Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Part 1-3) (5/18/26)

Summary

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The Epstein Chronicles – Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Parts 1–3)

Podcast Host: Bobby Capucci
Date: May 19, 2026
Episode Focus: Dissecting the official OIG deposition/interview with Tova Noel, one of the two correctional officers on duty in the Special Housing Unit (SHU) at MCC Manhattan on the morning Jeffrey Epstein died.

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Episode Overview

This "Mega Edition" episode features an in-depth breakdown of the official Office of Inspector General (OIG) interview with Tova Noel, a central figure in the timeline of Jeffrey Epstein’s death. Through real deposition audio and transcripts, Bobby Capucci guides listeners through the questions asked by federal investigators, the context around Noel's training and duties, and her own account of events. This episode offers a granular look at procedural failures, gaps in training, and the institutional framework that formed the backdrop for one of the most controversial prison deaths in modern history.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background & Credentials of Tova Noel

(Begins at 06:03)

• Personal and Educational Background
  • Bachelor’s degree in Criminal Justice from John Jay College, NYC (Graduated 2017).
  • Prior work at the post office as a mail handler (2017–2018).
  • Six years of prior military service in the Army as a patient administrative specialist; honorably discharged as an E-4 Specialist (2008–2014).
  • Joined the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) in June 2018.

“I was going to John Jay, yeah. That's when I was going to John Jay, yeah.” – Tova Noel (09:01)

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2. BOP Job Assignment and Experience at MCC

(Begins at 10:19)

• Entered BOP on June 24, 2018; completed corrections officer training at FLETC by September 2018.
• Noel’s only BOP employment location was MCC Manhattan, always as a correctional officer.
• Noel’s direct report was a lieutenant (unnamed due to redactions).

“When you were there last... who did you report to? Who was your direct supervisor?” – OIG Investigator (11:00)

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3. Training and Procedural Knowledge

(Begins at 12:31, returns at 16:14 and 17:06)

• Noel completed annual correctional officer refresher training (March 2019).
• Institutional Familiarization (IF) training provided policy, but gaps existed:
  • No direct training documentation for SHU-specific duties or “counts and rounds.”
  • Noel was sometimes instructed to sign training sheets for sessions she did not attend due to injury, at the request of her supervisor, to comply with program reviews.

“When I came back from an injury, the lieutenant asked me to sign because they had program review. They need to show that I received the training, but I never did. She just asked me to sign.”
– Tova Noel (18:14)

“Did they provide it to you one on one though?”
“No.”
– OIG Investigator & Tova Noel (18:10–18:12)

“So both training when you signed, they didn't actually even provide you anything?”
“No.”
– OIG Investigator & Tova Noel (30:04–30:09)

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4. Training Gaps in Suicide Prevention & SHU Procedures

(Begins at 20:40, 30:57)

• Noel did not receive, or recall, SHU suicide prevention training—although paperwork asserted she had.
• General refresher and IF training did not include specific, hands-on SHU operations.
• The only SHU guidance was reviewing post orders upon being assigned; no in-depth, task-specific training was conducted.

“Those trainings are like general overall training. It's not specifically speaking about SHU. Like SHU may come up in the conversations, but it's not specific to SHU or how to operate or run the SHU.”
– Tova Noel (30:58)

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5. Process Flaws in Security and Record-Keeping

(Recurring theme through transcript)

• SHU post orders were reviewed only at time of assignment; broader policy was often referenced but not internalized or enforced.
• Supervisors occasionally directed signatures on forms for uncompleted training to meet compliance demands.
• Tova indicates a substantial reliance on colleagues for on-the-job learning rather than formal, repeated instruction.

“I was new and because I don't know how to run the SHU; I always rely on the senior person that I'm working with.”
– Tova Noel (38:25)

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6. SHU Work Assignments and Epstein’s Placement

(Begins at 32:47 and 37:46)

• Noel’s post-injury summer 2019 assignment was SHU from late June to August 10.
• She worked the SHU on both August 9 (4 p.m.–midnight) and August 10, 2019 (midnight–8 a.m.): the nights spanning Epstein’s death.
• Duties included routine rounds and counts, meal and linen distribution.
• Claims lack of clarity or direction around 30-minute ever-present rounds.
• States she didn’t really know “who” Epstein was, learning only from other staffers; had no direct awareness of his case profile when he was placed in SHU.

