss poor decision making. Talk about a liability.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Mr. Harris also made his case to his co founders that night in discussions with Apollo's executive committee, which consists of the three of them. In the end, Mr. Harris Objections fell on deaf ears, said the people, who requested anonymity to discuss private deliberations.

[Bobby Capucci]

Now that goes to show you just how much power Leon Black has, right? People are still scared. People aren't going to let anything out. They're going to try and be as quiet as possible. But what, what will happen is people from Harris's camp and the people who are on the let's get rid of this knucklehead, meaning Leon Black, those are the people who are gonna leak little tidbits out and eventually the seas are going to get very, very choppy, as if they're not choppy enough. And Leon Black is gonna find out that he's navigating much, much too close to the reef and eventually he's gonna have to bail.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Mr. Rowan, who built Apollo's insurance business but had largely stepped away from the firm's day to day operations in recent years, will take over when Mr. Black steps down. And again, the Rowan situation.

[Bobby Capucci]

This is weird. I'm gonna have to dig a little bit deeper into this and go back

[News Reporter / Narrator]

and

[Bobby Capucci]

re up on how Rowan stepped down and why Rowan was stepping back and what the issues were. I remember there was some stuff there, but not enough to go deep right now. But it's just odd that of all the people that could have stepped into the leadership role, they're calling Rowan out of basic retirement. Why not Harris? Very interesting.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Mr. Black informed Apollo's clients of the succession plan and the findings of the

[Bobby Capucci]

review in a letter on Monday evening. Mr. Harris will continue in his current

[News Reporter / Narrator]

role as senior managing director, focused on the firm's financial performance and working closely with Mr. Rowan. According to the letter, the Contents of which were reviewed by the Times. The letter also informed clients of other proposed governance changes, including adding four more independent directors. It also laid out Mr. Black's plan to donate $200 million to charities that support gender equality and fight sex trafficking.

[Bobby Capucci]

Talk about COVID your ass. And that's exactly what he's doing here. If you really wanted to fight against sex trafficking and you really cared about gender equality, you never would have been cavorting with a convicted sex offender in the first place. So go ahead and donate the money, and hopefully it goes to a good use. But that doesn't absolve you of what's going on here. And that's certainly not going to make us shrug our shoulders and walk away and say, oh, well, he donated some money, so let's not dig any deeper. Let's just forget this all happened. Sorry, pal, that's not gonna cut it.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

The review conducted by the law firm Deckard began after the Times reported that Mr. Black had paid Mr. Epstein at least 75 million in the years after his 2008 case in Florida. Mr. Epstein killed himself, allegedly inside a Manhattan jail cell while facing federal sex trafficking charges, which were filed amid widespread scrutiny of the plea deal he had reached a decade earlier.

[Bobby Capucci]

Yeah, widespread scrutiny, all of that, right? Perfect.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

So now's the time to change it.

[Bobby Capucci]

We can fix it.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

The ball is in your court.

[Bobby Capucci]

11th Circuit Court of Appeals. Don't you see? All of this other shit that's happening around you, all of this other stuff going on in the case, doesn't that lead you to believe that this non prosecution agreement was garbage and should be done away with? I really Hope that the 11th Circuit Court does the right thing here.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Deckard's Review found that Mr. Epstein had provided legitimate advice.

[Bobby Capucci]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Legitimate advice again. This guy needs to go to Jeffrey Epstein to get advice about financial matters. So does that mean he was investing his client's money on Jeffrey Epstein's advice? If so, and I was one of those people whose money was being invested, I would be livid, okay? I'd be calling there and I'd be asking to speak to Joshua Harris directly and letting him know that I 100% had his back. And I want him to continue to pursue getting rid of Black right away. It's an absolute joke.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

On trust and estate planning, tax issues, and matters related to Mr. Black's extensive art collection and other subjects.

[Bobby Capucci]

So Jeffrey Epstein was an art appraiser as well. Man, this dude sure wore many hats, huh? Very talented, man. Very talented. Mr. Jeffrey Epstein, like Vanity Fair called him, right? Give me a break, okay? Where was the money really going? What were you paying for? Not for advice about art. Okay, I can give you some advice about art. You paid too much for it, all right? Sell your art collection and go feed the homeless, you epic idiot. You moron. You jack off.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Deckard said the value of the tax savings to Mr. Black was at least 1 billion and possibly as much as 2 billion. Though at the same time, the law firm noted, Mr. Epstein also would seek to take credit for good ideas, regardless of his level of involvement, which likely was intended to bolster his perceived value to Black.

