Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Part 11-13) (5/19/26)

Summary

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The Epstein Chronicles

Episode: Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Parts 11–13)
Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Bobby Capucci

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Overview of the Episode

This “Mega Edition” continues the series examining the official interviews with Tova Noel, one of the correctional officers on duty the morning Jeffrey Epstein died at MCC New York. Host Bobby Capucci methodically shares segments of Noel’s statements to Office of Inspector General (OIG) investigators, shedding light on her perspective of events, prison procedures, and the pervasive confusion and lapses in supervision and accountability during that infamous night and morning. The interrogation exposes inconsistencies, lack of training, and the culture of routine but questionable practices among the staff.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Was Present and What Happened That Morning?

(Starts ~00:37)

• Key Officers in the SHU:
  • Noel recounts that from about 12:00am–6:30am on August 10, 2019, only she and Officer Michael Thomas were in the Special Housing Unit (SHU) where Epstein was housed.
  • Only two other officers, both lieutenants (names redacted), visited the SHU for routine rounds.
  • She describes personnel movements, particularly officers relieving each other for food breaks, underlining the minimal staffing.

“Me and Thomas.” (Tova Noel, 00:45)

• Access and Relief Practices:
  • Officers cross-cover each other’s posts for breaks; relief must be authorized, usually with a call to a lieutenant.
  • There is ambiguity over who exactly approves or facilitates these coverage swaps, with Noel expressing uncertainty, often needing to verify permissions.

2. Chain of Command and Responsibility

(~06:30–08:00)

• Confused Hierarchy:
  • Officially, Noel was "in charge" that night, but her lack of experience led her to defer to senior officers such as Thomas, particularly since she was new to this post.

"On paper I was in charge but in practice, I ask because I don’t know… I’m new." (Tova Noel, 07:39)

• Overtime and Assignments:
  • Thomas was there on overtime, not as a regular assignment—highlighting broader issues with understaffing and staff rotations.

3. Communication and Duties Regarding Epstein

(08:00–11:00)

• Noel denies any special instructions received about Epstein, being required to provide a cellmate, or awareness of procedures to implement should an inmate (like Reyes, Epstein’s cellmate) be removed.

• No Documentation or Notification:

  • Noel claims she received no notification when Epstein's cellmate was removed, nor did she know who was supposed to assign a new cellmate.

“I don’t know what should have happened…when I came in at 4 the cell was empty…so I don’t know what should have happened.” (Tova Noel, 11:51)

4. Counts and Rounds: What Was Supposed to Happen vs. What Did

(16:04–29:12)

A. Definitions and Procedure

• Counts: Every few hours (4pm, 10pm, 12am, 3am, 5am), two officers physically confirm and count inmates, ensuring they are alive. Each officer counts independently; confirmation numbers are then compared.

• Rounds: One officer walks the tier to visually check on inmates’ wellbeing—not a tally, but an observational check. Rounds are supposed to occur every 30 minutes.

“You need to see the prisoner move...or you could see them breathing…Just as long as you see some life.” (Noel, 16:55–17:10)

B. Documentation Practices

• Pre-populated Logs:
  • Noel admits to pre-filling the round logs for the entire shift at the beginning—before any rounds occurred—and sometimes rounds were only conducted when doing a chore like distributing food or toilet paper.

“I usually fill it out like prior, in hopes to conduct the round…a lot of times prior to actually conducting the round… Yeah.” (Noel, 20:50)

• Rounds Not Always Done:

  • Of the rounds logged for August 9–10, Noel acknowledges not all were performed—they were marked down regardless.

• Culture of Pre-Population:

  • Noel learned this practice from observing colleagues, never receiving direct instruction or formal training forbidding or permitting pre-filling.

5. Accountability and Training Shortcomings

(29:35–end)

• Training Lapses:
  • Noel states she completed the required formal training but underscores that much was missed due to staff shortages or was not specific to the high-rise context of MCC.

“The training that I received in Georgia [was] specific to camps, not necessarily high-rises… sometimes there was nobody to train us.” (Noel, 32:19)

• Unclear Supervision:

  • On paper, she had duties she wasn't confident or equipped to perform, relying on observation of other officers’ habits rather than policy.

• Record Falsification: Systemic or Individual?

  • The investigators push Noel on whether she knew this practice was wrong—falsely certifying rounds not done or not at the logged times. She deflects, citing normalization by her colleagues.

