← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 1-3) (5/15/26)
00:40:14
Michael Thomas was a veteran correctional officer employed by the Federal Bureau of Prisons at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan — a federal detention facility — where Jeffrey Epstein was being held in the Special Housing Unit (SHU)...
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to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. I drive my bus in a busy city. That's why road safety is so important to me. I know that I must slow down and be extra careful when I make a wide turn. Buses need more room than cars. Everyone can help keep our roads safe. Next time you're driving, remember to give buses plenty of time and space to finish turning before driving ahead. Let's all plan to share the road safely. Learn how at www.sharetherodesafely.gov what's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to continue our look at some of the unsealed files. And this time we're going to dive into a sworn statement given by Michael Thomas, one of the guards who was on duty the night Epstein died. So the person asking the questions is somebody from the OIG's office, and the person that's doing the answering is Michael Thomas. So they swear him in and then the questioning starts. Question thank you all. Mr. Thomas, you're here today as a subject in this DOJ OIG investigation. This DOJ investigation concerns your alleged misconduct to include allegations of false statements, job performance failure, security failure, and reporting false information. This is an official DOJ OIG investigation and you're being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG, Mr. Thomas? Yes. Redacted question. Thank you, sir. Now, we have a form here for your employer. For our employees who provide voluntary answers to our questions. It's the U.S. department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General. Warnings and assurances to employee requested to provide information on a voluntary basis. It says you're being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to your alleged false statements, job performance failure, security failure, and reporting false information. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceeding or agency proceedings, disciplinary proceedings or both. And obviously we have the dpa. Then there's a waiver section. I understand the warnings and assurances stated above and I'm willing to make a statement and answer the questions. No promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or coercion of of any kind has been used against me. If you want to take a look or anybody, the attorney or anybody wants to take a look. That was red verbatim. But if you agree there's a section that says employee signature. And then you can just print your name. Mr. Adapted. Just print your name right there. Thank you Mr. Thomas, for signing. I'm going to sign as a signature of the officer of the Inspector General. Special Agent. Again, this is my redacted. And I'm going to print my name. Special Agent. Redacted. Can you sign as the signature of witness? This is Special Agent Redacted. I'm signing a signature of witness. Thank you, sir. Special Agent, can you just fill in the date and time and then write in the place so the date is again. 6172021 and the time is. Is 10:11am thank you. Okay. And since there's a union representative present, I have a form for you as well if you just want to take a look and review that. I'm not going to read that out loud. For the record. Redacted. I've read them many times. Redacted. You don't need indiscernible all that. Thank you Mr. Adacted, for signing where you said that you certify that you appeared as an official OIG investigative interview as a union representative and was provided a copy of this advisory and signing it and dating it. I'm going to sign where it says name of OIG Special agent. It actually doesn't ask for my signature. So I will first print and then sign next to it. I'm dating it. 6:17, 2021. Redacted. Mr. Mitchell? Is someone on the line? Mitchell? Well, I was just setting up a conference so Mr. Figgins could dial in. No one's there. Oh, okay. Is he going to be dialing in, Mr. Mitchell? Yeah, he's going to join us shortly. Okay. Question from Redacted. So shortly attorney Montel Figgins will be dialing in. All right. So did you understand the OIG form, Mr. Thomas? Mr. Thomas? Yes, I did. Redacted. Great. Thank you. Before starting, I would like to place you under oath. Can you raise your right hand please? Mr. Thomas, do you swear to tell the Truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? Mr. Thomas Yes, I do. Thank you, sir. If there's anything that you don't understand or any kind of questions, please just ask me. And I surely will. Thomas the language where if I don't understand, I will say something. Redacted question Perfect. Thank you, sir. Okay. Alright, so what's Your current address? Mr. Thomas? Kisabe, New Jersey. Redacted thank you sir. And what's your date of birth? Gives a date of birth. Do you happen to have any kind of ID on you? Just so we know