← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 14-16) (5/16/26)
00:40:11
Michael Thomas was a veteran correctional officer employed by the Federal Bureau of Prisons at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan — a federal detention facility — where Jeffrey Epstein was being held in the Special Housing Unit (SHU)...
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- [00:00]
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Michael Thomas
What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up one where we left off with a Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. Question so as far as visitors to the shoe, you said that there was lane came at 4, but you don't recall any another CO coming in at 5:30am Thomas I don't. Question no. And the food delivery, you said that's all outside of the shoe. You go out and get that yourself? Thomas you go out and get that. I mean it happens. I mean if I'm not mistaken, it was just me and Noel up there at some time the six count come. He's pushing it in when he comes along, but I don't remember seeing the 6 cart come in at that time. Question all right. Thomas I don't recall. I don't remember if he was there or not. I really don't remember. Question okay, and you said no one entered Epstein's cell between 12am and and 6am that you know of? Thomas not by my knowledge. Question and did you enter Epstein's cell at all between 6 and approximately 6:30? Thomas no. Question and so never before the initial he gets cut off by Thomas the Yes, the initial. Question okay, do you know who the last person was to enter Epstein's cell? Thomas I do not. Question okay, do you know what would be the purpose of of someone for the last person to enter his cell? When you give people food, you do you do it through the food tray? Thomas Food slot. Question Food slot so what would be a purpose to actually enter a cell? Thomas during which shift? My shift. The overnight. Question yeah, so if you can think of a reason why people would go into an inmate cell, what would be the reason why someone would have THOMAS Most of the time, you, you don't go in an inmate cell unless authorized. The lieutenant has to be there to go in there. Question. Into an inmate cell? Thomas well, if you're talking about during the morning watch, I can't go in there until the lieutenant comes. I wouldn't just go in there unless the lieutenant was in there. Question. Okay, so officers don't go into inmate cells unless lieutenants are present? Thomas no, not for all. If an inmate is harming himself, I'm not going to wait for the lieutenant. QUESTION yeah, that's understood. You know what I'm saying? But as far as just going into the cell, I'm not going to go in there unless the lieutenant is present. Redacted. Okay. Do you call, do you recall any issues with any other inmates on August 10, 2019, during your shift? Thomas with me. Yeah. Thomas no question. You had no. Any issues. Do you remember, like, were inmates complaining about the cells being left on or anything like that? Thomas. Cells being left on. Sorry? The lights being left on? Thomas Nah, I don't remember. They complain a lot. I don't really remember. Do you know of any other inmates that were like, or came from suicide watch or were supposed to have special attention or anything? No, I don't remember. So you don't remember complaints about the lights being left on? Nothing? Thomas no. Question. How do the lights work? Are the lights left on down the range? Thomas the lights are left on down the range, but all inmates cover up their lights anyway. But even with the light switch, it doesn't cut off all the lights. It's a light switch. As soon as you go into the tier to the left and it shuts off the lights. But some work and some because you can't shut it off. And an inmate could still turn on his light, it doesn't shut the power off to him. Redacted. So they have access to their own interior lights? Thomas yeah, they do. Question. But the outside lights that you have access to, they remain on? Thomas they remain on 24. 7. Question they do. All right. And is this like they have to remain on type of thing? Thomas I guess so. Question. Okay. Thomas I don't know. Question all right. Now we're going to talk about the medical emergency. Was there a medical emergency in the shoe on the morning of August 10, 2019? Thomas yeah. Question why was the medical emergency called? Thomas When I went up to the cell to feed the tear, when I knocked on the door, seen Mr. Epstein, I said to come to the door, come to the door. And he didn't move. And then I said, I'm coming in. And then I went in and he was hanging. Question okay, when was the image, the medical emergency called? Thomas I called it immediately. I couldn't tell you the exact time. Question but you called it in? Thomas yeah, I yelled to Noel to get help. Question okay, so you've gone to the door, saw what you saw, and you yelled to immediately. Thomas yeah, well, when I got to the door, I couldn't see what I was seeing. When I popped it open, I seen