← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 4-6) (5/16/26)
00:41:38
Michael Thomas was a veteran correctional officer employed by the Federal Bureau of Prisons at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan — a federal detention facility — where Jeffrey Epstein was being held in the Special Housing Unit (SHU)...
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to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Pros Save more on the materials you need to get the job done inside and out at Lowe's. Right now, get 10% off in stock Trex Naturals decking now available in more styles. Plus get 15% off select custom entry, interior and storm doors. Then we'll deliver it all straight to your job site. To help keep your jobs moving, get the brand's pros trust priced right and ready when you need them. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through 527, while supplies last selection varies by location. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. Question and are you aware that Epstein was assigned any cellmate when he was assigned to the Shoe? Thomas. I'm sure he was. Maybe he was. I don't really recall. Question. So you don't recall if he had a cellmate or not? Thomas. I know one time he had a cellmate. I don't recall like if he was assigned a specific cellmate or not. Or for his case, whatever the case, but I'm sure he had a cellmate unless he was cell or wrecked alone. Question. Okay. Do you know if Epstein was required to have a cellmate when he was assigned to the Shoe? No. No one provided any instruction. Um, was there a sign posted within the shoe saying that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? Thomas. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so. Do you ever recall there being a sign posted on his door saying he was required to have a cellmate? Thomas no. Question. Do you ever remember a sign being posted on the officer in charge's desk area where or computer saying that he was required to have a cellmate? Thomas I don't go to his office. The officer in charge. I don't. So is that different than where you would sit in the shoe area? Thomas the officer in charge or the lieutenant office? Not the lieutenant. The oic. Thomas. The oic. Well, the OIC has a desk. I didn't See a sign? I don't remember or recall ever seeing a sign that was specific to Epstein? No. Okay, so no one ever talked to you about the fact that Epstein needed a cellmate? Thomas? No, I don't recall anybody specifically talking about he needs a cellmate or not. Okay. Do you know who Nicholas Tartaglioni is? Yes. And who is he? Thomas? An inmate at mcc. Question. Do you know if he was ever assigned as Epstein's cellmate in July of 2019? Thomas? Yeah, I remember he was a cellmate when that incident happened. He was actually a cellmate of his. Question. So from July 23, 2019? Thomas? Yeah, that's the 23rd question. So he was his cellmate up until that date? Thomas? I don't know if it was up until that date. I just remember that particular day. Tartaglioni was his cellmate that day. Alright, and are you aware of any issues that took place between Epstein and Tartaglione? Thomas? No question. So you don't know what transpired at all for that gets cut off by Thomas for them? No question. Okay. And you didn't respond to any kind of incident. Did you respond on July 23, Thomas, to that incident? Yes, Me and another officer responded at the time. And by the time we got there, because I got there after the other officer got there and we just took him out. Question. What other officer got there? Thomas? Who was it? I. I don't remember the two officers that were on duty that day. But the other officer that was there, it was redacted. Question. And he worked in the shoe? Thomas? No, he didn't. I don't remember if redacted was working in the shoe or not, but I remember when we responded, I remember it was me and redacted. I honestly couldn't tell you who the other two officers on duty up there were. Maybe Redacted was one of the officers. But I know when we responded, when we go there, I remember seeing redacted. Were you working at the SHU at the time? No, I was internal that day. Alright, so I'm assuming that you weren't the first to arrive. No, I wasn't the first to arrive. No, absolutely not. Okay, so that's what I thought you meant by being the second one there. So can you just explain what you meant by that? Thomas? From what I can remember, I wasn't the first to respond. I wasn't the first person on site, but I did eventually get there. Question. Okay, so you were one of the