“Who is or was inmate Jeffrey Epstein?”
“Who was he? Was he an inmate assigned to the MCC?”
“Yes... I didn't even know who he was when I work with him. It was the other CO worker that told me who he was. I didn't know who he was.”
– Tova Noel (41:12–41:35)

“Rounds and counts are part of it. But I never worked in the SHU and actually done rounds every 30 minutes. We go downrange to do stuff and we count it as a round.”
– Tova Noel (39:13)

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7. Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Fraudulent Training Record-Signing:
  “Lieutenant asked me to sign because they had program review. They need to show that I received the training, but I never did.”
  — Tova Noel (18:14) (See also 30:00–30:09)

• On the Piecemeal Nature of Training:
  “Those trainings are like general overall training. It's not specifically speaking about SHU… it’s not specific to SHU or how to operate or run the SHU.”
  — Tova Noel (30:58)

• On Epstein’s Presence and Recognition:
  “I didn’t even know who he was when I worked with him… it was the other CO worker that told me who he was. I just knew his name, but not what he was there for.”
  — Tova Noel (41:35)

• On the Actual Conduct of Rounds:
  “I never worked in the SHU and actually done rounds every 30 minutes. We go downrange to do stuff and we count it as a round.”
  — Tova Noel (39:13)

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8. Union and Legal Representation Tensions

(25:12–27:10)

• Ongoing procedural wrangling between union representative and OIG about the right to object or “interrupt” during interviews heightened a sense of bureaucratic confusion and formality, eating into the substance of the deposition.

“So you're saying to me… it's my right to represent the employee, which is asking to caucus and say something to Ms. Noel is interrupting the interview even though I have the right to do so based on the document I signed.”
— Union Rep (24:12)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Tova Noel’s background and credentialing: 06:03–09:12
• MCC posting, supervisor, signing policies: 10:19–13:31
• Training (or lack thereof) and fraudulent signings: 16:14–18:14; 21:06–21:24; 30:00–30:09
• Procedural confusion over representation: 25:12–27:10
• Discussion of SHU-specific duties and learning on the job: 32:47–39:13
• Learning of Epstein’s identity from coworker: 41:12–41:35

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Summary of Episode Tone

• Language: Direct, unvarnished, at times procedural (due to verbatim deposition).
• Host’s Approach: Methodical, focused on transparency, fact-based exploration.
• Overall Atmosphere: Deeply bureaucratic, exposing systemic flaws and pressures within the prison system, as well as a sense of confusion and improvisation among frontline staff.

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For Listeners New to the Series

This episode provides a foundational understanding of the institutional and human failures that circled Jeffrey Epstein’s incarceration and death. Through Tova Noel’s OIG interview, listeners glimpse how systemic shortcuts, paperwork formalities, and a lack of coherent training contributed to a security environment ill-prepared for high-profile, high-risk inmates. The lack of awareness around internal policies, coupled with managerial pressure to falsify training compliance, provides a groundwork for understanding the larger context in which Epstein died.

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Next Episode Tease:
The podcast promises to continue the examination of Noel’s deposition, focusing on the events and procedures on the night Epstein died, alongside more OIG findings and ramifications for the Bureau of Prisons.

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Transcript

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[OIG Investigator]

What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to begin taking a look at the Tova Noel deposition that she gave to the OIG investigators as part of the investigation into the death of Jeffrey Epstein. So we're going to skip over all of the swearing in and all of that, and we're just going to dive in. So once again, the person asking questions has his name redacted, and Tova Noel's lawyer is named Mr. Foy. So when Mr. Foy interjects and you'll hear me say Foy, that's what I'm talking about. And she also has a second attorney with her, Mr. Saraga. So when either of them object, I'll make sure to notate that as we're making our way through this. And the final person that's involved in this is Ms. Greg, who is part of the union, I believe, for the corrections officer, Tova Noel

[Union Representative]

redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Thank you, everyone. Ms. Noel, you're here today as a subject in this DOJ OIG investigation. This DOJ OIG investigation concerns your alleged misconduct to include allegations of false statements, job performance failure, security failure, and reporting false information. This is an official DOJ OIG investigation, and you're being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to voluntarily interview with the DOJ OIG, Ms. Noel?

