← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 4-7) (6/13/26)
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This deposition comes from an unnamed captain at the Metropolitan Correctional Center and provides a detailed account of how Jeffrey Epstein was managed inside the facility, particularly in the Special Housing Unit. The captain describes Epstein’s...
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What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up with the unnamed MCC captain and his interview with the OIG inspectors investigating the death of Jeffrey Epstein. Question. So when the investigation comes down, of course inmate Epstein would have been interviewed in May. Tartaglioni would have been interviewed, at which time you would have took those statements and you would have waived. And then you would have took into consideration any witness statement or anything that was observed during the clinical assessment. So that's why Health Services helps us out, because the inmates don't want to understand that everything they're doing or anything they're saying is being entered on the clinical assessment. Investigator. Sure. Answer by the captain. So that's where they were saying that he wasn't. His actions may not have been what. What they should have been for the person that was quasi supposed to had been assaulted or if he was supposed to have been unconscious, you were displaying this type of manipulative behavior. So again, I wasn't there, so I don't know what occurred. I'm just going by what the information that was relayed back to me. Question. Absolutely. So as far as Tartaglioni, what was he in for? Answer. I believe that Tartaglioni was responsible for. He was a former police officer. I believe and I believe he had killed four people and then he buried them. Buried the victims somewhere up near Otisville Prison. I think that's what it was back in the day. Question. Okay. Answer. Yeah, something like that. Question. So he was actually in for murder, though? Answer yeah, it was murder. He was in for murder and whatever other stuff he was doing. Doing in his capacity as a police officer. Question. And who selected him to. And why to be Epstein? He gets cut off by the captain. Who selected him? Answer. Who selected him to be Epstein's roommate and why? Answer. I don't remember who vetted Tartaglioni, but What I will tell you is that even though Tartaglioni had murder on his jacket, Tartaglioni was an inmate that had issues being in general population. You understand what I'm saying? Answer or question. Huh? Former police officer. Answer. Former police officer. He had issues because I've dealt with Tartaglioni at Brooklyn. So he was up on one of the units in Brooklyn and he had issues with those inmates in those blocks where they're made for people who are sex offenders, for inmates that have issues with. When they go to population general, they can't cope. Former law enforcement, these types of guys are in that unit. So you don't really have that much issue in those types of units, because these guys are going to do their time or wait for their sentencing and then they move on. So you don't really have a lot of violence, but this guy was always, always in the mix of something. Question. Huh? Answer. But we couldn't put him on general population unit. And you can't just throw them in the shoe, you know what I'm saying? Just because. Just you can. So in Brooklyn, we had the ability to put him. I think it was K82, I can't remember. But when he goes to MCC, you know, they don't have those type of units, so he would have to go to general population or he would go to the shoe. So if the inmate fails the program and said, I'm not going to population, you can't force me. So when you do his assessment, his unit team does the assessment. Psychology does their assessment. Health services does their assessment and say, well, hey, this guy is clear to go to gp. There's nothing precluding him to go. But the inmate said, well, you know, I'm 306. 306 is refusal of programs. I'm not going. So put me in the shoe. So that's how he ended up in the shoe. Answer. Sure. So he was in the shoe already. Answer. Yeah. Question and do you believe he was a good placement for Epstein? Answer. Well, at the time, again, you would have to be mindful. How could I put this? Inmates are not placed in cells based on race or. But however. Or gang affiliation. All of these things that you know. But however you vet inmates. So you say, okay, well, you have guys up there at the MCC that were facing murder charges. There's a lot of them. Hey, I mean, if they're in the shoe, that means they can't cope on the outside. They can't cope in general population unit. So we would look at them just like Another inmate. He never hurt another inmate. Question. And that was going to be my next question. So he wasn't known to assault anyone. Answer, Bro, he never assaulted another inmate. Answer. Okay. Question. Yeah, he got a murder beef. Okay, that's fine. But guess what? He never hurt any other inmates while incarcerated. Question. Sure. So take taking though, that he was incarcerated due to murder and that Epstein claimed that he tried to murder him, do you think that. Do you believe that there was any credibility to that claim? Answer. Again, what I will say is what I will tell you. Like you said my statement before, that it was brought to my attention that inmate Epstein was doing manipulative behavior, kind of testing the water to see what he can get away with being his initial incarceration. Probably not too familiar with being in jail, but however, he's a smart guy. He kind of figured out