“You can’t possibly think that it’s okay to fill out certifications saying that you conducted rounds in the future that haven’t even taken place…Did you think it’s okay to sign on the round sheet?...” (OIG Inspector, 38:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ambiguity and Deferral:

  “On paper I was in charge, but in practice I ask because I don’t know… I’m new.”
  — Tova Noel (07:39)

• On Documentation Practices:

  “I usually fill it out like prior, in hopes to conduct the round…a lot of times prior to actually conducting the round.”
  — Tova Noel (20:50)

• On Training Shortfalls:

  “The roster reflects all these trainings that we didn’t actually receive all the training because sometimes there was nobody to train us.”
  — Tova Noel (32:19)

• On Systemic Issues:

  “I just followed whatever I saw that was being done. I absolutely understand that… but you can’t possibly think that it’s okay to fill out certifications saying that you conducted rounds in the future… Is that something being lost in translation?”
  — OIG Inspector, pressing Noel (38:38)

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Timeline & Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:37 — Start of Tova Noel OIG interview; roll call, staff whereabouts on August 10, 2019
• 04:00–06:10 — Discussion of who relieved whom for food breaks; confusion about schedules and procedure
• 07:39 — Noel explains her lack of practical authority despite being ‘in charge’
• 10:00–12:00 — Noel denies receiving special instructions; cellmate assignment confusion
• 16:04 — Detailed explanation of counts vs. rounds and how they're documented
• 20:50 — Admission of pre-filling rounds/cell check logs
• 22:40+ — Admits rounds sometimes weren’t conducted despite being logged
• 29:35 — Reiteration and defense of pre-population practice; observed from colleagues, not formally taught
• 32:19 — Training deficiencies discussed; host/interviewers challenge Noel’s repeated “I don’t know” answers
• 38:38 — OIG pushes on the ethics of falsifying documentation; systemic problem debated

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Summary & Takeaways

• Systemic Problems, Not Just Personal Failures:
  Noel’s repeated confusion and the normalization of questionable documentation practices reveal a broader, longstanding culture of corner-cutting and poor training within the MCC — not unique to her shift.

• Lack of Oversight and Accountability:
  The post-mortem OIG questioning suggests the system enabled or ignored these failures, raising questions about institutional responsibility in Epstein’s death.

• Noel as a Product of Her Environment:
  Her accounts reinforce the sense that, while deeply flawed, she operated within the loose, poorly-supervised norms she inherited and observed, not as a lone rogue officer.

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Host’s Style and Tone:
Bobby Capucci brings a clinical, unsparing attention to procedural details and institutional rot while letting the interview clips reveal the reality—often absurd, always troubling. There are no punches pulled: the listener is left to chew over the stunning incongruence between what was supposed to happen and what actually did.

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All supporting documents and more detailed transcripts are available in the episode’s description for further reading.

Transcript

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Come join our sweat sesh on Tick tock. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right back in to the Tova Noel interview with the OIG inspectors. All right, and who is present with you in the shoe after Midnight from approximately 6:30 on August 10, 2019? Noelle, me and Thomas. Anyone else? Noelle? Noelle. Lieutenant. Redacted at around what time did she visit? I don't remember the time. Does around 4am sound right? Noel? I don't remember the time, to be honest. Question. Okay, was there another officer that you remember around like 5:30am that visited Noel? No. The officer upstairs, he left to go get food and come back. Question. So would that be 10 South? Noel? Yeah. Question. All right. And then when he leaves 10 south to come to the shoe, do you also have to allow him access into the shoe or is he able to get into the shoe by himself? Noel coming down from 10 South? Uh huh. Noel. Thomas relieved him and then he came down and went. Thomas relieved the person on Tensouth? Noel. Yeah. So Thomas wasn't assigned to the shoe. He was assigned to 10 South. Noel. He was assigned to the shoe. So can you just explain what you mean by relieved? You mean he relieved him temporarily while he got food? Noel. He called and said that the lieutenant said that he could go get his food. So can one of us relieve him to go get his food? So Thomas went relieved him and he came down and he went out to get his food. Okay, so you were the only person in the shoe at that point. Noel Downstairs, I guess. Question. And Thomas? Noel. As far as the time, I don't know. Question. Okay, so are there only two people that were in the shoe? Foy, do you want context of when that request from redacted to get coverage to get food? Because there is context there. Question. Sure. I mean Foy. All right, so I want you to talk about what you were doing before he asked you. Right? Noel. Okay. Foy, you remember what you were doing? Noel I remember what I was doing. But she gets cut off by Foy. This is a three event, There's a five event. And then Noel oh, like I counted with redacted upstairs at the time. And when I came back downstairs, he called and he said that the lieutenant said to relieve him to go get food. I didn't believe him. So I called the lieutenant's office and I said did you say for me to relieve Redacted to get food. But another lieutenant came on. So he said well I I don't know if the lieutenant before said that. So I said okay. And I hung the phone up and Thomas said I'll go relieve him so he could go get his food. Question okay. And I do apologize. You counted with him? Noel yeah. Question and you're talking about the individual in 10 South. Noel Yes. Question and then you came back to the shoe and then Thomas relieved him. Noel yes. Question Noel But I don't remember if it was at 3 or 5. I don't remember which one Redacted all right. And I do apologize. I just want to make sure I have this clear. So when you went up at either three or five and I'm assuming it was five, you helped him count and at that point when he said he wanted to go get food? Noel When I came back downstairs, he called Question oh, so not while you were doing the count? Noel no. Question so you left. Noel came back downstairs. Question he called and said I just spoke to the lieutenant. Noel he said the lieutenant said for you had to relieve me to get food. Question and then you said you verified that? Noel I called. Question the lieutenant. Noel yes. Question Was this both redacted both times. Was that who it was? Noel no, when I called Lt. Redacted answered and he said he didn't know. Question so it was lieutenant redacted so this would have been at like 5:30 then? Probably. Noel Probably. Question okay, if you look at the schedule, can you tell me what time redacted came on? Noel on here it says 8 to 4. Question Are you looking at 8:10, August 10th? Well yeah, but it was before that it was indiscernible. Oh, sorry. There's a little caveat there. So the Officer's times are 2 hours before. Would he have started at 6? But I believe he actually his would have been 6 to 2 as opposed to 84 like the roster. So it's confusing. They allowed the lieutenants to come in two hours earlier and end their shifts two earlier