we're talking to the right person? Okay. I'm looking at a New Jersey auto driver's license with the name on it as Michael A. Thomas. And the picture does match the person sitting in front of me. Okay. What's your highest level of education? Mr. Thomas Some college. I completed high school. Question okay, how much college did you have? Mr. Thomas I couldn't add to a little bit correspondence courses when I was in the military and everything like that. Redacted Question okay, so was there like a course of study? Mr. Thomas no. Question no, just required? Thomas no, just like basic courses and stuff like that. Question and around when was that? Mr. Thomas 2002, 2001? I'm thinking here and there. Question sure. Was it all from one institution? Mr. Thomas it was some online courses and stuff like that that I took. Question okay, cool. While you were with the military? Answer yeah, by Mr. Thomas yeah, while I was in the military. It was all done while I was in the military. Question Perfect. And what did you do prior to working with the BOP? Mr. Thomas I was at target back room. Question okay, and how long did you do that? Thomas I did that for three months before I got this job here. Question so it was primarily the military previously? Thomas yeah, I, I got out of the military in 06 and then I started this in 07. Question Great, thank you. Thank you for your service. When were you in the military? Mr. Thomas I went in in 98 to 2006. Question and what branch? Army. Question Army. Thomas Answer Active duty the whole time. Question and when you Sorry. Okay, so where the attorney is getting on the phone with Mr. Higgins and with the army. When you got out of the army, what was your rank? Mr. Thomas E4. Question E4 sergeant. Is that sergeant? Answer no, that's a specialist. Question that's a specialist. Thomas huh? Question okay, what was your he gets cut off by Mr. Thomas highest rank attainable E5. Question okay, so you got to E5 and then came back down to E4. Mr. Thomas. Huh? Question Was it honorary discharge? Thomas. General discharge under honorable conditions? Mr. Redacted. Question okay, great. And when you were in the army, was it that you were my mosquito? Thomas13 Bravo. Okay? Thomas sorry if I answered that. No, no, please. I was trying to figure out the word to use. Mr. Thomas. Mos redacted. Okay, perfect. And how long have you served with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? Mr. Thomas? As of April 1, 14 years. Question 14 years. And what was your enter on duty date? Mr. Thomas. April 1, 2007. Question okay, and when did you graduate from BOP training? Thomas. I don't know the exact date. Question. But you did attend? THOMAS it's usually a year of probationary or something like that. Oh, you're talking about training at FLETC. Question at FLETC. Correct. So the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. Mr. Thomas. November of 07. Okay. And that was for correctional officer training. Yes. Question Perfect. Sir. And when and where was your first assignment with the bop? Thomas My whole career has been at mcc. Redacted. Okay, that makes it easy. And what positions have you held while you were there? Just briefly. Thomas. Correctional officer and material handler specialist. Redacted. Just those two. Thomas. Yeah. QUESTION okay, and what does material handler specialist do? What does that mean? Thomas It's a commissary trust fund. It's the trust fund in the BoP. Question okay, does that mean that you handle. He gets cut off? Thomas you deal with different positions from laundry, commissary, back room supply, and that's mainly. Yeah, that's mainly it. Question and what was your grade level? Thomas WS4, step five, I guess. Question okay, what's your current cell phone number? Thomas? Answers Question Perfect. And we won't contact you, we'll go through your attorney. But it's just a question we ask. And your current email address. He gives up that question thank you, sir. And when did you last work at the MTC? Physically present. Mr. Thomas. August 10, 2019. And did you work both on August 9 and August 10, 2019? Mr. Thomas? Yes. Question okay, and that was in the shoe from 12am to 8am on both days? Mr. Thomas on both days. What do you mean? Oh, yes, yes, yes. So on August 9th, midnight to 8:00am, then again August 10th, 8:00am or 12:00am to 8:00am and was that in the Special Housing Unit? Mr. Thomas yes. Question Also known as the shoe. Who was your supervisor when you last worked at the MCC? Or did you have one in particular? Mr. Thomas My supervisor was misredacted. Question Great, thank you. So just briefly, overall, that training would you attend while. So I know you said that you did CO training down at fletc, but what other training would you conduct while you're with the BOP? Mr. Thomas that I would conduct? Question yeah, like what training were you provided when you were with the bop? Like annual training? Thomas yeah, annual training. Annual training. That's usually done sometime. Well it, it lasts from January to sometimes March from what I can remember. But that's annual training aart, I think it's called.
