Mega Edition: Lesley Groff and the Administrative Backbone of Epstein’s World (8/2/26)

Summary

---

The Epstein Chronicles – Mega Edition: Lesley Groff and the Administrative Backbone of Epstein’s World (8/2/26)

Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: August 2, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This “Mega Edition” delves deep into the role of Lesley Groff, Jeffrey Epstein’s most indispensable executive assistant. Through analysis of The Guardian’s investigative article by Sophie Elmhurst, host Bobby Capucci explores how Groff operated at the very center of Epstein’s operations for nearly two decades—managing his schedule, travel, guests (including “masseuses”), and maintaining the seamless machine that enabled Epstein’s criminal enterprise. Capucci scrutinizes Groff’s claims of ignorance, evaluates her moral and legal responsibility, and argues that, while she may not have directly abused anyone, her role was crucial to the continued functioning of Epstein’s network—and should be examined through a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) lens.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lesley Groff: Epstein’s “Brain” and Top Assistant (00:30–04:00)

• Groff’s Relationship with Epstein:
  • Hired in 2001 via a headhunter, Groff became the longest-serving and closest assistant to Epstein, even described by Epstein as “indispensable” and “an extension of my brain.”
• Nature of Her Work:
  • Managed his schedule, appointments (notably daily “massages”), travel, logistics, and communications with all manner of high-profile guests.
• Host’s RICO Perspective:
  • “If you’re part of the criminal enterprise, you’re liable for every single crime that the enterprise commits, even if you’re somebody that’s just involved in logistics.” (Host, 01:15)

2. Complicity: Legal vs. Moral (01:30–04:45)

• Legal Complicity: Requires knowledge and active participation.
• Moral Complicity: Lower bar—knowing and doing nothing could be enough.
• Host Critique: The Guardian author, according to Capucci, misses the broader “enterprise” aspect by focusing too narrowly on Groff's personal knowledge/mechanical role.

3. The Work Culture: Power Imbalances & Perks (06:30–12:00)

• Extreme Intimacy of the Role:
  • The assistant's job, he explains, is akin to a “work marriage,” involving absolute trust and immersion in the boss’s needs and secrets.
  • “These executive assistants, they know a lot. They’re there day to day. They see the people coming in, they see the people leaving, the phone calls, the emails, the meetings. They know all of it.” (Host, 09:50)
• Financial & Lifestyle Benefits:
  • Groff’s salary doubled—from $60,000 to $120,000 over her tenure, with bonuses, luxury holidays, cars, and beauty perks.
  • Host suggests these comforts were “the price of looking the other way.”

4. Evidence of Direct Involvement (13:43–22:00)

• Emails & Logistics:
  • Host cites emails in which Groff arranged meetings (“inviting girls,” travel arrangements, payments), often with intermediaries responding with lists of available “girls.”
  • “If the girls were coming from overseas, Groff organized their air travel, visas, and accommodation. That makes her part of it. Smack dab in the middle.” (Host, 28:50)
• Case Study – Juliet Bryant:
  • Survivor describes Groff’s friendliness on calls, but fundamental role in arranging appointments.
  • “She was the one that was setting up the meetings… leading them directly into the belly of the beast.” (Host, 29:43)
• Paper Trail:
  • Groff’s name returns 160,000 hits in Epstein’s files—no other staff member appears as often, reinforcing her central position.

5. Post-2008 Conviction: Willful Ignorance or Criminal Enabling? (35:55–41:00)

• Immunity & Continued Employment:
  • Groff and other assistants received immunity in Epstein’s infamous 2008 plea deal, as part of a broader shield for his “enterprise.”
  • Despite the world learning of Epstein’s crimes, Groff continued working for him until his 2019 arrest.
  • “It’s one thing to try and tell us that you had no idea who he was or what he was, and then it’s a whole ass other thing to keep working for him when that mask has already been ripped off.” (Host, 36:15)

6. Civil Suits, Victims’ Claims, and Legal Maneuvering (46:14–51:00)

• Numerous Allegations:
  • Civil suits allege Groff “directly facilitated” abuse, arranged payments (including for an underage girl’s abortion), flights, and logistics.
  • "...directly facilitated as well as conspired with Epstein and others...to make possible and otherwise facilitate the sexual offenses committed against minor plaintiff..." – Daniel Kaiser, attorney for Jennifer Araos (Host reading, 42:15)
• Legal Outcome:
  • Charges against Groff were dropped or settled as part of the Epstein Victims Compensation Program—survivors were barred from further legal action against employees.
• Host’s RICO Argument:
  • Capucci insists that the failure to charge RICO “was the point”—limiting the blast radius, preserving focus on Epstein as a “lone monster.”

7. The “Bystander” Defense and Social Accountability (53:00–58:00)

• Host Skeptical of Ignorance Defense:
  • “She was the person who arranged their appointments, booked their flights, and paid their money. They were all deeply involved.” (Host summarizing survivor Rinna Oh’s perspective, 56:15)
• Ethics vs. Law:
  • Even if not criminally liable, Groff and others shoulder serious moral responsibility.
  • Capucci argues that being a “cog” doesn’t absolve one—“all these people played their part…no different from the Mafia.”
• Personal Life Disconnect:
  • Groff maintained a “wholesome domestic life,” sending loving emails about her son, while enabling abuse, which the host finds particularly galling.

8. Congress & Ongoing Accountability (58:30–end)

• Upcoming Testimony:
  • Groff is called to testify before Congress (June 9, 2026), as part of a broader probe into how so many enablers stayed silent.
• Final Reflection:
  • Capucci remains cynical about the hope for true accountability: “I just don’t know how far they’re going to get…It’s going to be interesting to see what she has to say when she appears before Congress.”

---

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Groff’s critical position:
  • “No one was more regularly in contact with Epstein day to day. And that’s true. Epstein was very clear. Grof is his brain.” (Host, 10:35)
• On the reality of the assistant’s culpability:
  • "If she was booking rooms, if she was setting up flights...Congratulations, you’re a part of the investigation and you’re culpable.” (Host, 05:45)
• On moral blindness for perks:
  • “She was getting paid and she was willing to look the other way, in my opinion, because she was making a bunch of dough.” (Host, 11:25)
• On the legal system’s failures:
  • “The whole entire point was never to charge this as a criminal enterprise…they always wanted to piece it off, go after Epstein as a singular dude. That way they can have a nice storyline for us...” (Host, 41:30)
• On Groff’s defense and ongoing investigations:
  • “Leslie wishes she had never met Epstein and that she had resigned. Instead, her life has been turned upside down…” – Michael Bachner, Groff’s attorney (Host quoting, 57:44)
  • "Groff was named in several lawsuits…But in December of 2021, federal prosecutors had decided not to bring any charges against her. Because Epstein was dead. They couldn’t go any further." (Host, 46:14)
• On complicity and history:
  • “It’s possible to have everyday concerns, to care deeply for the people you love, and to willingly work for a terrible man who does terrible things.” (Host paraphrasing Sophie Elmhurst, 57:10)
• On congressional testimony:
  • “So it’s going to be interesting to see what she has to say when she makes her appearance before Congress...” (Host, 59:30)