[Tova Noel]

Yes.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. All right, great. And then everybody that does voluntary interviews with the doj, will we provide them with voluntary interview forms? I don't know if you guys were sent that at the Time. But it says United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General. Warnings and assurances to employee requested to provide information on a voluntary basis. You're being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to your alleged misconduct to include allegations of false statements, job performance failure, security failure and reporting false information. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement that you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceeding or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both. And of course, there is the DPA waiver. I understand the warnings and assurances started above or stated above and I'm willing to make a statement or answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me. You can take a look at this and review it if you agree. There's a section there for your name and signature. Foy. So the only thing that this is actually subject to is the deferred prosecution agreement.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Well, so there's the agreement that you had. So that's the part where I'm talking about the specific part where it says criminal. That's something I think that was worked out with the U. S. Attorney's office. Foy. Right. Exactly. I know there is no sort of protection with regard to the disciplinary internally. The administrative thing will happen at some point. But I just wanted to make that clear. But go ahead. You can sign Tova.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Now, obviously that is pursuant to you answering questions truthfully.

[Union Representative]

Foy.

[OIG Investigator]

Right, of course. That's the exception to our agreement. Noel.

[Tova Noel]

Huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

All right. And the rest will be filled out by the two of us. Foy. Okay.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And thank you for signing. Ms. Noel. Alright, so I'm going to sign where it says signature of the office of the Inspector General Special Agent. Again, this is redacted. I'm printing my name and Special Agent Redacted. Can you fill out the rest of the signature of witness? Name a witness, date, time and place.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Mr. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

This is Agent Redacted signing on the signature of witness.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And then do you understand the form as you read and you review?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes, I do.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Great. Thank you. Before starting the interview, I'd like to place you under oath. Can you please raise your Right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during the interview, Ms. Noel? Yes. Question. Thank you, ma'.

[Tova Noel]

Am.

[OIG Investigator]

All right, Please let me know if you do not understand any of my questions.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Try to rephrase or ask it a different way.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. Redacted question alright, so this is something we ask everybody. What's your current home address?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Thank you. What's your date of birth?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Question. And your last four of your Social Security number?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Redacted question thank you. What's the highest level of education?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Bachelor's degree. Question. And what was your bachelor's degree in?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Criminal justice.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And where did you receive your degree from, Noel? John Jay. Question John Jay In New York City, Noel yes, sir. Question and when did you graduate, Ms. Noel? 2017.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Thank you. What did you do just briefly, prior to working with the bop?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Prior to working with the bop, I worked in the post office.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. What did you do there, Noel? I was a male handler.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And for how long?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Six months.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Six months?

[Tova Noel]

Noel. Huh.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. And that was in 2016. When did you do that?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Yes. Redacted 2015 and 2016?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

No, not at the post office. I was there 2017. Noel. 16. 17, huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Oh, okay. And do you have any military service? Noel? Yes. Question. And what is that?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Military service? Question yeah, can you tell me what the service?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

The army.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

The army. And how long were you in The Army? Noel? Six years.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

From when until when?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

2008 to 2014.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And what did you do in the military, Noel? I was a patient. Administrative specialist.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And what is that?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Patient admin.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Patient as in like a hospital?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Yes. Question. Okay, so. So you worked in a hospital. And what was your rank when you left the military?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

E4 specialist.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And did you leave? Were you honorably discharged?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, Foy, this is the lawyer for Tovinoel. Can I one second real quick? For the post office, you said 16. 17, but you started MCC in 2018, so would it be 17 into 18?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

18. Yeah.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

You did start with the BOP in 18, Noel.

[Tova Noel]

Yes.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Not in 16, Noel. No, that was an error in indiscernible Foy. Right. So it's 18 when she left the post office in 17. Going to. So I think it's 16. No. 17. 18. Noel 18. Foy post office, then MCC. Okay. And did you work for anybody prior or in between your military service and the post office?

[Tova Noel]

Noel no.

[OIG Investigator]

No. Okay. So were you unemployed at that time?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle?

[OIG Investigator]

No, I was going to school. Oh, that's when you went to John Jay? Noel that's when I was going to John Jay, yeah. Okay. Thank you.

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[OIG Investigator]

And then when was your enter on Duty date with BOP? Ms. Noel? June 24, 2018.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, and when did you graduate from BOP training down at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, Noel I want to say September of 2018.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, but you did graduate from there? Noelle? Yes, I did.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Was that a correctional officer training? Noel yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

All right, and when was your first office assignment with the bop?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle?

[OIG Investigator]

Say that again. When was your first office assignment with the bop? So where did you start? Did you start working in MCC and work there the entire time?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Yes, sir.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. And what position have you had with the bop?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Correctional officer.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, the entire time? Noel yes, sir.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

All right, and when you were there last, you did. Who did you report to? Who was your direct supervisor? Or did you have one?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Lieutenant.

[Union Representative]

Redacted. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And do you know how to spell that last name?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Question from Redacted. Thank you. What is your current again, this is something we ask everybody. We won't be contacting your client, but what is your current cell number?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Mr. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, and how long have you had that number?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Years.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Years.