what I saw and I yelled for help. Question so was the medical emergency called before you even entered the cell? Did you call Noel to call the medical Thomas yeah, I called for Noel to call for the medical emergency. Yes. Question Prior to entering? Thomas Right as soon as I entered. Right as soon as I entered. Question okay, so kind of like open the door and you said, call for help? Thomas yeah, exactly. Question that type of thing. And you ran in. Thomas Simultaneously Yes. Question okay, so at what time so if the medical emergency was called at 6:33am Approximately what time was Epstein discovered, Do you think, like a minute went by, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes? Thomas I can't tell you the exact time, but I know whenever I popped because I don't know what time the food card came. The food card came up. I don't remember if we set up all the tears first or we set it up. Usually how I do it is just set all the tiers and then I come back to the first tier and then I put it on. I don't remember if I did so or not, but when I got to this particular when I got to his cell, I got there, I came with food. I put all on the walking food cart that's there that you could take. Let's say it was 15 inmates up there that you take. Usually in the morning, there's two trays. I walked up there, I had it all set up. So if the food cart I don't know who was one. Certain people food cart comes early. Some people came up early. Let's say by the time I discovered by the time I would say, let's say if I went in there at 6, yelled the medical emergency at 6. O1. Question sorry. So the medical emergency was called at 6:33. Thomas 6:33. So I opened. He gets cut off. So I'm saying, Thomas the cell, if it's closer, I open the cell at 6:32. Question so approximately, probably like a minute. Thomas yeah, I couldn't have taken her because I Yelled to Noel. She yelled. It couldn't have taken more than 30 seconds for her to rush and yell for that emergency. Question alright, but you are the one that discovered Epstein in his cell? Thomas Yes, I am. Question okay, and who called the medical emergency? Thomas I would assume Noel. Did she yelled it over the radio or whatever. Question and that's what I was going to say. How was the medical emergency called? Did she call it on the radio? Did she have to call the police? How does it work? Thomas she could have called on the radio. She could have did either or she could have called over the radio shoe need assistance. She could have had the radio over the phone. I don't remember exactly which one that she did, but it could have been either one. Question do you know what what she said? What did you tell her at the time? Did you say, we need assistance? Thomas yeah, I said yeah, medical emergency, need help. Need help. Question need help? Thomas yeah, I don't know my exact words. I'm sure I just said to say we need help. Question okay. When was the last time you saw Epstein? Prior to the discovery. Thomas Prior to discovery the day that I sat with him. No, no. Probably the day prior. The day prior when I fed him. Question so the day prior? Thomas Day prior when I fed him. Question. On August 9th on your shift. Sometime between I guess in the morning, around like 6, 6:30. Thomas yeah, whatever. It's between 6 and 6:30. Question so approximately 24 hours before Thomas that I actually seen him. Question that you laid eyes on him? Thomas probably when I did my count. Like when you're talking about we actually fed, right. When I did my account that night. The night prior. The night when I did. Morning watch. Question all right, so you wouldn't have seen them. Did you feed them? Thomas I'm sure I did the feeding. Question but you don't actually put eyes on people when you do the feeding. Thomas yeah, when you do the feeding. So you have the feeding prior in that time Redacted. So I'm just saying when you looked at them, he gets cut off by Thomas oh, looked at him. Besides, he grabbed the tray and we spoke. Yeah. So probably about 24 hours before. Thomas 24 hours prior to that. Yeah, that morning watch on six when I did the feeding. Question and did you notice anything unusual when you last saw him? Thomas no. Question no. Thomas no. Just took his tray. Question do you know who was the last person to see Epstein alive? Thomas no. Question no. Thomas not there. Question do you remember hearing anything from Epstein's cell between the times of 12:00am and 6:33am Thomas. No question. So you never heard like any kind of banging or rustling or, you know, coughing? No movement or anything like that? Thomas. Huh? Question. All right. So you said when you discovered him, you were outside the door, you saw through the actual window, correct? Thomas yes. And that's when you noticed something was off? I noticed something was off. Anything like that? Yes. And where was Noel standing? Do you remember? I don't. I can't recall. Was she near you? Was she on the same tier? Do you know if she was, like, somewhere else? I don't. I really can't recall. I don't know.
