← The Epstein Chronicles
The Epstein Chronicles
Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Part 17-19) (5/19/26)
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During the Office of Inspector General investigation into the death of Jeffrey Epstein at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in August 2019, correctional officer Tova Noel gave an interview describing how the morning unfolded when Epstein was...
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Visit your nearby Lowes Foreign. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Tovenol interview with the OIG inspectors. The recorder is back on. It's currently 1:46pm and this is Senior special Agent Redacted. I'm just reminding you, Ms. Noel, we are under oath and. And this is a voluntary interview. Thank you again for your cooperation. So when we took a break, is there anything that you wanted to add from the last thing? We were talking about the difference between the 4, the 10 and the 12 and the different numbers. Noel, on the plus one, I don't know where the one came from. I absolutely counted at 10. I don't know why is there a plus one? And then when the number changed, like there's something that sometimes it's called like a ghost count. I don't know. I don't remember if that's what happened. So whereas control will call you and say put as a ghost count. So the inmate is not physically there, but they know where the inmate is because they didn't redo the count sheet. So that's the only thing I can think of. The ghost count question. I could think it may be a ghost count for the plus one, but if you're writing the numbers and. And it's supposed to be. I mean when you're. She gets cut off. I'm talking about for 73 and then how it changed to 72. Noel says, as far as the plus one. I don't know about the plus one. I'm talking about the 73. Question. When you do account that you list on it, isn't it the physical inmates that are there? Noel. Yeah. Question. You can't ever say that. You can't list somebody that is not on there, correct? Noel. Correct. Question. Right. So you see? Noel. No, but what I'm saying, okay, like, like I said, I really don't remember. But let's say if I counted 72 and they said ghost count. John. And I put 73. As far as the plus one, I don't know. And I put 73 because they know where that inmate is. And then after, for the next count, they fix the roster because that's why it's called a ghost count, because they didn't move to where the person is supposed to be and then they fix it on the next one. That could have been how the count went down in 72. But as far as the plus one, I don't know where the plus one went. Question. All right, so who was in the shoe at 10pm when you conduct this count? Noel. Me and redacted. Question. Just the two of you? Noel. Yeah. Question. He's sleeping. Noel. Yeah. Question. What conversation did you have with anybody about the count? Noel. That's what I'm saying. I don't recall. That's the only thing that could have happened, but I don't recall. Question. But if they told you to do that at 10:00pm, as you just noticed, at 12:00am the count. That's when they catch that the counts are wrong. Noel. Right. Question. So if I told you that he gets cut off by Noel. Well, not at the time. At the 12 time. I'm saying, like when it changed from. I'm not looking at that time, but when it changed from 72 to the 72 at the time. Question. Right. So no inmate was removed from the shoe after 10pm Noelle. No question. There's only 72 inmates in the shoe at 10pm Noel. I don't. As far as the numbers go, I don't remember accurately the numbers, but. But no inmates moved. Question. Right? Noel. There was no movement. Question. And that's just where we're trying to get to this. If you're swearing up and down, you know, under oath. I conducted this count. Noel. I did. Question. But there's only 72 people there at 12:00am that's when the lieutenant catches. Hey, guys, there's only 72 people in there. You've got to redo this count and give me a new count slip. And when did this happen? Foy. Let me just say Something here. It says that at 10. I'm looking at the 10 that it was 73 on the outside. Correct. Foy. Right. So the control and her slip matches Question Right. So she calls in the number. Foy. Right. Question so she's calling in because somewhere before 10pm an inmate wasn't removed from the list. Foy. Right. Question all Although they were not present in the shoe. So if they're doing account that's where it's supposed to say that's the actual number that's in here. Foy Right. Question and at that point control would say we have 73. Where's the problem here? But she called in 73. Foy right question or yeah. Instead of 72. Question. So you're right. The master list is off but so is the counselip. The count slip is provided first question. But they're not off. Right. Technically at 10 the master list is that front page. And this is asked by the union rep. Question the master list is wrong. Union rep it said 73. Redacted. Correct. Union Rep. So there may be something, you know, that we don't. Question. Oh, we've already talked to hundreds of people about this. Union rep I'm sure. Question so that's where. I mean, not hundreds, but you know what I