what he could do in order for him. One, not to go to gp, two, to try to get in the shoe and try to get a cell by himself. That's kind of where he wanted it to go. Question. So then he wanted to be in the shoe by himself. And that may have been why he said that. Okay, so you believe that he made the claim against Artaglioni because he wanted to be in a cell by himself? Question. That's my belief. After looking at everything and everything that was done, I believe so. I think that would be accurate. Question. Okay, it says he was placed back on suicide watch for approximately one week. So that happened on the 23rd and it brought him up to about July 30th. Is that correct? Answer. Correct. Question of 2019. Unlike his first and previous placement on suicide watch, Epstein now has definitive suicidal tendencies reported in his incarceration history. The staff was tasked with determining what whether Epstein was in fact suicidal or using tactics to avoid assignment of a cellmate. After suicide watch, Epstein was placed on psychological observation and eventually returned to the SHU. Now again, and just to go back, this 10 south thing, that didn't where Lt. Bringing it to you, like, hey, should he be on 10 South? No. Question. You don't recall any lieutenant saying that? Answer. That wouldn't be a Lieutenant's purview. Question. Sure. Answer a lieutenant, most of the people, and then I will tell you, I didn't understand Sam's placement until I became a deputy captain. Question. Okay. Answer. All right. And I understood that, you know these guys, you just can't put a guy as a SAM's. That identifier. That's an identifier that has to come from Central Office Question okay, answer. BOP central office. Question so if a lieutenant, so if we're talking lieutenants and they're saying he should have been in 10 south, but they don't know what they're talking about, basically. Answer no, because that identifier, because I believe, you know, this is an identifier that's put on the inmate. Just like, I'll give you an example, sentencing designations, okay. That's their job. They're going to do say what security level inmates, what type of prisons they go to, if they're a transgender, you know, all the different things. All that stuff is going to come from the central office to say, okay, we looked at this particular inmate's history or psi, and we feel that the identifier needs to be placed on this inmate. So a SAM's identification or a moniker put on an inmate, Executive staff can't put that on there. That's going to come from central office. Question okay, so although a lieutenant may have thought gets cut off by the captain, they may have, yeah. They may have thought and said yeah, due to. Yeah, the situation of him being a multi billionaire or whatever, or due to his issue of his proclivity to sexual deviances and all of these things, he wouldn't be a candidate to go to gp. But guess what? That responsibility, that identifier, that moniker should have been put on Epstein before he even came to McCarthy. Question sure. So do you know if this is something, obviously it sounds like it would have been out of your hands. Would that be something that the warden would discuss with what the regional director? Answer that's right. The warden would have had that discussion between sia, the regional staff and also it goes to the region, the central office staff over correctional programming. Question okay, and you were never gets cut off, involved with any designations. Answer I would never be in any of those conversations. Question. Okay, fair enough. So who would be the 2? I guess the warden would be the right person to go back to and just say, hey, did this ever come up in conversation? Answer Right. Question okay, it says at the direction of the warden, redacted. Initiated the process of compiling possible cellmates for Epstein, vetting them and submitting candidates to the warden for his review. Redacted. And his staff fully screened potential cellmates and reported their determinations up to the warden. Efren Reyes was selected and housed in a cell with Epstein. Answer that's right. Question. And it says the assistant warden, but I'm assuming they mean the associate warden, warden and regional director were notified. Answer okay, this is how that went Down. Redacted. Sat with me, not with the AW present. And we wanted to. We started talking about security protocol moving forward with Epstein. That's with me. And redacted. We had this discussion. Question. Okay, because like I said earlier in my statement, even though the AW would have been next in succession as far as my supervisor, however, I did have conversations directly with the warden and as far as security situations indiscernible in the institution. So we sat there and he wanted me to complete names and vet inmates that would be possible. Good candidates as a cellmate for Epstein moving forward. So I brought a compiled. I believe I had 10 names. And he and I went through those names. We brought it down to three. Then those three names redacted because I sat there when he called the regional director on the phone and. And the regional director vetted those three names. Question. Sure. Answer. And then I sat there and I was privy to that conversation. I sat there and he gave them. And he faxed him the whole makeup of all three of them. And the regional director said, no, I want this guy. Question. So the regional director ultimately made the decision. Answer. Yes. All right, so we're going to wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right back to the unnamed captain from the MCC and his interview with the OIG inspectors. Question. So