first responders? Thomas? I was one of the responding, yes. Question. And when you go there, what did you see? Thomas by the time I got there, they were actually. They were actually just bringing them out. Question Bringing who out? Thomas Mr. Epstein. They were bringing out Mr. Epstein. Question. Out of his cell? Thomas out of his cell, yeah. Question where were they bringing him to? Thomas we was taking him to the suicide, which is down to the second floor. Question. Okay, so they were moving him from the shoe to the suicide watch area. Thomas. To the suicide watch area on the second floor. Question and do you know why he was removed? Thomas I guess they say he tried to commit suicide or whatever. Redacted. Okay. Did you hear anything about Tartaglioni attempting to harm Epstein? Thomas I can't recall what he would say. I think he said he tried to beat him up or something like that. I think he said he tried to beat him up. I really don't remember the exact details of what he was saying. Question. Okay. Thomas. But I think he said he was trying to beat me up or something like that. Redacted. So Epstein was claiming that Thomas trying to beat him up or something like that. Question Was he saying that he didn't try to commit suicide, but rather that Tartaglioni was trying to harm him? Thomas I remember him saying that Tartaglioni was trying to beat him up. I remember him saying that. Redacted. Okay. And did he tell you that? Thomas he was just saying that? Well, we were talking, so yes, he did tell me that. When we were talking. Question. Was that when you responded or during your psychological observation or suicide watch observation? Thomas it was just when we were in observation together. Question. Okay. Thomas When I say he was really incoherent, he was just saying, because actually me and redacted was there for a while. It wasn't just me by myself for maybe 10, 15 minutes. When we got him, let's say half an hour, got him there, got him declothed, got him into the suicide room, and then the lieutenant was there. Who was the lieutenant there? I can't remember. Who was the lieutenant there? And because I don't have keys and stuff for that, for the suicide room. Questioned what is redacted's first name? Are you aware? Thomas I really don't know. Question. You don't know? THOMAS I really don't know. Question. That's fine. Did you, when you responded, did you see any kind of like orange homemade rope or anything like that? Thomas no, I didn't notice. Question. That was used to try to. He gets cut off by. Thomas I don't remember seeing Any of that stuff? Question. No. So. But you did have a conversation with Epstein about Tartaglioni trying to harm him? Thomas he said that Tartaglioni tried. I remember him saying he was trying to harm him. And that was it? Yeah. Okay. And did you believe that to be true? Thomas. I didn't. No. I don't. I really didn't. So do you think he was using it? Why do you think he said it? He just wanted to get out of the cell? I don't know. I really don't. I really don't know. Question. Okay, but you didn't believe it. You believe that he was actually trying to harm himself rather than the other cellmate trying to harm him? Thomas Inmates say things. I really don't know if he was. I really don't know. I really don't know. Just me at the time. I was just sitting there. He wanted to talk. I'm there. Why not talk? Question. Absolutely. But it didn't cause you concern when he was saying that another inmate was trying to harm him? Thomas. Well, it was passed up and everything like that because when he came out, he said it was said it to the lieutenant and everything like that. So everybody was known. But as far as anything, any concern. No. Inmates harm each other all the time. Question. Sure. Do you know if at that time Tartaglioni. Thomas. It's all right. I can't pronounce his name either. Redacted. Tartaglioni was moved and. And no longer Epstein's cellmate? Thomas I'm sure if they said he tried to harm. I'm sure he was no longer his cellmate after that. I'm sure. Okay. Do you know around how long he was on suicide watch and then psychological observation outside of the shoe? Thomas. No. Alright. So does July 23rd to approximately July 30th sound to be about right? Thomas. I don't know. Question sure. Thomas. I don't work in that area. Question. No, that's fine. So if Epstein came back to the shoe on July 30, 2019, do you know if he was assigned another cellmate? Thomas. I'm sure they wouldn't put him back in the same one. So I would say yes, I don't know specifically, but he gets cut off. But