- [11:30]
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Michael Thomas
to just be specific, I really don't know where she was standing, if she was standing at the grill or if she was standing at the base. I. I don't remember. Question when you're feeding the inmates, is she typically near you? Thomas no, she doesn't have to be. She could. Like I said, it all depends on how that day, like I said, we were both tired. She could have been setting up the rest of the tears if I didn't set up the tears. So until I yell for that help, that's the minute. And when I yell for help, she reacted to my yell. Question, when you yell for help, do you remember ever seeing her making sure she knew? Thomas I really can't recall. You just remember yelling. Thomas Because I'm in the cell. Yeah, I'm in the cell at that time. All right. Thomas But I know she heard me. Question. You know she heard you. Do you remember, like, her responding or anything? Like, I'm on it. Thomas I don't remember Question. Received. Copied. Anything? Thomas. I don't know. Question. So you just know that you yelled? Thomas. Yeah. Question. You don't know where she was? Thomas. I don't know where she was. She was just like at the grill or whatever. Maybe she was at the grill. I don't remember exactly where she was at, but I yelled and I know she called for help because help came. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Michael Thomas deposition with the OIG inspectors. Question. Alright, so when did you see Epstein? This is where we're going to have to get into a little more detail. Thomas. Sure. Question. What did you see? Thomas. He was hanging by a sheet. Question. So what was he hanging from? Thomas's bed? Question. From his bed? Thomas. Yes. Did you see the picture? Mitchell he needs a break. Question. You want to take a break? Thomas. Yeah. I got another 10 minutes here. I've got to go. Question. All right. Thomas. The hour and a half is up for the thing. Question. So we have 10 minutes. Thomas. Yeah. Question. All right, 10 minutes and then we'll take another little break. We're getting close. But so this can help us with this. When we were talking about the shoe. And just so can we get these maps out of there? Do you mind just initialing and dating this? Thank you, sir. Alright, so here's some pictures I want to show you. Is this. Was Epstein on L tier? Thomas. Yeah. See this is exactly what I'm saying. Like this is down from M tier, but yeah, he's on L tier. Okay. Where was his cell? Thomas. It would be back here. Question. Back on this side. Thomas. Yeah. Question. All right, what am I looking at here? Are you able to tell? Thomas. I couldn't tell you what tier it is, but it's just the hallway and that's the food cart. Question. Okay. Do you mind just initialing and dating that? Is this the door that you walked up to when you saw Thomas? If you say it is. Okay. Question. All right, so you can't even actually see that because it's crossed with, with this crime scene? Thomas. Huh? Question. Do you have any reason to believe that wouldn't be the door that you went into where Epstein was discovered? Thomas. I have no reason to believe it. Question okay, when you walked in, does this look like it was the same type of cell? Because all I'm going to ask is where he was hanging. Thomas he was hanging over here to the side. Question okay, so is this a picture? Thomas cuts him off yeah. Because if you put them together like the bunk, it's over to this side. Question alright, so is he hanging from something in there? Thomas yeah. Hanging. It was tied up right here. And then it ripped it down and I put him on the ground. So was this what he was tied to? Thomas it wasn't just that little thing. It was more stringed and then that I ripped it down. Question all right. Thomas maybe it's down there or something like that. Like I see string and stuff right here. Question do you just mind, like marking where it was, where the noose or whatever the rope was tied, just for clarity, what it was attached to? Thomas it was attached to the bunk. It's attached to the bunk. Question Is this it here though? Thomas yeah, it's attached to the bunk, to this general area right here. So just circle that general area. Thomas yeah. Question alright. You mind just initialing and dating that? Alright? Thomas Am I doing the same with this one? No. Well, you can if you want. I mean, you looked at it and do you believe. So did you take down this and somebody put it back up? Thomas no, it was attached to them. And it wasn't just that singular piece. It might have more rope to it. Question all