[Tova Noel]

Noel huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So for a long time. Noel yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And to include in 2019? Noelle yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, so any other cell phone numbers?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle no.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, and your current email address?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle?

[Union Representative]

Redacted. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Asked a question. Okay, great. And have you had that One for yours also.

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. Any others? Noelle yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

What are the others?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Mr. You've had that for years. Noelle yes. Question. Okay. Both in 2019. Noelle yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, thank you. Do you have any current. I should have asked this. Are you currently employed right now?

[Tova Noel]

Noel no.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

By no other means?

[Tova Noel]

Noel no.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Okay. And when did you last work at the McC? Noel August 10, 2019.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And was that the same supervisor that you mentioned?

[Tova Noel]

Noel yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, briefly, what training have you attended or conducted during your employment with the bop? You mentioned the Correctional Officer training at fletc. What other training have they provided you? Noel on There's 2e training when you first start at BOP. I forget what it's called.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

If training.

[Tova Noel]

Noel huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And any other training?

[Tova Noel]

Noel no.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Annual refresher training.

[Tova Noel]

Noel I have one.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, so you've gone to annual. And what about like a shoe training course?

[Tova Noel]

Noel no.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, but you did. And this is just. You guys can take a look at this if you would like. This is the training that we have for you that we asked for your, your list of training. I'm not asking you to necessarily verify that you've conducted all of it, but it shows the last time you did your annual training was on 3, 8, 2019 was when you actually completed that week of training. Noel yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Does that sound correct? Noel Correct question. Again, this just goes along with it. It shows what the syllabus was and as well as the sign in sheet where Ms. Noel signed in. Again, we're not asking you to or for. If you want to take a look at this, you can. It shows that you did the training in March of 2019. And anything that I'm going to provide to you, can you just initial and date and that's just a way for us to verify that that's what we showed you.

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. Foy. Each page, you're just the top. Nope, just. Just the top of the page. Foy. Okay.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

No, you do have that. So just briefly, you don't have to like list off the core syllabus. But what did they cover during the annual training? Noel they spoke about different areas, like dealing with inmates. They spoke about the issues on the job, like dealing with shortages. They spoke about basically like mask fitted. I remember Redacted. Mask fitting.

[Tova Noel]

Noelle uh huh.

[OIG Investigator]

Was that back in 2019 people were wearing masks as well?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

No, like, redacted. It's for OC sprays. Oh, for OC spray.

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yeah.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. Did they include things like ethics, standards or conduct?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes. What about, like, counts and rounds?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

I don't recall them talking about counts and rounds. Okay, so did they go over, like, MCC policy and guidance?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. And did they ever provide you with the policies and guidelines, or did they just speak to you about it?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

For in training, yes, they just spoke about it at another time. Did they provide you with the policies and guidelines?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yeah, it's unlike the computer.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. Do you have to certify that you, like, received it and you reviewed it? Policies and guidelines? Noel I think I signed that.

[Union Representative]

Like, you received it Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Right. Okay. If you don't mind. He asked her to sign the paper. You want it in the lower right?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Doesn't matter. Top or bottom, you know, wherever there's room. I typically do the top, but bottom is totally fine. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up with the first episode here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're getting right back to that Tova Noel interview with the OIG investigators.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And now you mentioned that you didn't quite remember them going over training when conducting counts and rounds. In this training, did you. Were you. Did you ever receive training on conducting Counts and rounds, Ms. Noel? Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, when would that have been, Noel, in an IF training?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

In what does if stand for, Noel?

[Tova Noel]

Huh?

[OIG Investigator]

You want some clarity? I can tell you, Mr. Sure.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Just what it stands for. Institution Familiarization Training.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, great. And that's something that the MCC provided directly, Ms. Noel. Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, great. And then you had mentioned, did you ever receive policy on counts and rounds? Noel?

[Tova Noel]

No.

[OIG Investigator]

I know you said you certified. Do you remember that specific policy, like, receiving that? Noel, like, specifically on counts and rounds?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I'm not asking you to, like, verbatim tell me what it was. I'm just saying, like, were you provided and you reviewed? Reviewed it. Do you remember?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Not specifically on counts and rounds. Just like a general, she gets cut off, right?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Like, she gets cut off again, like, you know, the housing orders or unit policy and Things like that. When you're supposed to conduct counts, when you're supposed to do rounds, that type of thing.