mean. Union rep A few people. Question A lot of people. So this is where we're just asking the only person that was there that was actually, you know, the other guy was sleeping, there's only one person physically present in there and that was you, Ms. Noel. Noel. Yeah Question. So. So that's why we're asking you. Everyone else, clear as day says well, it shows. It's just proof that that's how the count wasn't conducted. That's what everybody else says all the way up to the highest levels. So that's why if you're saying that the count was conducted, you're just saying Noel, I did the count Question. You just counted wrong. Noel I did do the count question by the union rep and I'm asking this because I think if we're confused Ms. Noel is might be confused. Correct me if I'm wrong. Well, right. Like because I didn't even. She gets cut off by the union rep if the employee. Let's use a simple number for the sake of it, right? I'm an employee. I count four living breathing bodies on unit A and then I call you who is located eight floors downstairs and I say I have four bodies on unit A and you say to me that's a good count. Right? That's what these documents imply took place because the front page is prepared by a completely different person in a completely different area. Redacted. Exactly. So what these documents actually imply is that the institution count showed that there were 73 people in there. There were only 72 people in there. So what they imply is that the count wasn't conducted because there were only 72 people in there. And it was just based on the number that that should have been based upon the system. The system showed there were 73, so they wrote 73 on the slip. That's what the documentation implies. Union Rep. I get that. Question however, there were only 72 people in there. Union Rep. Now I understand what you're saying. Question so that's why I'm asking. It's hard for me to get past this question if you're saying, Yes, I counted 73 when there are only 72 bodies in there. Noel. No, I absolutely counted. As far as the number, like I said in a remembering how much bodies I counted, but I counted. Question. So you counted. You just didn't, you didn't maybe have the numbers up? Noel. Right. Or it was she's cut off. And that's why I wanted to make sure the difference between a round and a count. Noel. No, I counted. Question. You, you counted. But. Noel. And the reason why that always stood out to me because I remember he was on a triple and he said he was tired and I counted. So just give me a little more information on what you're just saying, you know you counted. But what? Noelle. No, I'm saying I know I absolutely counted. And that always stood out to me because I remember he was on a triple and he was tired. Sure. Noel. And I counted by myself, which I'm not supposed to do. So I remember that. But as far as the numbers go, I don't remember this because I didn't even remember something about a plus one until I seen the count slip. Like I don't recall nothing about a plus one. Question Right. Noel. So as far as the numbers, I'm not sure, but as far as counting, I absolutely counted. Are you sure you counted 73? Noel that's what I'm saying. As far as the numbers go, I don't remember, but I counted. Question. Let's see. You counted what? So, I mean, what did you do with the numbers that you counted? Noel. What I'm saying is the count could have been off, but I'm just letting you know that I actually did count as far as the actual numbers. That's where the discrepancy comes in question so did you count and then look at the system what showed was in there and you just decided to put what the system showed. Noel Because I don't know how to look for that. Question. You don't even know how to find Noel cuts them off look for the count in the system. No Question So where would you if you're pre populating things, where would you get the numbers from in order? Noel Cuts them off when you come in, the person that you're leaving will be like I got 72 or I got 75. Question so someone who you relieved would have told you that there were 73. Noel. Correct. Question all right. And do you know who would have told you that there was 73? Noel. I don't know. Question Would it have been redacted before he fell asleep? Noel. I don't remember. Question alright, so again, just help me try to understand if there's only 72 people in there how you wrote 73 if you counted Noel Again, that's what I'm saying. I could have miscounted. I don't remember what happened as far as the actual number of the count I can only just tell you that I counted as far as numbers go, I don't remember. Question Right. So you counted each tier. Noel. Yeah. Question and then you added each of those counts up? Noel. Yes, I counted each tier. I don't know if I added them up but usually when I'm counting that's what I do. I I write it down K tier with the number L tier I put the number and I add them up. Question okay. Noel. But if I miscounted, remember I counted by myself. So if I miscounted I would have called control and I would have said 73. They would have been like no, your count is wrong. Question it's weird that your miscount just happened to show what the system said. That was what the system thought was in there.