right, there was more rope to it. Thomas yeah. Question but this is what, what was hanging. He was hanging. I don't know if that's a sheet or a shirt or whatever the case may be, but yeah. Thomas he was hanging from over there. Question from this area? Thomas yes. QUESTION all right. You mind just initialing and dating that? So when you went in, you found him. He, he was still hanging? Thomas yes. And what did you do? Thomas I ripped him down and I yelled for help and I started cpr. So how did you rip him down? Thomas yeah, I just ripped the sheet down. You ripped the sheet first? Thomas yeah. Question and then did you like pick him up or did you throw him on the floor? Thomas yeah. Or did he fall on the floor? Thomas Kind of just like got him to the floor. I ripped it off like that. And then he dropped, of course. And then I laid him onto the ground. Question okay, so he dropped, fall. Thomas well, it wasn't, as you can see, it's not that far. If you can see by the thing like that. Where's the picture. Question right here. Can I have the picture back? Thomas oh, the ground right there. Question sure. Thomas. Like if you take. He's maybe like plop two. He was maybe about an inch and a half or maybe an inch off the ground. Question so. Thomas like he was lower, he gets cut off. So after you rip this thing, did he just fall first? Thomas Just dropped down. Yeah. Question he just dropped down. Thomas huh? Question and then you moved him. So. All right. Thomas I didn't move him. Question so you rip the sheet, he falls to the floor and then you move him where you could start cpr? Thomas yeah, so I could lay him down and start cpr. Alright. Do you remember if his like, if anything of his body hit anywhere? Thomas I don't remember when he fell, no. I don't remember his body hitting anywhere. Question the reason why we're asking is like with the autopsy, we've got to make sure of that. Thomas yeah, yeah. Just like a drop down. All right, so he dropped basically. Do you remember if he landed on his butt? Thomas yeah. On his butt. Yeah. He landed on his butt here. Question he landed on his butt. Thomas yeah. Question but his head remained upright. Thomas Nah, I'm sure he gets cut off. I don't mean upright like looking at you, but I mean like his body remained upright. Thomas I would guess he was just limped over. I would say just limped over. Okay. Thomas. And I just. He gets cut off. And then you physically moved him? Thomas. To the floor. Yes. All right. Do you remember if like anything hit harder than another when you moved him? Thomas I don't really. He gets cut off to the floor. I don't remember other than that. Yeah, no worries. Alright. So he was still hanging. That was the position that you found him in. You ripped him off, he fell to the ground. You then moved him to the ground. What was he wearing at the time? Do you remember? Thomas Pants. QUESTION Was he naked or anything like that? Or he still had his clothes on? Thomas he wasn't naked. He wasn't naked. I'm going to say. I want to say he had a jumper on. He had his jumper. How they. It's not all the way up to the top right here, but it's like around the waist. So maybe he had pants on. I do remember. He wasn't totally naked. Question okay. Thomas and he wasn't in his boxer shorts or anything like that, but he was. He had no shirt on. He didn't have a shirt on. Question he didn't have a shirt on. All Right. You said this was still around his neck when he fell off. Did that come away from his neck? THOMAS yeah. He didn't have anything around his neck when he came up. Yeah. Question okay, and what was it that was around his neck? Question or ANSWER I mean. THOMAS it was either a sheet or a shirt. I don't know which one it is, a sheet or a shirt. I didn't really pay attention to it. Now, are the sheets and the shirts both orange? THOMAS yes. Okay, so it wasn't. You weren't able to tell if it was. Thomas cuts him off I couldn't tell you if it was a sheet or a shirt. No, I didn't. Question okay. THOMAS I didn't look to see what it was. Now, what did he look like? THOMAS White male. I don't know. Question Was he like completely purple? THOMAS no, absolutely not. He was just, he looked like he'd been hanging, like he'd just hung himself. It wasn't like he was red or blue or his lips like a different color. It wasn't any of that stuff. QUESTION it looked like it happened just recently. THOMAS I mean, I'm not a doctor to tell you if I'm a doctor. I just he didn't look, I don't say he looked any different. I mean, he just like he just hung himself. It wasn't no discoloration of anything like that, if