---

Segment Breakdown with Timestamps

| Segment Topic | Time Stamp | |-----------------------------------------------|----------------------| | The RICO Lens & Groff’s Central Role | 00:30 – 06:00 | | Power Dynamics, Perks, and Work Culture | 06:30 – 13:00 | | Evidence from Communications & Survivor Voices| 13:43 – 29:00 | | Epstein’s Plea Deal & Continued Employment | 35:55 – 41:30 | | Civil Suits, Compensation, and Legal Shields | 46:14 – 51:00 | | The Morality of Enabling | 53:00 – 57:50 | | Congressional Implications & Final Thoughts | 58:30 – end |

---

Tone & Takeaways

Capucci’s tone is direct, skeptical, and at times caustically critical—especially of the “I didn’t know” defense employed by Groff and others around Epstein. He maintains an unwavering belief that everyone within Epstein’s inner organization, however mundane their tasks, bears varying degrees of responsibility. The host frames the whole story as an indictment of willful ignorance propped up by money, power, and legal maneuvering, making the case that the real story is one of collective enabling, not solitary villainy.

---

Summary:
This episode provides a comprehensive, evidence-rich narrative of Lesley Groff’s work for Epstein—probing the moral and legal boundaries of complicity in systemic abuse. Key takeaways focus on Groff’s unique proximity and value to Epstein, the perks she received, the incriminating logistics she handled, and the larger failures of accountability in a story that still cries out for justice at the enterprise level.

---

Transcript

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest here. And I have discovered a fun new escape from the daily grind. Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has hundreds of social casino style games. It's all free to play anytime, anywhere with daily bonuses. So get to chumbacasino.com no purchase necessary.

[Chumba Casino / Hotels.com / Advertisement Announcer]

VGW prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 21/ need a getaway? Hotels.com has the expert hookup on last minute deals. Members save 20% or more. So you can score a trip that's big on vibes, but light on the wallet. Don't just dream it. Check in. Book now on the hotels.com app.

[Podcast Host / Epstein Chronicles Narrator]

What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. When it comes to Jeffrey Epstein, nobody was closer to him, as far as assistants go, than Leslie Groff. And she was somebody that Jeffrey Epstein said was indispensable to him. He even called her his brain. Now, for her part, Leslie Groff says she had no idea what Jeffrey Epstein was up to and that she was only somebody that was involved in logistics, answering the phone, setting the schedule, things like that. And look, she has not been accused of any kind of abuse. Leslie Groff has not been accused of any of that. But does that mean she had nothing to do with what Epstein was up to? Does that mean she's innocent? Not my opinion. Now remember, I look at this case through a RICO lens. I'm not looking at it as one person doing this or one person doing that. It's all connected. So if you're part of the criminal enterprise, you're liable for every single crime that the enterprise commits, even if you're somebody that's just involved in logistics. And in my opinion, the whole lot of these people, from the pilots on down, were part of a criminal enterprise. So today we have an article from the Guardian which is pretty long, so we're gonna eat it up in a couple of pieces. But it digs deep into Leslie Groff and her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. So with that said, let's just dive right in. This article was published by the Guardian and the headline Seriously the Best Boss Ever Inside the World of of Jeffrey Epstein's Assistant. This article was authored by Sophie Elmhurst. Leslie Groff, longtime executive assistant to Jeffrey Epstein, has always claimed that she knew nothing of his crimes. Complicity requires knowledge. To be legally complicit in a crime, you have to know you're helping to commit it. To be morally complicit, the bar is lower. You don't even have to play an active part to have knowledge of the crime and do nothing is is enough. But how do we know what someone knows? And you see right away, Ms. Elmhurst is not looking at it through the right lens. This should be a RICO lens. And that's because all these crimes were committed at the behest of Jeffrey Epstein. He was the head of the organization. No different than El Chapo. No different than John Gotti. Same, different crimes. I think of all the times I've closed my eyes or shut down a thought or turned away from something wrong, large or small, A planet level ecological harm or a sub fiver theft in the supermarket right in front of me. Surely, I say to myself, someone else will do something. It's not my fault or my responsibility. I'm too inconsequential to make a difference here. Somewhere in the course of those thoughts, I decide not to let my knowledge of what I've seen or heard or inferred take up residence in my mind. In this way, over time, I found that it's much easier to live with what I know if I do not admit what I know, even to myself. Kind of a weird analogy, no? You're talking about people that are stealing things from a store, a corporation, and you not getting involved. And comparing that to what was going on with Leslie Groff, that seems a bit weird. Leslie Groff never planned to be an assistant. After college at the University of Texas in Dallas, she moved to New Jersey with her first husband, worked for an office Supply Co. For nine years, divorced, worked as a salesperson at the department store in Nordstrom, met her second husband at a triathlon, and then decided she wanted to try to find work as an events planner on Wall Street. In 2001, a headhunter found a resume on Monster, a jobs listing site, and and set up Groff, then in her mid-30s, with an interview to be an assistant to a wealthy financier. And by 2001, Epstein was already abusing people. Remember, this man was already prolific. For the interview, Groff went to Epstein's house on the four on the fourth floor of 457 Madison Avenue, part of the Villard Houses, A set of elegant 19th century brownstone residences built around the courtyard, also home to a luxury hotel. These people belong in the gilded age, not amongst us. Bunch of weirdos. She met with Glenn, Maxwell and Epstein, whose phone kept ringing during the interview. He would talk briefly, then hang up, and Grof came away with the impression of a vibrant, hectic workplace. And look, I'm sure the first interview, she didn't know what Epstein was But she was with Epstein for all those years. Heard all the stories, saw all those girls coming in and out, had no idea. Okay, let's give her the benefit of the doubt. How does that explain all of the logistics that she set up though, for all the girls that were trafficked? I mean, if she was booking rooms, if she was setting up flights, doing any of that. Congratulations, you're a part of the investigation and you're culpable. Once she got the job, Groff was given her own office and worked alongside Epstein's team of assistants, lawyers and a trader who together managed his money and his life. Some years later, she moved to work from his home, a seven story townhouse on East 71st street near Fifth Avenue, where a life size sculpture of a woman in a white wedding dress clutching a rope hung in the central hallway. Ah, nothing weird there. Normal stuff, right? Just normal rich people. Groff was in charge of Epstein's calendar, making his appointments and and setting up his calls. When she started the job, Maxwell had told her that Epstein had a massage every day. Epstein would call Grof in the morning, order her to call X and see if she can do a massage at 4, and then continue to call her every 15 minutes until it was fixed. If Grof was unable to get X, he'd tell her to call Y. In response to the questions about these appointments, her lawyer, Michael Bachner wrote, during her employment, Leslie never witnessed or was told of anything illegal related to those massages. Maybe the next mob guy who gets nailed could say the same thing. Yo, I had no idea. I was just making phone calls and driving the car. Grof worked for Epstein for 18 years, from 2001 until his arrest in July of 2019. But she had no idea, huh? After the first arrest, after all the allegations, after what everybody was saying after, after Virginia came out, Leslie Groff was none the wiser. Had no idea what Epstein was. If you want to believe that, you go right ahead. Me, I don't believe that for a second. Since Epstein's death in August 2019, Gro has remained almost invisible and spoken only through her lawyers. Recent photographs have shown her going to Pilates or walking her dog near her home in Connecticut. Off duty and low key. Compared to the royals, politicians, billionaires and professors who have featured in the Epstein files, Groff is low status, a non celebrity with no public reputation to lose. But when you search for her name in the files, you receive more than 160000 results. More than anyone else. I've read perhaps 10,000 of these a fraction no one was more regularly in contact with Epstein day to day. And that's true. Epstein was very clear. Grof is his brain. He said that how many times throughout the years? Well, he thought he was kidding. Dude had a meltdown when she had to go out for paternity leave. After the release of the Epstein files, the U.S. congress Committee on Oversight and Government Reform decided to review the possible mismanagement of of the federal government's investigation into Epstein and Maxwell's crimes. On March 3, 2026, they sent a letter to Groff asking her to attend an interview in Washington on June 9th. The committee believes you have information that will assist in its investigation. They believe, in other words, that Groff knows more than she has ever said that she knows. Well, that's because in my opinion, she does. And I think it's damning that she went back to work for the dude even after his first arrest. How can you say you have no idea what he was or what he was doing when he's already been arrested on similar charges? So the whole I had no idea thing really just doesn't hit. To be a good executive assistant is an act of immersion. The job requires the management of minutia. Dates, times, appointments, travels, meals, gifts, emails, calls. But it also requires the anticipation of these things to know what's desired before it's desired. To do this, the assistant must be familiar with the inside of their boss's mind. In a healthy arrangement, the relationship is close but boundaried. She almost always she can tell her boss what she thinks or say no. Victoria Robin, the founder of the executive assistance organization, described it as kind of a work marriage. No other professional relationship, she told me, requires the same degree of trust or intimacy. Her old boss used to tell her that she knew more about him than his wife and could ruin him in five minutes. And that is pretty true and pretty common. These executive assistants, they know a lot. They're the ones that are there day to day. They see the people coming in, they see the people leaving. They know the phone calls, the emails, the meetings. They know all of it. While an assistant might have the power that comes from knowledge, it's not a marriage of equals. If you're committed, you sell your soul to that person, said Riben. In a less professional dynamic, the assistant is so crucial to her boss daily existence and so completely in his power that she becomes a voiceless functionary. Rowena Chu, briefly an assistant to Harvey Weinstein, compared her role to that of a butler in Downtown Abbey, where the chief requirement were to do as you were told and remain invisible. Chu, who says she was sexually assaulted by Weinstein, was often told she could be replaced in an hour. She would hear Weinstein on the phone bawling out an A list director and think, if he can do that to them, what can he do to me? She was, she said, a gnat on Nelefin. And look, there's no doubt about that. A lot of these people, like Harvey Weinstein, are abusive. But that wasn't the case with Leslie Groff. She wasn't being abused by Jeffrey Epstein. There is zero reports of him sexually assaulting her or anything close to that. She was there because she was getting paid and she was willing to look the other way, in my opinion, because she was making a bunch of dough. That's what it really boils down to.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest here and if you're looking for some serious fun, head over to chumbaccasino.com@chumba casino. You can play all your favorite social casino style games for free, anytime, anywhere. It's the most fun you can have on your phone or computer.