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Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Question Annual refresher training. THOMAS yeah, there you go. Question okay, great. Is there any other training that they would provide? Mr. Thomas Question like did you ever attend like SHU quarterly training or anything like that? Mr. Thomas I have when I was off. So yeah, I've done shoe quarterly training. Question okay, so would you do the annual training every year? THOMAS Annual training is every year. Yes. Question and what would be the last time you think you conducted shoe training? Shoe quarterly training? Answer I really couldn't remember. QUESTION no, that's fine. All right. This is actually your training record. Do you just, I'm not going to ask you to like certify that these things are, you know, it's just to look at. And if you say for the most part, does that look like the training that you conducted? It shows from the most recent to through the past. Question this is just like your training record. We ask like, hey, can we put the BOP employees training record. They print something like this out, which just shows that like on these dates were the dates that you completed training. So it looks like that you completed the last annual refresher training on 4 5, which this is the annual refresher training course syllabus. This is the sign in sheet. So I believe that would be the last time that you conducted your annual refresher training. And like for instance, I believe that would be your name and would be that your signature next to it? Thomas yes. Question okay, great. So just point being the last time you did conduct annual refresher training in April of 2019. Thomas huh? All right, so we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna dive back in and pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the deposition of Michael Thomas, one of two guards who were charged, and the aftermath of Epstein's death. QUESTION. Awesome. Anytime I provide you something, I'm just going to ask you to initial and date it so that there is no confusion of what actually was provided to you and what you actually looked at. And it's not certifying to the accuracy of this. It's just certifying that this is what I showed you. THOMAS Any particular place? QUESTION up top would be great. THOMAS Signer Initial QUESTION Just initial and date. So again, it's 6, 17, 21. So I'm going to take that. This is not supposed to be connected. I'm going to take just your training records out of this because they've got a lot of your daily assignments in here and stuff. THOMAS okay, QUESTION this was all supposed to be attached to that. So that you'll see if is just so that we're on the same page is just all the way from 2007 up to 0809, 2019. Mr. Mitchell and when you say training, these were actual classes. Redacted QUESTION it's just what they have in the BOP system. Every time he conducts a training, they log it, and so they can keep a record of what training individuals conducted. Mr. Thomas okay, question and for this, the main point for this was that again, you did take that annual refresher training in April of 2019. Any questions on that? Mr. Thomas no question Any concerns? THOMAS Nope. QUESTION Great. Thank you, sir. Can you just kind of go through and find your daily schedule? There we go. His roster would be in there. All right. And at the annual refresher training, like, just roughly, what do you recall that you had learned there? Mr. Thomas It's a bunch of different classes. QUESTION like ethics, correct? THOMAS it goes from somebody speaking to somebody putting something up on the teleprompter, and then you're reading off. It's a variety of classes, depending on how the instructor at the time would present the class. QUESTION okay, great. Let me see. Just to bring us back to this, it looks like the way that the BOP system, this report that I just showed you, it looks like on 4, 5, there's a ton of different classes, and that just looks like probably what the annual refresher training covered. It would be like ethics, infectious disease, International security, key control, airspray, prison rape, report writing, self defense, weapons of mass destruction. Mr. Thomas. Yeah, but at different times. THOMAS They're a bunch of different classes. QUESTION. Perfect. Yeah. Awesome. And did they ever, at the mcc, did they ever provide you with like post orders and things like that? THOMAS. Yeah. Post orders. QUESTION Post orders. And there are guidance and policies and things. THOMAS. Yeah. QUESTION okay, awesome. Is there something that when they provided you, you did they say to you that you had to review them or they just give them to you? How does that work? Mr. Thomas they're posted on every housing unit. Redacted. They're