[Union Representative]

Redacted the post orders. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Post orders. Right. Okay, great. You mentioned you didn't remember ever going to quarterly shoe training. This is a sign in sheet for quarterly shoe training. Is this your signature there for June 26, 2019?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

You see how I'm last one on the bottom of all of them? Redacted. Correct, Noel. Because I wasn't at the training when I came.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Did they provide it to you one on one though?

[Tova Noel]

Noel? No.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So how come she get he gets cut off by Noel? Because when I came back from an injury, the lieutenant asked me to sign because they had program review. They need to show that I received the training, but I never did. She just asked me to sign. That's why I wonder why.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Who asked you to do that?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Lieutenant.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So that supervisor you mentioned was your first line supervisor asked you to sign without providing you the training?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle. Yes.

[OIG Investigator]

And she didn't like provide you anything to review?

[Tova Noel]

No.

[OIG Investigator]

She didn't go over anything with you?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle. No.

[OIG Investigator]

Did you discuss this with her? That how you can sign something without being provided the training?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Well, I just told her I wasn't here. I was out on an injury. She said she knows but she needed me to sign because they need it for program review.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

What's her first name?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. And is she a lieutenant? Noel. I don't know what she is now, but she is not an MCC anymore. She's somewhere in Jersey.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I'm sorry. Before you go, are you done with that question?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Actually, let me. I didn't do this. And I did forget to do this. There's an advisory to the union representative.

[Union Representative]

Redacted. Question.

[OIG Investigator]

Can you review this? And I do apologize, but since you're speaking up a little bit, let me hand this to you and then you can review that. And then if you want to just take a look after you're done reviewing, you may sign it if you agree.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Will you be able to give me a copy of it? Question. Yeah, I think it says on that that there will be forwarded a copy to you.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I didn't even see that part

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[OIG Investigator]

Question. Should I continue asking questions while she's reviewing that or do you want to wait? Foy. Yeah, you can ask questions. Absolutely.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Sure. So there's another training that you. It says that you conducted on July 26, 2019, for Shoe Suicide prevention training. Do you also not receive that training, Noel? Yeah, I didn't.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

You did not receive that training, Noel? No.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Did you receive. So there are slides in the back that show the training and how they conducted it. Did they provide you with those slides,

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

No, because I wasn't there.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

You weren't there, Noel? I was out with an injury.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. When were you out with an injury? What are the dates, Noel? From March 2019. I came back in June. So when I came back in June, that's when I was told to sign this.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[Tova Noel]

Okay.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. All right. Thank you for signing the advisory to union representative.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I'm just going to sign that form as name of OIG Special agent. Again, I do apologize for not providing that up front,

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

I want to call because. Indiscernible. I'm just saying that. Well, I know that the dynamics are that I should interrupt you in the middle of a question, but interrupt or answering a question. So I was just asking, were you done? Because I wanted to just step out for a second.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

You want to step out, Noelle?

[Tova Noel]

Huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. We don't want to interrupt the interview because we have a lot of questions to get through.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. If the attorneys ask that, that's not really. But if you would like to.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So based on the agreement we just signed. Right?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Sure. The union rep, it acknowledges the right to have me representing her, and part of those rights are the ability to assist in representing her. Right. And so I don't want to dispute and. And I don't want to hold up the process at all. I just want to say something to her.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Sure.

[Union Representative]

Let that Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Do that this time. But if this continues to happen, I'm going to have to give you a different form that says you can stay here voluntarily if you want, but we're going to ask you not to interrupt the interview. And if you do, we're going to ask her if she wants to continue with the interview without you mispredacted. So but that form says something contrary to what you're saying.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I'm going to give you a different form that says that I'm going to let you interrupt the interview now to talk to her out there. And if you do it again, I'm going to ask you not to be here any longer so that we can continue with the interview. Obviously, her attorneys would stay here, so I just want to make sure that we don't just continue.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I just need clarity. Then I need clarity.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Sure.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So the representing of and talking to the employee who I have the right to represent is considered by you an interruption of the interview?

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Mr. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

We haven't even gotten to the questions yet.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Well, she gets cut off by the OIG investigator. Yes, we need to continue with the interview, but we're now I can allow you to do that now I'm just not not going to be able to allow you to continue to stop the interview and leave the room. Ms. I'm just asking for clarity. Right. So it was kind of he cuts her off. Sure. Absolutely. Ms. And I don't mean to be difficult. It kind of was yes or no. So you're saying to me based on the document that I signed Mr. I'm saying that you can assist her. I didn't get to Mr. Sure, go ahead.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. OK.