he added another cellmate. Thomas. Maybe he could have been solo. I don't know. I really don't know. Question. Do you recall checking, being that he's such a high profile inmate, you know, in the shoe? Do you remember ever, you know, when you were in the shoe? You Remember seeing two people in his cell? Thomas. I really don't recall. Question. You don't know? Thomas. I mean, it could have been two people. It could have been him by himself. I really don't remember. Mr. Redacted. Do you know what inmate Thomas Exactor counts? Sure, I'll try to help your recollection. Do you recall an inmate named Efren Reyes? Thomas. No question. So you don't remember that name? Thomas. No question. So he was Epstein's cellmate from July 30 through August 9, 2019. Thomas. Okay. Are you not familiar with that? Thomas. No, I don't know who that is. Question. Okay. Were you there at all when Epstein was returned from suicide watch, psychological observation area back to the shoe? Thomas. No question. No. So you're not sure if Reyes was already in the cell or not? Thomas. I'm not sure. Like I said, if you could look at that thing, a morning watch. So they're all in their cells, tucked in at that time. So I couldn't tell you who was in there. Gets cut off. Okay. And do you know anything about Reyes being removed from the MCC on August 9, 2019? Thomas. No, I don't. Question. You don't know that. So on August 9, when you probably got there and through August 10, when you worked there, that wasn't discussed at all, that Reyes was removed and Epstein was without a cellmate? Thomas. No question. No. You didn't have that discussion with. You didn't work with that night? Thomas. Well, I know the 10th. I know who I work with. The 9th. I don't know who I was up there with. Redacted. In the shoe. Thomas. Yeah. Question. You're not familiar with who you were with in the shoe? Thomas. On the 9th? Question. No. On the 10th. Thomas. On the 10th. Yeah. Ms. Noel, question. So I'm sorry, when I said the 9th, I meant you probably arrived at the institution prior to 12am Thomas. Yeah, I arrived to it, but I didn't go straight up there. I went down to the office for. I didn't go straight up to the shoe. Redacted. Okay, Right. So that's what I'm saying. You arrived there on the night of August 9th and then worked in the Shoe from midnight August 10th to 8pm or 8am Excuse me, Mr. Thomas. Oh, see. Okay, now I see what you're saying. Yeah, I got there, let's say at 11:50 or 10 minutes prior to try to be there a little early. But I thought when you keep saying the 9th, as it shows, I worked on the 9th, that's why. But if I got there on the 9th at 10:50, Ms. Noel was up there. I can't remember who the other person was because it's usually two people. It had to be two people. I can't remember who the other person was.
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Q U-E-T.com Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited visits. BenQuest.com for more details. Question. Sure. And so I'll just ask that last question to make sure that we're on the same page. When you arrived prior to your August 10th shift on August 9th at approximately 11:50pm Was Reyes discussed? Inmate Reyes or the fact that Epstein was without a cellmate? Mr. Thomas no. Question no. Okay. And do you know if Epstein should have been assigned a cellmate? Mr. Thomas. I don't know. Well, usually if you're committed, if someone commits, they usually try to not put them by themselves. Question Right. So if you come back from suicide watch or psychological observation, you're supposed to have a cellmate. Mr. Thomas. Huh? Question correct. Mr. Thomas. But that would have been done prior to my shift. That wouldn't have been done on the morning watch. Shift no movement happens on the morning watch. That happens prior to my shift. Question Absolutely. But just my point being that people that come off the psychological observation or suicide watch, they're required to have a cellmate, correct? Mr. Thomas yes. Question okay. And is there some kind of, like, hot list that's in there? Thomas it is. I do recall you're saying hot list. There's something called the hot list. I don't know where it's at or anything like that, but I'm sure they do have something called the hot list. Question what is the hot list? Mr. Thomas. The MCC definition of it? I don't know. I know. It's just inmates that are. It could be inmates that are cellies. It could be. That means that they're in the cell rack alone. It could be the inmate suicide watch. It could be the inmate's mental instability. Question. Okay. Mr. Thomas. Hot