[Chumba Casino / Hotels.com / Advertisement Announcer]

No purchase necessary. BGW Group void we're prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 21 +.

[4 Patriots Advertisement Announcer]

Your whole neighborhood goes black in seconds except your house. The Patriot Power Generator 2200X from 4 Patriots keeps your lights on when the grid goes down. It's the most powerful generator 4patriots has ever built. Only 4patriots gives you backup power without gas fumes or a loud engine. Just lights, a cold fridge and peace of mind when the power fails. Right now, save $500 and get two solar panels free. That means you can recharge twice as fast, but only while supplies last. Keep your lights on, your food cold and your family calm when the grid goes down. Don't wait for the next blackout. Visit four patriots.com today. That's the number four P A T R I-O-Com and see why families trust. Four patriots to stay ready.

[Jace Medical Advertisement Announcer]

Your child wakes up in the middle of the night with a high fever and the pharmacy is closed. You could wait agonizing hours just to get a doctor's appointment. Or you could prepare ahead of time with Jace Medical. Jace makes it simple for families to stay ready with kits like the Jace Case ready to go supplies of prescription antibiotics and essential medications for travel emergencies or everyday life. With Jace, you're investing in more than health. You're investing in true peace of mind, knowing you're prepared for the unexpected. And it's vast, it's affordable, and it could be life saving. Just go to Jace.com, answer a few quick questions and a licensed doctor reviews your information and ships your medications straight to your door. Keep yourself and your loved ones prepared no matter what comes [e-mail]

[Podcast Host / Epstein Chronicles Narrator]