[OIG Investigator]

So you're saying based on the document that I signed, it's my right to represent the employee, which is asking to caucus and say something to Ms. Noel is interrupting the interview even though I have the right to do so based on the document I signed.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Mr. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

It's more for her to be able to ask you for a question.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So it's just a yes or no, the interviewer oh, oh, no, no. I'm the one that's leading the interview here. So if she stops and asks you for clarity Absolutely. You stopping to inform her no, I never identified to you that I would be informing her of anything.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Mr.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. But so yes, to answer your question, you can be here to represent her if she's asking you for information. I don't want you stopping our interview. Misredacted mm question and then asking to leave the room. I'm going to allow it this time. After that, I'll consider that an interruption. But of the interview. Ms. Redacted.

[Union Representative]

Question.

[OIG Investigator]

And then we have to proceed from there. And then there's different form to provide you. So does that make sense?

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

No, it doesn't.

[Union Representative]

Question.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, so I'm asking you not to interrupt.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Wait. It doesn't make sense. But I'm not. That was. He cuts her off. So I'm asking you not to interrupt the interview. She may defer to you and ask you for questions.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[Tova Noel]

Huh?

[OIG Investigator]

I'm asking you not to interrupt my questions.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. It doesn't make sense to me. What I'm interpreting is my ability to represent is only if the employee asks a question. That's what you're saying to me.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Correct. So her attorneys are here.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I got it.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

I got it.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Her attorneys are here. I'm asking if she has a question from her union representative.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[Tova Noel]

Huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

She may have a question for you.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted. I got it.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. I'm asking you not to interrupt.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I got it.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

These questions are not for you. They're not directed at you. They're directed at Ms. Noel.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I'm not answering questions. I'm just trying to. I'm representing her. But I understand that there has been a determination of of how I'm able to represent and so.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Deal with that in a different venue. You can move forward.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Mr. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

All right, let me read this real quick in the paperwork so that we're not going to have any disputes.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Misredacted.

[OIG Investigator]

We don't have to. You don't have to continue. Right, Because I don't want to interrupt so you can go forward and ask questions.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, so it just says that you may not attempt to answer the questions or dictate the employee's actions to question or otherwise take charge of proceedings. But again, please feel free to go confer with Ms. Noel.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Ms. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

I'm going to pause the recording. It's currently 10:32am whereupon the above entitled matter went off the record and went back on the record. Okay, the recorder is back on.

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[OIG Investigator]

This is 10:38am Tuesday, June 22, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

We're resuming the interview. Ms. Noel, I just remind you that you are under oath and this is a voluntary interview. What was your question?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

You need me to initial redacted, if you don't mind. And again, it's just to show that you know what we're looking at.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Now, since we took that break, is there anything else? He gets cut off by the union rep. No. We can move forward. Noel. No, thank you.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Thank you again very much for your cooperation in this matter. Is there anything else you wanted? All right, do you know where we left off? What was the last question that we asked? It was what we asked for indiscernible about the injuries. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the deposition given by Tova Noel to the OIG Investigators. Question. Okay, so you were telling us you said March through June you were injured. Ms. Noel. Yes. Question. And you were not actually working during that time?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

No. Question. Do you remember around when in March? And when did it end? Was it the beginning of March? End of March, middle? Noel. I'm not sure. I just know it was March.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Sometime in March. Noel. Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

But when you came back, was it around the 26th when they asked you to sign those?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

I came back in June. I don't recall the exact date.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

But I remember the day that I came into work and the lieutenant asked me to go see. Lieutenant Redacted. And she asked me to sign. And I said, but I wasn't here. I was out on injury. And she said she's aware, but they need me to sign it for the program review.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. Noel. So I signed.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So both training when you signed, they didn't actually even provide you anything? Noel. No.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Verbally, electronically, nothing? Noelle. No. Question. Okay. And what was on the date that was signed that that happened?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Actually she told me not to date it. I remember when I was signing, she said, don't date it.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

But you dated it anyway. Did you have a conversation about that? Noel?

[Tova Noel]

No.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

After you dated it, she didn't say why did you date it or anything like that?

[Union Representative]

Redact.

[OIG Investigator]

Noel.

[Tova Noel]

No.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Okay. Did you receive that training through in the annual training courses as well, like the suicide prevention. You know, how to operate in the shoe during MCC annual or the. I think you call it the IF training or during the correctional officer training at fletc?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Those trainings are like general overall training. It's not specifically speaking about shoe. Like shoe may come up in the conversations, but it's not specific to shoe or how to operate or run the shoe.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay.