list. It's a culmination of a bunch of different things. Redacted question why are people placed on the hot list? Mr. Thomas I don't place people on the hot list. I don't know. That's psychology. Question. Yes. So if it's up there, though, for people to see that this is the hot list, is there, like, a reason? Is. Is it something like these people all need cellmates. These people need special attention? These people? Thomas. I really don't know. I couldn't tell you that. It's just like a hot list. I know it's a hot list. The psychology put. I don't know if it's particularly that all these people need cellmates or the hot list or. I know that there's something called the hot list at mcc. I don't know where they or where you get on the hot list. Question. So not what it takes to get on it, but why it's posted there. Like, if you're on the hot list, what does that mean? Thomas? Like I said, it could have been. He gets cut off. So if there is a description next to a name, does it say you're on the hot list because of this reason? Thomas. I really can't remember. Okay, but there is a hot list within the shoe. Thomas. Yeah, there is a hot list. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna dive right back in and pick up where we left off with the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG Insp. Question. So you recall a hot list? You don't remember seeing it? Thomas? I don't remember seeing it, no question. Okay, so you never, like, reviewed it or anything? Thomas? I don't remember reviewing it. No, I don't. Question. Were you supposed to, if you were assigned to the shoe, were you supposed to say, oh, these people are on the hot list? I need to take special care of these people? Thomas. I don't think so. No. Question. No. Thomas. I don't think so. I don't think it was anything special. Care about these people or not? Absolutely not. Question. So what would be the purpose of posting a hot list, then? Who would it be for? Thomas, it's for the staff in the shoe question, right? Thomas? It's for the staff in the shoe question. So if your staff in the shoe, doesn't that mean that you're supposed to look at it? Thomas? Supposed to. For the staff? Yeah, you're supposed to look at it. Question. All right. But you didn't. Thomas I would say no. I didn't look at it that night. No question. Fair enough. So do you know if Epstein was on the hot list? Thomas. I don't know if he was on the hot list. But do you know he was on suicide watch and that he should have had a cellmate? Thomas. Yes, I knew that he was a suicide person. Yes. Okay, now, could Shustaff have assigned Epstein a new cellmate? Thomas. Could Shustaff do it? I don't know if Shustaff could do it. I know the SHU lieutenant or something like that could do it, but I don't know if Shustaff could just give him. I don't know. So who would be responsible for assigning Epstein a new cellmate? So let me restate that. If it wasn't clear Reyes was his cellmate, he was required to have a cellmate because he was on suicide watch. Thomas. Yeah. Question. And psychology made sure, or was supposed to make sure that everyone knew that he was supposed to have a cellmate. Thomas. Okay, question. So if Reyes leaves as a cellmate on August 9, 2019, who would be responsible for replacing a new cellmate with Epstein? Thomas. Honestly, I don't know. I'm sure it has to come from somebody up high, obviously a lieutenant, or it could have sometimes high profile. Could come from administration. Question. Okay, answer. Whatever the case may be, so specifically, I really don't know, but I know what somebody higher up has to give them higher up than me. Question. Okay, answer. I don't think an officer would just put somebody in there with them. Question. Okay, now is that discussed at all, like during any of those trainings or the suicide prevention training, is it discussed like, hey, if you know this guy is on suicide watch, make sure he's got a cellmate? Thomas. I don't think so. I don't think it's discussed like that. No, I don't. Question. All right, so how, how do you know that if you're on suicide watch? They should, the inmate should have a cellmate. Thomas. I mean, we were told, you're told before that if an inmate is previously been on suicide, that he has a cellmate. Question. So I guess what I'm asking is when were you told that and where? Thomas. I've been there for 14. I mean, I can't remember exactly. Question. So possibly training. Thomas. Possibly training, word of mouth, like, but I don't know. Question. You knew it, but you just don't