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Visit your nearby Lowes. Noel huh Question But I do believe he arrived at 5:30. So this would have been probably. You said you said there were two different lieutenants you spoke to so I'm assuming one Noel cuts him off no. I spoke to Lieutenant Redacted asking did he say for me to relieve Thomas to get the food. So he said he didn't know. Maybe Lt. Redacted told him but but I didn't speak to her. Question sure. And what I'm I think that he started around 5:30. So he probably called around like 5:28 spoke with lieutenant and then you probably called shortly after 5:30. Does that sound like potentially it could have happened? Noel could have, yeah. Question okay so does around that 5:30 time frame right before you know you were going to feed the inmates, does that sound about right? Noel Right. Question okay, so the 5am Count that discernible. Noel Right. Question okay, so he is I'm sorry who was in 10 South? Noel redacted question it was redacted. And then who else visited the shoe where Epstein was housed between 12:00am and 6:30? Noel Lieutenant Question Are they the only two people that visited the shoe aside from you and Thomas? Noel yeah Question okay no one else? Noel no. Question okay. When you were in the shoe with Thomas was there a hierarchy then? Noel on the paper it says that I was number one Question and would that be I know you said a lot of time it's because you're new. You would ask other people for guidance. Is that because that was your quarterly post? Noel yeah. The post question and was Thomas in there as an overtime post? Noel yeah not his regular assignment. Noel Correct. So on paper you were in charge but in practice you are both the same. Noelle in practice I ask because I don't know. So even if I'm in charge I don't know everything because I'm new. So I asked the senior officer question okay do you remember any conversations you had with Thomas that night? Noel as far as just were you conversing while you were there, just the two of you? Noel I'm not She gets cut off. I'm not asking for what conversations at this point. I'm just saying. Were you talking to one another? Noelle. No, not really. Question. You guys didn't really communicate or talk? Noelle. No. Question okay. Do you remember any conversation with regard to Epstein at all? Noelle. No. Question alright, so if you. It's just the two of you, you said redacted and redacted. The only four people from that those periods when you started your shift at 12:00am to 6:30? Noel. Correct. Question. What was the purpose of redacted's visit? Noel. To conduct around. Question okay. And what is she required to do during a round? Noel. I don't know. Question. Are you aware if she was supposed to conduct a count with you during her rounds or. Noel. She's not supposed to conduct the count. But I don't know how she's supposed to conduct her rounds. Question so do you understand if her round is at a round of her staff members or is it also she's supposed to do anything with inmates when she does rounds? Noel. I don't know. Question. You don't know. Do you remember when she entered and exited the shoe? Who let her in and out? Noel I did. Question Both times. Both in and out? Noel. Yeah. Question okay. And when was that about when redacted departed the shoe. Who let him in and out? Noel. That I don't remember. Question Would it be Noel cuts him off. But it probably would have been me. Question. You since Thomas relieved him? Noel Right. Went upstairs? Noel. Yeah. Question I would think Thomas went up there. Then you probably would have. Noel cuts him off, let him out. Yeah. Question okay. And both with redacted and redacted, you verified that those doors were shut and sealed? Noel. Yeah. Question and no one else got in and out between those times? Noel. No. Question. And there were those two individuals authorized visitors and authorized visits within the shoe. Noel. Who? Lieutenant Redacted. Question Was there a presence in the shoe? Authorized? Noel yes. Question Was it justified and did you see them the entire time that they were actually in the shoe? Noel yes. Question Was there anything out of the ordinary? Noel. No. Question. Do