over the years, Epstein had several assistants, but Grof was the most senior and longest serving. As I read her emails, I was initially struck by the extent to which she marshaled his time and his movements or acted as his gatekeeper, but in reality she was more like a well trained avatar. In a 2005 New York Times article about executive assistants on Wall street in which both Grof and Epstein were interviewed, Epstein described his assistant as an extension of my brain and a social prosthesis. Not as separate individuals but but as part of his mind and his body. And that's how he looked at her. She was indispensable to Jeffrey Epstein. Groff's task was to ensure that Epstein's life ran according to his precise preference. Jeffries requested that he please not be disturbed while in the gym working out, even if a guest is here waiting. She emailed her colleagues in 2012 when Jeffrey is waiting for something and you know the urgency with a package, you should give it to him right away if at all possible. She wrote about a two hour delay in the delivery of some pastries in 2015 he called me asking where his cannolis are. On any given day, Grof would move from having a towel rail fixed. Can we please get someone on top of this? To working out how to respond to Epstein's allergic reaction. It's apparent that his face is not right to ensuring Steve Bannon had received Epstein's gif un an Apple watch. Can you confirm Steve has his watch? I need to get back to Jeffrey. Sorry for being such a pain. And look, a lot of her tasks were mundane. There is zero doubt about it and I don't put as much responsibility on her as someone like Sarah Kellen Vickers. But just because you answered the phone and did logistics doesn't mean that you're not culpable. You are. She was good at her job, quick, polite and relentlessly positive, even when her task tended towards the absurd, as when she had to deal with two monster vacuum pack steaks left behind on Epstein's plane, or when she was trying to figure out how to transport three tubs of Oreo ice cream, J's favorite, from New York to another of his properties without it melting. She wrote emails bursting with exclamation marks, emoticons, particularly the smiling wink and expressions of elation. Tremendous. Super. Terrific. When Jonathan Farkas, a New York businessman, told her that her efficiency was the envy of the German army, Grof sent the email to her husband. Like, think I should forward to Je. Ike replied that she should save it in her files in case she ever needed another job. Epstein knew Grof was competent, but his emails rarely recognized her efforts beyond an occasional curt thanks. Instead, he showed his appreciation with money. In the New York Times interview, he revealed that when Groff announced she was pregnant in 2004, he offered to pay for a nanny and bought her a car to ease her commute from Connecticut. There's no way I could lose Leslie to motherhood, he said. According to a payroll document, she also doubled her salary from $60,000 in 2004 to 120,000 in 2025. There were perks. In 2014, Epstein emailed Grof, offering a Florida holiday my style, please. Five star hotel, the whole works. Groff's husband, Ike, forwarded the email to someone else. Seriously, the best boss ever. Oh yeah, Ask those girls that were getting abused how great he On Valentine's Day in 2018, Epstein bought her and some other assistants glam Squad appointments where stylists would come to their home to do their hair and makeup. Too sweet, wrote Groff. Once in 2015, she got to tour his private plane, ride on his helicopter, and take a boat to his private Caribbean Island, Little St. James, before staying at a luxury hotel. The heli was one of the best parts, she wrote in a group email to her family, who were duly impressed. I didn't know he had a helicopter too. Wow, said one. Not a boring job, wrote Groff's mother. Yeah, I would say so. Now let me ask you, is all of that worth what she's dealing with now? Not my opinion. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap this one up right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off, talking about Leslie Groff once again. This article was published by the Guardian, and the author is Sophie Elmhurst. By 2015, Groff was earning $140,000 a year and had been given several bonuses, the Florida trip, and approval to buy a new car worth up to $45,000. She was able to buy, rebuild, and decorate a white clapboard house in the town of New Canyon, Connecticut. Now estimated to be worth around $5 million. Yeah. She had nothing to do with Epstein though, right? She didn't enrich herself from ill gotten gains or anything like that. Everything's on the up and up, right? She made all that money on her own, though. Her emails also reveal she and Ike had to take out a large construction loan from the bank to do the work. In 2016, she emailed Ike to tell him her salary had gone up to 150,000 plus a $7,500 bonus check. Not bad. And mentioned the loan she was going to take out with Epstein. Makes me happy. So really what it comes down to is she's willing to turn a blind eye because she's benefiting so greatly. Now, of course, the problem is proving that legally and the way to do that would have been rico. But since they didn't do that, it's going to be rough. And that, my friends, has always been part of the bigger problem. Them controlling this story and controlling the blast radius. Grof seemed to sense limits to Epstein's generosity. He, he was not a cash cow, or at least the money he gave was on his terms. Ahead of a family mini break in New York, Ike suggested she asked Epstein to get them tickets for a show. The cost would mean nothing to Epstein, but Groff felt she couldn't justify asking for $500 Hamilton seats and wondered if she could swing dear Evan Hansen instead. When Groff got her raised to $140,000 in 2014, Ike, who worked for Tourmaline Partners, a trading firm, joked that he could retire. Ah, please don't do that, Grof replied. She was well paid, but always aware that she lived in a different economic reality to her boss. In her FBI interview, Grof recalled seeing an invoice of a carpet for his aeroplane that amounted to more than she earned in a year. Well, yeah, you're working for a guy that has billions. Oh, I know. They'll say only had 500 million. Yeah, that you could track. Do you really think a guy like Jeffrey Epstein didn't have any kind of secret backup accounts all over the damn world? In my opinion, he most certainly did. Croft's emails were full of celebrities and their staff. There was Amanda, who assisted the then Duchess of York, Bill Gates, Lauren, Larry Summers, Julie, Woody Allen's Catherine and Ginny. She had to check the timing of a meeting with Naomi Campbell, who signed off her emails. Love and Light. And it was Groff's job to figure out which car the Duke should be picked up in and what Woody Allen And Soon Yi would like for dinner, Woody would like chicken dumplings with cilantro piri piri chicken wings. I would love grilled asparagus gome, whatever the that is eggplant chisto miso honey and shrimp tempura and seasoned vegetables, confirmed Soon Yi, whose emails from her phone were accompanied by the red balloon emoji. Given each an error of minor celebration. And it kind of gives you an inside look right at just how connected Epstein was. And all these people that previously told us that they didn't know him intimately have been outed by the emails. Privy to so much detail. The terms of Grof's job were strict. She told the FBI that when she was hired by Epstein, she had to sign a non disclosure agreement. If she ever spoke about anything she learned from people he had worked with, she would have to pay a hundred thousand dollars. Early on, Maxwell had told her she was here to work, not to chat or fraternize with anyone she met through her job, including Epstein. If, for example, she bought tickets for Epstein to see a movie, she knew not to ask him if he enjoyed the movie the next day. Yo, I can never work for somebody like that. I'm sorry the money is not enough. Imagine having a boss where you can't even ask him if he enjoyed his movie. Absurd. Groff was expected to maintain the facade that she knew nothing to no one. In her first month on the job, she told the FBI she was invited to a party through work and went along with her husband, disobeying the non fraternizing rule. Epstein found out and torched her. The following Monday, he told her he was going to fire her, put her on a probation. Grof never did anything like it again. Mistakes, she learned, were not tolerated. And look, I understand that people have bills, they have responsibilities, families, kids, the whole thing. But at what point do you say enough is enough? And at what point do you realize that the person you're working for is an absolute piece of not once Grof told the FBI did she have normal conversations with Epstein. Instead, he would issue one line decisions, yes, no, pay it burgers. And Groff would reply with a quick chirpy confirmation will do. Epstein knew that he could rely on her to do anything fast and well. When an employee offered a litany of excuses as to why they'd fail to ship a painting from Paris to New York, Epstein replied with a single line, give the job to Leslie. Thanks. When Leslie went on holiday, she reassured Epstein that she would have her BlackBerry with her.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it is Ryan Seacrest. Here. If you love great games and a little extra excitement to your day, I got something fun for you. Shamba Casino and I have teamed up to create an exclusive online social casino game. It's called Ryan Seacrest 10K Ways. It's fun and free to play, just like all your favorites from Chumba Casino. And Every spin brings 10,000 ways to keep the good times going. Check it out and play for free [e-mail] no purchase necessary VGW Group void

[Chumba Casino / Hotels.com / Advertisement Announcer]