[Tova Noel]

Noel. Huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Do you know if they were doing this with other employees as well, having them sign training that weren't actually conducting? Noel.

[Tova Noel]

I don't know.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, but did you do this per the directions of your supervisor?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Supervisor. Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So she did she specifically. You must sign this. Noel. Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, again. And that was.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. And you said, and I apologize, I don't know if we interrupted when. Where did you say she is currently?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

She is in Jersey. I know. I'm trying to redacted. At the FCI for dicks.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, Mr. Foy, question real quick. Absolutely. Do you want a more precise answer to when she was out and when she came back? Foy. Because I happen to know the approximate dates.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Sure. You can provide that. Foy. And this is based on my review of. Of discovery and conversations with Ms. Noel. We're looking at about March 15th to June 24th. Ish.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. Foy. And I note that the execution was on the 26th, but I think there was some time. You know, it's not like the first minute she was there. They had her sign the document.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Right. Foy. So those are the estimated times I could be off by a day or two. But the 15th of March to June 24th.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

During your time at the MCC, how often were you assigned to the Special Housing unit, also known as the shoe?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And this is an approximate. I'm not asking you for, like, the exact amount. Noel. When I came back from injury, my assignment was a shoe. So from June 20, whatever, to August 10, I worked the shoe.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. And that was your quarterly assignment was in the shoe for the whole summer in 2019? Noel.

[Tova Noel]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, thank you. So I know that you said you didn't they didn't provide you with shoe training. Did they provide you with the policies of the shoe? Noel.

[Tova Noel]

No.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So you never received those policies. Would it have been when you received and you said you had initial and date something electronically? I think you said when you were provided. He gets cut off by.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

That's the employee code of conduct.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Like the handbook that's online.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Should have they provided you with the policies and post orders in the shoe? Noel in the shoe there is post orders.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Oh, okay. So in the shoe there's the post orders.

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And you were provided with a copy of that to review?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And had you reviewed that?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. And when did you review that?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

When I came back.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So sometime in June.

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

In June. Question. Okay, so aside from those post orders, did you receive any other shoe training? Noel. No.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

No. And who was responsible for making sure that you actually did receive shoe training?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

I don't know.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

You don't know. Was that a lieutenant issue or your first line supervisor?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

I would assume the lieutenant. My supervisor. I don't know. And when you say the lieutenant, who was the lieutenant in the shoe at the time?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Lieutenant.

[Union Representative]

Redacted. Mr. Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Do you know his first name?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Okay. And would he be responsible for making sure that you were training when you were in the shoe?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

I mean, I'm going to direct that question to her. I don't know question. I don't want you to direct a question to her.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

But if you need to like, yeah, that's fine.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Yeah.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Yeah.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And if you don't know, that's totally acceptable.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Yeah.

[OIG Investigator]

Because I don't know.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. No, no, that's a totally acceptable answer.

[Tova Noel]

Noel. Huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So, yeah, if you know, if you don't know something or you know something, that's great. You don't really want to ask other people for the answers.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Right.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

You know, obviously if you need to confer and you know with your attorneys or your union rep, absolutely fine. But we just want to try to get away from them answering for you.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

All right. And then from your recollection, though, you don't remember receiving shoe training during the annual refresher training? Noelle? No.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

No. Okay. Did you receive training on how to conduct rounds?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And when was that?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Nif.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Nif.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[Union Representative]

Yep.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Okay, and what did it teach you about conducting rounds?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

That you need two people to count and conduct rounds. And one person goes and counts, the other person goes and counts. And then you confirm the numbers of counting. Question. Okay.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

And make sure when you're counting, that you're counting everybody standing at their bed when you're counting. Okay. And did you receive suicide prevention training during the MCC annual refresher training?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

I don't recall.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Question.

[OIG Investigator]

You don't recall?

[Tova Noel]

Noel. Huh?

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Okay, what was your understanding if an inmate was placed, you know, is suicidal or placed on suicide watch? What was your understanding of. Of how you should treat those inmates?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

If an inmate is placed on suicide watch, I don't deal with them. They go downstairs to suicide watch and they're being watched by other inmates. Question.

[Tova Noel]

Huh? Noel.

[Union Representative]

But.

[OIG Investigator]

And then when they're cleared, they come back to the unit. Question. And you're trained, are you supposed to handle them differently when they come back to the unit?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Huh? No, you're not.

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

You're not. You're not supposed to handle them differently? Noelle. No, not at all.