any either of them have conversations about Epstein? Noel. No. Question. And you say redacted. Was the operations lieutenant on August 10th? Noelle yeah. Question did you have any conversations with her on the phone? Noelle. No. Question. That you recall? No. What about like when you guys would call in counts? Noel. I don't remember who took the count. But when I got call control to give the count, I don't remember if it was her that took the count. Question okay, so you don't recall any Other conversations when with redacted besides from when she visited at 4 to check in? Noel Correct. Question and she never provided any special instruction? Noel no question. About anything during that shift? Noel no question. She never told you that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? Noel no question. Didn't ask about Reyes or anything? Noel no Question or about a new cellmate being placed in? Noel no question all right. And we just briefly mentioned that who was lieutenant redacted? Noel the lieutenant that came on in the morning. Question okay. And he started, we believe around 5:30 based upon what we just talked about. Noel correct question okay. 5:30am on August 10th, during the conversation you said that you called lieutenant redacted. What all was spoken about during that call? Noel if I should relieve redacted to get food. If that's what he said. Question Any discussion about inmates? Noel no question. Any discussion about Epstein? Noel no question no he didn't provide any special instruction or ask about anything about your shift? Noel no question. About him coming on? Noel no question. Do you remember if the control center, R D or anyone else called the shoe on August 9th or 10th during your two shifts about Epstein's cellmate leaving? Noel I don't know if they did. They didn't speak to me. Question. You didn't speak with anybody? Noel no question. R D or anyone else? Noel no question. If an inmate is removed from SHU and released from McCarthy, how does the shoe find out? Noel I don't know. Question. You don't know? Noel no Question. Has that ever happened to you before? Noel. Where an inmate is gone? No question. When an inmate goes to court or something and then is released? Noel no. If that happens, like redacted, gives the phone to the senior officer because I don't know. But that never happened. Where like an inmate was released when I'm there. Question so from 4pm on August 9th, you don't recall that call coming in? Noel no. Or a discussion happening? Question Noel not to me. How about about Reyes not coming back? Noel not to me. No Question and you didn't have a conversation with anybody at all? Noel Nope. Question and you don't know if Control or R D or anybody spoke with anybody else? Noel I don't know. Even if they didn't discuss the details of it, you didn't overhear the conversation? Noel no question. So what's your understanding? If Reyes is released on August 9th from the SHU, Epstein's required to have a cellmate. What should have happened? Noel I don't know what should have happened. Because when I came in at 4. The cell was empty, so I don't know what should have happened. Epstein came back and went to his cell. I don't know where Reyes is or if he's coming back, so I don't know what should have happened. Question. Okay, so if an inmate is required to have a cellmate such as Epstein when the cellmate. Sorry, I don't know if I just misspoke. If Epstein was required to have a cellmate as Epstein was after his cellmate departs, which was Reyes, do you know if there's how long it should take for him to get replaced? Noel. I don't know. Question. You don't know that? Noel. No. Question. Do you know who the decision makers would be on that? Noel. I don't know. Question. Do you know if you were authorized to assign Epstein a cellmate? Noel. I don't know. Question. Again, no conversation at all? Noel. None. Question. He's gone. No. You don't remember him being removed from the roster list. So when you're doing your rounds and your accounts. Noel. No. Question. You know how many are supposed to be counting? Noel. No. All right, so we're going to wrap up right there. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.