[Bobby Capucci]

What they're trying to do is insulate Black here, like I said they would. Deckard's. Give me a break, okay? Give me a break. Oh, it was just. Jeffrey Epstein was this just absolute arch criminal, and he was just outsmarting everybody. He outsmarted the people who tell us every day how smart they are. So I guess from going forward, all of these idiots who told us how smart they are, we can just put a stamp on it now and file it as a done deal that they're not as smart as they thought they were, huh? Jeffrey Epstein obviously bamboozled all of them. That's what they'd have us believe, when in reality, we know that's not the case. We know they knew, eyes wide open, what was going on. They knew what sort of vermin they were in bed with when they got in bed with Jeffrey Epstein. And now when it comes time to pay the bill, nobody has any money. It would seem

[News Reporter / Narrator]

the relationship began to deteriorate in 2016, the report said, amid a payment dispute over tens of millions of dollars in fees, the two men did not communicate after 2018, according to the review.

[Bobby Capucci]

Oh, that's convenient.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

I'm sure Leon Black didn't hear anything

[Bobby Capucci]

in the pipeline about Jeffrey Epstein getting in trouble and started to distance himself. I'm sure he knew nothing about it.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

And it was just a coincidence that

[Bobby Capucci]

this is the timeline when they stopped talking, right? Give me a break, okay? Give me a break. Leon Black was trying to put some distance between himself and Jeffrey Epstein all the way back in 2018. He knew the deal. He knew the writing was on the wall, and he knew that Julie K. Brown and the Miami Herald had picked up the gauntlet and were pursuing a

[News Reporter / Narrator]

story about Epstein and his associations.

[Bobby Capucci]

So Leon Black knew the deal, and

[News Reporter / Narrator]

that, in my opinion, is why he

[Bobby Capucci]

broke off ties with Epstein. If he did.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Mr. Epstein did not invest in any Apollo managed funds, according to the report. But it found that his companies had bought more than 200,000 shares in the private equity firm's initial public offering and held that stake until at least September 2019, a month after Mr. Epstein died.

[Bobby Capucci]

Yeah, you know, they weren't really close or anything. 200,000 shares of Apollo Global. Just go ahead and pop onto the Internet and take a look at how much those shares are. And I'm sure when it went when, when Jeffrey Epstein got the shares, he got him at the homey hookup price too. Pretty odd for a guy that's, you know, not friends with Leon Black, isn't it? Pretty odd.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Many of Apollo's biggest clients, including major pension funds, charitable foundations and sovereign wealth funds, had been awaiting the results of the report. The $63 billion Pennsylvania Public School Employees Retirement System had said it would not invest any additional money with Apollo until the review was complete. CalPERS, the California public Employees Retirement System, one of Apollo's biggest clients, had said it expected its outside investment managers to follow the fund's own values. Other pension funds in Texas, Illinois and Ontario also said they would be watching the investigation closely.

[Bobby Capucci]

Now, we talked about that, we talked about how these pension funds are going to be running for the hills if there was any sort of bad news in this new report. And folks there certainly is. So I would not be shocked if there were pension funds ran for the hills. It's not going to be enough that Jeffrey, that Leon Black just steps down from CEO. He's gonna have to go in all capacities.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

In his three page letter to investors on Monday, Mr. Black acknowledged that heightened media scrutiny of Apollo has generated unwelcome attention for those investors. I personally regret any distraction that may have caused, he wrote. Mr. Black said Apollo had hired a law firm, Wilmerhell, to look into its reputational risk management practices and suggest improvements.

[Bobby Capucci]

Again, not good enough. An outside company. Yeah, hired by you. Here's an idea. Go and speak with the FBI under oath.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Apollo grew out of the ashes of Drexel Burnham Lambert, the investment bank that collapsed in 1990amid a trading trading investigation that sent, that sent since pardoned Michael Milk into prison.

[Bobby Capucci]

Yeah, one of those firms, folks. That's exactly what we're dealing with, the kind of people we're dealing with. So it shouldn't shock anybody that Leon Black and Jeffrey Epstein were so close. It shouldn't shock anybody at all.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Although Mr. Black started Apollo with his younger partners, Mr. Harris is 56 and Mr. Rowan 58. He has long been the face and the voice of the firm in building Apollo into a global financial powerhouse. Mr. Black has made himself and his co founders immensely rich. His personal fortune is estimated at more than 8 billion. And he owns a massive private art collection, including a version of Edvard Munch's the Scream, and is the chairman of the Museum of Modern Art. The Scream, huh? I'm sure that's what Leon Black's going

[Bobby Capucci]

to look like when he's staring at himself in the mirror and he realizes all of his power and all of his place within so called polite society is crumbling before him. I hope he stares at his picture, his fantastic piece of art, the Scream. And I hope that his face looks exactly the same.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

But when Apollo held its most recent earnings call late in October, there was already signs his dealings with Mr. Epstein were causing ripples both in the firm and among investors. In an unusual move, Mr. Black read a brief statement about the Epstein matter before handing over the meeting to Harris and Mr. Rowan.