give me a little background on Reyes. What was he in for? Answer. I believe Reyes was Hispanic, older male. I believe that particular inmate was in for. I think he was in for child. Some type of sexual stuff. I can't remember. Answer or question. Some kind of charge with charge dealing with sexual. He gets cut off with, you know, those types of charges. A similar charge to that. Similar to Epstein, I believe, or I can't remember. Question. Okay, was he. When he was being vetted, was he close to like, a release date or anything like that? An anticipated release date? Answer no one knew that because this is what you need to understand about mcc. MCC and MDC are basically jails. They're not prisons. It's a jail. So that means if a guy goes to court, you know, you get locked up, and then the next day you might go to court, the judge might say, no, I'm releasing you. We don't know. Question. Sure. Answer. The only time we'll know is when the inmates come back from court. Where is this guy at? He was released. Okay. Now we got this guy still in our account. So if they don't bring a transfer order, our account is bad. So they're going to bring the transfer order back with with them for court line. These guys got released. So normally court line is over before four. So we try to get these guys up. Do some inmates come back after 4? Yes, they do, but however, we don't know if an inmate goes out to court, if they're coming back. However, there is times when they put out the roster and it's given to as far as all correctional officers that work the units. And it'll say court line. Inmate Reyes, using him as an example, wab. That means that he has to come downstairs with all his belongings. So if they say it, that means he's not coming back. That's either he's transferring to another BOP facility or he's going to be released to the street. But I can guarantee you that that transfer of that roster, that inmate Reyes was on that day, it didn't say Wab because it would have said wab. The first thing that the OIC should have said, that's my orange tag guy. Because I made them do all the orange tag guys and I made them put up. Put them up on the board. Epstein is that orange tag guy. He's supposed to have a celly. Wab. Oh, cap shoe. Lieutenant wasn't there, but he would have called me directly. Hey, so and so don't have a cell question. Yeah. So how long did it take to vet. You know, I know you said you started it with 10 and then it brought down to three, and then the regional director ultimately decided the one. But how long does the process take? Answer. I believe it took. I'm thinking we did it. We did a day. It took a day. I mean, we actually went. You know, I don't know. I don't. I know either. The warden and I was having a lengthy conversation because the warden wanted to ensure redacted philosophy when dealing with Mr. Epstein was this. He's another inmate. And what he tried to get across to executive staff and what he tried to get across to us as me, as the captain, to when I disseminated down to the subordinate staff. This is another inmate. Who cares about what his charges are or since he's sensationalized in the media, nobody cares. We're going to manage him appropriately because if you know anything about jails and the bop, especially Brooklyn and mcc, we don't run those jails. The courts run those jails. So. And that's the truth. The court, the judges, whatever the judge says goes. So. And that's unfortunate, but that's neither here nor there. So redacted. Wanted the staff to say, no, this is the inmate. Yeah, he has certain charges, but we're going to make sure he gets everything that all the inmates get when they come to mcc. The inmates are going to get proper care, the inmate is going to get showers, the inmate is going to be fed, whatever it may be. But, however, after those situations with Epstein where it showed that his behavior was manipulative, when it shows that he was trying to get things for unnecessary gain or he would do anything to get anything that would benefit him, we had to take some different protocols. We had to take a different. They had to take a different approach, a different mindset with this guy or the way we managed them had to change because we already had this guy saying that he was going to be killed and all this stuff or whatever. So we just wanted to make sure, moving forward, we put protocols in place that will protect us as an agency. Question. So speaking of protocols, was it discussed then when you were vetting these, hey, we have an inmate constantly moving out of here. If Reyes is moved, one of these other two that were down to the three would be moved in with them. Was that discussed? Answer. No, he would just. Basically because like I said again, at mcc, you wouldn't know how long the duration on the inmate stay. Question. Sure. Answer. You wouldn't know. Question. So you just have to start the vetting process over again. Answer all over again. Whoever is available in the unit that may be single celled, because as you know, our policy and protocol and in the Bureau of Prisons are dealing with restricted inmates and special housing units. They cannot be sold alone. They must have a cellmate. In the special housing unit, everyone must have a cellmate. Huh? Oh, I didn't know that. So every single one needs to have a cellmate. Answer. Except because it's one of the areas that we didn't Discuss. Outside of 10 south, there was a range that was meant for. It was like a step down from 10 south that only had one man cell occupancy, which was on G range. Question. Okay, was that part of the special housing unit? Answer. Huh? Question. So there's