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See Lowes.com for details visit your nearby Lowes. That's where I'm having difficulty because it's like the system says 73. So if you miscounted 73. And the system says 73, but there's only 72. How are you saying you actually counted? Noel. But they're at 10. It's 73 on here and it's 73 on here. Question. Correct. Because that's the institution counted off. Noel. So but I'm confused because at 10 it says 73. Foy cuts in. But they're saying this is wrong. This paper is wrong, Redacted. And it was caught at midnight. Noel. Okay, but this, this is. Well, then, I don't know. I don't know. Question. Do we want to continue this or keep going? Question oh, keep going. Question all right, so prior to 6:33am on August 10, 2019, when was the last time that you conducted a round within the shu? Now we're talking about a round. Noel. I don't remember the time, but I didn't conduct no round between 12 and the 12 to 8 shift. Question. So this what we're talking about, what you're calling a count that you're saying, would then that the last time be that you conducted either a round or a count? Noel After 10 questions, when we're discussing at the 10, would you have done something between then and 12? Noel. I don't remember. This is the last that I remember with the count at 10. So the last one that you recall is the one that we're discussing on the 10pm count. Noelle. Yes. Okay, so probably around 10 would have been the last. Noel. You can say that. What time does the count slip show? Noel. The Count slip shows 10. On here it says 10:30pm Question. 10:30pm Noel. Huh? Question do you. No, no, no. That's the institutional count. Noel. On the count slip it says 10pm it's always going to say that. Like, even if, like on the count slip, if I counted a 10, 15, it's still going to say 10 because it's the 10 o' clock count redacted. So this one I just want you to try to kind of. Because this would have been if you actually conducted the count and you actually looked at the people, this would have been correct. And the last time you saw Epstein correct. Noel. Correct. Question all right, so I just want you to consider that with all that surrounding this, you've got to kind of in your mind think, when's the last time that I saw him? Noel. Huh? Question Is this the last time that you can remember seeing him? Noel. Yes. All right, so we're going to wrap up right here and in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're going to dive right back in to the Tova Noel. Interview with the OIG Inspector. Question. So do you remember if that would have been at 10? A little after. A little bit before. And again, this is the last time you saw this big guy who's caused your life to flip upside down. Noel. But I can't. That's what I'm saying. You just gotta ballpark it. Noel. It's somewhere around 10. Question. So you just always write the time of the count? No. Well yeah. With the counts. Even if. Because remember on the unit you you're waiting to count. So let's say you fill out the ten o' clock slip. But let's say we didn't actually go down range until 10:30. You don't actually put 10:30. It's a 10:00 clock count. So you're always going to say 10:00 clock question okay? Noel. So that's what I'm saying. Just ballpark it. Question. So approximately 10pm Noel. Yeah. Or after 10. Question. Okay, so on the round, does that also say 10pm? I mean I know you said you populated that one, but what does that one say? And that's for August 9th. You already said August 10th. None of the rounds were conducted on August 9th. I guess around the 10. You know that nothing after 10 was actually conducted on the round sheet. Noel. It has after 10 on here. Okay. So those ones, those ones from then on, you know those weren't conducted. Noel Wright Remember? I didn't fill this out. Question. You've pre populated it. Right? So I want to make sure we know that you said that some of those were conducted. Noel. Right. Question. You don't remember which ones you did? Noel. Right. Question. But I just know that those are the ones that weren't conducted after 10pm Noel. Right. Question okay. All right. So that last. You're saying the last round and the count were on and one and the same. And was that an authorized practice? Is a round an account? If you're doing a 10pm count, does that also what can you document on the round sheet as something you did at 10pm? Noelle. Yes. Question. Okay, so they can overlap for that. Noelle. Yes. Question. Were any supervisors present for any cell counts or rounds in the shoe on either August 9th or 10th, 2019? Noel. No. Question. Is there a requirement or was there at at that time that a Supervisor Every supervisor, at least one per shift should have conducted a round or account with you guys in the shoe not of you staff members, but the inmates. Noel you're saying if the supervisor should have she gets cut off. Should a supervisor, you know, like a lieutenant observed or participated in a count or a round of the inmates during their shift? At least one do you know of that? Noel I think so. Question. You think that they're supposed to do that? Noel yeah. Question and during your time in the shu, did a lieutenant ever