[A]

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[B]

Visit your nearby Lowe's. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right back in to the Tova. Noel. Interview with the OIG inspectors. Question. All right, we're just going to talk a little bit about counts and rounds. According to you, what is a cell count? And you have it in front of you if you need to refer to the policy. But what is your understanding of a cell count or, sorry, an inmate count? Noel. You count every inmate to make sure that they're alive. Question. To make sure that they're alive and. And accounted for. Noel. Yes. Question. All right. And can you just explain the process? Noel? The first officer goes down and counts, and then the second officer goes down and Counts and then we confirm the numbers. Question. Okay. And prior to confirming the numbers, do you tell the other officer how many you counted? Noel. No. Question. Alright, so you get your number. Then another officer goes down, gets their number. Noel. And when they come back. Question. And is that tier by tier or do you she cuts them off. Yes. Tier by tier. Question. Tier by tier. Just one person stands outside while the other person goes downrange and counts the inmates? Noel. Yeah. Question. So do you have to like see the person moving? What do you need to do when you're doing the count? Noel. You need to see the prisoner move. Redacted quote Question do you have to like talk to them, make sure they're responsive or anything like that? Noel. Or you could see them breathing. Question. Just as long as you see some life. Okay so what are the requirements in the shoe on how often is account conducted for counts? Noel. Count is at four. I mean it's been a long time. I really don't remember But I think 4, 10, 12, 3 and 5. Question. Okay, so 4pm 10pm, 12am, 3am and 5am Noel. Yeah. Question and is this every day or is it Monday through Friday? Do you know? Noel. Every day. Question. Every day. And you're just making sure that they're alive? You don't actually have to speak to them? Noel. No you don't. Question. Okay. And what's the difference what's around? Noel. I mean the round you're walking down the tier, basically checking to see if they're okay, but you're not counting, you're just checking to make sure. So you're doing the same thing. You're just counting the inmates. Alright. So you're making sure that they're okay and they're alive. Noel. Yeah. Like you don't need a number. Question. But one CO goes down, checks and then does the other one or does there only need to be one? Noel. Well it's one question. So both don't need to actually do that. Noel. No. Question. All right, so just one CO goes down. Does the other CO have to remain at the door to make sure the CO is okay? Noelle. Yeah. Question. Okay, so is that the difference then Noelle. Between the counts and the rounds? Yeah. Question Only one CO is required. That's per your understanding of policy? Noel. Yeah. Question. Okay, and during the rounds, do you have to speak with the inmates? Noel. You don't have to question. No, but on Both instances both COs have to be present. You're just saying with rounds only one CO actually needs to go down. Noel. Go down range. Yeah. Question. You said the purpose is to make sure that they're okay and they're alive? Noel yes. Question and are they are the counts and the rounds both documented? Noel yeah. Question and do you have to sign documents when you conduct counts and rounds? Noel yeah. Question okay, now if you and another officer, like on the case of when you work 12am to 8am, if you and another officer are the only ones assigned to the shoe, are you both just responsible for documenting the round sheets and the count slips? So if you're the one documenting all the rounds for the 30 minute rounds is your documentation, does that also carry weight for the other person that's with you? Are you signing for both? Noel I don't think so because I just have my signature. Question so you would take responsibility for the cell count rather than saying that you're both responsible? Noel well the rounds and the counts have to be done with two people. Question Let me just show you so you know what I'm talking about. I'm just going to show you from August 9th and 10th, the cell counts and the rounds so that there's no misunderstanding. So this first one's going to be the 8, 9, 20, 19 for the 30 minute check sheet and the other one is going to be 8, 10, 20, 19. Can you just let me know if you see your handwriting and initials on these two documents? Noelle yes. Question okay, and I guess we'll first discuss August 9th. Where do you see it and from what time to what time? Noel from 4 to 11:30. Question and are you ever one of them? Noel yeah. Question okay, so every 30 minutes you have your initials and you wrote those. That's actually your initials on that one? Noel yeah. Question and what about on August 10, 2019? Noel yes. Question okay, so what I'm asking here is by placing those initials, is that now fall on you or if you're only two people in there, like on August 10th, are you basically signing for both people or do you think you're only signing for yourself? They're avowing what the round was conducted? Noel I don't know. Question okay. Noel I guess like you're trying to say, if the rounds have to be conducted with two people and then I sign, it would be I don't know. Question okay, but you did sign and certify that they were conducted? Noel yeah. Question okay, and what do you do with the rounds the sheets, how are those maintained? Noel well I usually fill it out like prior in hopes to conduct the round like when I work in the Shoe. I never actually done the round. Every 30 minutes, like when you go down to give out toilet paper, that's counted as a round. To pick up trays, it. It's counted as a round to give out food, that's counted as a round. But. And then