a part of the special housing unit that is a one man occupancy, another part that has two man occupancy. Answer. That's correct. Question. Okay. And Epstein was housed in the two man occupancy. Answer. Yep. Question. Was it ever discussed to put him in one of the one man occupancies? Answer. No question. No answer. Because all those cells were filled with inmates that were vetted that needed that type of supervision. Question. Okay, answer. You had inmates in there that if they were, they were put with other inmates inside of special housing, they would die, they would be assaulted. So we have to make those considerations. So the protocols of how we dealt with inmates according to their situation, I believe it was sound. But guess what? You can only. You're like the coach. I can make the game plan, but if the players are not executing the game plan, whose fault is that? Is it the coach or the player? Question. And Exactly. And that's what we're doing here. Were Monday morning quarterbacking. We're just saying like, all right, this is. And that's why we're going back through it. So the warden directed. Redacted on multiple occasions at Epstein needed a cellmate at all times and redacted. Informed his lieutenants the same. Redacted. Repeatedly directed his shoe lieutenant redacted that Epstein needed a cellmate at all times. Additionally redacted. Visited the shoe on multiple occasions and directed staff to be very alert and attentive about Epstein's special accommodations. So when you say that about the shoe staff, did you also inform the shoe staff that Epstein needed to have a cellmate? Answer. Yes. Question. Oh, so they were all aware? Answer. Yes. Question. Can you look at the shoe staff for both of August 9th and the very early morning hours of August 10th? Can you just list the people and let me know if you inform those people? Answer. So basically my hours of work were normally, let's just say 7:30 to 4. So I ensured that it wasn't within one week. But it was a process of doing rounds. So I try to hit every shift. So I hit the day watch, because that's the one I work evening watch. I stay over late, I walk up there, hey guys, this, this is the situation. Let's make sure that, you know, we're paying attention. And then morning watch, of course. So beginning at 8am Then on August 9, can you just look at. This is a question now. Can you look to who and name the people? Can you just name who was in the shoe and if you ever had any conversation with them, if they were aware? Answer. Okay, let me see here. Well, we had redacted. I talked to redacted and redacted. He was in there. Redacted. Redacted. Was one of the guys that was up there as a Wreck officer. Answer so all gets cut off him picks back up with the question. All of those people were you had conversations specifically with them and they know. Answer I've talked with these guys. Question Absolutely. Can you just name the other people for the shifts after him? I think they just gets cut off by the captain. You got now M. Thomas. M. Thomas. What you need to understand is that he would have been because you know, like I said, overtime non custody. He's non custody staff. I don't have conversations with him. Question okay, so Michael Thomas may not have known. Answer Right. Because realistically the morning watch and evening watch shift people don't like to come to work. So if you sign up for overtime, you say, oh, shoe two is open. Okay, I'll take it. But you're non custody. So that means anybody can work it. A teacher, a food service foreman. Answer Is the shoe easier to work than the other units? I wouldn't say it's easier, but it's less labor intensive. Question okay. Answer. Because in my opinion from when I worked special housing, special housing was always hard work. Because I'm going to tell you why you have to be vigilant and when I mean vigilant, you have to understand when you're working that unit, anything can happen. It could be quiet, but guess what? If you're not walking, looking in those cells, testing the security protocols meaning making sure the flaps are closed, making sure that the doors are locked. You want to know that in SHU sometimes doors was unlocked or flaps opened to chase doors, those food services, the service flap, you know, making rounds, making sure that the inmates are not have coverings up when you open up. What do you call it? Question the window. Answer the window. Or putting a towel over the bed and blocking the light from you being able to observe them. Question but then how gets cut off and what I said about but I want to get back to because I know about the statement about the doors being left open. I'm talking about more in general population as far as when you're making rounds, those types of things you test making sure the door is secure, making sure the food slots are secure. Question huh? Answer by the captain as an officer coming up, even as a lieutenant, do you know that I've actually walked into a unit and pulled on the door that's supposed to be secure and the inmate is wide open. Question wow, ever at mcc? Answer no, because that wasn't my capacity, that wasn't my job. But as a line officer, subordinate and also when I was lieutenant making rounds, that's What I would do when I hit a unit, it wasn't just to talk to staff. I would walk in and look at the security protocols in the unit. Is there a fire extinguisher there? Good. Your phone work? Computers work. Hey, let's walk the block. Pulling on doors, pulling on food slots showing. Trying to train officers. That's what I used to do. Question, lead by example, answer, and guess what happens. You would find stuff because people in a hurry enough to go home on that evening watch them. Inmates know their doors are locked, but they know they're going to come out. Because if they come out, there's a situation, but they'll sit up there and leave it open. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the interview by the unnamed captain at MCC with the OIG investigators. Question. So back to this, though. Can you look at the other shoe on, you know, the subsequent shifts, if you had conversations with them? Answer. So, Thomas. No, because he would have just been on there. Redacted. Yeah, I talked to Redacted. Because. Redacted. Would go between evening watch. Because I would talk with him. Redacted. Would work evening watch. So I've talked with him on evening watch. He was working morning watch because these guys, it was such a short of staff that these shoe guys was working back to back shifts or staff. It didn't matter. People who wanted money or wanted to, you know, they'd sign up for overtime. So Redacted was one of the regular shoe staff on the evening watch. Yeah, so I talked to him. Redacted. I talked with him. Redacted. Redacted. Would go between the three and also the oic because he had the most knowledge out of those guys. So sometimes he. Even though he was the three, he was the one with OIC duty. And OIC stands for Officer in Charge. Officer in Charge. So he was doing all the rosters when it was time to move inmates inside the units. You know, he was in charge of ensuring that those sentry rosters were updated to ensure that the accountability of the unit was correct, to make sure that the inmates were placed in their proper cells. Who was this? I'm sorry, hold on. And so in the shoe, we want to be focusing on Noel Tova Noel was one of the question and that's Tova. Now I know Tova. Now Tova I can't remember if I spoke to Tova, but I know that I had hit all three shifts, meaning that day watch I was always up there on day watch, evening watch I stayed over because that's what the warden wanted. He told me, hey, make sure you go and hit all the three shifts. The warden told me to do it. So if the warden told me to do it, why wouldn't I go and do it? Question sure. Answer the warden we sat down, he said that these are the things that I want to happen first. I want to make sure walk through, talk about, make sure the staff is aware, indiscernible are doing this, this and this. And also I know that you have that I put out an email so I just didn't tell them. What do you call that? Question so you sent an email to all the shoe Answer yeah, I did. To all correctional services staff and I think I still got it. Question to all correctional Answer yeah, I still got it. Question did you ever provide that to anyone? Answer huh? Question did you ever provide that to anyone? Answer no, they never asked for it. Question can you absolutely provide that to us? Answer yeah, I think I have one and we can go to my office so I can show you. I don't want you to think I will bring it up for you. Question so would have this Michael Thomas and Tova Noel been on that email? Answer Tova would have been because she's a correctional officer, but not Thomas. Answer okay. Question you understand? Question okay, but I thought that everyone was considered a correctional officer. That's not the case. Answer as far as when emergencies happen, when emergencies happen, regardless of what your discipline is, we all come together. It means you go into everyone. When you came in the bop, everyone was given the opportunity that when you went through correctional those tactics that you learned is in Glynco it was about being a correctional officer. It wasn't about being a dentist or being a chaplain or whatever. It's about correctional principles. Question okay, Answer Introduction to correctional principles Question but as far as there was an email that just the people that are working in the correctional officer Answer yes, and I can show that to you. Question Perfect. I have that question awesome. Answer because it wasn't just me just talking to them. I put out guidance and I keep putting out guidance. It wasn't like it was one time. I talked about inmates being placed on suicide watch. I talked about inmates putting on there what is the Difference between closed supervision, what is it? Suicide watch Question Psychological observation. Answer and psychological. There's no such thing as psychological. And that you know, there's no such thing. It's called close supervision. There's no such thing as psychological. That was an MCC thing. Question okay. Answer that they made up. So it's a close supervision and or suicide watch question. So you have at least one email though that you sent to correctional officers saying that Epstein needed a cellmate. Answer I wasn't saying Epstein but I do have two. I think I gave one email and one memorandum that I wrote for the 583 packet for Epstein. I think you may have that. I don't know if you have it. And then I have wrote another one about the importance of doing 30 minute rounds in the special housing unit. Question okay, yeah if you can, after we're done, either you can send it to me or you can give it to me. Answer I can give it to you. I'm going to give you a copy. Question Perfect. All right then just I think there's a few more like I don't know how to spell his name, pronounce his name. But again that was another non custody guy. So redacted I believe worked. He was a material handler. I think redacted was a material handler. So he's not correctional services anymore. However did they have a background? No, I'm sorry redacted went to rd so he was receiving and discharged. So these