remember where you learned it from? Thomas. Yeah, that's Correct. But then you have inmates that go on suicide watch and come back that don't have a cellmate. So I've seen that also have inmates go there, come off suicide and not have a cellmate. Question. Would there be a reason for a person who came off suicide watch to not to have a cellmate? Mr. Thomas I don't know the reason or anything. Like I said, that's also the psychology personnel that handle that. But I have seen also with inmates come up and they go into a cell by themselves. Question. Okay, and again, I don't know that this was clear. If you're working in the shoe and you know someone is supposed to have a cellmate, are you authorized to provide them with a new cellmate? Mr. Thomas I don't know. Question. You don't know? Thomas I don't know. Question. Have you ever done it? Thomas? No, I've never done it. Question. You have never done that? Thomas no, I've never just put somebody inside. Are we talking about suicide? I've never just put somebody in a cell with somebody else. Question. Okay. Thomas. Especially not at Morning watch. Absolutely not. Question. As someone in the shoe working in there and knowing someone without a cellmate that should have a cellmate, should you report it to the lieutenant? Thomas if they don't have a cellmate, should you report it to the lieutenant? I don't know. I mean, usually if that happens, the lieutenant. Because with certain inmates, you can't just put somebody in with them like that. It could be a racial thing. It could have been a previous incident. He could be whatever the the case may be. So I know officers don't want to just do it because when they say that the person can't be with them. And also, before you put an inmate inside, you have to check their background as far as steps. So this person can't be with this person or this one is affiliated with this and this person. So for an officer, because some officers don't have the programming, I mean, don't have the thing just to say, oh, well, I'm going to see inmate this and I'm going to put him into that. And so that's why an officer wouldn't just put an inmate inside with another. You know what I mean? It has to come down from up top. All right, from your knowledge being that Reyes left and Epstein is required to have a cellmate and didn't have one, do you believe shu's staff should have assigned Epstein a new cellmate? I don't know. So per your training and your work Experience. Thomas should shoe staff have assigned them? No, I believe that should have come from somebody else above them. Question. Okay, Thomas Somebody above the shoe staff. Question. So if the shoe staff doesn't inform anyone about an inmate required to have a cellmate that they don't, how do people hire above them learn that there is no cellmate with someone like Epstein? Thomas. Well, whoever is on shift at the time, it's a process. Like if someone leaves and goes from R D, a staff member can't just let somebody leave. You know, I can't just let somebody walk. Just because he walk in and then he walks out. He has to come from R D. Oh, this person was released. And then, because then the base count changes and then so it's notified before it gets to the shoe staff that somebody left. Now, if it wasn't, you know, that specific that Rey has left, you know what I mean? That Jeffrey Epstein. I know before it gets to the shoe staff happened to put somebody in there, it has to come from someone else. To know that inmates left from a particular housing unit or shoe have to tell them the inmate left from a particular. Now, whether they know that it was Epstein's cellmate that left, I don't know. That's above me. But it comes from way up. It comes from before it gets to the shoe staff that somebody left. The only thing that shoe staff is going to get is a call saying that, oh, base count changed. Such and such is not there. Question. So if the people that are calling SHU and saying, hey, this inmate is leaving. So is this instance. It would be August 9th. Shoestaff, you weren't there. But shoe staff gets the call. And hey, if inmate Reyes is leaving, do those people know that Reyes was assigned to Epstein? Thomas I mean, I'm sure they should have. Question. Or would the shoe staff be responsible for saying he's leaving, but Epstein is required to have a cellmate that's Epstein's cellmate. How does that information get passed along? Thomas I don't know. Question. Okay. Thomas I don't know when that particular when that will happen. I really couldn't tell you when that call would actually go down.