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Because they're cleared to come back. Okay?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

So once you're cleared, you're back to normal. Okay. And were you assigned to the SHU on August 9 and 10 of 2019?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle?

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Do you recall what time you began working on the shoe on August 9th?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

Four to midnight.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Four to midnight. And then on August 10th, it was.

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Midnight to eight in the morning.

[Union Representative]

Question.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, you said again, that was your quarterly bidded post?

[Tova Noel]

Noelle.

[OIG Investigator]

Yes.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Quarterly assignment. And what were your overall duties and responsibilities when you were assigned to the shoe?

[Tova Noel]

Noel?

[OIG Investigator]

It varies because I'm new and because I don't know how to run the shoe. I just always rely on the senior person that I'm working with. So even if the roster reflects that on the senior officer, because sometimes I'm assigned to the shoe, I don't do what you is supposed to do because I don't know how to do it. I rely on the senior officer that I'm working with. Question. Okay, so you didn't really know what your duties and responsibilities were. Is that what you're saying Noel in the shoe like to give out food, to collect the trays, to give out linen. Collect linen. Whenever we would go down range to give out those, we count that as a round to make sure the inmates are good. You shower every other day. Count.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

That's it.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

So rounds and counts are part of that though?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Rounds and counts are part of it. But I never worked in the shoe and actually done rounds every 30 minutes. We go downrange to do stuff and we count it as a round.

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

Perfect. That's going to be something that we're going to discuss.

[Tova Noel]

Noel. Huh?

[Union Representative]

Redacted.

[OIG Investigator]

And ask you things like who told you that and how's is that you know who should have provided you with the proper training and information on how it was technically supposed to be done?

[Tova Noel]

Noel huh?

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Question.

[OIG Investigator]

And were there any requirements, special requirements for inmates who were assigned to the shu? I don't know. That's fine. Do inmates in the shoe have cellmates? Yes. Okay. And are they required to have a cellmate? I'm not sure. You're not sure?

[Tova Noel]

Uh huh.

[OIG Investigator]

And do you know why they wouldn't have a cellmate?

[Tova Noel]

Noel I don't know.

[OIG Investigator]

Question. Did you ever, were you ever told it's because another inmate could harm that inmate or. There were certain classifications of inmates. They never discussed that with you? Noel no.

[Attorney Mr. Foy]

Question.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay. No. Did you ever see training on medical emergencies with inmates?

[Tova Noel]

Noel no.

[OIG Investigator]

I just know like if you are making a round and something happens to an inmate, you call and you wait for somebody to come before you enter the cell. That's all I know.

[Union Representative]

Question.

[OIG Investigator]

Okay, but did you, were you provided like CPR training or any kind of like, you know, if something were to happen in front of you, how would you respond? Noel yes. We also need bear training redacted. Okay. And when would you conduct training like that, CPR training or you know, if someone is trying to kill themselves or, or something like that. When did you receive the training? How would you respond to a medical emergency?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

That was in if. Question if as well.

[Tova Noel]

Noel. Huh?

[OIG Investigator]

Question okay, so who is or was inmate Jeffrey Epstein? Noel who was he? Question. Who was he? Was he an inmate assigned to the mcc? Noel yes. Question Was he assigned to the shoe? Noelle yes. Question okay. Do you know what he was at the MCC for and why he was incarcerated by the bop?

[Tova Noel]

Noel.

[OIG Investigator]

Actually I didn't even know who he was when I work with him. It was the other CO worker that told me who he was. I didn't know who he was? Question and who? Noel as in I knew his name, but I didn't know, like, what he was there for and who he actually was questioning. So. And when you say the other co worker told you, who told you? Noel Redacted. Question Redacted.

[Tova Noel]

Noel huh.

[OIG Investigator]

Question and what is redacted's first name? Noel Redacted Question and what did he inform you? Noel he basically said that this is Jeffrey Epstein. You don't know who he is? And I said, no. And he was like, he's in the news every day. And I was like, okay, I didn't know. Question do you remember when you had that conversation? Like, at least if you think about August 9, August 10, Noel no. Question. Was it? Obviously it was then prior to August 9th. Noel yes. Question okay. But you were working in the shoe together. Noel yes. Question okay, was Epstein in the shoe when you had that conversation? Noel Never redacted no. Was he with his attorneys?

[Tova Noel]

Noel huh?

[OIG Investigator]

Question okay, do you remember anything else about that conversation when he told you about him? Noel no, that was it. Question did he tell you why he was in Noel no. Question no, just that he was in Famous and in the shoe. Noel yeah. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.