you fill it out either after or before you're not sitting, like every 30 minutes, like filling it out. Question. Okay. And you said you did it a lot of times prior to actually conducting the round? Noel? Yeah. Question. All right. And with the rounds, do you call anybody with that information? Noel? No. Question. What's done with the sheet? Is it at the end of the shift something? Done with it? Are they logged into the BOP database at all? What happens with those sheets? Noel? I don't know. Because it's left on the table. I don't know what they do with them. Question. So as far as you know, you just fill it out and you leave it there? Noel. Yeah. Question. Okay. You don't ever provide it to anyone? Noel. No. Question. And you don't ever go into any BOP database and enter those rounds? Noelle? No. Question. Do you know if someone else does? Noelle? I don't know. You don't know. Okay. What about the counts? Do you call people after the counts? Noelle. Yes. Control. You call control? Noelle. Yeah. Question. And do you recall on August 9th or August 10th you called, did you call anyone with those numbers? Noelle. Yes. Okay. And do you remember which counts you called? Noel? I don't remember which. And you know you did some of them. You just don't remember specifically which ones? Noel? Which ones. Okay. And do you remember speaking with lieutenants when you were there or with regular officers assigned to the control center? Noel? I don't remember who I spoke to. You don't remember? Well, with the count slips, you said you just leave those round slips on the table when you're done. When you do the count slips, what do you do with those slips? Noelle. We did the same thing. We filled them out before. Question. Before you actually conduct the counts? Before you filled them out? Noel? Yeah. Question. So before you actually even getting the number, you fill out the number? Noel. Because we know the number. Question. Okay, so do you then call somebody with the number? Noel? Yeah. Question who do you call? Noel? Control. Question. Control. Okay. And you provide them with the number that you wrote on that document? Noel? Yes. Question. Sorry, we did this. My question was supposed to be what do you do with the physical pieces of paper? Noel? Stick it in the door. And then internal takes it. Question. Okay, so no one actually comes in to the shoe, you stick it in the door. Noel the outer door. Question so you open up the interior, the inner door, and then you go to the outer door. Noel and stick it in there. Question there's like a special slot for it. Noel Not a slot, it's just between the door. Question okay, Internal never comes in though. Noel they didn't that day. I don't know if they ever come in, but they didn't that day. Question okay, on August 9, 2019, you said you filled all that out. What rounds did you conduct during your shift on August 9, 2019? Noel well that's hard for me to tell because I didn't conduct it every 30 minutes. It was give out food, pick up the trays, give out toilet paper, go down. So, so those were the rounds that I conducted. Question so you were conducting a round as just doing something with an inmate? Noel yeah, because I actually physically walked. Question Every tier. All six? Noel yeah. Question Are there six tiers in the shoe? Noel yeah. Question okay, two floors, two levels? Noel yeah, yeah. Question so when you do these rounds, when you would go downrange and handle an inmate or give something to an inmate, you would also do all six? Well, yeah. Question alright, so about how often, let's ask it a different way. About how many of those didn't you do on August 9th? Noelle I don't know. I can't give a number of how much I didn't do. Question Are some of those that were documented, were they not done? Noel yeah. Question all right, so you didn't do some of them. You just don't know which ones? Noelle Right. Question all right, okay. And now Mr. Foy interjects Let me just say to help clarify the times that you wrote down. Noel okay, Foy Right. Foy when did you write the times down? Noel Before Foy all right, so when did around to take toilet paper do you did you change the time to reflect that particular round? Did you do anything with the paperwork to change the actual time? Noelle no. Question and why did you do that? Is it because of the requirement? Noel why did I fill she gets cut off. Why did you fill these ahead of time? Were you just trying to stay on top of what the actual requirement was to conduct a 30 minute round? Noel I mean, I don't know why I did it. I just always did it that way. Question did someone train you to do it that way? Noel I mean, I've seen it done that way before and three people that actually do it as they do it, it's been Done all three different ways. Question. Some do it before, some do it during and some do it after. Noel. Yeah. Question. And just this instance, you did it all before. Noel. Yes. Question. All right. And some, at least some of them. Would you say the majority not done or were done? Noel. On the 9th majority was done. Question. You believe the majority now I know we're doing estimates because you don't know exactly. You think like 51%. Noel. I don't know. Question. You don't know? Noel. No. Question. All right. But again, for the ones that you did do, you're not just going down the tier. Noel. No. Question. You're going down all six tiers. Noel. I'm doing all you are. Noelle. Yes. This is the under oath thing. We've got to make sure because the video is and all that kind of stuff. Noel. Yeah. Question. That's your understanding? Noelle. Yes. Question. All right. That you're actually checking every door. Noel. Yes. Question. And when you go give that one person toilet paper or whatever, you're actually looking at out all the different doors. Mr. Foy, can we take a break real quick because I need to take a break. Question. Absolutely.