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social casino Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Question okay, and this is specific to you. If you said you didn't but you would been authorized to assign Epstein a new cellmate during your shift on August 10, 2019. Thomas Would I have been authorized to do it? Question Right. So if you knew that Epstein was required to have a cellmate. THOMAS if somebody would have told me to give him, I wouldn't have just taken it upon myself to take an inmate out from X and put him in there with Epstein. No, if somebody authorized me to put him in there, then I would have put him in there. Question but you wouldn't have that authorization to do it independently. THOMAS Independently, no. Question so you couldn't on your own make the decision, hey, he's without an inmate, he's without a cellmate. I need to get a new inmate in there. THOMAS I'm going to say no, okay? THOMAS I'm going to say no. Not especially with a high profile. You're not just going to put somebody in with somebody else. Absolutely not. All right. And obviously since you didn't know, I believe I already know the answer to this. But did you notify anyone during your shift on August 10th that Epstein did not have a cellmate? Thomas no. Question no. Alright, now we're going to talk a little bit about staff psychologists, because you mentioned them. Do you know who the MCC staff psychologists were in August of 2019? Thomas Dr. Redacted. Is Dr. Redacted. The chief? THOMAS yeah, the chief or whatever it's called. Are you aware of Epstein meeting with any of the staff psychologists during his stay at the mcc? THOMAS no. QUESTION no. THOMAS no, I'm not. Question so would have THOMAS Cuts him off, I'm sure if he went on suicide, I'm sure he met with them, but I don't know specifically that they go on this date and he met with them. If he was on suicide watch, I'm sure he met with someone. Question now, who places someone on suicide watch? THOMAS Psychology. QUESTION okay, so if Epstein, like you said, was on suicide watch, would psychology then place him there? THOMAS well, a psychology will say that he has to go there and then the staff, the custody staff would actually take him to the suicide area. Question okay, and just briefly, what is suicide watch? Answer It's a place where you watch somebody on suicide, like you said. Did you say the second floor? THOMAS it's on the second floor. So the second floor is a separate area. It's a separate area, four cells and in the pack you can, I've seen suicide watch be in the shoes sometimes. And just on that note, where is the shoe? What floor? THOMAS Ninth. QUESTION Ninth floor. Alright, so he was on the ninth floor, went down to the second floor. Epstein that is on suicide watch. So it's the second floor and like how long are they there? Like who makes the determination, I guess is what I'm saying. Who's in there? Is psychology like co located with it or how is it, you know, the suicide watch area, how is that set up? THOMAS It's a room on the second floor. It's four rooms on the second floor. Single rooms, big glass door, food slot. Same on the other side. There are two adjoining doors. It has a shower there. So like if you have to shower, then there is a closet. Question Is psychology near there? THOMAS the psychology is down the hall. QUESTION Also on the second floor. THOMAS Also on the second floor. QUESTION so would they, do you believe that they would meet with people that are on suicide watch? ANSWER I'm sure, yes. QUESTION okay, all right folks, we're gonna wrap up right there. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna get right back to the Michael Thomas investigation with the OIG investigators. Question so when you're watching Epstein on July 23, did you see a psychologist talk with them at all? THOMAS that was on the morning watch, but no psychologist is on duty. QUESTION oh, okay, so you were there from 8, you were watching them? Thomas from midnight to 8:00am well, I was watching him until, well, exactly from 1:30 to 8:00am now, when inmates though, like Epstein, he's on suicide watch and then placed back into the shoe, how soon after are they typically provided a cellmate? Mr. Thomas I don't know. Is it right away? THOMAS I'm sure it's right away. So it's like you typically like is the cellmate already in there when they place him in with someone? THOMAS I don't know. It could be either or I'm sure that they made certain provisions and stuff to make sure that he was with somebody that he felt comfortable with or whatever the case. Question do inmates that are on suicide watch and psychological observation, do they always go from there to the shoe or ever into somewhere else? THOMAS what do you mean? QUESTION so if someone's on suicide watch or a psychological observation? THOMAS on the second floor. QUESTION on the second floor. When they're released from that, do they always get placed into the shoe? THOMAS no, it can be either. Or if they