staff members worked as correctional officers. Came up as correctional officers but their daily assignment, their job descriptions changed their whatever their non custody question so the people that worked in the shoe and the correctional officers they were aware of it but people that had different functions in the facility they may not have been Answer may not have been because a I wouldn't talk to them on a daily basis Question and what about do you know if there was any kind of like post it notes or sticky notes? Answer yeah, I had created it was one because I said orange card inmates. I said make sure these particular inmates inmates, high visibility inmates and I think I talked about that that the that the other inmate their card should be orange and those would be our high visibility inmates at you and and I think I got an email about that too about the high visibility inmates inside the unit. You should take special care to ensure these inmates are observed when you're doing your rounds. Anything though about the actual cellmate requirement though? Do you know if there was any kind of like sticky note or any kind of post it about saying hey, make sure that Epstein I can't remember. But like I said, I, I was putting out a lot of guidance, you know, coming from and you know, coming from the warden and things that I would have thought that was beneficial to the correctional officers. I was just putting that guidance out. I kept putting it out, you know, like I said, you know, I'm going to be talking to them on putting out the guidance, but if they don't open their email and don't read it. Question what about some of the people who are acting lieutenants, Somebody like a redacted Answer Redacted, Sorry. So redacted. She would work correctional post. Question so she would not have known that Answer she would have known. Question should she have known that Epstein had to have a second cellmate? Answer it's common knowledge that you're supposed to do the 30 minute rounds. Question huh? Answer and be vigilant. But, but however would she know necessarily that those protocols were placed on Jeffrey Epstein, that he was supposed to have a cellie? I mean you see an orange card if you see the guidance. I believe I had put something together that was on the OIC's desk. On the desk. Talked about the high visibility inmates and Jeffrey Epstein was a high visibility inmate. Question but is it understood that a high visibility inmate like that needs a cellmate? Answer yes. Question okay, so you're saying make sure you're doing rounds. But it's also understood if it's a high visibility cellmate, they need a cellmate at all times. Answer yes. Question okay, and did they all understand that? Answer yes. Question all right. And to include Thomas, he cuts them off. I don't know. How about Noel is the next question Answer but because they are not custody and I don't believe I had that conversation with them, I'm not going to lie, I didn't have the conversation with them. Redacted. What about some of these lieutenants, like acting lieutenant, like redacted Answer Redacted. Oh, redacted. Was in correctional service and she I believe during the time was working on attorney conference. Question yes. Answer she was in correctional service. She was working an attorney conference during that time. So redacted. I actually promoted her to acting lieutenant. She was getting paid as a lieutenant, so yes, she would have known. Question so she should have or would have or should have Answer Yes. Question how about some of the other ones that were on you said redacted. Obviously you already said you specifically directed him. Answer if he yeah, I brought him in the office and we spoke. Yes. Question do you know how and I think you said that you spoke to him on multiple occasions. Is that correct? And made sure that he knew and made sure that Epstein needed a cellmate. Answer. Yes. Question. Okay, what about redacted? Answer. Redacted. I had conversations. Well, I don't believe I had a conversation with her. Question, should she have known based upon the orange card? Answer yes, she should have known because I put the guidance out through the email. Question. Now, the guidance, though, said about. You said it talked about rounds as opposed to actual cellmate requirement, though, correct. Answer I can't remember. Question. Okay. Answer. You know, I don't know because like I said again, I put out a lot of guidance. Answer. Yeah. Question. But I know the people who I actually spoke to as far as like, hey, you the oic? I mean, you're the lieutenant of shoe. That means you're working day watch. That means any movement happens on day watch, it don't happen on morning watch. Inmates are locked in their cells. Question. Right. Answer. So anything day watch, evening watch, that shoe lieutenant should be aware. Question. Okay, and we'll get into gets cut off. So that's why we would have had the conversation when he and I had that conversation. Question. And do you remember. So you recall specifically talking with them? Do you? And this is. I want to know about. Aside from what they should have known. Specific conversations with redacted. Answer. I can't remember about redacted. I believe it's internal. I came into the lieutenant's office and I we spoke about it. So as a collective, the lieutenants were made aware. I can't say I remember that I would come into the lieutenants and we would talk about Epstein. So again, between the guidance that was put out through the emails and the conversations that I would have just had encountering lieutenants. Yes, but however, I can tell you for sure, I had a conversation with