that's what you're trying to get. And it's like, like he just hung himself. Question all right, so you don't. He didn't look at that that much different than when he looked when he was alive? Thomas yeah. Didn't look. Question he looked pretty much the same. Thomas yeah. Question okay, and you said, or did you notice anything unusual in his cell when you went in? THOMAS no, I didn't. Question no. And you said that you started cpr? Thomas yeah. Question what did you do? Thomas I started chest compressions. QUESTION Just chest compressions? THOMAS yeah, just chest compressions. QUESTION Any kind of, like, mouth to mouth? THOMAS no, I didn't do any mouth to mouth. I was doing chest compressions. It took maybe about. It wasn't that long before they came with the thing and they started doing all the other stuff. I can't remember the medic's name, the guy, I can't remember his name. Question all right, did he stay all kinds, was it all kinds of right there next to the bed? Thomas yeah, it was right there. Did you have to move them out at all? Thomas no, because they did. They was doing the AED and everything right there inside the cell. So right in the corner of that bunk. Thomas it's not in the corner. It can stretch out like, you know, he gets interrupted. No, no. I'm saying for you, when you're doing your chest compressions. Thomas no, when I'm doing my chest compressions, he's laying out right here. A few feet maybe. All right here. But he's laying about right here, like about this way. Question okay. Thomas. Without the wall, of course. Question. But. So he was on the floor? Thomas he was on the floor. Question. While you were doing the cpr, you didn't really have to move him that much. Thomas I did not. Question. After you, like, moved them from the hanging position to the ground to the floor. Chest compressions immediately. Thomas. Yes. Question all right. Did you do anything else? Thomas Other than the chest compressions? Question? Thomas. No. Soon thereafter, there was a whole bunch of staff there.
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- [25:21]
Michael Thomas
Question about how long were you doing the chest compressions for? Thomas Maybe a minute or so. I don't. I can't really recall. You don't remember? Thomas it seemed like the blink of an eye before everybody was around me. Did he seem like he was dead at the time? Thomas no, he didn't. He actually seemed like he was alive. I don't really want to say dead or alive, but I was doing chest compressions. I mean, I'm not a doctor, so anything like that, but I just know. I just keep going. I don't know if he was dead or anything at the time. Question did you notice if he had like, did you check for a pulse or anything like that? Thomas the doctor was there. I know. I was doing chest compressions. I didn't stop to check for a pulse. I let the medical staff do that because it was somebody from medical doing that. Question. So how did you know to do chest compressions if you didn't? He gets cut off. I mean, I don't know if somebody looked like they're not breathing or anything like that. He's not talking, I'm yelling out his name. He's not responding. Question. So did you check for breath? Thomas? Yeah, I did a check for breath question. So prior to doing chest compressions, you check for breath? Thomas? Yeah, I check for breath. Question. And how did you do that? Thomas? I just, when I would go like this, I was telling Epstein like, yo, Epstein, Epstein. He wasn't breathing. So that's my interpretation of checking. I'm yelling, he's not breathing. He. He's not calling to me, he's not saying anything. Question. So I guess what I'm asking, Thomas, did I put my hand over and check for a breath? Yeah, yeah. No, I did not. So you didn't like he gets cut off? No, I was yelling for his name and everything to see if he was like doing like anything that. And there I'm like, epstein, Epstein, I'm pushing his upper torso. Alright, so you didn't feel for a pulse or check for a breath? Thomas? No, I didn't do all that stuff, no. Question. Alright, but you believed he wasn't breathing? Question. I don't know if he was breathing or not. I know he was just hanging, so I was just trying to get him to start. Question. So you saw him hanging and just your natural reaction then was to. Thomas? Absolutely. Question. So you don't actually know if he was breathing? Thomas? I don't know. Question. You don't know if he was breathing, so you don't know if he was alive or not? Thomas? I don't know if he was alive or not, no. Question. Okay, so just. All right, so you didn't actually check for anything, you