have some more shoe time that they have to serve or anything like that, they can go back to the shoe. But their shoe time is up, I'm assuming. I'll say it's whatever the psychologists say. If they say that they're cleared to go to population, they'll take them to population. Okay. What's the difference between suicide watch and psychological observation? THOMAS Suicide watch, one has a smock and a blanket, an observation. They have clothes. That's the only difference? THOMAS that's the only difference. We still just watching them out there. There's no difference. THOMAS or anything like that? Yeah, no difference. You watch them. Question Same area, same cell, Just what they're wearing? THOMAS yeah, same area, same cells and what they're wearing. Absolutely. Question okay, and is it your understanding the Epstein was both on suicide watch and psychological observation? THOMAS I don't know if he was on psychological. I knew when I watched him he was on suicide watch at the time. Question okay, did any other inmate that you were in the shoe when you were working in the shoe in July and August 2019, were any of them also people that were on suicide watch or psychological observation? Thomas I don't know. Question no. Would that be on the hot list if they were? THOMAS it probably would. I don't know if it's something that other inmates I couldn't tell you that there was five times suicides or that I couldn't tell you. Okay, and are there any other additional requirements for people to come off of suicide watch or psychological observation asides from having a cellmate? THOMAS I don't know. Do they have to get. Do they have to pay closer attention to them? I don't think so. I just say that everything is still standard practice. Question okay, so when you're working in the shoe, do you treat everybody the same. THOMAS no, I treat everybody the same. Question okay, so you don't look after certain people more than others? THOMAS no, I don't pay more attention to one person or another. Question okay, and is that the case with Epstein as well? You aren't informed like, hey, make sure you. You're paying more attention to him. He's your priority. Thomas no Question. So no one ever said Thomas cuts him off? No, absolutely not. Back to the question that he's a priority inmate. Okay, and I may have asked you this, so I apologize if it's repetitive. THOMAS it's all right. Question but was Epstein required to have a cellmate during his stay in the shoe? Thomas I don't know. Question. You just don't know? Thomas I don't know exactly, but I don't know. I don't know. But I would say if he was previous suicide yeah, he was probably required to have an inmate. Question Are you aware that the staff psychologist ever issued a requirement for him to have a cellmate? Thomas no, I'm not. I don't know. So did anyone, including the psychologist, peers, supervisors or others, ever tell you that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? Thomas no. Question do you have the email? Mr. Redacted. Let me see. Is there one more stack? Redacted. So this is the email from that redacted from psychology and it says to Suicide Watch psychological observation update 7:30, 2019. Do you know if you ever received this email? It says inmate Epstein is being taken off psych observation and needs to be housed with an appropriate cellmate. Do you remember ever receiving that? Thomas Usually they send this out to everybody, like it's sent out to everybody, but I don't remember seeing it. I'm sure if it was sent out of and all that stuff, I'm sure it got to me, but I don't remember seeing it. Question no, and I'm not saying that you received it. I'm just asking if you had received it. Like either by forward. Did anyone ever forward the email to you or did anybody did you ever see it? Thomas no, my name's not on here. Question yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know your name isn't on here. Thomas huh? Question you're right. That's why I'm just asking if you have ever forwarded that to you. Thomas huh? Question okay, do any of these names that are on here, especially towards the bottom here, and any of those names look like people that would work in the shoe? Thomas it could be a bunch of these people that worked in the shoe. I don't know specifically who works in the shoe. Question okay, but because you weren't on a regular shoe schedule, you may not. Thomas interrupts them yeah, yeah, they may not have forwarded that to you. One of those is the chaplain. That's okay. But you never, none of these people ever forwarded this to you? Thomas no. Question okay, just because we talked about it, do you mind just initialing it and dating it? Thank you, sir. Mr. Thomas I wrote 20. So I initialed over it. I put the one because I initialed over it when writing it. Redacted. What's that? Thomas I put 20. Question. This said 19. Yeah. Thomas. No, I put 20. So I put the one and I put my initials over it. Oh, okay. Got it. All right, thanks. So no one ever informed