participate or observe a count or around while you were in the shoe? Noelle Redacted Question Redacted did. Noel Redacted did because she went down on the tears but on the midnight to 8 lieutenant redacted didn't walk the tears Question okay, so when redacted did on August 9th she actually walked the tears and checked out the inmates? Noel she did. Question she did. Okay and when around would that have been? Do you remember? Noel I don't remember the time. Question did she do it by herself or or did she go with you guys while you were conducting around her account? Noel no, she didn't do anything with us. Question so she did it by herself? Noel Correct. Question she walked up and down each of the six tiers. Noel she went down the tiers. Question do you know if that is a requirement that a lieutenant does that in the shoe? Noel I don't know. Question have you ever observed Anyone prior to August 9 redacted doing that? Noel observe a lieutenant going down the tier. Question either do it themselves, the lieutenant do the round themselves or watch the staff members do it? Noel oh no, they never no, they never watched us do it. Question Never watched, never observed? Noel no Question did they ever conduct it with you? Noel no Question but they would occasionally do it themselves. Noel Redacted make the lieutenants la make around yeah Question so not just pop into the shoe but redacted actually go up and down and the well yeah some not all question Some all right, and that's what I'm asking Do you know if it's a requirement? Noel Cuts them off that I don't know. Question so you don't know what the policy is? Noel I don't know that the lieutenant she gets cut off rule or what they're supposed to or not do? Noel what's supposed to do? Question all right, but that didn't happen did that happen more often than not when they actually doing around with the inmates lieutenants Noel if it happened that they walked the tears Question correct. Noel Some of Them do not all. Question which ones would do it? Noel. Lt. Redacted was the shoe. Lt. So he walks the tears all the time. Question okay. Noel. And then the other lieutenants that's on when they come down, they sign the round sheets. Question but do they actually do the rounds themselves or they just sign your sheet and check in with you? Noel they don't do it all the time. They sign the sheet and they check in with me and they'll say, like is there anything going on? But they don't get physically or actually walk it all the time. Question okay, so it's occasionally. Noel yeah. Question all right. But okay. Noel. I don't know if it's a requirement. Question all right, you're saying you don't recall the 4pm you may have you might not have. Noel I don't recall. Question you just don't recall. All right, so 12:00am 3:00am 5:00am we don't need to go into these specific things. You said none of them were conducted. They were false. You both signed them and submitted them, correct? Noel. Correct. Question and you knew that you and you knew that you had to do the count? Noel yes. Question what conversation did you have with Thomas about doing that? Noel we didn't have a conversation. He was exhausted and he was sleeping. Question Thomas. Noel. Yes. So at 12am until because you said you filled them all out at about 12. Noel yeah. Question and you didn't have a conversation about filling them out at 12? Noel no, because we do that all the time. Like when he came in, we filled them out and then I think when the phone rang he had the conversation. And then there was another time when I was looking for the counselip he had it and I couldn't find it so I had to like wake him up and resign. The count slip. Question now can you walk me through that? So he gets a call. You already filled out the count slip. Was one submitted, you put it through the door and internal came and got it. Noel. Yeah. Question and that's when they called him back. Noel. And he spoke to whoever and then he wrote on the count slip and we filled it out and I put it back through the door. Question for the corrected one that said 73. Then you made it 72. Noel I don't remember but I know I filled out a new one. Question at 12am Noel. Yeah. Question and did you have to at that time fill out a new 3am and 5am Noel yeah. Because I couldn't find the count slips that he had and I filled it out And I woke him up and he filled it. I remember that. Question so this was later. So he gets a call, he falls asleep and and then later you have to wake him up to resign. Noel no, he gets the call, he does it, then he falls asleep. When he gets a call to change whatever, we change it and then he falls asleep. Question so you only change the 12am he falls asleep and then you have to wake him up to change the 3:00am and the 5:00am? Noelle yeah. Question okay. And you just never talked about that or what you were doing? NOELLE no, we didn't talk about it, but. Because that's just common practice. Noel. To fill out the count slips before, to pre populate count slips. You're supposed to count inmates to make sure that they're there and write the number of what you counted. Noelle yes. QUESTION Common practice is you just fill that out first. And you said that you don't have access to that or what the