all. So when you go to housing units, the orders are actually in there? THOMAS. No, they're in a book. Redacted. They're in a book? THOMAS. One of the books. Redacted. Okay. And do they ask you to, like, review them or how? I'm just wondering how MCC goes about it. What do they do with making sure their correctional officers know what the policies and procedures are in their institutions? THOMAS you have to sign them when you're supposed to sign them when you go to a post. Question okay, so like if, for instance, he gets cut off by Thomas, it's in your own to review them and everything like that. Question I got you. So have you ever been provided, reviewed and signed the special Housing unit orders? THOMAS. Yes. Okay. Do you remember, would that be like every time you're in there or would it be like the initial time? How does it work? Thomas if I'm not mistaken? I think it's just to whenever you go in there, the one time you go in there, he gets cut off. QUESTION so, like, the first time. THOMAS Every quarter you have to, if I'm not mistaken, you have to sign it. Question all right. THOMAS. Every quarter. So, like, if you go in there between February and April, the first initial time you go in there, you sign it and that was that was it. It's not something you sign every day. Redacted. Right. But like, for instance, in 2019, would you have been provided it and had to sign it? THOMAS. Yeah. QUESTION okay. THOMAS. It definitely had to be in there somewhere. Question and you did it? THOMAS I'm sure I don't know. Question but you have been provided. THOMAS Cuts them off I signed them before, yes, but I don't know. Question sure, no problem. What is the BOP or MCC policy on conducting counts and rounds? Just Broadly speaking. What, what's your like, sentence or two? Thomas. My interpretation of it Question. Your understanding of. Let's start with rounds. What are you supposed to do with rounds at the mcc? And we can even move it directly to the special housing unit so we don't get confused. Thomas. Huh. Redacted. In the special housing unit, how are you supposed to conduct around? Thomas. You're supposed to conduct the rounds and every 30 minutes, not at the same time, but roughly about every 30 minutes. Question. So it's every 30 minutes. Thomas. Not every 30 minutes on the hour or anything like that, he gets cut off. So like a 30 to 40 minute gap, there's like a 10 minute, I guess, window that you're supposed to conduct it within every 30 minutes, is that right? Thomas. It's not exactly he gets cut off 8, 8 39. Thomas. Yeah, it's not exactly 8 or 8:30, just every 30 minutes. So if you go at 122. Question. Sure. Thomas. You should go at sometime between 152 or whatever the case may be. It's just every 30 minutes. Question. And is that for the whole 24 hour day, 30 minutes? Every 30 minutes? Thomas. Yeah, for every 24 hours. Okay. So there's no, like you don't have to do it from this time to that time? Thomas. No, it's for a 24 hour day. And how do you conduct around? What are you supposed to do when you conduct around in the shoe? It depends on what time period. Can you just explain that a little bit? Thomas. Well, if you just walk around and look in the glass, are you supposed to be able to see a person and make sure that they're in there? Thomas. You're supposed to see a person and make sure they're there and alive and well. Thomas. See human flesh and everything like that? Yes. Okay. That they're not in distress or they need anything under distress? Yes. Okay. And what is the count, to your understanding, a cell count or an inmate count in the special housing unit? Thomas. An institution account? No. So when you're working in the special housing unit, do you not have to do a count on the weekdays from 4pm 10pm, 12am, 3am, 5am Thomas. You're doing the institution count, the standard. It's bop count. It's an institution count. Will I phrase it as an institution count? Question. So when you're in the shoe, how do you conduct account? Thomas. Same way you do around. So you just walk around, verify live tissue and everything like that. And you see a person. Question. And you're supposed to count the number this time though. So as opposed to just going in around, I'm assuming you don't actually call out the numbers and certify a certain number. You just go through and make sure that everybody's okay with account that you have to. He gets cut off by Thomas in account, you call out the numbers and then around you just verify. Redacted. Okay. And then what do you do after you got the numbers in the special housing unit? Thomas Tally it up, put it on a piece of paper. Question okay, like a counselip. Thomas the counsellor get time on the count slips. Question. Okay, great. And were you provided training on conducting rounds and counts at mcc?