redacted. Answer. And would have redacted. Made sure that those people working in the shoe knew this information. Answer. He would have as a lieutenant in charge. Yes, he should have made sure somebody likes somebody that's not in there. Although Toveno. Well, I think that was her quarterly post, or at least she was in there a lot of times. Question. Huh. Answer Leading up to it. So I should have made sure that she knew because she worked evening watch. Question. What about Michael Thomas? Answer. Michael Thomas, probably not. But by him working in the unit, he would know. I mean, you would say, okay, if he's working on evening watch or morning watch, there was no need to move inmates. There was no showers that should have been taking place. There was no earrings, no medical, nothing. We had to open up a cell for. For those inmates. Answer or question okay, answer. So most of those inmates was done on day watch. There was no reason for them to move these guys. Question. Okay. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're getting right back to the unnamed captain from MCC and his interview with the OIG investigators. Question. Sure. Then as far as conversations with redacted. Answer. Redacted. Was one of the lieutenants, as far as, again, speaking to as lieutenants as a forum, you know, hey, gotta make sure that you guys are doing it, you know, like that. But I know for a fact the only person that I spoke to that I pulled in my office was the shoe. Oh, I see. Was the shoe lieutenant, because they're in charge of that unit. So I disseminate the information and the guidance out to him, and he's supposed to take that guidance and push it forward. Question for the unit. So he's in charge of the unit. So you went to the guy in charge of the unit and you said, hey, you're in charge of the unit. Make sure he's got a cellmate at all times. Yes. Question and he then is supposed to take that, and anybody that works within the unit should know. Answer yes. Question okay, what about these lieutenants, though, especially the ones that are acting as like ops lieutenants and activities lieutenants? Answer okay, yeah, people like that, should they have known during these shifts, specifically on the 9th and 10th, should they have known that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? Answer I believe so. Question. Okay, Answer. But like, again, I would have to go back through my emails, you know, because a lot of the communication that me and the lieutenants had were through email. Because you can't catch them all on one shift. Question. Sure. Answer. You know, like catch them passing and coming. So I would put out guidance that way. Question. But as far as you, you said that everyone knew that he had an orange card and, and that he was high visibility inmate and therefore he was required to have a cellmate. So should that have been known through that? Answer yeah. Question and is there any excuse for any of them to say I didn't know? Answer I'm not going to put that on the lieutenant, you know, I'm not going to do that question. Okay, answer. I'm not going to be the guide to say whatever, whatever. Because I'm going to tell you what, sir, to be real with you, it was so much going on through that time frame that I don't want to put my statement to something like that that could detrimentally harm one of these lieutenants. I'm not going to say that hey, I talked to answer. Right. Gets cut off on this day. I'm not going to do that question. And I'm not saying about speaking. I'm just saying the fact that there was. And again you're saying that you don't recall the specific conversations about the cellmate requirement aside from redacted, but the fact that if there was an orange card, is that something that just is common knowledge? If someone has an orange card, a lieutenant should know he's got an orange card. He needs a cellmate answer. Right? But then again also it was high visibility guys, what do you call that on G Question. Okay, so with the guidance I put out, I got to give you that email, that email was saying that hey, these guys with the orange cards, you need to ensure high visibility, vigilance, ensure that these guys, you know, are alive. And all of this, you know, report any, you know, I went into detail with that question. Okay, so maybe not. If it's an orange card, it doesn't necessarily mean then that they require a cellmate. They just require gets cut off by the captain hire supervision. Ok, so you just need to know what they're doing at all times and make sure what they're doing. Yeah. Alright, so in this instance it wouldn't be necessarily cellmate, it would be everybody knows to keep an eye on Epstein, make sure that he's alright. So redacted is the only one that you can specifically recall. And again what you said. Answer. And then again, when I went on evening watch, morning watch, those shifts, when I had to talk to the teams together, yeah I would talk about vigilance after doing 30 minute rounds, making sure this is done. Making sure that is done. Question. Okay, answer. Making sure this guy, you know, that's what I did. Because that's what Redacted wanted. So I did that question. All right. And then again, just to make sure that I'm not misunderstanding you, you said you talked to Redacted specifically about but when you did visit the shu, not only were you telling them to keep high visibility on Epstein, were you also telling them the people that you did interact with that he needed to have a cellmate. Answer yes. Question okay, on Friday, August 9th or sorry, when is the last time can you recall that you had a conversation with Sho staff? Answer I can't