count number is supposed to be? NOEL I never said I don't have access to I don't know how to I don't know if I have access. I don't know how to find what it's supposed to be. Question so how do you get the number that you write on the slip? Noel the number that I wrote on the slip, the officer gave it to me. Question so whoever you replace, they tell you what the number is to write? Question you pre populated that number, is that correct? Noel Correct. And you fill it out. Even on a regular housing unit, I fill it all out. And when I count, because even if it's wrong, you can just rewrite it. Question right? Noel because even if I come in and you say it's 72, I fill it out and I put 72 on all of them, I know nobody. There is no movement between 12 and 8. And even if I did and I put 72 and I counted and it's wrong, I could just change it. So that's the way I've always done it. Does that sound weird to you or just me? NOELLE what? Question that that's the way it's done, that you pre populated all these numbers and then you just change them later if they end up being off? NOELLE no, because they're usually not off. Um. NOEL and then like if I'm working a unit, if I work that unit and I did a double there, I counted. So I know that's what it is. So it doesn't sound crazy, but that I fill it out. Question well in this instance it does because your account was wrong. The one you said that you counted? No. Well okay, but that's the case. But I'm saying like it's not. If I worked a double on 11 north and I've been there the shift before and the shift after and I filled it out, I know there's no movement. So no, it's not crazy that I filled it out. Question. Right. So had you worked with Thomas prior to to this instance? Noel. Never. Question. You never did? Noel. No. Question. And there was no conversation with them about these not doing the counts or pre populating these count slips? Noel. No. About pre populating the count slips. He came in, he filled it out and I signed. Wasn't a conversation about that. When it was time to do the when it was time to conduct the count I tried to wake him and he was really tired. He was like I'm tired and I didn't we didn't conduct the count. Question. All right. And that was that. What time? 12. Noel. I don't remember the time. Question. What count would have been for that? You tried to wake him up then he said he was tired. Noel. I don't know. Question. You don't know? Noel. No. Question. Would it have been the 12th? Because you're already. Noel cuts him off. It could have been the 12. It could have been three. I don't know. Question. Alright. Noel. He was tired. Question. So that was the one. Conversation. Noel cuts him off Because I counted upstairs. Like why would I go upstairs and count a unit and leave my unit? So I woke him up, he was tired. So I went upstairs and I counted with redacted question. And what time was that at? Noel? Three and five. Did the three and the five. Noelle. Yeah. You just didn't do the one in your unit. Noelle. Right. I'm trying to reconcile the fact that you never worked with Thomas before. You didn't have any conversations with him about it? Noelle. No, that's why I'm saying it sounds like it must be just common practice. Noelle. Yes. You just don't conduct counts. You just fill them out and you fill out the forms. Noel. We didn't have a conversation about filling it out. No. Because that's common in there. Alright. So it's very common. Is it very common from like 12 to 5? Count those three not to conduct the counts and just write them. Noel. No Question. No. It's not common. Or is it common? Noel. You're saying if it's not common to conduct the count or if it's common to indiscernible it is it common not to conduct the counts as at night or the early morning hours? Noel I don't know because that's my first time ever not doing it. So I don't know if it's common not to conduct the count, but if it's common to fill it out before Foy, you need to make that more clear. Did you ever work midnight to 8am to have an experience to say what happens? Noel no, not in the shoe. QUESTION so you've never worked midnight to 8 prior to this instance? Noel not in the shoe. Okay, the other times you were in the shoe, was it common to fill out count slips that weren't conducted? Noel in the other times that I've worked in the shoe, we fill, she gets cut off. So you're saying you've never worked in the shoe and we got the schedule in front of you if you want to take a look to just help refresh your memory. When you were in the shoe, was it common to fill out count slips that weren't conducted? Noel Count slips. We fill them out and the counts were done the rounds. It was common to fill them out and the rounds weren't all conducted. QUESTION so you're saying it's common to fill them out ahead of time, but it's not common not to conduct the rounds? Noel the counts Correct. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with the Toveno well interview with the OIG inspectors. Question so you're saying it's common to fill them out ahead of time, but it's not common not to conduct the counts? NOEL the counts. Correct. QUESTION okay, how often were they when you worked in the shoe, how often were the counts not conducted? Noel they were done. QUESTION they were always done when you were in there before. Noel yes. QUESTION and this is again one of those things. If we go back to the video from the days prior, because we had to get the video from these days, if we review that, are we going to is it going to show you conducting the counts? Noel yeah, I don't have to conduct the count because if I'm working with two or more people, they could have did the count. So it doesn't necessarily have to be. You're going to See me on the video. But you will see the counts being done if you get what I'm saying. Question. No, I understand what you're saying, Noel. If three of us are working, those two could have did it. It doesn't have to be me. Redacted. So when you were in the shoe, if you didn't do it, did the two other people always do it? Noel. Yeah. Question. All right. Were you ever on count slips, your assigned count slips that you personally didn't conduct? Noelle. No. Question. So you never signed. He gets cut off by Noel. If I ever signed the count slips. But that the night before the round sheet I did. I'm sorry, what was that? Noel. The round sheets. I did the count slips. No, question. The round sheets. You did what? Noelle. On the 9th, when I filled out the entire count slips. I didn't conduct every single round. You didn't conduct every single round? Noelle. No. So what about on previous incidents? We can switch over to the rounds. That's fine. In previous instances when you worked in the shoe, were the rounds conducted as displayed on the count sheets? No. Question. But the counts, you're saying they were always conducted when you worked in the shoe? Yes. So this was just a rare instance? Noel. It wasn't rare. It was because he was exhausted and he was tired and he didn't want to count, so we didn't count. Question. But then you also say redacted at 10pm Also was exhausted. Noel. Yes. And yes, I know because I did it and I wasn't supposed to do it. That's why I didn't continue to do it. Because I'm really not supposed to count to go downrange by myself, so I didn't continue to do it. Question. You didn't continue to do what? Noel. The count by myself. Question. All right. But you did the entire account at 10pm? Noel. Yes. Question. Were there other instances that you worked in the shoe where other people were too tired to conduct their rounds? Noel. No, because I usually. She gets cut off or the counts, not rounds. Counts. Noel. Because I usually come in on the shift prior. I don't work that, so I don't know what goes on. Because there's the tire time question. Right? Noel. So I usually come in before that so I don't have to deal with that. Question. All right. But it was just he gets cut off by Noel. It was just one day. Question. It's the one day no conversations were had. You try to wake him up? He didn't wake up. So you just didn't do Them. And then you didn't even have to say like, hey, man, we need to do these things. Or like there was just an unspoken thing that he was tired so you weren't just going to do them. Noel say that again. Question. I'm just trying to, like, it sounds like it would be common practice to do this if there's no conversation that were had. Usually it would be like, hey, if this is the first time I, I'm not going to do something. I would say like, hey, is it cool that we're not doing this? Or some kind of conversation Unless it was something that you had learned or experienced in the past that, like, we don't do counts at this time. Noel. But I had never worked a shoe at that time. Foy, this is calling for you to explain your interaction with Thomas as it relates to the count in particular. Right. Redacted. Correct. Foy. He is, he's asleep. What's the interaction? What did you say? What did he, what did he say? Did you ask one time? Did you ask multiple times? Did he affirmatively say no or did he just continue to sleep? That's the level of detail they're asking for. Question. Yeah, we're asking you to explain all of your interactions with Thomas with regard to the counts. Noel. Well, when it was time to count, because I remember I'm going upstairs to count, so. So I wake him up to count. And he was like, I'm tired. He was like, we have the count slip. I'm tired. He went back to sleep. When the lieutenant came, I woke him up because the lieutenant was coming. He fell back asleep in front of the lieutenant. She said, hey, you need to wake up. He couldn't stay awake. I went upstairs and I counted. Foy, go back to the lieutenant. Explain that in more detail. There's details that you're leaving out of the interaction between Thomas and the lieutenant with respect to him sleeping. Noel. Oh, I woke him up. The lieutenant came, she came, she found the round sheet. He fell back asleep in front of her. She said, hey, you need to wake up. She had papers and she hit him. She says, you need to wake up Foy. That's what I'm talking about. Noel. She hit him with a stack of papers. So saying that to say, like, everybody knows, like, because we're understaffed and overworked. So let's say if I was to tell on Thomas, that's who I would have to told it to. She was there and she saw it. Question. So she knew. So you didn't go as Far as, like if you were going to report someone