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Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Thomas. Yeah. Question. Okay. When would you receive that training? During the annual refresher training. Annual shoe training? Thomas Annuals, yes. Annual refresher training and shoe training. Either or. Okay, so any other training they would provide you on that or they would have the two primary times. You get that? Thomas that's the two primary times. Okay. During your time at the mcc, how often would you be assigned to the special housing unit? It depends if it was for overtime. Well, besides then just, well assigned to just assign for overtime. Question so whenever you would conduct overtime, you would be there? Mr. Thomas. Well, if it was open. And that's what was open. Yeah, that's what it would be. Question since 2007 through 2019, did you do it fairly regularly? Thomas Fairly regularly. I mean. So you're pretty familiar with it? Thomas I'm familiar with both. From 2007. I haven't been a correctional officer that whole time. Redacted. Sure I was. If I'm not mistaken, I got the material handler position in 2010 or 2012. Something in between that time frame. Question. So I guess from 2007, from the time you would do it as like as a quarterly posted bid. Oh, I never did it. I can't recall ever doing it. I've done the shoe more than a few times. Yeah. Thomas. Uh huh. So point being is you're familiar with the way that the shoe is Operated. Thomas? Yeah, I'm familiar with how everything goes in the shoe. Alright, awesome. So aside from doing the counts and rounds, what other training would they provide you in order to make sure that you were prepared to work in the shoe? Would they provide like suicide prevention training, things like that? Thomas, If I'm not mistaken, that's on the art. If I'm not mistaken, that's on the art question. Suicide is on the art? Thomas? Yeah, it's one of the courses in art. Question. Okay, what is the course in art? I'm sorry, I'm just trying to. Thomas, I really couldn't tell you the exact name of the course or anything like that. What you're saying is Art has a shoe course, Is that what you're saying? Thomas? Yeah, it has. No, I'm saying it has what you just said. A suicide prevention course. I'm sure it's something like that in art. Oh, okay. But I was trying to use suicide prevention as like an example of training that you received to be able to work in the shoe. What I'm asking is like to make sure. I could say Thomas cuts them off. No, I don't think that's an actual course to work in the shoe. To work specifically with the shoe. It's just an actual course that they provide at art. It's not specific to just one housing unit. It's just an annual refresher question. That's specific suicide. So I guess what I'm asking is, what training did they provide to you to make sure you could work in the shu? Let's put it this way. During the SHU quarterly training, what type of training would they provide to you? Mr. I really don't remember at all. You don't remember? I don't remember often, no. That's totally fine, Thomas. Just regular shoe training. But you have received the suicide prevention training, though, at the mcc annual refresher training. Thomas. At art. Question. Okay, and what, just very briefly, what types of things would they teach you at suicide prevention training? Thomas? I'm trying. It's just training. Like, I don't. What's specific about the training? Question. Sure, Thomas. They tell you how it happens each year or in a quarter or something like that. I remember that they tell you cases of how people committed suicide. Sometimes it's signs to watch for suicide. That's basically all I can remember with that. I don't remember the training exactly. Alright, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left Off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up one where we left off with the jail guard, Michael Thomas, and his deposition with the OIG inspectors. Question. Sure, that's fine. Now, as you said, you work from 12:00am to 8:00am on both August 9th and August 10th, correct? In the shoe. Mr. Thomas. Well, it's August 10th, I think, if I'm not mistaken. But August 9th and August 10, you did 8:00am he gets cut off by Mr. Thomas. No question. I'm sorry. I mean, 12:00am To 8:00am on both days? Thomas. No, not both days. See, this really has me confused. If. Let's say the shift started at 12, usually the shift starts at 1 question. Correct answer. So if I came in, I came in on the 9th, but the shift didn't start until midnight. It's from midnight to 8 in the morning. Question. Right. So what I'm saying is midnight on August 9th. Thomas. Which is August 10th. Question. You probably got there on August 8th. Thomas. No, no, I didn't work. Question. So here's your daily assignment roster. I just want to make sure. So August 10, August 9, it says that you were in the shoe on both days. Thomas. Okay, so he gets cut off. I thought we talked about that earlier. I just wanted to make sure. So at the start of the interview, we talked about. Thomas cuts him off. Okay, so I did shoe. I didn't recall that I did shoe two days in a row. Question. Right? Thomas. Okay. Question. So I don't think you kind of called out maybe the two days leading up, but you still did your overtime shift. Thomas. These are all overtime shifts for me. Yeah, I know. None of this is regular shit for me. This is all overtime for me. Okay, great. So just the point being, I just wanted to make sure you did work on both August 9th and August 10th from the midnight to 8am shift. Thomas. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Awesome. Just because I presented this to you, do you mind just initialing and dating it? Does that appear to be your daily schedule for. It looks like it started back on June 29, 2019, until August 10, 2019. Thomas. Yeah. This is not a daily schedule for me. This is all over time, as you can see. It's all over time. Question. Sorry. The daily assignment for overtime. Thomas. For overtime. Yeah. Question. They're all your overtime shifts. Thomas. This is not daily. This is all overtime. Question. And as you mentioned, that's why it Says the number of times in there. Where? It's the shoe. Thomas it's the shoe and internal, mostly. Question. Right. Because there were overtime shifts working in the shoe. Thank you for your clarification. And what are your overall duties and responsibilities when you're assigned to the shoe? Thomas Maintain the count of inmates. Make sure the inmates are fed the. Depending on the shift you're referring to. Take over a shift, make sure they get their showers, make sure they're counted. And that's basically it. Okay. And are there any special requirements for inmates who are assigned to the shoe? Thomas not that I know of. No. Question. So are inmates that are assigned to the shoe unless they have some classification where they could be hurt by another cellmate. Are they all supposed to have cellmates? Thomas Classification? Like, I don't know if they still some. If I can recall some of the cell and rec alone, maybe they were in a fight and they. What's it called when they keep away from all other inmates, but other than that, some could be cell wrecked alone. Question. So for the most part, I should say, are inmates in the shoe supposed to have a cellmate? Thomas I don't know. Question. My understanding was that they're all supposed to have a cellmate unless they meet some kind of criteria, like they're a certain type of inmate who would be harmed by another cellmate. Is that correct? I don't know. You're not sure? THOMAS I'm not sure. Fair enough. No problem. Have you ever received training for medical emergencies with inmates in the art? Question. In art? Thomas yeah. Were you also an instructor? Thomas no, I've never instructed. You've never been an instructor? Never liked CPR instructor or anything like that? Thomas no, no, I'm not a CPR instructor. Question. Okay. All right. So for medical emergencies, the art is pretty much when they cover that. Do they cover that also during shoe training, medical emergencies for, like, inmates? Thomas I don't recall. No, I don't think so. Question. You're not sure? Thomas I don't think so. Question. Like, you got an annual training? THOMAS the annual training. Question. All right. Who is or was inmate Jeffrey Epstein, Thomas, an inmate at mcc? Question. Okay. Do you recall when Epstein was housed at MCC? Does July 6, 2019 through August 10, 2019 sound familiar? Thomas I don't remember when he first got there, but I don't remember when exactly he first got there. Redacted. So these we just. This is just the overtime roster when it looks like you were assigned to the shoe pretty regularly from 7, 11, 2019 to 8, 10, 20, 19. Thomas. Huh? Question. When you were there, was he in the shoe? Thomas. Yeah. Question. Okay, I'm assuming not the whole time. Thomas. Not he gets cut off, redacted. Because I think he was on suicide watch. But when you were there, he was. You know him from being in the shoe, though? Mr. Thomas. Yeah, I've seen him before. In the shoe? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, perfect. Do you know why Epstein was assigned to the shoe? Thomas. No. Question. No, they never told you why? Thomas. No. Question. Okay. Was it high profile for suicide, safety concerns, anything like that? Thomas. It could have been a number of reasons that his case was high profile, whatever the case may be. Question. Okay, and was Epstein assigned to the shoe on both August 9th and August 10th, 2019? Mr. Thomas. Yes. Okay. And we kind of just covered this, but do you know how long he was assigned to the shoe again? I believe it was July and August. Aside from those time frames, correct? Thomas. I really don't know. That's fine. What was Epstein's routine while he was signed at the shoe? Mr. Thomas. I don't know. Because you did the overnight shift, I can understand