just went right to chest compressions? Thomas? Yeah. Went to chest compressions and yelling. I wasn't getting no response. Question. Okay, did you like hit him or anything first? Thomas? No. Question. Like trying to wake him up? Thomas. I just kept yelling his name and I'm shaking him and doing chest compressions. That should be enough to wake somebody up for somebody to. Hey, hey. Like that. I didn't. He gets cut off. Didn't they teach you CPR though? Thomas? Yeah, that's part of the art. Question. Did they teach you that prior to doing cpr you're supposed to like check to see if they're alive first? Thomas? Prior to cpr, the standard model is check for airways and everything like that. But in the course of the moment, I didn't slow down and say, let me see. I check for responsiveness and that's exactly what I did. When I'm yelling your name, that's checking for a response question, right? Thomas I wasn't getting any response. QUESTION okay, no, the only reason I'm going more into detail is because you said you aren't sure and if he was alive or not. THOMAS uh huh. I understand. No, I'm just trying to figure out if there's more questions I need to ask with regard to that. THOMAS no problem. At any time when you were doing chest compressions or any of that, did he ever open his eyes or seem to take a breath? Not that I recall. I don't remember really. Okay. All right. Did Noel ever enter the cell to assist you? Thomas I don't remember. I remember seeing her. I don't know if she was in the cell. There were so many people in that cell in such a short period of time. So I really don't remember if she was one of the people or not. I can only remember actually two faces at this present time. One is the medical person, I can't remember his name. And the other one is. QUESTION how do you spell redacted? THOMAS Redacted QUESTION okay, who is that? Thomas Officer? QUESTION Just an officer that came in. Response. THOMAS all right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Michael Thomas deposition with the OIG inspectors. QUESTION and I'm sorry, you may have said this, but I don't recall. After you did chest compressions, you said you did it for like a minute before they responded. THOMAS yeah, maybe about a minute. Nothing more than a minute. Okay? THOMAS it seemed like a flash. QUESTION okay. THOMAS it seemed like a flash that everybody was inside the room. QUESTION okay, and when they came in, what did they do? THOMAS Once the medical staff, I can't remember his name. Once he came and was doing chest compressions. I know I got a little exhausted and tired and everything like that. He was doing chest compressions, he put the AED on and that's about all I can remember that the guy put the AED on and I know he told me to stand back. QUESTION all right, and did you, did he check for a breath or pulse? THOMAS I really can't remember. QUESTION do you know when they put the AED on, did it ever advise for a shock or anything like that. Thomas I don't remember. Question. You don't recall? Thomas I don't remember. Question. So when they came in, did you stay in the room or at that point? Thomas yeah, I stayed in the room. Question. Okay. Thomas I actually helped to carry him downstairs. Question. All right, and was that medical personnel? Thomas. He was with us the whole time. Question. And what was his name? Thomas I can't really remember. Question no. Thomas. Question but he's the one who took over chest compressions. Thomas. Yeah, he took over chest compressions. He was in the room the whole time. Question. All right. And you said you were trained on CPR though? Thomas yeah. Question okay, do you know when the last time you were trained on cpr? Thomas had to be art? Question Art, are you always every year trained on cpr? Thomas Every year at art, there's training. Question okay, so like April of 2019 have been the last time? Thomas. Okay. Question all right, so after a medical emergency called. Walk me through that a little bit in detail, what happened? So he came, the medical person comes in, he starts going chest compressions. About how long is he doing that? Thomas I don't know. I don't know how long he was doing them before he put the AED on. I couldn't tell you how long he was on, but before he actually put the aed because the AED right on the. You see the one right there? And shoe, I know there's one right there on the ninth floor. So I don't know how long ago that he was doing chest compressions before he actually put the AED on. I couldn't tell you. Maybe 30 seconds, I don't know. Question and at that time, did you believe that he was