[Bobby Capucci]

Look, there is a lot of weirdness that went on with Leon Black and

[News Reporter / Narrator]

the whole lead up to this.

[Bobby Capucci]

Plenty of lies and, and misdirection in my opinion.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

And all of the signs have led up to Mr. Black at some point having to leave the company. That is exactly what all the signs have led to.

[Bobby Capucci]

And that's exactly where we find ourselves now. I don't know if it's how long it's going to be before he is not the chairman anymore either, but it's coming, folks. Let me tell you, it is certainly coming. In my opinion, he's not going to remain as the chairman, not with all of this going on and certainly not with Joshua Harris looking to push him out. Still, Apollo has long specialized in buying

[News Reporter / Narrator]

up distressed companies and retooling them.

[Bobby Capucci]

But it also boasts large credit infrastructure

[News Reporter / Narrator]

and real estate businesses. Mr. Rowan was the driving force behind Apollo's thriving insurance business and its insurance

[Bobby Capucci]

subsidiary, Athene holding, which has fueled the

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Wall street firm's earnings in recent years. At one time, both Mr. Rowan and Mr. Harris were seen as the heir

[Bobby Capucci]

apparents to Mr. Black.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

But with Mr. Rowan's decision to pull

[Bobby Capucci]

back from day to day affairs, many

[News Reporter / Narrator]

on Wall street assumed the job would fall to Mr. Har, who has the run, who has run the nuts and bolts of Apollo's vast buyout operation.

[Bobby Capucci]

Pretty crazy, right? That they're trying to. That he's trying to bypass Harris here. And folks, I think that's something that needs to be focused on because Harris isn't going to sit down and just take that. Joshua Harris is going to fight back. He's not the kind of guy that's going to just be meek and be like, oh, okay, well, I'll just get steamrolled by Leon Black here. It's not going to happen. And I think Leon Black understands that, too, and knows that he is just acting on borrowed time at this point.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

Mr. Harris, who is an owner of the Philadelphia 76ers basketball team and the New Jersey Devils hockey team, said he would fully support Mr. Rowan as chief executive. I will focus on expanding our global search for investor returns, which is at the core of our success, he said in a statement. Of course, Rowan's going to say all the right things.

[Bobby Capucci]

He's. We're still talking about his money here, right? He doesn't want the firm to collapse. He doesn't want there to be all kinds of, you know, tumbling of the stock and people bailing with their money. That's not what's trying. What he's trying to do, what he's trying to do is force Black out and leverage the situation so that he can try and mitigate the fallout from all of this. And the only way to do that is that he understands, obviously, is for Black to go.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

As the only three members of Apollo's executive committee, the founders hold considerable sway over the company. As of now, the decision to name Mr. Rowan as Mr. Black's successor does not need approval of the company's board. And all three men who have much

[Bobby Capucci]

of their net worth tied up in

[News Reporter / Narrator]

the company have a vested interest in

[Bobby Capucci]

the stability the firm. And that's what I was just talking about. The end of the day, Harris isn't trying to wreck his own company, Right. What he's trying to do is get rid of Black to mitigate the damage and to try and keep people with their pensions and their money from bailing and leaving Apollo leaking from too many holes to fix. Now, will that occur? I don't know. But I will say this. If Leon Black is not completely forced out, then I highly doubt any of these pensions that have been waiting to dump money with Apollo are going to go through with it. I think they're going to take their money elsewhere. They don't want to be involved with anybody that is involved with Jeffrey Epstein. And until Apollo cuts ties with him

[News Reporter / Narrator]

completely, then I think they're going to

[Bobby Capucci]

continue to run into an Epstein problem. As for Leon Black, I guess he won't be doing any more rap songs in the near future, will he? Talk about a fall from grace and much deserved.

[News Reporter / Narrator]

If you'd like to contact me, you can do that.

[Bobby Capucci]

@bobbycapucciorotonmail.com that's B O B B Y C A P U C c [e-mail] you can also find me on that cesspool twitter at Bobby Capuci. All of the links that go with this episode can be found in the description box. Alright everybody, I will be back tomorrow and we will pick up where we left off. Have a great night.

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