sleeping on duty, you didn't need to report it because she saw it with her own eyes. Noel. Exactly. Question and he was literally fell asleep in front of her? Noel. In front of her, yeah. Question how long was she there? Noel. Maybe like 5 minutes, 10 minutes. Question and that little brief interaction, he actually went to sleep in front of her? Noel. Yeah. Question okay, so no discussions with Thomas. Just when you would wake him up, he just said that he was tired. Noel. Yes. Question. Did you try to wake him up for each count? Noel. I tried to wake him up for the 12 and 3. I don't remember if I tried to wake him up for the five because by that time he went upstairs. I remember he went upstairs to relieve redacted and I don't remember what happened between there and as far as waking him up. Question. All right. And as far as the inaccuracy of the one count specifically, now we're talking about 12am that it was actually it's off. He got a call. But he didn't talk to you about what was said on the other line? Noel. No, he said we gotta change the count slip and he wrote it and he changed it and he and I signed. Question all right. Noel. But he didn't say, like, oh, the lieutenant, this happened or that happened? No. Question. All right. And have you ever experienced previous instances where the count was off from when it was called in? Like if you give the number and they say, no, that's not right? Noel. Yes. Question. And what happened in those instances? Noel? You recount. Question. You actually did a recount? Noel. I on well, not in the shoe and other units. Question. In other units, though. But do you know that that's what is supposed to be done if you call in a wrong number, you're supposed to do a recount. Noel. Right, but I don't think that was the case with that. Like they called in and gave okay, that was the case where, like if I counted wrong and then they'll say, no, it's wrong and then I recount and I get the right number. But in this case, they gave them the number because of whatever I guess they knew where the inmate was or was supposed to be or wasn't moved. That's what I'm saying. I don't know what happened between 73 and 72. But when he changed the number, he said the lieutenant said, so I just signed it. Question but he didn't tell you? The lieutenant said to a new account. Noel. No. Question. He Never informed you of that? Noel no Question okay so you didn't really get into detail okay about what he said? Noel no Question okay but do you believe at 12am a new slip was created just not that one that's not attached to that the one that actually says 72? Noel Indiscernible is that at 12? At 12 here it says 73. Question correct. But that was actually the top of the page says 72 and I thought that's the one that you said they made you recreate a account slip. Noel Right. Question and that's not. You don't see that new count slip on there? Correct. All right and I know you did they have the conversation with Thomas because at 12am he called the count number in and they said he was wrong. Is that when he had the conversation with the lieutenant? Noel no the phone rang. Question all right, so who called the count in at 12am Noel me. Question and did you call also the call at 3am and 5am in Noel yes Question all right and obviously you called in without actually conducting the counts, correct? Noel yes Question all right, now it sounds like your attorney has and you have had this conversation, but what was the reason you didn't conduct the count? Question I didn't conduct the count in my area because he was tired and we're supposed to do them together. So I just didn't do them. Question okay, so would you have done them if he was awake? Noel yeah because I did them upstairs. Question okay, and you're saying that you never worked the night shift before but all the other counts you have conducted that you've documented from previous Noel yeah. Question Documented. You're saying you may have worked with three other people and two of them may have done the counts when you've been present in the shoe or all the counts have been conducted? Noelle yes Question okay. And do you know of any other cos or employees that have falsified count slips? Noelle Count no Question no. So you don't know any other I know that you said you pre populated them in a sense but like as far as he's cut off by Noel as far as other units. Question not conducting the counts and actually writing a number then a count do you know? Noel oh no. Question so all counts that have been submitted to this point when you're in the shoe, someone conducted them. Question Noel Yes Question and you said you never actually had a conversation with anyone about counts and how they're documented you just observed as well like on the round sheets? Noel as far as having conversations. Question. Did anyone train you on how to write counsellips? Noelle? No. Question. No. So you just got it from watching other people fill them out? That's how you learned Noel. Yeah. Because it's just your name and the number of the count. Question. Sure. Noel. Huh? Question. Okay. Do you want to take a break now, Foy? Yeah. Alright, so we're gonna wrap up right here as well. And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.