We're prohibited by law. CTS and CS21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Podcast Host / Epstein Chronicles Narrator]

Well, that's pretty common. Honestly, when I was in the corporate rat race, when I got a vacation, which was very rare, I had three phones with me, I had two work phones, and then I had my personal cell phone and I hated every minute of it. And now that I'm not beholden to that stupid ass phone, I very rarely ever answer it. So I understand that part of it. I hated it so much. It was like, attached to me. And if you didn't answer a call or you missed a call, forget it. He replied by instructing her where she needed to be on the date of her return. 71st on the 20th, meaning his house. Groff, of course. I can't wait. Over time, I began to recognize the tone of Groff's emails to Epstein. They reminded me of the kinds of messages I sent in my first jobs at the lowest level of institutions, where I still naively thought the good behavior would be noticed and rewarded. It's the tone of service, of knowing your place and being eager to please. Often used by junior women to senior men. It's also the tone of a perfectionist, of someone trying to create an impression of flawlessness, where everything is possible and nothing is too much. You'll do all that is asked of you and more, running as consistently and indefeatingly as a machine. And crucially, you will never say no. Well, yeah, that's pretty much the job, right? I mean, I don't understand what she means. If you're a junior manager of any sort, you're going to be jumping through hoops. And I think the most thankless job in the whole entire world is middle management. You get all the blame, all the responsibility, half the pay, and all the stress. The colleague who failed to ship the painting confided in Groff about Epstein. It's been tough with him. I'll bet, replied groff sympathetically. In 2014, Grof exchanged emails with a colleague who had just been on the receiving end of an Epstein email which was worse than ever. Swearing and telling me I'm a disgrace. He literally has never been this bad, which is saying a lot. Grof tried to offer some support, then suggested that the person take the bull by the horns and go. They were grateful for her encouragement. It really helps. Grof for some reason never followed her own advice. For some reason? How about financial reasons? That's why she didn't follow her own advice. The last thing she wanted to do was lose out on that money. And we all know people who do some wild for some dough, sell crack to their family, whatever money makes people do. All kinds of wild. Groff's emails inviting girls, her word to see Epstein all followed a particular pattern. Often the arrangement involved a negotiation a around the timing of their job or classes in college. Tuesday I'm at school till 10. We have orchestra rehearsal for a concert on Friday. Groff would also receive emails from intermediaries on behalf of other girls. She can skip some classes and leave school at 1pm If Jeffrey wants her at 3:30, she can make it. Grof replied. Okay, all good to know. I'll let JE decide. Thanks. This is where Groff has a problem. These kids, these people, some of them were kids were being managed by Groff. She was the one that was setting up the meetings. She's the one that's emailing them and leading them directly into the belly of the beast. That, my friends, is being part of the criminal enterprise. And you can say you didn't know, but being ignorant of a crime doesn't mean that you're innocent of it. Sometimes Groff struggled to find someone Epstein had requested. Jeffrey thinks I should have her info, but I can't find any. Whose friend is she? Do you know? Sometimes she would try to predict her boss's requirements. What does JE want to see in Paris? Is that redacted? Do one of you know? Her colleagues replied, I think possible redacted. We always see her in Paris. Once she spent the day emailing back and forth with someone in Russia trying to fix a time for her to see Epstein before realizing that he had meant a different person with the same name. So no worries. Talk to you next week. And here's a big problem for Groff. If the girls were coming from overseas, Groff organized their air travel visas and accommodation. That makes her part of it. Smack dab in the middle. Juliet Bryant told me a survivor who had met Epstein in South Africa and then spent two years in New York as after Epstein had promised her a modeling career. Epstein would Never contact Brian directly. But Groff would ring often, say, hi, Juliet, it's Leslie. Then put Epstein on the line. She seemed friendly, said Bryant, but they never spoke much more than the top of the tail of a call. She only met Groff once. Surely, Brian thought Groff must have been aware that something wasn't right. If I've been working in that office, I. I'd have found it odd, she said, with all the young girls coming and going. Look 100%. And I agree with Juliet. But how do we prove that? Remember, it's not what we know, it's what we can prove. And I think a lot of people have forgotten that. So the only way to get to the bottom of it, the only way to prove it, is to charge all of these people with rico. Then that gives the government the tools they need to really dig into their lives. But unfortunately, that's not going to happen. The rotating cast of girls generated another layer of administration. Grof returned their lost property. Please check for a green bikini, kind of jungle print in one of the drawers. The girl who was there last thinks she left it in the drawer. She arranged their payments in cash, usually between 500 and 1,001, specifically for time spent on the island. She would arrange appointments for them at his preferred New York dentist, Thomas Magnani, and hair salon Frederick Fakai, and sometimes for herself. In 2018, Groff had a haircut, highlights, manicure, and eyebrow wax worth $825. And if you're wondering why she didn't want to leave Epstein, there it is. Who wants to give up those perks? 825 bucks? I mean, come on, it's like rent. Once, when Epstein's accountants questioned the payment to a cosmetic vein specialist and suggested a name of who the treatment should have been for, Grof responded, gosh, I really don't know. She seems too young for that. Well, that's damning. But sure, Grof had no idea. Leslie Grof just, you know, somebody at work doing her job. No idea the evil she's working with. And for. Does anyone really believe that Grof was not the only assistant to arrange these appointments? Rinna. Oh, an Epstein survivor told me that different secretaries communicated with certain girls, but they always followed the same script. Mr. Epstein would like to make an appointment to see you. He's going to be in New York on such and such dates. Are you available to see him at 2pm then? I would have to confirm. And then she would write it in the calendar. Grof's emails to girls on Epstein's behalf were typically formal and careful in their language and brighten tone. But the reply she received could be unpredictable. On May 5, 2014, an email arrived from a girl who told her that her friend would not be available to see Jeffrey on May 8th. But I can bring another girl if Jeffrey want to let me know. Grof sent the email to Epstein below from from redacted. Please advise literally setting it up, literally culpable, at least in my opinion. And I think the evidence is right here. The emails, that paper trail of emails that lead directly back to Leslie Groff setting up these girls with Jeffrey Epstein. That's a big problem, or should be if we had a real investigation. Sometimes the emails came with photographs attached. On April 8, 2012, someone emailed apologizing for a delay and sent pictures of two friends, both Russians. No worries, thanks, replied Grof. On May 1, 2012, a person emailed to check if Grof had received a new photo. Grof hadn't, so they sent it again with the subject line redacted from Ukraine. Darling, here's the picture of a new girl. She She's 21, very sweet and lovely. Let me know you received them, please. I took them from her portfolio so maybe the quality is not so good, but I think you can still see everything. Grof sent the email to Epstein without comment. And look, people will say she was of age, that's true, but does that mean she couldn't be trafficked? I think people need to understand that even if you're an adult, you can be manipulated and and trafficked. Now, it's a lot harder to prove without a doubt, but to act like it can't happen or doesn't happen is completely ridiculous. Groff also fielded the girl's questions and concerns. After arranging an appointment with a girl and her friend to see Epstein on the evening of 21st October 2011, she received the following email from the girl at 3:45pm that day. Hey Leslie, my friend just got back and I spoke to her about tonight. She has never done anything of this sort before and is a little nervous about the whole thing. I don't know what Jeffrey has planned for tonight, but is it okay if they just met this time? She would really feel more comfortable that way. If Jeffrey would rather not, it's okay, let me know. Groff responded. He says of course you can just stop by. So what exactly did Leslie Groff think was going down? Did she think they were coming over to talk about the stock market or get advice on their tax planning, like Leon Black? Because I have to tell you, the optics here are not good. And when it comes to Leslie Grof and her narrative of not knowing, I find that harder to believe by the day. Because when you look at the emails and you look at all of the evidence that has been produced and what everybody has said about who's invited them to Epstein's house, who managed it, in my opinion, I don't know, is not good enough. And hopefully when Leslie Groff is speaking in front of Congress, they drill down a little bit and try to get to the bottom of it. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up this episode right here, and in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right back to the article about Leslie Groff that was published in the Guardian. And the author is Sophie Elmhurst.