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Visit your nearby Lowe's. All right folks, we're gonna wrap up right here. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're going to pick up where we left off with the toven. Noel. Interview with the OIG inspectors. Question. All right. That you're actually checking every door? Noel. Yeah. Question. And when you give that one person toilet paper or whatever, you're actually looking at all the different doors. Foy can we take a break real quick? Because I need to take a break. Alright. So they come back from the break and they dive right back in. Question. Alright. Is there anything that we wanted to revise before we continue? Foy. Yeah, I want her to go back. This was from earlier about the double door, how they operate. Question. Okay. Foy inaccuracies on that. Sure. Foy that we clarified. So let's start with that first. Noel the outer door control pops the outer door. I control the inner door. So the outer door can only be opened by control. Okay so we're talking about like popping. It was just. Your memory was foggy. Noel I don't remember a lot of stuff but yeah, the outer door you have to call control to pop the 27 door and we control the inner door. Question OK and then just while we're going back, it's something I was probably going to follow up on later but there's been a ton of questions of like you don't know question or answer Noel yeah. Question I just want to remind you you did go to Federal Law Enforcement Training center. Noel. Yeah. Where you were trained as a correctional officer and you also received this IF training which I think you said was like two weeks in house training. Noel yeah. Question Is that what it was as well as you received the annual training and all this stuff that we're talking about isn't like the real detailed stuff. This is like you know, conducting rounds and counts and the essential duties as a correctional officer. So I'm assuming you is it safe to assume that you've received this training, you know, during those trainings I know you didn't go to the shoe trainings, but not too far from when this happened, you were only on for a little over a year and you conducted all three of those trainings, correct? Noel I was only on for a little under a year. The training that I received in Georgia in specific to camps and not necessarily high rises and the in house training, the roster reflects all these trainings that we didn't actually receive all the training because sometimes there was nobody to train us. Question okay Noel so when I say I don't know, I don't know. Question yeah, no, it's just almost every question I feel like We've gone through 18 pages so far and so many of them are like I don't know Noel I really don't know. Question all right. It's just because you know people are going to say like, well you went to all these trainings, you should know at least some of this stuff. So I just wanted to try to get you to like think back on your training. Noel huh? Question and your duties and your responsibilities when I'm making these questions just so you can really like think do I really now know or is that, you know, did I know that these things should be done? Does that make sense? Noel Correct Question Can I say, just to clarify, I know you might not have received some of the official trainings. Some of this stuff you might learn along the way. Ms. Noel huh? Question from your daily duties? Noel Wright Question like it's repetitive. Some of the stuff that you do. So you might have known this based on the fact that you've done it on a daily basis. So if you say I don't know and you actually done it as part of your daily duties, it kind of contradicts each other. Ms. Noel I understand. Question and I just had a question. You mentioned the door. Was it at any point in time on the 9th, 10th, or was there a practice to ever leave the doors propped open in the shoe? Noel no Question all right, I think my last question, I just want to revisit it just to make sure that we're of the same understanding. So again, when you're pre populating all these rounds, correct? Noel Correct Question but you're saying you believe you did more than 50% of the rounds that were listed? Noel I can't give you a percentage because I don't know how to put a percentage to a round. But I can tell you that I conducted rounds as I went to go do something, but I can't give you a number. Question and I want to make sure that we understand too, if you're going down range to give some inmate like toilet paper or something that you're also at that time where you're saying you did around not just talking about that tier, but all six tiers. Noel yes, quite. Question all right, so you're going down to give somebody toilet paper and at that point he gets cut off by Noel because I'm giving toilet paper to everybody Question all right, so you're not just addressing one inmate. Noel. No question. You're saying when you're giving everybody toilet paper. Noel yes. Question so on August 9th, cut off by Noel When I'm giving food, I give everybody food. When I'm collecting trays, I'm collecting all the trays. I'm giving toilet paper, she's cut off. So aside from the times you're now given toilet paper and giving food and collecting trays, which are a handful of those times, granted. Are you doing any other rounds? Noel yeah. And if somebody calls, she gets cut off. On August 9th, we're talking about Noel on the 9th, if somebody calls and asks for something yeah, I conduct around question and that's kind of what I'm getting at. If you're handling one specific inmate because they called and asked for something. You're then also addressing the other five tiers. Noelle yeah. Question okay. Noelle because usually when one calls, everybody else hears and everybody wants something, so I just do it. Alright. So on August 9, you didn't conduct all the documented rounds? Noelle no. Question but you did do some of them. Noelle yeah. Question and you don't have a number? Noel no. Half or anything? No. Question okay. To this Foy interjects But I think the