alive or dead? Thomas I had so many things going through my mind. I was just hoping everything worked out. Question okay, so what was going through your mind at the time? Thomas A whole lot. What's going on? There's a man in front of me. You know what I mean? That's it. Just that it's a man in front of me hanging. I just seen him hanging. Question yeah, had you ever had to respond to something like that before? Thomas yeah. Question so you've actually had to take people off from hanging on things? Thomas no, I've responded to like I've maybe seen one other hanging, but they cut him down and like that. But he was actually gotten alive when they were indiscernible. But yeah, I've seen a few. Question okay, and you have to do the same type of thing. Thomas well, nothing to where they had to put the AED on a person. Just some chest compressions and they were revived. Anybody else die from it? Thomas not that I would recall, no. Question all right, but now you did say you ripped it down. You didn't cut it down? Thomas yeah, I just tipped it down. Ripped it down in the past, they actually cut it down, is what you just said. Thomas I don't know. Oh, I thought you just said that people were hanging. They cut it down? THOMAS maybe if they cut it or if they ripped it down, I don't know. Whatever they had at their disposal at the time. Question okay, though, did you ever have to he gets cut off by Thomas Cut somebody down? Thomas no, this was my first time. Question that was your first time ever being the first responder? Thomas yes. Question okay, and do they train you on that? On if you come in and find someone hanging, what you're supposed to do? Thomas I don't remember specific training on like that, but I'm not mistaken. It's life, limb or something for the Bureau or something. I know I'm not supposed to just let somebody sit there and hang. Question no, I'm just saying, like, do they teach you how to, like, respond to these things? Thomas maybe it's something in art training, I don't know. Question okay, so you know, CPR was done in art. You're not sure if it was. In response, he gets cut off by. Thomas it's in a particular response to if you see somebody hanging, you do this. No. QUESTION Right. Okay, but is that something that occurs a lot people inmates hanging themselves at McC? Thomas not a lot. But, you know, sometimes people have. You don't know what someone else's stressors are they going through at home or what they're in for? Question yeah, I guess what I'm asking is like, does this happen like once a week, once a month, or once a year? Question Mr. Thomas I've been there for 14 years. He's been there a lot longer than me. I've seen maybe about seven hangings. Question Seven hangings? Thomas huh? QUESTION so if you were to estimate about one every two years. THOMAS if you want to break it down to that. Question okay, what did you do after the medical emergency was called? Thomas After I got him down, he gets cut off. No, I'm sorry. After they responded, what did you do? Thomas after they responded, I helped carry him downstairs. Question you help them? Thomas yeah, I helped them on the stretcher carry him downstairs. Question now downstairs, he gets cut off by Thomas to the Medical floor, It's the second floor. Question so if you went all the way from the shoe all the way to the second floor? THOMAS yes. QUESTION okay. And you were with them the whole time? THOMAS Yes, I was with them the whole time and the medical staff was with me and it was a bunch of other people in the elevator at the time. QUESTION and what were you doing during that time? Thomas I was holding the stretcher. QUESTION because you were one of the people. Thomas yeah. QUESTION so was it just you and someone else? THOMAS yeah, me and three other people holding the stretcher. I don't know who else was in there holding the stretcher staff helping bringing him down? QUESTION so it was an actual stretcher that you had to carry, not something like was moving them? Thomas yeah, yeah. It's on a stretcher, they have stretchers on the wall and near like that you have to carry. You get them to the thing and then you just go. QUESTION did they continue life saving efforts? Thomas the whole time? QUESTION so while he was being moved in the stretcher people were like doing compressions? THOMAS Yep. QUESTION Was there anything like on his face trying to give him air or anything like that? THOMAS I don't recall. I don't really remember. QUESTION okay, do you have pictures of that stuff? We actually have a ton of pictures for each. Do you remember? Recall was this like what's up baby?