[Bubba Wallace]

Bubba Wallace here from 2311 Racing. You know what's slower than a pace car waiting at the car wash? That's when I fire up Chumba Casino. It turns those slow minutes into fast fun. With new games every week, you'll never get bored. Next time you're stuck in the slow lane, speed up with Chumba. Play [e-mail] let's Chumba.

[Chumba Casino / Hotels.com / Advertisement Announcer]

Sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary VGW Group void where prohibited by law 21 Terms and Conditions apply.

[Podcast Host / Epstein Chronicles Narrator]

The first time that Groff's name appeared in legal documents connected Epstein's crimes was in the secret plea deal he made with the state attorney's office in South Florida. In return for federal immunity and immunity for various assistants, including Groff, Epstein agreed to plead guilty in 2008-2 low level state charges, which included the charge of solicitation of minors to engage in prostitution. And she still kept working for him after all that. So please spare me the nonsense. It's one thing to try and tell us that you had no idea who he was or what he was, and then it's a whole ass other thing to keep working for him when that mask has already been ripped off. And I think that's the biggest problem for people like Groff, Kellen Vickers, and Adriana Ross. I mean, it's a big deal. When I asked Groff's lawyer, Michael Bauchner, about her knowledge of the 2008 conviction, he replied, After Epstein's arrest in 2008, he continuously lied to Leslie and other members of the staff insisting that he had been blackmailed and set up. He angrily said that the allegations against him were simply false and he had no idea that that the prostitute he had contact with was a minor. In Leslie's mind, that was the reason that he was treated so leniently by law enforcement before and after he was sentenced. Oh, well, that is pretty convenient, huh? And have you noticed everybody's just blaming Epstein now that he's dead. They have no problem pointing the finger at Epstein when he was alive, though. Nobody said, nobody had the courage to come forward then, but now, well, I don't want to get in trouble. So it was him, not me. And it's the same kind of defense that Sarah Kellen Vickers is trying to use. Over the subsequent years, Groff has continued to work for Epstein. She was made aware of the controversy around the plea deal's terms. On March 25, 2011, her husband Ike emailed her a link to a story in the Daily Beast, Jeffrey Epstein, how the hedge fund mogul pedophile got off easy. Groff replied, yeah, he told me yesterday this would be in the Daily Beast. And one thing I'll say about the Daily Beast is that they continuously reported on Epstein even before it was popular to do so. So certainly a tip of the cap to them for that. Now, does that mean everything they do I agree with. Of course not. But when it comes to their Epstein reporting, especially Kate Bricklet, they did a really good job. And when other outlets were running from this story, the Deli Beast was running stories about it. And they were also calling out Epstein at the time, which a lot of other people weren't willing to do. Then in 2017, a case was brought by the author Sarah Ransom, who alleged that she had been abused by Epstein, and this abuse had been facilitated by Maxwell, Groff and two other staff members. Later that year, Ransom withdrew the case against Groff and and the other staff and reached a settlement with Epstein and Maxwell the following year. And that's how it always worked out. Always a settlement, never discovery, and never any real evidence being produced. And that was all by design, all of that. And that's why when Maxwell ended up going to discovery with Virginia, I was blown away. I was honestly shocked that it progressed that far. But I think at the time, Maxwell was between a rock and a hard place. She had said for so long that Virginia was a liar she had to put up. But her lawsuit with Virginia led directly to Maxwell being convicted. And it also opened the door for everything we're seeing Now Groff continued to work for Epstein until his arrest in 2019. In his will, written two days before his death on August 10, 2019, he put his estate into a trust to be distributed on among various friends and relations, with most $50 million going to his last partner, Corinna Schuliac. Smaller sums were assigned to Maxwell, 10 million, his brother, his pilot, and various other staff members. Groff was listed in a clause under the subheading, after my death, I forgive any loans which I made to the following individuals or entities. Leslie Katherine Groff. After Epstein's death, Grof was named in several lawsuits, including those brought by anonymous victims in 2019 and 2021, that were later dismissed as a condition for receiving money from the Epstein victims compensation program. Survivors were barred from pursuing any legal action against Epstein's estate or former employees. By the time it closed in 2021, the program had awarded 121 million to 135 survivors. Now think about that. Not even a million each. Now, of course, some people got more and some people got less. But Jeffrey Epstein's fortune was what, 540something million? And you're only doling out a fifth of that to the people who were harmed the most. I thought it was disgusting then, and I still think so now. And I gotta tell you, I would have never accepted that offer ever. If I was somebody who was abused. No way I would have went to the mattresses. Especially after finding out that the virgin Islands, U. S. Virgin Islands got more money than all the girls together combined. Imagine that. They were allegedly culpable for helping Epstein. So they ate at one end of the table, and then after dinner was done, they went nate at the other. But these survivors have been maligned and said they're just chasing a payday. Not really the kind of payday that people are thinking here. Grof's name also appeared in FBI interviews conducted in 2019 and 2021. In the 2021 interview, the victim, who was under 18 at the time, described how Grof arranged her appointments with Epstein, which were massages that turned sexual right away. She thought it was pretty obvious Leslie knew what was going on, Though she never said anything to Groff about the massages. And look, I've heard that from several different people, but it's very hard to prove. And unless you're charging RICO here, then I don't think you have enough to go on. Certainly not enough to get a conviction. She would tell Groff if a friend couldn't make it and suggest other girls. Groff she Said also arranged payment from Epstein to cover an abortion and payments to cover accommodation when she was staying at hotels. She said that Grof told her that she couldn't get an apartment as she was not yet 18. So Grof knew she was underage, sending her to go get abortions. All kinds of really. And you have no idea. You have no culpability. Sorry, I don't buy it. The most prominent of the cases, nemeng Groff, was a civil suit brought by Jennifer Arreos against Epstein's estate after his death. Arro said that she had been abused and raped by Epstein in his home when she was 14 and 15 years old. In her complaint, Arro's attorney, Daniel Kaiser, claimed that Ms. Groff directly facilitated as well as conspired with Epstein and other co conspirators to make possible and otherwise facilitate the sexual offenses committed against minor plaintiff Ms. Arreos. And that's the RICO right. You have all these people working in coordination to commit crimes, and those crimes are benefiting Jeffrey Epstein directly. And from there, it all rains down on everybody else. This is not that difficult. But the whole entire point was never to charge this as a criminal enterprise. They always wanted to piece it off. They wanted to go after Epstein as a singular dude. That way they can have a nice storyline for us about how he was just a sick guy with proclivities, and all the other stuff was just a bunch of bs. In response, Groff's lawyers, John Whitcomb and Michael Bauchner, argued that Arreos had confused Grof with someone else. The alleged crimes had been committed at Epstein's house at a time when Grof wasn't based there. Groff's job, they said, did not include arranging sexual liaisons with underage girls. In fact, they argued, Groff was an innocent party who had been wrongfully maligned for years based upon sheer speculation, conjecture and innuendo. If she were for Jeffrey Epstein, she ipso facto must have known he was abusing teenage girls and must have participated therein. They emphasized one key point. She didn't know. Well, look, I'm not saying she abused anybody physically. I've never seen that evidence. I'm saying she's part of the problem, part of the machine, part of the RICO organization that Epstein was running. On December 1, 2020, the case was dismissed. Arreos had withdrawn because of the conditions set by the compensation program. Declared her lawyer. We're not surprised that the civil case has been dropped since Leslie found out about these inexplicable crimes. When. When the rest of the world did, said Bochner at the time. As a wife and a mother, Leslie remains heartbroken for Jennifer and all the victims, added Whitcomb. So heartbroken she never came forward. So heartbroken she never ratted on Jeffrey Epstein. But don't worry everybody. Leslie Groff, she was heartbroken. When I asked Bauchner about the allegations in all the civil suits naming Groff, he said that they were simply wrong, confused and and devoid of any facts establishing that she had any idea of Epstein's horrible and nefarious conduct. In fact, in some instances, the conclusory conduct alleged against her occurred years before Leslie was even employed by Mr. Epstein. We note that every civil case against Leslie was dismissed and she never paid a cent towards a settlement. Cool. So she'll have no problem removing herself from the npa, right? Go to the lawyers, go up to the court and say, look, I don't need that protection of the mpa. Drop it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey guys, it's Ryan. I want to tell you about my new pastime, Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has been around for over a decade, delivering the most fun you can have online. Play social casino style games for free, anytime, anywhere. So sign [e-mail] no purchase necessary.