you that even. Not only that, but you needed to keep a closer eye on Mr. Epstein? Thomas. No, I don't ever recall being informed about that. No. Thomas. I mean, I'm not a custody. He gets cut off. Sure. I didn't know during your times that you're actually in the shoe. People talking about like and at midnight everybody's gone. Just the people. Because you're always with at least one other person, right? Thomas. Yeah. Question. But the other person you never had this. Thomas. I don't recall. Question. Conversation. Okay. Do you recall who the MCC warden in July of August 2019 was? Mr. Thomas. I can't pronounce his first name. Redacted. Question. Is it redacted? Thomas. I was about to say Captain, but redacted. Thomas. But you said the warden, right? Question. Yeah. So he gives him the name. Question. Okay, good. What communication do you have with MCC warden with regarding to the Epstein being housed within the McC? Thomas. I don't recall none. Thomas. No. Question. So I'm going to go through just a couple of names and the reason why I'm going to ask the same questions. And the intention is not to be repetitive, but for you to specifically thank these people to just see if that helps you recall. Thomas. You know, jog something. Question. Yeah, you know, so you can visualize that person. Question. So did the warden ever provide you with special instructions with Epstein? Thomas. No, not that I recall. Question. Okay. Did the warden ever tell you that Epstein was required to have a cellmate while housed at MCC or assigned to the shoe? Thomas. Not that I recall. Question. Did the warden ever visit the SHU during Epstein's stay at the McC? Thomas. I don't know. Question. You don't know because you weren't there during the days. Does the warden typically just work during the day watch? Thomas. No. I actually had an overtime shift with the warden sometime when he helped out with he worked the shoe with me one time. Question. When did he do that? Thomas. I can't recall. Question. Would it have been like in the July or August of 2019? Thomas. Nah. This was a long time ago. A long time ago. Question. Sam. Warden. Thomas. Yeah, Same worden. Question okay. Do you recall any times that you were in the shoe during July and August during Epstein's stay that the warden visited? Thomas. No, I'm on morning watch. Question. Right. That's what I meant because you had said that sometimes he did though. Thomas yeah, okay. But not during that time. Thomas not during my time. No. Question. Do you know if the Warden ever met with Epstein during his stay here at McCarthy? Mr. Thomas I don't know. Who are the MCC associate wardens? In August of 2019? Thomas redacted. And honestly, I can't remember the other one.
- [40:57]
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to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Question did the warden ever talk to you about Epstein? Okay. Did any AWS or associate wardens? Thomas no. Question alright. Thomas not any. Question so what communications did you have with any MCC aws, including redacted about Epstein being housed within the mcc? None. What AWS did you communicate with and how were those communications conducted? Did you ever discuss anything with aws? Did you ever have conversations with them? Thomas how's your day going? Question yeah, but not like sitting down. So talking about different inmates or something? Thomas no Question no. Alright. And did any AWS ever provide you with any information with regard to Epstein? Thomas no Question or special instruction? Thomas no. And did any aw, including AW redacted, ever tell you that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? Thomas no Question did any AW ever visit the SHU or while you were in the Shoe? Thomas no. Question no. Did any AW ever meet with Epstein during his stay at mcc? Thomas I don't know. Okay. Who was the MCC Captain in July and August of 2019? Thomas I see his face, but I can't remember his name. Question Was it redacted? Thomas yeah. There you go. There you go. Question so it was redacted? Thomas yeah. Question okay. What communication did you have with Captain with regarding to Epstein being housed at mcc? None. Would you have any communication with the Captain? Thomas no. Passing by. Question did the Captain ever provide you with special instructions with regard to Epstein? Thomas no. Question did the Captain ever tell you that Epstein was was required to have a cellmate? Thomas no. Question did the Captain ever visit the Shoe during Epstein's day at mcc? Thomas I don't know. Question did the Captain ever, but not while you were at the Shoe? Thomas not while I was in the shoe. No question. Did the Captain ever have a meeting with Epstein during his stay at the mcc? Thomas I don't know. Okay, question do you want to take a break right now? Answer yes. Okay, so we're gonna take a break right here as well. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
- [44:10]
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