- [38:14]
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- [38:42]
Michael Thomas
Is that in medical? THOMAS it looks like I don't know if that's the ninth floor. Is that for no, it says right here that's ems. Question that's EMS all right. So this isn't anything that's in the cell or anything like that, what we're talking about? Thomas no, that's not, no, no, that's not. QUESTION this is after all the medical. Thomas yeah, that's all. Medical. QUESTION do they know if any pictures were taken while you were doing this medical emergency? THOMAS I doubt it. I'm sure nobody stopped to grab a camera. QUESTION yeah, no, just because we have all these. THOMAS and again, I'M not still I didn't mean nothing by indiscernible Question so none of these pictures have anything to do with you? Thomas. No. Question Were you even in the room during that? Thomas I wasn't in the room for none of that. Question okay, it doesn't look like we have any pictures of that stuff. So from the shoe all the way down to the second floor, you stay with them, you were carrying the stretcher and someone was doing compressions Thomas. Yup Question and trying to revive him Thomas. So you said that responded to a medical personnel I remember seeing and seeing the medical personnel and I'm sure the lieutenant was there. Question do you remember who the lieutenant was? Thomas. No but I can remember who was there. Question does lieutenant redacted sound familiar? Does that make or help you recall? Thomas I mean maybe, maybe he was there. Question so we can go back to that duty agent roster. Thomas. It shows that he came on in the morning Question yeah Thomas. But you know the two hour prior but he probably was there Question so you think it was probably him and do you remember making any statements after the medical emergency ride? Thomas. I don't remember what I said I could have been saying a whole lot. I mean like I said, I just seen a man hanging sure. Thomas. You know I don't remember exactly verbatim what I said or anything. Do you recall Noel saying we didn't do our rounds at 3am and 5am Thomas. I don't recall her saying that all right Thomas. I don't remember seeing Noel after this actually after I carried him downstairs I don't even remember seeing Noel Question do you recall saying to Noel that we didn't do the rounds? Did you say that it was not Noel's fault and say we didn't do the rounds, we messed up? Thomas I don't remember saying that. I could have said that. I don't remember saying it. So you don't remember saying it's not her fault? Thomas. No, I don't remember saying anything Like I said, I don't know what I said exactly from that time it was three years ago Question all right so my only question was so that's the statement we have is that you stated she said we didn't do the rounds and you said we didn't do the rounds we messed up. It's not Noel's fault and I was just wondering why you would say that it wasn't her fault do you remember? Thomas I really don't. I really don't. Question yeah, you were just uttering things. Thomas. Just uttering things. Like I said, I don't remember saying that. I don't remember not saying that. I don't remember that was said or who said that. I said that. Like I said I don't remember saying it. Question. Okay, so it wasn't like. The only reason that I asked is that it sounds like you were taking responsibility for the rounds and the counts and I just wanting to know if there was a reason why you would have been taking responsibility. Like we said, you're both responsible. Thomas. Indiscernible question. So I don't know why you take responsibility over her and saying it's not her fault. Thomas. I don't know why I said anything like that if I said it. Question. You don't know. Thomas. Like I said, I don't remember. There was a lot going on. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
- [43:00]
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