[Chumba Casino / Hotels.com / Advertisement Announcer]

VGW Revoid. We're prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 21/ I want

[Podcast Host / Epstein Chronicles Narrator]

to tell my story. Doubt she's gonna do that. Although all the civil cases were dropped, Grof was still under criminal investigation. But In December of 2021, Whitcomb and Bachner stated that after a two year investigation, federal prosecutors had decided not to bring any charges against her. Because Epstein was dead. They couldn't go any further. What are they gonna do? If you don't have Epstein, you don't have anything. In her lawyer's depiction, Grof did nothing, saw nothing and knew nothing. Her ignorance was so total that it seemed to take on solid form, enclosing her like a reinforced steel chamber built to withstand attack. Yeah, it sounds about right. Complicity is elusive and slippery, not easily witnessed or proved. The accomplice is not the leading actor, but a figure in the shadows. In his book Implicit, the Berkeley professor of law, Christopher Cutz describes how an individual can only be charged with a crime of complicity, co conspiracy, or aiding and abetting, say if their actions independently meet criteria of criminality. Prosecutors have decided that Groff's actions were not crimes in themselves because they didn't charge Rico. How do you miss that? Did Mr. Cutts not talk about that in his book? If Grof's complicity is no longer a criminal matter, it remains an ethical one. Grof and the team of pilots, drivers, lawyers and accountants allowed Epstein machine to run with frictionless continuity, every individual involved in his life, however small, their tasks contributed to its operation and its effects. The concept of individual moral accountability is too limited. Rights cuts when so many serious harms are brought about by multiple people working together. But that doesn't absolve the individual. Something being a collective responsibility does not entail that it's not an individual responsibility. Well, no, they all had their role to play. They all played their roles. They did it well, and they all did it in furtherance of the criminal enterprise. And if that's not rico, I have no idea what is. Crofton was one of many enablers of Epstein. Enabling abuse is not a crime. But. But Amos Gorya, a law professor at the University of Utah, is now lobbying multiple countries to make it one. Goria is the son of Holocaust survivors. His first book was about the concept of the bystander, the person who watches a crime take place in front of them and does nothing, such as those who taunted his father with water while he was on a death march in the former Yugoslavia. We already have these laws. I don't know what this author is talking about. Rico. That's what it was created for. Look up the statutes, please. In his second book, Armies of Enablers, he wrote about how those enabled the sexual abuse perpetrated by, among others, the United States national team gymnastics coach Larry Nassar at Michigan State University and Catholic priests in Boston. In every case, there were people who allowed the abuse to continue, either by protecting the abuser, the institution, or ignoring victims reports. They knew what was happening, even if they never witnessed it taking place and did nothing. For Guerra, Grof is a classic case. If she was making appointments and booking flights, she was enabling. All this can't happen without her. In that sense, she was very like the leaders in Catholic Church or the university administrators who put their loyalty to their institutions over the duty to a victim. The is all incorrect. Those were institutions, right? Epstein was running a criminal enterprise. It wasn't the Catholic Church. Everything that was happening was benefiting Epstein directly. And all these lieutenants and all these people played their part to make that happen. No different from the Mafia. The only difference was that in Grof's case, said Goria, her institution was Jeffrey Epstein. When asked what Groff knew of Epstein's crimes, Bauchner said, it's our strong position that Epstein purposefully kept Leslie isolated. From his criminal conduct, since he had no reason to confide in her and every reason to lie. Epstein lived in two worlds, one legitimate and the other not, and made sure they did not collide. Leslie now realizes that Epstein made her a face of his legitimate world. It's no wonder she was included on so many emails. Yo, these people are seriously demented. Leslie Groff is no victim here. I'm sorry, she is not. For some of Epstein's victims, Groff's behavior speaks for itself. She was the person who arranged their appointments, booked their flights, and paid their money. They were all deeply involved. Rinna oh told me they can't deny they were enabling. Juliet Bryant wondered if Groff and her colleagues convinced themselves that the girls were models visiting from overseas rather than entertain the idea that Epstein had constructed a system of international sex trafficking. More likely, she thought Groff knew something was going on, but chose not to think about it. A lot of people don't ask questions. Doesn't mean you're not culpable. Is your name on it? Did you send the emails? Did you set the girls up? Sorry. Culpable. Among Groff's emails are hundreds between her and Ike, which reveal a wholesome domestic life far removed from the incessant demands of her work. They plan dinners and discuss house renovations, the bank loan, and decisions about paint colors and window styles. They figure out play dates, football practice timings, and summer camps for their son and worry about how much time he's spending on social media. Grof comes across as a mother devoted to her child in the ordinary, consuming way, and that makes it worse, in my opinion. Your kid gets doted on while other kids were abused. Way to go, mom. She worked from home when she could to have more time with him and made sure she was home for the day that he started the third grade. In an email to a pregnant former colleague, Groff tells her to enjoy every minute as it was the best, best, best part of my life. Time passed so quickly, and she found herself crying when she looked at photos of her son when he was little. Having a child was, she wrote, the most amazing thing you will ever experience. Hey, Leslie, quick question. Do you think that the families, the parents of the survivors, felt any different? Maybe you should have thought about those kids when your boss was doing what your boss was doing. After a while, clicking on email after email, I felt I was reading things I shouldn't. I found myself in the private enclosure of Grof's mind. Her family and home. The details of a life she kept separate from her job, the train she was going to take home, the burgers she'd make, the voluntary work she wanted her son to take part in. And yet, reading these