that. So are you aware that, like, during the day, he would meet with his attorneys every day, and then he would be from basically 8am until like, 7pm or 8pm he was meeting with his lawyers? Thomas. I honestly really don't know. Question. You don't even know. So when you worked at the shoe, was it always that 12am to 8am shift in the shoe? Thomas. Well, I mean, I'm sure I have some evening watch ones. I don't know if I have some evening watch or not, but I'm sure I've done evening watch or anything like that, but I didn't look exactly at it. Maybe that's all morning watch. This is all morning watch questions. So these, like, for July and August. Thomas. It's all. Yeah, this is all morning watch. Question. So they would all be from 12:00am Thomas. Yeah, that's all 12:00am redacted. And how is that identified as that? Thomas. O. Right here where you see, MW is for morning watch. They say DW is for day watch. Question. Okay. Thomas. But it's all morning question. So all morning watch while Epstein was assigned to the shoe? Thomas. Yeah. Question. Okay, cool. Now, did you ever have any communication with Epstein during his stay at the McC? Thomas. One particular time. Question. Can you tell me about that particular time? Thomas. He was on suicide watch, and I was watching him on suicide watch. Question. Oh, you actually watched them when he was on Suicide watch. Thomas yeah. Question all right. Not while you were in the shoe though. THOMAS no, not while I was in the shoe. Question all right. When you were watching him, was that a positive or negative experience? I can't label it under positive or negative. It was just watching him. Question like were his interactions with you, were they like Thomas cuts him off, oh, he spoke with me and everything like that. Question Was he pleasant? Yeah, he was pleasant. He wasn't mean or anything like that. He was really incoherent where he was at. But other than that he was just fine. He just sat there and and talk with me until, I mean the whole
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sponsors Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Question okay, and do you remember around when that took place? Mr. Thomas I really can't recall. Question could have that have been, does it say it on this? Actually it does on this thing it says suicide watch. Would it be on 723 2019? Thomas that could have been his. That could have been the one. Question okay, so on 7232019 I believe he had an incident within his cell and you're familiar with. So when you were watching him on suicide watch, do you know why he was there? Thomas oh for suicide watch. Question yeah, did you hear that he tried to take his life? Thomas yeah, I've heard that. As you can see it was internal that day. Question okay. THOMAS Internal. You just go up and you count all the housing units and everything like that. And I guess he tried to commit suicide and we brought him down to the suicide room and I sat there and I watched him. I don't know what, six hours, seven hours, whatever it is. Question but prior to them sitting down or even after, did they inform you why he was there? THOMAS well it's suicide watch. It's pretty self explanatory. Question but they didn't provide you details? Thomas no, just if you're there on suicide watch, it's kind of self explanatory. But if you go depending Suicide watch is one thing and observation watch is another. But if it says suicide watch, I'm sure he was on suicide watch because he was in a smock and he gets cut off. What does. What does a smock mean? Thomas? It's just a cover that you put over so you don't have any clothes or anything like that. Question. Okay. Is it so they can't harm themselves? Thomas? Yeah, so they don't harm themselves. Question. Okay. And you were the only individual on that observing them during suicide watch? Thomas? Yeah, I was the only one watching at that time. Redacted. And you said there is a difference between suicide watch and psychological observation. What's the difference? Thomas? Well, psychological observation, you have your clothes redacted. Okay, but I mean, as far as you as a co. Thomas, there's no difference. You're still watching them. There's no difference. Question. Okay. Thomas. You're still just watching them in suicide. In observation, you just have clothes and suicide watch. You're in a smock and a blanket question. Okay, and did you receive any instruction with regard to Epstein when he was assigned to the shoe? Thomas? No. Redacted. Specific to Epstein? Thomas? No. Question. And are you aware that Epstein was assigned any cellmate when he was assigned to the shoe? Thomas? I'm sure he was. Maybe he was. I don't really recall. Question. So you don't recall if he had a cellmate? Thomas? I know one time he had a cellmate. I don't recall, like, if he was assigned a specific cellmate or not. Question. Okay. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
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