clear point is when she did it, it's not based on the times on the paper. Question okay. Foy Right. So that doesn't match the time she did it versus the time on the paper because that paper is done at the beginning of the shift with the time already selected. Oh, are you filling out the entire paper at the beginning of the shift? Noelle yeah. Oh, so you're not doing it every 30 minutes, just pre populating before you do the round? Foy Right. Noelle no question. You're going at the very beginning of the shift, filling everything out. Yes sir. So that when did you fill out the August 9th round sheet? Noel like how the numbers are like the round sheets before, like the times. So I just fill it out because that's what I've seen being done. Like it's filled out before or sometimes at the end after. So I fill it out all before. Question okay, so you pre populated that entire thing at the very beginning of your shift? Noelle yeah. Question and then you just conducted the rounds as needed? Noelle yes. Question alright. And you've seen people do this? Noelle yeah. Who else have you seen do that? Noel I mean, I don't have a specific name, but I've seen it done. Question did anyone ever tell you to do that? Noel this is actually, I think the first time I've ever done the round sheets because I've never actually done the round sheets in the shoe, but those two days were the days that I've done the round sheets in the shoe. Question so if this was your first time doing a round sheet, did someone instruct you on how to do it? Noel no, because I just followed what I seen. But I've worked with people before that were filling it out and that's how it's been done. Question and did you have discussions with them? Noel no, I never had a discussion about it. Question so you just observed people doing this? Noel yes. Question but no one ever told you to do that? Noel no. Question and did you know that it was wrong to do that? Noel no. Question you didn't know that it was wrong to pre populate the rounds you conducted when you weren't conducting those rounds. NOEL no, I mean if I'm putting the time on there saying that I conducted the round at this time and I didn't conduct the round at this time, that's wrong. But I didn't think it was wrong to just fill it all out because or after because that's how they do it. QUESTION so that's a contradicting statement. You know that it's not right to conduct a round at the time that you conducted it, but you didn't know that it was wrong to indiscernible. Foy she knows that now, but this is the way it was done. FOY she followed but like when you look at the policy and now that we're here and we've had discussions, okay, that's not how it's supposed to work. QUESTION but at the time that you're filling this out on August 9th, at the beginning of your shift, saying that you conducted these rounds at a time that they weren't conducted yet, you had to know that it wasn't. Maybe you saw people doing the wrong thing, but you couldn't have possibly thought that that was correct. NOELLE well, I she gets cut off because you're falsely certifying that rounds are completed when you didn't. There's times even that they're events in the future. NOELLE I understand, but I didn't know that. I just followed whatever I saw that was being done. I absolutely understand that. Defense that you said other people have done this and you're following their guidance, but you can't possibly think that it's okay to fill out certifications saying that you conducted rounds in the future that haven't even taken place and that you've actually didn't do at the same time. Is that something being lost in translation? Do you follow what I'm asking you? Did you think it's okay to sign on the round sheet that you conducted a time conducted a round? NOEL but it's the same thing as the end. Like if I do it all at the end at the times that I'm putting I'm not do going to remember all these times specifically QUESTION Absolutely. I would also argue that anytime you're falsifying a record, you always know that that's wrong. NOEL so, but I mean question so I understand what you're saying that other people do it and that's why I want to get into who else is doing this? Who trained you on this? How do you know that this was the way that things are done. So that's where my question of who talked to you about it? You said no one actually spoke to you about this? Noel Cuts them off no, I just seen people do it. Question Observe people So who did you Noel Cuts him off? Because I never had he picks up observe do that. Noel I never had a conversation with anyone about filling out the round sheets. Question Right. So if that's going to be the argument that you're doing it based upon your training and experience, I need to know more about this training and experience. Who is it that you experience? Do this in the past? Noel People that I've worked with. Question so I'd like to think about all right. I know this because I saw that person do it. Who? Noel Redacted Question so you've witnessed redacted or overpopulate or at the end of the shift? Noel I don't remember exactly but it's done either or the way all right, so you saw redacted and who else? Noel Redacted Question Redacted Is that the SOS Noel no Question no A different redacted what is redacted A gentleman's name. Noelle yes what's the person's first name? Noel I don't know the first name who worked in the shoe? Noel yes. You mentioned redacted before. Is it redacted? Noel yes. Okay, say that again. Noel Redacted it's like indiscernible. Foy It's a first or last name question. Is it the first or last name? Noel Redacted Foy Redacted Noel Yes Foy Redacted Noel Huh? Question Anyone else aside from those three people? Noel I never seen redacted Question alright, so in the recollections of the three people that you named, what did you observe them do? Miss Noel Fill it out after or fill it out before Question and was that on numerous occasions? Noel yes. All right, so we're gonna wrap up right here and in the next episode we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.