intimacies also reveal the extent to which someone can divide their life in two. It's possible to have everyday concerns, to care deeply for the people you love, and to willingly work for a terrible man who does terrible things. There was nothing exceptional or particular about Groff that made her able to do this. Anyone could have had their CV plucked from a pile and done exactly as she did. We like to think from the safety of not being in her position, that we would have done things differently. But the capacity to close our eyes to horror is surely near universal. The it is. I've spent every day for the last seven years railing about this, and I promise you I'm not making money. Not like Leslie Groff. So save the every woman act for somebody else. That's a bunch of bs. And yet there's still the question of why she did it for so long. When I put this question to Bochner, he replied, although Leslie considered resigning, Epstein liked to manipulate, and he persuaded her to stay. She was awestruck by the quality of the company that continued to surround Epstein after his conviction, including heads of state, philanthropists, scientists, philosophers, past and present elected officials, and men of women of universal approbation. That's always the excuse. Everybody else was doing it, so I might as well, too. I don't buy that either. Garbage. Save it. Regrettably, Leslie, like so many others, was misled by Epstein and those complicit with him. Later in the statement, Bauchner added, leslie wishes she had never met Epstein and that she had resigned. Instead, her life has been turned upside down, including being viciously threatened simply for doing her job as a secretary for a con man who intentionally misled her and kept her isolated from his criminal conduct. Listen, nobody should be threatening Leslie Grof or anybody else. The idea is to force the government into action. That's the idea. Whatever Grof knew, it seemed she seriously questioned what Epstein was doing or her part in it. Perhaps, as Grof performed her role as social prosthesis, she felt her actions no longer belonged to her, but were simply an execution of his will. It didn't matter what she thought about what she did, because it was not her job to think, only to enact his desires. This is not to excuse what she did or didn't do, but an attempt to understand how someone can split themselves between two moral planes. To understand how someone who worries about the amount of Time their child spends on their phone. Might spend years arranging girls to see a man convicted of abusing children. And to understand why, in all that time, she didn't walk away. Are you for real? Let me help you out. Money. That's why. Money. That's what it all comes down to. When Groff goes to Washington on June 9, she will not be the first of Epstein's former employees to appear in in front of the House committee. His accountant, Richard KH and lawyer Darren Ndyk were both interviewed in early March. Khan said he made the wrong decision in continuing to work for Epstein after 2008, but there was a financial crisis and he had a family to support. Money, like usual. That's what they'll all say. Money, money, money, money. Indyk said he had no knowledge whatsoever of Jeffrey Epstein's wrongdoings while he was working for him. Khan also spoke of the toll it had taken on his family, said his reputation had been dragged through the mud, a situation that did not seem to elicit great sympathy. A Democratic representative, James Walkinshaw, accused Khan of being willfully ignorant. That's being nice. That's being nice. I'm sorry. You can't be as close to Epstein as Indyke and Khan were and not know I'm climbing all the way to the top of Mount Everest and screaming bullshit for that one. The interviews offered no great revelation or catharsis, but they did paint a picture of the odd suspended existence of all those closely connected to Epstein who have evaded formal accountability. They might never be found guilty of a crime, but they can't escape the shadow of association with the man. They live instead in the purgatory of undefined suspicion, where the best that can be hoped for is the impossible. A life out of sight, their names forgotten, the past rewritten. Or maybe just come forward and tell everybody what you know. It's wild that they think anyone's going to feel sorry for these people. During her last weeks of working for Epstein, Groff handled the usual range of tasks. Flights were booked, four redacted from San Francisco to Hong Kong. A propane delivery to Epstein's island needed chasing. There was a back and forth on who was keeping a copy of some boat logs. Groff wasn't sure of the necessity of this, but the fact Jeffrey asked about it means something. On July 5, 2019, Groff emailed Epstein and various colleagues about a man called Pokey who was supposed to have arrived on the island. He said he could be there. 7:00am Last we heard, she wrote. Can you confirm Epstein, meanwhile, emailed Grof and others complaining about malfunctioning windows, which were meant to swivel past each other so the entire window is open. The next day, Epstein would fly on his private jet from Paris to Teterboro, New Jersey, where he was arrested on charges of sex trafficking minors. There was no sign in the emails as Groff worried about Poki's no show that her boss, entire criminal edifice, was on the verge of of collapse. It was just another day with a mixture of administrative demands and the endless effort to make one man's life unfold minute to minute exactly as he wished. Another employee replied to say that Pokey wasn't answering his phone. Groff, not one to back down from pressing tasks in front of her boss, issued an instruction. Keep trying. So look, folks, I get it. Leslie Groff certainly wasn't abusing anybody, and I've never thought that. But if you look at it through the lens of rico, there is no doubt that she was complicit. But unfortunately, this is not a RICO case. And considering that, I don't see how they could charge Leslie Groff with anything really. So it's going to be interesting to see what she has to say when she appears before Congress. But I just don't know how far they're going to be able to get when it comes to trying to get to the bottom of what was going on. So it's going to be interesting to see what she has to say when she makes her appearance before Congress and like usual, will be right here every step of the way. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest here. And if you're looking for some serious fun, head over to Chumba casino.com@chumba casino. You can play all your favorite social casino style games for free, anytime, anywhere. It's the most fun you can have on your phone or computer.

[Chumba Casino / Hotels.com / Advertisement Announcer]

No purchase necessary. BGW Group Void. We're prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 21 plus.