remember, sir. Question no problem. Answer I don't remember because like I said, the guidance came out between the time of him being upon his release from suicide watch from the last time to the time during the time he was doing the vetting for the cellmate. So you know, it was a short period of time that this guidance and these conversations took place. And, and then the reinforcement was when he would walk through the unit and just do rounds. And then I'm like, hey, this is a high visibility guy. Why is this guy got trays in the cell, extra trays in his cell. Why is this guy got this. So then of course, you know, a lot of people at MCC they didn't like me because I was trying to hold people accountable. But I didn't always write people up. That's how I did. I came up like that. I'm trying to help you. People thought me trying to just talk to them about correctional services or trying giving them little, you know, helping them out, talking to them, you know, that I was trying to be a know it all, be all, be that guy, you know, you're not sociable but now you're down here telling us what to do. You're not one of those. That's the way it felt like so like again, I can give you the playbook to success but if you don't read it, it's just words. It's just words. And then I had a lot of issues with the lieutenants, you know, lieutenants, you know, were self serving. Even though in my previous statement I would never say anything statement to hurt them, I'm not doing that. But what I'll tell you was that the relationship between me and the lieutenant corps was not good. So again, as we move forward through today, you know, the statements that I make is not to try to put blame or try to hurt anybody. The only thing I'm doing is telling you that when the warden gave me the directions, he said he wanted X, Y and Z and X, Y and Z. Not only did I talk to the staff, I also reinforced it by putting out emails because I know I can't catch everybody and I know that staff is going to blow you off. I mean like yeah, whatever, I'm glad to be in the unit. Let's go ahead and go back to whatever he was doing. It is what it is. Question. Sure. And Just so you know, just to give you a little bit of peace of mind, we're asking you the questions directly. You're not placing blame on anybody. So if we ask you, like, if they're responsible or something, that's not on you. Question. Oh, okay. Well, I just wanted to. Because I didn't understand that. Question. Yeah, yeah. Answer. Because like I said, I'm not here. I mean, he gets cut off. Question I mean, we might say who was responsible or did they drop the ball, but that's us asking you a direct question, not you coming to us saying it wasn't this guy's fault. Answer Right Question. You know, we're specifically asking you, you know, Answer. That's why I didn't understand. And that's not why I'm. I mean, I'm not here for that or question. Right. Answer. I'm just here. He gets cut off. Question I mean, we do have to figure out who did drop the ball here. But that's not you. You're not coming to us, we're coming to you. Answer Right, I understand. So on Friday, August 9, 2019, redacted was on leave and thus there was no dedicated lieutenant assigned to the shoe. That's correct. Question in this event, the operations lieutenant had oversight that day and took over the responsibilities of the shoe lieutenant. So what time did you. You can look on August 9th, what time that he worked on? Redacted. Answer. The periods that. This is Friday, right? Question correct. August 9th. Answer I got. So basically I have redacted. Was not here. He was here on that Saturday, which was evening watch on that Saturday. Did he not work 4pm to midnight? He worked 4pm to midnight on that Saturday, the August 10th. Okay, you can speak. Do you know something different? No, no, I was just clarifying. Oops, sorry. Can I see the August 9th. So who was working August 9th? August 9th, it appears. I think you got redacted. All right. So redacted would have been an ops Lieutenant. And answer. Right. Question well, redacted and then redacted. Answer yeah. Question and then underneath them, the activities lieutenant would have been redacted and redacted. Answer Right Question Correct. All right, all right. So they must have got this wrong somehow. So it says. So this is not accurate when it says in this report, in this event, the operations lieutenant redacted had oversight that day and took over responsibility for the shoe. Who actually had oversight then since redacted was out, that would have been the day watch operations lieutenant. And who was that? The day watch operations lieutenant for August 9th would have been, it appears it was redacted. So redacted would have been responsible. Right. Question and is it your understanding that Redacted knew that he needed a cellmate? I believe so, yes. Okay. All right. So that was incorrect, all this stuff about the redacted thing. And then it goes on to say Redacted informally advised his lieutenants that Epstein was not to be housed alone and emphasized that he needs to be vigilant about 30 minute checks and unannounced rounds. And you said that there were emails about that and, well, as when you spoke with your lieutenants and when you went to the shoe specifically. Answer. Huh? Question Correct. All right. And that you don't remember the last time that you did that, but between August, between July 30 and August 9, you at least did it a few times, right? Question okay. And you think you hit at least all three shifts between that time? Correct? Question okay. Answer I believe I did, yeah. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.